Going up to a 6" suction pipe will somewhat increase the amount of power you get, but probably not for the reasons you think. A larger volume of water below will not inherently pull harder, just like a larger penstock on your hydro won't provide more pressure within the bounds of fluid friction. The reason going up to a 6" draft tube (and tapered tubes in commercial installations of the same type) will increase power is because the water will slow down in order to flow through a larger cross sectional area pipe. To slow down water requires a pressure difference which will pull harder on the backside of the turbine. It's analogous to how with a pelton turbine you want the water to leave with no surplus momentum. Larger and larger pipe will harness more momentum. Another potential efficiency increase is too smooth out your intake. A pipe cut off at a sharp 90 will not flow as well as a pipe with a gradually tapered intake. Use a heat gun and soften the end of some 4" pipe to work it into a trumpet shape.
You may have seen this but a guy from Scotland built something like you describe. He calls it the $50 water turbine. It puts out 200 watts with a 7.5 foot drop. He said the change in diameter also helped to reduce cavitation. Also, instead of a 90 degree turn at the turbine he used a "Y"ish sort of connector (Shape: \\| | ). Channel is called OpenSourceLowTech. Link to his design here: ruclips.net/video/ibCu0PxIZA4/видео.html
The problem is the mppt, its designed for a current source (solar) it chokes the turbine chasing highest current, the dynamics of rotating machines are such that highest flux speed gives best power (loaded), switch to a lotech PWM charge controller, start again with your flow testing, measuring current vs turbine speed to find the best power, love the channel from Australia!
Buenos días señorita, hoy descubrí casualmente su canal y no pude dejar de ver muchos de sus vídeos, es usted muy talentosa, detallista y muy prolija en todos los trabajos que hace. Por este conjunto de cualidades la felicito. Ignoro donde aprendió todas esas tareas técnicas, pero es evidente que lo hace con gran pasión. Igualmente, lo mas fascinante de las imágenes es la sonrisa que aparece en su rostro cuando pone a prueba el trabajo realizado y todo sale a la perfección, se nota la alegría que le produce. Continúe así, hace un gran trabajo y resulta muy entretenido ver sus vídeos. Le mando un saludo desde Argentina.
These are some of my most favorite videos. I’m working on my own creek fed drip irrigation system, and, maybe one day, a micro hydro which is basically the same theory, just different attachments. Thanks Seth.
Ram Pump season and hydro season are also some of my favorite videos. I hope to travel to two local installs this summer for some nice complete functioning units.
The turbine shaft needs to be longer and situated close to the bottom of the delivery tube. The turbine needs velocity, and this is best delivered with a high static head.
No you are wrong it is a siphon turbine, the siphon propeller turbines exploit the depression that is created in the exhaust, it would not change anything in these conditions, the only way is to increase efficiency and production is by abasing the exhaust, increasing the jump, obviously there are limits due to cavitation and destruction of the propellers and maybe doing it slightly conical, the jump is measured from the surface of the water higher than the lower one. www.powerspout.com/collections/lh-low-head www.powerpal.co.uk/TurbineFlow_WithLeaves!.avi
@@winterburan Looking at the outflow volume, it is clear that there is a lot of cavitation in the exhaust flow. Cure this then I will agree with you. As it stands the cavitation in the exhaust serves to act as slippage and a reduced head height.
😢 although this just dropped into my feed first impressions is an archenemies screw and some kind of gear box between the output shaft and the generator 🤔
To measure the power you need to read the voltage of the input as well as the current. Not the voltage of the battery, else you can calculating it very wrong
@@LandtoHouse I would say the amp meter does not read in 2 directions and you had it wrong way round on the battery lead so you got no reading with pwm you will find panel footage is not much higher then the battery
Your source of energy is the potential energy stored in water due to height. One can increase the energy generation by increasing the water flow per unit time through the turbine. And to increase the water flow, you have to increase the height difference (as the turbine size and pipe width is fixed). Every extra feet of the depth is going to increase the energy generation. You can add a pipe length to reach straight till the rocks (as you have already mentioned ). If there is some decent slope then you can add even more pipes to to increase the height difference. Prefer to use some flexible pipe as joint and make an arc, avoid the sharp L bend. The additional gain in energy is directly proportional to the net-gain in height; doesn't matter the length or ups or downs in the pipe( though up and downs and lengths affect, but its negligible and also sometimes air gets stuck at the curves and thus reduces the net water flow ). Another way is by increasing the width of flow - out pipe. You can add a larger width - pipe at the point 2-3 inches below from where the turbine ends. This will suck out more water resulting in forced water flow over turbine due to volumetric difference. You have to keep the diameter same. The next smaller diameter pipe after the wider pipe is going to negate the extra suction created.
Try adding some ac capacitors that are close to the output rated voltage output of the generator, this will help build a stronger field in the generator and cause some reactive power to form. This will help bring up your output voltage so you can do more with less input from the water system. Its not free energy, it will act as a voltage booster and help stabilize the system. You need to get an mppt for battery changing because it will give more power while that pwm chops off some power production.
Love the ram pump and micro hydro videos, please keep them coming. You asked for possible improvements, I hope you will indulge me if I get a bit verbose. 1. Use a fully charged battery so your controller isn't pulling so much juice out of the turbine trying to bulk charge the battery and drawing down the turbine's output voltage just for bulk charging. 2. Make sure the runner pipe is full of water with no air before putting a load on the system. When the turbine slows down under load the siphon is no longer maintaining enough flow to self-purge air, and air trapped in the horizontal pipe restricts how much water can flow through it. I believe that's what happened when you tested the 2 inch reducer, there was air still trapped in the pipe so that test didn't have a proper flow of water. 3. It's really cool that Spencer Langston is letting you do this testing on the prototype. A design change for him to make for the Mark II would be to add stationary guide vanes just above the impeller. The fact that you have to manually start the turbine spinning suggests that the water, as the siphon is slowly starting, is swirling in the same direction as the impeller spiral, and not imparting any force on the turbine's vanes. Your spinning it by hand breaks that vortex/swirl letting the water begin to flow straight instead of swirling and then the water can begin pushing the turbine. Guide vanes angled opposite the turbine's spiral would not only let it self-start without help, but likely would also increase it's power output.
Seth, I am loving your series on micro hydro- I have a few projects coming up to use a creek for my rampump and a river for power and your R&D is very valuable
It might be a stupid answer, but those 3 meters of fall, will increase the water power by alot. So if you install the turbine at the bottom, instead of at the top, you will probably harvest much more energy.
The internal resistance of the battery us what's drawing down your voltage to 12.X if the battery was fully charged it would go up to whatever the absorption voltage settings on your charge controller is. Increasing the power output of the generator would make it reach absorption sooner but the voltage your seeing isn't "problem" it's just the nature of batteries.
You need to connect direct to battery and use a diversion load controller. Light bulbs are not good for diversion loads, use power resistors, dc heating elements, etc.
Get rid of that cheap charge controller. For short testing purposes you can connect directly to the battery but disconnect if the voltage goes too high. It might seem like a bunch of work but take your midnite solar classic down there and let it do a sweep. I'd bet your maximum power point is at a much higher voltage than 14v.
I might actually just purchase an inexpensive MPPT because I do want to bring power (solar) to the tiny house at some point. The 3 midnight classic are too deeply embedded into my house system and shed. I do think it would be interesting to have a better controller especially when I increase the downpipe size and increase the length of the down pipe.
@@LandtoHouse ok but note that cheap solar mppt controllers do a voltage sweep that is much to fast for hydro. You need a charge controller specifically designed for hydro.
@@LandtoHouse I think that Joe Malovich is right: You need to have a good MPPT Charge Controller to get reliable results. MidNite Classics are specified for solar, wind and hydro. And they have an internal power reading.
I think you need to drop the turbine to the position of the bucket, so that your not relying on flow so much as head pressure. The weight of the water alone should be enough to spin it.
To increase the power out of the system, there must be a larger elevation difference between the water in the pond and the elevation of the turbine impeller.
i love how when there's no load on the turbine it sounds like a jet engine getting ready to take and then boom put a load on it and the things sounds like it's ready to stall out
PWM controler drops source voltage down to battery voltage. MPPT charge controller adjust for maximum power. I would go for BLDC turbine instead, although it is more expensive.
Consider: Improve rpm by driving a large paddle wheel mounted pulley with your water supply. Then a small pulley on the turbine. Your use of water pressure can spin a large water wheel easily. Then, for every one turn of the big wheel the small driven wheel on your turbine will spin many times more, all while using the same size water supply. Bo.
@@LandtoHouse I have only seen a few so I will be going through some older vids too! Do you plan on restricting the inflow so it doesn’t drain your pond and eventually suck up air? My thought was at this rate it will produce more but eventually stop itself, slower inlet would be less power but over longer period of time?
Try to connect a 12 volt 15W bulb direct to the rectifier as a load, it would be better to get there with different resistors or lamps of lower power, forget the charge regulator and the battery for now, measure the power cos with a final voltage useful for charging a 15V battery for the liquid acid one, the current transformer sometimes has a directional arrow because it tries to turn it to see if the measurement changes. I love starting this turbine with the vacuum cleaner!
I only have one 12v bulb and I think its 6w. I will have to find it and see what the power rating is. The vacuum start is the best! I am about to move the 1-1/4" pipe up so I can start it from the top of the water and not have to walk down there.
@@LandtoHouse Great idea my friend, no only will that save you a lot of walking up and down, but it will also let you get ALL of the air out of your siphon. With the turbine bogged down under load, it may not have allowed the water to flow fast enough to self-purge the air, and any air remaining in the runner pipe (horizontal pipe) would reduce the water flow to the turbine and thus reduce its power output.
Absolutely. I've purchased a 45ﾟ angle that will get the pipe down into the water. I had to do that because the rocks are directly below the waterfall. Hopefully this next week I will be able to do both the pipe extension and the 6" pipe and test the power.
@@LandtoHouse also drawing inspiration from Dam design, could you test the power output of the generator on the end of the 4 inch pipe where the 45 is (as in move the generator to where the 45 is)and get the extra push from the water in the pipe dropping including the siphon to get power generated from not just the siphon but the weight of the water coming down the pipe and get power from the increased fluid velocity due to gravity
I asked Langston's alternative power that same question. He says that this style unit is designed to have water flow like this and not fall on to it. Apparently whenever I step up the pipe to 6" the venturi Effect will increase the speed. My guess is anywhere in that 4" pipe will have the same potential because of the syphon
Dear that looks like a PWM charge controller. Try a MPPT charge controller. That should be the first upgrade for your system. You can use a wind turbine type 3 phase MPPT charge controller too. Share the type of turbine you are using for power generation.
The way to improve that system is to get rid of it and install a micro with jets instead of turbine. That turbine is using too much water while producing too little power. Get a Turgo generator and you will easily produce 300 - 500w with what you have.
My other system makes 300+ watts. From the way I understand it the power calculation is: (head pressure x gpm)/10=power. So if this unit can have the full 8 feet of head pressure and a flow rate of 200gpm. That is 160w max. I dont know that this unit will pull 200gpm under load. I am guessing we can get it up to 100w with some tweaking.
That wont work in low head setup like this in a spot like this it is either pitch back overshot wheel or these turbines to little power from this unit is due to the windings been done for a set rpm for max power and with direct feed to battery the rpm is pulled down once the gen is in the correct rpm range it will perform better
There is a miss conception about pelton turbine. Pelton turbine are use with a high head so the pressure at end are the way to power the turbine. This case is a low head profile. So, the pressure is mostly null but you have to work with the volume of water. So pelton turbine is unadvised in this case.
@@jpmurray01 Yes you are totally right the head is too "little" How about the ancient grinding mill with a belt and dynamo like the old bicycle light generator 😊🤔just wondering...
For your mesurement, it seems you were reading the voltage from the battery while taking the amps mesurement from the generator. It will give you false reading! The charger act has a intelligent voltage and current limiter with some management, if you want to get the instatenious comsumption of the generator, you have to get the voltage and the current from the generator itself. The battery act has a voltage regulator and have a very low impedance. So it's not the best way to do brut test. If you want to get the optimum ratio of rotating speed, voltage and current all together. The best test should be like that: On a wood plate, fix 3 bulb socket were their neutral are all liked together. Then, put all 3 generator wire to each socket bulb. In this way, you will get a 3 AC phase system. Then, use different incendescent bulbs in group of 3 of 25w, 50w, 75w, 100,w etc... At each test, you put 3 bulbs of the same wattages. Then on one bulb, you take a kill-a-watt meter of some sort to get the power of one bulbs. Since it's pure resistive watts, you multiply by 3 acunting for each bulb. At some point, increasing the load will give you less power then a lighter load because the water system wont be able to spin the propeller efficiency anymore. Don't expect to have a bright light of some sort. The bulb act just has a cheap resistive load, even if it does not appear toput light, it's not important for the test. If you have more money to put on the test board, you can get a 3 phases autotransformer (it will act has a dimmer but it's important that it's a autotransformer 3 pahses). Whith this configuration, you don't need to change the bulbs anymore, you just put 3x250 watts incendescent bulbs and you ajust the rotating knob of the autotransfo. While doing that, you will feel the generator speed changing and the kill-a-watt changing value. At some degree, you will get a optimum wattage. This is more expensive but it's a permanent testing board for all you futurs tests. With this king of test, you will know exactly what is the optimum curve efficiency of all the system includid all the loss. The wattage curve should look like a parabolic curve were you start at 0 watt, get a maximum then return to 0. Why it return to 0? Because more you increase load, the more it looks like a short circuit (increasing a load is lowering the resistance (ohm)). And the maximum load you can have is by short circuiting all the 3 wires: You have the maximum of current but no voltage anymore, so, 0v x infinite amp = 0 watt. At this point, there is just the internal resistance of the generator left and the rotating speed will slow down significatily. While making this test, add a light switch on each generator leg to switch of the bulbs and replace them for other test (security reason) PS1 Intelligent charger: You should not use intelligent charger for test. A intelligent charger manage itself the best curve efficiency but limit it's current when the battery gets full charged. The floating char for AGM battery is 13,65v but some charger wont get over 12,8v. PS2 Some battery are old and their internal resistance get high, a intelligent charger will sense it and reduce the charging current to maximise the battery capacity and life. So, use all sort of intelligent interface to do brut test is not advised. PS3 During those test, never get higher amp then the generator coil can support, the coil will burn. By making a short circuit, it does not mean that the current inside the loop will be higher then the coil admissible amp. Because the water system might just not be powerful enought to overcome the generator resistance. So doing short circuit is OK has long has you do not have amp higher then the generator specs. The principal enemy of a coil is high voltage and temperature. It's the overheating coil that make the vernish around the copper melt and make the coil burn by short circuiting the round copper. High voltage can create arcs and brake the vernish too. PS4 By doing this brut test. You eventualy are testing the efficieny of the propeller. You told us that you were testing a new propeller? So, by doing this test with the 3 bulbs, you always get the same test all the time. Since your test is more rigorous, it's the best way to optimise futur propeller (you have to use the same generator since not generator (even if they have the same model) have the same comportment (bearing, shaft, magnet, casing, etc...)). So by eliminating the most variables (same pawn, same pipes, same genarator, same test procedure), that's the propeller that can be tested. And this his the MAIN thing to work with to increase efficiency. PS5 Turbulence: the propeller seems to be way to close to the 90 degres angle. Even if it should not matter where you put the propeller in a succion system, there is allways turbulence near angle, so the propeller should be lower to get a more stabilized mass of water flowing through the pales. I am a electrical technical engeneer in a college, I work with generator and electric motor all the time.
@@LandtoHouse that is almost contradictory to common sense huh? Seems there would be cavitation in the turbine vortex (vacuum cavitation) induced by negative pressure in the outflow.... but hey if it works man, it works! I could see where a 100 gpm flow would give you a nice wattage output to run your MPPT battery minders 24/7. Thanks for the vids man, I do appreciate it. I love to learn and read 50 or 60 books a year on such wildly varied subjects it is insane.
Just a comment on the available power: If your estimation of 60 gal/min (or 227 liters/min or 3.8 liters/sec) is right, and you have a 8' drop (2.44m), then you only have 3.8 kg/sec. × 2.44m × 9.81 m/sec² = 91 Watts available for continous opperation.
Yes. I am actually not looking for continuous operation though. I want to see what the max power is based on the head pressure I have available. This is all just testing for Spencer Langston. He is looking for numbers to tell his customers. In the meantime it makes for fun youtube content!
Q: why are you not using male and female threaded fittings for your test bed? That way You just screw your pipe on and off, and can purple prime and glue your system together so you can't stop air Penetration? Worst you would have to use a Little bit of Teflon pipe Dope Between the male and female threads? Also why not use a 1inch 45 right next to the 4" wye, so the 1" pipe goes straight up. Again you could use 1" male & female threaded Fittings for easier set up and break down for your tests, and glue the basics? I do it for my sprinkler systems when I am testing thing out.
It would seem the physics of the Bernoulli effect and Delta P should work in a way to help you produce more power. I would imagine building a smaller piping system, with a bigger alternator, maybe using jets and penstock pushing spoons might be what you need for that setup. I have a high flow creek (I would imagine there is thousands of gallons per minute that flow constantly on my property through the creek year round) I plan on using eventually for hydro power that I plan to eventually dam up a couple of feet at a "water fall" that is about 3 feet high, so I might be able to get a 6 to 9 feet drop (due to a 2-3 feet hole at the water fall, so daming up the creek on top of the water fall for a 2 or 3 foot dam would be 9 feet of fall) I am seriously considering building a home made "whirlpool" alternator and seeing if I can get it to work. I would be building it all from scratch, with concrete and winding my own alternator setup, and have been trying to study up on everything dealing with power generation with spinning magnets over copper coils.
That sounds like a great project. You have more than enough water to get some power. From my understanding the power calculation is (head pressure x gpm)/10 = power. So if you had 800gpm and 9 feet of head pressure: 720w all the time. That is nice power for 24/7.
@@LandtoHouse No, that gives you a power that is to low by a factor of nearly 2. You can calculate the power from the hight (not the head pressure!) and the gpm, but the formular then is: Heigh h (in feet) × gpm (gallons per minute) × 0.189 = Power (in Watts). That means a division by 5.3 (0.189 is roughly 1/5.3), and not by 10! In your example (800gpm and 9 feet drop) that gives 1360 Watts. Explanation: The stored energy in a lifted mass (or the Potential Energy) is generally Mass × Height × Gravitational Acceleration. To free this energy (and use it for generating electricity), you need to let a certain amount of mass fall down in a certain amound of time. Here the flowrate in gpm comes into play. That defines how many volume (gallons) of water falls down. Multiplied by the density of water (3.89 kg per gallon) gives you the falling mass per second. It is important to calculate this per second (and not per minute), because Watts are also defined in Joule per Second (1W = 1J / 1Sec.). Hence you get the Mass Flow rate by gpm × 3.79 kg per gallon / 60 Seconds. The Gravitational Acceleration of 9.81 m/s² must also be multiplied. All these numbers consolidated to P = gpm × 3.79 kg per gallon / 60 Seconds × Height (in feet) × 0.3048 m per feet × 9.81 m/s² = gpm × Height (in feet) × 0.189 [kg × m² / s³]. And 1 [kg × m² / s³] is 1 Watt. See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropower for comparison.
you need a dc-dc converter where you can set the input voltage to match the generator nominal voltage(whatever that voltage is) otherwise the battery will CLAMP(pull down) the motor to the the battery voltage which is clearly a lot lower. this is just like if you take a 50volt solar panel and connect it directly to a battery, it will get clamped down the the battery voltage. This is what a MPPT does, although I would not suggest hooking one to this unless you can SET the input voltage. Kris Harbour had this same problem on his hydro, and I think that he used a Tristar MPPT that he could out into hydro mode where he could SET the voltage of the input, and then it would CLAMP it to THAT voltage allowing him to get the power he wanted from his generator. If you haven't seen the video I am talking about, let me know and I can go dig up the link from his youtube.
Sir how much AC voltage you are getting ? . . . And sir you can add water pump to get more water pressure back to back right , instead of 4 inch pipe you may use 4 inch pipe for water pressure ... Reply sir ... I have one more question ...
Weird question: does the vertical distance from where the water starts to fall, to where it hits the blades make a difference with how much power you can generate ? I have view a number of people put the blades just a foot or two from the top. Just wondering if it makes a difference? { side note: I can't live with out my grinder when playing with SCH 40 pipe, I am always putting a bevel one the end of my pipe. I have got weird looks for doing it.}.
I will be installing the 6" down pipe in the next video. As for turbine placement. The way that I understand it the turbine would spin the same any place in the siphon.
@@LandtoHouse for a turbine that can produce 40V open circuit, you want to load it at ~20V for max power. Right now you're loading it at 12, so it's really not allowing the turbine to spin up. If you got two batteries in series without the charge controller you'd probably get a better result at 24V. Obviously don't let the batteries over charge.
@@LandtoHouse Here is a comparison video of PWM to MPPT. It shows the PWM is only half as efficient as the MPPT and can't convert amperage into volts which appears to be something that you need to happen with this system. ruclips.net/video/cdAkQCA5tuY/видео.html
I want to do kind of the same thing but using 5,000 gallon tanks on teeter totter with a directional rotational ratcheting shaft but I need a big hill to put my transmission lost in with a lot of downhill pressure the system at the bottom and a four-long pump underneath some of the cylinders and through love displacement to get the water to drain out as fast as possible it just pythagorean's cup redesigned
While I like the test setup I think that the turbine impeller is awfully inefficient in that it handles minor loads quite poorly given the size of the pipe and water availability. Perhaps a multi stage impeller could be a consideration.
I was given this small 4" unit with 3d printed impeller to test how well it works. There might be some changes to the design over time. So yes you might be on to something.
My neighbor has finished building his water wheel and should have it installed by the end o the summer. I need to finish these tests as soon as I can so that he can start the install. I will be sure to film the wheel once he has it installed.
I have just re-viewed your video, and something is puzzling me: @01:57 Why do you have 0.7 A of current flowing already before you have started the turbine? That means there is something consuming 8.3 Watts from the battery !?? Is it your white light bulb on the left, or is it current reflowing into the generator/turbine???
@@LandtoHouse Thanks for your fast response. Over 8 Watts would be a quite high consumption for the Watt Meter. Anyhow, if this parasitic consumption still persist while the turbine is running, it would consume nearly half of your generated power (you measured around 18 Watts).
If you want to measure the maximum power produced by our turbine, simply put a variable charge directly on your rectifier, like a variable number of 12V car lamps or another resistive load. Measure simultaneously voltage and amps out of the rectifier, while changing the load, and use the best product as a result.
@@LandtoHouse Yep, you need old fashion light bulbs. An more than one. Or a big rehostat. You can build one with inox wire you can make coils. (like this: ruclips.net/video/YC9DI7jJ-jw/видео.html ) If you put the coils into cold water it will not burn. You may create some identical coils, like 8, and use them in parallel or in serial or both to create variant pure resistive loads. But old filament car bulbs may be easier to use.
@@LandtoHouse An auto parts store or an RV/Camper store could help you with that, 12v fans, 12v car vacuums, 12v tire inflator, 12v lighting, or a working headlight and plug from a junkyard.
Couldn't you almost had a reservoir of water for siphon theory like you just be pulling water but you would have stored amount of weight for down pressure so you'd have to fill the system on the drop but you would be able to intensify load to generate a lot more wouldn't you
Hi, did you try to compare Wats you get from it with a theoretical energy that water running through the pipe with this head has? I wonder what is the current efficiency of the system.
Lets say it has 5 feet of drop and 100gpm flow. That would suggest 50w of power. I was getting almost 18w. So it needs to have that 90 removed on the intake and a larger and longer down pipe. My goal is to get 100w out of this unit.
When you charge a battery using a hydro turbine the voltage measured is always determined by the battery. I e the voltage of the turbine and the battery will read the same.
@@LandtoHouse Your battery started out at 11.5v (only 10% charged), so the charge controller drew a HUGE amount of amps from the turbine+rectifier to try to bulk charge the battery, bogging down the turbine a lot. A fully charged battery would likely have given you better results.
YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT IN A SECOND HYDRO GENERATOR.... THEN YOU WON'T NEED TO EXTEND YOUR PIPES. YOU WOULD WIRE THEM BOTH TOGETHER YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO JUST TO PUT THE WIRES TOGETHER.
To pick up a few watts depending on the initial run from the power souce to the rectifier, go with larger cable as DC getting cranky and starts wasting power into heat, even tiny amounts causing increased transmission resistance. I am talking relatively minor losses depending on the length of tge DC run, but why fritter away electricity, free or not.
The open circuit was 45v. As soon as the load was applied it dropped down to 12.8v. So I need to get more voltage out of the unit. In the next video I will be stepping up the down pipe size to get more power.
@@LandtoHouse you are using a own controller it doesn't matter how much voltage you put in its going to get pulled down to the battery voltage if you get more amps it will come up faster but you basically have just hooked up the generator with a bridge rectifier directly to the battery there was no point checking the voltage at the rectifier was going to be the same
Im going to make some assumptions about what your trying to test here and what is happening inside the pipes. Im no hydro engineer so I could be 100% off here. my knowledge is more computer and small electronics. But what I specialize in is troubleshooting hardware and software issues. 1. you are trying to recreate a similar set up to "Awesome Low Head High Flow Grid Tie Micro Hydro 530 watts!" 2. All the equipment is in 100% working order Upon seeing the power output was way lower that expected, once you fixed it reading the right wire I was expecting around 150-200 watts based upon that your using a 4 inch pipe vs the 6 your other video mentioned above. My first thought is water is moving too slow to power the turbine but why? After quickly reviewing your other video i think there are 2 things can be tried for the next test. So I think the issue is that there is a big turbulent water bubble stuck above the turbine which is restricting the flow of water. You have a 90 coming in there another than a sloped 90, 5 feet away with a restriction(turbine). I bet if you put your ear up to the pipe on top there would just a ton of noise in the pipe. To test this theory you need to listen to the pipe after a few min letting it run, then replace the turbine with an normal sloped 90. let it run for another couple of min(to make sure air is mostly out), the water coming out of the pail should also come out much faster.
To get this working better here are my thoughts. One fix that might work is to move the turbine down under the water 1 or 2 feet and have another 4 or 5 foot pipe into the turbine to create some head pressure which might push the turbulent water faster. Fix 2 like others have said is to remove the bucket. If it is letting air in then reduce it to the 3 inch or the 2 and retest. You never tested them without the bucket so they might preform better than the 4 inch with bucket. Best Fix, I think the issue is the design of the turbine being so close to the 90 where the water looses so much energy(sorry Spencer). I think a long shaft 2 or 3 feet down going into a y support with a water tight bearing would be the best fix. But testing different lengths of shaft should be done. And should be done with different turbine pipe sizes. To test all the correlations for data then a proper shaft length can be recommended to different customers based on their needs. Hope this helps, I could be 100% wrong but I got a good feeling about this one.
Do you got your generator at the top you need your generator you're turbine towards the bottom that way you have the momentum and inertia of the water falling you have your losing all your power because there is none you need the fall of the water move your generator to the bottom of the pipe
You are using the wrong type of regulator and wasting power. Those types clip excess voltage and does not go to charging. Since you can produce 45v, use an MPPT regulator and you will get more power out of your system.
It's not about AC or DC or the peak voltage, the size of the wire is determined by how many amps are flowing through the wire, i.e. 10g wire carries 30 amps whether its 120vac, 240vac, or 12vdc
Going up to a 6" suction pipe will somewhat increase the amount of power you get, but probably not for the reasons you think. A larger volume of water below will not inherently pull harder, just like a larger penstock on your hydro won't provide more pressure within the bounds of fluid friction.
The reason going up to a 6" draft tube (and tapered tubes in commercial installations of the same type) will increase power is because the water will slow down in order to flow through a larger cross sectional area pipe. To slow down water requires a pressure difference which will pull harder on the backside of the turbine. It's analogous to how with a pelton turbine you want the water to leave with no surplus momentum. Larger and larger pipe will harness more momentum.
Another potential efficiency increase is too smooth out your intake. A pipe cut off at a sharp 90 will not flow as well as a pipe with a gradually tapered intake. Use a heat gun and soften the end of some 4" pipe to work it into a trumpet shape.
You may have seen this but a guy from Scotland built something like you describe. He calls it the $50 water turbine. It puts out 200 watts with a 7.5 foot drop. He said the change in diameter also helped to reduce cavitation. Also, instead of a 90 degree turn at the turbine he used a "Y"ish sort of connector (Shape: \\| | ). Channel is called OpenSourceLowTech. Link to his design here: ruclips.net/video/ibCu0PxIZA4/видео.html
The problem is the mppt, its designed for a current source (solar) it chokes the turbine chasing highest current, the dynamics of rotating machines are such that highest flux speed gives best power (loaded), switch to a lotech PWM charge controller, start again with your flow testing, measuring current vs turbine speed to find the best power, love the channel from Australia!
Buenos días señorita, hoy descubrí casualmente su canal y no pude dejar de ver muchos de sus vídeos, es usted muy talentosa, detallista y muy prolija en todos los trabajos que hace. Por este conjunto de cualidades la felicito.
Ignoro donde aprendió todas esas tareas técnicas, pero es evidente que lo hace con gran pasión.
Igualmente, lo mas fascinante de las imágenes es la sonrisa que aparece en su rostro cuando pone a prueba el trabajo realizado y todo sale a la perfección, se nota la alegría que le produce. Continúe así, hace un gran trabajo y resulta muy entretenido ver sus vídeos.
Le mando un saludo desde Argentina.
These are some of my most favorite videos. I’m working on my own creek fed drip irrigation system, and, maybe one day, a micro hydro which is basically the same theory, just different attachments. Thanks Seth.
Ram Pump season and hydro season are also some of my favorite videos. I hope to travel to two local installs this summer for some nice complete functioning units.
@@LandtoHouse I’m looking forward to the videos
Get rid of the bucket once your siphon is going. The bucket is slowing down the water flow.
Langston says that air will creep back up the down pipe if the bucket is removed. I will give that a test when I increase the length of the down pipe.
The turbine shaft needs to be longer and situated close to the bottom of the delivery tube. The turbine needs velocity, and this is best delivered with a high static head.
No you are wrong it is a siphon turbine, the siphon propeller turbines exploit the depression that is created in the exhaust, it would not change anything in these conditions, the only way is to increase efficiency and production is by abasing the exhaust, increasing the jump, obviously there are limits due to cavitation and destruction of the propellers and maybe doing it slightly conical, the jump is measured from the surface of the water higher than the lower one.
www.powerspout.com/collections/lh-low-head
www.powerpal.co.uk/TurbineFlow_WithLeaves!.avi
@@winterburan Looking at the outflow volume, it is clear that there is a lot of cavitation in the exhaust flow. Cure this then I will agree with you.
As it stands the cavitation in the exhaust serves to act as slippage and a reduced head height.
😢 although this just dropped into my feed first impressions is an archenemies screw and some kind of gear box between the output shaft and the generator 🤔
I love everything hydroelectric. Such a cool technology that is far underutilized.
It really is nice. I have my pelton system that I need to get back up and running.
To measure the power you need to read the voltage of the input as well as the current. Not the voltage of the battery, else you can calculating it very wrong
Using the multimeter I found the input voltage under load to be 12.8v. The amps were 1.4. That is what gave the watts of 17.9w.
@@LandtoHouse I would say the amp meter does not read in 2 directions and you had it wrong way round on the battery lead so you got no reading with pwm you will find panel footage is not much higher then the battery
Lucky he didn't blow that battery up😂
Ohms law
Your source of energy is the potential energy stored in water due to height. One can increase the energy generation by increasing the water flow per unit time through the turbine. And to increase the water flow, you have to increase the height difference (as the turbine size and pipe width is fixed). Every extra feet of the depth is going to increase the energy generation. You can add a pipe length to reach straight till the rocks (as you have already mentioned ). If there is some decent slope then you can add even more pipes to to increase the height difference. Prefer to use some flexible pipe as joint and make an arc, avoid the sharp L bend.
The additional gain in energy is directly proportional to the net-gain in height; doesn't matter the length or ups or downs in the pipe( though up and downs and lengths affect, but its negligible and also sometimes air gets stuck at the curves and thus reduces the net water flow ).
Another way is by increasing the width of flow - out pipe. You can add a larger width - pipe at the point 2-3 inches below from where the turbine ends. This will suck out more water resulting in forced water flow over turbine due to volumetric difference. You have to keep the diameter same. The next smaller diameter pipe after the wider pipe is going to negate the extra suction created.
I really like those small turbine generators hope you get it figured out 👍👍🇺🇸
This testing is mostly for Langston alternative power to better understand this type install before selling this small unit. It is fun stuff though!
Try adding some ac capacitors that are close to the output rated voltage output of the generator, this will help build a stronger field in the generator and cause some reactive power to form. This will help bring up your output voltage so you can do more with less input from the water system. Its not free energy, it will act as a voltage booster and help stabilize the system. You need to get an mppt for battery changing because it will give more power while that pwm chops off some power production.
Love the ram pump and micro hydro videos, please keep them coming.
You asked for possible improvements, I hope you will indulge me if I get a bit verbose.
1. Use a fully charged battery so your controller isn't pulling so much juice out of the turbine trying to bulk charge the battery and drawing down the turbine's output voltage just for bulk charging.
2. Make sure the runner pipe is full of water with no air before putting a load on the system. When the turbine slows down under load the siphon is no longer maintaining enough flow to self-purge air, and air trapped in the horizontal pipe restricts how much water can flow through it. I believe that's what happened when you tested the 2 inch reducer, there was air still trapped in the pipe so that test didn't have a proper flow of water.
3. It's really cool that Spencer Langston is letting you do this testing on the prototype. A design change for him to make for the Mark II would be to add stationary guide vanes just above the impeller. The fact that you have to manually start the turbine spinning suggests that the water, as the siphon is slowly starting, is swirling in the same direction as the impeller spiral, and not imparting any force on the turbine's vanes. Your spinning it by hand breaks that vortex/swirl letting the water begin to flow straight instead of swirling and then the water can begin pushing the turbine. Guide vanes angled opposite the turbine's spiral would not only let it self-start without help, but likely would also increase it's power output.
I see you used PVM solar controller, but I think, water turbine works better with MPPT controller!
Awesome video. Thanks for keeping it real... can't wait for you to figure it out.
Awesome. Very practical. I love to try that mini turbine someday...
Nice to have a watts starting point. Now I can make changes to increase the power.
Seth, I am loving your series on micro hydro- I have a few projects coming up to use a creek for my rampump and a river for power and your R&D is very valuable
That is awesome! Both ram pumps and micro hydro are super fun. I hope that we can lock down some nice numbers here soon.
great to see you get some positive reads. Cant wait to see some mods for more power.
My guess is that increasing the down pipe length will make a big difference.
It might be a stupid answer, but those 3 meters of fall, will increase the water power by alot. So if you install the turbine at the bottom, instead of at the top, you will probably harvest much more energy.
The internal resistance of the battery us what's drawing down your voltage to 12.X if the battery was fully charged it would go up to whatever the absorption voltage settings on your charge controller is.
Increasing the power output of the generator would make it reach absorption sooner but the voltage your seeing isn't "problem" it's just the nature of batteries.
You need to connect direct to battery and use a diversion load controller. Light bulbs are not good for diversion loads, use power resistors, dc heating elements, etc.
Turgo wheel down the waterfall with such amount of water and you'll get upto 150w easily
I’m planning on doing a similar and system, love this content and learning about this process
Nice! I hope that we lock down exactly what needs to be done with this 4" unit so that it can help you get right to making power!
lowering the outfall is increasing the head pressure,( ie the amount of fall exerted by the water column)
Get rid of that cheap charge controller. For short testing purposes you can connect directly to the battery but disconnect if the voltage goes too high.
It might seem like a bunch of work but take your midnite solar classic down there and let it do a sweep. I'd bet your maximum power point is at a much higher voltage than 14v.
I might actually just purchase an inexpensive MPPT because I do want to bring power (solar) to the tiny house at some point. The 3 midnight classic are too deeply embedded into my house system and shed. I do think it would be interesting to have a better controller especially when I increase the downpipe size and increase the length of the down pipe.
@@LandtoHouse ok but note that cheap solar mppt controllers do a voltage sweep that is much to fast for hydro. You need a charge controller specifically designed for hydro.
@@LandtoHouse I think that Joe Malovich is right: You need to have a good MPPT Charge Controller to get reliable results. MidNite Classics are specified for solar, wind and hydro. And they have an internal power reading.
One solution might be to lower the alternator some so that there's more head pressure unless the siphon design doesn't work on head pressure.
I think you need to drop the turbine to the position of the bucket, so that your not relying on flow so much as head pressure. The weight of the water alone should be enough to spin it.
To increase the power out of the system, there must be a larger elevation difference between the water in the pond and the elevation of the turbine impeller.
i love how when there's no load on the turbine it sounds like a jet engine getting ready to take and then boom put a load on it and the things sounds like it's ready to stall out
When that intake is removed it sounds like monster!
Suction on hydro needs smaller so water will stay above critical rate and remove air from suction.
PWM controler drops source voltage down to battery voltage.
MPPT charge controller adjust for maximum power. I would go for BLDC turbine instead, although it is more expensive.
Would a capacitor across the DC of the rectifier help to get a better DC voltage?
I hope he can get it to have a useful amount of power output where I live is perfect for 100s of small units like this
I think that we are about to see the power increase a lot when I increase the head pressure.
Consider: Improve rpm by driving a large paddle wheel mounted pulley with your water supply. Then a small pulley on the turbine. Your use of water pressure can spin a large water wheel easily. Then, for every one turn of the big wheel the small driven wheel on your turbine will spin many times more, all while using the same size water supply. Bo.
After I finish testing this 4" unit for Langston Alternative Power my neighbor is going to install a waterwheel. He has already built it.
New subscriber here. Thanks for your videos! Learning so much.
Thank you for being part of the channel. Lots of water stuff here at land to house.
@@LandtoHouse I have only seen a few so I will be going through some older vids too!
Do you plan on restricting the inflow so it doesn’t drain your pond and eventually suck up air? My thought was at this rate it will produce more but eventually stop itself, slower inlet would be less power but over longer period of time?
Try to connect a 12 volt 15W bulb direct to the rectifier as a load, it would be better to get there with different resistors or lamps of lower power, forget the charge regulator and the battery for now, measure the power cos with a final voltage useful for charging a 15V battery for the liquid acid one, the current transformer sometimes has a directional arrow because it tries to turn it to see if the measurement changes.
I love starting this turbine with the vacuum cleaner!
I only have one 12v bulb and I think its 6w. I will have to find it and see what the power rating is. The vacuum start is the best! I am about to move the 1-1/4" pipe up so I can start it from the top of the water and not have to walk down there.
@@LandtoHouse Great idea my friend, no only will that save you a lot of walking up and down, but it will also let you get ALL of the air out of your siphon. With the turbine bogged down under load, it may not have allowed the water to flow fast enough to self-purge the air, and any air remaining in the runner pipe (horizontal pipe) would reduce the water flow to the turbine and thus reduce its power output.
To take full advantage of kinetic energy place the turbine at the base of the pipe. 🎉
after you get the water flow going get the buck out of the way as it slowing flow down and make down pipe 4 to 5 feet longer
Did you ever ponder the idea of extending the PVC pipe into the stream to forgo using the bucket?
Absolutely. I've purchased a 45ﾟ angle that will get the pipe down into the water. I had to do that because the rocks are directly below the waterfall. Hopefully this next week I will be able to do both the pipe extension and the 6" pipe and test the power.
@@LandtoHouse also drawing inspiration from Dam design, could you test the power output of the generator on the end of the 4 inch pipe where the 45 is (as in move the generator to where the 45 is)and get the extra push from the water in the pipe dropping including the siphon to get power generated from not just the siphon but the weight of the water coming down the pipe and get power from the increased fluid velocity due to gravity
I asked Langston's alternative power that same question. He says that this style unit is designed to have water flow like this and not fall on to it. Apparently whenever I step up the pipe to 6" the venturi Effect will increase the speed.
My guess is anywhere in that 4" pipe will have the same potential because of the syphon
Dear that looks like a PWM charge controller. Try a MPPT charge controller. That should be the first upgrade for your system.
You can use a wind turbine type 3 phase MPPT charge controller too.
Share the type of turbine you are using for power generation.
Can you run two generators on top of each other on the same line maybe even three
Brilliant
The way to improve that system is to get rid of it and install a micro with jets instead of turbine. That turbine is using too much water while producing too little power. Get a Turgo generator and you will easily produce 300 - 500w with what you have.
My other system makes 300+ watts. From the way I understand it the power calculation is:
(head pressure x gpm)/10=power. So if this unit can have the full 8 feet of head pressure and a flow rate of 200gpm. That is 160w max. I dont know that this unit will pull 200gpm under load. I am guessing we can get it up to 100w with some tweaking.
@@LandtoHouse Didn't you say you were getting 100 gpm?
That wont work in low head setup like this in a spot like this it is either pitch back overshot wheel or these turbines to little power from this unit is due to the windings been done for a set rpm for max power and with direct feed to battery the rpm is pulled down once the gen is in the correct rpm range it will perform better
There is a miss conception about pelton turbine. Pelton turbine are use with a high head so the pressure at end are the way to power the turbine.
This case is a low head profile. So, the pressure is mostly null but you have to work with the volume of water. So pelton turbine is unadvised in this case.
@@jpmurray01 Yes you are totally right the head is too "little" How about the ancient grinding mill with a belt and dynamo like the old bicycle light generator 😊🤔just wondering...
What if you run multiple terbine's on top of the other that should increase it is that possible
Can you run it from the top pond and get more head?
For your mesurement, it seems you were reading the voltage from the battery while taking the amps mesurement from the generator. It will give you false reading! The charger act has a intelligent voltage and current limiter with some management, if you want to get the instatenious comsumption of the generator, you have to get the voltage and the current from the generator itself. The battery act has a voltage regulator and have a very low impedance. So it's not the best way to do brut test.
If you want to get the optimum ratio of rotating speed, voltage and current all together. The best test should be like that:
On a wood plate, fix 3 bulb socket were their neutral are all liked together. Then, put all 3 generator wire to each socket bulb. In this way, you will get a 3 AC phase system. Then, use different incendescent bulbs in group of 3 of 25w, 50w, 75w, 100,w etc... At each test, you put 3 bulbs of the same wattages.
Then on one bulb, you take a kill-a-watt meter of some sort to get the power of one bulbs. Since it's pure resistive watts, you multiply by 3 acunting for each bulb.
At some point, increasing the load will give you less power then a lighter load because the water system wont be able to spin the propeller efficiency anymore.
Don't expect to have a bright light of some sort. The bulb act just has a cheap resistive load, even if it does not appear toput light, it's not important for the test.
If you have more money to put on the test board, you can get a 3 phases autotransformer (it will act has a dimmer but it's important that it's a autotransformer 3 pahses). Whith this configuration, you don't need to change the bulbs anymore, you just put 3x250 watts incendescent bulbs and you ajust the rotating knob of the autotransfo. While doing that, you will feel the generator speed changing and the kill-a-watt changing value. At some degree, you will get a optimum wattage. This is more expensive but it's a permanent testing board for all you futurs tests.
With this king of test, you will know exactly what is the optimum curve efficiency of all the system includid all the loss. The wattage curve should look like a parabolic curve were you start at 0 watt, get a maximum then return to 0. Why it return to 0? Because more you increase load, the more it looks like a short circuit (increasing a load is lowering the resistance (ohm)). And the maximum load you can have is by short circuiting all the 3 wires: You have the maximum of current but no voltage anymore, so, 0v x infinite amp = 0 watt. At this point, there is just the internal resistance of the generator left and the rotating speed will slow down significatily.
While making this test, add a light switch on each generator leg to switch of the bulbs and replace them for other test (security reason)
PS1
Intelligent charger: You should not use intelligent charger for test. A intelligent charger manage itself the best curve efficiency but limit it's current when the battery gets full charged. The floating char for AGM battery is 13,65v but some charger wont get over 12,8v.
PS2
Some battery are old and their internal resistance get high, a intelligent charger will sense it and reduce the charging current to maximise the battery capacity and life. So, use all sort of intelligent interface to do brut test is not advised.
PS3
During those test, never get higher amp then the generator coil can support, the coil will burn. By making a short circuit, it does not mean that the current inside the loop will be higher then the coil admissible amp. Because the water system might just not be powerful enought to overcome the generator resistance. So doing short circuit is OK has long has you do not have amp higher then the generator specs. The principal enemy of a coil is high voltage and temperature. It's the overheating coil that make the vernish around the copper melt and make the coil burn by short circuiting the round copper. High voltage can create arcs and brake the vernish too.
PS4
By doing this brut test. You eventualy are testing the efficieny of the propeller. You told us that you were testing a new propeller? So, by doing this test with the 3 bulbs, you always get the same test all the time. Since your test is more rigorous, it's the best way to optimise futur propeller (you have to use the same generator since not generator (even if they have the same model) have the same comportment (bearing, shaft, magnet, casing, etc...)). So by eliminating the most variables (same pawn, same pipes, same genarator, same test procedure), that's the propeller that can be tested. And this his the MAIN thing to work with to increase efficiency.
PS5
Turbulence: the propeller seems to be way to close to the 90 degres angle. Even if it should not matter where you put the propeller in a succion system, there is allways turbulence near angle, so the propeller should be lower to get a more stabilized mass of water flowing through the pales.
I am a electrical technical engeneer in a college, I work with generator and electric motor all the time.
Powerful talaga
Those micro generators work on tail stock vacuum instead of head pressure? Kinda new to that concept.
Yes! The down pipe is what effects the power on this type unit. The other system i have uses head pressure.
@@LandtoHouse that is almost contradictory to common sense huh? Seems there would be cavitation in the turbine vortex (vacuum cavitation) induced by negative pressure in the outflow.... but hey if it works man, it works! I could see where a 100 gpm flow would give you a nice wattage output to run your MPPT battery minders 24/7. Thanks for the vids man, I do appreciate it. I love to learn and read 50 or 60 books a year on such wildly varied subjects it is insane.
Just a comment on the available power: If your estimation of 60 gal/min (or 227 liters/min or 3.8 liters/sec) is right, and you have a 8' drop (2.44m), then you only have 3.8 kg/sec. × 2.44m × 9.81 m/sec² = 91 Watts available for continous opperation.
Yes. I am actually not looking for continuous operation though. I want to see what the max power is based on the head pressure I have available. This is all just testing for Spencer Langston. He is looking for numbers to tell his customers. In the meantime it makes for fun youtube content!
Great analysis!
It doesn't have much force or pressure to push the turbine.
Lower the turbine about one meter to gain more weight.
Q: why are you not using male and female threaded fittings for your test bed? That way
You just screw your pipe on and off, and can purple prime and glue your system together so you can't stop air Penetration? Worst you would have to use a Little bit of Teflon pipe Dope Between the male and female threads? Also why not use a 1inch 45 right next to the 4" wye, so the 1" pipe goes straight up. Again you could use 1" male & female threaded Fittings for easier set up and break down for your tests, and glue the basics? I do it for my sprinkler systems when I am testing thing out.
I like this
It would seem the physics of the Bernoulli effect and Delta P should work in a way to help you produce more power. I would imagine building a smaller piping system, with a bigger alternator, maybe using jets and penstock pushing spoons might be what you need for that setup. I have a high flow creek (I would imagine there is thousands of gallons per minute that flow constantly on my property through the creek year round) I plan on using eventually for hydro power that I plan to eventually dam up a couple of feet at a "water fall" that is about 3 feet high, so I might be able to get a 6 to 9 feet drop (due to a 2-3 feet hole at the water fall, so daming up the creek on top of the water fall for a 2 or 3 foot dam would be 9 feet of fall) I am seriously considering building a home made "whirlpool" alternator and seeing if I can get it to work. I would be building it all from scratch, with concrete and winding my own alternator setup, and have been trying to study up on everything dealing with power generation with spinning magnets over copper coils.
That sounds like a great project. You have more than enough water to get some power. From my understanding the power calculation is (head pressure x gpm)/10 = power.
So if you had 800gpm and 9 feet of head pressure: 720w all the time. That is nice power for 24/7.
@@LandtoHouse No, that gives you a power that is to low by a factor of nearly 2. You can calculate the power from the hight (not the head pressure!) and the gpm, but the formular then is: Heigh h (in feet) × gpm (gallons per minute) × 0.189 = Power (in Watts). That means a division by 5.3 (0.189 is roughly 1/5.3), and not by 10! In your example (800gpm and 9 feet drop) that gives 1360 Watts.
Explanation: The stored energy in a lifted mass (or the Potential Energy) is generally Mass × Height × Gravitational Acceleration. To free this energy (and use it for generating electricity), you need to let a certain amount of mass fall down in a certain amound of time. Here the flowrate in gpm comes into play. That defines how many volume (gallons) of water falls down. Multiplied by the density of water (3.89 kg per gallon) gives you the falling mass per second. It is important to calculate this per second (and not per minute), because Watts are also defined in Joule per Second (1W = 1J / 1Sec.). Hence you get the Mass Flow rate by gpm × 3.79 kg per gallon / 60 Seconds. The Gravitational Acceleration of 9.81 m/s² must also be multiplied. All these numbers consolidated to P = gpm × 3.79 kg per gallon / 60 Seconds × Height (in feet) × 0.3048 m per feet × 9.81 m/s² = gpm × Height (in feet) × 0.189 [kg × m² / s³]. And 1 [kg × m² / s³] is 1 Watt.
See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropower for comparison.
you need a dc-dc converter where you can set the input voltage to match the generator nominal voltage(whatever that voltage is) otherwise the battery will CLAMP(pull down) the motor to the the battery voltage which is clearly a lot lower. this is just like if you take a 50volt solar panel and connect it directly to a battery, it will get clamped down the the battery voltage.
This is what a MPPT does, although I would not suggest hooking one to this unless you can SET the input voltage. Kris Harbour had this same problem on his hydro, and I think that he used a Tristar MPPT that he could out into hydro mode where he could SET the voltage of the input, and then it would CLAMP it to THAT voltage allowing him to get the power he wanted from his generator.
If you haven't seen the video I am talking about, let me know and I can go dig up the link from his youtube.
Sir how much AC voltage you are getting ? . . . And sir you can add water pump to get more water pressure back to back right , instead of 4 inch pipe you may use 4 inch pipe for water pressure ... Reply sir ... I have one more question ...
I would thing you need to mmake the intake tube longer so the weight of the water increases for more potenial energy.
Weird question: does the vertical distance from where the water starts to fall, to where it hits the blades make a difference with how much power you can generate ? I have view a number of people put the blades just a foot or two from the top. Just wondering if it makes a difference? { side note: I can't live with out my grinder when playing with SCH 40 pipe, I am always putting a bevel one the end of my pipe. I have got weird looks for doing it.}.
Problem in pwm solar controller. Becouse pwm 60 volts cut to 12 volts. U need use mppt controller.
Wouldn't putting the turbine at the bottom increase the available power ?
Not in a siphon system.
Why not try a wider downpipe ?? And the motor lower in the downpipe. So you have "weight" on the rotor.?
I will be installing the 6" down pipe in the next video. As for turbine placement. The way that I understand it the turbine would spin the same any place in the siphon.
@@LandtoHouse ok. I will watch your next video to see the results. I like your way of thinking. 👍👍
@@LandtoHouse yes, this kaplan/axial flow type works on the rate of flow, not the pressure.
Would you get more power if the turbine was located at the bottom of the pipe instead of the top?
Because this unit is in a siphon it does not matter if its on the top or in the bottom.
@@LandtoHouse OK thanks :)
Is the charge controler mppt or pwm
This is a cheap PWM charge controller it's all I had at the house for testing this unit.
@@LandtoHouse for a turbine that can produce 40V open circuit, you want to load it at ~20V for max power. Right now you're loading it at 12, so it's really not allowing the turbine to spin up. If you got two batteries in series without the charge controller you'd probably get a better result at 24V. Obviously don't let the batteries over charge.
@@LandtoHouse Here is a comparison video of PWM to MPPT. It shows the PWM is only half as efficient as the MPPT and can't convert amperage into volts which appears to be something that you need to happen with this system.
ruclips.net/video/cdAkQCA5tuY/видео.html
what does such a turbine cost
I want to do kind of the same thing but using 5,000 gallon tanks on teeter totter with a directional rotational ratcheting shaft but I need a big hill to put my transmission lost in with a lot of downhill pressure the system at the bottom and a four-long pump underneath some of the cylinders and through love displacement to get the water to drain out as fast as possible it just pythagorean's cup redesigned
What about a gear to get the rpm higher?
How did you get a stone pond/ dam on your property
I am a multimillionaire. ... just kidding! This land was going to be a housing development but it fell through many years ago.
@@LandtoHouse nice, I just thought it was super cool but not normal and took lots of money and time to build.
While I like the test setup I think that the turbine impeller is awfully inefficient in that it handles minor loads quite poorly given the size of the pipe and water availability. Perhaps a multi stage impeller could be a consideration.
I was given this small 4" unit with 3d printed impeller to test how well it works. There might be some changes to the design over time. So yes you might be on to something.
I want this to work but can't help thinking a over shot water wheel is hard to beet
My neighbor has finished building his water wheel and should have it installed by the end o the summer. I need to finish these tests as soon as I can so that he can start the install. I will be sure to film the wheel once he has it installed.
I have just re-viewed your video, and something is puzzling me: @01:57 Why do you have 0.7 A of current flowing already before you have started the turbine? That means there is something consuming 8.3 Watts from the battery !?? Is it your white light bulb on the left, or is it current reflowing into the generator/turbine???
I'm assuming that is the power being consumed by the volt amp meter.
@@LandtoHouse Thanks for your fast response. Over 8 Watts would be a quite high consumption for the Watt Meter. Anyhow, if this parasitic consumption still persist while the turbine is running, it would consume nearly half of your generated power (you measured around 18 Watts).
Hi Seth , good work , how do I get in contact with you ?
The problem is your using pwm so gen is pulled out of the efficent range if mppt was used it would be able to reach the higher rpm and voltage
This PWM charge controller is all that I had here at the house for testing. I need to pick up a mppt to do further testing later.
@@LandtoHouse a buck converter can be good to test I was using it as a manual mppt with solar to keep them in better power range
I feel like old car alternators work best I'm these situations
They have to be rewired but yes they work well.
If you want to measure the maximum power produced by our turbine, simply put a variable charge directly on your rectifier, like a variable number of 12V car lamps or another resistive load. Measure simultaneously voltage and amps out of the rectifier, while changing the load, and use the best product as a result.
I need to get a 12v bulb. I think what I have is an LED and would not do well in this application.
@@LandtoHouse Yep, you need old fashion light bulbs. An more than one. Or a big rehostat. You can build one with inox wire you can make coils. (like this: ruclips.net/video/YC9DI7jJ-jw/видео.html ) If you put the coils into cold water it will not burn. You may create some identical coils, like 8, and use them in parallel or in serial or both to create variant pure resistive loads. But old filament car bulbs may be easier to use.
@@LandtoHouse An auto parts store or an RV/Camper store could help you with that, 12v fans, 12v car vacuums, 12v tire inflator, 12v lighting, or a working headlight and plug from a junkyard.
Couldn't you almost had a reservoir of water for siphon theory like you just be pulling water but you would have stored amount of weight for down pressure so you'd have to fill the system on the drop but you would be able to intensify load to generate a lot more wouldn't you
Hi, did you try to compare Wats you get from it with a theoretical energy that water running through the pipe with this head has? I wonder what is the current efficiency of the system.
Lets say it has 5 feet of drop and 100gpm flow. That would suggest 50w of power. I was getting almost 18w.
So it needs to have that 90 removed on the intake and a larger and longer down pipe. My goal is to get 100w out of this unit.
@@LandtoHouse hope to see 100W soon or maybe 1kW! Would be great. And the Nobel prize for phisics as well.
how about using a step up transformer ?
One of my next additions is to go from 12v to 24v on the battery. That should help a lot.
Longer intake would help too
I am going to take that 90 out and place a 45 with longer pipe. That should increase power output because less friction on the intake.
When you charge a battery using a hydro turbine the voltage measured is always determined by the battery. I e the voltage of the turbine and the battery will read the same.
Interesting! I think that Langston tried to explain that. He said that I needed to get another battery to 24v and test that way.
@@LandtoHouse Your battery started out at 11.5v (only 10% charged), so the charge controller drew a HUGE amount of amps from the turbine+rectifier to try to bulk charge the battery, bogging down the turbine a lot. A fully charged battery would likely have given you better results.
Great!! 😀😀👏👏
Thank you. It is starting to make progress!
@@LandtoHouse 👍👍👏👏
YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT IN A SECOND HYDRO GENERATOR.... THEN YOU WON'T NEED TO EXTEND YOUR PIPES. YOU WOULD WIRE THEM BOTH TOGETHER YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO JUST TO PUT THE WIRES TOGETHER.
To pick up a few watts depending on the initial run from the power souce to the rectifier, go with larger cable as DC getting cranky and starts wasting power into heat, even tiny amounts causing increased transmission resistance. I am talking relatively minor losses depending on the length of tge DC run, but why fritter away electricity, free or not.
Of your open circuit is 40 something why would you use a own charge controller and if you are use at least 24v
The open circuit was 45v. As soon as the load was applied it dropped down to 12.8v. So I need to get more voltage out of the unit. In the next video I will be stepping up the down pipe size to get more power.
@@LandtoHouse you are using a own controller it doesn't matter how much voltage you put in its going to get pulled down to the battery voltage if you get more amps it will come up faster but you basically have just hooked up the generator with a bridge rectifier directly to the battery there was no point checking the voltage at the rectifier was going to be the same
Hola con ese lugar puedes montar mas potencia el generador no es adecuado para tener potencia como unos 5 kilo watts de potencia
You re posted this?
Bump
No last video was open circuit voltage. This is a test of the power under load.
Im going to make some assumptions about what your trying to test here and what is happening inside the pipes. Im no hydro engineer so I could be 100% off here. my knowledge is more computer and small electronics. But what I specialize in is troubleshooting hardware and software issues.
1. you are trying to recreate a similar set up to "Awesome Low Head High Flow Grid Tie Micro Hydro 530 watts!"
2. All the equipment is in 100% working order
Upon seeing the power output was way lower that expected, once you fixed it reading the right wire I was expecting around 150-200 watts based upon that your using a 4 inch pipe vs the 6 your other video mentioned above.
My first thought is water is moving too slow to power the turbine but why? After quickly reviewing your other video i think there are 2 things can be tried for the next test.
So I think the issue is that there is a big turbulent water bubble stuck above the turbine which is restricting the flow of water. You have a 90 coming in there another than a sloped 90, 5 feet away with a restriction(turbine). I bet if you put your ear up to the pipe on top there would just a ton of noise in the pipe. To test this theory you need to listen to the pipe after a few min letting it run, then replace the turbine with an normal sloped 90. let it run for another couple of min(to make sure air is mostly out), the water coming out of the pail should also come out much faster.
To get this working better here are my thoughts.
One fix that might work is to move the turbine down under the water 1 or 2 feet and have another 4 or 5 foot pipe into the turbine to create some head pressure which might push the turbulent water faster.
Fix 2 like others have said is to remove the bucket. If it is letting air in then reduce it to the 3 inch or the 2 and retest. You never tested them without the bucket so they might preform better than the 4 inch with bucket.
Best Fix, I think the issue is the design of the turbine being so close to the 90 where the water looses so much energy(sorry Spencer). I think a long shaft 2 or 3 feet down going into a y support with a water tight bearing would be the best fix. But testing different lengths of shaft should be done. And should be done with different turbine pipe sizes. To test all the correlations for data then a proper shaft length can be recommended to different customers based on their needs.
Hope this helps, I could be 100% wrong but I got a good feeling about this one.
Do you got your generator at the top you need your generator you're turbine towards the bottom that way you have the momentum and inertia of the water falling you have your losing all your power because there is none you need the fall of the water move your generator to the bottom of the pipe
That looks like a 6 inch pipe to me, yet the title says 4 inch
There is not enough torque, RMP drops significantly.
Yes I am thinking an additional 5 feet of drop will fix that or the increase of down pipe to 6".
You are using the wrong type of regulator and wasting power. Those types clip excess voltage and does not go to charging. Since you can produce 45v, use an MPPT regulator and you will get more power out of your system.
Inspector gadget
Haha yes mixing water and electricity.
💡😀
I do need to connect this to the bulb and see it glow.
DC needs much larger conductors, larger wire\cables
Rocker, he is using DC after three rectifier only, the gen is 3 phase ac
@@Iamsuccesspro Yes, I saw the video, the DC\battery requires larger conductors even if it's for demonstration purposes
I just used lamp wire to go from the rectifier to the charge controller. If I had this in a permanent setup I would for sure use larger wire.
It's not about AC or DC or the peak voltage, the size of the wire is determined by how many amps are flowing through the wire, i.e. 10g wire carries 30 amps whether its 120vac, 240vac, or 12vdc
@@workbenchz Its about DC requiring larger gauge conductors
I do not believe you make even 300Watts
Remove the bucket. It acts as a break
Langston says that it will stop the siphon. Perhaps when I swap from the wooden platform to the full length down pipe I can do a bucket removal test.
6" down pipe will only result in higher slippage, it will have reduced torque on the turbine.
17watts is unacceptable... you need more juice.
Hmmm
Don’t have TV
Not sure what that means.
WTF I need see watts
Every system needs to be loaded properly to work best, that's what Seth is trying to establish
The watts were 17.9w ish. 12.8volts x 1.4amps = 17.9