We are being hard with Thomas, he is not allowing anything, he is hurt…the fact that he continues following is evidence of his faith, he just needs to heal.
I agree about being too hard on Thomas. Didn’t Jesus say to Andrew in the episode where they are sitting shiva for John…”everyone mourns differently”? Thomas right now is holding on to what little faith he has and is “staying with Jesus” just as Ramah asked him to. He will eventually make his way thru. I like this storyline because it is relatable and helpful to others who are struggling in the same way.
@@joannconway8919 Yep. I have a close friend who lost his dad to cancer last year. A lot of what Thomas said and did is very similar to how my friend behaved. Was it dishonoring to God? Some of it yeah, but he's grown through it. He's a much different person now than last year, which has been amazing to see! But, the way they're showing Thomas is I think a smart lead up to him eventually being the only one to doubt that Jesus is actually risen and there with them again. It does make sense, at least to me.
Many people think that “you should get on with your life” -- grief is different for everyone!!! I’m glad the Chosen is showing-IT taking time…. because it does!!!!! My husband was killed suddenly and unexpectedly. We had a 1 year old and I was 3 months pregnant. It was years before I become myself again. Bravo….the Chosen … showing Simon handling IT all wrong-then Thomas. -- and they were walking with the Lord Jesus, day to day. Our humanity shows how we need Jesus to lift us up out of --the sinking sand.
what if Thomas' storyline in the Chosen isn't over yet? What if Dallas is actually creating a scenario for Thomas whereby when bad things happen he doesn't immediately go to the Lord because so many people nowadays do the same exact thing? Maybe Dallas is writing to show people how to come back to the Lord after that? It's hard to judge a story that's not over yet. this show is really meant to help people through their grief today, not to depict how some would like to see Thomas "correctly" deal with grief.
@@DallasJenkinsOfficial Awesome writing, Dallas! i'm deeply grateful to you for creating this series. It has definitely changed my life! God bless you.
I agree! To think that ANY of the apostles would have been able to react ‘correctly’ in this proposed situation is a mistake, to my mind. They were already shaken by the danger that was growing, already trying to overcome their presumptions of what the Messiah would be and would do. Jesus just didn’t do anything the way they thought He would. I find the story line and reactions totally plausible.
I love the Bible Round Tables. It really shows how Dallas, Ryan, and Tyler pray and seek the Lord as they write these scripts. The round tables give a perspective from three different gentlemen that really blesses me.
Brandon, I hope that you take this with love and I respect your opinions and I really enjoy your channel, but everyone grieves in a different way. And I believe that Jesus understands this. I went into a deep depression and I grieved for 17 years when my husband died and yet I still loved and followed Jesus with all of my heart and all my soul. Also, just because Thomas was an apostle, he was just human just like you and me!
There are times that I experienced trauma in my life and I have shared this with other Christians. An answer that I have gotten is, "God saw everything that you were going through". At first my attitude was like "What!!!" You're telling me that, this terrible thing happened while God was watching the whole time??" This wasn't comforting at first. Since I have gotten older and I understand this much better than when I was younger. But I think that I understand how Thomas is reacting for these episodes.
Re Thomas's reaction to his grief about Ramah not being a good example of how a Christian should deal with grief. I can't help but think that's the point. Peter's attitude towards the inclusion of gentiles is something that yo-yos a lot in Scripture. God has to deal with him multiple times both directly and also through Paul in calling him out for acting contrary to God's newly revealed teaching on this. Even to the point that Peter is actually leading others badly away from because of his actions and attitudes because of v his behaviour. Also when Paul and Barnubus disagree strongly about John Mark that's hardly them being good examples of leadership and resolving differences. These disciples were not perfect in how they followed Jesus. Hey we're about to see Peter deny he knows Jesus. I do think we're so used to see them in Sunday school stories and Bible stories and demons that we forget how human and flawed they would have been. Is Thomas getting drunk the best way of him dealing with his grief no. But have Christians had this kind of reactions and God has worked through it and brought them through it and been able to use them even more. Not saying it makes their behaviour and reaction okay but I guess I view it as a a Romans 8:28 kind of situation. Hope this makes some kind of sense and isn't too waffily
Grief is a very personal journey. In my experience, regardless of faith and what the Bible tells us to do, we can plunge into the type of despair which to others can seem contrary to living as a Christian. Yet God is Faithful. He knows His own children. He can and does bring us out of the darkness into the light of new hope and faith in His Goodness, along with assurance that He still has good plans for us.
Yep, every single follower of Christ I know hasn't always dealt with grief or hard situations 100% honoring to God. I find it realistic showing Thomas in this way. He wasn't perfect either, and yes he ended up getting martyred for his faith in Jesus, just like most of them. But, if Peter can be shown as grieving incorrectly, why can't Thomas grieve imperfectly too? None of us grieve completely giving God glory.
I love your comments and insights! I think one of the differences not being considered is - they were not yet filled with the Holy Spirit which was promised them. While Jesus was on trial, Peter denied Him three times! At the ascension, Jesus told them to go and wait for the Father's promise (Acts 1:4) It was not until then that Peter had the courage to stand up in front of a great multitude and preach the Gospel. I think that your closing comments are correct - now that we have the promise of the Holy Spirit - we can expect disciples to approach life's struggles differently. We need to give that grace to Thomas in this story. I think Dallas' portrayal is spot on.
Sometimes people on the spectrum are UNABLE to believe in or imagine something until it’s in front of them. Their brains are wired differently and different is not weird, it’s just different (‘Get used to different.’) I’m pretty sure his selection of 12 disciples/apostles would have included a broad covering of the human race in order to be relatable & this is what Dallas & writers are drawing & teasing out of the rich mix of possibilities. ❤
I agree with what Brandon said at the end of this episode about how, in the novel, Thomas is portrayed as turning to alcohol rather than to Jesus in his time of grief. I feel that Jerry Jenkins did a disservice to Thomas by his fictitious suggestion that Thomas got drunk. Yes, this is a story and you can portray any fictitious character any way you want but, Thomas was a real person, an apostle of Jesus Christ who died a martyr for Christ and more care and respect should be taken when making up things about him. I just think that this particular made up story line was a mistake.
@@marianspencer3007less “puritans” in church! Need to put scripture into context We don’t have the water problem they had! Wine is a mocker, and strong drink is raging and whoever is deceived thereby is not wise!
To despair is to turn away from God. We all have terrible moments where we wonder if God is listening, but as long as we are talking to him through this process, HE brings us through. Often its simply realising that there are others that are suffering similar or far worse than what we are grieving or struggling through helps us see, once again our many blessings 🙏
It breaks my heart that people would rather debate about a fictional character than go directly to God with any questions they have. He wants relationship with us individually and yet we'd rather talk to each other about Him or argue about whether He is being portrayed correctly. Seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Thank you to everyone working on the Chosen project. Your work has meant so much to so many. I hope you are never discouraged by the repeated inquiries. Jesus would travel great distances to reach the one person in a crowd who wanted Him and those people are the people God will use your show to reach. The only One you ever need to focus on appeasing is God.
We have been looking at Thomas’s reaction to Ramah’s death…. But what I have been thinking about is the impact this event may have had on Peter, James, and John, who KNOW that Jesus did raise Jairus’s daughter… they saw it for themselves. The others, including Thomas, have only seen Jesus heal…
What I am seeing here with Ramah and Thomas, is that people are turning it into a stumbling stone, for future episodes. I just hope people are not losing their faith over this situation.
Not losing my faith in the Bible or Jesus at all my faith that the chosen is going to do this right is definitely stumbling. Adding things here or there it's just like people get with the Lord of the rings. You don't need to invent stuff that never actually happened you just need to fill in the parts that won't make sense.
I think it was very important like when Simon and Eden lost the baby and Little James being told he could get healed and it would be more of an example to still have faith while waiting, that people see that even if a disciple or follower it doesn't mean you won't be free of the sorrow or struggles of the world, but will get the strength to go on. Also that there is good that come from it. I learned this when I lost a baby. I remember being like Simon and Thomas but then one day our pastor got news of a daughter of a deacon had lost a baby. The pastor came to me and said he had not experienced this so he would not be able to be that example or help her through so I went with him to visit this gal. From then on I understood why as a Christian sometimes we can experience loss but can be an example of fai/h even in suffering for those that either do not know Him or those that think being a Christian means nothing will ever go wrong.
Yeah I am still hoping that's what's happening. He said "it's not her time" when she died, which is strange. Plus in the Bible how would they have known the people had been dead unless it was people they knew?
In the episode where they’re walking while doing shiva for John. Ramah & Thomas approach Jesus…after Jesus “I’m not here to give peace” Thomas basically says hey we choose you So we’re all good right You’ll marry us She left her father In other words, we’ll follow you but we want what we want for doing it. Yeah that’s what I got!
I’m wondering… saints were raised, right? Like during the resurrection or the ascension our Savior… lemme go read the Bible… it’ll be really cool if this what would help set this up… I can’t wait to watch the best seasons!!!
J’apprécie que vous postiez ces tables rondes, car sur l’App les sous-titres ne font pas disponibles en français et de fait, je n’ai pas pu les écouter. Merci infiniment pour votre travail. 🙏
No one is claiming that Thomas's behavior in the latter parts of Season Four is correct. I would agree with you that Thomas doesn't always handle his grief appropriately or as he should. Where I'd disagree is with the notion that because he's around someone he believes is the Messiah, he would act differently. Remember...there are MANY things that disciples said and did, pre-crucifixion, that in retrospect weren't "appropriate." They didn't fully understand things. And Jesus rebuked them sometimes, lovingly corrected them in others. As you see in Season Four, other disciples confront Thomas on his behavior--Peter does at the marketplace ("it is wrong to not accept the answer"), John does on their journey to Jerusalem, and several of them do at Lazarus's house after the raising, which came after Jesus lovingly told him it would eventually make sense.
Yes, Dallas!!! 100% agree. Peter will deny Jesus three times in a later season after all these things happen, and will have to face the consequences of it.
As I've rewatched season 4, I've developed a mindset that the gospels were written initially to explain that "this Man, Jesus, is God" because they could all see he that he was a man. The Chosen explains that "this God, Jesus, was a Man." Because we are so distant from him as a human, that it's easy to read about the miracles and see He is God, but it can be difficult to understand His humanity.
In the throws if our grief journeys we can spiral into the depths even as a believer. Thomas' reach out to Jesus showed he was open to Jesus, yet still his grief was overarching. Grief can't be automatically turned off as he had to go through the process. Everyone needs grace and compassion as they process. Healing cant be rushed. Through his grief, he will be changed, become stronger and make an impact in time.
I didn't like that she died. I thought she and Thomas were so good together. Dallas had a good reason to write it this way. It is so hard to see Thomas grieving so much.
I think the Thomas storyline is very realistic. I’ve been there and so have many others who have been through painful and traumatic things in their life and sometimes blame God or feel betrayed by God. I went down a pretty dark path for a while bc of things. It’s relatable and I appreciate the chosen shows that. I don’t think there’s a right way to mourn and yea we all obviously do things that Jesus doesn’t want us to do. Plus they still didn’t even know the full truth of what we know today.
I’ve always heard, “Doubting Thomas” however I didn’t believe he was in doubt, I believe he was at a place where he wanted to see Jesus Himself and not just go by what the other disciples were saying. I don’t believe Moses was in doubt when he told God, “I won’t go unless Your presence goes with us” I just think Thomas wanted to see Jesus for Himself for his relationship that he had with Jesus. And I believe we are all like that.
The situation should never taken place on The Chosen as Ramah is not a Biblical person and involving such a emotional situation with a with a very Biblical Apostle and carrying it on and on was in my opinion was not good judgement.
You must be a time traveler to know exactly how things went back in biblical times… there was other followers of Jesus outside of his 12 and for Ramah to be in this scenario is something not written in the Bible but can’t fault these writers for adding Hollywood to it….if it was word for word, scripture by scripture, than it would be a totally different film we are even commenting about
Not a time traveler man we're just trying to stick with the idea and spirit of the Bible. I don't think any of us care that she existed or even that they might even get married even though that wouldn't be biblical. But to make her die make Thomas go through it and then to have Jesus not do nothing about it is so anti-biblical it's very difficult for those of us who love the Bible to get over. @@drummer3249
It depicts the very real fact that, just because you are a faithful Disciple of Jesus, is not a major buffer from bad things happening to you and your family. This was also shown in Simon & Eden’s loss of a child. Same thing. We do not know the Father's way of deciding how & when who dies or is healed. Even priests have family members pass. Ramah’s passing Shows us this in a *TV Show*…
It’s interesting seeing the reaction to characters not acting “correctly”(Thomas in grief, Peter taking a few days to forgive Matthew, when Mary left after being triggered). I don’t usually consume Christian content because I find it boring and cringe- and now I realise why. Humans are complicated and emotional and the arts helps explore this. The Chosen is not just exploring the Gospel story, but the ideas of the relationship with God and how we live. Maybe I’m just defensive because there is some media I actually like and would recommend.
The Bible includes the “heroes” and characters struggling, failing and not living the life and example they should be as the chosen. That’s part of the beauty of God’s grace and mercy. Just because they were disciples doesn’t mean they would react the way we should before God. God meets us where we are, even when we fail to live to His standards and how we should react.
I think that perhaps you are too young yet to have lived through the despair of friends who, even in deep faith, cannot pass a level of grief close to despair eventhough the Bible says that that is NOT "the way" TO GO, and they know that. The other is that Thomas did not have "the Bible" as we know it today, and did not necessarily have the knowledge that you have. I really think you are giving Thomas and perhaps the other apostles to much credit for their time, especially before the Resurrection. He has come to follow Jesus, who we know as Christ - but we do not know, if pressed, what Thomas would have said if Jesus had asked him "who do YOU say that I am". Someone with special gifts of healing who talks in riddles and heals some but not all, and doesn't/can't explain why.
Perhaps Thomas is having to process the grief of losing his father as well as losing Ramah. Feeling overwhelmed by the past and present. I've spent some time serving as a co-coordinator of Grief Share groups and no two people process their grief in the same way. Even those who hold on to a deep faith struggle to understand why God would allow the loss of a loved one, especially someone young.
Well Thomas was angry with Jesus for not helping Ramah, so I don't think he would be grieving the way he should have because he was stuck in the anger phase of grief.
Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests be sad while the groom is with them? The time will come when the groom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast. (Matthew 9:15) When Jesus was on Earth, it was a time of celebration. He revived everyone in his path. No deaths. The Chosen's portrayal of Jesus is very different from the real Jesus. Also, Paul later said that all apostles were married. Why do you want to kill Thomas's future wife? Do you want to promote the Catholic belief of no married leaders?
Thomas was the apostle who doesn’t believe the resurrection of Jesus until Jesus appears to them and told Him until I put my hands 🙌 inside your bunds and in the scar I won’t believe, Jesus says to him, because you see it, you believe!!! He had locks of faith ❤🙏🙏🙏
I'm through with the show. It's not Biblically correct and Dallas doesn't care that it isn't Biblically correct. It's just a TV show to him. I find the life of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and His disciples much more important than Dallas makes it. God's Word is the Truth, not to be mixed with fictional nonsense.
We bring people back to life today, through God's provided medical knowledge "CPR" and other medicines which would seem like a miracle 2,000 years ago.
They just told you in this video that they don’t mention every single thing that happened in the Bible. The Chosen creates a story and fills in those lines. And exactly like what someone else said, they should be reading their Bible bc this is a tv show for entertainment.
Imagine being God, Jesus, and bringing about a very specific outcome, the crucifixion of Jesus, but all the humans have free will. Jesus had to be tortured and die on the cross, and in 3 days be resurrected, and according to scripture, to make such an impression so that even today we still at least know about him. It was all orchestrated, as he says about letting Lazarus die, so that He could show the glory of God! HOW DO YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU!!! So they can be saved to eternal life?
I don't agree that Jesus "doesn't comfort" anyone of his followers, whether in his worldly ministry or modern followers. Yes, I can experience his comfort in my times of grief, but more often, it is those that God brings into my life that are useful for that comfort.
I mean they already tried to show us the grief thing with Peter and his wife having a miscarriage and while that was bad enough now you actually have a character who was supposed to marry a disciple die? How much do you think you need to add to the story of Jesus Christ????? You don't think the Bible gave us enough information?????
I'm going to be honest and say that I don't completely 100% honor Jesus daily. We are all learning how to follow Him more deeply, every single one of us. I still struggle with addiction and healing from my past. There's a ton of trauma and healing from that is really hard. I could also have a mental disorder which makes controlling my thoughts extremely difficult. I might be going to a psychologist to hopefully get a diagnosis. I'm having a very tough time processing everything and my emotions and I am seeing a therapist as well. Some people have just been through a ton of stuff and need deeper healing than others. I know God will see me through!
none of us do! that's not the point I'm trying to make here. The bigger thing I tend to have issue with is that Thomas in scripture doesn't show any dissension like this, in fact there's evidence for the opposite. But all of us sin, Read Galatians Chapter 2 as it talk about how we are saved not by what we do, but who we believe in ( christ). Another passage I love is " If you love me, you will obey my commandments". This is Jesus letting us know that if we put him first, our natural instincts will shift from sinful to Godly. As always we're praying for you and the struggles you're going through now.
Brandon while i appreciate ur comments about grieving in a way that is honouring to God, i dont think u have really had loss. Imagine for a minute, if the Lord forbid, u were to lose ur dear wife, what that process wld look like. Maybe u wld take it to the edge.
There was no Ramah's death, this is just a made up story with no biblical basis. Terrible idea to add a story like this to the Chosen! Making Jesus look sniveling and confused is another bad idea. The Bible is what God revealed to his people, no need to add any stories to it. Season 4 is horrible. Stick to the text.👎
You have no idea how triggered I am with all this "Thomas should grieve in a way that honors God." We focus on what Job said at the beginning of his trial. But if we look at the whole book, he even cursed the day he was born and questioned God openly. Then God came and guess who blessed God's heart, not his religiously-speaking friends but the complaining Job. Job was honest. He poured his pain before God. We need to stop judging people because when they are grieving, they are already dealing with a big loss. As a pastor mourning the death of my husband, I was the victim not only of satan stealing his life, but of Christians preaching to me about the "right way" to grieve. Church. Stop. And although i know Rhema's death and Thomas actions are fictional, I find your comments a bit too familiar to what I have experienced from the body of Christ in the last 3 years. The people of God need to stop hurting their fallen. I am glad Jesus wept. And he is okay with us weeping too.
So sorry to hear about your loss absolutely. I pray God continues to give you peace and guidance. Though, I think you missed my point slightly here. Thomas is (first off a fictional version in the chosen) in a place where he is grieving which is fine, but to do so by hurting those around him, and siloing himself is not honoring to God. My biggest point is not whether this is right or wrong, my point is that there is evidence of Thomas doing the complete opposite of this in scripture. Thomas speaks 4 times that we see, the first two he is fervently following Jesus and asking questions on how to follow him better. The last two he is concerned that the other disciples are wrong and questioning, then ultimately declaring Jesus as God. Nowhere in scripture do we see Thomas act in this way. I’m not saying it’s impossible in the human experience.
I've thought this through many, many times. Ramah was not a biblical person. And what Thomas went through is not biblical either. Based on what is in the NT and what we have seen in The Chosen, I believe Jesus would have healed her and brought her back. It doesn't make sense why he would not. I love the Chosen and if I had a critique, it would be her death.
My problem is just like with people that are Lord of the rings fans The Hobbit fans and now with the rings of power. I don't need you to change the story and go away from Canon. I need you to keep it as close to the word of God as possible. It is very dangerous when you add and take away and by adding such serious situations you are taking away from the feelings of the Bible and adding feelings in which to me is so dangerous.
As i think about your criticism over the years, it seems to me you take to most exception when the Apostles do not act in a way you think they should. I wonder if you have a preference for them to stay in the stained glass and only demonstrate how to act; and take exception when The Chosen takes them out of the stained glass, makes them human, and uses them as an example of how not to act?
You keep saying this is too far in the story line for an Apostle to get drunk and deal with a death poorly. In Acts, which is even further in the storyline, we have the major apostles who believed Jesus is the messiah literally frozen by the death of Jesus. It takes them forever to finally accept what happened and the implications. I don't see anything wrong with how Thomas is acting.
Wait did the apostles get drunk when Jesus died though? I'm not saying they needed to be perfect, I'm saying That Thomas Specifically seems to be very far off from where we see him in scripture.
@@TheChosenSleuthI think at that point their flesh was under subjection esp at the shock of Jesus’ brutal death. But they were renewed as he appeared to them. Their “failures” were not along the same lines of struggle but rather with new things they had to learn (ie: gentile laws, order, functioning in supporting large crowds). We all struggle but we shouldn’t go back to baby steps every time.
Man like I want the chosen to be so good at representing the Bible but what the heck! You're going to tell me that Jesus told somebody that he was going to approve of their wedding and on top of that it's someone that's going to marry a disciple and she dies and Jesus does nothing about it........... That's crazy so not only did you write in a storyline and add to the Bible but you made it more impactful than everything that Jesus did during the season? That doesn't come off as very very wrong to everybody who claims to be a christian?
Frankly, her character should never have existed. Now we’re having to watch him go through yet another unnecessary character arc. They easily could have used two side characters to tell this story, not one of the disciples. I’m really not a fan of so many of them backsliding when the Gospels never say anything about them doing so, Peter losing his child, etc.. I like the show, but sheesh, at least try to be honest with these people who actually existed.
Also these disciples were in fact human beings that travelled with Jesus for 3 years. Are you really saying that you think the disciples didn't have challenging life events happening in their lives during this time. These were twelve young men that were on the front lines with Jesus who were being discipled. You don't think the enemy was doing everything he could to prevent them from fulfilling God's plan for their lives, the same way he does with Christians today. You think Jesus kept them from all trials and difficulties during those 3 years. Peters wife maybe didn't have a miscarriage, Thomas maybe didn't have a fiancé that was killed by a Roman but to think they didn't have issues in their personal lives that challenged them and their faith in Jesus at times makes no sense whatsoever. One of the main points of the show is to remind us that they're not just characters in a story, or figures in a stainless window. They were real people living real human lives with strengths and weaknesses and they would all have had friends and family. The fact Jesus tells them they will have trials and tribulations says a lot, about the fact their lives would be really difficult at times, just like ours can be. Also the problems shown are ones that would I imagine be typical of the realities of life at the time. Infant mortality issues and dealing with the brutality of Rome.
iI think that peter and eden losing their child worked out more well than ramah dying. i get where you’re coming from though but i do think that these things really remind us that the disciples were human and faced challenges. even though these events didn’t happen, I think we as viewers can sometimes relate to these characters.
@@LoulizabethThey were with him for 70 weeks (something else the show gets wrong), and the Gospels never say if they backslid during that tune other than when Yeshua was arrested. It’s important because the disciples are recorded as loyal up until it mattered.
You know very little about the apostles personal lives so it is very presumptuous of you to assume they didn't struggle with issues like we do today outside of persecution for their faith.
So Dallas wants to mingle fact with fiction, then the least he could do is not make Jesus out to be a divine leader without prophetic vision. I don’t believe for one minute that the Jesus of the Bible would stand by in this scenario and allow Remah to die. There is no round table discussion that will convince me that more harm than good was done in portraying Jesus in this way. The raising of Lazarus, that was the story! But it was overshadowed by a made-up character’s death.
this is fiction...man made drama...read the gospel and life of the saints for inspiration why discuss what people put together to express what they thought God was trying to say (oh that He had a better sense of drama and storytelling) read the church fathers and what is happening to present day christians if you want drama. God's story is perfect man does not need to add to it to make it more ... entertaining ...
Hey! I just noticed that Dallas in reference to I think Lazarus, or even if Thomas says the (approximate) line "His brothers will carry him through this". This is Dallas quoting a line in the Chosen where he uses the word "brothers", and as far as I know Dallas is not speaking about biological brothers. AND this brings me back to the line about Jesus "brothers". Maybe Dallas has come to realize that they don't have to be Jesus'biological brothers! LOL
@@kronosdorma With Joseph her husband? Some women could not bear children and they survived. Elizabeth before John the Baptist in her old age. But also as Dallas believes In Jesus' brothers, , I just thought that Dallas very casually said "brothers wil carry him" in a way that I doubt he thought "oh I have to make sure not to offend the Catholics" all before he said the line, and used the word "brothers".
We are being hard with Thomas, he is not allowing anything, he is hurt…the fact that he continues following is evidence of his faith, he just needs to heal.
THen there's Mary Magdalene, Ramah was like a little sister to her
Exactly! Don’t we all get have time where we are like Thomas?
I agree about being too hard on Thomas. Didn’t Jesus say to Andrew in the episode where they are sitting shiva for John…”everyone mourns differently”? Thomas right now is holding on to what little faith he has and is “staying with Jesus” just as Ramah asked him to. He will eventually make his way thru. I like this storyline because it is relatable and helpful to others who are struggling in the same way.
@@joannconway8919 Yep. I have a close friend who lost his dad to cancer last year. A lot of what Thomas said and did is very similar to how my friend behaved. Was it dishonoring to God? Some of it yeah, but he's grown through it. He's a much different person now than last year, which has been amazing to see! But, the way they're showing Thomas is I think a smart lead up to him eventually being the only one to doubt that Jesus is actually risen and there with them again. It does make sense, at least to me.
I never said Thomas should be perfect. I’m saying that the biblical evidence shows the opposite from Thomas.
Many people think that “you should get on with your life” -- grief is different for everyone!!! I’m glad the Chosen is showing-IT taking time…. because it does!!!!! My husband was killed suddenly and unexpectedly. We had a 1 year old and I was 3 months pregnant. It was years before I become myself again. Bravo….the Chosen … showing Simon handling IT all wrong-then Thomas. -- and they were walking with the Lord Jesus, day to day. Our humanity shows how we need Jesus to lift us up out of --the sinking sand.
what if Thomas' storyline in the Chosen isn't over yet? What if Dallas is actually creating a scenario for Thomas whereby when bad things happen he doesn't immediately go to the Lord because so many people nowadays do the same exact thing? Maybe Dallas is writing to show people how to come back to the Lord after that? It's hard to judge a story that's not over yet. this show is really meant to help people through their grief today, not to depict how some would like to see Thomas "correctly" deal with grief.
Very well said, and you are correct. :)
@@DallasJenkinsOfficial Awesome writing, Dallas! i'm deeply grateful to you for creating this series. It has definitely changed my life! God bless you.
I agree! To think that ANY of the apostles would have been able to react ‘correctly’ in this proposed situation is a mistake, to my mind. They were already shaken by the danger that was growing, already trying to overcome their presumptions of what the Messiah would be and would do. Jesus just didn’t do anything the way they thought He would. I find the story line and reactions totally plausible.
Debate Raman’s death? WHY??? She’s a completely fictional character, used as a plot device… LOL
I love the Bible Round Tables. It really shows how Dallas, Ryan, and Tyler pray and seek the Lord as they write these scripts. The round tables give a perspective from three different gentlemen that really blesses me.
Brandon, I hope that you take this with love and I respect your opinions and I really enjoy your channel, but everyone grieves in a different way. And I believe that Jesus understands this. I went into a deep depression and I grieved for 17 years when my husband died and yet I still loved and followed Jesus with all of my heart and all my soul. Also, just because Thomas was an apostle, he was just human just like you and me!
Thomas is helping alot of people by the way he is grieving because that is how many of us grieve!
I’ll be here for your livestream Sunday!!☺️Love the chosen and you analyzing every detail (no seriously I do)
There are times that I experienced trauma in my life and I have shared this with other Christians. An answer that I have gotten is, "God saw everything that you were going through". At first my attitude was like "What!!!" You're telling me that, this terrible thing happened while God was watching the whole time??" This wasn't comforting at first. Since I have gotten older and I understand this much better than when I was younger. But I think that I understand how Thomas is reacting for these episodes.
Sorry missed your live. I'm using Melvin phone. I received my shirt today thanks looks great. Della Warren here
Re Thomas's reaction to his grief about Ramah not being a good example of how a Christian should deal with grief. I can't help but think that's the point. Peter's attitude towards the inclusion of gentiles is something that yo-yos a lot in Scripture. God has to deal with him multiple times both directly and also through Paul in calling him out for acting contrary to God's newly revealed teaching on this. Even to the point that Peter is actually leading others badly away from because of his actions and attitudes because of v his behaviour.
Also when Paul and Barnubus disagree strongly about John Mark that's hardly them being good examples of leadership and resolving differences. These disciples were not perfect in how they followed Jesus. Hey we're about to see Peter deny he knows Jesus. I do think we're so used to see them in Sunday school stories and Bible stories and demons that we forget how human and flawed they would have been. Is Thomas getting drunk the best way of him dealing with his grief no. But have Christians had this kind of reactions and God has worked through it and brought them through it and been able to use them even more. Not saying it makes their behaviour and reaction okay but I guess I view it as a a Romans 8:28 kind of situation.
Hope this makes some kind of sense and isn't too waffily
I agree with you on this one!
Live these roundtable talks.
Grief is a very personal journey. In my experience, regardless of faith and what the Bible tells us to do, we can plunge into the type of despair which to others can seem contrary to living as a Christian. Yet God is Faithful. He knows His own children. He can and does bring us out of the darkness into the light of new hope and faith in His Goodness, along with assurance that He still has good plans for us.
Yep, every single follower of Christ I know hasn't always dealt with grief or hard situations 100% honoring to God. I find it realistic showing Thomas in this way. He wasn't perfect either, and yes he ended up getting martyred for his faith in Jesus, just like most of them. But, if Peter can be shown as grieving incorrectly, why can't Thomas grieve imperfectly too? None of us grieve completely giving God glory.
Yes I agree
I love your comments and insights! I think one of the differences not being considered is - they were not yet filled with the Holy Spirit which was promised them. While Jesus was on trial, Peter denied Him three times! At the ascension, Jesus told them to go and wait for the Father's promise (Acts 1:4) It was not until then that Peter had the courage to stand up in front of a great multitude and preach the Gospel. I think that your closing comments are correct - now that we have the promise of the Holy Spirit - we can expect disciples to approach life's struggles differently. We need to give that grace to Thomas in this story. I think Dallas' portrayal is spot on.
Thomas in the Bible had a hard time believing after the death of Jesus. When Jesus appeared to the disciples he had to touch to believe.
Sometimes people on the spectrum are UNABLE to believe in or imagine something until it’s in front of them. Their brains are wired differently and different is not weird, it’s just different (‘Get used to different.’) I’m pretty sure his selection of 12 disciples/apostles would have included a broad covering of the human race in order to be relatable & this is what Dallas & writers are drawing & teasing out of the rich mix of possibilities. ❤
@@tiffcat1100cool theory. But what about Judas?
Christians today suffer tremendously for their faith who struggle just like Thomas.
I agree with what Brandon said at the end of this episode about how, in the novel, Thomas is portrayed as turning to alcohol rather than to Jesus in his time of grief. I feel that Jerry Jenkins did a disservice to Thomas by his fictitious suggestion that Thomas got drunk. Yes, this is a story and you can portray any fictitious character any way you want but, Thomas was a real person, an apostle of Jesus Christ who died a martyr for Christ and more care and respect should be taken when making up things about him. I just think that this particular made up story line was a mistake.
Absolutely
Don't forget scripture - "wine for the stomach and hard drink for a calamity"! We need less puritans in the church.
@@marianspencer3007less “puritans” in church! Need to put scripture into context
We don’t have the water problem they had!
Wine is a mocker, and strong drink is raging and whoever is deceived thereby is not wise!
To despair is to turn away from God.
We all have terrible moments where we wonder if God is listening, but as long as we are talking to him through this process, HE brings us through.
Often its simply realising that there are others that are suffering similar or far worse than what we are grieving or struggling through helps us see, once again our many blessings 🙏
18:22 another excellent point about grief, Brandon 😊
It breaks my heart that people would rather debate about a fictional character than go directly to God with any questions they have. He wants relationship with us individually and yet we'd rather talk to each other about Him or argue about whether He is being portrayed correctly. Seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Thank you to everyone working on the Chosen project. Your work has meant so much to so many. I hope you are never discouraged by the repeated inquiries. Jesus would travel great distances to reach the one person in a crowd who wanted Him and those people are the people God will use your show to reach. The only One you ever need to focus on appeasing is God.
Love your channel brother thank you
Thanks 😊
We have been looking at Thomas’s reaction to Ramah’s death…. But what I have been thinking about is the impact this event may have had on Peter, James, and John, who KNOW that Jesus did raise Jairus’s daughter… they saw it for themselves. The others, including Thomas, have only seen Jesus heal…
What I am seeing here with Ramah and Thomas, is that people are turning it into a stumbling stone, for future episodes. I just hope people are not losing their faith over this situation.
Not losing my faith in the Bible or Jesus at all my faith that the chosen is going to do this right is definitely stumbling. Adding things here or there it's just like people get with the Lord of the rings. You don't need to invent stuff that never actually happened you just need to fill in the parts that won't make sense.
I think it was very important like when Simon and Eden lost the baby and Little James being told he could get healed and it would be more of an example to still have faith while waiting, that people see that even if a disciple or follower it doesn't mean you won't be free of the sorrow or struggles of the world, but will get the strength to go on. Also that there is good that come from it. I learned this when I lost a baby. I remember being like Simon and Thomas but then one day our pastor got news of a daughter of a deacon had lost a baby. The pastor came to me and said he had not experienced this so he would not be able to be that example or help her through so I went with him to visit this gal. From then on I understood why as a Christian sometimes we can experience loss but can be an example of fai/h even in suffering for those that either do not know Him or those that think being a Christian means nothing will ever go wrong.
I wish this Bible Roundtable was longer, though. I think they could have dug a little deeper
When Jesus arose from the grave, dead people were seen walking around. It would be cool if Ramah was one of them. ❤
I had never heard this, can you specify where this is found? Thx!
@@debraolson4358 Matthew 27:51-53
@@papercoyote3331 Thanks so much!
Yeah I am still hoping that's what's happening. He said "it's not her time" when she died, which is strange. Plus in the Bible how would they have known the people had been dead unless it was people they knew?
@@debraolson4358 This is told to us by Matthew in his gospel.
Matthew 27: 52-53
I'm thinking there is something meaningful when Thomas buried the sundial. He buried Ramah.
Rabbi Sobel always brings such rich insights. I really really enjoy how he adds to what we belive as modern day disciples of Jesus the Christ
In the episode where they’re walking while doing shiva for John. Ramah & Thomas approach Jesus…after Jesus “I’m not here to give peace”
Thomas basically says hey we choose you
So we’re all good right
You’ll marry us
She left her father
In other words, we’ll follow you but we want what we want for doing it.
Yeah that’s what I got!
I’m wondering… saints were raised, right? Like during the resurrection or the ascension our Savior… lemme go read the Bible… it’ll be really cool if this what would help set this up… I can’t wait to watch the best seasons!!!
I meant to watch the rest of the seasons
Love these roundtables. I am evangelical but I think Father Guffey is precious!
J’apprécie que vous postiez ces tables rondes, car sur l’App les sous-titres ne font pas disponibles en français et de fait, je n’ai pas pu les écouter. Merci infiniment pour votre travail. 🙏
No one is claiming that Thomas's behavior in the latter parts of Season Four is correct. I would agree with you that Thomas doesn't always handle his grief appropriately or as he should. Where I'd disagree is with the notion that because he's around someone he believes is the Messiah, he would act differently. Remember...there are MANY things that disciples said and did, pre-crucifixion, that in retrospect weren't "appropriate." They didn't fully understand things. And Jesus rebuked them sometimes, lovingly corrected them in others.
As you see in Season Four, other disciples confront Thomas on his behavior--Peter does at the marketplace ("it is wrong to not accept the answer"), John does on their journey to Jerusalem, and several of them do at Lazarus's house after the raising, which came after Jesus lovingly told him it would eventually make sense.
Yes, Dallas!!! 100% agree. Peter will deny Jesus three times in a later season after all these things happen, and will have to face the consequences of it.
I think you are right, Brandon, Thomas is very mad with Jesus for not raising Rhama! He is very hurt and doesn't understand why Jesus didn't heal her!
As I've rewatched season 4, I've developed a mindset that the gospels were written initially to explain that "this Man, Jesus, is God" because they could all see he that he was a man. The Chosen explains that "this God, Jesus, was a Man." Because we are so distant from him as a human, that it's easy to read about the miracles and see He is God, but it can be difficult to understand His humanity.
Why wouldn't Thomas go to Jesus and simply ask where ramah is and will he be with her again?
In the throws if our grief journeys we can spiral into the depths even as a believer. Thomas' reach out to Jesus showed he was open to Jesus, yet still his grief was overarching. Grief can't be automatically turned off as he had to go through the process. Everyone needs grace and compassion as they process. Healing cant be rushed. Through his grief, he will be changed, become stronger and make an impact in time.
8:14 excellent point, Brandon 😊
Hello Brandon.Della Warren here
Jesus did not raise his own earthy father Joseph. I expect he experienced grief and acceptance of his heavenly Father’s will.
I didn't like that she died. I thought she and Thomas were so good together. Dallas had a good reason to write it this way. It is so hard to see Thomas grieving so much.
I think the Thomas storyline is very realistic. I’ve been there and so have many others who have been through painful and traumatic things in their life and sometimes blame God or feel betrayed by God. I went down a pretty dark path for a while bc of things. It’s relatable and I appreciate the chosen shows that. I don’t think there’s a right way to mourn and yea we all obviously do things that Jesus doesn’t want us to do. Plus they still didn’t even know the full truth of what we know today.
I do not believe Thomas went out and got drunk...I think that's painting Thomas's emotions as being more extreme than they are in the scriptures.
I’ve always heard, “Doubting Thomas” however I didn’t believe he was in doubt, I believe he was at a place where he wanted to see Jesus Himself and not just go by what the other disciples were saying. I don’t believe Moses was in doubt when he told God, “I won’t go unless Your presence goes with us” I just think Thomas wanted to see Jesus for Himself for his relationship that he had with Jesus. And I believe we are all like that.
I tend to agree, I’m sure there was an element of doubt, but I don’t think it was necessarily in Jesus.
Do you think Quintus is being set up to become Longinus the Roman soldier who slew Jesus Christ at the cross? Love the show
Besides being a great storyteller, Dallas also has a knack for creating controversy.
I think Rabbi Jason put it in a nutshell!!
The situation should never taken place on The Chosen as Ramah is not a Biblical person and involving such a emotional situation with a with a very Biblical Apostle and carrying it on and on was in my opinion was not good judgement.
I agree 💯%.
You must be a time traveler to know exactly how things went back in biblical times… there was other followers of Jesus outside of his 12 and for Ramah to be in this scenario is something not written in the Bible but can’t fault these writers for adding Hollywood to it….if it was word for word, scripture by scripture, than it would be a totally different film we are even commenting about
Not a time traveler man we're just trying to stick with the idea and spirit of the Bible. I don't think any of us care that she existed or even that they might even get married even though that wouldn't be biblical. But to make her die make Thomas go through it and then to have Jesus not do nothing about it is so anti-biblical it's very difficult for those of us who love the Bible to get over. @@drummer3249
It depicts the very real fact that, just because you are a faithful Disciple of Jesus, is not a major buffer from bad things happening to you and your family.
This was also shown in Simon & Eden’s loss of a child. Same thing.
We do not know the Father's way of deciding how & when who dies or is healed. Even priests have family members pass.
Ramah’s passing Shows us this in a *TV Show*…
It’s interesting seeing the reaction to characters not acting “correctly”(Thomas in grief, Peter taking a few days to forgive Matthew, when Mary left after being triggered). I don’t usually consume Christian content because I find it boring and cringe- and now I realise why. Humans are complicated and emotional and the arts helps explore this. The Chosen is not just exploring the Gospel story, but the ideas of the relationship with God and how we live.
Maybe I’m just defensive because there is some media I actually like and would recommend.
The Bible includes the “heroes” and characters struggling, failing and not living the life and example they should be as the chosen. That’s part of the beauty of God’s grace and mercy. Just because they were disciples doesn’t mean they would react the way we should before God. God meets us where we are, even when we fail to live to His standards and how we should react.
Hi Brandon
I think that perhaps you are too young yet to have lived through the despair of friends who, even in deep faith, cannot pass a level of grief close to despair eventhough the Bible says that that is NOT "the way" TO GO, and they know that. The other is that Thomas did not have "the Bible" as we know it today, and did not necessarily have the knowledge that you have. I really think you are giving Thomas and perhaps the other apostles to much credit for their time, especially before the Resurrection. He has come to follow Jesus, who we know as Christ - but we do not know, if pressed, what Thomas would have said if Jesus had asked him "who do YOU say that I am". Someone with special gifts of healing who talks in riddles and heals some but not all, and doesn't/can't explain why.
We are all works in progress & so were the disciples, apostles & followers of Jesus; they didn’t even have the full(er) picture which we have today ❤
Perhaps Thomas is having to process the grief of losing his father as well as losing Ramah. Feeling overwhelmed by the past and present. I've spent some time serving as a co-coordinator of Grief Share groups and no two people process their grief in the same way. Even those who hold on to a deep faith struggle to understand why God would allow the loss of a loved one, especially someone young.
Well Thomas was angry with Jesus for not helping Ramah, so I don't think he would be grieving the way he should have because he was stuck in the anger phase of grief.
Maybe not stuck but experiencing that phase of grief... there is no right or wrong way to go through the journey to grief?
Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests be sad while the groom is with them? The time will come when the groom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast. (Matthew 9:15)
When Jesus was on Earth, it was a time of celebration. He revived everyone in his path. No deaths.
The Chosen's portrayal of Jesus is very different from the real Jesus.
Also, Paul later said that all apostles were married. Why do you want to kill Thomas's future wife? Do you want to promote the Catholic belief of no married leaders?
He went to his earthly Fathers funeral!
Thomas was the apostle who doesn’t believe the resurrection of Jesus until Jesus appears to them and told Him until I put my hands 🙌 inside your bunds and in the scar I won’t believe, Jesus says to him, because you see it, you believe!!! He had locks of faith ❤🙏🙏🙏
He is known as Doubting Thomas.
I'm through with the show. It's not Biblically correct and Dallas doesn't care that it isn't Biblically correct. It's just a TV show to him. I find the life of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and His disciples much more important than Dallas makes it. God's Word is the Truth, not to be mixed with fictional nonsense.
We bring people back to life today, through God's provided medical knowledge "CPR" and other medicines which would seem like a miracle 2,000 years ago.
Main issue is that it is fictional and people will think this really happened
Not if they read their Bible
They just told you in this video that they don’t mention every single thing that happened in the Bible. The Chosen creates a story and fills in those lines. And exactly like what someone else said, they should be reading their Bible bc this is a tv show for entertainment.
The Bible does say that Jesus went into a cave to relieve himself
Imagine being God, Jesus, and bringing about a very specific outcome, the crucifixion of Jesus, but all the humans have free will.
Jesus had to be tortured and die on the cross, and in 3 days be resurrected, and according to scripture, to make such an impression so that even today we still at least know about him.
It was all orchestrated, as he says about letting Lazarus die, so that He could show the glory of God!
HOW DO YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU!!!
So they can be saved to eternal life?
I don't agree that Jesus "doesn't comfort" anyone of his followers, whether in his worldly ministry or modern followers. Yes, I can experience his comfort in my times of grief, but more often, it is those that God brings into my life that are useful for that comfort.
Matthew 27:52, 53
She could be back 😮
I mean they already tried to show us the grief thing with Peter and his wife having a miscarriage and while that was bad enough now you actually have a character who was supposed to marry a disciple die? How much do you think you need to add to the story of Jesus Christ????? You don't think the Bible gave us enough information?????
I'm going to be honest and say that I don't completely 100% honor Jesus daily. We are all learning how to follow Him more deeply, every single one of us. I still struggle with addiction and healing from my past. There's a ton of trauma and healing from that is really hard. I could also have a mental disorder which makes controlling my thoughts extremely difficult. I might be going to a psychologist to hopefully get a diagnosis. I'm having a very tough time processing everything and my emotions and I am seeing a therapist as well. Some people have just been through a ton of stuff and need deeper healing than others. I know God will see me through!
none of us do! that's not the point I'm trying to make here. The bigger thing I tend to have issue with is that Thomas in scripture doesn't show any dissension like this, in fact there's evidence for the opposite. But all of us sin, Read Galatians Chapter 2 as it talk about how we are saved not by what we do, but who we believe in ( christ). Another passage I love is " If you love me, you will obey my commandments". This is Jesus letting us know that if we put him first, our natural instincts will shift from sinful to Godly. As always we're praying for you and the struggles you're going through now.
@@TheChosenSleuth Thank you, Brandon. I do think people interpret Thomas differently and that's okay. I really do appreciate the prayer!
@@TheChosenSleuthyes John 14:13-15! Love those scriptures
Jesus did not raise Joseph from the dead.
Joseph died before Jesus began his earthly ministry. Not a valid argument.
Brandon while i appreciate ur comments about grieving in a way that is honouring to God, i dont think u have really had loss. Imagine for a minute, if the Lord forbid, u were to lose ur dear wife, what that process wld look like. Maybe u wld take it to the edge.
David would not have played chess. The game was invented in India, I think in the 12th century. AD
There was no Ramah's death, this is just a made up story with no biblical basis. Terrible idea to add a story like this to the Chosen! Making Jesus look sniveling and confused is another bad idea. The Bible is what God revealed to his people, no need to add any stories to it. Season 4 is horrible. Stick to the text.👎
Jesus did raise another person from the dead there was a funeral a son of a widow?
Yeah three resurrections total (excluding Jesus Himself), Jairus Daughter, the son of the woman at the funeral, then Lazarus.
You have no idea how triggered I am with all this "Thomas should grieve in a way that honors God." We focus on what Job said at the beginning of his trial. But if we look at the whole book, he even cursed the day he was born and questioned God openly. Then God came and guess who blessed God's heart, not his religiously-speaking friends but the complaining Job. Job was honest. He poured his pain before God. We need to stop judging people because when they are grieving, they are already dealing with a big loss. As a pastor mourning the death of my husband, I was the victim not only of satan stealing his life, but of Christians preaching to me about the "right way" to grieve. Church. Stop. And although i know Rhema's death and Thomas actions are fictional, I find your comments a bit too familiar to what I have experienced from the body of Christ in the last 3 years. The people of God need to stop hurting their fallen. I am glad Jesus wept. And he is okay with us weeping too.
So sorry to hear about your loss absolutely. I pray God continues to give you peace and guidance.
Though, I think you missed my point slightly here. Thomas is (first off a fictional version in the chosen) in a place where he is grieving which is fine, but to do so by hurting those around him, and siloing himself is not honoring to God. My biggest point is not whether this is right or wrong, my point is that there is evidence of Thomas doing the complete opposite of this in scripture. Thomas speaks 4 times that we see, the first two he is fervently following Jesus and asking questions on how to follow him better. The last two he is concerned that the other disciples are wrong and questioning, then ultimately declaring Jesus as God. Nowhere in scripture do we see Thomas act in this way. I’m not saying it’s impossible in the human experience.
@@TheChosenSleuthgreat point
I've thought this through many, many times. Ramah was not a biblical person. And what Thomas went through is not biblical either. Based on what is in the NT and what we have seen in The Chosen, I believe Jesus would have healed her and brought her back. It doesn't make sense why he would not. I love the Chosen and if I had a critique, it would be her death.
My problem is just like with people that are Lord of the rings fans The Hobbit fans and now with the rings of power. I don't need you to change the story and go away from Canon. I need you to keep it as close to the word of God as possible. It is very dangerous when you add and take away and by adding such serious situations you are taking away from the feelings of the Bible and adding feelings in which to me is so dangerous.
As i think about your criticism over the years, it seems to me you take to most exception when the Apostles do not act in a way you think they should. I wonder if you have a preference for them to stay in the stained glass and only demonstrate how to act; and take exception when The Chosen takes them out of the stained glass, makes them human, and uses them as an example of how not to act?
You keep saying this is too far in the story line for an Apostle to get drunk and deal with a death poorly. In Acts, which is even further in the storyline, we have the major apostles who believed Jesus is the messiah literally frozen by the death of Jesus. It takes them forever to finally accept what happened and the implications. I don't see anything wrong with how Thomas is acting.
Wait did the apostles get drunk when Jesus died though? I'm not saying they needed to be perfect, I'm saying That Thomas Specifically seems to be very far off from where we see him in scripture.
@@TheChosenSleuthI think at that point their flesh was under subjection esp at the shock of Jesus’ brutal death. But they were renewed as he appeared to them. Their “failures” were not along the same lines of struggle but rather with new things they had to learn (ie: gentile laws, order, functioning in supporting large crowds). We all struggle but we shouldn’t go back to baby steps every time.
Bro Ramah doesnt exist 😂😂😂 is a made up character. Why is there even a debate on it?
Man like I want the chosen to be so good at representing the Bible but what the heck! You're going to tell me that Jesus told somebody that he was going to approve of their wedding and on top of that it's someone that's going to marry a disciple and she dies and Jesus does nothing about it........... That's crazy so not only did you write in a storyline and add to the Bible but you made it more impactful than everything that Jesus did during the season? That doesn't come off as very very wrong to everybody who claims to be a christian?
Frankly, her character should never have existed. Now we’re having to watch him go through yet another unnecessary character arc.
They easily could have used two side characters to tell this story, not one of the disciples. I’m really not a fan of so many of them backsliding when the Gospels never say anything about them doing so, Peter losing his child, etc..
I like the show, but sheesh, at least try to be honest with these people who actually existed.
It’s a TV show, not a documentary.
Also these disciples were in fact human beings that travelled with Jesus for 3 years. Are you really saying that you think the disciples didn't have challenging life events happening in their lives during this time. These were twelve young men that were on the front lines with Jesus who were being discipled. You don't think the enemy was doing everything he could to prevent them from fulfilling God's plan for their lives, the same way he does with Christians today. You think Jesus kept them from all trials and difficulties during those 3 years. Peters wife maybe didn't have a miscarriage, Thomas maybe didn't have a fiancé that was killed by a Roman but to think they didn't have issues in their personal lives that challenged them and their faith in Jesus at times makes no sense whatsoever.
One of the main points of the show is to remind us that they're not just characters in a story, or figures in a stainless window. They were real people living real human lives with strengths and weaknesses and they would all have had friends and family. The fact Jesus tells them they will have trials and tribulations says a lot, about the fact their lives would be really difficult at times, just like ours can be.
Also the problems shown are ones that would I imagine be typical of the realities of life at the time. Infant mortality issues and dealing with the brutality of Rome.
iI think that peter and eden losing their child worked out more well than ramah dying. i get where you’re coming from though but i do think that these things really remind us that the disciples were human and faced challenges. even though these events didn’t happen, I think we as viewers can sometimes relate to these characters.
@@LoulizabethThey were with him for 70 weeks (something else the show gets wrong), and the Gospels never say if they backslid during that tune other than when Yeshua was arrested. It’s important because the disciples are recorded as loyal up until it mattered.
You know very little about the apostles personal lives so it is very presumptuous of you to assume they didn't struggle with issues like we do today outside of persecution for their faith.
So Dallas wants to mingle fact with fiction, then the least he could do is not make Jesus out to be a divine leader without prophetic vision. I don’t believe for one minute that the Jesus of the Bible would stand by in this scenario and allow Remah to die. There is no round table discussion that will convince me that more harm than good was done in portraying Jesus in this way. The raising of Lazarus, that was the story! But it was overshadowed by a made-up character’s death.
This is so annoying this stupid debate. Just read the Bible.
this is fiction...man made drama...read the gospel and life of the saints for inspiration why discuss what people put together to express what they thought God was trying to say (oh that He had a better sense of drama and storytelling) read the church fathers and what is happening to present day christians if you want drama. God's story is perfect man does not need to add to it to make it more ... entertaining ...
Hey! I just noticed that Dallas in reference to I think Lazarus, or even if Thomas says the (approximate) line "His brothers will carry him through this". This is Dallas quoting a line in the Chosen where he uses the word "brothers", and as far as I know Dallas is not speaking about biological brothers. AND this brings me back to the line about Jesus "brothers". Maybe Dallas has come to realize that they don't have to be Jesus'biological brothers! LOL
When they discuss Jesus' Brothers with Mary, they never actually say their relation, just that they aren't in Nazareth.
They’re just trying not to offend the Catholics. Mary had children, had to have to survive. Logic still exists in the world.
@@TheChosenSleuth Exactly. So why say Jesus had brothers?
@@kronosdorma With Joseph her husband? Some women could not bear children and they survived. Elizabeth before John the Baptist in her old age. But also as Dallas believes In Jesus' brothers, , I just thought that Dallas very casually said "brothers wil carry him" in a way that I doubt he thought "oh I have to make sure not to offend the Catholics" all before he said the line, and used the word "brothers".
@@TheChosenSleuth You meanin the Chosen, right,ie not in the Bible?