Is a Tesla Powerwall 2 Worth it? (1 year review)
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
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I've been using my Tesla Powerwall 2 for a little over a year now. Let's check out the data and see if it was really worth it.
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11 days without power after hurricane irma was the tipping point for me... built a new house with sips, solar pv and powerwall and yeah... first time the neighborhood lost power and i didn’t notice until i looked outside?
priceless.
Nice 😂
Lmao. Everyone is wondering how df your light are on
Only 11 days?
@@Derpuwolf my dude "only 11 " 🤣🤣
@@one_king3889 *PTSD from Irma and Maria*
When Irma came by, it knocked out power for 2-3 weeks, and it didn't even directly hit Puerto Rico. It just grazed by it and its strong winds blew it out.
Maria on the other hand knocked out power for over 3 months and it shredded so much our horrible antiquated electrical grid.
You don't need solar if you could hook a generator up to this guys hands while he's talking.
NICE
I bet he's One hell of a massage therapist
hahahaha
Generators are messy, because of the maintenance and the fuel management responsibilities!
@@sunilsiv He kidding you know that right? Kinetic energy? Get the joke lmao
seeing your numbers you need a few more solar panels, at least enough to match the energy you're using
Agree
@@BenSullinsOfficial how much does one solar panel cost
@@Firefoxsimp, what the point of having one? You need a system to coup with that.
@@pantazev was just curious
@@Firefoxsimp same
I am not a huge you tuber like you. So I paid full price for my power walls. I live in Florida and since insulation I am pretty much self sufficient. Charge at day and use at night. Just the piece of mind and not having to mess with noisy generators. Definitely worth the full price that I paid.
very interesting. I'm excited to get my power wall installed
Wow
Love you guys you make my day!
Propaganda
With no solar? I thought you decided no solar panels.
@@rasberry4739 they said they won't be getting the solar roof.
In India we have installed a 5 kw solar system with 10 12 volts 200 ah battery which gives us 24 kWh of backup... and the total system costs us about 480000 Rs which is about 6550 usd.
Panel of which company?
Also it's 2.4kwh right?
@@LEo_7 no. It’s likely 24kWh. American solar is way more expensive than most other countries. I can. Get a 6kWh system installed here in Aus for around $2k
@@LEo_7 12v*200ah*10 works out to be about 24kWh in my books. They must be biggg batteries tho. 6550 USD is definitely a good deal for that much, maybe some subsidies?
But the electricity price here in india is cheaper when compared I guess
Factor in paying to have the panels removed and replaced when you need a new roof.
I live in the southern part of Brazil here the electricity is generated purely by water, so the electricity costs about 5c (USD) the intire day to buy and theres no to litle time off grid, so by my use theres no much i would use
Barata sua energia
Cara q sorte
@@louisdrouard9211 basically
5c USD? Here in São Paulo it costs around more than 10c. Are you sure it is cheap like you mentioned? Please notice there is the energy rate and then the transport rate in our bills, and the last one doubles the price.
For being so cheap you probably live in Santa Catarina as the state-owned utility company isn't greedy as the privatised ones and provides a better service
the real answer is if this was the NORMAL set up that everyone was accustom to.... no one in their right mind would change it to what is "normal" now.
and that's how you know, it's a good idea.
costs associated with the change however, not everyone's cup of tea due to their individual financial or living situations.
I have a 5.94 kWh system with 1 Powerwall. It’s been cool to see sunlight turn into energy to then power my house. I think part of the economics of it all that might be hard to factor in is the energy independency of the solar + Powerwall. I’ve had my system for about a month now and love it.
@Jackson Parker I am financing it. I am paying $124.60/mo for the loan and ~$25/mo for admin fees on my electricity bill. In the end, I'm saving some, but the energy independency is really amazing. I got they system activated on Sept. 8th and I'm 96% self sufficient.
For me, having 3 PWs, combined with solar, to run the house and home offices is more about continuity. Being without power disrupts the working from home so much and that alone is enough justification in a hurricane-prone area like mine, in Puerto Rico.
If you have sat internet then that is the way to go for sure. Starlink ftw in the future.
Also in Pr looking for the right company to buy Solar
Which company did you go with ? And do you recommend ?
Another advantage of using the power walls for emergency power backup is they don't make any noise. Most generators make annoying noises while running.
And they stink!
For me it's not just about keeping the family safe and powered during blackouts. It's being able to hit the "Go Off Grid" button whenever I want and know that I am self sufficient and not relying on Utilities and Government to send me power. For me, that's worth much much more than the Powerwalls cost! One thing you don't mention in the above is that if you put up much much more panels (I have a 24kw system), then the math works out much better. Here in Arizona, the power companies send you a check at the end of the year for all the extra energy you banked with them. I get about $1,500 each year. That adds up in the equation as well and TBH panels are super cheap nowadays so you might as well load up big time when you build your system.
$1,500! That's amazing!
I’m in Sydney Australia and We installed our solar and power wall 2 almost 2 years ago. Recently my energy retailer signed me up to participate in a VPP. (Virtual power plant). Basically the Powerwall 2 has software that grid operators can access with permission from the homeowner. So for example, the grid operator signs up 2000 homes with Powerwalls which can operate like a peaker power plant when demand is high. When they do this they notify the homeowner by text message when the event will start and finish. They will always leave 20% reserved in the PW for the homeowner and pay us $40 per event regardless how much the use. I originally calculated The payback for my system would be around 8 years, but now with VPP this could be even sooner.
Power walls make a whole lot of sense in Australia, for sure, simply due to the inconsistent utilities. In the U.S. power tends to be more reliable, not including CA's 'power safety shutoffs' or losing power due to a hurricane or storm. In the U.S. it winds up being more about future-proofing your energy costs rather than actually saving money.
-Matt
Hi Craig. I'm from Brisbane. How much did your power wall cost? And how big is your solar system? Our solar system is 9.9kw, and we had to fully replace it at the start of the year because our 3kw system died after 10 years. So we are very interested to see (a) if these solar power panels will last more than 10 years and (b) how much a power wall will cost. At present we are generating around 40kw hours per day but our living room air con is 7kw, so we are really undecided about this, if you can help me out with some info that would be great!
@@junkerzn7312 We don't have any inconsistencies from our grid providers, the only time we may get a blackout is storm damage. The motivation to go solar and PW2 is the cost savings. Good government incentives and its a no brainer.
@@melw3518 Full price for a Powerwall 2 installed is approximately $13,000 some states have rebates and incentives so it's worth to check this out. My Solar is 6.5kw, the minimum they recommend for a PW2 is 5KW so you have plenty of solar. Basically, battery storage is the missing link in home solar
@@craighardiman144 using PSW Energy in Perth, the install was $10,000. Im in two minds of getting it added to my current solar array, but being my first home I don’t think I will
I think that you're not factoring in a huge part of the costs, Ben, which is interest. The total cost of your system is 27k including installs. The vast majority of people don't have that amount laying around(and if they do, they can invest it, so you'd have to take the opportunity cost of not investing in mind) and will take out a loan. Even given today's extremely low interest rates, if you install this on a house you're buying and roll this into the mortgage, you're looking at ~55% extra in total interest paid, for a 25 year mortgage, so the total cost in that case is 42K and it's not like you've added any value to the house with a mega-obsolete system by that point. If you've already got a house and take out a HELOC to finance it, the interest rates will be higher still. Also, given the fact that the warranty is only ten years, I don't think that you can treat the additional cost over a 25 year period as 0. Ditto for the Powerwall batteries. So it looks like right now, the system doesn't make financial sense even in Sunny San Diego, but I hope the equation will improve reasonably quickly 🤞
P.S. another factor why I'm not getting a power-wall yet, which I'd considered, just as a big UPS, is max power draw. A Powerwall has a peak output of 5.8KW according to the specs(it was ~3.5KW from what I remember, for the previous generation when I checked it out), I know you have 2, but that's pricy, see above. My kettle uses 3KW(standard for European kettles and I've wired up a European plug with 240V in my kitchen, just to use a European kettle, since I'm a tea-guzzling transplant and slow American kettles annoy me, but even an American kettle takes 1.5KW) and my microwave uses 1.2KW and the oven uses up to 3.5KW. I've got gas heating, but for people who use electric, even a small space heater will use 1.5KW. So basically, running off of a Powerwall would preclude me from doing a ton of things for the duration, or at least perform an annoying power-balancing act. Have you run into power-draw limits during the blackouts?
Yep. Completely agree, for most people a power wall and solar won’t make sense.
Don't borrow money for something like this. Either build-up the savings to buy it outright, or don't do it. Simple as that. That said, the potential yield from the money had it not been spent should be taken into account, and it does lengthen the break-even point by a bit. People often use very rosy interest rates (as if it the money were invested in a risky high-yield instrument instead of safely)... you really have to use CD interest rates which are only around 1.0 - 1.5% or so for a 5-year CD.
-Matt
The cost is basically the same. Ben has the benefit of having power during blackouts. $27,000 at 3% on a 25-year amortization would be $127.78 per month. Ben pays $18 per month on top of that for grid connectivity so the total cost per month is $145.78 which is $5.78 more than electricity alone. Two powerwalls double the output: 14kW peak or 10kW continuous rate.
Indeed - the amortized cost does not take into account how this was funded. Was it borrowed or paid cash. If cash, you lost out on potential earnings if you'd invested that amount, also only considers the amount paid in MOTD and not the future value of the investment. Far too simple to take the total and divide by useful life. Also doesn't factor in any maintenance costs, early failure, replacements, etc. This is the way an insurance guy would sell you a policy and not a proper financial assessment of the real costs. Sorry
What proper financial assessment? Early failure? Maintenance? There’s a thing called warranty from Tesla. You weren’t listening.
Last time i had a outage is between 15 and 20 years ago. Happend twice in my life time. One was like 2 minutes the other half a hour.
What are you, European? I have had like a dozen in my life, I live in Washington state.
That is the first question I asked, how many outages have we had over the past few years? None!
Ah yes. I live in the UK and we have not had an outage in about 10 years. a few brownouts but that's it.
I have a few every month. : /
The other advantage of the battery pack over the generator is a very low sound pressure which you cannot hear while the air cooled generator sound level is roughly 70 dB(A), water cooled 10 less (but is much more expensive). This makes a lot of difference especially during the night.
Thank you for a very good video.
I really like that you have Tesla Powerwalls with solar. If you increase the efficiency of your home, e.g. get a tankless electric water heater, replace your AC with a more efficient 17+ SEER system or add more solar panels, you should be able to essentially supply 100%+ of your own energy! Plus, your electric cars are powered by solar energy when you charge at home. Super cool, keep it up!!
You couldn't charge you car and power all of your house off of panels alone. Right now it's not feasible with the panel efficiency. It's what everyone assumes the future will be, but it can't happen on today's silicon
@Eat Jat Not to mention that 40 gallons of water that is drinkable might come in real handy someday. Tankless water heaters make nice wall art however.
Well, living in Puerto Rico with an unreliable electric grid and the threat of hurricanes every year makes these things more of a necessity. I am waiting for Powerwall v3 to come out next year to buy one with a solar system.
Wow - how is it living in PR? I'm sorry the government has destroyed so much - how has the bankruptcy affected your life?
@@mscolli3 Living in PR is great as long as you do not depend on the government. Life goes on as usual for the most part. Think of the Federal gov debt. It doesn't affect your day to day. Same here. Just live with the boyscout modo. Be prepared.
@@bernardomarques8566 any chance the government cleans up its act? Why all the problems all these decades?
I think you may not wait until Powerwall v3, you can consider Chinese products as an alternative, and the price is low, if you are interested, please contact me.
@@cenozoicera5395 what alternatives? Gimme some google terms to check
A really interesting breakdown, thanks for that. I live in the south of Spain, off grid with 4.3kw solar and 6kw battery and we have more than enough to power everything we need. We do have a diesel generator for those rare bad weather weeks, but I haven't used it for about 6 months now.
We have 2 Powerwall 2's on our house as well, paired with our solar panels. Honestly I think the Powerwalls are the best product Tesla produces and is the thing I'm most excited about for their future as a company. Sunny days we're able to stay completely off grid, day and night. The advantage of having Powerwalls is not financial. It's reducing your reliance on grid power which is not clean power (and also not always reliable). You're getting to keep more of the clean solar power that you produce.
"Well, if your power was out & the gas company cut gas for some reason". Welcome to Texas.
People with the power wall still had power during the snowmagedon
Great video. I have 1 x powerwall2 here in the UK, with solar (and a model 3). What makes it compelling for me, is that I have signed up my powerwall to be part of the 'grid' with Tesla and my energy supplier (who also supply only green energy). Tesla's software manages the powerwall throughout the day according to predicted weather etc. As a result of this deal - it drastically reduces my electricity bills, as my kWh cost from the grid is reduced - and my supplier pays me the same rate for export that I pay for import. However, in order to get this my powerwall depletes from 100% to around 21% between 16:00-19:00 each day (so im serving the grid at peak times). Im fine with that, as I still have 21% in reserve for power failures. All of this combined, means im reducing my energy bills by around 70% - as a heavy user, this is alot of money over the long term (typically our house uses 60kWh per day). At this rate, my solar and powerwall should have paid for themselves over 10 years. Still a long time period - but worth it to get all of the features you've described, use clean energy, (charge our model 3 with excess solar! nothing beats that!) & overall reduce our bills long term! For me - the powerwall2 is a great long term investment when used in this fashion.
Hi Ehran, I am considering doing exactly the same thing ... do you still hold the same opinions 12 months on? Do you find that you are able to charge cars with surplus solar? Thanks, Paul
I'm going on 2 1/2 years with my PowerWall 2 and I absolutely LOVE IT. So much so I wish I had bought 2 and am thinking of adding a second!
Is the first Powerwall installed so it is easy to add a second Powerwall? Or do you need a lot of extra electrical work to link the second one?
@@toddkes5890 I'm not sure. We're actually selling our house and moving closer to my wife's work so we didn't look into adding a second Powerwall.
Same conclusion that I came to last year when I was pricing out power walls. But in a twist, I calculated spending the power wall money on more solar panels instead and that turned out to be a fairly large benefit even selling the excess power back to the grid at only $0.03/kWh. So I currently just have solar installed.
What I wound up doing to deal with potential CA blackouts due to fire weather was to spend roughly $2000 on a hyper-efficient Dometic cooler and a small 40Ah LiFePO4 battery system that could run it for ~3 days or so without needing to be recharged. It is portable so it can easily be moved into a vehicle for recharging if necessary. When power goes out we transfer the more expensive items from the fridge to the cooler (i.e. several hundred dollars worth of meat, usually) and evict the beer.
Ever since that week of hell (power safety cut-offs), PG&E has only cut power once since then and only for a few hours. So having a complete home backup system just for events that might occur 2-3 days out of a year seems a bit overkill. Meanwhile, the Dometic remains useful for a number of things unrelated to power cuts, such as road trips. Its really portable.
-Matt
It's always good to calculate ones personal needs before jumping to a solution as everyone's situation will differ.
the art of not looking like a salesman, you have perfected.
Hi Ben, we got 15.4 kW solar + 1 x Powerwall 2 on 5 December 2019 and Model 3 on 20 December 2019 (exciting month!). We have been very happy with our setup. We have a flat rate here (Melbourne, Australia), so no advantage to fill up at night. We were self sufficient in summer and autumn/fall, but had high usage (reverse cycle air conditioning) and low generation (obviously) in winter. So far we have imported just less than 1 MWh more than we have exported, but I am hoping that that will change, having just passed the equinox. We have had an astonishing 24 blackout events, though many were just for a minute or two, for a total of 4 hours of back up. I try to wait for a sunny day to charge the car (used to be just on weekends, but now that is easier in lockdown). I find the Tesla app addictive and am always hoping for greater generation and trying to minimise usage.
You should try to add a small wind turbine or two just in case there is no sun and it could also work in the night
When comparing value between cost over time (using grid power) vs savings from an investment (powerwall), I think you should include a discount rate in order to accurately compare the total savings.
A discount rate is required because you can opt to not buy a powerwall and invest the amount to offset continual reliance on grid power.
Just went operational with my 34 panel 11.56 kwh 3 Tesla Power Wall system. Your videos played a huge role in my decision. I was considering a Generac system but your compellng argument to have PW's swayed me. Thank you so much. And yeah, watching that power flow meter in action was mesmerizing! So Cool!
I was just looking at a generac generator but this Tesla power wall looks appealing. Can this power wall be used without having solar panels?
"we do have fires...kind of...in the eastern part of the state."
That's a bit of an understatement.
Definitely downplayed it a lot lmao
I'm getting dual tesla power walls with solar. my battery capacity isn't as much as yours. after incentives, my monthly bill to finance the entire system is $168. my average power bill is around $200. so.. yah. WAY BETTER. thanks tesla. you rock.
Wow, I can’t believe you paid that much for your solar system! Even with incentives, thats expensive. Here in Australia (don’t mention our government’s laggard attitude to electric cars and infrastructure) we paid $4100 AUD for a 6.6kw system and 5kw high end inverter (including gov subsidies). Keep up the great work - love the channel!
Once I build my house, we plan on doing a power wall and small 4kwh solar array.
I'm having the same system in my house getting installed today.
4k solar and 1 power wall.
A Power wall isn't really worth it unless you have a lot of excess power to load-shift. I would spend the money on beefing up the solar panel systems instead of a power wall. e.g. Make it an 8KW system instead of a 4KW system.
This is true for off-grid living as well. If you are off-grid (e.g. building a cabin), then having only 4KW of solar won't float the boat if your entire energy system consists of only solar and a power wall. Having 8kW of solar + Power Wall would make a lot more sense, but even that won't be enough for reliable year-round power. You will probably also need a propane system (for home heating, water heater, and stove if nothing else), plus a small propane generator for the times of the year when the solar + power wall isn't enough. Such as during rainy season or a week of blizzards.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 for my use I don't need 8k of solar. I want to use it for power arbitration plus an offgrid reward.
Which means if I turn off grid power from our home, a company that works with my power company pays me directly which doubles the return rates.
@@junkerzn7312 plus I live in San Diego. Our electricity bill is through the roof plus we don't need that much heating.
@@bonghollywood1653 Yes, but you are going to have problems managing your power arbitration with only 4KW of solar. At best that will generate only around 20kWh/day in summer and less than 15kWh/day in winter.
The cost of power depends on how much you use. What do you consider to be a 'high' electricity bill? How many kWh/day do you use ?
-Matt
I recently got solar panels and I am loving it! Saving the environment and my wallet! Love your channel!
how do you recycle those panels when they degrade. what about all the chemicals and poowere it takes to make them. what about how at night when most people are all home and using power, you rely on the grid which is most likely using a gas peaker to power your grid. the current green dream is not real. it will still take many more years of tech break through's and upgrades to be "green" and it will need to incorporate a way to properly dispose of obsolete panels. which there is no current process for. just fill up the land fills.
Great that you have solar panels! To address the concerns of the other poster, solar panels should last 20 years or longer. Also you can add a Powerwall and essentially supply 100% or more of your needs. Solar + Powerwall is a sensible solution and the production of these systems is becoming greener. I am sure Tesla is looking at battery system reuse / recycling and for solar panels too. They would have to since there will be some new panels that do not pass production tests or break and need to be recycled. One last point, with solar / wind power, you are helping to stabilize the grid by supplying power. We need to accelerate the installation of these systems. Look at all of the fires in California and Oregon and the fact that we ran out of regular names this year for hurricanes. We had to go to the Greek alphabet! The Arctic is almost completely ice free in the summer now. This is a huge wake-up call for every person on the planet. Do your research for yourself and see the truth.
Trent Green in fact you are wrong. Just few weeks ago we had rolling black outs due to the increased unreliability of generating power and removal of peaked plants. Look it up. They actually destabilize the grid due to their unpredictable power generation and capacity to generate with no storage in possible overproduction periods. The green tech that exists today is not capable of reliably powering the grid 100%. It would takes a few thousand wind farms of mass scale. That On top of thousands of solar farms, or every home and building in the state to only mostly power the states ever growing needs. Does the wind blow all the time every where? Nope. Does the sun shine every day, nope. MOREOVER, DO WE HAVE MASS POWER STORAGE, Nope! I work in power and it’s simply not possible with the tech out there today. having faith that they will find a way to recycle them and hoping that they can get more “green” in their production methods is not a reliable way to move forward. Stop believing all you hear from the “green” people who say all or nothing. it’s simply not possible with the tech available now. And most of the state’s residents simply cannot afford solar let alone a battery pack. Electric cars cost more then the average ICE vehicle. Virtual battery backup to the grid via peoples cars avd battery packs is viable solution if more of the population had battery and electric car, but they don’t. Then consider the unbelievable red tape involved to get to that point. Decades away.
@@jasonhalopoff2130 I love how you are worried about solar panel recycling in 25 years while complaining about the lack of polluting peakers. Storage technology is available, it just needs to be installed.
@@jasonhalopoff2130 ok. Show the cost of going 100% solar at home (I can do that and plan to soon) with products made once every 25 years as opposed to daily usage of energy from other sources. How long do power plants last? Nuclear power especially as it is still used if you want to compare real world energy sources. Nuclear waste is put where? For how long? Solar panels and solar energy storage are improving every year. It’s not ideal but no one has yet to create an ideal energy source. Better than adding more CO2 to the air for 25 years at a clip.
I have one Tesla power wall , and while I haven't calculated my costs as completely as you did and paid a lot more for my system, the cost of electricity where I live is around .34 a kilowatt hour making the whole system well worth the investment. I roughly estimate that I'm breaking even on the cost of my system vs paying the utility company monthly. Plus we have frequent power outages. July 15 2022: 16 hours. July 5: 10 hours. July 4: 9 hours. June 29: 19 hours. June 15: 12 hours. April 6: 2 days. Those are the most recent outages. I live in Puerto Rico - one of those territories you referred to in your presentation. I will eventually get a second Tesla power wall and more panels since I plan to get an electric car in the near future.
In my case, I agree with your point that peace of mind is worth the cost. However, it would depend on the reliability of my utility. For instance, we lose power once a year for average of 12hours. We decided to do an interlock switch that allows me to prevent back feed and connect my entire house to propane generator. This setup cost me under $1000 including generator, electrical install/permitting and fuel. The downside is that is only effective for short outages and I would have to prioritize loads for extended outages lasting more than 1 day
I was wondering when someone would cover this angle. Great comparison between powerwall and generators. Here in Florida we have hurricanes that can knock out your power a couple times per season. Sometimes a day sometimes a couple days and the big ones a week or more. The hurricane may have passed a day or two ago but the sun is up and your panels are charging again. The Generac generator company does a lot of advertising here. In addition to power outage peace of mind the powerwall would be useful year round keeping you off peak rates. Thanks!
If you got two powerwalls for free and didn't take into account interest costs for paying for everything... This is an absolutely horrible video
Keep in mind the generator has to be downstream of the powerwall. So that the generator only turns on when the powerwall extinguishes. Also a small generator can’t handle the possibility of being back fed from the powerwall or solar inverters.
San Diego has a mild climate? Wow everything really is subjective. We call San Diego normal weather an extreme heat wave in Finland.
What about Cold weather? San diego winter is nothing over there? It's interesting how people think.
I’d have to agree, San Diego is usually praised for having amazing weather but in reality, most days are uncomfortably hot unless you are within a mile of the beach. Even now in October. I’ve lived in SD for 10 years.
San Diego probably has the mildest climate in all of North America. The average highs only swing about 7-8 degrees Celsius between the dead of winter and the middle of summer. Meanwhile in Helsinki the average highs swing about 20 degrees Celcius. On top of that the average high in summer in San Diego is only 26 degrees vs. 21 degrees in Helsinki.
I think people say it's a mild climate when the difference between an average summer day and an average winter day isn't severe. In the winter it's chilly and sunny and in the summer it's hot and sunny = mild
@@sebastian3004 well compared to here in wisconsin yes the winter in sand diego is nothing lol
My dad has 2 back up generators that keep the 2 fridges and the tv/WiFi running. Honestly since all the water still works in an outage (sink/shower) I cant even tell the difference. The aim of Tesla selling powerwall + solar shouldn’t be to keep your family safe during a power outage, it should be the fact that you save a ton of money, fully transition to clean energy, and power your soon to be self driving electric car from home. Power outage safety is just a plus
Here in New Orleans, where electricity rates are already low (we don't have peak/off-peak rates), the catchback for a PowerWall might seem infinite. But the value of intangibles like "maintaining power during (frequent) outages" or "not having to evacuate for a slow-moving hurricane" should sway lots of potential buyers.
Instead, with the abundance of natural gas and plentiful sun hours, people either go with just-solar (no batteries) or opt for a generator (loud, costly to maintain, not always reliable) and cross their fingers. The few homeowners I know with a PowerWall installed LOVE IT!
“ safe during an outage “ define safe
Blackout in the middle of a winter blizzard.
I think the word he was looking for is comfy. To keep American families safe....that's a job for a gun, right?
@@jobbx6474 He's in California. If he's getting a blizzard, the world is ending
Well it is 2020
Yeah, he used that word a lot, and I thought it was strange. Unless he had an older relative who needed, ... i don't know, oxygen or whatever.
But, regardless, peace of mind has no price.
This is the absolute best breakdown I've seen about this system. Thank you for taking the time to create a dataset crunch the numbers for us.
We just went through the Texas winter storm. We are definitely adding powerwalls. We have a 4.8 kW solar system, but it can't run during a blackout unless batteries are installed. If I did the math right, keeping usage down to the fridge, charging devices and maybe a light or two, would let us run for almost a week on two powerwalls. Using a oil filled electric radiator would drop us to about 2 days, but it would keep at least one room of the house above 38F (which is what my bathroom was Tuesday morning). That's without any solar charging (the ice covering the panels would have reduced daily production to well under a kilowatt hour.
During the summer, we wouldn't have AC, but we would have fans at least. And, until Texas fixes it's deregulation problem, that'll keep us going for a while.
We don't have the peak rates that you do and our electricity is extremely cheap ($0.11 per kWh), but without the guarantee of reliability, I'm getting those batteries installed.
I have a similar setup but with a 1 LG battery. As a backup plan, in case of outage I would use an external generator tied to the system. Night, Grid goes off line, Battery is fully discharged. Generator kicks in. Cheaper solution for me.
Interesting. So conclusion is that in your case, either a battery or a solar would have been cost-effective but the law of diminishing returns mean that you can't justify both on cost grounds alone. I agree though that having back-up power is very valuable. And even if it does cost a bit extra, if we have the cash why shouldn't we invest a bit of it for the sake of future generations?
In my case I can't justify a battery: My solar panels cover my daytime electricity and earn me a FiT subsidy (a UK/europe thing where you get paid for what you generate even if not exported). I can't charge an EV at home, so night time energy costs v low. That could change if the grid became less reliable or batteries became a lot cheaper. I've had my panels for 9 years and they've been faultless with zero maintenance. They paid off in 6 years.
I have a quibble with your amortisation calc though - shouldn't you use a net present value calc rather than simply dividing the months?
I agree, which would be that if the total cost is paid upfront, that money is worth less and less as the years pass. Should = more profit
This is an important point.
Setting up for the future at today's prices will pay off.
As tax take from fossil fuels falls (in UK it's over half the pump price) they'll recoup the money somewhere else. Maybe tax off peak? Cut rebates or grants?
I'd love to go off grid.
@@andrewsaint6581 Totally agree about setting up for the future. I think it's always a good idea to invest some spare cash while you have it in something tangible that can drive your living costs down in the long term. I had a well-paid job as an aerospace engineer so I paid off the mortgage & the next thing I did was buy the panels. Now in 2020, with my industry on its knees and out of work with no prospect of getting back to those levels of income for the forseeable, I'm glad that I've got a low-cost life that I can just about finance with a couple of side-hustles. It goes to show you never know what's round the corner.
Of course this completely undermines the notion of using NPV for personal investment spending. Basically, if you have it, invest it in something that can earn or save for the long term, and that won't evaporate in an economic shock.
Welcome to Brazil ....
Time for Reflection and Reinventing the Wheel, Time for breaking paradigms
Hello Guys, you in the United States of North America, Europe, Asia and India, Autralia has the technology of storing energy in the lithium batteries of Solar city or Be Poweral do and with the technologies of Lg Chem, and other partnerships of Gigafactory tesla Model, ...
We in Brazil reuse the batteries of Notbooks, which are not used in Notbooks and recycle, we use Ultracapacitors, we stabilize batteries by batteries in litho-kalas to reuse lithium batteries and ultracapacitors.
The best deal in the world is to store electrical energy, and water and food conservation, ...
If you want to develop this business, come to Brazil, because the market here is virgin in Clean Energy from Solar Panel, Electric cars and mass transportation such as passenger train, we are in a good position to invest in Brazil and earn a good exchanged and win many customers of LImpa Energy ...
God bless you and your family ...
Be very welcome to Brazil, Parents of tropical climate, Sun for three hundred and sixty six days a year ...
I did a quick calc and the IRR (i.e. discount rate for 0 NPV) would be 8%. So you'd probably be better off investing the money elsewhere. (just solar, no battery)
We love our power walls and solarroof. Power bill went from $500 in July 2019 to $55 in 2020.
But, biggest benefit is knowing we always have power. Just last week the shutdown power for an hour when the found a bad cable. We never knew they shutdown the power. And If we have a multiday PSPS we will just keep doing our normal routine. Unlike last year when we lost power for 4 days.
$500 per month! Wow - that's a lot!! Either your electricity is super expensive or you're a heavy user or both. Recommend you look at what's driving your most usage and upgrade to more efficient appliances.
A 27kWh system, using the most recent Tesla Powerwall, contains 2.25kg of cobalt. Since it consists of Panasonic's 2170 battery cells, it is highly likely Congolese child labor was used to extract and process that cobalt. The estimate is that 4 children would have to toil for 22 and a half days to mine 2.25kg of the material. There is no return-on-investment that would make a Powerwall worth it to me.
@@mboyd549 - Electricity in California is expensive, especially at certain times of the day. $0.20/kWh is the off-peak rate. $0.40/kWh is the on-peak rate, M-F 4PM-9PM. Also in summer, we run a lot of Air Conditioning. All are appliances are less than 5-year-olds. What the Powerwalls do is let store the solar energy generated during the day and then use it during the peak (and beyond). This results in large savings.
@@dennishaty899 straight from a "clean" coal newsletter?
In Florida I have no natural gas. So I had to add the cost of a propane tank that could last a week. We would lose power weekly. Usually only for a few minutes. But during a hurricane we would lose power for a day or two. It would get miserably hot and humid within an hour. So paying for a powerwall now instead of a generator makes complete sense. Losing a freezer full of food is expensive too.
another thought. Batteries don't do well in the cold. If your battery bank is OUTSIDE in the cold, you might need to heat it to make it work properly. This will burn power. If your bank is inside, presumably you are heating the inside of your house already.
Considering how we keep reaching record temperatures in Summer and energy request is getting higher and higher for AC units, I'd say that being off-grid is priceless. Imagine not having energy for days when outside is 110F (45C), which is exactly when people would use the AC the most.
According to a quick calculation, the solar panels would have an IRR of 8% (yearly). So on average you'd earn more by just investing in stocks.
Imagine thinking stocks grow year over year that simply
Yes but that is not a fair comparison. Unless you foresee a decline in the cost of electricity the solar panels represent a relatively risk free rate of return. You are supposed to earn more (on average) if you are taking higher risks.
I paid $4k for a diesel generator. Our power goes out almost every storm. It’s by far paid for itself just by keeping the freezer and fridge going and keeping the food fresh
Much of the economics depends on the cost of electricity generally, plus the difference between peak and off-peak pricing. The value of keeping the home humming during an outage is priceless.
Imagine how much energy the new battery packs are going to hold with the improved battery design!
Thats exactly why I've been waiting to pull the trigger. Wait 5 years and the PW 4's might be 50Kwh's each with who knows what new innovations.
@Freedom Family You could also use a trebuechet to get into space.
But it wouldn't be practical.
Don't think the new tabless design is much more energy dense, yes they hold more due to being bigger but you'd pack less of them in a given cabinet.
So all of his savings goes up in smoke whenever he throws in the TWO electric vehicles. 80kWh per vehicle (160kWh) worse case charge state. With a grid down scenario his power will last with the powerwalls and the solar panels but when he needs to charge just one vehicle he will wish he had the generator.
I've considered this. I'm still researching as I learn the good/bad of a tesla wall. What isn't talked about is the lower % charging of solar at 83 degrees or higher and the same for cold climates. We just had a foot of snow in the Boise area. The cost vs how long the batteries and solar panels last feels like you're throwing good money after bad. San Diego I get it.
For me, a farm kid with a grid that dies once a month in Canada, I would say that that interruption is welcome.
For someone who lives in the city, like myself now and whose job relies now on the grid being stable... we experience maybe a brownout every few months. A solid UPS covers those brief blips and even those longer rare outages - I can't see a powerwall being beneficial here.
One more observation. If you require uninterrupted power, not just fast backup, don’t buy Powerwalls; they simply don’t work reliably. When you call support, Tesla acknowledges the failure, opens a ticket to level 2 and tell you they will get back to you in 5 to 7 days, which they never do. So you call them back, they put you on hold for 10 minutes to read the ticket and then comes the excuse wagon. After you shoot down the excuses, support opens a new ticket to level 2 to look into it further and the recursion starts. After months of this cycle repeating itself, you have no choice but to give up; realizing you’ve tossed thousands of dollars down the drain. So be warned, customer service ends as soon as your check clears. If Walmart has to sue Tesla to get support, an individual doesn’t stand a chance.
So what is better? Just go with a gas generator?
Malone Mantooth Both have their trade offs. For years, I’ve used a portable gas generator for backup power following hurricanes. I would flip the manual disconnect to the grid, turn off breakers for nonessential loads, plug the generator in and start it up. It needs refueling about every 10 hrs and oil changes every third day. I also had to use a window AC unit as it could not run my house AC. Also, I would be without power until the storm passed. Cost is about $700 plus fuel and I‘ve gone 10 straight days on the generator without issue.
Powerwall without solar limits you to 13.5 kWh and 5 kw continuous discharge per Powerwall. If you divide your load, say 5 kw, by the capacity, 13.5 kWh; you come up with 2.7 hours of power. If your load is 1kw, you get 13.5 hrs of power. Based on your load and how long you want power, determine the # of Powerwalls @ over $8000 per Powerwall. I would not go this route.
Powerwall with solar gives you the possibility to both charge the Powerwall and run your house during the day. This gives you a better chance of powering your house continuously. Your solar system should essentially be cost neutral and hopefully save you $ over the long term. Buying Powerwalls are still just $ out of pocket; no ROI. Note; without energy storage, solar alone is inactivated when the grid is down.
Bottom line, gas generator is cheaper by far and provides a continuous, reliable kw output for as long as you have fuel. Powerwall requires no maintenance, can be stacked to increase capacity and discharge capability but is pricy.
@@daveborinski3021: Thanks, You seemed to know alot which is why I asked. And the way the world is headed now anything can happen, better to ask and know then guess and be wrong.
Malone Mantooth This is what I currently have installed. From Tesla, 13.76 kw of solar panels with a 11.4 kw inverter producing a max of 11.2 kw and I have 2 Powerwall V2s. Ytd, I’m averaging 50 kWh production and 56 kWh usage per day but these values vary significantly day to day. Production is down due to the system being down for 6 weeks waiting for Tesla to replace a failed inverter. And with the pandemic & work from home, usage is down as I’m rarely charging the Model 3 and not using the Model Y at all.
With net metering, going solar was a no brainer. Even assuming a 5% loan interest rate, I come out ahead. Powerwalls on the other hand have no ROI so I’m out that cash. My “justification” was why not make the solar system useful during an extended power outage, if we have to evacuate for a hurricane, the Powerwalls would keep the house powered & I could monitor it remotely and our subdivision experiences frequent momentary power outages due to wildlife, trees, etc. and Powerwalls would eliminate that annoyance. Not to mention, if I happen to be out of town, my wife can manage the Powerwall backup but not the generator.
Since system installation, we haven’t experienced any long term outages. But when we have outages, the Powerwalls have not performed as marketed. I’ve had instances with delayed transfer from grid to Powerwall where systems in the house hard crashed and rebooted. I’ve never had any issues transferring from Powerwall to grid.
Although I’m not happy with the results to date, I don’t know of a better solar & storage solution out there. There were a number of engineering errors with my system and Tesla’s customer service is generally poor. The discrepancy between what was promised and what was delivered means I have to go back and install mini UPSs on devices that need to remain powered 24x7. In the end, I feel duped by Tesla but not pissed off enough to yank it all out.
Caveat emptor my friend.
@@daveborinski3021 Like solar, or the powerwall, I'm not buying something horribly inefficient only to have the technology double or triple in some future year.
I'll wait until the efficiency is so astoundingly outrageously good that I'd have to be an abject fool to NOT buy one.
The luxury off-grid/Leisure Cabin market will probably love this innovation.
yea - That unit with a value of 13,000 $ is the equivalent of paying 30 years my electricity bills ...
Hell, I could simply put those 13k into an index fund with 5% ROI and would have enough income to pay the bills foerever
@@benjaminmeusburger4254 30 years are you sure? That's 36.11 a month in electricity. Though in all honesty, that doesn't really help you if you don't have electricity to begin with due to an power outage. So this is more of the peace of mind, and for areas with high electricity cost it will help reduce the cost over the life of the system. It's also pollutes a lot less then coal and oil power plants due.
@@benjaminmeusburger4254 , good luck on your build out.
@@Griff_TE Yeah, my bill is actually at about ~30 EUR per month. A total of ~1,500 kwh in the last year - which is average for a 1 person household.
Power outage?
I can't remember the last outage We have good infrastructure (there were some outages spaced years apart caused by winter storms, but not in my specific region).
But if you want to live totally off the grid - it would be a great soluation and make sense.
@@benjaminmeusburger4254 Same here, 20/30 EUR month. No power outage in the last 3/4 years.
In most cases when there’s a grid outage you can’t use solar panels during a sunny day and only the PowerWalls. This is done to prevent the additional energy your panels produce to go back to the grid and energizing downed power lines to prevent emergency workers from getting hurt or for them to cause fire etc.
There is a way to take your tesla solar panels/PowerWalls to go off grid which may solve this issue but there’s a bit that needs to be done by the homeowner.
I live in New Mexico and my solar makes about 60 kWh / day. We use most of that power for air conditioning. My utility company allows me to bank unused power in the form of credits. I financed a loan for the system of $32.000. The way I look at it is before and after. Before I used bill averaging and paid about $180 per month. After: my loan and utility bill added together are just under $200. When factor in my Federal tax credits, I know I am saving money.
Your video was most informative for me. The worst outage we ever had here was caused by a winter cold snap and lasted three days, both electric and gas were shut off. I have a gasoline generator I used to keep the cell phones, refrigerators and space heaters running.
great content!!! love to see real world reviews of those systems.. keep it up and keep us updated 👍🏽
You did not factor in "efficiency/loss" into the equation. It takes more than 9kwh from the grid to charge 9kwh of battery. Also, you produce less than 9kwh converting from 9kwh battery to power your home. You should not assume efficiency is 100%. Your actual saving is less than your assumption.
About 9.4kWh to charge a 9kWh Powerwall. It's about 93% efficient round-trip when brand-new. Just round to 90% and adjust everything by 10%.
@@BenjaminCronce 90% of 9.4 kWh is 8.46, so you can't charge a 9 kWh battery at stated rate
I've considered solar with a Tesla wall. However, I'm very uneducated and the information out there is overwhelming. On top of that most seems biased since the source of info is usually selling something. This is the most helpful, seemingly objective and informative video I've found. Thank you!!l
A lot of videos I watch on PW never factor in the cost of damage from blackouts, or worse, brownouts.
My neighborhood experiences more brownouts than blackouts, and with everything needing steady (DC) power to operate correctly, having the power dip has caused multiple failures on my hvac system. Luckily my sensitive electronics are on UPS’ already, and there are cheaper alternatives for just protecting from damage, but the piece of mind is priceless.
You use the word "safe" during an outage". As a citizen of southern Sweden, the last power outage I had was around 7-8 years ago and it lasted longer than what I have previously witness. Power was out for about 1 hour. Years before that I had smaller outages of like 5 minutes.
Not sure how long power can be out where you live in the US, but 5 min is of course nothing and an hour does not make your life go to shit either.
During my 38 years of living, the longest power outage I have witness was about 2,5 hours.
That is not a real issues either. It's not enough to thaw your freezer and you wont go mad by not beeing able to use your computer or TV during that time. Also, backup batteries or generators for the phone network last much longer than that, so you will still be able to use your phone to watch youtube, read news, log in to your bank etc etc.
If you live in a less populated area of Sweden you are not as safe. When we have storms that takes out large parts of the grid, the power companies focus on returning power to as many of the houses as possible, this means that if you live in less populated areas you will not get power back this quickly. If a tree has fallen on and broken a power line it can take a long time untill it is prioritized to be fixed.
A couple of years ago when I was working at Vattenfall (largest power company in Sweden) we had lots of customers who had been without power for over a week in the middle of the winter because of this. In this case it becomes really dangerous, you don't survive long in the winter without power. And your house will be damaged when rhings like water lines freezes.
And when it count as a natural disasters like a storm it is not covered by insurance.
No wonder Scandavia has the happiest people in the world, no long power outages! You're one of the lucky ones, remote sections of the world often deal with frequent and long outages and a battery backup can make a huge difference.
My sentiments exactly even living here in Phoenix, Arizona. The only safety problem we have with power outages here in Phoenix is when the local power company Arizona Public Service (APS) or Salt River Project (SRP) decides within its discretion to cut off the power of elderly and/or disabled people in the middle of the summer for non-payment of the electric bill. For those who might be shocked by such a notion it is actually a real thing that happens here with some regularity. With potential exception for times of extreme hot or cold weather when the HVAC system may be down, a power outage of minutes to hours is nothing but an inconvenience. A power outage of more than 24 hours might became an expense as well as an inconvenience (e.g., if perishable food in the refrigerator/freezer goes bad). You can always check-in to a motel (an expense) if the inconvenience is bothering you that terribly much. In my view, there is nothing about a typical power outage that rises to the category of safety.
My mom had COPD and her life and safety was wholly dependent on supplemental oxygen 24/7 supplied by an electric oxygen concentrator. When the power went out she would simply switch over to spare bottles of oxygen she kept in the closet in the event of a power outage.
“safe” is probably the wrong word, unless the fear is stepping on a lego in the dark or eating melted ice cream!
@@corysilkenphotography308 Don't underestimate the pain and suffering from stepping on a lego piece :D
Can not remember having no electricity ever! (Germany) but also paying very high prices 0.30€ (0.35$) is/h
Alexander L 30ct sind voll ok 👍🏼
I go without power supply every day here in my city in Nigeria.
We only get power supply sometimes at night. I dare say I have never experienced 24 hours of power supply.
damn, we in Norway pay 0.1€. And we make more money than other countries. Explains why Norway uses a shit TON of power.
I would add interest costs to your calculation. $20,000, 20% credit card interest is $4000 a year, or $333/month, 3% mortgage interest will yield $50/month. I think adding interest makes the comparison more realistic, after all you have to pay interests here or there.
In Alaska 3 years ago Homer Electric kept charging us with “estimations”, which would most of the time double our bill from one month to another. The last month we only used lights at night, did laundry/showers once a week, and made a single pot of coffee. They estimated our power usage at $417.00. This was over 4x from when we paid little attention to our usage. They told me to pay them, or they shut us off, no excuses were excepted. 3 years now living off grid, and during the summer we have to unplug our solar our it will fry the battery bank. $1,200 in a battery bank that is finally needing to be replaced due to me forgetting to plug the solar back in off and on over 3 years.
I bet he used a calculator
No he probably used a tooth brush that's how I do my accounting
very interesting and good insight. The best part and something to also consider is that even though its only got a 10 year warranty or lifespan, the power wall and even solar panels will generally last much longer albeit maybe at a reduced capacity but still be able to continue to function. That would help with justifying and getting better overall numbers.
Excellent point that most people do not consider. My warranty for panels is 25 years...but many of those panels will fail during the 25 years and will be replaced at no cost. Once you get to Year 25, you will have a largely newer set of panels through that natural attrition. Same can be said of the Tesla walls. If on Year 9 of the 10 year warranty you are producing less than 70% on a wall, it has to be replaced. You get a brand new powerwall that will serve you for 10 more years+ and by then the replacement will be much much stronger and more efficient!!!!
You cannot charge from the grid only during off peak hours if you want to receive the SGIP rebate to lower the cost of the battery. That is crucial information that should be relayed to your viewers from California who are pondering a purchase.
I am in Louisiana and recently stayed at a friend's home that had a propane powered generac for hurricane IDA. We thought we would have 22kw of usage and be fine. However, as soon as the power went out and the generac flipped on, it only stayed on for half hour before stopping working. Therefore, the generac was not reliable and we could not get anyone to come out to fix it as it was some sort of sensor issue that was not fixable without the replacement sensor.
With that said, my wife and I will be purchasing the Tesla powerwall for blackout situations as there is less moving part and factors to go wrong. Furthermore, knowing that you can use solar to refill the batteries is huge.
Wow, thanks for sharing!
This power wall is great! I got it for free so I would recommend everyone to get one
Over the last 5 years, I had one single black out. What are you doing with your grid over there?
Well it depends on where you live. You may have had 1 blackout, but here in the northeast I get blackouts fairly regularly
Look into PGE's PSPS, since they opted not to improve or upgrade the grid for decades... it's their bandaid for hopefully preventing more forest fires similar to the Camp fire that was right near where I live. We've lost power 5 times since I got our Powerwalls installed in December.
@@Ry_TSG between the nor'easters and the snow... definitely happens quite a bit up there.
It’s California.. they have no idea
Experiments. Bad ones.
I believe units like the Power Wall are very good. In the area I live (Eastern Idaho) those of us in rural areas routinely have power outages. However I plan to use VAW Turbines to suppliment the solar. (We have very good wind.)
Too many comments to sort, but in your cost when comparing to NatGas, you also want to take into account the system connection charges for gas each month (which you pay even if you only use Natgas for the backup generator, and which can be fairly significant over the course of 10 years depending on your service area). You don't have a separate cost for connection with the power wall as you already have (and have accounted for) an electric/grid utility service charge.
I'd love to avoid having to mow the dang lawn just by filling my back yard with solar panels.
cant wait to put some powerwalls into a tiny house on wheels. Rather, a stainless steel cyber house on wheels
Tesla won’t allow installation in mobile unit
it could easily blow up
Brüder + Cybertruck
I agree 100% with the powerwall assessment; however the $300 per year maintenance cost on the generac generator is untrue. The only maintenance on the generac is to check the oil. The generac starts the same time everyday and checks its system. In 4 years I spent $6.00 in oil.
I am all about getting off the grid and going to solar and I love the idea of the Tesla truck.
In Houston we worry about hurricanes and now cold weather. Power wall makes sense . However in the summer a power wall will not be able to supply enough power for AC.
First & foremost, ☀️&🔋 systems were never meant to provide a quick ROI & people need to get over that type of thinking as it was never the point. I think that any battery storage & or solar power generation system is worth it if you can afford to do so. If the longer than expected longevity of EV battery packs is anything to go by, home 🔋 storage systems could last as long as 20 or more years &, as Ben so rightly pointed out, you're left with peace of mind in the event of power outages. Car battery packs are already being given a 2nd life, repurposed for stationary storage & it's anticipated that this will expand rapidly.
For me its a sense of independence. I'm buying peace of mind and a little fun thrown in for good measure. But if I can make a little money, I'll take that too.
How valuable solar panels and batteries are if you need to replace them every 25 years? So it’s not a question of quick ROI, it’s an expense that you have to take into account as fixed costs along side of your mortgage.
@@AlainDuchesneau Well that could be said about anything and solar panels are now tending to last 30 to 40yrs if you buy good quality ones. TBC, what I meant by ROI was payback period. Also you're not taking into account the fact as rooftop solar proliferates, there's companies including Tesla, Shell, Octopus Energy in the UK, Utilities etc who'll want to integrate those systems into the grid as a means of supply & balancing it; this already happening with customers/rooftop & battery system owners being financially rewarded. As an interesting aside, recently we had EV owners being paid to charge their cars at night in the UK for customers who signed up for a pilot scheme & some US utilities have also been experimenting with this; basically new business models are slowly beginning to appear. Renewables, storage, smart grids and AI will eventually change everything.
The guy in the video is middle class. With only 2,000 usd you can get a modern gasoline generator which is over 60% quieter than standard generators AND can keep running for over 14 hours without the need to be refueled. With little to none effort, you can enjoy electricity while the grid is off. I mean, for days, weeks and even for a few months. 2,000 usd + the price of gasoline + ~200 on maintenance
per year. In most parts of the US, power outages are rare so it makes no sense to spend 14,000 dollars on 2 power walls plus another 14,000 on solar panels(that will last 20, 22 years being optimistic). So, 28,000 usd plus instalations costs. I mean, that half year income for most Americans. For some, it is 60, 70% of the yearly income. Out of reality.
@@Brandon_letsgo That's why I made a point of saying if you can afford to do so. Depending on which solar panels you choose, they can last up to between 30 & 40yrs. 30yrs is becoming fairly common as people find that theirs are still working reasonably well beyond the 25yr mark with minimal degradation in the region of 1-2%.
2.7K just for the installation ??? Am I hearing this right?
Pre-ordered 2 tesla power walls and a gateway for power during outage here in Norway five years ago, still waiting for tesla to deliver and install.
Really hope tesla get the battery production up so they can start deliver to customers outside the US....
Recently i got my set up 15 lg panels and tesla 13kwh battery and i am super happy with it, ever since it got operational 5days ago 96% of electricity came from solar+battery 4% from the grid and that was first day before i figured the settings otherwise would be 100% , and to mention that it was mostly cloudy and it rained some days and i was still be able to charge the battery to use overnight, battery never went down below 50% over night, i was very surprised to see evan on the cloudy day producing enough. It managed to supply energy for 3.5k sqft home 4ton ac fan running continuously 24/7 , 2 refrigerators , pool pumps, washer and dryer, owen and microwave plus all the lights. Its crazy. Almost forgot, also 45kwh went back to the grid all that in 5 days, impressive.
Dude. It’s Tesla not Tezla 🤦🏻♂️
Part of your data should include inflation.
The cost of your electricity in 10 years will be vastly different never mind the 25 years lifetime of the panels
Assuming what?
There's an argument that when the grid goes full renewables, the price for electricity will drop significantly. Having batteries to support the grid are already improving this.
Don't get me wrong, IMO it is brilliant that houses can be self sustained.
It doesn’t matter because he is giving date with the assumption of “if everything is apples to apples” mindset. You can inflate the prices and the percentages would still be the exact same in 10 years. Also as the other guy said, the grid companies will not want to go bankrupt so they will continue to use more renewable sources to stay competitive and still have customers in the future lowering the price of electricity OR at the very least, staying the same as their margins increase allowing them to keep the same price since now they can generate electricity at a cheaper rate in the future
reality is that you can always argue in very different ways. I could argue that he could make 10% interest on the stock market with that money instead too, then he would have made 151.000$ instead in 25 years, which sounds much better than those cost savings. But then again you might just not make 10% every year, you might as well just get 1% or even lose money.
So keeping it simple might just be a good idea :D
Good points!
In the US federal regulation limit power price increases to 15% year over year. This is well above the inflation ballpark of 2%. When I was doing the solar calculation for my last home I looked at 7 years of billing and I saw the increase every year. It was too the point where I ran it I'm my ROI.
First the renewable argument making power cheaper is incorrect. Majority of the expenses is infastruture and liability. Renewable also have a high capital cost (worth the ROI) but those cost aren't as significant as others.
All that still doesn't change two facts. It is a monopoly and they can charge you up to a certain amount every year.....why wouldn't they increase to the max amount every year. It's good business and they have shareholders.
We live in S FL so extended power outages are a reality when we get back hurricanes. We just added a Tesla 16kw solar system with 2 Powerwalls for a 2300sf home. The monthly payments for 10y financing are equal to our $350/mn average utility bill that included charging my Model 3. Absolutely a no brainier for us.
I think another big argument towards power wall compared to generators is size. In crowded neighborhoods a lot of times the lot is very small. The power wall seems like a much smaller package than a gas generator
Lol hearing that really mack me Lough hard about the setuation in syria where we have outage every 3 hours 24/7 sense 7 years now ..
This guy in Syria just wants reliable power. We do not care what kind of magic is required to make that happen.
We ordered our solar glass roof and 2 power walls recently. Just a waiting game now. Planning to move to an EV soon. Thanks for the video.
I’m happy going with three or $400 to hook up my generator to my main panel and power everything I need during an outage. Even a small air conditioning. This will get me through a few days without thousands and thousands of dollars spent
Buying Apex APX12-250 12v 250ah $350 each. A*V/1000=1kW. 1 battery 250*12/1000=3kW. 7 batteries would provide 28kW at a price of $2800. A grid tie in inverter runs $1500. Figure in another $1500 for all other hardware and hook up fees brings you to $5800. The batteries have a 10-12 year lifespan and about the same for the inverter. At 10 years it is 48.33/month. Also in 10 years I expect the price of lithium iron batteries to have come down significantly affording you to be able to replace batteries with 25 year lithium iron batteries(and your inverter). The convenient thing about the Tesla Powerwall is the size and aesthetics. I may be biased to a custom build being an electrician and having the ability to do all the labor myself.
Seems like these amortization calculations should include financing costs. Investments look a lot more attractive when you’re assuming a 0% interest rate.
and assume that your electricity rates will never increase...its PG&E...of course they'll go up.
Wow, in Spain I pay 0,05€ at night and 0,11€ at peak, I am considering to put solar panels but bateries here is not a good option
Pablo Guerra Prieto wow! That's cheap, in Italy we have a combined of 0.33€ per kilowatt
Redz CAiiF well Italy has been run by liars for at least 70 years, I guess we just accepted the fact that we can't change anything. I tried asking for a price quote regarding photovoltaic panels which was mind boggling, 18.500€ excluding the rental of scaffolding. Then I asked a quote for a air to water heat pump and a ground heat pump for heating and warm water, another 25/30.000€ for the first one and at least 70-100.000€ for the second one. Scandinavia it's just so much better for renewable energy
Redz CAiiF well in Sweden you are not allowed to do it yourself, however you get an immediate 50% discount on the final bill if you convert your house to electric with no requirements. In Italy they have now tried with the so called Bonus 110% which effectively makes it almost free. However there are a lot of requirements and you have three methods. You pay the entire sum and then you get it back in 10 years. After that you can give the credit to the bank, which means that the bank pays and gets 10% more. Finally you give the credit to the company that will ask for the money to the state. So far I'm not convinced, have a friend that is going to try. Will see how it ends
Redz CAiiF Welcome to Italy🤣
My residential numbers are vastly different. Living in northern Wisconsin, $0.12/kwh with no peak pricing, using 30kwh/day for my household, a Tesla Powerwall or similar system doesn't make financial sense right now. Neither does solar or wind. The only reason I might install one is to protect against power outages, which can be frequent in rural areas. I'm still waiting for the drastic reduction in alternative energy costs that were promised 50, 40, 30, 20, and 10 years ago.
The economics do make sense IF you keep your home for 25 years, the powerwalls don't decline substantially in storage capacity and maintenance costs remain low. Most only keep their homes for 10 years or less, however. Speaking for myself, if I owned a home, I would seriously consider installing a similar system primarily for environmental purposes. Yes, having powerwalls & solar panels WOULD likely improve resale value. Perhaps it would be helpful to look at the cost benefit balance with a 10 year resale perspective in mind...
I don't see how not having electricity for a few hours puts your family in danger (unless you need medical equipment but let's suppose not).
Depending on where you live, the water might not work. So you might not be able to flush toilets or access drinking water. Additionally, if you are working from home, it would be difficult to do your job without power to a computer. So while not necessarily life-threatening, it would be a disruption to your daily routine.
I wanted to ask this same question. Where I live the power goes out a few times a year, the only time I've ever felt unsafe was when the power was out for 4 days and it was 20°F outside. But other than that, I've never felt in danger because the power is out.
Still great a video. Nice to see real life data.
I don't think there are any safety issues per-say, beyond (as you say) medical equipment. But there is a major loss of convenience in a power outage and if it goes on more than a few hours you have to throw out the contents of your fridge. That happened to us once in CA due to the first set of major 'power safety shutoffs' which lasted 3+ days each. Several hundred dollars worth of meat had to be thrown away. The power companies probably won't repeat that, though, several million people were screaming bad words at them.
The few outages we've had since then have been far shorter and more targeted and not as inconvenient.
Unless one is trying to go completely off-grid (which is VERY expensive), power walls don't make a whole lot of sense in the U.S. from a financial perspective. Power is too reliable (even in CA). They do make sense from a utility-paranoia perspective, though. If you don't trust your utility and you don't trust that electricity rates will remain reasonable moving forwards, then a power wall goes a long way. If you live out in the boonies where power is not reliable, it makes sense. If you want to live off-grid, it makes sense (though true off-grid independence is very, very expensive), etc.
-Matt
Wow, great review with your smart unique analysis !!!
please don't hate me for this buuuuttttt. a motor turning an alternator can be electric and you could run two ac unit 480v and two meat freezer and washer dryer like a laundry on a saturday morning. for the price of one 120 using a high speed motor and beat alternator cost is like 2000 repairable and you can plug in everything because it will run like ten of them as long as it is 3 hp or full 20 amps.
Value completely depends on where you live. Cali rates can be 2 or 3 times as much as other areas of the country so it is a no brainer in Cali. There are areas in the country where it would take you 20 years to break even. It is nice to not worry about the power or gas company though.