People miss the significance of Alice willingly going to the dark place. In the first game it was emphasized so heavily how just a tiny bit of darkness made her deathly afraid, and now she dived deep into a dimension of pure darkness to save her husband. Love is Strange, Love is strong.
A tiny detail I like is that saga seems a bit more understanding of alan after spending time in the dark place. She never hated him and was always committed to getting him free, but the way she interacts with him after she gets trapped for a few minutes says, to me, that while shes obviously still not happy about the situation with her family, she understands how alan got to where he is mentally and emotionally since she was only there for a few minutes and it almost drove her crazy. She doesn't say it explicitly but her voice is kind when she calls him a hero, too. I just appreciate the acknowledgement that alan really is trying and that he's not his worst moments
Warlin Door is Saga’s father. Odin and Tor gave him to the Dark Presence during one of the first Bright Falls AWEs. When speaking with Tim Breaker at the end of the game he said he tried to follow Door’s path but it didn’t work. When the ability to profile Door appears he says that the Doors family have the power dictate where Doors go. Thus saga has both the powers of the Anderson family & the Doors family.
I agree. Also some puns from Tor "Some doors are better left unopen" lead me to that conclusion. Still, there is still so much mystery around Mr. Door that I'm still way to intreagued about that topic.
Small little note to add. Also when looking at Tim’s whiteboard in the Dark Place, you can see he mentions seeing Jesse in his dreams and her connections to polyhedrons. And when Zane and Alan are in the hotel, we see Dr. Darling and Jesse show up on screen with an ad for Night Springs. I think the expansion will follow Tim and Mr. Door with the help of Jesse/ Darling finding and containing Zane, as he showed fear and was scared when they showed up on the TV
Alan Wake 1: "It's not a lake it's an ocean" Alan Wake 2: "It's not a loop it's a spiral" Alan Wake 3: "It's not a door it's part of a wall that can open"
Though I don’t have proof I am confident that originally they casted Lance Reddick the actor for Hatch in quantum break) to be Mr. Door but with his sudden passing they had David Harewood instead. During the end game credits you even see a commemoration to Lance Reddick passing.
Yepp i felt that too. I feel Lance would’ve portrayed Door a little differently (maybe a bit more menacing but friendly until the part where he says “The mask comes off” wouldve been a cool switch in his character.) But I love David and glad to see him fit the remedy genre. Cant wait to see his cameos in future games
Agreed and with microsoft owning the rights to Hatch and Jack Joyce (TIMe BREAKER) I feel like they had to play some names off same but different Door/Hatch (if they are the same person, could just be 2 of the same "interdimensional beings") I like the theory of Door being Sagas father if its not confirmed already Going back to the copyright issue perhaps Remedy now published by Epic didnt want it to be too obvious that its supposed to be the same character. Mind you they still used Same Lake For Alex Casey (basically Max Payne which is owned by rockstar/take2)
I think I’ve got an answer as to why scratch is no longer a physical copy of Alan wake and is now just a dark cloud possessing him like a ghost. It’s because of the ending of American nightmare. Despite being a spin off and a failed attempt at writing return, Alan managed to weaken the dark presence to return to its previous form. The dark cloud. If you pay attention to that ending cutscene it’s like Alan charred the body of scratch with light only leaving a cloud of ashes flying upwards. This also proves yet again that Alan Wake’s American Nightmare is canon. The lore of control described the dark presence as a dark cloud too. So that wraps up everything in a neat little bow.
I think it just may not be scratch at all (killed fully in American nightmare) and actively the dark presence just controlling him as it has done many in the past. People touched by darkness often have periodic lapses in memory while the Presence controls them (like Jake in the Bright Falls miniseries). This is why Alan blames himself and not Scratch for haunting Alice (which we read about also in Control’s DLC)
The thing is: How do we know that Scratch ever was physically distinct from Alan? Yes, we saw both of them stand next to each other, but that was within the dark place, where that's not the weirdest thing to happen. The other time we meet him is in American Nightmare, which also takes place exclusively within the dark place. It is implied that we see what Scratch is doing the real world through the televisions, but as we are within the dark place, this could very likely just be fake. The only confirmed real world appearance of Scratch is with Alice and the photo we see in Control. But due to Alice's connection to Alan, and her having been to the dark place before, it could be possible that this was just a projection of Alan from within the dark place.
Considering what happens near the end of the game with Saga, I wonder if Scratch is the dark presence mimicking Alan's worst traits, weakening him and allowing possession
I'll add one thing about the final Alice scene - from my perspective, that cliff looked almost exactly like the cliff Alan jumped from in the first game. So it was fairly obvious to me that Alice was not dead, just in the dark place trying to help Alan.
I clocked that too. It looked like the vista from the cliff edge on diver's isle. But I didn't know whether she'd actually committed suicide or wound up in the dark place because at the time I didn't think people could just jump in the lake to get to the dark place, but had to be taken in by the dark presence. Saga, Tor and Odin disproved that notion.
To my recollection, Alice quite explicitly said in the final post-credits scene of Alan Wake 2 that she realised that the being haunting her in her apartment wasn't Scratch, but instead Alan, and so decided to frame her own death, and dive back into the Dark Place to help get Alan out. Each loop, she has dedicated herself to try to learn something new to get Alan out of the Dark Place, bit by bit.
Pretty sure Ahti’s character and why he’s a janitor is a metaphor for combatting entropy. Making sure that reality doesn’t unravel into complete chaos. Which is why he calls Jesse his assistant in Control. Basically there to keep things in order
The word for janitor in Finnish literally translates to "man of the house". This is why the director of the FBC is "merely" the janitor's assistant - he is the real god in control. Additionally the house and Cauldron lake are both part of the 'ocean of creation' which is Ahti's domain as the god of the ocean - that is why he can travel through all of these places at will. How mr. Door fits into this is still unclear.
@@valmaxianelvengod This is the first i've heard of this part of Norse mythology, thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if the allegory fits though. In Norse Mythology, Ratatoskr isn't an altruistic helper, it's a character that's driving conflict by passing slanderous messages between the eagles and the serpent Níðhöggr. I don't know that really describes Ahti as he exists in Control and AW2... I guess he could be developed into that type of character, though.
Saga IS actually named after a Norse goddess. She's one of Frigg's handmaidens, though I understand the confusion as 1.) "Saga" is also a Scandinavian word for "story," and 2.) there's debate as to whether or not the handmaidens are distinct entities or simply aspects of Frigg and her divine domains.
I agree that the nursing home and wellness center were the most terrifying parts for me. The vibe of that area ticked all of the unnerving boxes for me. Also I think the mind place and detective board mechanics are so revolutionary and satisfying, gamifying the menu system and even bringing it into the story when Saga starts to succumb to the thoughts of doubt in the dark place.
Couldn't agree more about James Mccaffrey's line delivery! Laughed out loud when he said "WHAT THE FCK HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING?!" in the projector booth.
On Zane, something I dont see spoken of much is the REASON he's a filmaker now and not a Poet. Bluntly, everything happening is Zane's fault when he tried to use the Dark Place to bring back Barbara. He broke story conventions and took shortcuts...like films often do. Zane's still the one pulling the strings, he just lacks the creativity or even the selflessness needed to get free. He erased himself from the world, but kept himself in the story as "the poet everyone forgot" but didnt forget.
Zane is not pulling any strings, he’s with barbara in his baby universe since the start of Aw1, everything we see about Zane from there (besides his books on the cabin) its Alan and Scratch using his persona to increment the story.
Just a couple of additional notes 1. There’s a manuscript page that mentions how Rose is the one to take Zane’s lamp from Cynthia’s room and send it to the dark place in a shoebox via the pond at the carehome. Cynthia loved Tom and losing the lamp made her finally give into despair so the dark prescence could take her over. 2. In one of the FBC files it is stated that The Lake House is the FBC’s main base of operations in Bright Falls but was unfortunately taken over by the darkness, perhaps we’ll get some more Control crossover in that DLC too!
@@eden20111 Rose is obsessed enough with Alan to leave Alex Casey lunchboxes around for a Hero that may or not show up, sending a lamp into a lake for him is very much in her wheelhouse
One thing that got me excited is hearing that the FBC HQ, or the Old House, has gone dark (found in a note inside the locked cell before the final act). This makes me wonder if they're still dealing with the Hiss in the internal lockdown, or if something else happened that would lead to a sequel. It's also interesting to note that Jesse can be seen in flashes during Alan's section, and is referenced on Breaker's whiteboard.
I suppose the HQ went dark might refer to the Lake House, like local HQ. And the Lake House DLC will be about that. But I thought about the oldest house while I was still playing the game when I found that piece of note.
I think the flashes we see of Jesse correlate with the AWE DLC in Control. There’s a scene in the Oceanview Motel where she opens a door and glimpses in on the conversation Zane and Wake are having!
We already know there's a Control sequel coming so it could be a nod towards that. Though it could also as others pointed out be talking about the Lake House HQ there in Bright Falls. The Hiss invasion has largely been dealt with by the end of Control and I can't imagine that would take multiple more years to finish cleaning up. Considering Control takes place in 2019 and AW2 takes place this year in 2023.
@@lexxnewton "I suppose the HQ went dark might refer to the Lake House, like local HQ" - nah. One of the Taken late in the game screams at the top of her lungs "THE OLDEST HOUSE HAS GONE DARK!".
This game makes me realize that Saga and Alan's stories intersect in more subtle ways. Like the ending of Hotel 665 directly correlates to Cynthia Weaver being taken over by the dark presence. The victim in the bath tub was the muse, and the play is Tom Zane's work, who was Cynthia's lover at one point. The bathtub is exactly the same kind in Cynthia's room at Valhalla Nursing Home.
I caught that on my NG+ run. Love how so much makes sense the second time. Had a few moments of appreciation where things were tied together nicely after knowing how it plays out the second time.
Just rolled credits on Alan Wake 2 & while it did get a little messy at the end this game is nothing short of a 10/10 masterpiece. While it is the masterful sequel to AW1 its also a celebration of Remedy & how they write stories their characters and set the tone for what's ahead. Taking bits and pieces from OG Max Payne 1 & 2 even the great and underappreciated Quantum Break and of course Control. Not only can i not wait for where Alan Wake goes from here but what insanity Control 2 will be.
I came for the dark place shenanigans but everything else I kinda tuned out. Combat was ok, story is good but not my thing, and the game just feels a tiiiny bit too long having to play both sides. I'd give the alan half a solid 8 but sagas I would say was a 6 for me. But I'm super happy almost everyone is satisfied with the game and the devs got the praise they clearly deserve. I'm not usually into these kinda narratives but I wanted to give it a chance and I don't regret it even with my issues.
After 100% the game I think I still like Control a tiny bit more but still both are so close to perfection it's not worth making the distinction. Alan Wake 2 is probably my favorite horror game and makes me wish Konami would sell the Silent Hill IP to Capcom. Control is a perfect blend of 3rd person action and trippy adventure w/ a healthy dose of Metroidvania.
@@BaytuhI gotta play more of Hi Fi Rush. I really dig character action and the art style alot but I struggle with "staying on beat" style of gameplay.
One more note: Maybe Zane and Wake look the same because Wake is Zane's creation. He has overwritten himself in his attempt to rescue. He was constantly doing so, as we know Tom the Poet and Tom the Director, Tom the Diver. It seems Thor and Odin have the power to resist reality overwriting. Thor remembered that Logan is alive even when Alex Casey was affected by the story. That's why Thor and Odin keep referring to Alan as Tom.
Except we know that the Dark Place and the writing can't create reality, only change what's already there. That's why a popular fan theory is that Thomas Zane is Alan's father or of some familial relation to him.
@@alezio299 Yup, that's what I said. It can CHANGE or alter reality - it can't create it. It can't create a person. Saga's daughter already existed before she was written into Return, the story didn't create Logan. Much in the same way, Zane *can't* have created Alan. He can *influence* him and reality around him, but he can't have created him.
@@moonlitxangel5771 I always think Tom is Alan's dad since the first game. Or Tom change his name to Alan Wake, so they are both the same person, just at a different time.
I have a voice acting background and have to say that Matthew Porretta's performance has been such an inspiration for me since the first game. The vocal training was really tough, sometimes without noticeable results for months but actors like him and the late Kevin Conroy are a great impulse to not give up. You almost saw me as Leon in those new RE games :) Excellent video btw. That kind of insighful content is refreshing :)
@@chill_muffin7858 haha, i noticed the same thing. I saw this comment the previous video. almost went back to it to check if my mind was playing tricks... (btw. Ironic, since it fits the game perfectly)
@@Spl1FF--38fr I’ve seen his comments somewhere else, can’t tell if it was from an Alan Wake video or not but it spooked me for a split second. Made me question myself. Very on theme
I love reading the manuscripts knowing Alan did not write Return, Scratch did. When you view the manuscript pages, the typed text is Scratch, the handwriting is Alan. If the entire page is typed with no handwriting, it's a page Alan wrote and inserted into Scratch's story. Basically, Scratch never wrote anything about Saga. If it names or helps Saga (or kills her daughter), Alan wrote it. Also, a meeting with Tim Breaker refers to Quantum Break as an alternate reality. I believe this has also been Sam Lake's way of talking about what's canon and I take Tim's comment as fact. Control and Wake are in the same world, and the stuff they don't own the rights to exist in a similar but different world out there in the multiverse somewhere. Lastly, Lake House DLC will be Control-centric, given it's their facility. Night Springs has been announced to feature multiple protagonists, so it might be Alan, Alice and maybe Tim in the Dark Place being messed with by Mr Door.
@Baked259 Correct. And, from the perspective of the characters of Wake/Control, the world of Quantum Break is an 'alternate reality'. With Tim Breaker and Mr Door as 'echoes' of Jack Joyce and Mr Hatch.
I thought they revealed close to the end that it was Alan all along writing Return when he shoots himself in the head just like it was Alan haunting Alice, not Mr Scratch. This is similar to The Writer episode from Alan Wake 1 where there are multiple Alans. Right after that he gets taken by the Dark Presence and escapes to the beach. But the thing is that Alan is encouraged by Tom Zane to write, but he himself says that he shouldn't be writing. I think this Tom Zane is a manifestation of the Dark Presence tricking Alan to write so that it can escape the Dark Place while possessing him. Thoughout the walls in the Dark Place you can see messages with the text "Don't write" which based on the mid credits scene point to Alice having left them for Alan.
Someone could easily make an hour long video just on the influence of twin peaks on this game. (Alomg with true detective honestly) Which would be good because I doubt many people who play this game have watched twin peaks. All the way down to our protagonist being stuck in a dark place (black lodge) and an evil doppelganger emerging from it (Mr C). They even had the "roadhouse presents" part with ahti singing on the stage. It's like a huge loveletter to the things they like.
One of the posters for a Thomas Zane film seen in the city lists the year of production as 1970, but 'based on the book by Alan Wake'... This made me think about Alan's identity, that while Zane wrote himself out of reality - 'the poet everyone forgot' - and is supposedly existing happily ever after somewhere with Barbara Jagger, he also rebirthed/ re-envisioned himself back into reality as Alan Wake. 🤔 Wake then created Zane the filmmaker to help him get out of the Dark Place once he found himself antagonised in the exact same way by the Dark Presence). Hence why they look the same and the Andersons/ Ahti refer to Wake as 'Tom', since they remember the 'original' man. Alan does not seem to understand why because he has forgotten his own self. There's also an identity theft poster in the subway which reads, 'You may not be the only You.' But - 'it's not a [cyclical] loop, it's a spiral'. It's not a return, it's a corruption. Zane's spiral, Zane's corruption. Hence why he [spoilers] tells himself via payphone at the end that he will escape the Dark Place and he simultaneously won't, and that he's sorry for everything he will need to suffer through. In the film projected in Room 665, Zane refers to 'THE LABYRINTH OF ME'. And after Alan/ Scratch shoots him, [spoilers] he comes back to life. The 'Drowning' Writer's Journey video also made me consider this possibility more. He can't ever write himself out of the story, because not his story really - it's Zane's. If this is a viable theory, perhaps the next incarnation in the 'spiral' would be a character Wake creates and becomes 'the writer people forgot' so that 'the journey into the night continues'. This is perhaps 'the ritual' to lead you on; your friends will meet him when you're gone. 'Scratch' was the Dark Presence's means of forcing this step when Alan refused to continue writing. Plenty of the characters imply they are playing roles in a much grander design; Mr. Door remprimands Alan at the end of We Sing - that he should play his part. Zane is also described as depressed before meeting Barbara Jagger. Alan is similiarly desribed as manic-depressive, with anger issues. Also, Cynthia is to Zane as Rose is to Alan. And Tom's lamp and Alan's Clicker are interlinked. 🤔 Obviously this is all my own fantasy of how the story's logic is supported. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.
@@Brandon_Moves_You I'm sure there are holes to pick in it. 😵 What bugs me is that there is a paradoxical question of how Wake fit Saga into Return. He uses his fictional character of Alex Casey to bring the real FBI Alex Casey to Bright Falls, who puts Saga in charge. Alan first meets Saga in the Overlap and then alters the story to make her the hero. But in order for him to meet her in the overlap and make her the hero, that needed to have already been written in Return, hence the first manuscript page they find at the Overlap which directly describes their involvement. So who REALLY wrote Saga into the story... 🤔 It's not a spiral... It's a quantum break. 🤯 Tim Breaker [TIME Breaker] and Mr. Door [Mr. Hatch from QB] are maybe key characters in the future.
my mind is blown away by all these comments and theories, but yours is a nice one. I'm quite convinced that even the writers of the game's story are actually looking up ideas in the community to come up with what the actual fuck is going to happen next and find out some answers themselves. there was also another convincing theory someone mentioned here that Mr. Door is in fact saga's father, that would really make sense too.
This is actually really similar to my understanding of Zane's presence in the story. Reading your take has made it easier for my brain to comprehend the whole thing. Thanks for the migraine, Remedy! P.S. I think Saga is "easily written" into the story since she is an Anderson - therefore Zane and Wake's writings don't affect the Andersons as they do others.
This is a really cool theory! It's a lot more complex than what I had in mind. My theory throughout the game was that Tom Zane is Alan Wake's father. It would explain why they look so similar. We know the clicker is connected to the lamp. The lamp belongs to Zane and the Clicker belonged to Alan's father so I though it fit pretty well. Especially since Zane disappeared in the 70's and Alan was born in the 70's so it's definitely possible Zane had a fling with Alan's mom. You're theory gives me a lot to think about though.
As someone who absolutely loved Control, it does me good to see my favorite paradimensional janitor. Stan Ahti in this house. Him helps with dah clogs.
@@HunterForHire422 Ahti is a big part of Control. A lot of Control stuff in AW2. Not quite as atmospheric with environments but the combat and story are VERY good. If you get a chance to pick it up should be pretty cheap now and I would recommend.
I’m not a fan of playing Horror games, or watching horror movies. But I love analytics like this because the lore for these games is so wildly interesting.
I still have not seen anyone else mention that the things the shadows whisper and taunt Alan with are the things he himself said in that one writer's journey video where he was clearly descending into hopeless madness; I write and I write and I write, I'm drowning, this isn't your story, I'm lost in the dark etc; ALL OF IT is from Alan's ravind. I feel like that's gotta be significant somehow EDIT: it's confirmed that those are versions of alan and I feel so validated lol
They also all have Alan's face and are wearing outfits we've seen Alan wear, or outfits from Stephen King's works. (Axe shade Alan wears the raincoat from Into the Mouth of Madness' axe murder at the 3/4s mark, Knife shades are wearing the hitchhiker outfit from the intro of AW1) They are Alan in failed loops. Built up over 13 years. When he fails he's overtaken by the Presence
@@QuestionableLifeChoices the distortion moves on a delay compared to the shades. if you dodge into them while they move, you can clearly see Alan's face for a third of a second or so
Just finished the game last night! My game of the year for sure! Post-Game thoughts: I definitely thought that there would be a reveal that Saga and Casey were never real at all since I forgot about the rule that Alan needed to use pre-existing elements and couldn’t make stuff from nothing.
I also agree that I enjoyed Saga’s far more due to the convoluted aspect of Alan’s and the vibe that you were finding out the insane story along with her. I also really liked her police magic.
I also wish that David got some characterization or at least a photo, since it felt odd that Saga didn’t despair at her marriage failing at all in the horror story.
That ending though 😮 reminds me of The Last of us' Cliffhanger ending Edit. I just got the Platinum trophy like 3 minutes ago. Pretty easy if want a Plat.
@@efrenyalung1348really? I enjoyed Sagas sections a lot, but all things considered, it's pretty standard survival horror experience. Most of the unique and interesting stuff comes from Alns sections, i think years from now, I'm going to be remembering things like the talk show segments, especially the musical, more than anything in Sagas sections
@@bingusdingus39 I will say that this was my first survival horror game that I completed, so that definitely flavoured my experience. I do agree that the musical segment specifically has stuck with me long after finishing the game.
Mr. Door being Sagas's father explains why it was so easy for her to exit the dark place while it took Alan 13 years. I was hung up on why it was so easy, but it being a power of her heritage makes it click nicley in my head.
The running theory is that Warlin Door is Saga's absent father. Explains the exposition he gave of him only doing this because Alan brought someone he loved into the story. Also explains how he and Saga can both wander the Dark Place freely.
Departure is act 1 of the Hero's Journey. Alan wanted to skip straight to Act 3, presumably because he's scared and alone, trapped past that threshold and isn't prioritizing the most important part of the journey - the lessons learned. He tries to right Return, and it fails over and over again. He realizes he's missing something, and needs to write Initiation as that second act before he can get to Act 3 (all of which is more or less explained in the text of the game), however, what if Initiation AND Return as we know them are actually just Act 2, and that act keeps repeating and changing (being a spiral), but we have not yet seen Act 3. I strongly suspect Remedy is planning an Alan Wake 3, and I wouldn't be surprised if Alice figures heavily into it. I think it's possible that everything we see in Alan Wake 2 is one of the rotations of the spiral of Act 2 - Initiation and Return - somewhere in the middle or near the end; since the game itself loops. What Alice has been seeing, haunting her, is literally Alan (as he returns to Parliament Tower over and over again). But the end-credits scene makes it seem like she actually didn't kill herself, and instead decided that she needed to trick Alan into *thinking* that she killed herself because he was haunting her, for one reason or another. But she says that she went into the Dark Place... I think Act 3 may wrap up some of the questions from this game: What was Alice planning, and how did Alan figure into it - because we know that he calls himself from some other point in the timeline to tell him to place Alice's photos in the box. We also know that Ahti said Alan (well, he said Tom, but, you know) asked him to leave the lamp (referred to as "Tom's Lamp" a few times) and the photographs in the shoebox in the basement. Paraphrasing Ahti, "what you leave behind is in front of you when you return". What we're seeing feels like an orchestration, Wake, Saga, Casey, and all the others playing out a story that has already been finished some-when else.
We have been blessed in gaming this year! Alan Wake 2, Tears Of The Kingdom, Baldur's Gate 3, Dead Island 2, Dead Space Remake, Mario Wonder, Ect. I'm just hyped to see 2024!
The third overlap with Cynthia is so intense. I had to take my headphones off and play without listening as you’re going through the bunker corridors. I think because it’s so narrow and you are turning back on yourself, in a normal horror move trope there would be something standing there… alas Remedy probably knew this so there was no jump out. Also by far the worse jump scare is if you went upto the old lady (Cynthia) on the second floor window at the nursing home.This is prior to knowing she is the taken, and says something like ‘you’re going to enjoy this my dear’. JUMP-SCARE .Literal heart palpitations afterwards.
I think it was confirmed that the DLC lake house will have to do with the FBC and the research station that they have in Cauldron Lake (at the beginning of the game, there is a fence with a buzzer that you can't get through that belonged to the FBC). In the case of night springs, I think it'll have to do more with Tim Breaker and Mr. Door, since that was one of the biggest mysteries of the game that was not completely on the main plot.
@@LordShrubYeah, it's like a mixture of Pokemon Go and Snap where she walks around taking photos of Taken until she accidentally walks off a cliff while looking through the camera. Writes itself, honestly.
Towards the ending, Saga calls the board in her mind place 'The Board'. My only wish is that they had explained what exactly Alan was trying to accomplish by contacting Jesse on the AWE expansion. or that there were more references to Hartman being destroyed by the FBC and Jesse.
damn, I finished the game and I said "ok, maybe in a week gingy will upload the video so I can tied things up with the story". This is a pleasant surprise!
Okay I will correct you on the expansions. Likely have it twisted. Lake House will definitely deal with the Lake House FBC Facility on Cauldron Lake that Estevez mentioned that was overrun with the Dark Presence, perhaps eluding to Control related stuff, whereas Night Springs may relate to the actual main plot of the game.
Night Springs will probably be tied to Breaker and Door. Or maybe Alan. Alan wrote for it and Door seems to have a connection. So maybe Breaker looking for him
The reason people believe Night Springs will be FBC related is because a television in the Dark Place (featured in one of the live action cutscenes with Thomas Zane) had the Night Springs title card which briefly flashed to images of Jesse Faden and Dr Darling. I honestly think both DLCs will tie in the FBC. The Lakehouse is a shoe in because its an FBC facility and Night Springs because of that cutscene hint.
@@habadasheryjones One issue with that imo is that they tend to not do things for no reason and I've seen others point out that when you find Tim Breaker in the Dark Place as Alan the song he's humming is the theme song for Night Springs. To have Tim connected to it in that way and then NOT have him as part of the DLC focused around Night Springs is a huge miss imo. Not to mention the clear connection they're trying to make between Breaker and Door (admittedly they could just be doing that part as a tie-in with Quantum Break/Joyce/Hatch but that doesn't explain the Night Springs part of it.
Gingy i doubt you'll see this but ive been around since the For Honor days and Im so happy to see your success dude. The channel has exploded since you transitioned to essay-style content and as someone whos been around since the old days its crazy to see. Happy for you, keep it up
*Lake House. It's specifically their outpost in the Cauldron Lake area. (You can actually find the entrance to the facility at the beginning of the game if you head near directly south from the General Store. It's labeled as "FBC Buzzer" on the map once you interact with it.)
This is going to be the case, but I'm hoping Sam Lake pulls a 90 degree turn and it's about Alan Wake trying to write Keanu Reeves movie fanfiction from inside the Dark Place.
Here from the future the new game plus did infact add several clarifications to the story. You can always look them all up, but one of the biggest ones is that it pretty much confirms door is saga’s father. We also learn a bit about how tor and odin made up with mr door.
I'll be coming back to this when I have the time. But I'd love if you went back and analyzed Control and/or Quantum Break. I feel like as much as I didn't fully understand their stories, I still recognized their impact on this game's story and wanted to revisit them myself. Always love your commentary and impressions, so I'm glad this video is dropping so soon after I'd finished it.
What an incredible game. I loved the Musical segment. It was so goofy, fun. But creepy. You could feel the dark place, Scratch, Mr.door… whoever… you could feel them mocking Alan as he hopelessly press forward
Overlaps are where the veil between our reality and dark place is thin and both realities are grinding against each other. Also its a fucking survival horror game. So not fighting enemies all the time makes sense. Instead that time is used to build tension and the game does this amazingly well.
Alan Wake is so much like Twin Peaks now in the literal sense that the first two seasons are good but the third season is ABSOLUTELY 10x better but requires you to watch it all. This game gives off that same vibe, that you gotta grind through the first one to get to the really good one. I'm not gonna finish this video lol I wanna play the games now
I disagree. I love the first third of this game. The rest is not bad but just not as good to me. Except for the opening of the middle part for Alan’s campaign, that is the peak 😂
Surprised you brought up the True Detective connection, but not the Twin Peaks connection! So much Twin Peaks inspiration all over this game, from the general setting with its trees and log cabins, to the plot of an FBI agent (or two) coming to a small town to investigate a supernaturally connected murder, to the doppelgangers, to the parallel evil dimension, to the wicked possessive spirit, to the enthusiasm for coffee. That shot of the two detectives drinking their coffee in tandem then turning to their perp is so incredibly Twin Peaks-esque. Anyway, great video and really helped me organize my own thoughts in sparsing through all the chaos and surrealism.
Media literate lol no its more a test if your a smooth brained duncecap. The writing of this.game is legendary status for how awful saga is, she is the most bland, souless, and boring character ive seen in awhile. But i guess people liked the new star wars and the horrid marvel movies like doctor strange 2 so i suppose it makes sense that some people would think its amazing.
Which is why you're watching a video literally explaining the story to you? Because you're soooooo media literate that you needed to watch a youtube ending explained video about something you absolutely 100% understand so well that you're claiming it's a good test for media literacy? Something you literally don't even understand yourself? People need to stop sucking the dicks of stories that are super convoluted and claiming that something is a masterpiece just because it's insanely complicated. Sorry, it's not some masterpiece that defines if you're media literate or not, it's just a kind of mediocre game that bit off way more than it could chew story wise and had a truly awful ending.
Super good analysis man. I just finished the game this morning and I feel like the ending was satisfying enough that trying to piece everything together all game and not knowing what the actual fck was going on made it all worth it and make SOME KIND of sense. I really liked the idea that Alice kind of deceived Alan by faking her s*icide to give him some kind of motivation to become the hero who takes the fall at the end. Really good stuff. Wonderful game. Looking forward to the next installment!
Story will continue not with Dlc but with the New Game+. As you said this is a spiral and apparently playing New Game+ (continuing the spiral) will give us the true ending
Could we get a follow-up video discussing how the game changes when you play the NG+ gamemode with the new manuscripts and dialogue and what the NG+ ending means for the series?
This is something that I imagined what games would be like when I got older as a kid. Way back when I played N64 and saw that someday games would be lifelike and cinematic but cinematic in a way that cinema isn’t capable of being, like in a physical way. Absolutely incredible game technically and immersive story with a pretty seamless world. I’ve experienced some bugs but nothing game breaking. It’s a game I didn’t know I needed. Idk this game is probably the first game on the current gen of consoles where I see a real leap forward. It’s hard to express just how much I love this game. Excellent video. I’m on my fourth play through and I wanted to watch a video that would help orient me in the story. It’s not so much confusing as it’s a lot to digest, the game that is. I needed some outside input to know I’m not losing my mind trying to trace threads that seem to go nowhere and everywhere all at once.
I just finished the game and I did both Saga's and Alan Wake's stories at the same time (every time there was an overlap and they communicated, I'd switch characters to see the other perspective leading up to that moment) but I don't recommend it for anyone else. I wish I had completed Saga's story then finished Alan's all the way to the end as the set ups and pay offs would've been a lot more impactful.
Bought remastered along with Alan wake 2 yesterday on ps5. Gonna go thru 1 and then American nightmare on one x. Then hop back on ps5 for AW2. Got the deluxe edition so season pass too. And on a new psn ID as well for solo game trophy hunting Watching this at work and enjoying it a lot. You seem very chill at doing commentary. I’m still working on that part myself
Regarding Cynthia, the reason she fell to the dark presence is because Alan told rose take the angel lamp from her bedroom, and throw it into the the overlap in the pond. That's how he got it in the dark place...
Important objects traveling seemingly through time travel is probably explained by how in a spiral, at any point in time, you are close to another adjacent point in the spiral, unlike in a loop. This bleedthrough explains the impression of a loop
Oh i took spiral as in layers like the dark place has different layers to it and Alan, Saga, Alex and Alice just beat one like Alan did in the first game. They need to go deeper to get out completely.
I think that's an equally valid way of looking at it. Either way, the "Spiral" means that despite seemingly going through loops over and over again, each "phase" or "layer" as you said changes. The more phases they get through, the closer they are to getting out. The DLC's and (quite probably) a 3rd game will certainly wrap it up that way, I think.
I took the spiral comment from Alice as Alan has been spiraling downward with his writing. She said there were two ways out, ascension or descention. I think Alan had already been going deeper. What he thought was a loop was always a spiral. Every time he thought he was backtracking in the Dark Place, it wasn't exactly the same. It was getting worse every time. His decension was providing a way out, but it was a way out that Scratch wanted. If he changes the way he writes, I believe he can reverse the spiral and finally ascend from the Dark Place like Alice wants.
I so wanted Jesse to rock up at some point. It's interesting that the FBC we encounter in this game seems to be separate from The Oldest House, which has 'gone dark'. TOH was still locked down after Control ended, so are the Hiss still causing issues, or is there a new threat?
I managed to play this game for 40 hour because I loved exploring the world so much. I couldn’t get through Alan Wake 1 but good lord am I glad I tried this game. What an incredible experience
I never played Alan Wake 1 in 2010 and I just played it for the first time this year. It took me almost 2 months to get through Alan Wake Remastered because I hated the gameplay so much. Im so glad I stuck with it though because Alan Wake 2 is one of the best game I've ever played.
I wonder if the whole murder during the production part was inspired by "The Crow", where a gun meant to be unloaded was accidentally left loaded and the main actor was actually killed?
35:31 To add onto the whole”powers thing” She is the granddaughter of the character “Tor Anderson” with her mother being Freya, and Saga is a term often used for old stories. So her name is linked to her abilities to see the story from a wider lens, despite being a character in the story at the same time. It’s bewildering to find a Norse mythology element in a story like Alan Wake 2. Edit: you already mentioned it literally 3 minutes later :P Ah well, still interesting to see the Norse element from it!
God I love Remedy. Control is among my personal top games and AW2 is now right there as well. Enjoyed almost every minute but especially Alan´s parts. I dunno what is wrong with me but I love being in Dark Place NYC in the same way I loved being in The Oldest House. No windows. No sky. No nature, just pure interior creativity.
Okay, Mr Scratch dies in American Nightmare. No one calls Scratch "Mr Scratch" in AW2. its just Scratch. This is because they are similar but different entities that alan believes are the same. Mr Scratch is the negative rumors of Alan made manifest. Scratch is the Dark Presence meat puppetting Alan. Theyre similar but different. There are two characters named Scratch, one Mr, one just Scratch.
My one and only criticism is the game play additions such as trying to be more resident evil and silent hill-like. I like those franchises, but I played the two original games, and I'm expecting a third one that plays pretty much the same, but just bigger and better looking, kind of like what I got with Psychonauts 2. Other than that I had so much fun and I'm so happy that the new game plus continues the story.
I LOVED when i realized all the shadow taken in the dark place were saying lines from alan's breakdown. I dont know what that means exactly but it was such a creepy reframing of the enemies in the area
I just finished the campaign and it was amazing, probably one of the best games I’ve played this year. There was one big issue for me though. 13 years in the dark place, and Alan couldn’t take 5 minutes to smash Rose after she saved his ass at the end of the game.
Alan Wake 1: "It's not a lake it's an ocean" Alan Wake 2: "It's not a loop it's a spiral" Alan Wake 3: *Wakes up in a wagon. It's cold. You see a Imperial soldier and a Nordic prisoner.* "Hey, you!" the nordic exclaim. "Finally wake" *cuts to black screen*
To OP, there's a mistake in your video - Cynthia Weaver got taken because Rose took her lamp. It wouldn't surprise me if Rose ends up being possesed by the Dark Presence.
I would like to see Gingy make a video on the story of Ender Lilies, even though the game released 2 years ago. It’s an underrated game that deserves more attention
I didn't really care for how the flashlight works now either. I feel like they should have keep it where you have to hold it but just get rid of the recharge, that way the battery packs would still have a use.
When I saw the intertwining of Saga and Casey's roles reminiscent of Rust and Marty in the first season of True Detective, I felt rather compelled to make a strong response, which also includes some of my views on Remedy and Sam Lake's creative approach. In True Detective, the weight of the characters' motivations comes from our real-life experiences that interweave with the characters' situations, such as why, when we see the montages of Marty and Rust describing their life experiences when they reunite ten years later, we can empathize with the intrinsic patterns of life. Time is a flat circle, as Rust puts it; if you abstract the perspective to the inherent patterns of human nature, life is just an overlay of a few meta narratives. As a composite entity of human experiences, we can only excel in one thing throughout our lives. In Alan Wake 2, we continuously hear Alan articulating the line such as "It took me thirteen years to escape from the dark place," but we know nothing about his life in that eldritch reality because Alan's life in the game is portrayed as an overlay of a few amusement devices - one moment descending from a roller coaster, the next instantly teleporting to a giant swing. Similarly, the character motivation of Saga in the "real world" lacks cohesion; the challenges she faces in the game can be summarized comprehensively with just one song. In my opinion, Sam Lake is an imaginative game creator; in Alan Wake 1, his imagination was confined to the framework of Stephen King, and when he attempts to referecing Hemingway at the beginning of Alan Wake 2, his diligence to portray characters seems somewhat unsatified in nature. As for all, Remedy's recent works have focused more on superpowers rather than articulating us the player to some real-life experiences.
“How something from the past can be sent forward in time to the present” to understand this all you have to do is look at the shape of a spiral 🌀 … now if you grab a pen and cross a straight line through it, from the outside circumference to the center (inside) or vice versa, you can connect not just the past with the present, but multiple points in time as well
To some of the stuff mentioned in the video. Regarding Cynthia according to the ingame info given she was actually fine even when growing old because she had the angel lamp which the clicker is a part of. According to the info given even though the angel lamp never shined a light it gave of an invisible light that worked as a forcefield shutting out the dark presence making it impossible for it to draw closer. However Alan/Scratch contacted Rose that worked at the nursing home and one of the missions given to Rose was to steal the angel lamp and put it into a shoebox thus sending it into the dark place. After this everything that happened to Cynthia came to happen. Mr Door is Warlin Door the lover of Freya and the father of Saga Andersson. Warlin somehow became an entity (or always was) similar to the Dark Presence called Mr Door that supossedly can travel freely through dimensions. How he became Mr Door I don't know since I read some who mentioned Tor + Odin sacrificed Warlin to the Dark Presence by sending him to the Dark Place to save Freya where he then later became an entity called Mr Door. While others say he became the entity called Mr Door while together with Freya and Tor + Odin feared him and somehow cut a deal with him to go away which broke Freya's heart and made her leave with Saga. What is clear however is that Mr Door appears in the game seemingly because of Saga as a way to help her. There is some speculation that Saga holds the power of both the Anderson family who can seemingly see the past, the present and the future among other things and the power of Mr Door who can freely move between dimensions. Saga's name is actually in line the the god names the Anderson family all have while saga the word means tale/story Saga the name means "She who see's" and while not much is mentioned about her Saga the goddess does exists though many believe she is just another name used to describe Frigg. However Saga the goddess is usually thought to be a seeress and is associated with water mentioned to have lived close by or on top of a lake.
The actual way to understand this story is to organize it like Saga's investigation board, continue adding details and answer questions until it clicks.
Mr scratch js Alan, the darkness of Alan the “evil” to put it into words. In American nightmare scratch assumes the form of Alan to taunt him, to show what what he fully wants ( alans real body). When scratch was destroyed in AN we see him become smoke and formless. Scratch Is a formless monster a representation of the true darkness in all of us and what could happen if we let it out. This is also explained in his theme song Dark twisted and cruel
Dude, what a video! +1 sub :-) 14:48 Although I liked so much what the Remedy did with the duo protagonist system in the game, I don't think it would be well suited in TLOU2. IMO the Remedy did this way because the gameplay with Saga/Alan may be too boring if we played with no stop, while in TLOU2 the Naughty Dog did that way with the intention to give us a feeling of duality about who's right in that story.
I'm about half way through this video, had a couple thoughts I wanted to share about Alan's visions. When he and Saga are finally able to talk in Saga's Mind Place, he realizes that they're more than just inspirations, they're something more real. However, I wouldn't necessarily say that they're all things which happened in real life / the waking world. That conversation in particular is psychic and happens inside Saga's head. She accesses her psychic visions through a mental technique, he accesses his through spontaneous inspiration in times of need. Her psychic abilities appear to be because of her heritage (having come from the Andersen Brothers, who were touched by the Dark Presence, but also being (probably) the daughter of Warlin Door, who was ALSO touched by the Dark Presence). I don't remember if this was in the game or some speculation I heard, but somebody somewhere pointed out that Alice may be able to see Wake (Scratch) because she too was touched by the Dark Presence. It seems like interaction with the unnatural entity (directly or indirectly, because we know Saga's mother also had the gift) has caused their consciousnesses to somehow extend past the mundane world, and allowed them to access information that's specific to them from *somewhere else*, or some-when else. "Time doesn't matter here" was almost certainly said by someone in the game, I think Tim, and it's a good point. Everything that happens in the Dark Place doesn't necessarily align with things happening in the waking world, and vice versa. Wake experiences all of Initiation, including all of the interactions with Saga in her Overlaps before appearing on the beach, which means they all happen before Saga enters the second Overlap. I don't really have a point, just throwing these thoughts out there.
I believe it's brought up in the game (or I saw the same theory you did) that Alice can see Alan due to her own time in the Dark Place (because she was in the Dark Place before Alan wrote her out). So she still has a connection to it and to Alan since he's there.
People miss the significance of Alice willingly going to the dark place. In the first game it was emphasized so heavily how just a tiny bit of darkness made her deathly afraid, and now she dived deep into a dimension of pure darkness to save her husband. Love is Strange, Love is strong.
A tiny detail I like is that saga seems a bit more understanding of alan after spending time in the dark place. She never hated him and was always committed to getting him free, but the way she interacts with him after she gets trapped for a few minutes says, to me, that while shes obviously still not happy about the situation with her family, she understands how alan got to where he is mentally and emotionally since she was only there for a few minutes and it almost drove her crazy. She doesn't say it explicitly but her voice is kind when she calls him a hero, too. I just appreciate the acknowledgement that alan really is trying and that he's not his worst moments
It feels like this is in line with the core of the game. A deep metaphor for therapy, shadow work and dark nights of the soul. 🤔
Warlin Door is Saga’s father. Odin and Tor gave him to the Dark Presence during one of the first Bright Falls AWEs. When speaking with Tim Breaker at the end of the game he said he tried to follow Door’s path but it didn’t work. When the ability to profile Door appears he says that the Doors family have the power dictate where Doors go. Thus saga has both the powers of the Anderson family & the Doors family.
I agree. Also some puns from Tor "Some doors are better left unopen" lead me to that conclusion.
Still, there is still so much mystery around Mr. Door that I'm still way to intreagued about that topic.
Yea I was thinking this as well, there is dlc planned and I hope they go into this more
I thought this too.
Small little note to add. Also when looking at Tim’s whiteboard in the Dark Place, you can see he mentions seeing Jesse in his dreams and her connections to polyhedrons. And when Zane and Alan are in the hotel, we see Dr. Darling and Jesse show up on screen with an ad for Night Springs. I think the expansion will follow Tim and Mr. Door with the help of Jesse/ Darling finding and containing Zane, as he showed fear and was scared when they showed up on the TV
Makes sense,
Alan Wake 1: "It's not a lake it's an ocean"
Alan Wake 2: "It's not a loop it's a spiral"
Alan Wake 3: "It's not a door it's part of a wall that can open"
Alan Wake 4: It's not a theory. It's a game theory.
@@misterhoobomaster *correction* its not a theory it's a speculation lol
Alan Wake 5: “it’s not a hole in the ground, it’s an ass”
Alan Wake 6: “It’s not a house. It’s a whole neighborhood ”
Alan Wake 7: "It's not an earthquake, its your mom"
Though I don’t have proof I am confident that originally they casted Lance Reddick the actor for Hatch in quantum break) to be Mr. Door but with his sudden passing they had David Harewood instead. During the end game credits you even see a commemoration to Lance Reddick passing.
Yepp i felt that too. I feel Lance would’ve portrayed Door a little differently (maybe a bit more menacing but friendly until the part where he says “The mask comes off” wouldve been a cool switch in his character.) But I love David and glad to see him fit the remedy genre.
Cant wait to see his cameos in future games
I believe that too. His performance is really channeling the late legendn
Agreed and with microsoft owning the rights to Hatch and Jack Joyce (TIMe BREAKER) I feel like they had to play some names off same but different Door/Hatch (if they are the same person, could just be 2 of the same "interdimensional beings")
I like the theory of Door being Sagas father if its not confirmed already
Going back to the copyright issue perhaps Remedy now published by Epic didnt want it to be too obvious that its supposed to be the same character. Mind you they still used Same Lake For Alex Casey (basically Max Payne which is owned by rockstar/take2)
Lance reddick died recently this year in march i believe. They would have already filmed most of the game by then so no
@@anonymous4k4kor they might have asked and were told that Reddick couldnt coz he was sick.
I think I’ve got an answer as to why scratch is no longer a physical copy of Alan wake and is now just a dark cloud possessing him like a ghost. It’s because of the ending of American nightmare. Despite being a spin off and a failed attempt at writing return, Alan managed to weaken the dark presence to return to its previous form. The dark cloud. If you pay attention to that ending cutscene it’s like Alan charred the body of scratch with light only leaving a cloud of ashes flying upwards. This also proves yet again that Alan Wake’s American Nightmare is canon. The lore of control described the dark presence as a dark cloud too. So that wraps up everything in a neat little bow.
I think it just may not be scratch at all (killed fully in American nightmare) and actively the dark presence just controlling him as it has done many in the past. People touched by darkness often have periodic lapses in memory while the Presence controls them (like Jake in the Bright Falls miniseries). This is why Alan blames himself and not Scratch for haunting Alice (which we read about also in Control’s DLC)
It is canon. Sam Lake said so in a recent interview. It's just one of many Alan's failed attempts to write himself out.
The thing is: How do we know that Scratch ever was physically distinct from Alan? Yes, we saw both of them stand next to each other, but that was within the dark place, where that's not the weirdest thing to happen.
The other time we meet him is in American Nightmare, which also takes place exclusively within the dark place. It is implied that we see what Scratch is doing the real world through the televisions, but as we are within the dark place, this could very likely just be fake.
The only confirmed real world appearance of Scratch is with Alice and the photo we see in Control. But due to Alice's connection to Alan, and her having been to the dark place before, it could be possible that this was just a projection of Alan from within the dark place.
Considering what happens near the end of the game with Saga, I wonder if Scratch is the dark presence mimicking Alan's worst traits, weakening him and allowing possession
But then, in that same scene, you can see Scratch in the projector all fine and dandy so....
I'll add one thing about the final Alice scene - from my perspective, that cliff looked almost exactly like the cliff Alan jumped from in the first game. So it was fairly obvious to me that Alice was not dead, just in the dark place trying to help Alan.
She is the one in the dark place helping him, she is the one leaving him clues.
So she didn’t commit suicide? But her body was found in her apartment… make it make sense.
I clocked that too. It looked like the vista from the cliff edge on diver's isle. But I didn't know whether she'd actually committed suicide or wound up in the dark place because at the time I didn't think people could just jump in the lake to get to the dark place, but had to be taken in by the dark presence. Saga, Tor and Odin disproved that notion.
@@eden20111 No, it wasn't. The video clearly states that the photo burst of her walking off the cliff was her "final photographs".
To my recollection, Alice quite explicitly said in the final post-credits scene of Alan Wake 2 that she realised that the being haunting her in her apartment wasn't Scratch, but instead Alan, and so decided to frame her own death, and dive back into the Dark Place to help get Alan out. Each loop, she has dedicated herself to try to learn something new to get Alan out of the Dark Place, bit by bit.
Pretty sure Ahti’s character and why he’s a janitor is a metaphor for combatting entropy. Making sure that reality doesn’t unravel into complete chaos. Which is why he calls Jesse his assistant in Control. Basically there to keep things in order
Iirc thats exactly whats stated in control already. We dont know what Ahti is but someone has to keep reality tidy😂
I thought he was a reference to Ratatoskr cause he is the janitor of the oldest house which is a parallel to the world tree
The word for janitor in Finnish literally translates to "man of the house". This is why the director of the FBC is "merely" the janitor's assistant - he is the real god in control. Additionally the house and Cauldron lake are both part of the 'ocean of creation' which is Ahti's domain as the god of the ocean - that is why he can travel through all of these places at will. How mr. Door fits into this is still unclear.
@@fatidicusaeternus6498Mr. Door and Ahti are both Shifters, as described in Quantum Break
@@valmaxianelvengod This is the first i've heard of this part of Norse mythology, thanks for sharing.
I'm not sure if the allegory fits though. In Norse Mythology, Ratatoskr isn't an altruistic helper, it's a character that's driving conflict by passing slanderous messages between the eagles and the serpent Níðhöggr. I don't know that really describes Ahti as he exists in Control and AW2... I guess he could be developed into that type of character, though.
Saga IS actually named after a Norse goddess. She's one of Frigg's handmaidens, though I understand the confusion as 1.) "Saga" is also a Scandinavian word for "story," and 2.) there's debate as to whether or not the handmaidens are distinct entities or simply aspects of Frigg and her divine domains.
Regardless, she is still a seer. And it does explain a lot of how she gets information in her mind palace
I love the real life actors part its so cool this is a beautiful game amazing video as usual!
Is goo
Right? Every time I've seen it done it clashes with the game but for some reason it really works here
Quantum Break vibes, but better acting.
@@ronniewhitedx And they didn't have you watching entire episodes like in Quantum Break
I agree that the nursing home and wellness center were the most terrifying parts for me. The vibe of that area ticked all of the unnerving boxes for me. Also I think the mind place and detective board mechanics are so revolutionary and satisfying, gamifying the menu system and even bringing it into the story when Saga starts to succumb to the thoughts of doubt in the dark place.
Couldn't agree more about James Mccaffrey's line delivery! Laughed out loud when he said "WHAT THE FCK HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING?!" in the projector booth.
My favourite part was when he told me he wanted to break the 4th wall, just to tell me to 'F off' xD
On Zane, something I dont see spoken of much is the REASON he's a filmaker now and not a Poet. Bluntly, everything happening is Zane's fault when he tried to use the Dark Place to bring back Barbara. He broke story conventions and took shortcuts...like films often do. Zane's still the one pulling the strings, he just lacks the creativity or even the selflessness needed to get free. He erased himself from the world, but kept himself in the story as "the poet everyone forgot" but didnt forget.
Zane is not pulling any strings, he’s with barbara in his baby universe since the start of Aw1, everything we see about Zane from there (besides his books on the cabin) its Alan and Scratch using his persona to increment the story.
This video explains it all:
ruclips.net/video/_sOsMK25MZ8/видео.htmlsi=PB1dnsdf1KLZ3Tjb
Zane is a rabbit hole. I'm not at all sure what he is.
I don't doubt he's a bad storyteller. Nightless Night sucked ass 😂
You need to read "This House of Dreams"
It's an ARG that reveals what happened to the real Zane and Barbara
Just a couple of additional notes
1. There’s a manuscript page that mentions how Rose is the one to take Zane’s lamp from Cynthia’s room and send it to the dark place in a shoebox via the pond at the carehome. Cynthia loved Tom and losing the lamp made her finally give into despair so the dark prescence could take her over.
2. In one of the FBC files it is stated that The Lake House is the FBC’s main base of operations in Bright Falls but was unfortunately taken over by the darkness, perhaps we’ll get some more Control crossover in that DLC too!
The 2nd episode is actually called Lake House. So yeah, we'll se it again
Glad i scrolled down, was about to mention this
why Rose would do that to Cynthia???
@@eden20111 Rose is obsessed enough with Alan to leave Alex Casey lunchboxes around for a Hero that may or not show up, sending a lamp into a lake for him is very much in her wheelhouse
@@eden20111 She also did have the lamp in the end of Alan Wake 1s ending.
One thing that got me excited is hearing that the FBC HQ, or the Old House, has gone dark (found in a note inside the locked cell before the final act). This makes me wonder if they're still dealing with the Hiss in the internal lockdown, or if something else happened that would lead to a sequel. It's also interesting to note that Jesse can be seen in flashes during Alan's section, and is referenced on Breaker's whiteboard.
I suppose the HQ went dark might refer to the Lake House, like local HQ. And the Lake House DLC will be about that. But I thought about the oldest house while I was still playing the game when I found that piece of note.
I think the flashes we see of Jesse correlate with the AWE DLC in Control. There’s a scene in the Oceanview Motel where she opens a door and glimpses in on the conversation Zane and Wake are having!
Didn't the Old House go dark during the Hiss invasion? I thought it was still being restored at the end of Control, maybe it's still not back from it.
We already know there's a Control sequel coming so it could be a nod towards that. Though it could also as others pointed out be talking about the Lake House HQ there in Bright Falls. The Hiss invasion has largely been dealt with by the end of Control and I can't imagine that would take multiple more years to finish cleaning up. Considering Control takes place in 2019 and AW2 takes place this year in 2023.
@@lexxnewton "I suppose the HQ went dark might refer to the Lake House, like local HQ" - nah. One of the Taken late in the game screams at the top of her lungs "THE OLDEST HOUSE HAS GONE DARK!".
This game makes me realize that Saga and Alan's stories intersect in more subtle ways. Like the ending of Hotel 665 directly correlates to Cynthia Weaver being taken over by the dark presence. The victim in the bath tub was the muse, and the play is Tom Zane's work, who was Cynthia's lover at one point. The bathtub is exactly the same kind in Cynthia's room at Valhalla Nursing Home.
I caught that on my NG+ run. Love how so much makes sense the second time. Had a few moments of appreciation where things were tied together nicely after knowing how it plays out the second time.
Just rolled credits on Alan Wake 2 & while it did get a little messy at the end this game is nothing short of a 10/10 masterpiece. While it is the masterful sequel to AW1 its also a celebration of Remedy & how they write stories their characters and set the tone for what's ahead. Taking bits and pieces from OG Max Payne 1 & 2 even the great and underappreciated Quantum Break and of course Control. Not only can i not wait for where Alan Wake goes from here but what insanity Control 2 will be.
This is my GOTY as well and actually in hindsight made me fall in love with Control even more than I already was.
@@aeztral Hi-Fi Rush is still my goty but this is a close second.
I came for the dark place shenanigans but everything else I kinda tuned out. Combat was ok, story is good but not my thing, and the game just feels a tiiiny bit too long having to play both sides.
I'd give the alan half a solid 8 but sagas I would say was a 6 for me.
But I'm super happy almost everyone is satisfied with the game and the devs got the praise they clearly deserve.
I'm not usually into these kinda narratives but I wanted to give it a chance and I don't regret it even with my issues.
After 100% the game I think I still like Control a tiny bit more but still both are so close to perfection it's not worth making the distinction.
Alan Wake 2 is probably my favorite horror game and makes me wish Konami would sell the Silent Hill IP to Capcom.
Control is a perfect blend of 3rd person action and trippy adventure w/ a healthy dose of Metroidvania.
@@BaytuhI gotta play more of Hi Fi Rush. I really dig character action and the art style alot but I struggle with "staying on beat" style of gameplay.
One more note: Maybe Zane and Wake look the same because Wake is Zane's creation. He has overwritten himself in his attempt to rescue. He was constantly doing so, as we know Tom the Poet and Tom the Director, Tom the Diver. It seems Thor and Odin have the power to resist reality overwriting. Thor remembered that Logan is alive even when Alex Casey was affected by the story. That's why Thor and Odin keep referring to Alan as Tom.
Ahti also calls him Tom
Except we know that the Dark Place and the writing can't create reality, only change what's already there. That's why a popular fan theory is that Thomas Zane is Alan's father or of some familial relation to him.
@@moonlitxangel5771 The dark place can alter reality. Saga's daughter is an example
@@alezio299 Yup, that's what I said. It can CHANGE or alter reality - it can't create it. It can't create a person. Saga's daughter already existed before she was written into Return, the story didn't create Logan.
Much in the same way, Zane *can't* have created Alan. He can *influence* him and reality around him, but he can't have created him.
@@moonlitxangel5771 I always think Tom is Alan's dad since the first game.
Or Tom change his name to Alan Wake, so they are both the same person, just at a different time.
I have a voice acting background and have to say that Matthew Porretta's performance has been such an inspiration for me since the first game. The vocal training was really tough, sometimes without noticeable results for months but actors like him and the late Kevin Conroy are a great impulse to not give up. You almost saw me as Leon in those new RE games :) Excellent video btw. That kind of insighful content is refreshing :)
That’s so sad
I swear you post this everywhere I’ve seen this word for word
8 yrs ago move on bro😭
@@chill_muffin7858 haha, i noticed the same thing. I saw this comment the previous video. almost went back to it to check if my mind was playing tricks...
(btw. Ironic, since it fits the game perfectly)
@@Spl1FF--38fr I’ve seen his comments somewhere else, can’t tell if it was from an Alan Wake video or not but it spooked me for a split second. Made me question myself. Very on theme
Just finished this game, and holy hell. It was amazing. I was so immersed in this game. It was just like reading a really amazing book ironically.
I love reading the manuscripts knowing Alan did not write Return, Scratch did. When you view the manuscript pages, the typed text is Scratch, the handwriting is Alan. If the entire page is typed with no handwriting, it's a page Alan wrote and inserted into Scratch's story. Basically, Scratch never wrote anything about Saga. If it names or helps Saga (or kills her daughter), Alan wrote it.
Also, a meeting with Tim Breaker refers to Quantum Break as an alternate reality. I believe this has also been Sam Lake's way of talking about what's canon and I take Tim's comment as fact. Control and Wake are in the same world, and the stuff they don't own the rights to exist in a similar but different world out there in the multiverse somewhere.
Lastly, Lake House DLC will be Control-centric, given it's their facility. Night Springs has been announced to feature multiple protagonists, so it might be Alan, Alice and maybe Tim in the Dark Place being messed with by Mr Door.
I think Barry is going to factor in to Night Springs since in the game they seem to hint at him playing a role later
In interviews, Sam has stated that only Control and Alan Wake are in the same universe.
@Baked259 Correct.
And, from the perspective of the characters of Wake/Control, the world of Quantum Break is an 'alternate reality'. With Tim Breaker and Mr Door as 'echoes' of Jack Joyce and Mr Hatch.
@@adeviantproduction I'm hoping they're doing a kind of reboot of those characters like they did with Max Payne/Alex Casey
I thought they revealed close to the end that it was Alan all along writing Return when he shoots himself in the head just like it was Alan haunting Alice, not Mr Scratch. This is similar to The Writer episode from Alan Wake 1 where there are multiple Alans. Right after that he gets taken by the Dark Presence and escapes to the beach.
But the thing is that Alan is encouraged by Tom Zane to write, but he himself says that he shouldn't be writing. I think this Tom Zane is a manifestation of the Dark Presence tricking Alan to write so that it can escape the Dark Place while possessing him.
Thoughout the walls in the Dark Place you can see messages with the text "Don't write" which based on the mid credits scene point to Alice having left them for Alan.
I cant wait for all the future video essays and story analysis for years to come. This game is dense with ideas and symbolism.
This game is so dense, my mind is beyond confused
Someone could easily make an hour long video just on the influence of twin peaks on this game. (Alomg with true detective honestly)
Which would be good because I doubt many people who play this game have watched twin peaks.
All the way down to our protagonist being stuck in a dark place (black lodge) and an evil doppelganger emerging from it (Mr C).
They even had the "roadhouse presents" part with ahti singing on the stage.
It's like a huge loveletter to the things they like.
One of the posters for a Thomas Zane film seen in the city lists the year of production as 1970, but 'based on the book by Alan Wake'... This made me think about Alan's identity, that while Zane wrote himself out of reality - 'the poet everyone forgot' - and is supposedly existing happily ever after somewhere with Barbara Jagger, he also rebirthed/ re-envisioned himself back into reality as Alan Wake. 🤔 Wake then created Zane the filmmaker to help him get out of the Dark Place once he found himself antagonised in the exact same way by the Dark Presence). Hence why they look the same and the Andersons/ Ahti refer to Wake as 'Tom', since they remember the 'original' man. Alan does not seem to understand why because he has forgotten his own self. There's also an identity theft poster in the subway which reads, 'You may not be the only You.'
But - 'it's not a [cyclical] loop, it's a spiral'. It's not a return, it's a corruption. Zane's spiral, Zane's corruption. Hence why he [spoilers] tells himself via payphone at the end that he will escape the Dark Place and he simultaneously won't, and that he's sorry for everything he will need to suffer through. In the film projected in Room 665, Zane refers to 'THE LABYRINTH OF ME'. And after Alan/ Scratch shoots him, [spoilers] he comes back to life. The 'Drowning' Writer's Journey video also made me consider this possibility more. He can't ever write himself out of the story, because not his story really - it's Zane's.
If this is a viable theory, perhaps the next incarnation in the 'spiral' would be a character Wake creates and becomes 'the writer people forgot' so that 'the journey into the night continues'. This is perhaps 'the ritual' to lead you on; your friends will meet him when you're gone. 'Scratch' was the Dark Presence's means of forcing this step when Alan refused to continue writing. Plenty of the characters imply they are playing roles in a much grander design; Mr. Door remprimands Alan at the end of We Sing - that he should play his part.
Zane is also described as depressed before meeting Barbara Jagger. Alan is similiarly desribed as manic-depressive, with anger issues. Also, Cynthia is to Zane as Rose is to Alan. And Tom's lamp and Alan's Clicker are interlinked.
🤔 Obviously this is all my own fantasy of how the story's logic is supported. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.
That actually makes a lot of sense.
@@Brandon_Moves_You I'm sure there are holes to pick in it. 😵 What bugs me is that there is a paradoxical question of how Wake fit Saga into Return. He uses his fictional character of Alex Casey to bring the real FBI Alex Casey to Bright Falls, who puts Saga in charge. Alan first meets Saga in the Overlap and then alters the story to make her the hero. But in order for him to meet her in the overlap and make her the hero, that needed to have already been written in Return, hence the first manuscript page they find at the Overlap which directly describes their involvement. So who REALLY wrote Saga into the story... 🤔 It's not a spiral... It's a quantum break. 🤯 Tim Breaker [TIME Breaker] and Mr. Door [Mr. Hatch from QB] are maybe key characters in the future.
my mind is blown away by all these comments and theories, but yours is a nice one. I'm quite convinced that even the writers of the game's story are actually looking up ideas in the community to come up with what the actual fuck is going to happen next and find out some answers themselves. there was also another convincing theory someone mentioned here that Mr. Door is in fact saga's father, that would really make sense too.
This is actually really similar to my understanding of Zane's presence in the story. Reading your take has made it easier for my brain to comprehend the whole thing. Thanks for the migraine, Remedy!
P.S. I think Saga is "easily written" into the story since she is an Anderson - therefore Zane and Wake's writings don't affect the Andersons as they do others.
This is a really cool theory! It's a lot more complex than what I had in mind.
My theory throughout the game was that Tom Zane is Alan Wake's father. It would explain why they look so similar. We know the clicker is connected to the lamp. The lamp belongs to Zane and the Clicker belonged to Alan's father so I though it fit pretty well. Especially since Zane disappeared in the 70's and Alan was born in the 70's so it's definitely possible Zane had a fling with Alan's mom. You're theory gives me a lot to think about though.
As someone who absolutely loved Control, it does me good to see my favorite paradimensional janitor.
Stan Ahti in this house. Him helps with dah clogs.
Based ahti
Oh so that's what he's all about. He was pretty funny. I only played alan wake 1 and 2 so I was totally lost with him
@@HunterForHire422 Ahti is a big part of Control. A lot of Control stuff in AW2. Not quite as atmospheric with environments but the combat and story are VERY good. If you get a chance to pick it up should be pretty cheap now and I would recommend.
The Oceanview hotel, the Valhalla nursing home, and Alices place freaked me out the most.
I’m not a fan of playing Horror games, or watching horror movies. But I love analytics like this because the lore for these games is so wildly interesting.
I still have not seen anyone else mention that the things the shadows whisper and taunt Alan with are the things he himself said in that one writer's journey video where he was clearly descending into hopeless madness; I write and I write and I write, I'm drowning, this isn't your story, I'm lost in the dark etc; ALL OF IT is from Alan's ravind. I feel like that's gotta be significant somehow
EDIT: it's confirmed that those are versions of alan and I feel so validated lol
They also all have Alan's face and are wearing outfits we've seen Alan wear, or outfits from Stephen King's works.
(Axe shade Alan wears the raincoat from Into the Mouth of Madness' axe murder at the 3/4s mark, Knife shades are wearing the hitchhiker outfit from the intro of AW1)
They are Alan in failed loops. Built up over 13 years. When he fails he's overtaken by the Presence
@@JakeTalksGamesYT what do you mean face? Were you able to get some good looks past all the distortion after the darkness is burned away?!
@@QuestionableLifeChoices the distortion moves on a delay compared to the shades. if you dodge into them while they move, you can clearly see Alan's face for a third of a second or so
@@JakeTalksGamesYT oh shit!
Just finished the game last night! My game of the year for sure!
Post-Game thoughts: I definitely thought that there would be a reveal that Saga and Casey were never real at all since I forgot about the rule that Alan needed to use pre-existing elements and couldn’t make stuff from nothing.
I also agree that I enjoyed Saga’s far more due to the convoluted aspect of Alan’s and the vibe that you were finding out the insane story along with her. I also really liked her police magic.
I also wish that David got some characterization or at least a photo, since it felt odd that Saga didn’t despair at her marriage failing at all in the horror story.
That ending though 😮 reminds me of The Last of us' Cliffhanger ending
Edit. I just got the Platinum trophy like 3 minutes ago. Pretty easy if want a Plat.
@@efrenyalung1348really? I enjoyed Sagas sections a lot, but all things considered, it's pretty standard survival horror experience. Most of the unique and interesting stuff comes from Alns sections, i think years from now, I'm going to be remembering things like the talk show segments, especially the musical, more than anything in Sagas sections
@@bingusdingus39 I will say that this was my first survival horror game that I completed, so that definitely flavoured my experience. I do agree that the musical segment specifically has stuck with me long after finishing the game.
Mr. Door being Sagas's father explains why it was so easy for her to exit the dark place while it took Alan 13 years. I was hung up on why it was so easy, but it being a power of her heritage makes it click nicley in my head.
The running theory is that Warlin Door is Saga's absent father. Explains the exposition he gave of him only doing this because Alan brought someone he loved into the story. Also explains how he and Saga can both wander the Dark Place freely.
Departure is act 1 of the Hero's Journey. Alan wanted to skip straight to Act 3, presumably because he's scared and alone, trapped past that threshold and isn't prioritizing the most important part of the journey - the lessons learned. He tries to right Return, and it fails over and over again. He realizes he's missing something, and needs to write Initiation as that second act before he can get to Act 3 (all of which is more or less explained in the text of the game), however, what if Initiation AND Return as we know them are actually just Act 2, and that act keeps repeating and changing (being a spiral), but we have not yet seen Act 3. I strongly suspect Remedy is planning an Alan Wake 3, and I wouldn't be surprised if Alice figures heavily into it.
I think it's possible that everything we see in Alan Wake 2 is one of the rotations of the spiral of Act 2 - Initiation and Return - somewhere in the middle or near the end; since the game itself loops. What Alice has been seeing, haunting her, is literally Alan (as he returns to Parliament Tower over and over again). But the end-credits scene makes it seem like she actually didn't kill herself, and instead decided that she needed to trick Alan into *thinking* that she killed herself because he was haunting her, for one reason or another. But she says that she went into the Dark Place... I think Act 3 may wrap up some of the questions from this game: What was Alice planning, and how did Alan figure into it - because we know that he calls himself from some other point in the timeline to tell him to place Alice's photos in the box. We also know that Ahti said Alan (well, he said Tom, but, you know) asked him to leave the lamp (referred to as "Tom's Lamp" a few times) and the photographs in the shoebox in the basement. Paraphrasing Ahti, "what you leave behind is in front of you when you return". What we're seeing feels like an orchestration, Wake, Saga, Casey, and all the others playing out a story that has already been finished some-when else.
We have been blessed in gaming this year! Alan Wake 2, Tears Of The Kingdom, Baldur's Gate 3, Dead Island 2, Dead Space Remake, Mario Wonder, Ect. I'm just hyped to see 2024!
The third overlap with Cynthia is so intense. I had to take my headphones off and play without listening as you’re going through the bunker corridors. I think because it’s so narrow and you are turning back on yourself, in a normal horror move trope there would be something standing there… alas Remedy probably knew this so there was no jump out. Also by far the worse jump scare is if you went upto the old lady (Cynthia) on the second floor window at the nursing home.This is prior to knowing she is the taken, and says something like ‘you’re going to enjoy this my dear’. JUMP-SCARE .Literal heart palpitations afterwards.
I think it was confirmed that the DLC lake house will have to do with the FBC and the research station that they have in Cauldron Lake (at the beginning of the game, there is a fence with a buzzer that you can't get through that belonged to the FBC). In the case of night springs, I think it'll have to do more with Tim Breaker and Mr. Door, since that was one of the biggest mysteries of the game that was not completely on the main plot.
I imagine each DLC has a different playable character. Estevez in Lake House and Tim Breaker in Night Springs.
Yeah, in the talk show segment where Door drops the act and levels with Alan, he refers to Night Springs as "our Night Springs"
I hope Alice is playable so we can see her side of the story.
@@LordShrubYeah, it's like a mixture of Pokemon Go and Snap where she walks around taking photos of Taken until she accidentally walks off a cliff while looking through the camera.
Writes itself, honestly.
They are for sure alternative version of Mr. Hatch e Jack Joyce. Plus Mr Door is Saga's father 100%!
Towards the ending, Saga calls the board in her mind place 'The Board'. My only wish is that they had explained what exactly Alan was trying to accomplish by contacting Jesse on the AWE expansion. or that there were more references to Hartman being destroyed by the FBC and Jesse.
It's possible that they're saving that connection for Control 2.
@@moonlitxangel5771 Or the DLC(s). One of them is for the FBC 'Lake House' station, after all.
Just finished the game and some things fell through the mental floorboards. Thanks for helping piece things together.
the final mind place segment is so goated
Woah I was just watch your video on the first Alan Wake and then lo and behold, you uploaded a video on Alan Wake 2. Awesome content as always!
damn, I finished the game and I said "ok, maybe in a week gingy will upload the video so I can tied things up with the story". This is a pleasant surprise!
I was looking for this last night!!!! Thank God you reuploaded the very next day.🎉
I love your wordplays and the dry delivery
You’re seriously under-appreciated as a game-focused video essayist 💜💜💜
Okay I will correct you on the expansions. Likely have it twisted. Lake House will definitely deal with the Lake House FBC Facility on Cauldron Lake that Estevez mentioned that was overrun with the Dark Presence, perhaps eluding to Control related stuff, whereas Night Springs may relate to the actual main plot of the game.
Night Springs will probably be tied to Breaker and Door. Or maybe Alan. Alan wrote for it and Door seems to have a connection. So maybe Breaker looking for him
The reason people believe Night Springs will be FBC related is because a television in the Dark Place (featured in one of the live action cutscenes with Thomas Zane) had the Night Springs title card which briefly flashed to images of Jesse Faden and Dr Darling.
I honestly think both DLCs will tie in the FBC. The Lakehouse is a shoe in because its an FBC facility and Night Springs because of that cutscene hint.
@@habadasheryjones One issue with that imo is that they tend to not do things for no reason and I've seen others point out that when you find Tim Breaker in the Dark Place as Alan the song he's humming is the theme song for Night Springs. To have Tim connected to it in that way and then NOT have him as part of the DLC focused around Night Springs is a huge miss imo.
Not to mention the clear connection they're trying to make between Breaker and Door (admittedly they could just be doing that part as a tie-in with Quantum Break/Joyce/Hatch but that doesn't explain the Night Springs part of it.
Gingy i doubt you'll see this but ive been around since the For Honor days and Im so happy to see your success dude. The channel has exploded since you transitioned to essay-style content and as someone whos been around since the old days its crazy to see. Happy for you, keep it up
Hey thanks Brandon I appreciate it, thanks for sticking around :)
Always appreciate your consistently up to date story videos. Can't wait for the next one.
I assume the first DLC will heavily involve the FBC, as "Lakehouse" is the name of their monitoring station in Bright Falls
*Lake House. It's specifically their outpost in the Cauldron Lake area. (You can actually find the entrance to the facility at the beginning of the game if you head near directly south from the General Store. It's labeled as "FBC Buzzer" on the map once you interact with it.)
This is going to be the case, but I'm hoping Sam Lake pulls a 90 degree turn and it's about Alan Wake trying to write Keanu Reeves movie fanfiction from inside the Dark Place.
Can't wait for Gaming University to start doing videos on this, his theories are always so well crafted.
Here from the future the new game plus did infact add several clarifications to the story. You can always look them all up, but one of the biggest ones is that it pretty much confirms door is saga’s father. We also learn a bit about how tor and odin made up with mr door.
Thank you for keeping your explanation under one hour.
I'll be coming back to this when I have the time. But I'd love if you went back and analyzed Control and/or Quantum Break. I feel like as much as I didn't fully understand their stories, I still recognized their impact on this game's story and wanted to revisit them myself. Always love your commentary and impressions, so I'm glad this video is dropping so soon after I'd finished it.
I love your no nonsense beginning to videos. Jumping straight in. Brilliant.
the amount of twin peaks inspirations from this game was unreal. the doppelganger especially
What an incredible game. I loved the Musical segment. It was so goofy, fun. But creepy. You could feel the dark place, Scratch, Mr.door… whoever… you could feel them mocking Alan as he hopelessly press forward
Overlaps are where the veil between our reality and dark place is thin and both realities are grinding against each other.
Also its a fucking survival horror game. So not fighting enemies all the time makes sense. Instead that time is used to build tension and the game does this amazingly well.
Alan Wake is so much like Twin Peaks now in the literal sense that the first two seasons are good but the third season is ABSOLUTELY 10x better but requires you to watch it all. This game gives off that same vibe, that you gotta grind through the first one to get to the really good one. I'm not gonna finish this video lol I wanna play the games now
I disagree. I love the first third of this game. The rest is not bad but just not as good to me. Except for the opening of the middle part for Alan’s campaign, that is the peak 😂
The fact that Alex and Saga always drink in unison, every single time, has me curious as fu
Surprised you brought up the True Detective connection, but not the Twin Peaks connection! So much Twin Peaks inspiration all over this game, from the general setting with its trees and log cabins, to the plot of an FBI agent (or two) coming to a small town to investigate a supernaturally connected murder, to the doppelgangers, to the parallel evil dimension, to the wicked possessive spirit, to the enthusiasm for coffee. That shot of the two detectives drinking their coffee in tandem then turning to their perp is so incredibly Twin Peaks-esque.
Anyway, great video and really helped me organize my own thoughts in sparsing through all the chaos and surrealism.
Let’s go! Amazing turn around time on this video honestly
Just finished the game today, and wow that was worth the long wait, then again Remedy never disappoints.
This game is like the perfect test to see who is actually media literate
Fr
What would make someone "media literate" to you?
Why is this game the "perfect test" for such thing?
What would make someone "media literate" to you?
Why is this game the "perfect test" for such thing?
Media literate lol no its more a test if your a smooth brained duncecap. The writing of this.game is legendary status for how awful saga is, she is the most bland, souless, and boring character ive seen in awhile. But i guess people liked the new star wars and the horrid marvel movies like doctor strange 2 so i suppose it makes sense that some people would think its amazing.
Which is why you're watching a video literally explaining the story to you? Because you're soooooo media literate that you needed to watch a youtube ending explained video about something you absolutely 100% understand so well that you're claiming it's a good test for media literacy? Something you literally don't even understand yourself?
People need to stop sucking the dicks of stories that are super convoluted and claiming that something is a masterpiece just because it's insanely complicated. Sorry, it's not some masterpiece that defines if you're media literate or not, it's just a kind of mediocre game that bit off way more than it could chew story wise and had a truly awful ending.
Super good analysis man. I just finished the game this morning and I feel like the ending was satisfying enough that trying to piece everything together all game and not knowing what the actual fck was going on made it all worth it and make SOME KIND of sense. I really liked the idea that Alice kind of deceived Alan by faking her s*icide to give him some kind of motivation to become the hero who takes the fall at the end. Really good stuff. Wonderful game. Looking forward to the next installment!
Story will continue not with Dlc but with the New Game+. As you said this is a spiral and apparently playing New Game+ (continuing the spiral) will give us the true ending
Could we get a follow-up video discussing how the game changes when you play the NG+ gamemode with the new manuscripts and dialogue and what the NG+ ending means for the series?
This is something that I imagined what games would be like when I got older as a kid. Way back when I played N64 and saw that someday games would be lifelike and cinematic but cinematic in a way that cinema isn’t capable of being, like in a physical way.
Absolutely incredible game technically and immersive story with a pretty seamless world. I’ve experienced some bugs but nothing game breaking. It’s a game I didn’t know I needed.
Idk this game is probably the first game on the current gen of consoles where I see a real leap forward. It’s hard to express just how much I love this game.
Excellent video. I’m on my fourth play through and I wanted to watch a video that would help orient me in the story. It’s not so much confusing as it’s a lot to digest, the game that is.
I needed some outside input to know I’m not losing my mind trying to trace threads that seem to go nowhere and everywhere all at once.
I just finished the game and I did both Saga's and Alan Wake's stories at the same time (every time there was an overlap and they communicated, I'd switch characters to see the other perspective leading up to that moment) but I don't recommend it for anyone else.
I wish I had completed Saga's story then finished Alan's all the way to the end as the set ups and pay offs would've been a lot more impactful.
Yea I got lucky, Alan’s story had about two more chapters when Saga flipped the clicker and worked out pretty seamless
I did all of Alan's first and that made sagas half feel like a real drag
I went back and fourth each time I finished a chapter.
Bought remastered along with Alan wake 2 yesterday on ps5. Gonna go thru 1 and then American nightmare on one x. Then hop back on ps5 for AW2. Got the deluxe edition so season pass too. And on a new psn ID as well for solo game trophy hunting
Watching this at work and enjoying it a lot. You seem very chill at doing commentary. I’m still working on that part myself
Haven't gotten to finish it yet, but wanted to give support. You are awesome Gingy
Regarding Cynthia, the reason she fell to the dark presence is because Alan told rose take the angel lamp from her bedroom, and throw it into the the overlap in the pond. That's how he got it in the dark place...
Quickly becoming one of my favorite channels Gingy, keep up the great work!
When you said Alice was dead, I was initially furious. Thank goodness for the twist!
It was one of two times I was genuinely terrified playing this game. The way they did it is so chilling
Important objects traveling seemingly through time travel is probably explained by how in a spiral, at any point in time, you are close to another adjacent point in the spiral, unlike in a loop. This bleedthrough explains the impression of a loop
Alan Wake 1: It's not a lake. It's an ocean.
Alan Wake 2: It's not a loop, it's a spiral.
Alan Wake 3: It's not destruction. It's ascension.
Outstanding explanation. I truly admire the time you took into creating this video dude.
Oh i took spiral as in layers like the dark place has different layers to it and Alan, Saga, Alex and Alice just beat one like Alan did in the first game. They need to go deeper to get out completely.
I think that's an equally valid way of looking at it. Either way, the "Spiral" means that despite seemingly going through loops over and over again, each "phase" or "layer" as you said changes. The more phases they get through, the closer they are to getting out. The DLC's and (quite probably) a 3rd game will certainly wrap it up that way, I think.
I took the spiral comment from Alice as Alan has been spiraling downward with his writing. She said there were two ways out, ascension or descention. I think Alan had already been going deeper. What he thought was a loop was always a spiral. Every time he thought he was backtracking in the Dark Place, it wasn't exactly the same. It was getting worse every time. His decension was providing a way out, but it was a way out that Scratch wanted. If he changes the way he writes, I believe he can reverse the spiral and finally ascend from the Dark Place like Alice wants.
I so wanted Jesse to rock up at some point.
It's interesting that the FBC we encounter in this game seems to be separate from The Oldest House, which has 'gone dark'. TOH was still locked down after Control ended, so are the Hiss still causing issues, or is there a new threat?
Maybe Control and AW2 are happening at the same time?
It's too much. People seem to want AW2 to be Control 2. The interconnected works when it's not a central plot thing.
@@theengine good point. I only meant a cameo from Jesse haha. Also, missed Barry Wheeler
I managed to play this game for 40 hour because I loved exploring the world so much. I couldn’t get through Alan Wake 1 but good lord am I glad I tried this game. What an incredible experience
Alan Wake 1 is toleratable because it leads to Alan Wake 2.
Fun fact, Saga is also a character in Norse mythology, associated with Odin and a location that translates to “The Sunken Bank/Beach”
great video!! you forgot to mention Tim Breakers whiteboard! Which connects him in a way to Quantem Break and also control
I never played Alan Wake 1 in 2010 and I just played it for the first time this year. It took me almost 2 months to get through Alan Wake Remastered because I hated the gameplay so much. Im so glad I stuck with it though because Alan Wake 2 is one of the best game I've ever played.
Alan Wake Remastered is a horrendous bugfest
@@RequiemForRavenholmL take
L take
I wonder if the whole murder during the production part was inspired by "The Crow", where a gun meant to be unloaded was accidentally left loaded and the main actor was actually killed?
35:31
To add onto the whole”powers thing”
She is the granddaughter of the character “Tor Anderson” with her mother being Freya, and Saga is a term often used for old stories. So her name is linked to her abilities to see the story from a wider lens, despite being a character in the story at the same time. It’s bewildering to find a Norse mythology element in a story like Alan Wake 2.
Edit: you already mentioned it literally 3 minutes later :P
Ah well, still interesting to see the Norse element from it!
God I love Remedy. Control is among my personal top games and AW2 is now right there as well. Enjoyed almost every minute but especially Alan´s parts. I dunno what is wrong with me but I love being in Dark Place NYC in the same way I loved being in The Oldest House. No windows. No sky. No nature, just pure interior creativity.
Okay, Mr Scratch dies in American Nightmare. No one calls Scratch "Mr Scratch" in AW2. its just Scratch. This is because they are similar but different entities that alan believes are the same.
Mr Scratch is the negative rumors of Alan made manifest.
Scratch is the Dark Presence meat puppetting Alan.
Theyre similar but different. There are two characters named Scratch, one Mr, one just Scratch.
My one and only criticism is the game play additions such as trying to be more resident evil and silent hill-like. I like those franchises, but I played the two original games, and I'm expecting a third one that plays pretty much the same, but just bigger and better looking, kind of like what I got with Psychonauts 2. Other than that I had so much fun and I'm so happy that the new game plus continues the story.
I LOVED when i realized all the shadow taken in the dark place were saying lines from alan's breakdown. I dont know what that means exactly but it was such a creepy reframing of the enemies in the area
I just finished the campaign and it was amazing, probably one of the best games I’ve played this year. There was one big issue for me though. 13 years in the dark place, and Alan couldn’t take 5 minutes to smash Rose after she saved his ass at the end of the game.
I got an Rx 6600 so i can’t play, so Ive been waiting for this video !
Alan Wake 1: "It's not a lake it's an ocean"
Alan Wake 2: "It's not a loop it's a spiral"
Alan Wake 3: *Wakes up in a wagon. It's cold. You see a Imperial soldier and a Nordic prisoner.*
"Hey, you!" the nordic exclaim.
"Finally wake"
*cuts to black screen*
To OP, there's a mistake in your video - Cynthia Weaver got taken because Rose took her lamp. It wouldn't surprise me if Rose ends up being possesed by the Dark Presence.
I would like to see Gingy make a video on the story of Ender Lilies, even though the game released 2 years ago. It’s an underrated game that deserves more attention
I didn't really care for how the flashlight works now either. I feel like they should have keep it where you have to hold it but just get rid of the recharge, that way the battery packs would still have a use.
Sagas campaign is more "real" with better gameplay exploration and weapons. I like her part more too
When I saw the intertwining of Saga and Casey's roles reminiscent of Rust and Marty in the first season of True Detective, I felt rather compelled to make a strong response, which also includes some of my views on Remedy and Sam Lake's creative approach. In True Detective, the weight of the characters' motivations comes from our real-life experiences that interweave with the characters' situations, such as why, when we see the montages of Marty and Rust describing their life experiences when they reunite ten years later, we can empathize with the intrinsic patterns of life. Time is a flat circle, as Rust puts it; if you abstract the perspective to the inherent patterns of human nature, life is just an overlay of a few meta narratives. As a composite entity of human experiences, we can only excel in one thing throughout our lives.
In Alan Wake 2, we continuously hear Alan articulating the line such as "It took me thirteen years to escape from the dark place," but we know nothing about his life in that eldritch reality because Alan's life in the game is portrayed as an overlay of a few amusement devices - one moment descending from a roller coaster, the next instantly teleporting to a giant swing. Similarly, the character motivation of Saga in the "real world" lacks cohesion; the challenges she faces in the game can be summarized comprehensively with just one song. In my opinion, Sam Lake is an imaginative game creator; in Alan Wake 1, his imagination was confined to the framework of Stephen King, and when he attempts to referecing Hemingway at the beginning of Alan Wake 2, his diligence to portray characters seems somewhat unsatified in nature. As for all, Remedy's recent works have focused more on superpowers rather than articulating us the player to some real-life experiences.
“How something from the past can be sent forward in time to the present” to understand this all you have to do is look at the shape of a spiral 🌀 … now if you grab a pen and cross a straight line through it, from the outside circumference to the center (inside) or vice versa, you can connect not just the past with the present, but multiple points in time as well
To some of the stuff mentioned in the video. Regarding Cynthia according to the ingame info given she was actually fine even when growing old because she had the angel lamp which the clicker is a part of. According to the info given even though the angel lamp never shined a light it gave of an invisible light that worked as a forcefield shutting out the dark presence making it impossible for it to draw closer. However Alan/Scratch contacted Rose that worked at the nursing home and one of the missions given to Rose was to steal the angel lamp and put it into a shoebox thus sending it into the dark place. After this everything that happened to Cynthia came to happen.
Mr Door is Warlin Door the lover of Freya and the father of Saga Andersson. Warlin somehow became an entity (or always was) similar to the Dark Presence called Mr Door that supossedly can travel freely through dimensions. How he became Mr Door I don't know since I read some who mentioned Tor + Odin sacrificed Warlin to the Dark Presence by sending him to the Dark Place to save Freya where he then later became an entity called Mr Door. While others say he became the entity called Mr Door while together with Freya and Tor + Odin feared him and somehow cut a deal with him to go away which broke Freya's heart and made her leave with Saga. What is clear however is that Mr Door appears in the game seemingly because of Saga as a way to help her. There is some speculation that Saga holds the power of both the Anderson family who can seemingly see the past, the present and the future among other things and the power of Mr Door who can freely move between dimensions.
Saga's name is actually in line the the god names the Anderson family all have while saga the word means tale/story Saga the name means "She who see's" and while not much is mentioned about her Saga the goddess does exists though many believe she is just another name used to describe Frigg. However Saga the goddess is usually thought to be a seeress and is associated with water mentioned to have lived close by or on top of a lake.
nor a Mary Sue btw
The actual way to understand this story is to organize it like Saga's investigation board, continue adding details and answer questions until it clicks.
Glad to hear, cant wait to cone back and watch after i play the game!
Mr scratch js Alan, the darkness of Alan the “evil” to put it into words. In American nightmare scratch assumes the form of Alan to taunt him, to show what what he fully wants ( alans real body). When scratch was destroyed in AN we see him become smoke and formless. Scratch Is a formless monster a representation of the true darkness in all of us and what could happen if we let it out. This is also explained in his theme song Dark twisted and cruel
Dude, what a video! +1 sub :-)
14:48
Although I liked so much what the Remedy did with the duo protagonist system in the game, I don't think it would be well suited in TLOU2. IMO the Remedy did this way because the gameplay with Saga/Alan may be too boring if we played with no stop, while in TLOU2 the Naughty Dog did that way with the intention to give us a feeling of duality about who's right in that story.
Watching this vid without knowing this series of games existed is something else.
I'm about half way through this video, had a couple thoughts I wanted to share about Alan's visions. When he and Saga are finally able to talk in Saga's Mind Place, he realizes that they're more than just inspirations, they're something more real. However, I wouldn't necessarily say that they're all things which happened in real life / the waking world. That conversation in particular is psychic and happens inside Saga's head. She accesses her psychic visions through a mental technique, he accesses his through spontaneous inspiration in times of need. Her psychic abilities appear to be because of her heritage (having come from the Andersen Brothers, who were touched by the Dark Presence, but also being (probably) the daughter of Warlin Door, who was ALSO touched by the Dark Presence).
I don't remember if this was in the game or some speculation I heard, but somebody somewhere pointed out that Alice may be able to see Wake (Scratch) because she too was touched by the Dark Presence. It seems like interaction with the unnatural entity (directly or indirectly, because we know Saga's mother also had the gift) has caused their consciousnesses to somehow extend past the mundane world, and allowed them to access information that's specific to them from *somewhere else*, or some-when else. "Time doesn't matter here" was almost certainly said by someone in the game, I think Tim, and it's a good point. Everything that happens in the Dark Place doesn't necessarily align with things happening in the waking world, and vice versa. Wake experiences all of Initiation, including all of the interactions with Saga in her Overlaps before appearing on the beach, which means they all happen before Saga enters the second Overlap.
I don't really have a point, just throwing these thoughts out there.
I believe it's brought up in the game (or I saw the same theory you did) that Alice can see Alan due to her own time in the Dark Place (because she was in the Dark Place before Alan wrote her out). So she still has a connection to it and to Alan since he's there.