Controller Prevents Disaster | ATC vs Pilots
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2024
- Pilots make mistakes like everyone but the consequences of two planes taking off at the same time on crossing runways is very dangerous, listen to ATC scream to try to stop them from colliding.
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Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:48 - I do what I want
5:35 - similar callsign
9:21 - Lineup and wait
19:28 - oops
21:00 - fun one
For the Delta & Southwest incident, I'm happy that the tower didn't yell "Punch it!" to one of the planes like in "2.22." Love that Hollywood vs. Reality.
Hollywood be like: "Real life, what's that?"
God, that was so DOUCHEY!
That movie was so full of shit lol.
That’s how The worst plane crash happened
@@Kansasavation how?
In response to the first incident in the video:
When I was a student, about 15 years ago, we were in a Cessna 152 at Ft. Wayne, cleared to taxi to the runway, and a commuter jet (who had NOT been cleared to taxi) pulled out onto the taxiway in front of us.
The blast from the engines almost made us do an involuntary take-off. Thankfully, the instructor had the controls, and kept us on the ground and upright.
Only after the jet was on the taxiway did it call for clearance.
ATC was not amused. They made them go back to the movement area and sit in the corner for a while.
"Sit in the corner for a while" lol
Those who have bigger planes, have the right of way I guess. I'm glad they got put in the corner and cry a while 😂
Made to sit in the corner and think about what they'd done 😂
I think I would have had a code brown.
Haha, sent them to “time out” in the corner to calm down and consider their behavior
"cheap lesson"...this is why it's so important to share your "near misses"; it's an opportunity to minimize the risk that someone else will make the same mistake.
A smart man learns from his mistakes; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others
ya for sure, I love cheap lessons 🙏
This is true not just in aviation, any time there was a situation when I was working in industrial manufacturing, where it could have been dangerous, we filled out reports. I had jobs that they brought out to my machine where I read the processes sheets and write a log for the company refusing to run it the way they had "planned" because it had potential to get someone seriously hurt or killed.
of course there were also some reports from minor accidents where someone does get hurt in the shops, but 90% of our "incident" reports were near miss reports. still serious, but no injuries to go with it. That I'm getting at is near misses are important to make note of, so that others can learn from it, so you don't have as high of a chance that someone else will make the same mistakes with worse outcomes.
Smart men learn from their mistakes… wise men learn from others mistakes
I imagine that most involved had to do an "Underwear check" Just In Case of a Code Brown or Code Yellow! Or worse Both Codes!!!
The unsung heros of aviation are the ATC and the ground crew.
The ATC for how many aircraft they have to control and the ground crew for their hard work to keep the aircraft airworthy.
ya its definitely a high stress job and ground crew have a lot of pressure on them to get everything out on time and with sometimes terrible weather... its impressive.
I've been thinking recently about the conditions the ground crews have to work in. While it may be an annoyance to us to have our flight delayed by snow or heavy rain or whatever other inclement weather, they have to be outside in that mess to do their jobs.
@@burke615 Often, yes, but there are also conditions where they will have to stop. Lightning is perhaps the most common of those. Obviously, you don't want to be standing on the ground beside a giant aluminum airplane in a lightning storm, so they'll actually shut down the ramp when lightning is detected within a certain radius of the airport.
Once I was stuck for a couple of hours at the gate at MCO because of this. They had already retracted the jetway from our aircraft, but we hadn't been pushed back yet when lightning was first detected within the radius where they're required to shut down the ramp. This was long after the days of airliners powering back under their own power, so we just had to sit there until the storm blew over and it was a very slow-moving Florida afternoon thunderstorm. Since the ramp was shut down, they also couldn't re-attach the jet bridge until after the lightning was gone, so everyone just had to sit there on the plane at the gate waiting for it to blow over, even the people who already knew for sure that they were going to miss their connections and no longer wanted to travel. The runways were still open and the storm was moving quite slowly and not over the airport yet, so we could have departed on time if we had already been pushed back before the ramp had to shut down.
I will disagree. It takes everyone...
You skipped an interesting part of the main incident in this video. When the tower told them both to stop and gave instructions on where to pull off their respective runways, Southwest read back the instruction given to Delta, and the frustrated controller called them both out for taking each other's callsigns. So really it wasn't just Delta taking Southwest's sign, they both did it to each other at different stages of this incident.
To be fair to Southwest, the only time they responded to Delta's callsign was on the stop command, which is just erring on the side of caution.
CDKX that's not even worth mentioning, if you are cleared for takeoff and you hear the controller state the words "abort", there is not time to second guess if this was a cancelled takeoff clearance for you. You abort the takeoff and state on the tower frequency that you are aborting the takeoff.
Why do they all have such similar Call sign with just numbers as the difference. That seems like it could get confusing.
@@tonyveroeven The call sign wasn’t the major issue here. The issue was the two pilots stomping on each other. Like Kelsey said, the pilots need to listen to the communications from ATC. Someone should be listening out for their call sign.
That Allegiant/Cirrus incident brings back memories for me:
When I was on a ground crew many years ago, when pushing back an aircraft we had wing walkers under or near each wingtip.
There was another airline at our airport that had a reputation for very fast taxiing and very short turn around times. More than once I had a 737 taxi around my aircraft and I had the choice either to let their wing pass over me or I could retreat under our wing, toward the running engine. I nearly had my own code brown.
Later, after making informal inquiries, we learned that there was a particular Captain based at our airport who commuted by air to where he actually lived. If he got to the gate fast enough, he could run to make the last flight home rather than spend a night in the crash pad. That's why he was endangering our lives.
After this happened two or three times, we started pushing our aircraft all the way across the taxiway so that there was no way anyone would get by us even if they tried.
The next time that Captain came in while we were pushing, he couldn't get past us, so he missed his flight home. He then came down to our crew room to give us a piece of his mind. Let's just say words were enthusiastically exchanged in a manner that resulted in a formal apology being received on the other company's letterhead.
I don't know what happened to that Captain but we never had an issue with being overtaken on the taxiway again.
Sounds like that Ordinal Direction airline to me.
Thanks for being part of the good people that keep us safe any day we fly.
Was in Charlotte, Baltimore, Knoxville and JFK last week.
It takes a village. ❤️
Gotta love karma!!
@@mrjaycam18 😂😂😂
Awesome!
I absolutely love how you focus not on how to pass blame, but how to learn lessons and also on the realistic outcomes for these pilots who make mistakes. It's all about getting better over time, not starting out perfect, which no one ever is.
I think another major thing is mistakes always happen, but if everyone is on their toes they won't turn into an accident.
Well, I don't know how you can be posting things like that on RUclips. Such reasonableness and concern for improving safety rather than punishment breaks all the RUclips commenter rules. You're supposed to be demanding at least that those Delta pilots never be allowed to fly again, if not the death penalty for both of them! :-)
Yes all situations should be "LEARNING"situation.
Imagine how it is at the biggest airports in the world. Dozens of airplanes coming in would give me a heart attack
Uncle Rey :D
Which is why the job of an air traffic controller takes a special kind of person
ATC is your friend. If you mess up, THEY have to do paperwork. ATC people hate paperwork.
I'm a student pilot out of Florida's 3rd busiest airspace behind Orlando and Miami and it's wild
its busy airspace but we train for it and so do they
From what I can say, that if the controller was talking 15% slower, it would've actually taken half of the time now wasted in repeating, correcting misheard callsigns, confirming who is picking up what, doing this 3 times and then still the result.
Agreed.
Even if it normally works for him to talk so fast, he still should have slowed down and enunciated extra clear for that particular call. He should have recognized the danger with the callsigns being similar and that if that particular call was misunderstood it would create an emergency.
The woman at the start was a lot better.
@@yorgle11 I am going to spew some bullshit, and I want you to know that I 100% agree with you and to disregard everything after this sentence. Now, I think the ultimate responsibility goes to the pilots who take action based on ATC's instructions. From my personal experience, when you have to work rapidly, you don't assume people didn't understand you. That's unsafe? Probably. That's why I think the operator has the responsibility to stop or refuse to act if the instruction is unclear. Best case, you continue uninterrupted. Middling, you have to repeat yourself. Worst, you have a crash. The former is more like driving and assuming everyone doesn't know how to drive properly and will crash into you. The latter is more like driving and assuming everyone is 100% aware and competent.
I would not have understood much at that pace.
"This isn't the wild west. This isn't the 1930's where you can just do whatever you want". LOL.
Reminds me of the Robert Redford movie "The Great Waldo Pepper" during the 1920s or 1930s and after an incident, a govt official from the CAB shows up saying pilots have to get a license, follow these and that rules, etc. Redford's character, "what a minute, I'm a pilot, not a chauffer!" The CAB guy generally says the days when you can do whatever you want are over.
@9:21 ATC spoke so fast that it was hard to understand which aircraft he was referring to. And even when ATC realized there was confusion between Delta and Southwest, he still spoke fast and unclear instead of slowing down.
dont plan on stopping, how hard is to give clear instructions
The bottom line: at no time did ATC say the phrase "4R cleared for takeoff". Therefore Delta never could have heard it. 100% Delta's fault.
Brilliant breakdown of a very tense and complex situation. The airport maps are a great visual guide too. Thanks Kelsey.
glad you liked it Logan
Yeah, for sure. I love the maps, too. I never had a fear of flying... until I started watching "Air Crash Investigation". I stopped watching the show bc it was creating a minor *fear* I'd never had. I live pretty close to an airport, and I was noticing anxiety increasing every time a plane flies over my house (at least 10x/day).
I was thrilled to find Kelsey's channel a few weeks ago..... but now I'm scared of runways :)
I doubt this will ever happen, but I would love to hear Kelsey's opinion on MH370. Seems pretty obvious to me, but I'd like to hear a pilot's perspective.
(Edited one word bc it was taken too literally)
Shouldn't have happened for obvious reasons, but I think Kelsey's list of possible dangers to the airliner wasn't very convincing. The only real danger was to the Cirrus it seems.
@@You.Tube.Sucks. If it makes you feel any better, just think about the fact that to make Air Crash Investigation or any similar show, they are using over half a century of flights to find enough incidents for their show. You're probably more likely to be hit by lightning than by a falling aircraft part. :)
@@burke615 Well, now I'm scared of lightening!! Thanks!! 😉 Jk, I am fine on planes... My heart rate just increases a bit when a plane flies over my toddler. I am, however, absolutely petrified on the road... with good reason!!
I don't have an actual phobia, but I do have a friend who does. Unfortunately, statistics don't help. Phobias aren't rational.
I've never understood how controllers and pilots can speak so fast with so many instructions and not having people run into each other or worse as a common place happening !
Worked at a waterpark for nearly 3 years. "Code Brown" was something we used daily (somebody deuced on the bathroom floor). Code Super Brown meant it was in the pool, which was a much bigger issue (mandatory 1hr shutdown of all pools on that filtration system).
Lol I saw a code super brown at the community center last year.
I always thought it was just hospital terminology -- as we also use "code blue", "code yellow", "code pink", and such.
Code pink is the only one I've never heard & I'm thankful for it.
P. S. OP, it must be really frustrating when non-potty-trained toddlers aren't using swim diapers at waterparks. I know all public pools have to shut down, so I assume it's the same at a water park -- even for a code mini brown :)
1 hour seems like not enough time 😂
@@74gear I'm old enough that I won't even consider getting into a public pool! Can't take a chance of getting sick.
ATC crew never get enough credit for the work they do. Some people think its just pushing buttons and drinking coffee all day, it's not. Kudos to ATC crew!
ATC here, to be fair I spend much more time drinking coffee vs saving lives, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
That os true, but brother workds 30 years out at the austin tx airport, and he often speaks of the traah talk with some of the a-hole captains. Small percentage, but some captains have big ego.
@@ridiculous1328 Keeping a stern eye on the skies is the preventative measure that help prevent accidents from happening.
@@ridiculous1328 yeah, when you have to save lives all the time, you know that something is SERIOUSLY wrong.
well we do the button pushing they do lots of talking!
Every time Kelsey talks about ATC, I imagine Lloyd Bridges in the movie Airplane! " Picked a bad day to quit drinking "
... and a bad day to stop sniffing glue...
@@dalemtb1199 Priceless.
Surely you can't be serious.?
@@10beerman "I am serious, and don't call me Shirley." 😀
@@10beerman I am, and don't call me Shirly.
8:30 good you brought up the dangers complacency.
One of my old professors had a saying, about the 5 levels of competence
Unconscious incompetence- where you are totally oblivious to how little you know
Conscious incompetence - where you still can’t perform the task, but you can understand why
Conscious competence - where you can do a task, but you have to pay full and total overwhelming attention
Unconscious competence - where you can manage conversation and side tasks while doing the thing (this is the ideal)
Unconscious indifference - this is the dangerous one where complacency kicks in and you become a big danger
In the second scenario, I think part of the problem is the speed of the ATC talking. If he would have spoken a bit more slowly and clearly, it is unlikely that there would have been an issue. The controller knew that he had two aircraft with similar call signs both waiting for a take off clearance. The controller should have taken the extra 1/2 second to slowly and clearly enunciate which aircraft he was speaking to. I think this "lesson" should have included if not centered on the controller.
Delta had a few clues it wasn't them but I completely agree ATC should've spoke more clearly in this situation given there's such a great chance for them to get confused with similar callsigns.. the "Southwest" part was so quick I didn't catch it at all
However, both aircraft pilots also knew there was a another aircraft with a similar callsign on frequency, the controller advised them of it directly at the start (as they are required to do to prevent exactly this type of situation) so they should have been listening more carefully and double checking the instructions were for them... Also, the speed of the talking on the radio sounds much faster when you aren’t very comfortable or familiar with radio phraseology, but when you use/listen to it all day as ATCs and airline pilots do, it seems normal speed as your brain becomes used to listening to the specific phrases over and over and can process them more quickly. (Having said that, I agree that when you have aircraft with similar callsigns on your frequency you should annunciate the callsigns very carefully, and highlight the different parts by slowing down and speaking as clearly as possible, exactly like the ground controller did when initially advising Southwest that Delta was on frequency with a similar callsign near the beginning)
It says in the 7110.65 if you have similar sounding to annunciate and repeat the company. Ex. “American 726, American” or “Delta 726 Delta”
The bottom line: at no time did ATC say the phrase "4R cleared for takeoff". Therefore Delta never could have heard it. 100% Delta's fault.
I have run into ATC that seem to try to spit out request/orders at a high speed and use non standard instructions. Not as bad as in the 70's and 80's now.
Whoever subtitled this is skilled because whenever they say the numbers, I only hear either the first or last digit and that's while reading along.
Bla bla mhuwa mhuwa southwest 8blabla1
Alexa be like "Did you say order a number 6 and 7 from mcdonalds?"
I think that Kelsey subtitles it himself.
It's always so fast and mumbling... sounds they try to speak as fast as possible and eat a pillow at the same time....
I played back multiple times and especially the tower's 'Delta' or 'Soutwest' seem to be extremely fast and muffled.
Kelsey's channel is ALL about aviation.
In a comment on one vid I asked "What is this 74 Gear channel all about?" but either nobody caught it or it wasn't as funny as I thought it was
If you were expecting videos about real estate, I'm sorry to say you came to the wrong place.
About aviation and for some weird reason, code brown gets a lot of attention also. Hummmmm…..
Hmm ..yes... but... I could think of a couple rather interesting topics that make you feel like you're flying whilst being attached to the ground in ....some way. 🤔 but I guess she'd have to be pretty big for it to still be aviation...hmm hmm hmm
@@mrk8212 don't worry people don't get my jokes either sometimes
“There’s some cirrus risk there…”
Nice one, Kelly 😂
That similar callsign thing is very similar to a hospital when you have 2 patients with very similar names. Like me, I was in hospital for the whole of last week and the there was another patient with the same last name as me and a very similar first name. A nurse didn’t check the NAME ALERT card above my bed and I got given HER medication. To say I was annoyed was an understatement!
That could've been fatal! Glad you're OK.
Had a similar situation but with room numbers when my wife was giving birth. She was 8.5cm dilated and we were waiting for her OB to arrive. Nurse comes in and clears a syringe, I ask her what it is and she said Pitocin. I nearly jumped over my wife trying to stop the nurse from putting it in my wife's IV line. If she had injected it about 2 minutes later I would have been playing catch with my first kid. The Pitocin was meant for the woman in the room nextdoor who had been in labor for 36 hours!
And that would be why when I'm in the hospital here in Japan they show me the IV bag they're about to hook up and have me read my own name off of it.
"Similar sounding callsigns" isn't just a good idea. It's "in the book" (FAAH 7110.65) and is a required call by ATC.
Very true.
I love this pilot culture...from my non pilot POV knowing that both pilot and ATC will make a report about this event even as minor as it is, and some actions will be taken to avoid it in the future makes me so happy....that's all of this that makes planes and the aviation in general very safe
I worked in offices with deadlines for 28 years. But i cannot IMAGINE the stress of being an ATC. They truly are unsung heroes!
Kelsey, every time you show an airport runway/taxiway map, my brain gets scrambled because I can’t remotely decipher it, then my blood pressure and heart rate go through the roof as you walk through these white knuckle (to me) scenarios. I know you and your pilot peers and ATC/tower folks are well trained on this, but it still freaks me out. Much props!
When I heard "don't plan on stopping for Southwest" I knew Delta was gonna be the one that made the error.
At the same time, "don't plan on stopping" is not exactly standard phraseology. There's no argument that the Delta crew was the ones who were "to blame" here, but the ATCO can definitely take some learnings from this incident as well.
To me, the easiest way to prevent a situation like this from ever happening would have been to first clear the Southwest for take-off and only then tell the Delta to line up -- it wouldn't have delayed the second take-off at all, but it would have ensured there's no chance they mistakenly start rolling at the same time. But even more crucially IMO, when the controller heard two people talking at the same time after his take-off clearance, he should have realized there's a chance of confusion, and when he re-iterated who the take-off clearance was for, he should have SLOWED DOWN a bit and made very clear which plane he was talking to.
But, all in all, like Kelsey says, a great, cheap lesson for everyone involved!
I remember listening to this on VAS (years ago I think). I was expecting to be the closer one out of Philly that also involved a Southwrst aircraft (though that one was on ATC) out of Philly
Yep, and then Delta starts transmitting when they should just be staying put and staying quiet.
its easier in this setting than when you are in the airport and things moving around fast
The easy way for Tower to prevent this is to give the instruction this way: "Delta 1328 line up and wait runway 31C, number two for departure, 737 departing from 4R."
I just found this channel like a week ago and have already watched most of the Hollywood vs Reality, a bunch of the Viral Debrief (like 10+), and the ATC vs Pilots. Love the videos and your personality. BTW I want to be pilot on a 787 one day (but I know it'll take forever, that's ok). Thank you for so much interesting information!
PS I also love free food
well if you love free food you are destined to be a pilot 😆glad you enjoy it
I'd be interested to hear your take on the "ATC Zero" incident in Miami where they lost all power for a while.. That was a potential cluster-F that turned out just fine due to the professionalism of all the pilots involved.
"Planes, be advised, similiar callsign"
"We'll look out for that 🤗"
Trying to take off into each other no questions asked...
That was Southwest that responded they would be on the lookout for that and they were. They responded to instructions that were given to them. The error was just on the Delta crew.
I think the procedure for a Cirrus is that when you get under the wing of a big jet you are supposed to pull the parachute.
That Cirrus was taking serious risk.
@@ovalteen4404 was it a serious taking a Cirrus? Or a Cirrus taking a serious? I was getting seriously confused about the Cirrus situation for a moment or two there.
Do you see guys how Kelsy is developing scenarios of what if and what might?
That's how you grow as a pilot. You spend your time learning, getting ready and increasing your situation awarness. If you feel hot but you don't know why, all you care about is the unpleasant feeling of sweating, by increasing your siuational awareeness you will think about time, date, your position and your adaptation to the system. That is awarenees.
Kelsy is a great example..
That applies to driving as well.
Applies to bicycle commuting too.
I can't be a pilot because I can't keep up with how fast ATC talks
Just starting lessons and it's already my biggest concern.....
you could, just takes some practice
If we talk too fast, just ask us to say again a little slower. We will happily oblige. Nothing worse than thinking you heard us but you didn't. ❤️
@@gammaphil that's an honor to read a real ATC! I admire you guys so much.
@@marilynNV hah, well I have been accused of talking too fast more than once. 🤣
Midway was my favorite landing late at night. We got a announcement over the pa. "Due to noise we will have a steep approach into the airport" it was AWSOME!!! FELT like a roller coaster falling out of the sky. Pilots did great with a smooth touchdown
Without Kelsey's explanations and captions on the radio dialogues, they're just blah, blah, blah to me!
Me too. I've never been clear as to why they must talk this fast. It cannot be safe for anyone.
well I am glad the translations aren't a waste to time
@@Fee212 Standard terminology and readbacks ensure that the message comes out clear. If you didn't listen properly, don't guess, don't assume, read back all you heard and ask what you didn't, and you'll get the message read again. Standard terminology makes sure you don't mix one word with another or call something a name that's only known on a specific region as such. They gotta be fast enough when you've got as much planes in the air or waiting to get there as they do, and they're all hundreds of kilometers/miles an hour at any moment they're moving other than taxi and pushback.
This seems to be an American thing. In European countries which are not native English speaking the controllers are much more understandable.
@@74gear Oh surely they aren't, those guys (ATC esp.) are cutting so many corners on the pronunciation
Just want to tell you how much I appreciate your consistent vlog quality. You do a great job and I don't ever want you to stop. 😃
I was just checking if Kelsey posted a new vid, and here we go 4 min later :)
I’m anticipating a breakdown of the small plane landing on a Toronto highway this past week.
@@jmax8692 Awww, now you hurt my feelings...
Stop! Stop! Stop!
Ok, now watch.
well Ive been posting the same time on Sunday for almost 2 years
@@74gear like clock work. and I much appreciate you to.
There was a similar incident to this out of Philly. I think it was on VAS a couple weeks back but it also involved a Southwest aircraft. That in-air near miss was on admittedly on ATC
Thank your so much Kelsey for another great video. My late father was a pilot and later worked as a ATC. it's so enjoyable learning about how the communicate with each other
Another great video Kelsey! Even myself, a regional Barbie Jet driver love your videos. I recall a situation we had a while ago when we were at ORD (home base). There was us flying Barbie Jet airlines and another company Barbie Jet airways plane with similar callsigns. They told us to hold short of a taxiway and the other crew read it back, neither of us crews realized it because we were inputting data since we both got a takeoff runway change and we were busy with that. Ground tells us we were supposed to hold short of taxiway L to which I replied, we didn't read that back and the other crew keyed up and said they took the call. We always have to be on out toes for sure. It of course was a non event, the clearance was just for departure traffic sequence but that is always why I am hyper focused at base on a severe clear day now. Keep up the good work on the videos!
Hey Kelsey! I’m flying in February and you’re helping me to feel so much more at ease about my trip. Thank you for your videos!
I hope your arms doesn't get tired 😸
how was the flight?
@@soggyplays805 I ended up not going on the trip due to outside circumstances.
Hey Kelsey, I love your channel! Although I'm not a pilot, I work for one of the major's connection carriers in customer service, and have had a keen interest in aviation since i was a kid. I find your videos amazing, you do a great job explaining everything so us non-aviators can understand and learn more about aviation. I've had fun trying to figure out what airline you work for and think I have it. Maybe someday you'll be allowed to share with us. You are certainly a great representative for the airline. Thanks for sharing your life with us, I look forward to each new video.
The “Line up and wait don’t plan on stopping” would have thrown me off. Cause if you are lining up and *waiting* then you’re stopping. 😳
Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and love of flying! I was in the Air Force for 21 years and I learned a lot in my support role but you have filled in some holes.
Thank you, Kelsey for helping me with my fear of flying. I have always had a fascination with aviation but developed an INTENSE fear of flying when I turned 30 ( no idea why!! nothing major happened) Anyways...it is debilitating and your videos have given me a lot of knowledge and comfort regarding redundancies, checklists and the training involved with being a pilot. Plus, your videos are fun! Thank you!
I developed a nervousness/anxiety with flying after 9/11 enough that I don’t sleep well before a flight and I have nightmares
I just got accepted into Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and I can't wait to start my journey to commercial pilot! Thanks for providing some great educational entertainment in this field!
Congratulations! Enjoy school!
Congrats! My son will be joining you on the engineering side! Go Eagles!
@@PatrickRigney 👍😎👍
good luck man!
Fantastic situational awareness for ATC and both pilots prevented an accident and left this as an incident. I suspect there is a lot going on in both cockpits at the takeoff phase and radios being stepped on can be a problem.
This isn't just a great teaching video for those wanting to become pilots, it's a great teaching tool for anyone who works in an HRO. I teach CRM for my HRO and I love these examples. Thank you for the videos.
ATC isn't beyond reproach in the callsign confusion, both crews answer and the controller continues at the same speed to where the clearance melds together without any clear air between the bits of information. If two aircraft read back an instruction you should probably slow it way down instead of just going southwest382831centre clearfortakeoff. I really couldn't have told you 31C was the runway being called to take off without a subtitle.
I get why they want to issue clearances so quickly but as soon as it becomes apparent that there are multiple people reading back you really need to make sure you're understood. ATC did a great job correcting the situation but it's possible they could have mitigated it in the first place too.
I think the ATC was worried about making sure that the Southwest flight could take off before the landing on 4L, and that caused them to rush.
That was some _Cirrus_ risk, right there.
Always informative and always entertaining. Thank you very much for the work on this channel. Keep up the good work. We all benefit from this.
Not an airport I would want to fly into or out of everyday. SW was really on their game by asking if they were the plane that was cleared for take off. Better to ask and look stupid, than to assume you're in the right and end up dead. Even tho ATC was trying to keep up with what was going on, I think they should have step it up their game, and told both pilots to hold until he figured out who was stepping on who, and who heard what. He had to have known that there was some confusion going on. Great job Kelsey, love hearing you break all this down.
Atc said he had someone on a short final behind southwest which is why they had no delay to roll. The other unknown plane is the factor as to why he had to push out southwest to clear the runway. He warned ahead of time that they should except to stop. Atc did everything right. This is cut to only hear the 2 planes transmitting not the plane(s) landing on those runways.
Hey Kelsey. Love your channel. I am a Medical Officer and watch your videos when my duty shift ends. Keep up the good work !!!
-Dr. Deepon Chaudhuri, MD (Internal Medicine), COVID Frontliner and Aviation Enthusiast
As per your usual Kelsey, very informative. Not planning to become a pilot but find it interesting and I love learning. The fun one seriously made me laugh. Enjoy your content and personality a great deal.
Great video, Kelsey. Thanks for the lesson. Great example of what can happen on radio comms.
😳 WOW... Runway incursions always freak me out (far more than a traditional "crash" so to speak)
Great video as always!! LOVE the channel!!
Love your channel Kelsey. I have nothing to do with aviation, but I crave knowledge of all kinds. Thank you for your efforts.😊
[chuckling] Same thing here. I'm a retired librarian and knowing everything about everything was part of my job. Well, enough to know how to advise people. Still have the habit of wanting to know.
Often in YT comments I suggest channels or books, or information sites to other people commenting. One time I got called for "hijacking". Didn't know what that meant until the channel owner pointed out I had said something like "if you're interested" which is fine.
I tend to sign everything to cue people in, now ...
Retired librarian
From recently retired ATCer... Delta vs SWAL was an almost entirely controller caused issue - The ground and local controller knew of similar callsigns, and the crews were both also aware. Here's the question I would have asked; "What is the benefit of putting Delta on the hold?" Delta's closest traffic was 10 mile final. All the controller had to do was wait until SWAL rolled past the crossing runway, and then issue Delta the TO clearance. One of my first teachings as an instructor was to not issue clearances trying to be expeditious (or cool), and be prepared to rescind them, rather issue clearances when conflictions have been resolved. The controller was unsafe under those circumstances, backed up by the Delta crew not listening as well as they could have. "Don't Plan On Stopping" not specific phraseology. "Cleared for Takeoff" is. If the controller was certain SWAL would not have to stop, he should have just cleared them. Too much talking and too much non-standard/best practice controlling by ATC.
Good videos, I hope everyone learns from them.
This was excellent! I tend to always enjoy your stuff, but this was a very interesting exchange. Thank you much for sharing this. Happy Halloween!
My weirdest COVID moment was flying my daughter to do some touch and go's in our Cessna 182 at Dulles Airport in May, 2020. Did a touch and go on each runway, then a few turns around our house 2 miles away. In the 30 minutes we were with Dulles tower, we were the only plane on the freq.
I've been watching your channel for some months now and I finally understand why I gravitate towards your narration. Its very objective and you give the benefit of doubt to everyone involved. You refrain from pinning blame unless its gratuitous neglect. I really love hearing your opinion and appreciate the humanity in it. LOVE THE CHANNEL!
I’ve always wondered: is the audio quality from pilots and atc as bad as it is in the video in real life?
No. It's generally significantly better quality. These are all generally captured from amateur radios as well as from a much farther distance so the quality tends to be lower.
yeah it can be... dep[ends on the transmitter etc.
Old equipment versus new.... private run airport versus public...
Aircraft us the AM band that does have less fidelity then FM. Next time you get in your car tune in an AM broadcast frequency and listen to the difference. This is what pilots and ATC are using. So yes it can be very bad at times.
Many pilots used to learn to fly using a hand mike and speaker...no headsets. It was awful.
It's still bad in real life but generally much better than it sounds on RUclips
I appreciate these videos Kelsey and I'm glad you find the time to upload so frequently. :3 Your channel is actually what got me interested in aviation, especially ATC. If I didn't have such bad ADHD I might actually take ATC training.
Try it. Sometimes ADHD gives you heightened situational awareness. I'm ADD and it actually makes me a better pilot as I am paying attention to everything at once. Don't sell yourself short.
@@DarrenBushIf i don't get anything with this Masters in linguistics then i might do it. Thanks
@@Noikar Do it. Life is short.
Again, Excellent video. Just saw the one with the negative comments. Loved the way you handle them. People who bash others when they don't know what there talking about, well, they'll get it back ten fold. You reap what you sow. Keep the videos coming. May God Bless You and Keep You Safe.
My pet peeve when I was a center controller: Similar sounding call signs by the same carrier. There was one carrier we worked that flew into their hub in mass, several times a day. One of the pushes usually had six planes in the same sector simultaneously from one airline, and four to five of those call signs were similar. Everyday, we'd give them the required notice to use caution and just about everyday, they'd still screw it up. I filled out ASRS forms more than once. Completely preventable if the airline would switch a few numbers around on the flight numbers.
Delta: "He said something about something and then clear for takeoff... lets go!"
"He's clear, the Pan American?"
These videos are very informative and helpful.. I have been learning a lot from this channel since day one:)
Congrats on the 740k Subs milestone for the 74 Crew!
I've been watching these videos for months now, and I honestly don't know how people understand what ATC is saying -- everything is said so fast.
Gretchen,
ATC lingo is all scripted. At least, that's the FAA ideal. Each situation has its own specific phraseology. So it's really pattern recognition. Once you get the rhythm of the band, it becomes like muscle memory.
But that's NOT to say you shouldn't listen to what's being said!! Only that the muscle memory hearing helps alert you to the important stuff that's coming up. And it's then that you listen super intently
Also, getting and maintaining the "picture" is very important. You need to learn to visualize in your mind what everybody is doing.
And yes, at first it is overwhelming. But listen, listen, listen! And with time you will absorb and assimilate the pattern of the communications.
Having the picture can save your life.
But understand that it takes time and practice.
I was an air traffic controller for 25 years and a commercial pilot before that. I remember well the challenge of learning ATC talk. And as a 17 Y-O student pilot it was absolutely the MOST intimidating thing. I imagined the ground controller sitting behind his machine gun.
(I have a very active imagination.) Perseverance pays off. So hang in there and keep listening!
@@whydidyouresign Thanks! That's a very helpful answer.
@@gretchenlittle6817 👍☺
When I was in the Air Force, we took three KC-135 aircraft up to Nellis AFB, for Red Flag. We were to provide fuel to the fighters, so they could stay airborne longer. Nellis is primarily a fighter base. The ground controllers kept directing us onto taxiways, meeting another aircraft head on. Each time that would happen, the tower would advise us to just go around them, because they do it all time. Fighters can pass on taxiways. Our tankers already have the engines hanging off the taxiway, and can’t move over or turn around. That was a dangerous week for us.
Maybe you should have done some malicious compliance, taxied onto the same taxiway and stopped. Then asked the controller to send a tug and ride along on the tug to explain to you how exactly you were supposed to go around each other.
Hey, you're there for training, how were you supposed to know the controller wasn't? ;-))
Hi Kelsy! Been binge watching ur videos now for a few months. Love it. Also subscribed.
Waiting on my training date to become a FA and hope to meet you one day.
Happy New Year 2023!!
I love your channel.I worked on/with B747s from 1993 when I joined British Airways straight on to a classic course until the 10th of My 2004 when I was crippled by a stroke, my favourite B747s were the cargo aircraft both classics and -400s because there is no IFE on a cargo Aircraft, zero self loading cargo on a freighter to keep entertained during the flight!
In the Delta / Southwest incident reminds me of what happened at Tenerife
All those years after Tenerife and they still haven’t improved the technology.
Tenerife was a rather higher cost. The only good thing was that some people from the PanAm survived. But yes, radio transmissions being stepped on, and confirmation bias, were common factors.
@@alexandermonro6768 It's only the weather that made the difference.
Another great video demystifying aviation. I always wondered how on earth you can pull any info from that crappy audio. Hopefully it's not that bad of a quality in the aircraft
Yeah. I’d be doing a lot of “say again?”s. . . Happily, the airport I flew at was a lot lower density. . .
its not always as bad in real life as it sounds here
Every flight from which you walk away on your own legs is a damn goooood one.
I was once on duty as radio-operator and controller at our local recreational airport. One aircraft was in the air , instructor with the student and another was preparing to go. He started the engine, heated up and was ready to go. Asked for permission, I told him to wait, another aircraft is on final approach (about 40 seconds to touchdown). About 10 seconds to landing, the pilot of the second aircraft decided he waited for long enough, gave throttle and was about to enter the runway in preparation for takeoff. At about the same time I shouted "STOP STOP STOP" and the student of the first aircraft noticed, despite the sun blinding him, that something is about to enter the runway and aborted the landing. Second pilot got some grilling from the person in charge later that day and did not fly for a while.
I just found your channel. I really enjoy listening to you explain things.
Something I’ve wondered about. I have a buddy who’s a cop, and listening to his radio, if he keys up the same time as another officer, he’ll get a beep which means he cannot talk until the other officer is off the air. I wonder why airlines aren’t like that.
There is no technical reason for it. A subcarrier can be generated in the transmitter, which is picked up by all receiving stations, locking out their transmitter until the subcarrier goes away (or until an override button is pushed). This is backwards compatible with existing radio systems. This is proven technology that's easily implemented either as a very small circuit, or generated digitally.
This system is already in use but 'in reverse' to keep receivers quiet until the right station is speaking (CTCSS).
I'd assume that if it were a big deal, that people would've already done something about it. But maybe i'm underestimating the inertia. Manufacturers of radios would have to be forced to settle on one common standard so the system works on all planes, regardless of the manufacturer. Of course everything has to be tested rigorously, and who wants to pay for that?
ya I think I have heard something like that but we don't have that feature
@@mfbfreak And virtually all public service radios are _FM_
@@mfbfreak Why a subcarrier? Just build a radio that will lock out triggering the transmitter when the squelch opens up to allow another transmission through.
I don't know enough about AM/FM systems. I know the FM radio I use does that, but never experienced it with an AM radio.
But then you would also have no opportunity to talk over an open mic.
After watching many of those "Mayday" disaster documentaries, I could see myself as a pilot, but there's no way I could be an ATC. Too much to keep track of, too much stress, and everything relies not on not just your own choices, but in hoping that other people you can't control doing what you tell them.
Listen to ATC at night when it's less busy and get a feel for communicating when there are fewer planes to sequence. Takes a while to get used to Rush Hour at a high-traffic airport with crossing runways.
That's ironic to me because as an airline pilot, when I watch those shows I ask myself why I didn't just stay an airline mechanic.
@@jonesjones7057 to be fair if you forget to peel away a piece of duct tape after maintenance you could still cause the death of 200 people. Mechs also have a high responsibility which I also learned from ACI lmao
Awesome video! Thank you so much for making these!
Always a great informative job, thank you
I'm really enjoying your content mate... best part is I don't even know why....lol.
I guess you're just a likeable guy.
Cheers 👍
I'd be really interested in knowing how many hours the delta crew have at midway. I caught it on the first go round that southwest obviously had the priority. and how did the code brown pilot run like that during a code brown? if I have a code brown running isn't an option. well it is but then there isn't a code brown any more. just a shower and change of clothes
Yeah, but that seat needs replacing and it's a bit more expensive than some dry cleaning.
You caught it because a) you probably weren't distracted doing anything else important, and b) you've been primed by the context of this video that something is going to get screwed up with radio calls. Now I'm not making excuses for the pilots, obviously they weren't paying close enough attention when they should have been, but it's at least understandable how they could end up in that scenario.
maybe the turtle had already left the shell and was just running to his car 😆
@@74gear o m g.... tmi!
Its gonna be code super brown
Nice kelcy good job with the vids and the breakdown and explanation you are awesome keep it up😊🎉🎉🎉
Diagrams and highlights are a big help in understanding. Thanks.
In my naivety, I always considered airline pilots as super heroes who never make mistakes but your video proved me wrong... but you know what? I'm not going to change my opinion on my "super heroes" (including you of course) no matter what ✈
So thank you for your video Kelsey, lots of love from Rome 💗
Rome is such a great city.. and ya we are human its good to share these things so pilots can learn early on and everyone can know what is going on when they are flying around 👍✈
@@74gear That sounds reassuring Kelsey and yes Rome is a great city and it's waiting for you 🥰
What I find reassuring is that most pilots aren't superheroes, yet can fly us about with near-perfect safety.
There's some aptitude involved, obviously: you can't make just anybody into a pilot. (And pilots do get let go for not training up well enough.) But good training and focusing on systemic safety rather than relying on individuals to perform brilliantly at all times is what makes air transport so safe.
So when you were given permission to taxi wherever during COVID, did you take advantage and do a little tour?
Great job !!! your on your way to 1 mil!! Love watching !!!!!
I'll make sure to have a look through my footage and see if I have any ATC Vs pilot videos for you.
Flying a smaller aircraft definitely has a little more leeway. Keep the videos coming, thanks so much 🙏
One of the causes of the Tenerife disaster was pilots transmitting over each other too... You'd think in 40 years we'd have come up with some way to stop that from happening...
RE: Southwest and Delta, I don't think that the ATC should escape as they talk too fast and that is definitely a contributing factor. If they could talk no faster than you do then I could fly into any airport. I am from Australia and do speak perfect english but there are many people who do not have it as a first language so they are at risk of misunderstanding. Great debrief Kelsey. André
Love your aviation channel, been here for a while now, keep going. And find more tiktok to roast!
It's hard to believe that we don't get charged for these videos. It's mind blowing the amount of information we get on this channel. It makes my own YT subscription more than worth it.
Thank you 74 Gear 💖
Happy flights all days forward sir.
ATC should maybe have said "Delta 1328, line up and wait, number 2 for departure after traffic on runway 31 C", would probably have avoided this. talking about the landing traffic was spurious.
Hindsight is 20/20 and maybe he'll do that in the future, but ATC's job already involves a lot of talking all day. Given that he had warned them about the similar callsigns he could reasonably expect them to be paying attention and not need to hold their hands all they way.
@@KimonFrousios that was a different controller. 1st one was ground, 2nd was departure
Maybe delta pilots getting there head out of their ass would help greatly. They were already advised of a similar callsign, also there were many other clues and cues.
@@srobak Tower, not Departure. You don't typically talk to Departure (or Approach) on the ground. Generally, Ground controls the taxiways, Tower controls the runways and immediate vicinity of the airport, then Departure/Approach controls the remainder of the Class B/C/D airspace around the airport.
Normally when ATC tells you are "number x" they're talking about for the same runway. Saying number 2 behind traffic on a different runway would probably just have confused things further.
"On the grass and on the glass." Sounds like code for a drugs
Keep up the good work! Love your videos :)
I always come away from these videos learning something/s interesting about aviation...cheers for the videos
Kelseyville, I was listening in the shower. You mentioned "code brown" just as I steeped out. I had forgotten about it. But you, made me remember. I was laughing so hard I had to stop moving so I wouldn't falk!!! Fine job!!!
Sounds like two way communication needs to be a thing for air traffic. One of the reasons I didn't get into amateur radio, always getting stepped on.
The command is to line up and wait. Don’t plan on stopping isn’t a command. If the SWA was paying attention he should know that there is a plane on final. When ATC says don't plan on stopping that’s his way of saying that he’s trying to get the SWA out before the landing traffic so SWA needs to hurry onto the runway so that can happen. If SWA does that and the controller knows he can get SWA away in time he will clear them for takeoff before they stop, but if they can’t get away then he won’t clear them and they will wait as previously commanded. At least that’s what I’d say based on my experience.
I enjoyed this video. You're very good at these now.
Great video. You posed the question "well how many times does this happen"? Unfortunately, in aviation, it only has to happen once to be a disaster - a game changer. A small piece of debris on a runway in Paris turned the most statistically safe airliner in the world to the most deadly in a few seconds. That is why the stakes are so high and the bar of professionalism is set to such a high degree. No matter if you be the Controller, the fueller the man who puts the windshield screws in or the Pilot, you have a massive input into the outcome of every aircraft movement.