Why societies collapse | Jared Diamond
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- Опубликовано: 27 окт 2008
- www.ted.com Why do societies fail? With lessons from the Norse of Iron Age Greenland, deforested Easter Island and present-day Montana, Jared Diamond talks about the signs that collapse is near, and how -- if we see it in time -- we can prevent it.
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21 years later his talk still falls on deaf ears!
21 years later and he still hasn't found a sympathetic barber.
Somewhere around 13 to 14 minutes into the speech, he mentions the current year as 2003. Where did you get 21yrs? Simple math error? Or am I the only one without a DeLorean and flux capacitor. If I heard him correctly, his talk was 17 years ago. While your central point is valid, accuracy on material facts is still important. As a society, we obviously need to manage our resources as well as relationships with each other and our environment, and influence our outcomes as much as possible with sustainable decisions.
You mean 12?
No
auraguard02 Mr. Diamond said 2003 so 17 years ago!
A great civilization destroys itself from within before it is conquered by outsiders!
Usally from people who think they are really intelligent. Lol
Like Trump!
It will be interesting to see how our current political situation will be looked at in the future. Also, I wonder if those who are acting in their own interests realize it will come out eventually and history will not be so kind...
@@muhshekkelzson6063 trump is a national socialist as was Adolph Hitler...right wing propaganda is scary...xenophobic...racist...and misogynist!
@@muhshekkelzson6063 Gosh, you right wingers wallow in ignorance !!
1. Human impact on environment, resource destruction.
2. Climate Change.
3. Relationship change with allies.
4. Relationship change with enemies.
5. Politic, economic, social conditions.
Truth not quite, morals include having family values, these values require security, jobs, food, education etc, this is what civilization is supposedly built on. All this takes resources, resources aren’t infinite, the rule of the jungle returns not because of a lack of morals but because of a lack of resources. When humans can’t get the things they desire they take it from others. The taking happens now, but the elites disguise it as legislation and commerce, but ostensibly its plain theft.
well I disagree with his "woe is us we discovered agriculture" interpretation - it is certainly true that bad practices can cause soil erosion and depletion - over fertilization raises salinity, mono cultures and pesticides do their harm - Perkins pointed out a lot of this a century before Diamond - but as for climate change we know for a fact it always has and it's unlikely we can alter it any more than a water beetle alters the course of a river. some have said that wars ultimately are fought over resources - land, water, minerals, forests, fishing grounds, hydrocarbons - can't argue with that but I have a notion that some of the earliest scuffles were between a tribe that worshiped the Moon versus one that worshiped the Sun, so ideology has to be taken into account - certainly the last couple thousand years has been between Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Pagans and I think it's not untrue to say it was over cotton or gold but it's a little simplistic
@Truth I believe your concern comes under number 5. Political, economic, social, and cultural factors that make it likely they will solve their problems.
However, conservatives don't solve problems because it takes change to solve problems and conservatives, by definition, don't want change.
He is just recapping whats in his boolk
in other words.... everything!
This man's hair fell out and he simply glued it back onto his head. Respect.
He's in denial about the collapse of his hair and failed to implement measures to save it. We should do a 5 point analysis.
Thecompleteguitarist 🤣😂🤣
Do you have a channel because I'd follow you.
LolololololololololololoL
OMG! OMG! 😂
I look at who is in control, how well educated they are, what their motives are, what they say and what they do and I can only conclude that we are doomed.
The best type of person that can fit into a place of power is the type of person who doesn't want to do it, but everyone else wants him to. There, the majority either sees something in a person that that person does not, or at the very least then the man or woman won't want to dissappoint.
Of course the latter is more of an ideal then realistic, but the first has at least some merit.
@@spoonman9584 Sounds OK until you notice who "everyone else" actually is.
🤣 🖖 👌
@@spoonman9584 You must be Muslim
@@RobertIsraelKabakoff Basically people like politicians, priests, and their "enforcers'.
They make the rules and we live with the consequences. B well m8. 🙂
@@RobertIsraelKabakoff There is no paradox. Anyone who expects all life to be at the stage we are is just fooling themselves.
🤣 🖖 👌
Apparently the youtube algorithm is trying to tell me something about 2020.
@@JasonHewkins And it is hidden from fools (ergo: from the rest of humanity) 😂😂😂
Chris Hedges has been telling you in every book, article, and lecture of his since 2004.
The Democratic party is beyond reform, and it doesn't want to. The ONLY sane move at this point is to #DemExit and mass revolt. All else is contributing to the perpetuation of criminal neoliberalism, warmongering, and ecocide.
Just because it has the word liberal in it does not mean its a democrat ideology. Quite the opposite, do your home work. A simple Wikipedia search...
@@Revolution-tl5wo Neoliberalism is contemporarily used to refer to market-oriented reform policies such as "eliminating price controls, deregulating capital markets, lowering trade barriers" and reducing state influence in the economy, especially through privatization and austerity.[6] It is also commonly associated with the economic policies introduced by Margaret Thatcher in the United Kingdom and Ronald Reagan in the United States.(wikipedia "neoliberalism")
Probably the algorithm simply tries to tell you to buy his book, "Collapse - how societies choose to fail or succeed". I found it a good book, thought provoking.
@@Revolution-tl5wo Okay...I get your point. But won't your solution lead to a situation where one group of people ends up (assuming the success of your revolt) imposing their will upon the rest of the community (however you wish to define that term)...vey similar to what Trump and the Republicans were/are trying to do?
"So it's particularly difficult to change course when the things that get you in trouble are the things that are also the source of your strength" --- The key therefore is for society to recognize this and successfully overcome the inhibition to change.
So, fossil fuels?
Yeah what if that same attitude to change.. ie try to adapt.. is one of the strengths of that community?
Btw.. that is one of the strengths of a lot of communities of past and present.
@@bryanstark1930 Attitude is one thing, technology and its effects are another. Fossil fuels have provided civilization a massive boost in development and are difficult to discard for both developing nations and developed nations, which may very well be one of the reasons for societal collapse...hard to say.
Diversity is our strength 💪💪
@@fred7883 Touche!
Goddamnit, it's 12 years later and we are even speeding up. This isn't going to end well.
Auuhh Huuhh, My thoughts exactly !
But what caught Me is Youu said things are seeming to be 'speeding up.'
I get whaat Youu mean but I have not really heard anyone say anything along those lines when it comes to well things and life and society.
Could Youu elaborate a little bit on what Youu meant when Youu said that though, it made Me curious to see how Youu see things if thaat is how Youu perceive life right now outside of Yourself in the World.
Like Whaat is 'IT' thaat We are speeding towards exactly ?
@@RaisedxFist an even darker world, mass psychosis
@@RaisedxFist Absolute authoritarian rule, to begin with. The rise of a global Nation-State pushed by elites all over the world.
As a child I learned about the origin story of Superman. (Yes, Superman.)
The planet Krypton was obviously destroying itself, but Superman's father, Jor-El, could not convince the elite, a council of elders, to institute change. Just before the planet is destroyed Jor-El places his son in a spaceship to save him.
I always thought the story was too much of an imaginative leap. Certainly no society with obvious evidence of self-destruction would continue down such a path. WITHIN MY OWN LIFETIME, I have seen the possible crisis of climate change become increasingly certain and watched large, powerful people opt to do nothing, and in fact, actually work against mitigating a coming global disaster.
Knowledge does not always yield insight and insight does not always yield corrective action, especially in the face of selfishness, greed and conservative social values that mock science and knowledge and fear change and keep us as a society from preventing or significantly mitigating the coming epochal disaster.
It turns out the Superman origin story has more wisdom in it than I gave it credit.
When a society becomes consumers instead of producers. It declines!
boomers instead of coomers
His book _Collapse_ says most societies die for the same reasons, poor job adapting to the environment, or they messed up their environment, or became huge and dependent on a central government which failed them when natural resources changed, people starved or died of thirst, or destroyed because they destroyed their forests and thus all their natural resources, like Rapa Nui/Easter Island did, cut down all of their trees to make big huge statues to compete with each other.
@@AdamWestish 100% correct! All great societies become overwhelmed by both consumerism and environmental collapse. Unfortunately we
Are taking the world down
with us on this collapse.
America has lost it’s reason to be/exist.
Nonsense. Without consumers the producing society will collapse. You need a balance of both.
It's simples, people ignore what's in front of them or try and comb over the issue!
Haha...
You dont like his comb over!
And their hair.
You go out there door to door and change that
I already read Guns, Germs and Steel and now I want to proceed reading his book Collapse. I just love his style, the topics and how he presents them
Upheaval too.
The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee, also.
Societies collapse when they start feeding on their own. This is happening in the USA.
If someone gives a simple answer to why societies survive it's an idiot talking - the talk
The constant in this speech is, no elite escapes the long run of inevitability.
''The things that get you in trouble are also the source of your strength''.
TED is doing its best to make us all deaf with its intros. The difference in volume between the intro and the talk is ridiculous
I actually asked that question on Quora .. www.quora.com/Is-there-a-reason-that-the-opening-and-ending-sound-cues-for-TED-talks-are-so-loud
"its the end of the world as we know it, but I feel fineeeeee"
"I dont mind" 😜
This guy took the comb-over to a whole new level
Trump has him beat
Why do people bother with combovers and toupees? Just go bald.
Top 5 comb over complexity
He is in the top three with Trump and Al Davis, former Raiders owner
Lionel Hutz but the content still relevant 1000 years later. Who cares what the messenger looks like
Very well spoken. It is very sad and dissapointing that our own doing could very well be our own demise
Jared Diamond is one of those rare academics that write books that anyone can read. Smart guy, too. I'd suggest the Third Chimpanzee to anyone interested in catching a glimpse of some of the reasons the world is the way it is.
Anyone can read his books. Sigh.
@@garypuckettmuse Yes. Normal, non-scientific people can read his books and learn something. They're not complex English, and not like some of the poorly written, jargon-filled texts I had to endure at the University.
Loved his book, Collapse, but have since realized the main weakness in his arguments is the confusion of "society" with "nation". The collapse of the Soviet Union is not an example supporting his case. That was a failed nation not a failed society. For further reference, read "Why Nations Fail" by Acemogly and Robinson. However, in the timescale of human history, his premises have merit.
A moral collapse that is attacking the family, the basic building block of society. You can lose your money and get more, but if you lose your moral compass you are lost with no way home.
The Soviet Union was a union of nations, not a nation in and of itself. It failed because the nations split up. It was a collapse of a society/civilization.
شكرًا لكم، وشكرًا للمترجم العربي.
ملخص الأسس الخمسة لانهيار المجتمعات:
1. الأثر البشري على البيئة (تدمير الموارد).
2. تغير المناخ.
3. تغير العلاقة مع الحلفاء.
4. تغير العلاقة مع الأعداء.
5. الظروف السياسية والاقتصادية والاجتماعية.
- للمحاضر كتاب مفصّل بعنوان: (الانهيار .. كيف تحقق المجتمعات الإخفاق أو النجاح؟)، صدر مترجمًا عن مكتبة العبيكان.
“Where there is a conflict of interest between the short-term interest of the decision making elites, and long-term interest of the society as a whole. Especially if the elites are able to insulate themselves from the consequences of their actions. Where what's good in the short run for the elite is bad for society as a whole, there's a real risk of the elite doing things that will bring the society down in the long run"
Just came across this piece while wandering on informative RUclips talks. Just realized as a Somali my society collapsed many years ago, if this lecture is anything to go by. Unless there’s some different meaning for collapse, Somalia 🇸🇴 is one the country’s in east Africa that has had peaceful elections and transfer of power. The society has been resilient against all odds: terrorism, disease, hunger etc. The population has been steadily increasing and Somalis known as business oriented are one of the major investors in the neighboring countries.
Drinking game: take a shot everytime he removes his glasses
I don't drink, but after having watched this I want to drink myself comatose...
If you want a boot factor of 10, also drink every time you notice the comb-over.
LOL
@@lashlarue7924 I know right lol
Lololol
So glad to see him speak. His books are stunners. Thank you for the opportunity to see this national treasure.
great talk. truly thought provoking.
Great speech and good lesson! Thank you!
I respect Jared Diamond and I've read his book, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. I plan to read more of his work. I don't know if I can sit during his lectures if they are all like this zzzzzz!
This man is prophetic. We should listen to him. We need to introduce him to MSNBC & CNN.
I see in a wikipedia article about him he dropped the comb over and looks much better. Very intelligent discussion as well.
I found this very insightful and interesting. Also very topical. The insulation of the Elite classes of the various world societies that serve the short term goals of the Elite to the detriment of the long term success of the society as a whole. :/. Thank you for sharing and for your work.
If you aren’t familiar with Jared Diamond his book Guns Germs and Steel is fantastic. There was actually a Nat Geo special about it.
It's because you arent on their team..think about it
Yes indeed!
I love it! FINALLY someone who knows the earth gets hotter and colder NATURALLY. We are also still existing an ICEAGE so,,,,,, HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Back at you "Grendel ThornyMonster'
Is the American dream nothing more than a list of material possessions ?
I’m reading this book right now and the current events can’t be coincidence!
it's worse than it was a year ago i can assure that.
We shall overcomb!!
Good one Moosehead! Are you from Nova Scotia by chance Moosehead?
marqy007 Nope. But we have owned a summer place in Cape Breton, NS for 20 years. Love it there! You?
@@MOOSEHEADstadia2024 There's a popular beer brewed in Halifax, NS called Moosehead glugglugglug. I lived down Yarmouth way back in the 90s and visited some friends in Sydney mines. The whole East coast is the best! ...an me mathers frum PEI eh by! Cheers!!
No we should vote this guy as President.
Maybe
I had to stop at Colombia being on the edge of collapse. These are some of the happiest, centered and loving people I’ve ever met
Excellent primer on Diamond's attitude-shifting work
The more astounding and unlikely thing is for a society to ever come together.
So times are getting tough for the Montana Robber Barons... So sad to hear that.
The robber barons were a 19th century phenomena. By the 1950s sustainable logging plans were in place to provide healthy forests for centuries and money for schools and roads. Misinformed, politically motivated and market manipulators destroyed logging income. Montana's economy was attacked by outside forces, most of whom thought they were helping.
Great lecture ...
I can't stop looking at his comb over.
His comment about Greenlandic vikings not being able to smelt iron due to deforestation is not accurate. The vikings used what we call bog iron, derived from burning peat in kilns. Greenland was warmer when they first settled there, but the Little Ice age and encroaching glaciers significantly impacted life, ultimately making herding and farming untenable. As it was, the long winters resulted in their livestock being kept indoors so long that they had to be carried outside in the spring due to severe muscular atrophy. As the climate cooled and the winters lengthened, they could no longer sustain themselves that way. I don't believe that it was much forested when they arrived so the impact of supposed deforestation is debatable; the vikings were adept with life in cold climates, as evidenced by their heritage in Iceland and Norway.
Pretty much everything he says is wrong ruclips.net/video/qvaxPH3ftUQ/видео.html&app=desktop
Spot on
@@spiritsplice he has an agenda
Right. And speaking as a Montanan (and not just a one-summer hired hand)... his assessment of this state's economic and ecological situation led me to tag him IYI (Intellectual Yet Idiot). He reminds me of the urbanites who think ranches consist of one cow in a neatly mowed paddock, and believe hamburger comes from McDonald's.
Also reminds me of how archeologists tend to seize on anything they can't identify as "used in rituals", and what they don't find as "never developed". As someone points out below, the lack of fishhooks doesn't mean they refused to eat fish (lutefisk, anyone?), it just means they used nets, like everyone else who routinely relies on ocean fish for dinner.
As to the common speculation that the Greenland Vikings disappeared into the native population... apparently not.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289681/
Greenland has coal, tho I don't know if it's at the surface or if the Vikings used it.
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166516203001782
That comb-over though....
Good intentions in this information.
Life is a miracle beyond words and I hope our kids will love life as I have.
can't take my eyes off the comb-over
Art For Arts Sake - We shall overcomb!
Yes, it was distracting.
Anyone who is so shallow they can't concentrate on what this man says because of how he looks? Really? Humans are SO ego-centric.
This video was made in 2003 we still haven't resolved
Any of these problems and we are still here
Nothing has changed
Nothing will change until its too late
When there is more people who follows than people who can thinks by themself in a society it’s when it goes downhill.
To much people takes decisions on a dime without any analysis or knowledges about this decision.
What they think is the truth is the truth.
This is really informative and relevant in 2022
One of the best “pinpointing” lectures I have ever listened to
👍🏻💜💕💚🤍💙
Thoroughly enjoyable and super educational. Thank you!
I enjoy all of his books....I will not be around to see his theories applied to the United States but it is likely that the process will be similar to past ones
I'm impressed by the lecture and the comb over.😊😊😊😊😊😊
it's playing right now but i can barely focus on it, mesmerized by the comb over. good grief why didn't someone tell him before filming started. buahaha
@@basketofdependables4244 !!!!!!!! :D)) ...still love the guy.
* puts glasses on *
SOCOYETY
* takes glasses off *
Biggus Dickus I’d like to here you do it in French dude.....
@@AndrewRobinson-ee7um Odd comparison, considering he's from Boston Massachusetts and his first language is English.
Also, *hear
In which case I apologise. ☺️
@@AndrewRobinson-ee7um No problem, man
Lol
Fckn Killed me
The fish always rots from the head down. And there is no mind-altering drug more powerful than money and status.
Awesome Talk!! Unfortunately the 1% is driving the boat and while they see the ice berg they are very focused on rearranging the deck furniture for their own advantage. .... no one is steering! (Unless you count the "invisible hand of the market"....but it's drunK!)
Well socialists think that they should steer, but all their energy is engaged in grabbing hold o the steering wheel, and they are content to let a few do the steering.
This up to date article (about our 'precious' elites) may interest you;
"The new elite’s phoney crusade to save the world - without changing anything.
Today’s titans of tech and finance want to solve the world’s problems, as long as the solutions never, ever threaten their own wealth and power.";
www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jan/22/the-new-elites-phoney-crusade-to-save-the-world-without-changing-anything
More hypocrisy;
Record private jet flights into Davos as leaders arrive for climate talk;
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jan/22/record-private-jet-flights-davos-leaders-climate-talk
consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2018/11/20/societies-are-too-divided-to-combat-climate-change/
Unless the general population, gets rid of the toady politicians who are beholden to the elites and corporations, only cosmetic changes will happen. WASF!
🔊 The market is driven by greed and fear🤑
This is your fear and is not backed by history nor facts at hand. Humanity is rather resilient in the long run, despite challenges and mistakes, and technology often plays a substantial part of societal solutions which has not been taken into account whatsoever by this speaker. Pessimism proves to be just too damn easy and irresponsible rather than to work and solve problems. Study in humanities must be tempered with bonafide STEM fields. It is not a surprise that many professors (such as this speaker) present problems to justify unproven theoretical teaching employment while solving absolutely nothing in the practical world. It is a form of irresponsible bitching about life in an arrogant yet sophisticated facade.
@@johnkeller9738 Your negative feedback tempers runaway pessimism. However, in honour of the speakers approach, he has an overarching nonspecific approach to appreciating causal factors. Yet he never defined exactly what is societal collapse. You're right in that people are resilient, and working together can and do reform a functional society IE Soviet Union to Russia. But in some situations fail to rebound from the brink IE Easter Island. A healthy pessimism in an approach to societal collapse tempers a blase, uninformed stance to preparedness. From your comments I'll put you in blase box.
i LOVE jared diamond.
Excellent talk vs Epic combover
How is Montana doing today? Nothing that tracks with Diamond. Fact check this guy.
This guy is generally an idiot academic philosopher/ theorist indoctrinating his students (and everyone else).
The most bold statement in this presentation is that utterly fantastic “combover”.
He apparently wasn't looking for a date from his talk
I know this video's gonna be a real kicker
Great video! Very cool!
Wow--- I am so impressed and appreciative of the public comments at large! It seems that you are really GOOD at very important things such as noticing hair styles and commenting on glasses! What a privilege to be in your intellectual company! Where have you been all my intellectual life? Hairstyles and hand habits--- these are important comments! Where did I do wrong thinking that importance lies in strengthening human welfare and in defeating bigotry and inequity? My bad! Thank you for your brilliant input- wow- I nominate these geniuses for president...
Call everyone stupid..and..right to the moral high horse we go..
every sarcastic person is a disappointed idealist
I think it is fair to comment on presentation skills, and I would hope that such an eminent scholar would be a better speaker. But yeah, these comments are still pretty brutal.
One of these geniuses actually became president. Now I know who nominated him.
What exactly were you expecting from the RUclips comments? Original contributions to the scholarship of societal collapse?
He should study California
Yaeh and the cost of living is more then quadruple the rest of the country. You're a delusional libral. People are leaving comufornia in mass the state is over run with homeless as well. Buisness are leaving in droves as well due to extremely high taxes that fund entitlement programs for the lazy
This aged like...
(you decide)
@Pancho Villa may I come and worship at your feet, seeing as you know all there is?
@Pancho Villa man you really got this whole thing figured out...
He should do one on why comb-overs collapse.
Oh man. That's funny!
Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!
Home run.
you'll have one one day.
Hugh Tierney Tierney, not necessarily. I am old and balding. Fortunately, I have a woman in my life as well as a mirror. Both remind me of my need to face reality.
On the subjects of hair loss and lost civilizations, this Ted talker is out of touch with reality.
Adaptability is inversely proportional to the level of specific adaptation. Once deeply adapted to a specific environmental and social state, a society can no longer effectively adapt to changes. It becomes brittle and breaks instead of bending.
the love of definitions went in the way of wisdom and greater picture grasp... here
This one should have been watched for 80m times. Sad.
This is a very good talk. Thanks for posting this gem. :-)
The crisis of the EasterI sland has been accepted knowledge for many years among scientists, up til an historian took a closer look at the logbook from the first dutch ship that visited the island. " The people are well fed and island is rich in agriculture" the captain wrote.
I was surprised at the quality rate then I checked when was this video made
"As flame rises, so does it fade. Such is the way of things."
-Vendrick from Dark Souls 2
The flame fades because it burns up the last of its combustible material. It becomes Resource scarce. Inflexible like Kodak.
Societies collapse when the psychopaths and sociopaths push the good people out and the normies do not fight back.
@J D I would agree that Mark covered inequality very well in his comment.
E.g. remember when we thought there’d always be adults in the room. Then the adults got kicked out.
@J D Inequality is meaningless. Nobody is equal to any other person. You'll have to define that in a ***VERY*** clear manner.
@J D Right, but "class" does not exist in the US, for example... we're class-less. When Americans use the word "class", it is a political abstraction... so I'm pointing out that in some societies they do actually have class, and in others, no... that's why you have to be precise.
that ad at the end though 👌
Well, It has been nice sharing this world with you all. See you out among the stars.....
Jared Diamond is one of our great big picture thinkers. We should pay close attention to what he says.
+Scott Wallace Another guy who will end up taking some shine away from others who already have had some of the answers to that. Revolutions destroy societies so that that can be remade better. To ask yourself how to prevent a society from collapse is to attempt to keep the human race from moving forward. Were talking about a race that brutally murdered and tortured a man because he said he was the son of a God(Very well known story). Honestly when you think about it, nothing of value is really lost when society collapses. Anyone who thinks any different is an idiot.
Sagan McVander
Nothing of value is lost when a society collapses? If human lives have no value, then there's no point in further conversation.
There are two types of humans. Those who want to survive by becoming better at survival instincts and those who want to survive by becoming more wise and capable of wisdom for future generations. When a revolution occurs, only the survivalist ironically are the ones that are left without a society. History repeats itself and as you can tell, there isn't anything that will stop the "large number factor" involved in the direction our society is going, no matter what this guy comes up with as an answer. To resist this aspect of nature will only waste more lives in the long run really.
+Sagan McVander Are you depressed or something? I hope yiu have enough sense to value your own life if it would be lost. It is not always the case that societies can be replaced with something better when they are destroyed. Think of many instances when barbaric people destroyed a society and then it never recovered..
+ Scott W. & NOT what scum celebrities say.
Shows perspective on, and value of, being energy independent versus dependence on for critical resources (oil) on extremist/unstable areas
Diamond's book on this subject is a pretty good, if lengthy, read. He goes into great detail about all of the things he touches on only briefly here.
He's a quack; GGS and Collapse are both ahistorical nonsense that have not withstood scrutiny by anyone who knows what they're talking about. Questioning Collapse collects many such critiques into one place.
@@CripplingDuality I certainly have my critiques of the book as well, and like any work should be critiqued, it is deserving of it. He didn't spend as much time as I'd like looking at societal successes, which are certainly a display of systemic resilience. He focused a lot on island societies instead of larger inland empires. There are things to question in his analysis. However, I believe that his work being so widely academically panned is somewhat overstated. The work you referenced seems to be the major source of contention, with other reviews being critical and questioning without going to the lengths of calling anyone a "quack."
That said, I'll do some further looking into the work you referenced.
The strongest argument in the book was how people move across E-W more than N-S. The weakest was probably Easter Island, which probably did not destroy itself.
Great book.
Great talk. I'm afraid human greed and selfishness will be what does us in, and I'm afraid it's hard- wired in our DNA. The Earth will breathe a sigh of relief when we're gone. No loss.
I couldn't agree more, men cannot understand this concept
That comb-over is a sign of societal collapse.
See me after class. Sigh.
@006pup Straight men. Gay men have been hip to this for a century at least.
hahaha
something he is overlooked
Excellent, I will listen to this over again but also share and forward this to a lot of people including family and friends.
I'm weird I like this stuff, don't know why it fascinates Me though.
Liked Sub'd and Shared !
it's kind of important... in a very significant way...
@@thefourthdymensionmusic
Apply it to the times of today and days in the times of the days in the times of which We live in.
Death and Destruction all around Us.
Saw him. Great. RPA.❤
Why do societies fail? With lessons from the Norse of Iron Age Greenland, deforested Easter Island and present-day Montana, Jared Diamond talks about the signs that collapse is near, and how -- if we see it in time -- we can prevent it.
Except the elites will never allow solutions that threaten their short-term interests.
what elites Judy? haha I make good money, am I elite? you're probably in the top 95% globally, are you elite? who are these elites that control the non elites?
you could probably say corporations and governments have vested interests to deliver "agendas" and "outputs", for instance, take Oil exports. Based on man-made measures like economic growth and GDP etc. we will continue to extract oil even if it means jeopardizing the future of the planet is as soon as by the end of this century. Why? partially because the people making these decisions are all already too old to worry about whether there will be a planet in say 2125 or not. It doesn't matter to them. In my humble opinion, I think we do have a global system of incentivization that overlooks sustainability of the planet/ecosystem.
+Jeremiah John You might start by looking at the attendees of the annual World Economic Forum at Davos. Not only do they consider themselves the global elite, but through their positions of power in economic, industrial, and political institutions they DO control much of the world's population's lives and prospects.
Kade Jones, He looks back, and explains to you, with the brief time outlawed, how societies rise and fail, with examples. His ideas are now generally accepted in his field and others. It is not his intent, here, to solve the significant problems (no one person will!)-he tells you, with examples, how some societies of the past failed to develop solutions, which also are quite complex.
And in the end unknowable for lack of solid evidence. We really don’t know why the Roman economy suffered during the 3rd century.
@@JRobbySh because of moral decay and family units disappearing....
I highly recommend his book he released 2 years after he gave this speech.
Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed (titled Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive for the British edition) is a 2005 book by academic and popular science author Jared Diamond, in which the author first defines collapse: "a drastic decrease in human population size and/or political/economic/social complexity, over a considerable area, for an extended time." He then reviews the causes of historical and pre-historical instances of societal collapse-particularly those involving significant influences from environmental changes, the effects of climate change, hostile neighbors, trade partners, and the society's response to the foregoing four challenges. It also considers why societies might not perceive a problem, might not decide to attempt a solution, and why an attempted solution might fail.
Great lecture and books! How many times did he remove and put on his glasses? Lol
Mr. Diamond needs to learn the difference between “complex” and “complicated”. His analysis is needlessly complicated. Yes, human society is a complex system, but that does not mean that societies fail for a panoply of complicated reasons. He completely misses the fact that there are essentially only two kinds of causes of societal collapse.
Take all the societies that have collapsed due to factors beyond their control, or to resource depletion, or disease, or changing inter-societal economics, or any number of other factors that are essentially non-political, and they all come under the heading “inability to adapt”. That’s Group A.
Most of the societies he treats separately as failing for different reasons are actually in Group A. We can study the specific modes of “failure to adapt” and learn what we can from them, but they’re still all in Group A. Grouping them in that way emphasizes the far more pernicious and far more common kind of societal collapse-Group B.
All other societies are in Group B, and they all collapse for a single reason: an authoritarian social structure implemented through arbitrary political laws enforced by an institutionalized system of legalized or legitimized coercion. Such systems are fundamentally unstable.
Diamond would no doubt dismiss such an analysis as “idiotic”; indeed, he even calls for more state regulation as a “solution”. But that simply emphasizes his own failure to grasp the fundamental nature of coercion as a ubiquitous destabilizing factor in the evolution of civilizations. The fact that the coercion may be institutionalized or legitimized does not change its inherently destabilizing effect on human interaction.
Diamond completely misses the special relevance of that analysis in the modern context of political “representative democracies”, wherein it is considered reasonable for the majority to tyrannize the minority...except where corruption or political maneuvering enables the minority to tyrannize the majority. Either way, politically enfranchised coercion is the problem.
All Group B societies follow the same pattern. As political fractionation inevitably increases, so does the number of disenfranchised minorities who, in their aggregate, eventually outnumber those who hold power. It is an inherently unstable social structure. It always collapses, and it has been doing so for the whole of recorded history. Diamond completely misses that.
You two would have an interesting discussion...you should look him up and talk about it sometime.
That's like saying people only die of one reason - inability to adapt... to getting hit by a bus, cancer, bullets, old age, etc
You are absolutely right. I think he just avoids that part of arguments as it undermines the whole system. Thank you for your analysis
*drool
I like your analysis and I'll take it even further. I think that the dynamic instabilities in your Group A are what largely create a fragile society, which is only then empirically manifested in observable Group B failures, which Diamond focuses. The capacity to face group B-type shocks is proportional to the cultural sophistication of institutions able to navigate and synthesize diverse perspectives towards complex, often self-regulating, behavior commensurate to the unanticipated shocks. Tyranny, whether by the masses or the masters, materially and ideologically must collapse these adaptive institutions in order to preserve their own power feedback loop, the accelerating self-consuming outcome of which is inevitable.
The algorithm is connecting the mf dots for me lol
wish it would do that for every single person on this platform. if the owners and devs of RUclips find these videos though they might take them down.
Bro same lmao
Dr. Diamond's scientific view of history is worth respecting. It is a bit eerie to listen to this in 2020 because of his ability to 'read the tea leaves'. I am extremely glad I read most of his books because he did help me refine my view of society, where we came from, and where we could potentially end up if we are not careful.
I can't get passed that comb over
I might be movin' to Montana soon
Just to raise me up a crop of
Dental Floss
to sell 'Jared' uptown...haha Daimond response!
Dental floss may become very popular soon -- a new study just found a strong link between gum disease and Alzheimer's.
(Yippy-Ty-O-Ty-Ay)
He made some predictions toward the end that haven't panned out but that could in part just be a matter of dates.
That's a good talk and a warning to us. Yet, I cannot not at least mention that massive combover 😂😂😂
Reality check, much like deforestation and clear cutting we allow the trees by our highways to remain, an illusion of being in the wilderness, but really has been clear cut.
A combover is much the same , it’s really a form of denial. Like the person who uses the same hole on their belts whilst their belly has pursued its second bread role. The frog in the pot syndrome ⌚️⏱⏱
Great video. Very intelligent man.
Truth in this statement, education has always been subjective, just because someone graduates from a certain educational facility/institution does not make them an expert in anything it only states that they have met the minimum requirements to achieve a certain level of achievement recognized by said institution....which in of itself may not be much of an achievement at all!
Yes because who's behind the ciriculum of these institutions. the brainwashing of society
Well yea because the schooling curriculum is control and written by the Rockefeller , a lot of people don't know this but they control everything in the world you would not believe all the companies that they own just research it it will blow your mind
Collapse is one of the best and most important non-fiction books I had ever read. An economist who didn't read collapse is not an economist.
Dear America, when will you learn?! When will you learn?! THAT YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!!!
Simple how can we learn when even our education systems and society havent changed and are teaching the same things and old outdated values.
man will do what man will do. throughout history, he has repeated the same mistakes. i don't expect that to change.
Nobody is entitled to the status quo. There is nothing sacred about the status quo.
That's one unsustainable comb-over!?!
You Savage rascal you lol 😂😂😂😂😂😂😭🙇🙇💯.
Adds to credibility. He must be a serious scientist, since he's clueless about appearances...right?
Another imminent major collapse
Great talk. But that comb over …….wow
He said there would be no millable lumber in the Philippines in 5 years and none in the Solomons in one year. So that would have been 2013. Did that happen?
Damn, that is a sick combover. Respect!