Just gotta say I really appreciate all the solid info you’ve put out throughout the years so we can make informed decisions about our setup and not just falling victim to marketing and hype.
Unfortunately… I heard dwindle is… dwindling. They fired bill Weiss owner of madness, team manager and brand manager for blind. Enjoi is done. It’s owned by an investment company. And they are doing what a lot of corporations do. It doesn’t work in skateboarding tho
Dwindle has been trash for quite a while. WHile they innovated in the epoxy, their wood has been garbage for a while and that sucks for me, someone who was a World Industries Mega-Fan from the beginning in the late 80s and early 90s.
@@tpderp5038 its not only skater owned, but skater run that is key. Death Skateboards is both, owned & run by Nick Zorlac, uses wood from Woodchuck Laminates, which is both, run & owned by Max DuFour. Film Trucks is both, owned and run by Jeremie Daclin. Snot Wheels is both, run and owned by FOS, owner of Heroin Skateboards. Zealous Downhill Equipment, who make innovative bearings is both, run and owned by Bryce Brady. Other skater owned and run companies include Corey Littlejohn's Lil Jawns Rails, The Miller Family's Riptide Sports and Dave Defiant's Defiant Upgrades. And who can forget Mike Vallely's Street Plant?
I'll be real with you , I had this problem for the first 10 years of skating where sometimes I'd get a new board and randomly I'd be ghost popping every trick I tried and it was making me feel crazy like I was skating wrong . Wish I would have known these things in my younger days but on a positive note at least kids have access to this kind of knowledge today . Thanks Ben , and also to Paul Schmitt 🤙👊
Early 90's, with the change from 80's boards to roughly the "modern" popsicle shape, I found I could not ollie with the "new" boards with fingers of flat. I went from easily jumping over anything to being unable to jump over a beer can. From kickfliping up a set of three or four stairs to being unable to ollie up a curb. The board was glued to the floor, the tail did not snap. It drove me nuts. My solution was buying old 80's boards and using a "popsicle" as a model to reshape them using the nose as tail(mellower) and the tail as a nose(steeper). Late 90's early 2k's were hard for me, flat skinny boards, bearing condoms wheels, etc. Some time ago I watched a video when Mr. Degros explained the "technique" to skate boards with fingers of flat.
@@bendegros its funny because this is my ideal skateboard among other reasons (lets not get into the mad mad world of pressure/old school tricks) that love that extra fingers of flat.
@@chrhadden I went from about half inch risers and half inch baseplates(Gullwing street shadow) to a quarter of an inch total (shock risers and Indy baseplates). I got used to having a nose quite fast, flips up to anything, noseslides and "nosepick grinds" were my thing for a while. Later on couldn't get used to flat skinny boards with fingers of flat and the non existing wheels were a joke to me.
awesome review... love the detail and intricacy...you can always just drill new holes in the back truck area. i did that on a blank that i have had for like 17 yrs, lol.... one thing i find really confident inspiring is when the front bolts have less flat to the nose... your foot just sits perfect and you don't have to worry about pushing to hard because it wont make the back come up... man that just feels so good in bowls. tks.
This is good stuff. I've been skating in some capacity for more than 10 years and this is the first time I've ever heard about this. Most people only mention about length and width when talking geometry.
about a month ago I switched from 14.5 wheel base to 14.25 and same thing, shorter board and same width but 100% accurate video. Everything you said makes sense now. Thank you for that
great video, I have recently switched to almost decks because of the shapes. I love the 2 to 3 fingers of flat, the mellow concave, single deck press, and overall attention to detail. Almost decks from now on for me.
100%. This is why I still shop in skate shops as opposed to buying boards online. Well one of the reasons. I favour BBS boards for this too. Always at least 2.5 in the tail, around 2 in the nose.
Sad to see Almost probably on the way out, really thoughtful shapes and (mostly) classy art..Glad I got one of their decks recently. I have two setups, an FA and an Almost and they are very different, but I enjoy them both equally.
Ben I enjoy your videos and your compensation for boards and trucks that meet your needs I'm a flat ground phenom But I suck at manuals and ledges cause I always ignore them keep improving skating
For me I think 35 degrees is most favourable angle for the pop to start. In general I like both of the tips to be similar steepness so I could skate flat without thinking which is the nose and tail, it doesn't need to be a twin tip at all.
Nope, my new favourite degree is around 34. Or it's just my brain thats been messed too much by the environment. Sometimes skateparks just don't feel as good as some random spots.
my first non kmart board was an almost (way past them being cool, only like 4 years ago lol) and i loved the mellow concave feel. I kinda dig the visual of how quick you have to catch your flatground tricks, you obvs have the chops for that, but i can understand that it might not feel super great, but interesting how it seems to lend itself to a transition/ledge kinda setup. Love your wisdom & analysis as always Ben
Could you re-drill the tail truck back 1/4 inch to test your theory? Or do you think other variables like the kick angle or shape of the concave would be make this a bad match? Love the channel brother. Old head here, 90’s crew represent. ❤
@@vancouverbill it’s not too big a deal. Back in the day boards would sometimes come double drilled, I’ve also drilled back boards to make bigger noses when it was tough to get a board with a big enough nose.
haha ok man, opened this video and I'm like he looks sooo familiar... that's because I've watched tons of your home improvement videos! And you skate! That's too good!
Limosine boards have been killing it for me, they are bareback but the shape feels better than any other bareback boards I’ve had. They definitely have that blunt but still popsicle nose
Interesting. It makes sense that the angle and length of the tail and nose affects the way a board feels and reacts while doing tricks. I have an unused old Nanda Zipp board afriend gave me from Sonic (he was doing the artwork for their boards back then), made in either '97 or '98. It's 7 1/2" wide and it has a blunt nose. However, the tail and nose are a bit on the mellow side, a little more scooped than that Almost board you have. My current set up is an old Salman Agah deck from '93 or '94 with Thunder trucks from roughly the same year (can't remember which ones) that I've been using. New wheels and bearings of course. It's my old deck from the early/mid 90s. Boards during most of the 90s were 7 1/2" wide. Just recently got back into skating and figured I'd start with what I've got. Anyway, happy riding! Love your videos, Ben!
Hey Ben, thanks for yet another informative video! I've been riding CCS Custom decks because I like to put stupid images on my boards, but I know very little about the decks other than width, wheelbase, and length - I'd be curious to see your take on how those perform
Was that marble countertop salvage also a great product would be called the "true blank" and i could have a grid printed or better engraved on the top that you could use as a guide to drill your own holes for a personal custom setup.
I'm short at 5'3 and my weight ranges between 160-190lbs depending on time of year. My short legs need a little help. Right now I have a girl G027 has 3 fingers of flat nose and tail. Nose is 6.75" long and the tail is slightly longer at 6.8" I have ace af1 and 54mm wheels speedlab sidecut. Feels good to me. I like a light pop makes it much easier for my to level kick flips in any stance. Plus a nice pinch point for mannys, nose and tail slides.
I don't know if its this spacing your talking about, or the carbon, or even the kick angle, but I got a flight deck finally and that thing has pop FOR DAYS. Don't know if you've had the chance yet, but I'd really like to see what you have to say about the Bones Formula X, I found the Dragons to be just a *little* too sticky but the Formula X's are absolutely great. Would be nice to have a video to reference for other opinions when homies ask at the park.
I'm on an 8.25 Palace right now and it's the stiffest board I've ever skated despite the concave being on the mellower side. It feels slightly thicker than other boards too so it feels "big" for an 8.25. I think an 8.0 Dwindle would feel amazing with those qualities.
Thats because its a DSM board and uses epoxy instead of glue. It's the main reason chinese made boards tend to feel a lot stiffer and heavier than boards pressed in NA or Europe (HLC in spain does offer epoxy as an option I dont think that many people use it). I thought the same thing about them being thicker but according to my digital calipers they're about the same most of the time and when they're over its a fraction of a mm, so I think its mostly just down to the feel.
@@loveandnapalm Right on! Thanks for the info on this. I knew it wasn't just in my head. Definitely feels heavy and stiff. Skates really well despite the heftiness though. I think it'll be better if it softens up a bit.
Remember that 8.25 PS stix plan B sheffey deck you skated? The yellow one with the short tail that was only like 31.3 overall? That's the shape that made me realize how important FOF is. Even with the short tail some of my tricks instantly clicked. I dont know if it was a different mold or I just got one of the bottom of the stack but I havent found another one that felt quite the same yet. I've been skating the strangelove 8.25 x "31.75" (a little under 31.5 tip to tip) shape and its close but a little steeper in the tail.
i love dsm boards, and i think they are often overlooked/underrated. granted there is a pretty wide variance of shapes among brands they make boards for, but they are consistently good quality.
Second comment 😅 I'd been running Almost decks, *almost* exclusively for close to 20 years now, whenever it was that Almost Round 3 came out. I really like their shapes, both the twin tail and the regular long nose, and also really like that I can get steep and mellow concaves depending on how my feet are feeling that season. That said, as I mentioned in my other comment, I went to a flight deck ... and I'm not likely to ever go back. I do miss the familiarity of the Almost decks (ran 7.75 up until August this year), but the durability and pop out of the flight decks is kind of insane 😅
I just picked up a Globe deck and the tail is way steeper than I'm used to. I skated some Almost decks years ago, I might have to look into them again.
I have a weird board that has zero fingers of flat on both front and back and steep kicks. Flip Lancer Mountain deck. I'm used to having a pocket to put my feet in. That deck doesn't have that. I'm used to skating Powell Popsicle shaped decks, which are pretty mellow concave as well as kicks. I think they normally have 2 to 3 fingers of flat. Oddly, the board I feel I can ollie best on is a Powell JM Duran deck that has a 17" wheelbase. I think the long wheelbase is amplifying in the weight of the front truck or something. I'm riding Indy 159 hollow forgeds on that deck.
I had a thank you Daewon board about a year ago, it was exactly like this just as you've described. What made me give it away was front side flips were almost impossible with it.
I noticed this right away going from riding my Deathwish board and then jumping on my Santa Cruz....the Cruz has a bit of a longer tail and I was barely getting the nose off the ground because my back foot was naturally not sitting far enough back...I checked and the wheelbase was longer and the tail was longer on this particular Santa Cruz board....so measurements do make a difference.
I started skating in 84 age 10 and my most favourite deck shape and style was the deathbox u boat concave boards. Early 90s UK company. They were like u had glue on Ur shoes that wasn't shoe goo. Great boards.
Deathbox did a really weird tail concave/winged/tri bend type thing for a bit. Not sure they stuck with that for long (Iirc some of their team riders were filling in the creases with layers of grip tape to mellow it out). Vaguely recall them having a really deep concave at some point.
@@seanmorris yeh I remeber them experimenting before settling with u boat concave 👍 I had the rocker and Alex moul models. Loved them and if I couldn't get them I'd go for an h street usually a Hensley. Happy days 🔥
right now, the tail on my board's kick gap is so short and steep that you can see my baseplate isn't fully bolted on flat, the back of it looks like its on the edge of a cliff. while my nose actually has close to 3 fingers of flat
I found this out skating a welcome shaped deck. I like 14.25 wheel base but this shaped deck has 15" and it felt oddly light on the back foot which I couldn't figure out but I noticed that it has atleast 3 fingers of flat on the tail.
I really appreciate this video for how technical you explain things, I think I quit skating backin the day after a few incidents of lumbar strain injury (where I tore a muscle in my back after landing). I've been thinking about buying a new board and I want it to be perfect this time! I have an old waterlogged baker with independents and sometimes I step on it for a few minutes, and I still have my basic kickflips and stuff and it's a little bit flat and I like it. I can flick the board without messing up the top of my shoe. I'm 5'8 and a little heavier in my upper body, I'll probably get a wider board and do some warm-ups and excercise in the future before riding. I've been doing handstands because I had surgery on my back for a lipoma due to a metal alice pack, but I might also try doing my abdominals and squats. Some people are just very light naturally for their height, but I'm not unfortunately. But that hasn't stopped anybody who wants it! I'll never be pro at my age, but I can skate and have a 100% fun by myself.
That’s interesting do you do any exercises for your back? Lower back can get very sticky, if you have short hamstrings/ QL, e.t.c but doing some light exercise can definitely help with that !
I stretch and warmup to skate in general and recommend a firm mattress, but my focus used to be mostly in the headstand/tucked planche with arms tucked too, face almost touching the floor. Instead of squats with weigh benefiting my core, this is what I did. used to do it for hours upon hours... this muscle is the erector spinae. It helped me a lot when my back was a disaster nightmare. It got the swelling down after surgery and all that, because I was forcing it to build mass and not just resting. I'm all messed up and trampled nowadays suddenly, but it was fun I guess. Now I wanna skate, but I have also gained 30lbs. I should be 140, but I'm not stressed about it. I also do a couple squats and hold various positions with my knee slightly hinged (over toes) to activate the muscle groups in my leg because my knees feel sore always since I might have skated too hard (was stupid). Been skating again since october. Ordered a complete in late september '23@@RocketRacoon717
Honestly most skater I know don’t care a board is a board just skate it 🤷🏾♂️ thinking like this will have you in your head a lot. Love you videos Ben don’t get me wrong your info is very useful for the ppl out there that freak out about there boards.
Hey Ben I saw your nyjah deck video and you said you liked it in a sense and I feel like you would like April skateboards I was wondering if you have riden one yet.
thx for all your in detail math and explanations. I feel like it helped me a lot finding a setup to come back after more than 15 years off skateboarding. never thought on stuff like that back then around the 2000s :) at the age of 40 I´m a bit tired of adapting to a new shape every time I change my deck. I don´t want to waste my limited time either. After 2 or 3 "trys" I ended up with an 8.25 /14.25 twin tail. The few I tried so far all felt kind of mellow. Ok, but could be better. Maybe someone got a recommandation for twin tails with a concave at the steeper end? Anyways, thx again for you great work, Ben. Keep it up. Greetz from germany
Fingers of flat feels so good, I don't ride low trucks and small wheels though. I'm tall and too little flat makes boards feel cramped. I got a Girl Couch deck with 13 7/8" wheelbase and about a mile of flat at the tail and it feels nice and roomy to pop.
Really looking forward to your mellow concave steep kicks Blind review. All my last decks were Enjoi(-Dwindle) steep kicks and after some madness with trucks, what I figured out was that if deck is 8.5-ish it really needs trucks more invards to have more leverage (like Ace Classics) and when it's 8 inch deck it works the best with trucks that make wb bigger, like Thunder-Venture.
Steep/Full Dwindle boards are where its at. Venture lows for the extended wheel base. Nice and snappy. I've been snatching up every 7.75" dwindle deck I can find because I'm afraid the days are numbered.
I skate 8.75s and it's harder to find what I like locally(plus my local skate shop is pretty lame), so I shop online, hard to notice stuff like this online. I mostly stick to brands I know I like(anti hero, krooked, and the other deluxe decks). I just got my first ever uma land sled shaped deck(8.7) and am actually loving it. I do branch out to something new sometimes but it doesn't always work out. Edit: That does look like a nice shape. I wanted to try hockey/whatever that squared/blunt brand was but they only go to 8.5s. Many companies stop at 8.5 or 8.62, I would have loved to support Shane O'neills or Daewons brands but none of those make my size, Almost doesn't either. Tried going down but couldn't, hard to go back down in size once you go up.
@@joe.nail1 The uma 8.7 is really good. Been really enjoying it. Haven't skated in a few weeks but I am loving it. I have noticed it razors really quickly though. I've only skated 2 or 3 sessions and the tail and nose look like I've skated a lot more than that. Hoping that's not a consistent issue with their boards; It's been a long time since I've had razer tail, but may happen if that's a trait of the umas.
Hi Ben, I´m sure you are aware of this because you mentioned that you are oversimplifying the explanation, however I would like to add the following. "The fingers of flat" can be a great indicator of how a board will perform but it´s not necessarily an actual factor for leverage. The main factors are the length and height of the nose and tail + the weight distribution within the board. Because most skateboard molds are symmetrically made with a radial like nose and tail curvature, board manufacturers change their height of the nose / tail by shifting the center of the wheelbase towards on one or the other other end. (usually towards the nose.) When you shift the center of the wheelbase towards the nose, it creates a shorter space till the start of the curvature. This results in the change of the degree and height of the nose / tail, and even gets amplified because the curvature is usually non linearly increasing and because the nose is longer in itself. In contrast to that you could start the development of your skateboard with a target leverage point (meaning height and length) and work your way towards it by choosing the angle, curvature and flat part by your taste. That means that it would be possible to create two totally different boards with the same leverage where one has 1 finger of flat and the second one has 4 fingers of flat, as long as both are the same length (measured from above without including curvature) and the same height. (height at the end tip of nose / tail). Of course these boards would feel different because the angle would need to be drastically changed, but when it comes to timing and leverage - they would be identical. However this is only one part of the equation because the counterpart of that is the weight and even more importantly it´s distribution within the board. By changing the weight dirstribution in the deck itself, which we are doing in our upcoming board the Vanguard, you open up a new dimension of possibilities. But that´s a longer topic. - Peter
After a couple years of watching this channel, Ben finally reviewed a deck that I have. Mine's an 8.5 and I think it has a longer wheelbase. I like the more blunt shape of it, but the nose is so long and steep it makes nollies hard to pop.
Ben, random questions that maybe you've mentioned before: what are the dimensions of your tennis court (along the fences)? Seems like the perfect size to fit in everything you'd ever want to skate. Cheers from Ensenada, México!
Could you do a beginner guide for adults? I never managed to learn how to do it when younger, but it's something I want to learn. Not the tricks part, just basic riding on the street (getting over kerbs , pavement etc).
I have to say, in over 20 years of skating I'm not sure I've ever seen a board with such a pronounced visual difference between the nose and tail. Best possible board for this video, so good!
I have an enjoi with similar dimensions. I notice I like the steeper and longer kicks for switch. Riding switch I am heavier on my movements and having less practice.
Apparently I’ve skated the nose as the tail and vice versa for years without knowing that that’s actually backwards so the whole discussion about less flat giving less pop is interesting to me, to be honest I’m not sure I can appreciate the difference because I’m so used to skating the bigger end as tail and smaller side nose but it is interesting for sure. So is my natural skating at some sort of pop disadvantage while switch is “easier”? This also raises questions about why we didn’t have twin tails all along to give regular and switch the “same” pop?
Love these types of videos from you Ben! Just a thought when you mentioned shifting the holes back on the tail, there’s a tool/guide for that by chem skate you could try out to drill extra holes back. I know you said you’re done with the madness tho haha
Don't mean to be rude but when it comes to how quick the pop is, the fingers of flat is not what matters but rather all of the following: 1. how long the nose/tail is starting from the wheelbase 2. how high the tip of the nose/tail is compared to the flat part of your board 3. how high your trucks are 4. how big your wheels are. What you say about the feebles/smiths and nose/tailsildes is on point though.
@@JoshuaJeffersFL unfortunately not if the tail is shorter or steeper. But yeah of course if you have everything else identical, then yes you are correct. My point is you can't take two different shapes and based on how many fingers of flat there is say one has quicker pop than the other.
Plug in those variables and you find the pop angle, fingers of flat affects how it feels to get the board to that angle. More fingers of flat, more leverage, lighter feel. Less fingers of flat, less leverage, heavier pop feel.
@@johanneskrv right. I thought his point was that more fingers of flat = less pop? That would be true for any given deck, correct? Now, comparing one deck to another, I totally agree with you that other variables have to be considered.
Hmm but why did you say you couldn't pop your tricks but then found were able to pop over the rail, isn't pop the energy from your snap, where if you snap harder you pop higher?
I never understood why asymmetrical decks have remained the norm. I ride Ishod's deck and the freedom to not worry about what side you're popping off of is such a relief, especially when flipping around.
I completely get what you mean, but what held me back is the way Dwindle decks keep their shape. And I don't think Dwindle has a twin-tip board? Often even when there are twin tips, they are the tail ones. I'd really like to have a twin-nose. So of course text thing that pops to my mind is Neen Williams twin-noses, which ...unfortunately have always quarter inch longer wb of what I like, and their graphics don't call me much either. I think there is a gap in the market.
This is a great insight to be aware of but I just try to get a good deal on any flight deck I can grab from 8.75 to just about anything and I just take time to adapt to the shape. Love me the flight decks, they last me about a year.
Just gotta say I really appreciate all the solid info you’ve put out throughout the years so we can make informed decisions about our setup and not just falling victim to marketing and hype.
Unfortunately… I heard dwindle is… dwindling. They fired bill Weiss owner of madness, team manager and brand manager for blind. Enjoi is done. It’s owned by an investment company. And they are doing what a lot of corporations do. It doesn’t work in skateboarding tho
@Rhyan Sledge me too. Tilt mode man down was my first video. And Louie has been my favorite skater ever since. Bag of suck. Legendary
dwindle been dwindled
Pretty sure nhs(maybe just Indy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) also got bought by some huge corporation. Getting harder to support skater owned, but not impossible…
Dwindle has been trash for quite a while. WHile they innovated in the epoxy, their wood has been garbage for a while and that sucks for me, someone who was a World Industries Mega-Fan from the beginning in the late 80s and early 90s.
@@tpderp5038 its not only skater owned, but skater run that is key. Death Skateboards is both, owned & run by Nick Zorlac, uses wood from Woodchuck Laminates, which is both, run & owned by Max DuFour. Film Trucks is both, owned and run by Jeremie Daclin. Snot Wheels is both, run and owned by FOS, owner of Heroin Skateboards. Zealous Downhill Equipment, who make innovative bearings is both, run and owned by Bryce Brady. Other skater owned and run companies include Corey Littlejohn's Lil Jawns Rails, The Miller Family's Riptide Sports and Dave Defiant's Defiant Upgrades. And who can forget Mike Vallely's Street Plant?
In all my years of skating I've never fingered one of my boards. Will have to try now, thank you Mr. Degros 😄💕👍
Ben, I implore you to look into what’s happening with dwindle and to _not_ buy their products.
I'll be real with you , I had this problem for the first 10 years of skating where sometimes I'd get a new board and randomly I'd be ghost popping every trick I tried and it was making me feel crazy like I was skating wrong . Wish I would have known these things in my younger days but on a positive note at least kids have access to this kind of knowledge today . Thanks Ben , and also to Paul Schmitt 🤙👊
Early 90's, with the change from 80's boards to roughly the "modern" popsicle shape, I found I could not ollie with the "new" boards with fingers of flat. I went from easily jumping over anything to being unable to jump over a beer can. From kickfliping up a set of three or four stairs to being unable to ollie up a curb. The board was glued to the floor, the tail did not snap. It drove me nuts.
My solution was buying old 80's boards and using a "popsicle" as a model to reshape them using the nose as tail(mellower) and the tail as a nose(steeper). Late 90's early 2k's were hard for me, flat skinny boards, bearing condoms wheels, etc.
Some time ago I watched a video when Mr. Degros explained the "technique" to skate boards with fingers of flat.
Even with the “technique” it doesn’t mean it feels right or natural. I don’t like boards like that either.
@@bendegros its funny because this is my ideal skateboard among other reasons (lets not get into the mad mad world of pressure/old school tricks) that love that extra fingers of flat.
did you stop using risers in the 90s? im kind of the same way . i never really got into popsicles and tiny wheels.
@@chrhadden I went from about half inch risers and half inch baseplates(Gullwing street shadow) to a quarter of an inch total (shock risers and Indy baseplates). I got used to having a nose quite fast, flips up to anything, noseslides and "nosepick grinds" were my thing for a while.
Later on couldn't get used to flat skinny boards with fingers of flat and the non existing wheels were a joke to me.
@@azazelreficulmefistofelicu7158 maybe i should try the risers again and see what happens. i stuck to them for a reason back then im sure
this channel is so good for skateboarding as a whole. i dont know how we went so long without thinking of these sorts of things
awesome review... love the detail and intricacy...you can always just drill new holes in the back truck area. i did that on a blank that i have had for like 17 yrs, lol.... one thing i find really confident inspiring is when the front bolts have less flat to the nose... your foot just sits perfect and you don't have to worry about pushing to hard because it wont make the back come up... man that just feels so good in bowls. tks.
Much love and respect to you and your channel Ben.
Ben glad to see you still doing your thing that’s how we stay young! Much love from Bay Area!
This is good stuff. I've been skating in some capacity for more than 10 years and this is the first time I've ever heard about this. Most people only mention about length and width when talking geometry.
That board looks incredible, it’s funny you mention the 90’s because it does look very much like a setup from that time 🤙
about a month ago I switched from 14.5 wheel base to 14.25 and same thing, shorter board and same width but 100% accurate video. Everything you said makes sense now. Thank you for that
also same experience with no having pop, I thought I was losing it but somehow better at ollie into my manuals. BRAVO BRAVO great vid
You videos are very interesting. Been skating since 96' and you bring up a lot of shit I never really thought of.
great video, I have recently switched to almost decks because of the shapes. I love the 2 to 3 fingers of flat, the mellow concave, single deck press, and overall attention to detail. Almost decks from now on for me.
Excellent topic. I am gonna try to change an old board up to see how it feels popping it .
100%. This is why I still shop in skate shops as opposed to buying boards online. Well one of the reasons. I favour BBS boards for this too. Always at least 2.5 in the tail, around 2 in the nose.
That was a very nice explanation of the geometry and effects on skating 🙏
Sad to see Almost probably on the way out, really thoughtful shapes and (mostly) classy art..Glad I got one of their decks recently. I have two setups, an FA and an Almost and they are very different, but I enjoy them both equally.
Ben I enjoy your videos and your compensation for boards and trucks that meet your needs I'm a flat ground phenom
But I suck at manuals and ledges cause I always ignore them keep improving skating
Nice Menu Skate Shop hoodie!! Love the place dearly.
For me I think 35 degrees is most favourable angle for the pop to start. In general I like both of the tips to be similar steepness so I could skate flat without thinking which is the nose and tail, it doesn't need to be a twin tip at all.
Nope, my new favourite degree is around 34. Or it's just my brain thats been messed too much by the environment. Sometimes skateparks just don't feel as good as some random spots.
This video was amazing such good work skating in between your topics great work much appreciated and your the best for the skate board community
I hope that all is well for everyone here and I hope that you all have a great day today.
Bro ! Ive followed you for a couple years on your Vancouver carpenter channel. Just stumbled on your skate content !
my first non kmart board was an almost (way past them being cool, only like 4 years ago lol) and i loved the mellow concave feel. I kinda dig the visual of how quick you have to catch your flatground tricks, you obvs have the chops for that, but i can understand that it might not feel super great, but interesting how it seems to lend itself to a transition/ledge kinda setup. Love your wisdom & analysis as always Ben
Could you re-drill the tail truck back 1/4 inch to test your theory? Or do you think other variables like the kick angle or shape of the concave would be make this a bad match? Love the channel brother. Old head here, 90’s crew represent. ❤
I was about to say the same thing
Would that not put the holes too close together to avoid excessive weakness?
@@vancouverbill it’s not too big a deal. Back in the day boards would sometimes come double drilled, I’ve also drilled back boards to make bigger noses when it was tough to get a board with a big enough nose.
So no joke dude. I just noticed wtf. THAT answered and saved much time as a scientist for myself thanks man! Lol🤙🤘
I always wondered why they would mess with their shapes but I never actually put two and two together like Ben did here; excellent work.
Love you DIY channel Ben!
Great video. That was a fun session, forgot about that.
glad to see you back Ben 🖤🖤
I love dwindle shapes, to fix the pop situation I found I get more pop when I ride them with Indy’s. Gives the tail a bit more angle and time to pop.
haha ok man, opened this video and I'm like he looks sooo familiar... that's because I've watched tons of your home improvement videos! And you skate! That's too good!
Limosine boards have been killing it for me, they are bareback but the shape feels better than any other bareback boards I’ve had. They definitely have that blunt but still popsicle nose
I am currently in love with my 8.25 Hugo boserup limo board
Interesting. It makes sense that the angle and length of the tail and nose affects the way a board feels and reacts while doing tricks. I have an unused old Nanda Zipp board afriend gave me from Sonic (he was doing the artwork for their boards back then), made in either '97 or '98. It's 7 1/2" wide and it has a blunt nose. However, the tail and nose are a bit on the mellow side, a little more scooped than that Almost board you have. My current set up is an old Salman Agah deck from '93 or '94 with Thunder trucks from roughly the same year (can't remember which ones) that I've been using. New wheels and bearings of course. It's my old deck from the early/mid 90s. Boards during most of the 90s were 7 1/2" wide. Just recently got back into skating and figured I'd start with what I've got. Anyway, happy riding! Love your videos, Ben!
Hey Ben, thanks for yet another informative video! I've been riding CCS Custom decks because I like to put stupid images on my boards, but I know very little about the decks other than width, wheelbase, and length - I'd be curious to see your take on how those perform
I really like those boards
So stoked for a new vid ,Thanks for another amazing vid Ben , Much Love 🇿🇦🤘🏻❤️🛹
Hell yeah that was So Good 🙂🫠
Was that marble countertop salvage also a great product would be called the "true blank" and i could have a grid printed or better engraved on the top that you could use as a guide to drill your own holes for a personal custom setup.
You're the best, Ben.
I'm short at 5'3 and my weight ranges between 160-190lbs depending on time of year. My short legs need a little help. Right now I have a girl G027 has 3 fingers of flat nose and tail. Nose is 6.75" long and the tail is slightly longer at 6.8" I have ace af1 and 54mm wheels speedlab sidecut. Feels good to me. I like a light pop makes it much easier for my to level kick flips in any stance. Plus a nice pinch point for mannys, nose and tail slides.
I don't know if its this spacing your talking about, or the carbon, or even the kick angle, but I got a flight deck finally and that thing has pop FOR DAYS.
Don't know if you've had the chance yet, but I'd really like to see what you have to say about the Bones Formula X, I found the Dragons to be just a *little* too sticky but the Formula X's are absolutely great. Would be nice to have a video to reference for other opinions when homies ask at the park.
I just clicked on this video and you looked so familiar. Then it clicked, you helped improved my drywall mudding technique
I'm on an 8.25 Palace right now and it's the stiffest board I've ever skated despite the concave being on the mellower side. It feels slightly thicker than other boards too so it feels "big" for an 8.25. I think an 8.0 Dwindle would feel amazing with those qualities.
Thats because its a DSM board and uses epoxy instead of glue. It's the main reason chinese made boards tend to feel a lot stiffer and heavier than boards pressed in NA or Europe (HLC in spain does offer epoxy as an option I dont think that many people use it). I thought the same thing about them being thicker but according to my digital calipers they're about the same most of the time and when they're over its a fraction of a mm, so I think its mostly just down to the feel.
@@loveandnapalm Right on! Thanks for the info on this. I knew it wasn't just in my head. Definitely feels heavy and stiff. Skates really well despite the heftiness though. I think it'll be better if it softens up a bit.
you know that when ben posts I'm liking the video at 0:01. Keep it up!!!
Remember that 8.25 PS stix plan B sheffey deck you skated? The yellow one with the short tail that was only like 31.3 overall? That's the shape that made me realize how important FOF is. Even with the short tail some of my tricks instantly clicked. I dont know if it was a different mold or I just got one of the bottom of the stack but I havent found another one that felt quite the same yet. I've been skating the strangelove 8.25 x "31.75" (a little under 31.5 tip to tip) shape and its close but a little steeper in the tail.
i love dsm boards, and i think they are often overlooked/underrated. granted there is a pretty wide variance of shapes among brands they make boards for, but they are consistently good quality.
Second comment 😅 I'd been running Almost decks, *almost* exclusively for close to 20 years now, whenever it was that Almost Round 3 came out. I really like their shapes, both the twin tail and the regular long nose, and also really like that I can get steep and mellow concaves depending on how my feet are feeling that season. That said, as I mentioned in my other comment, I went to a flight deck ... and I'm not likely to ever go back. I do miss the familiarity of the Almost decks (ran 7.75 up until August this year), but the durability and pop out of the flight decks is kind of insane 😅
I gave this video a thumbs up, even though I watched only 2 minutes of this video, because my head exploded. 🤯
I think the low trucks are better for slappy's, gives you more lift on that wheel hitting the curb.
hands down the most informativ skate channel
Great info Ben! Always dope videos!
I just picked up a Globe deck and the tail is way steeper than I'm used to. I skated some Almost decks years ago, I might have to look into them again.
Thats a mellow setup. Paul Schmitt mentioned on the nine club that most pro's ride between 34-36, angle of pop.
I have a weird board that has zero fingers of flat on both front and back and steep kicks. Flip Lancer Mountain deck. I'm used to having a pocket to put my feet in. That deck doesn't have that. I'm used to skating Powell Popsicle shaped decks, which are pretty mellow concave as well as kicks. I think they normally have 2 to 3 fingers of flat. Oddly, the board I feel I can ollie best on is a Powell JM Duran deck that has a 17" wheelbase. I think the long wheelbase is amplifying in the weight of the front truck or something. I'm riding Indy 159 hollow forgeds on that deck.
I had a thank you Daewon board about a year ago, it was exactly like this just as you've described. What made me give it away was front side flips were almost impossible with it.
I think thunders would work well with that board. It would widen the wheelbase, and make the pop steeper.
Please do a tutorial on how to fs heel PLEASE !! Most beautiful I ever seen
I noticed this right away going from riding my Deathwish board and then jumping on my Santa Cruz....the Cruz has a bit of a longer tail and I was barely getting the nose off the ground because my back foot was naturally not sitting far enough back...I checked and the wheelbase was longer and the tail was longer on this particular Santa Cruz board....so measurements do make a difference.
I started skating in 84 age 10 and my most favourite deck shape and style was the deathbox u boat concave boards. Early 90s UK company. They were like u had glue on Ur shoes that wasn't shoe goo. Great boards.
Deathbox did a really weird tail concave/winged/tri bend type thing for a bit. Not sure they stuck with that for long (Iirc some of their team riders were filling in the creases with layers of grip tape to mellow it out). Vaguely recall them having a really deep concave at some point.
@@seanmorris yeh I remeber them experimenting before settling with u boat concave 👍 I had the rocker and Alex moul models. Loved them and if I couldn't get them I'd go for an h street usually a Hensley. Happy days 🔥
right now, the tail on my board's kick gap is so short and steep that you can see my baseplate isn't fully bolted on flat, the back of it looks like its on the edge of a cliff.
while my nose actually has close to 3 fingers of flat
I found this out skating a welcome shaped deck. I like 14.25 wheel base but this shaped deck has 15" and it felt oddly light on the back foot which I couldn't figure out but I noticed that it has atleast 3 fingers of flat on the tail.
I really appreciate this video for how technical you explain things, I think I quit skating backin the day after a few incidents of lumbar strain injury (where I tore a muscle in my back after landing). I've been thinking about buying a new board and I want it to be perfect this time! I have an old waterlogged baker with independents and sometimes I step on it for a few minutes, and I still have my basic kickflips and stuff and it's a little bit flat and I like it. I can flick the board without messing up the top of my shoe. I'm 5'8 and a little heavier in my upper body, I'll probably get a wider board and do some warm-ups and excercise in the future before riding. I've been doing handstands because I had surgery on my back for a lipoma due to a metal alice pack, but I might also try doing my abdominals and squats. Some people are just very light naturally for their height, but I'm not unfortunately. But that hasn't stopped anybody who wants it! I'll never be pro at my age, but I can skate and have a 100% fun by myself.
That’s interesting do you do any exercises for your back? Lower back can get very sticky, if you have short hamstrings/ QL, e.t.c but doing some light exercise can definitely help with that !
I stretch and warmup to skate in general and recommend a firm mattress, but my focus used to be mostly in the headstand/tucked planche with arms tucked too, face almost touching the floor. Instead of squats with weigh benefiting my core, this is what I did. used to do it for hours upon hours... this muscle is the erector spinae. It helped me a lot when my back was a disaster nightmare. It got the swelling down after surgery and all that, because I was forcing it to build mass and not just resting. I'm all messed up and trampled nowadays suddenly, but it was fun I guess. Now I wanna skate, but I have also gained 30lbs. I should be 140, but I'm not stressed about it. I also do a couple squats and hold various positions with my knee slightly hinged (over toes) to activate the muscle groups in my leg because my knees feel sore always since I might have skated too hard (was stupid). Been skating again since october. Ordered a complete in late september '23@@RocketRacoon717
Merci j'ai appris un tas de chose technique sur ma planche à roulette.
This is the exact deck I am riding at the minute. I love almost decks the shape of them is just perfect I think.
Monarch project boards are real good … stiff strong boards ..that resin 7
I was just on their IG yesterday I think they shut down or on the way out. No post since January and I saw one of the riders riding blanks
Honestly most skater I know don’t care a board is a board just skate it 🤷🏾♂️ thinking like this will have you in your head a lot. Love you videos Ben don’t get me wrong your info is very useful for the ppl out there that freak out about there boards.
Hey Ben I saw your nyjah deck video and you said you liked it in a sense and I feel like you would like April skateboards I was wondering if you have riden one yet.
thx for all your in detail math and explanations. I feel like it helped me a lot finding a setup to come back after more than 15 years off skateboarding. never thought on stuff like that back then around the 2000s :) at the age of 40 I´m a bit tired of adapting to a new shape every time I change my deck. I don´t want to waste my limited time either. After 2 or 3 "trys" I ended up with an 8.25 /14.25 twin tail. The few I tried so far all felt kind of mellow. Ok, but could be better. Maybe someone got a recommandation for twin tails with a concave at the steeper end?
Anyways, thx again for you great work, Ben. Keep it up. Greetz from germany
Try a Deathwish twin nose instead of a twin tail.
I've noticed that same thing when I ride low trucks ( popping high without something to pop over).
Wasn't this already in your last video with Professor Schmitt?
Fingers of flat feels so good, I don't ride low trucks and small wheels though. I'm tall and too little flat makes boards feel cramped. I got a Girl Couch deck with 13 7/8" wheelbase and about a mile of flat at the tail and it feels nice and roomy to pop.
Really looking forward to your mellow concave steep kicks Blind review. All my last decks were Enjoi(-Dwindle) steep kicks and after some madness with trucks, what I figured out was that if deck is 8.5-ish it really needs trucks more invards to have more leverage (like Ace Classics) and when it's 8 inch deck it works the best with trucks that make wb bigger, like Thunder-Venture.
Steep/Full Dwindle boards are where its at. Venture lows for the extended wheel base. Nice and snappy. I've been snatching up every 7.75" dwindle deck I can find because I'm afraid the days are numbered.
I’ve been riding that same board for the last couple of months and I love it! Feels much more stable than my other setups
Which almost is it?
@@mandoneutron4771 just a black almost deck with a red logo
I skate 8.75s and it's harder to find what I like locally(plus my local skate shop is pretty lame), so I shop online, hard to notice stuff like this online. I mostly stick to brands I know I like(anti hero, krooked, and the other deluxe decks). I just got my first ever uma land sled shaped deck(8.7) and am actually loving it. I do branch out to something new sometimes but it doesn't always work out.
Edit: That does look like a nice shape. I wanted to try hockey/whatever that squared/blunt brand was but they only go to 8.5s.
Many companies stop at 8.5 or 8.62, I would have loved to support Shane O'neills or Daewons brands but none of those make my size, Almost doesn't either. Tried going down but couldn't, hard to go back down in size once you go up.
This is hella relatable (including my local being lame for selection). Hockey makes bigger sizes. I’m on a 9.0 Hockey rn.
@@HOLES69 Good to know. I guess I was thinking of FA. I'll have to try out a hockey in the future then. Thanks.
The UMA maite 8.7 deck is such a nice shape, I’ve skated 2 myself. Love the nose on it
@@joe.nail1 The uma 8.7 is really good. Been really enjoying it. Haven't skated in a few weeks but I am loving it. I have noticed it razors really quickly though. I've only skated 2 or 3 sessions and the tail and nose look like I've skated a lot more than that. Hoping that's not a consistent issue with their boards; It's been a long time since I've had razer tail, but may happen if that's a trait of the umas.
This video is like a Ben Degros and Vancouver Carpenter collab.
Hi Ben, I´m sure you are aware of this because you mentioned that you are oversimplifying the explanation, however I would like to add the following.
"The fingers of flat" can be a great indicator of how a board will perform but it´s not necessarily an actual factor for leverage. The main factors are the length and height of the nose and tail + the weight distribution within the board. Because most skateboard molds are symmetrically made with a radial like nose and tail curvature, board manufacturers change their height of the nose / tail by shifting the center of the wheelbase towards on one or the other other end. (usually towards the nose.) When you shift the center of the wheelbase towards the nose, it creates a shorter space till the start of the curvature. This results in the change of the degree and height of the nose / tail, and even gets amplified because the curvature is usually non linearly increasing and because the nose is longer in itself.
In contrast to that you could start the development of your skateboard with a target leverage point (meaning height and length) and work your way towards it by choosing the angle, curvature and flat part by your taste. That means that it would be possible to create two totally different boards with the same leverage where one has 1 finger of flat and the second one has 4 fingers of flat, as long as both are the same length (measured from above without including curvature) and the same height. (height at the end tip of nose / tail). Of course these boards would feel different because the angle would need to be drastically changed, but when it comes to timing and leverage - they would be identical.
However this is only one part of the equation because the counterpart of that is the weight and even more importantly it´s distribution within the board. By changing the weight dirstribution in the deck itself, which we are doing in our upcoming board the Vanguard, you open up a new dimension of possibilities. But that´s a longer topic.
- Peter
After a couple years of watching this channel, Ben finally reviewed a deck that I have. Mine's an 8.5 and I think it has a longer wheelbase. I like the more blunt shape of it, but the nose is so long and steep it makes nollies hard to pop.
Ben, random questions that maybe you've mentioned before: what are the dimensions of your tennis court (along the fences)? Seems like the perfect size to fit in everything you'd ever want to skate. Cheers from Ensenada, México!
Could you do a beginner guide for adults? I never managed to learn how to do it when younger, but it's something I want to learn. Not the tricks part, just basic riding on the street (getting over kerbs , pavement etc).
Just learn Ollie only trick you need really
I have to say, in over 20 years of skating I'm not sure I've ever seen a board with such a pronounced visual difference between the nose and tail. Best possible board for this video, so good!
I have an enjoi with similar dimensions. I notice I like the steeper and longer kicks for switch. Riding switch I am heavier on my movements and having less practice.
a new Ben video on my day off = perfect inspo to go sesh later
Apparently I’ve skated the nose as the tail and vice versa for years without knowing that that’s actually backwards so the whole discussion about less flat giving less pop is interesting to me, to be honest I’m not sure I can appreciate the difference because I’m so used to skating the bigger end as tail and smaller side nose but it is interesting for sure. So is my natural skating at some sort of pop disadvantage while switch is “easier”? This also raises questions about why we didn’t have twin tails all along to give regular and switch the “same” pop?
Love these types of videos from you Ben! Just a thought when you mentioned shifting the holes back on the tail, there’s a tool/guide for that by chem skate you could try out to drill extra holes back. I know you said you’re done with the madness tho haha
Don't mean to be rude but when it comes to how quick the pop is, the fingers of flat is not what matters but rather all of the following: 1. how long the nose/tail is starting from the wheelbase 2. how high the tip of the nose/tail is compared to the flat part of your board 3. how high your trucks are 4. how big your wheels are.
What you say about the feebles/smiths and nose/tailsildes is on point though.
More fingers of flat would make the tail hit sooner, no? So less pop.
@@JoshuaJeffersFL unfortunately not if the tail is shorter or steeper. But yeah of course if you have everything else identical, then yes you are correct. My point is you can't take two different shapes and based on how many fingers of flat there is say one has quicker pop than the other.
Plug in those variables and you find the pop angle, fingers of flat affects how it feels to get the board to that angle. More fingers of flat, more leverage, lighter feel. Less fingers of flat, less leverage, heavier pop feel.
@@johanneskrv right. I thought his point was that more fingers of flat = less pop? That would be true for any given deck, correct? Now, comparing one deck to another, I totally agree with you that other variables have to be considered.
Daddy's Switch frontside 180 heelflips & Switch backside tails slides Wooooo.
Hmm but why did you say you couldn't pop your tricks but then found were able to pop over the rail, isn't pop the energy from your snap, where if you snap harder you pop higher?
Currently trying an 8" real deck and I'm not amazed with the pop. this video helped explain why
I think you’ll love DGK and Thank you decks
Just got a new board today, and had the same problems with the pop. Was about to throw it away but then you posted this video 😂
I really like the almost impact decks, I can skate those without my knees hurting after every trick.
Good review
I never understood why asymmetrical decks have remained the norm. I ride Ishod's deck and the freedom to not worry about what side you're popping off of is such a relief, especially when flipping around.
A lot of people ride one truck looser, though, so it'd still feel backward at times. Definitely wouldn't work for me
I completely get what you mean, but what held me back is the way Dwindle decks keep their shape. And I don't think Dwindle has a twin-tip board? Often even when there are twin tips, they are the tail ones. I'd really like to have a twin-nose. So of course text thing that pops to my mind is Neen Williams twin-noses, which ...unfortunately have always quarter inch longer wb of what I like, and their graphics don't call me much either. I think there is a gap in the market.
This is a great insight to be aware of but I just try to get a good deal on any flight deck I can grab from 8.75 to just about anything and I just take time to adapt to the shape. Love me the flight decks, they last me about a year.
Hey ben i think it be really awesome if you did another Fa board review, i notice they are all each kinda different
The fact we’re only learning in the 2020’s, how to dial in a skateboard setup is wild.
Thanks pops! Woo!