A REVERB THAT CAN LISTEN?! || iZotope Neoverb

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  • Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024

Комментарии • 333

  • @Producelikeapro
    @Producelikeapro 4 года назад +260

    Great video! Like you I really liked the simplicity of the plug in and how quickly it sounds great and actually useable. By the way congratulations on your EMT and having enough room for it!! Always great videos!!

    • @imnotjacob.
      @imnotjacob. 4 года назад +8

      The man himself! I've got your video on this reverb queued up too. I love what I'm hearing so far.

    • @Producelikeapro
      @Producelikeapro 4 года назад +11

      wafertheen haha indeed! Hope you’re marvellous!!

    • @Producelikeapro
      @Producelikeapro 4 года назад +16

      Jacob that’s marvellous to hear! I’m a huge fan of Wytse, I’ve been following him for ages now!

    • @austinsummersofficial631
      @austinsummersofficial631 4 года назад +4

      Seriously cool you commented on his video 😎

    • @Producelikeapro
      @Producelikeapro 4 года назад +9

      AustinSummersOfficial you’re too kind! Wytse is one of the best! I love his blend between modern and classic gear! Gives me hope!!

  • @cottoo1
    @cottoo1 4 года назад +139

    So many new plugins, so little time to actually make music

  • @matbell1514
    @matbell1514 4 года назад +132

    I bet it will work amazingly on Sandstorm by Darude

    • @marcusherbold993
      @marcusherbold993 4 года назад +5

      Never heard it before. any good? 😂😂😂

    • @DavidPalmer_blinder
      @DavidPalmer_blinder 4 года назад

      but i do have to admit, this is a pretty good version of sandstorm!

    • @SyncdAlien
      @SyncdAlien 4 года назад +1

      @@DavidPalmer_blinder lol

  • @DjPlink
    @DjPlink 3 года назад +24

    For the plate to sound like a plate you may need to reduce all other reverbs or mute them

  • @keshavjagannath5854
    @keshavjagannath5854 4 года назад +68

    *Gets email from izotope's newsletter about neoverb
    "aight when's the snake oil vid"

  • @Rhekluse
    @Rhekluse 4 года назад +74

    You had the Plate & Hall reverbs active at the same time, which is why the plate didn't sound like just a plate. Very cool reverb tho!

    • @MonkeyBars1
      @MonkeyBars1 4 года назад +9

      but I thought Wytse dragged the ball all the way to the left bottom which should have played 100% plate right

    • @Rhekluse
      @Rhekluse 4 года назад +4

      @@MonkeyBars1 That is entirely possible. I just saw that the 3 modules on the left were all turned up.

    • @conanliquid
      @conanliquid 4 года назад +6

      @Jurgen Wirtz I was going to say the exact same thing

  • @geraldpatient7546
    @geraldpatient7546 4 года назад +7

    I have been using this for a few days mainly on vocals at the moment and I was impressed with how quick it was to create a custom reverb that sound amazing thanks for all of your tutorials

  • @matt_nyc_audioengineer
    @matt_nyc_audioengineer 3 года назад +5

    I've had Neoverb for a few months now, it's great! iZotope own Exponential Audio who in my opinion make the best reverbs you can find in a plugin and they used their reverbs in Neoverb. I don't use it on every mix but when I do I'm always happy with it!

  • @quixotique
    @quixotique 4 года назад +7

    As a beginner into the world of music production, this seems like a great tool to play with Reverb. Thanks for the review!!! I was happy to discover that I have it by nature of having MPB3 and free upgrade to MPB4, and it's in the bundle! Yay!!!

  • @Vikotnick
    @Vikotnick 4 года назад +9

    I'll stick to the Pro-R for the moment. I will try this out when I have time. It does have some cool things.

  • @samuelsmith4494
    @samuelsmith4494 Год назад +2

    If you can live with the somewhat high cpu and latency of NeoVerb, its a good option. In this case the A.I. thingy actually makes decent suggestions for pre and post EQ. And the reverb algos are by Exponential Audio, which are very very good.

  • @marcusherbold993
    @marcusherbold993 4 года назад +12

    Bro I seriously opened Neoverb 10 minutes ago to check it out and then you drop this video 😂😂😂 incredible timing

  • @farhadfaraji2844
    @farhadfaraji2844 4 года назад +4

    This is only channel that has the notification turned on. Thanks for the content

  • @matthewherrera6055
    @matthewherrera6055 4 года назад +19

    This isn’t a review we wanted this the review we needed

    • @aardjazz
      @aardjazz 4 года назад +2

      sounded like an echo or something R...

  • @Stjerneklang528
    @Stjerneklang528 4 года назад +11

    Finally something for the ladies that will listen to them going on and on about nails, their new clothes and reality shows. Thanks iZotope!

  • @FatDeamen
    @FatDeamen 4 года назад +8

    iZotope and their automation software is just crazy. Great company

  • @MobiusVideo
    @MobiusVideo 4 года назад +10

    “Let’s go full plate”. Proceeds to boost the Hall verb.
    “That’s not how my plate sounds”. No, that’s because..um...yeah...ok.

    • @jinxt8432
      @jinxt8432 4 года назад +2

      the purple IS the plate

    • @gruforevs
      @gruforevs 4 года назад

      I think he did it right, he wasnt moving the hall knob he was moving the middle control

  • @byyykramermusic
    @byyykramermusic 2 года назад +1

    dope plugin. i usually used valhallaverb but after using this think i'll be switching. has a really nice sound and customisation options.

  • @DynamicRockers
    @DynamicRockers 4 года назад +2

    This is actually sounding very good! The reverb is really dense like L480 or TC6000 when you combined algos on the several DSPs.

  • @BrandonChapaBeats
    @BrandonChapaBeats 4 года назад +6

    I think its a dope reverb not gonna lie. I dont like that theres no bypass button thats nice and visible. Other than that its easy to get a nice reverb. nice vid brotha. 🔥

  • @dykodesigns
    @dykodesigns 4 года назад +2

    The plugin looks fairly easy to use yet it sounds pretty advanced / complex. I prefer an 80’s sounding reverb, that Yamaha box is right up my alley. I always use Roomworks SE which has a few basic descriptive presets and not much controls. This new iZoptope plugin does look like a colour picker from photoshop. It looks fresh but I would prefer if it had some classic catergories like the room type + size combination.

  • @citadelo5ricks
    @citadelo5ricks 3 года назад +1

    First "OK" is hilarious after hearing that slick "in your ear" Izotope PR voice.

  • @lildog5360
    @lildog5360 4 года назад +1

    A beautiful plug hands down

  • @mycosys
    @mycosys 9 месяцев назад

    It took me a bit to figure out, but NeoVerb is an attempt to make Exponential Symphony/R4 family algorithms more accessible.
    Rather than the massive preset list in Symphony, it attempts to provide you a preset by the criteria you set and the tone of your music (ozone algos)

  • @iainmackenzieUK
    @iainmackenzieUK 4 года назад +2

    Thanks for the review. Not enough difference to justify shifting from Pro R. See if its gaining a go-to reputation (as per fabfilter) after 8 months or more; then reconsider :)

  • @rogercabo5545
    @rogercabo5545 4 года назад +3

    The absolute first thing I'm trying is, when using a reverb, how sounds the plate! A Plate does not have early reflections. The Neuroverb Plate sound a bit like wet naked (perhaps good for some babe pictures) , but I don't like oil tank characteristics at all. I own an Yamaha R1000 (not a Motorcycle), 4 knob length with Eq. This sounds real granulated because of mono.

  • @carlojames2658
    @carlojames2658 4 года назад +3

    Lol such a subtle brag " I always skip pass it because I get early access to izotopes products". Great video bro deff subscribing after this one keep up the great content.

  • @DarkMetaOFFICIAL
    @DarkMetaOFFICIAL 4 года назад +4

    I'm getting to the part where he's talking about blending the different algorithms. I guess that's pretty cool but that's going to also give a different effect than layering in a signal chain. Because sometimes that creates the sound you wanted to have anyways.
    Now but the auto cut feature? thats freaking sweet. I've been thinking for a long time we need some artificial intelligence to be able to train it to understand what we do as producers based on our style or genre and then suggest different edits or Cuts in our mix or in our audio. That would be amazing. You could try the thing that the robot suggests, then just try it, like thanks bot! And be on your way LOL

  • @groovekingdom6552
    @groovekingdom6552 3 года назад

    Forget this reverb for a second the music or that vocal was gorgeous....perfect what shows off the plugin.....Great reverb.....seems even better or more musical sound.... Not till side by side...but this is a new sound....

  • @avrahax7714
    @avrahax7714 4 года назад +1

    For the first time ; i see a video tutorial inside an other video video tutorial,great

  • @Dropeoff
    @Dropeoff 4 года назад

    Thank you for this review and congratulations for your 100 000 subscribers!

  • @eyeiaye
    @eyeiaye 4 года назад +1

    100k is right around the corner!

  • @quintonrice4122
    @quintonrice4122 3 года назад

    There are different reverbs if you didn't know yet. The little arrows below "plate" for example, change the plate type.

    • @aabc
      @aabc 3 года назад

      He knows

  • @PaulChabot
    @PaulChabot 4 года назад

    Not even done the video, just started, but your description of reverb, and confusion that technically, could listen... I guess? I felt the same way.

  • @Bag-Of-Toys
    @Bag-Of-Toys 4 года назад +1

    what are you saying there? Round-Sound Machine? Ram-Sound Machine? What is that?

  • @emmanuelleroy2915
    @emmanuelleroy2915 3 года назад

    these songs be sounding amazing

  • @J-DUB-F1
    @J-DUB-F1 4 года назад +4

    That, is a really silky verb!! ;:-)
    I'd like to compare it to the Arturia Plate 140 I recently got...........that's sweet you got a real one! :-)

  • @reeread
    @reeread 4 года назад +1

    Thank you that was a very fair review of an interesting product.

  • @GregorysMode
    @GregorysMode 3 года назад +1

    I like you, like simple to stuff that enable me to tweak my sound effectivly and quickly. All in all I try to resist the iZotope AI. Im going to be buying sonsig from relab instead. To my ear it just sounds warmer. I love the LX480 too.

  • @rogercabo5545
    @rogercabo5545 4 года назад +4

    For me the dry/mix is very strange. It's totally glued with the original signal at 50% and remove the transients of the dry signal. Why they don't add side chain or ducking and is there pre-delay possible anyway? Called it Dreft Reverbwash 3in1!

  • @thomaskarlsson5503
    @thomaskarlsson5503 4 года назад +4

    That reverb sounds great. Another one that I discovered which is easier to use, cheap but sounds great is RAUM. Did you ever test it?

    • @yony_music
      @yony_music 3 года назад +2

      Yeah, I love that one! I always use it with the airy option on vocal chops :D

  • @JonNeimeister
    @JonNeimeister 4 года назад +5

    I've been a Pro-R junkie since it came out, and I'll definitely still use it on every tune, but this one is a really strong contender too, esp. for combining multiple reverb sounds in the same plugin and automating the XY pad to transition over time. The "Smooth" knob is also quite delicious and saves you setting up some de-essers / EQs pre-verb. iZotope making good stuff as always. :D

  • @phfatband
    @phfatband 4 года назад

    Have owned and do own a bunch of fancy outboard reverbs (lexicon pcm70, 224, 300, 80, 81, 91. Roland r880, Yamaha spx1000, spx990 and bricasti m7). The exponential audio plugs that these are based on still get used a BUNCH. Prefer them to just about all the other reverb plugs I’ve tried. Def squashes the lexicon native bundle. the interface is far more useful on the original plugs (R4, r2, nimbus, Phoenix verb) than on this version by the looks of things.

  • @Homestudiosimplifed
    @Homestudiosimplifed 3 года назад

    He said simplified... Thumbs up right there!

  • @samuel9004
    @samuel9004 Год назад

    1:25 One of my favourite reverbs are the small version of the Softube Tsar reverb, because it's simple.

  • @PharaohLawLess1
    @PharaohLawLess1 4 года назад +5

    Looks like my bank account is about to be missing some money

    • @RevCQ7
      @RevCQ7 4 года назад

      Rent to own on splice~

  • @spice3d
    @spice3d 4 года назад +2

    Thanks. I’m anyways interested in your take on plugins and I highly value your opinion. This one looks interesting.

  • @ixxirecords26
    @ixxirecords26 4 года назад +1

    Looks pretty intuitive and simple. They're gonna have to sell me pretty hard if I'm switching from Fab-R and Valhalla for creative reverb, though.
    Love Izotopes products bigtime. Was looking forward to seeing stuff on this, thanks

    • @jonathancrowell4805
      @jonathancrowell4805 4 года назад

      IXXI Records for real man, Valhalla is amazing. Gonna get shimmer soon, but I’m really digging vintage verb.

  • @tumzaembeats
    @tumzaembeats 4 года назад

    this vst is beautiful and sounds great.

  • @jdigital1
    @jdigital1 4 года назад

    I like it, I'm considering upgrading to get Neoverb and the new plugin features that come added with Music Production SUITE 4, Nectar 3 plus also looks promising!

  • @MadDogE134
    @MadDogE134 4 года назад

    turn off the other parts (relfections and hall etc.) then listen to the plate by itself. to turn off the parts... click the little icons on them or the triangle corners. you won't hear only the plate with everything active. cheers

  • @Not-Only-Reaper-Tutorials
    @Not-Only-Reaper-Tutorials 4 года назад +1

    I really challenge anybody to recognize wich reverb is used in a given song, without knowing anything about that song (how does it was recorded etc etc etc), just blind test into a real context.

  • @mofateam1
    @mofateam1 4 года назад +1

    Great review, as always. I only wish they woul have included some kind of lofi-ish reverb algorithm, a spring reverb. Otherwise intreresting new reverb...

  • @mistergrooveman1018
    @mistergrooveman1018 3 года назад

    always a good vibes here ! thanks for that !

  • @jamodrama
    @jamodrama 2 года назад

    You are right, it does not sound like a plate reverb. If you want a good plate reverb I recommend Waves Abbey Rd Plate Reverb.

    • @samuelsmith4494
      @samuelsmith4494 Год назад

      If you change the parms in the popout panel for the plate algo, it can sound like a traditional plate.

  • @cortical1
    @cortical1 4 года назад +35

    Music is love forever. I like it but it's not typically what MILF stands for.

  • @GianlucaSibaldi
    @GianlucaSibaldi 4 года назад

    This reverb sounds very nice but the “listening” feature it seems to me quite a joke. To really blend and optimise well with vocals you should cut resonating frequencies way more than the gentle and mostly uneffective eq it automatically applies. After the “listening” process I can still hear strong resonances I’d like to be drastically cut away to avoid frequencies buildup.

  • @JackBNimbletradez
    @JackBNimbletradez 4 года назад +3

    Better than Sonible Smart Reverb?

  • @jokusekovaan
    @jokusekovaan 4 года назад +2

    What, White Sea is now into automatic EQs and reverb assistants? Besides I think the theory behind reverb unmasking is unsound. It would be interesting if it was possible to use the *opposite* pre-EQ curve.

  • @crossdraw1006
    @crossdraw1006 Год назад

    I’m having trouble dealing with the redundancy of putting Neoverb behind Neutron 4, which already has a simpler, less overwhelming reverb built into it.

  • @clolo4615
    @clolo4615 4 года назад +2

    I think the old hardware multi effect units sounds better than any soft. For less of the ridiculous prices software costs.

    • @jocke1972
      @jocke1972 4 года назад

      Clo Lo they are also software though, just in another box

    • @clolo4615
      @clolo4615 4 года назад

      @@jocke1972 With a circuit >different coding (non vst) >amps. I understand you talk theoretically Have you ever compared hardware to sotf?

  • @nikku1166
    @nikku1166 4 года назад +1

    I would definitely use this thing. little pricy, but I'm sure they'll have a ton of sales and combo packs

    • @tommino8970
      @tommino8970 4 года назад +1

      "Neoverb: Crossgrade from any paid iZotope product $99" so was the email from iZotope this week

    • @alexz4431
      @alexz4431 4 года назад

      You can rent to own on Splice for $9.99/month. Plus 3 days free. It’s worth it!

  • @cahlajthepoetmc9746
    @cahlajthepoetmc9746 4 года назад +1

    Thanks for the review. We appreciate it.

  • @Lawls
    @Lawls 4 года назад

    Congrats on 100k subs my dude, well overdue!

  • @emiel333
    @emiel333 4 года назад

    I’ve got Fabfilter Pro R you mentioned. It’s lovely. Also, Audio Damage had Eos2. Also a great one running on the Valhalla DSP.

  • @tonyr.4778
    @tonyr.4778 4 года назад +4

    Can you do a comparison of neoverb and sonibles smartverb?

    • @cfs
      @cfs 4 года назад

      @BillyFreethought I liked some aspects of the sonible UI better, but there's a few things iZotope did better, too. As far as the sound... the Exponential reverbs are in the top tier (no, not everyone lists them as their favorites) and are time-tested modern classics almost. The sonible sound is new and, I found, lacking in comparison. I could've purchased the sonible one for $50 and passed. This one is $99 and I'll probably wait until a sale next year because I already have Nimbus and R4 and an EQ I can use in the mean time :-)

  • @RevCQ7
    @RevCQ7 4 года назад +2

    Should do a video comparing this to Sonible Smart Reverb

    • @RevCQ7
      @RevCQ7 3 года назад

      @@montyzuma9365 Maybe, haven't tested either. The relay functionality is a def selling point if you have Ozone and Neutron, or even Nectar.

  • @hitsonacousticguitar
    @hitsonacousticguitar 4 года назад

    Man, I love your videos, but an ad after 2 minutes? That's no fun.

  • @gruforevs
    @gruforevs 4 года назад

    Thanks for the video, really respect your opinion when it comes to this stuff

  • @rafaelhernandez5550
    @rafaelhernandez5550 4 года назад +1

    Great video like evething that you do. Thank you Bro,

  • @ShadikTV
    @ShadikTV 4 года назад

    Yes, right on time. My guy. You are probably the most-watched RUclipsr on my subscription list. Word. Thanks. I just posted a comment about this yesterday and look it hear. Breakfast! Good morning from Alaska.

    • @ShadikTV
      @ShadikTV 4 года назад

      Ok now let me click play lol

    • @ShadikTV
      @ShadikTV 4 года назад

      Let's Go Baby!!! @ 4:00 now lol

  • @justinmarcus1049
    @justinmarcus1049 3 года назад

    If you look at the history of Exponential Audio you see it's designer, Michael Carnes is ex Lexicon: Hence the "Plate" algorithm would be closer to a Lexicon "Plate" than a real Plate (For that I would look at SKnote or TimP for Nebula

  • @chillcomputerguy
    @chillcomputerguy 4 года назад +8

    What do I do with my other 27 Reverbs?

    • @Nomasiac
      @Nomasiac 4 года назад +1

      🤣🤣🤣🤣 U know 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

    • @jonathancrowell4805
      @jonathancrowell4805 4 года назад +1

      LMAOOO

  • @СергейГорбачев-я3г
    @СергейГорбачев-я3г 4 года назад +4

    By the way! Wytse, can you recognize reverb type on vocal of the song “Owner of the lonely heart” by Yes? It’s very interesting.

    • @neuronmind
      @neuronmind 4 года назад +1

      Owner of a lonely heart is produced by Trevor Horn , one of the best producers on the planet. There's no reverb that will make you sound like him. I bet there's a whole chain of effects on John Andersons vocals. There's lot's of interviews on you tube with Trevor so go check it out. ruclips.net/video/X3Za2xF3wAc/видео.html

  • @NewMateo
    @NewMateo 4 года назад +1

    I love Izotopes products.

  • @conanliquid
    @conanliquid 4 года назад

    I don't find the Lex's complicated at all, but that's probably because I have used them since 1984. I tried this out yesterday. It's ok. Not sure it's worth 200 bucks when you compare it to a lot of reverbs that are way cheaper and as good, if not better, but I do respect iZotope for breaking ground on their plugins. I would say their main competition is Fabfilter so they need to be on their game because Fabfilter is industry-standard pretty much. Anyway, thank you for the video. As usual, you annoyed me, but that's why I subscribe. Have a great day.

  • @waedi73
    @waedi73 Год назад

    after northern light reverb I can't wait radioactive fallout reverbs !

  • @GustafWestin
    @GustafWestin 4 года назад +1

    I like RVerb a lot, but this one sounds 👍

  • @Bluelagoonstudios
    @Bluelagoonstudios 3 года назад

    Thanks for this review, sounds very promising.

  • @mrmorpheus9707
    @mrmorpheus9707 4 года назад +3

    I bet you your plate dnt sound like my plate either! Smh

  • @AndreHansen96
    @AndreHansen96 4 года назад

    Dang I love iZotope plug-ins!

  • @AuroraBPolaris
    @AuroraBPolaris 4 года назад

    As soon as I heard that plate I was like "uhmmmm....."

  • @samueldainthomas
    @samueldainthomas 4 года назад

    That's not how my plate sounds like! Lol!

  • @WillayG
    @WillayG 4 года назад

    So you liked this and smart:reverb by sonible. Which one would yoh chose? All opinions welcome.
    I know there's demos available but just looking for community opinions.

  • @smr73
    @smr73 4 года назад

    Thank you for your videos! Would love to see you checking out Hornet VU Meter. Take care 😌👍🏻

  • @Felix00007
    @Felix00007 4 года назад +14

    *When You're Reverb Have More IQ than You*

  • @mantaproject
    @mantaproject 4 года назад

    Nice review Wytse, btw have you ever tried the UAD plates? they are my favourite.

  • @roberthunt1540
    @roberthunt1540 4 года назад +9

    Essentially what Izotope has done here is to add AI functions to their recently acquired Exponential plugin line. The algos are written by Michael Carnes, originally of Lexicon (he wrote the algos for the PCM 92 or 96?). He sold Exponential to Izotope a few years ago, and continues as a consultant and developer.
    I have never found his newer reverbs to have the special magic of the old Lexicon machines. So in the case of this Neoverb, it seems Izotope has simply integrated their AI software with Michael's verbs and come up with this. It's fine, so far as it goes, but I just find the underlying reverbs themselves to be "meh". So no buy for me.

    • @damonwicketts1638
      @damonwicketts1638 3 года назад

      Yeah. I really want to like izotope because they are giving producers like me a chance at having HQ plug-ins with their splice model, but I really find their AI lacking.

  • @harryolive1853
    @harryolive1853 Год назад

    Why Neoverb has no ducking init ? Same as others own no auto-gain? 💥

  • @EdVizenor
    @EdVizenor 4 года назад +1

    What ARTIST are you mixing? She sounds amazing. Would love to know. Thanks.

    • @ManvendraShahBEE
      @ManvendraShahBEE 3 года назад

      ruclips.net/video/9Xf6GO4dF0s/видео.html

    • @drydessert4198
      @drydessert4198 Год назад

      Roots and Recognition - Next Sunday (feat. Jennifer Holm)

  • @ThrasherR81
    @ThrasherR81 4 года назад +2

    Which song is this it's soo soothing😳😍

    • @trollingisasport
      @trollingisasport 4 года назад

      Missing You

    • @KnzoVortex
      @KnzoVortex 4 года назад +2

      Sandstorm - Darude (he said in the video)

    • @matthijshebly
      @matthijshebly 4 года назад

      What artist though?
      And no, it's not sandstorm by darude...

    • @ThrasherR81
      @ThrasherR81 4 года назад

      @@matthijshebly ruclips.net/video/9Xf6GO4dF0s/видео.html
      Thank me later

  • @carlojames2658
    @carlojames2658 4 года назад +2

    Lol I'm a sucker I bought this yesterday

  • @TheGurner1
    @TheGurner1 4 года назад +1

    I got the Tonal Balance package recently - it's good stuff but in the main I can mix much faster without it - still I'm glad I got it, all the Ozone 9 Advanced plugins - great EQ and compressor etc - will this be similar, speed up or slow down?

  • @theq937
    @theq937 3 года назад

    Thanks for the review! Is this song released? Love it

  • @primeeye
    @primeeye 4 года назад

    It seems good but i love valhalla may be i will get this in the future

  • @heathrezabek
    @heathrezabek 3 года назад +1

    Do you have any thoughts on comparison between Neoverb and Sonible smart:reverb?

  • @bombjelly5795
    @bombjelly5795 Год назад +1

    It’s $25 today on plugin boutique

  • @porotosExiliados
    @porotosExiliados 4 года назад

    How about verbsuite by slate digital? I personally think it's the best

  • @kimmossige263
    @kimmossige263 6 месяцев назад

    Do you add the reverb effect as it's own Stereo FX channel, or do you slap it directly on to the mono vocal track?
    Does the plugin listen to all other instruments in the DAW, or does it only listen to the vocal track alone?

  • @Usenabt
    @Usenabt 4 года назад

    Not sure why they designed the 'Blender' UI based off a beauty blender brush from but..... i guess?...