*Apologies all,* I know the audio isn't great on this one. At 1:48 the audio improves, and you get into the nerdy details/advantages of the axial flux motor. Sometimes I experiment with different audio setups - I tested this new mic setup at home and things went great, took it out for a shoot and it simply picks up way too much external noise (the interior is not as loud as this video makes it seem). I promise I'll learn from it, but I'll also probably make mistakes in the future - so it goes, appreciate you watching!! For some fun info, both Ferrari and Koenigsegg are also using this style of electric motor. Becoming more popular in the supercar segment! Mercedes also using it. Will be curious to see if the trend continues.
That's honestly really bad, at this point you should have reshoot the audio in your home, and overlay generic images instead of you in that car, as it being absolutely nothing to the video
Did you ever think you'd get to the point in your RUclips career that you'd start off your video with reviewing the latest McClaren? What a wild ride! Congrats
Not sure what’s more impressive, the axial flux motor or Jason’s ability to remember this information, articulate it and drive at the same time in an easily understandable way. Been a fan of the channel for years. Never ceases to amaze me! Thanks for everything you do!
I usually take exception to people talking to the camera while they drive but this guy handles it as if he was an ex-aviator. 👍 p.s. don’t try this at home people folks and those with similar channels you’re not as good as this guy so you should not do this, no.
@@JoeOvercoat This Jason is a university professor & professional orator. He does this for a living & he's damn good at it & vastly experienced! Just saying!
Really cool to see this, i actually work at yasa motors in oxford uk, these are the motors that we produce everyday for mclaren, mercedes and ferrari, great to hear jason talking about this!
Why these motors aren't used in EVs, are they more expensive to produce or there is some other issue. From packaging standpoint these bad boys are no brainer.
As an electric motor designer, I have to say that I am impressed by your video. Some people make videos saying, that AF motors are better in every way, which is not true. However I want to clear up a few minor points: (AF = axial flux, RF = radial flux) McLaren says, its the first series production vehicle road vehicle using an AF motor. However the Ferrari SF90 Stradale also has an AF motor. Am I missing something here? Surely McLaren would know that. The more crucial point for this video are the advantages of the AF motor. Generally RF motors have higher power densities. For example the SF90 front (RF) motors have 99kW at 12kg (133hp at 26,5lbs). This is because they spin up to 25000 rpm. They don't need to have much torque to achieve that power due to the high speed. This AF motor has 70,1kW at 15,4 kg (94hp at 34lbs). So less power and more weight. The reason, why the AF motors are good at this application, is that they make good power at speeds of the ICE. In pure EVs you generally only care about power density (and field weakening range). Torque density does not really matter much, because you can multiply the torque with a gearbox. That's why pure EVs generally have RF motors.
So axial flux motors have higher torque but can’t spin as fast due to bigger diameter rotors, so less power overall. It seems that axial flux would make better hub motors for cars because of the 1:1 rpm with the wheels (low speed) and their shape which matches that of a wheel more closely.
the magnetic flux can also flow from the north pole on one side to the south pole on the other rotor. this results in greater magnetic flux density around the stator since the magnetic field lines are being squeezed towards a parallel line between each magnetic pair that passes thru the stator.
@@EngineeringExplained Why use axial flux or radial flux? Why not use racial flux? A father & Son American company invented the electric motor sandwich! They a radial flux motor between two halves of a an axial flux motor. This uses ends of the radial stator copper as the starter for the axial motors at each end. Free extra energy, power & torques. Check out the Hunstable electric turbine.
@@kevinburke6743 There's no such thing as "racial" flux, keep race out of this discussion, what you mean is something else. Here's a quote from the article you are mentioning: "Linear Labs says all the HET generates all torque in the direction of rotor motion. In a promotional video, Fred Hunstable said, “We call it circumferential flux, sort of like a torque tunnel.” Hunstable coined his motor as circumferential flux motor.
This is exactly the kind of plug-in hybrid turbo technology I've wanted! Throwing in the axial flux motor there makes it even that much better. With the battery regen modes, and hydraulic assist steering - it's like they were reading my mind. Now if they could put the same sort of features in a more affordable package.
This is one of your best videos ever. Truly fascinating design and engineering, and great sound and images of that beautiful car. My first thought was that it’s a P1 that “normal” enthusiasts can actually buy.
Getting 100hp out of something half the size of a torqueconverter, is AMAZING. Basically put two of those together in a transmission for 200hp, and run any small car without the weight and cubic feet space requirement of an actual engine bay! Imagine what engineers can do with the entire driveline being basically a transmission under the car and no engine bay at all, and still get several hundred horsepower out of it with 2-3 of these motors packed down there.
I work in the automotive industry, and I'm passionate about electric motors. I was iterating in my head how to improve the performance and efficiency of electric motors and my conclusion was the same design of these axial flux motors. It's quite interesting.
In terms of energy density and efficiency, radial flux motors, especially synchronous PMMs, are better at that job. That's why they are used in most automotive applications. For P2, of course, you gonna need an axial-flux motor (like Ferrari does for their SF90). P4 is always radial-flux though.
Welcome back. A really interesting video after a really long time. I would love to hear more focussed episodes on individual parts of this car. I really want to know about the clutches -- between the engine and the motor and between the motor and the transmission.
I have to wonder if 4 of these little motors (one at each corner) wouldn't make for an amazing EV experience. Not in supercar territory, but on something the size of a Miata I imagine it would be pretty good.
@@EngineeringExplained That's very similar to the original Tesla Roadster. I hope that maybe Lotus, considering they're going all in on evs, would bring back the light weight, good handling, and not just horsepower focused ev.
It certainly would be elegant engineering wise. Hub motors or short driveshaft direct inboard motors, and each wheel module is independently electrically steerable. A manufacturer could make combinatorial lines of modules from common parts for different combinations of wheel size, power requirements, and vehicle mass requirements.
@@EngineeringExplained - Would benefit from being diff mounted like brakes on older jags. Surely the weight being 100% sprung and centered would be better for handling
@@EngineeringExplained it won’t seat 2 people like a Miata, but the EVSR electric sports racer weighs 1,900lbs and uses direct drive electric motors (though they are radial flux, not axial) and just set a record for an EV, over 1,500 miles at the 25 Hours of Thunderhill last weekend.
As an engineer for YASA, the motors that we have created for McLaren and Ferrari are impressive in their size and weight but we have much more powerful motors that are about the same size. The stuff we are working on at the moment is pushing the limits of materials, manufacturing techniques and engineering design which will be announced soon
I never really thought about the rotational weight of hub rotors, but that’s what I’ve always wanted. Mercedes just put out a G wagon with hub motors but that’s a more appropriate application. I am a coupe kind of guy and really like what they’ve done here
Engineering Explained becomes Cars Explained. Has to be one of the most informative car reviews I’ve seen in a long time, plus educational and informative. Great stuff 👍🏼
My first experience with an axial flux motor actually was when I disassembled one of these Lego Spybot toy robots which also use these as drive motors, they kind of looked like a (permanent magnetic) washer and a spinning disk with 3 flat coils next to it.
Congratulations on another super interesting video, Jason! :) Love your videos. 🙂 Would love them even more if you could have the metric conversions on screen when talking about weight, distance, speed... I think it would be a great help for us, decimal heads. 😁
For a while I autocrossed an MR-S, which is mid engined, very light, and has an open diff. You would never notice, the oversteer behavior was always wonderful. Other cars will 1 wheel peel all over the place. Often people make that worse or more likely with big swaybars. Big swaybars feel great but usually slow you down.
@@Skelterbane69 You're cordially invited to make up your own mind on that😋 One thing should be clear: the sound was distinct and has left a lasting impression. I've worked for McLaren at their world famous Surrey HQ and heard enough engine sounds, seen enough unique cars there to last me a life time
Im prety sure the radiator fan on my 1986 Celica is a radial flux motor. I pulled it open to fix the bearing and it was like all the conductors were all flattened out into a disc. It looks really cool. First time I'd seen a motor like that.
The driving modes are clever! In track mode at WOT it can use all the engine power to drive the wheels, while not at WOT it can use the "extra" engine power to charge the battery for the next WOT burst.
What’s even cooler about that, is since the engines power is being used to charge the battery when pedal isn’t fully depressed, it’s still keeping the turbo spooled!
I like how the title is about the motor, not the car. Absolutely spectacular engineering on the car, though. Anecdote that no one will care about: When I was in high school (in the late 90’s), I was unaware of the Axial Flux motor, but I had learned about mag-lev trains. I imagined a motor with “mag-lev on the outside”, I wanted it to be more of a flywheel, so the stator was on the outside, with the magnets on the outer radius of the flywheel. I figured it could spin up to store energy and clutch out the power when needed… a few years later F1 started using KERS.
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Amazing tutorial throughout the entire video about how this particular vehicle performs and why it is able to do what it does. Very high knowledge level " dumbed down " so even I can understand this particular vehicle's drive train. It was so nice to learn ,I even have it saved in one of my playlists. Thank you Engineering Explained 🙏 😘 ☺️.
Wow! Good job on this video Jason! As someone who doesn't know very much about electric motors, I wasn't sure what to expect. I was able to understand and comprehend everything you were teaching, and you kept it very interesting. When I first heard about this new Mclaren, I thought "just another supercar manufacturer building another hybrid car", but wow, there's a lot of cool new things in this car (I especially liked learning about the packaging advantages the 120 degree V6 has).
These rotors are also much easier to make on your own if you want to build something like a wind turbine or low head water turbine. Been wanting to build one for years. One day.
@@niruvibes Buy the book "Homebrew Wind Power." The process is lined out there. You use specially shaped coils of wire cast in resin, with neodymium magnets, and a trailer wheel hub to spin on. Pretty good homebrew energy information.
The goal is to get away from Rare-Earth magnets. As someone who is Very interested in in DIY and everything Electromagnetics/Electronics, the more I can source myself the better off. At this moment we have beautiful electric motors, the main issue is Batteries. The Future is Electric, I've believed this for decades, with Electricity I can pull water from the sky (not efficiently). Remember that Electrical Energy flows around the Wires, not though them.
I have watched your previous videos and have appreciated your intelligent and insightful analysis. I also recognize the amount of time and effort involved in creating these videos. However, with this current video you have not only once again shown all this, but caused my jaw to remain open in amazement throughout. How did you ever get someone to hand over the keys to a McLaren? I don't know that I've ever been more jealous in my whole life. And then you rub it in by giving your whole presentation while cruising down the road, like its no big deal. Wow. You are the king. Great Job. You say so much good stuff, but I'm also gonna what it a few more times on mute and pretend I'm the passenger seat. Truly amazing.
When you mentioned "The Stator" I couldn't help but think back to the legendary Retro Encabulator video. Surprised this device didn't incorporate any hydrocoptic marzel vanes to prevent any potential of side fumbling.
I guess how "encabulating" it sounds it depends on your background. All I heard were very basic terms, nothing fancy - but that's because I've messed around with electric motors a lot. I can see how it would be pretty encabulating if you didn't have much experience in electric motors! 😅
I stopped being impressed by expensive cars I could never dream of owning years ago but I am impressed by good design and engineering.This McClaren looks to be the epitome of both. I was fortunate to come across (one of) the original McClaren F1 pre production test cars in the UK in 1991 and that was interesting. Ive got photos somewhere. However, that radial flux motor has great potential for other small vehicle applications. If its a McClaren design then Id be selling it on licence.
The other huge reason for the density is that because they produce lots of power at low RPMs you don't need to have a transaxle with step down gearing. You can directly drive the wheels. That means doing a 4 motor drive train is easier and lighter. Which means that you can get to 400 HP trivially and eliminate complexity and weight. And you can stack them on the same axle, so doubling power is as easy as putting 2 motors per wheel instead of one and now you have 800 HP. I suspect Tesla and others are going to Axial Flux soon for this very reason. The best part is no part. Removing the transaxle with no other real downsides and with an easy scaling path, and 4 wheel independent control is a huge win. The only question to me is who's going to try putting these in the wheel as unsprung weight and get rid of the axles entirely. Would be an interesting experiment.
@@shapshooter7769 actually Munroe did a video on a prototype and it was less than you’d imagine. And because there was no drive shaft going through they could build it differently. Sandy Munroe said that he couldn’t notice the sprung mass versus a standard Mercedes.
One thing I absolutely love about this is the electric drive is the reverse gear, I have been trying to build a DIY go kart that is what I call Electric Power Transmission, fueled by gasoline (no large batteries, just a single relatively small, low slung for low CG) The motor throttle is electronically linked to the gas throttle, the gas throttle is fly by wire, and calculates needed charging to keep the capacitors topping up as they discharge into the motors via speed and directional controllers that regulate frequency, voltage, amps, and give me the watt/amp draw info in live time, as well as motor temps. She's all wheel drive using a transaxle cvt setup to deliver power to the wheels on an set of articulated axles.
Question: With this in technology in mind I have though of the tiny V12 engines back in the early days of ferrari ... they had high rev but no torque do you think we could potentially see a comeback of super tiny (maybe high efficient) low displacement v12-v10-v8 hybrids?
I don't think we'll see tiny high cylinder count engines much more. It's a lot of complexity/cost without much benefit, versus simply choosing a smaller cylinder count.
I would assume that high revving v6 or i4 engines would be a possibility instead. The cost and extra fuel consumption doesn't make sense. Porsche will most likely continue using high revving 6 and 4 cylinders as they switch to more hybrid models in future.
@@caseymurray7722 Porsche has stated already that the 911 will stay on liquid fuels and they are building a zero emissions fuel plant in Chile that will be quite competitive at the current fuel prices. The rest of the lineup, i.e. the daily bread and butter (Cayenne, Macan, Panamera etc.) will follow the Taycan to be completely electric. For the european market, their range and features suffice.
Love this content. A nerd likes me geeks out over the complexities in the explanations of the topics. Engineering is so cool. Way better than Medicine IMO.
Which would be better for a small fully electric city car, a classic radial flux motor, or an axial one? From this video, it seems like there are hardly any downsides to using an axial flux electric motor on those types of cars.
94hp? thats really impressive. Imagine a small ecobox with that engine, you could fit more batteries and still keep a small package. Or a car with one of these for each wheel
Jason! Great informative video as always!! Was actually curious if you still had your crosstrek. I am thinking about getting on in a few months, maybe you could give us a super long term review?? Regardless, keep up the awesome work!
Yep, still have it, 6 years old at this point and 50k miles on it. Love it. Only issues I've had are a wheel bearing (covered under warranty), and a brake switch recall. Great lil machine. :)
Does the IC actually rotate backwards when using the enlectric motor to reverse the car? Seems to me that might be hard on things like cam drive chains et all
Cool video on the technology of axial motor used in this super car. Glad they could wedge this powerful motor between the engine and transmission. However, why on earth is there a starter motor on the engine. Makes no sense .
For the first few minutes I thought this was a hub motor used on each wheel, I was excited. When I realized it's used behind an ICE my excitement dropped. It's still a fascinating vehicle and outstanding tech! 👏 😜
One problem with axial flux motors is cooling the rotor, which is not such a problem in hybrid applications where bursts of peak power are short, but is in full electric traction applications. The P1 motor as an internally water cooled rotor that means is has a very good peak vs continuous ratio!
I enjoy watching your videos and pretending I can comprehend what you are saying. Been impressed for years by your ability to simplify the engineering so its easier to understand. Thanks
Yasa is the company in the UK which is known for championing axial motors. It seems strange that McLaren wouldn't have got it from them even though Mercedes bought them.
axial flux motors are so rad. Please continue making videos in a quieter environment. I appreciate that you get to drive around a sweet McLaren, but the background noise makes it harder to listen.
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Wow, I usually like all the videos of this channel, but what amazes me is the stats being recalled and internals being explained while driving the Sports car. Needs some level of internalisation to explain it to us this way. Thanks you and keep up the good work 👍
i suppose decently powerful axial flux motor + gearbox ( automatic or manual doesnt really matter ) is the key for fun and sportier driving EV. Can't wait to see it happening
i like your car reviews. you are able to articulate the tech and thus break down the performance of the car without resorting to cheap cliches like most car reviewers who come from creative backgrounds. a lot of times their cliches can even be questionable so i find this refreshing...i did click on the video to learn about the ins and outs of the axial flux motor, ngl. good stuff.
I'm looking forward to seeing this technology trickling down to affordable sports cars. Maybe we'll see a hybrid MR2 with the G16EGTS turbo 3 from Toyota mated to an axial flux motor for about 400 hp. Although personally I think 300 hp would be plenty if it stays under 3,000 lbs. Lightweight slow cars are always more fun than heavy fast cars.
A V8 has a 90 degree firing pulse that matches the 90 degree cylinder banks, a V6 has a 120 degree firing pulse which works easiest with 60 degree cylinder banks. This also makes the cylinders narrower which reduces the size penalty of DOHC engines that tend to be overly wide. A pushrod engine is much more compact but needs room for the camshaft in the V so those engines frequently are made with 90 degree cylinders. However with 90 degree cylinders they have to use offset crank pins in the crankshaft to achieve the actual 120 degree firing pulse.
Axial Flux motors generally have a North Pole facing a South on the opposite magnet rotor , with poles alternating from North to South around the rotors. The magnetic Flux generated circulates via an iron backing ring in the rotors back around through adjacent magnets, thus intensifying the the field strength. The 120° vee layout of the engine would give a lower centre of gravity and its probably no coincidence that its equal to the phase angle of a 3phase motor.
I noticed the audio but honestly didn’t bother me. Love this car - looks better with a black roof imho. I’d daily the hell out of one of these. Great work as always Jason. Thanks.
Great video Jason, however im not really a fan of the talking while driving. I really prefer the whiteboard/garage videos to understand the concepts. Cheers my friend.
Very cool you got to experience those vehicle on the infield of the Las Vegas speedway! That's a fun little short track I've gotten to run some laps in myself!
Your explanation of axial motors made the video worth watching despite the droning. I'd never heard of them. It's the ones that play loud music while talking that drives me nuts. 😆 🤣
As solid state battery tech (and other close to production competitive battery tech) comes online to improve power density this kind of hybrid technology will only get better which I find exciting.
The primary reason for having a 120 degree V angle is balance: this is the most optimal configuration for a V6 to eliminate primary forces. I learned that from @driving4answers.
The sections of windings outside of the stator are easier to cool than the ones inside - thinly coated copper in direct contact with the coolant medium as opposed to being enclosed in an iron channel but not in thermal contact with the channel wall
The throttle being switched on and off is driving me nuts, my father in law drives that way, he can’t find an ideal throttle to cruise, he switches it on and off like a light switch. Uggh
It’s crazy to me how the weight of top sports cars is now normally well over 3000lb. I can’t believe the C8 Z06 as awesome as it is, weighs almost the same as my full size SUV. It has made high hp a must. I miss the Colin Chapman ethos. So that makes me curious about something that’s hard to sort out from online info, what engine configuration (# cylinders, displacement, layout, induction) has the best power and torque vs weight ratio? I’m including NA, turbo, blower, but if forced induction the weight has to include whatever extra pieces the FI requires over NA.
Honestly, unless it's an electric car, I wouldn't bother getting any "sports car" that easily weighs over 3300 pounds. At least with a electric sports car, all the weight is down low.
Theoretically, probably a highly tuned freevalve turboed V8/V12, think a combo of various Koenigsegg engines. Also, again hypothetically, to maximise power/talk-weight, you'd want this engine to be a direct injection 2 stroke.
I have always considered your Channel as "Food for mu Brain". Chances are I didn't know the Information/context of your Video's beforehand, therefore I have learned something! Always learning something new (not known Information or explanation) every day has always been my goal.
I have owned many exotics including Lambo, Maserati, Aston Martin. Porsche the closest to an exotic without the parts problems. I was a gearhead until owning Teslas and no maintenance. I own a Model X, 3, and Y. I still own a Porsche Panamera 4S just because. EV’s are already 700 -1000 horsepower whereas gas exotics are just moving art. My hearing is gone as too many loud things in past. I will stick with my one powertrain 1000 horsepower BEV. I charge at home with solar and save $600/month on home electricity and gas. No oil filters in land fills. Our kids are really entering the space age with all this new tech. McLaren’s are beautiful and they have jumped ahead of Ferrari, Porsche, and Lambo. Of course, Korneggsegg uses alien tech as cars are out of this world. Great video. Thx
The real reason for the 120° bank angle: 120° is the natural crankshaft cylinder distribution for I3/V6 engines. For a V6 engine that doesn't use 120°, it needs to use offset crank pins.
Yes, shown at 7:57 in the video. But they're also using a balance shaft in the center due to it being 120º, so there are good reasons for other designs (boxer 6 has theoretically perfect balance).
I like the pure electric mode. You can use the car as a daily commuter or in down town, without making noise, pollution or wear the engine and then switch the engine on when you need the range or like to have fun.
*Apologies all,* I know the audio isn't great on this one. At 1:48 the audio improves, and you get into the nerdy details/advantages of the axial flux motor. Sometimes I experiment with different audio setups - I tested this new mic setup at home and things went great, took it out for a shoot and it simply picks up way too much external noise (the interior is not as loud as this video makes it seem). I promise I'll learn from it, but I'll also probably make mistakes in the future - so it goes, appreciate you watching!!
For some fun info, both Ferrari and Koenigsegg are also using this style of electric motor. Becoming more popular in the supercar segment! Mercedes also using it. Will be curious to see if the trend continues.
Could we get a video about Tesla semi only recommended charging to 80%. Also what kind of range in Canadian winter if you stick to 80% recommendation.
Are you gonna do a engineering breakdown on the Tesla semi revisited
perhaps it was the mounting more than the gear, transmitting the cabin noise?
That's honestly really bad, at this point you should have reshoot the audio in your home, and overlay generic images instead of you in that car, as it being absolutely nothing to the video
Thank you for that.
Did you ever think you'd get to the point in your RUclips career that you'd start off your video with reviewing the latest McClaren? What a wild ride! Congrats
Haha, from a $375/month apartment (the early videos) shared with 3 other roommates in college, to the inside of a $278k McLaren. I'm okay with that! 😂
@@EngineeringExplained A $375/mo apartment still probably has more room to live in than any McLaren, unless you're testing a new McLaren motor home.
@@EngineeringExplained you've done well young Padawan...lol
@@Sonny_McMacsson you missed the point
@@787blah Try to keep up, mate.
Not sure what’s more impressive, the axial flux motor or Jason’s ability to remember this information, articulate it and drive at the same time in an easily understandable way. Been a fan of the channel for years. Never ceases to amaze me! Thanks for everything you do!
After you mentioned it. I just realized it and now I am amazed as well.
That's insane, Jason's running on that demon time
Never mind his Mike being duff, why does he have to talk over a droning engine to talk about an electric motor???
I usually take exception to people talking to the camera while they drive but this guy handles it as if he was an ex-aviator. 👍
p.s. don’t try this at home people folks and those with similar channels you’re not as good as this guy so you should not do this, no.
@@JoeOvercoat This Jason is a university professor & professional orator. He does this for a living & he's damn good at it & vastly experienced! Just saying!
Really cool to see this, i actually work at yasa motors in oxford uk, these are the motors that we produce everyday for mclaren, mercedes and ferrari, great to hear jason talking about this!
Right on, cool job!
Why these motors aren't used in EVs, are they more expensive to produce or there is some other issue. From packaging standpoint these bad boys are no brainer.
Was gonna say that the Ferrari 296 uses one of these too. Super compact and cool!
@@ristekostadinov2820most ev's arent as space limited and are instead cost limited and need higher volume.
have any motorcycle companies jumped on this tech yet?
As an electric motor designer, I have to say that I am impressed by your video. Some people make videos saying, that AF motors are better in every way, which is not true. However I want to clear up a few minor points: (AF = axial flux, RF = radial flux)
McLaren says, its the first series production vehicle road vehicle using an AF motor. However the Ferrari SF90 Stradale also has an AF motor. Am I missing something here? Surely McLaren would know that.
The more crucial point for this video are the advantages of the AF motor. Generally RF motors have higher power densities. For example the SF90 front (RF) motors have 99kW at 12kg (133hp at 26,5lbs). This is because they spin up to 25000 rpm. They don't need to have much torque to achieve that power due to the high speed. This AF motor has 70,1kW at 15,4 kg (94hp at 34lbs). So less power and more weight.
The reason, why the AF motors are good at this application, is that they make good power at speeds of the ICE.
In pure EVs you generally only care about power density (and field weakening range). Torque density does not really matter much, because you can multiply the torque with a gearbox. That's why pure EVs generally have RF motors.
Good post!
So axial flux motors have higher torque but can’t spin as fast due to bigger diameter rotors, so less power overall.
It seems that axial flux would make better hub motors for cars because of the 1:1 rpm with the wheels (low speed) and their shape which matches that of a wheel more closely.
the magnetic flux can also flow from the north pole on one side to the south pole on the other rotor. this results in greater magnetic flux density around the stator since the magnetic field lines are being squeezed towards a parallel line between each magnetic pair that passes thru the stator.
Yep! Use it on both sides, and the rotors simply have opposite poles.
That’s the first thing I was thinking as well.
@@EngineeringExplained Why use axial flux or radial flux? Why not use racial flux? A father & Son American company invented the electric motor sandwich! They a radial flux motor between two halves of a an axial flux motor. This uses ends of the radial stator copper as the starter for the axial motors at each end. Free extra energy, power & torques. Check out the Hunstable electric turbine.
@@kevinburke6743 There's no such thing as "racial" flux, keep race out of this discussion, what you mean is something else. Here's a quote from the article you are mentioning:
"Linear Labs says all the HET generates all torque in the direction of rotor motion. In a promotional video, Fred Hunstable said, “We call it circumferential flux, sort of like a torque tunnel.”
Hunstable coined his motor as circumferential flux motor.
This is exactly the kind of plug-in hybrid turbo technology I've wanted! Throwing in the axial flux motor there makes it even that much better. With the battery regen modes, and hydraulic assist steering - it's like they were reading my mind.
Now if they could put the same sort of features in a more affordable package.
This is one of your best videos ever. Truly fascinating design and engineering, and great sound and images of that beautiful car. My first thought was that it’s a P1 that “normal” enthusiasts can actually buy.
Getting 100hp out of something half the size of a torqueconverter, is AMAZING. Basically put two of those together in a transmission for 200hp, and run any small car without the weight and cubic feet space requirement of an actual engine bay! Imagine what engineers can do with the entire driveline being basically a transmission under the car and no engine bay at all, and still get several hundred horsepower out of it with 2-3 of these motors packed down there.
I work in the automotive industry, and I'm passionate about electric motors. I was iterating in my head how to improve the performance and efficiency of electric motors and my conclusion was the same design of these axial flux motors. It's quite interesting.
In terms of energy density and efficiency, radial flux motors, especially synchronous PMMs, are better at that job. That's why they are used in most automotive applications. For P2, of course, you gonna need an axial-flux motor (like Ferrari does for their SF90). P4 is always radial-flux though.
Man, the interior noise is crazy loud in that thing.
its a supercar.. if you want to be insulated from the road and engine noise go by an S class
@@E92M3 thanks for the obvious explaination and your permission to buy wantever I want, no need to be a jerk over such a simple comment.
@@E92M3 : The point us, it makes the video unwatchable
I had to stop the video early. The noise wasn't worth it
he could have done better noise isolation (lapel mic) and post editing
Thanks for doing a review where I actually learnt something rather than the normal reading of the spec sheet quoting bhp, 0-60 and top speed.
Welcome back. A really interesting video after a really long time. I would love to hear more focussed episodes on individual parts of this car. I really want to know about the clutches -- between the engine and the motor and between the motor and the transmission.
Thanks! New videos every other Friday - I think they're interesting, but doesn't mean everyone will haha.
@@EngineeringExplained I find anything McLaren interesting. They really know how to engineer cars.
You read my mind there, the packaging at the rear would be so interesting to know
McLaren should invite you to its premises.
I love that your are rolling off all the tech while your driving. You prepared very very well for this video. Great work!
Thank you!!
I have to wonder if 4 of these little motors (one at each corner) wouldn't make for an amazing EV experience. Not in supercar territory, but on something the size of a Miata I imagine it would be pretty good.
Ha, I'd love to see a lightweight option in the EV space. Miata with two of these at the back & smaller battery good for 150 miles? I'm in!
@@EngineeringExplained That's very similar to the original Tesla Roadster. I hope that maybe Lotus, considering they're going all in on evs, would bring back the light weight, good handling, and not just horsepower focused ev.
It certainly would be elegant engineering wise. Hub motors or short driveshaft direct inboard motors, and each wheel module is independently electrically steerable. A manufacturer could make combinatorial lines of modules from common parts for different combinations of wheel size, power requirements, and vehicle mass requirements.
@@EngineeringExplained - Would benefit from being diff mounted like brakes on older jags. Surely the weight being 100% sprung and centered would be better for handling
@@EngineeringExplained it won’t seat 2 people like a Miata, but the EVSR electric sports racer weighs 1,900lbs and uses direct drive electric motors (though they are radial flux, not axial) and just set a record for an EV, over 1,500 miles at the 25 Hours of Thunderhill last weekend.
As an engineer for YASA, the motors that we have created for McLaren and Ferrari are impressive in their size and weight but we have much more powerful motors that are about the same size.
The stuff we are working on at the moment is pushing the limits of materials, manufacturing techniques and engineering design which will be announced soon
I always liked hub motors, shifting the weight way down to the wheels is nifty. But wedging a motor in with the transmission is very cool also.
I never really thought about the rotational weight of hub rotors, but that’s what I’ve always wanted. Mercedes just put out a G wagon with hub motors but that’s a more appropriate application. I am a coupe kind of guy and really like what they’ve done here
Engineering Explained becomes Cars Explained.
Has to be one of the most informative car reviews I’ve seen in a long time, plus educational and informative.
Great stuff 👍🏼
I'm particularly enamored of the car's ability to change exterior colors in a flash. Light blue, dark blue, yellow, orange, red, white . . . amazing.
The rapid generation of motor technology options right now is very exciting
My first experience with an axial flux motor actually was when I disassembled one of these Lego Spybot toy robots which also use these as drive motors, they kind of looked like a (permanent magnetic) washer and a spinning disk with 3 flat coils next to it.
Very informative car cruise video 😎👍🏽 enjoyed. Cool car. Its interesting watching automobiles evolve over the decades .
Congratulations on another super interesting video, Jason! :)
Love your videos. 🙂 Would love them even more if you could have the metric conversions on screen when talking about weight, distance, speed... I think it would be a great help for us, decimal heads. 😁
That's a Yes from me too. Though I think and work in a strange hybrid of Metric and Imperial systems.
For a while I autocrossed an MR-S, which is mid engined, very light, and has an open diff. You would never notice, the oversteer behavior was always wonderful. Other cars will 1 wheel peel all over the place. Often people make that worse or more likely with big swaybars. Big swaybars feel great but usually slow you down.
I had an MRI scan many years ago, this car sounds just like that!
Idk if that's a good or bad thing..
@@Skelterbane69 You're cordially invited to make up your own mind on that😋
One thing should be clear: the sound was distinct and has left a lasting impression. I've worked for McLaren at their world famous Surrey HQ and heard enough engine sounds, seen enough unique cars there to last me a life time
Im prety sure the radiator fan on my 1986 Celica is a radial flux motor. I pulled it open to fix the bearing and it was like all the conductors were all flattened out into a disc. It looks really cool. First time I'd seen a motor like that.
The driving modes are clever! In track mode at WOT it can use all the engine power to drive the wheels, while not at WOT it can use the "extra" engine power to charge the battery for the next WOT burst.
What’s even cooler about that, is since the engines power is being used to charge the battery when pedal isn’t fully depressed, it’s still keeping the turbo spooled!
I like how the title is about the motor, not the car. Absolutely spectacular engineering on the car, though.
Anecdote that no one will care about:
When I was in high school (in the late 90’s), I was unaware of the Axial Flux motor, but I had learned about mag-lev trains. I imagined a motor with “mag-lev on the outside”, I wanted it to be more of a flywheel, so the stator was on the outside, with the magnets on the outer radius of the flywheel. I figured it could spin up to store energy and clutch out the power when needed… a few years later F1 started using KERS.
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Amazing tutorial throughout the entire video about how this particular vehicle performs and why it is able to do what it does. Very high knowledge level " dumbed down " so even I can understand this particular vehicle's drive train. It was so nice to learn ,I even have it saved in one of my playlists. Thank you Engineering Explained 🙏 😘 ☺️.
Wow! Good job on this video Jason! As someone who doesn't know very much about electric motors, I wasn't sure what to expect. I was able to understand and comprehend everything you were teaching, and you kept it very interesting. When I first heard about this new Mclaren, I thought "just another supercar manufacturer building another hybrid car", but wow, there's a lot of cool new things in this car (I especially liked learning about the packaging advantages the 120 degree V6 has).
Sound quality is very poor, hard to understand!
The most common washing machines sold in my country uses a very similar motor design and they've been using that for more than 20 years
These rotors are also much easier to make on your own if you want to build something like a wind turbine or low head water turbine. Been wanting to build one for years. One day.
how would i make one
@@niruvibes Buy the book "Homebrew Wind Power." The process is lined out there. You use specially shaped coils of wire cast in resin, with neodymium magnets, and a trailer wheel hub to spin on. Pretty good homebrew energy information.
@@wiredforstereo interesting thanks
@@niruvibes Also many videos about it on youtube!
The goal is to get away from Rare-Earth magnets. As someone who is Very interested in in DIY and everything Electromagnetics/Electronics, the more I can source myself the better off. At this moment we have beautiful electric motors, the main issue is Batteries.
The Future is Electric, I've believed this for decades, with Electricity I can pull water from the sky (not efficiently).
Remember that Electrical Energy flows around the Wires, not though them.
I have watched your previous videos and have appreciated your intelligent and insightful analysis. I also recognize the amount of time and effort involved in creating these videos. However, with this current video you have not only once again shown all this, but caused my jaw to remain open in amazement throughout. How did you ever get someone to hand over the keys to a McLaren? I don't know that I've ever been more jealous in my whole life. And then you rub it in by giving your whole presentation while cruising down the road, like its no big deal. Wow. You are the king. Great Job. You say so much good stuff, but I'm also gonna what it a few more times on mute and pretend I'm the passenger seat. Truly amazing.
When you mentioned "The Stator" I couldn't help but think back to the legendary Retro Encabulator video. Surprised this device didn't incorporate any hydrocoptic marzel vanes to prevent any potential of side fumbling.
I guess how "encabulating" it sounds it depends on your background. All I heard were very basic terms, nothing fancy - but that's because I've messed around with electric motors a lot. I can see how it would be pretty encabulating if you didn't have much experience in electric motors! 😅
Wait, isn’t that was those things on the side are? 🤔
I stopped being impressed by expensive cars I could never dream of owning years ago but I am impressed by good design and engineering.This McClaren looks to be the epitome of both.
I was fortunate to come across (one of) the original McClaren F1 pre production test cars in the UK in 1991 and that was interesting. Ive got photos somewhere.
However, that radial flux motor has great potential for other small vehicle applications. If its a McClaren design then Id be selling it on licence.
Having worked on the gearbox software I can say we definitely thought on putting an Easter egg for engaging all gears while in reverse! 😂
The first thing I thought of when I saw that motor was, "torque converter." Perfect fit inside a transmission's bell housing.
The other huge reason for the density is that because they produce lots of power at low RPMs you don't need to have a transaxle with step down gearing. You can directly drive the wheels. That means doing a 4 motor drive train is easier and lighter. Which means that you can get to 400 HP trivially and eliminate complexity and weight. And you can stack them on the same axle, so doubling power is as easy as putting 2 motors per wheel instead of one and now you have 800 HP.
I suspect Tesla and others are going to Axial Flux soon for this very reason. The best part is no part. Removing the transaxle with no other real downsides and with an easy scaling path, and 4 wheel independent control is a huge win.
The only question to me is who's going to try putting these in the wheel as unsprung weight and get rid of the axles entirely. Would be an interesting experiment.
It'd be a hella overbuilt wheel hub of sorts.
@@shapshooter7769 actually Munroe did a video on a prototype and it was less than you’d imagine. And because there was no drive shaft going through they could build it differently. Sandy Munroe said that he couldn’t notice the sprung mass versus a standard Mercedes.
One thing I absolutely love about this is the electric drive is the reverse gear, I have been trying to build a DIY go kart that is what I call Electric Power Transmission, fueled by gasoline (no large batteries, just a single relatively small, low slung for low CG)
The motor throttle is electronically linked to the gas throttle, the gas throttle is fly by wire, and calculates needed charging to keep the capacitors topping up as they discharge into the motors via speed and directional controllers that regulate frequency, voltage, amps, and give me the watt/amp draw info in live time, as well as motor temps.
She's all wheel drive using a transaxle cvt setup to deliver power to the wheels on an set of articulated axles.
Welcome!
That would make such a killer E-motorcycle motor!
Question: With this in technology in mind I have though of the tiny V12 engines back in the early days of ferrari ... they had high rev but no torque do you think we could potentially see a comeback of super tiny (maybe high efficient) low displacement v12-v10-v8 hybrids?
I don't think we'll see tiny high cylinder count engines much more. It's a lot of complexity/cost without much benefit, versus simply choosing a smaller cylinder count.
A Ferrari 250 with a 3 liter V12 with this motor would be great!
I would assume that high revving v6 or i4 engines would be a possibility instead. The cost and extra fuel consumption doesn't make sense. Porsche will most likely continue using high revving 6 and 4 cylinders as they switch to more hybrid models in future.
@@caseymurray7722 Porsche has stated already that the 911 will stay on liquid fuels and they are building a zero emissions fuel plant in Chile that will be quite competitive at the current fuel prices.
The rest of the lineup, i.e. the daily bread and butter (Cayenne, Macan, Panamera etc.) will follow the Taycan to be completely electric. For the european market, their range and features suffice.
A V3 is a more likely partner, nowadays. For better or worse.
Those things would be sick for motorcycles. Mount it directly in the rear wheel hub then just mount a battery on the front in the frame.
Love this content. A nerd likes me geeks out over the complexities in the explanations of the topics. Engineering is so cool. Way better than Medicine IMO.
What about bioengineering?
This is fun. But, medicine's nerdy as well - check out the ChubbyEmu channel for fun differential diagnosis, if you haven't
Beautiful scenery.. All you need is Pink Floyds "Time" blasting through those McLaren speakers.
😎
Which would be better for a small fully electric city car, a classic radial flux motor, or an axial one? From this video, it seems like there are hardly any downsides to using an axial flux electric motor on those types of cars.
in terms of packaging, the radial seems to win out. its a lot more flat, which means no "bump" in the boot that is hiding the motor.
I'd imagine you care a lot about price here, radial is cheaper to make.
94hp? thats really impressive. Imagine a small ecobox with that engine, you could fit more batteries and still keep a small package. Or a car with one of these for each wheel
Jason! Great informative video as always!!
Was actually curious if you still had your crosstrek. I am thinking about getting on in a few months, maybe you could give us a super long term review?? Regardless, keep up the awesome work!
Yep, still have it, 6 years old at this point and 50k miles on it. Love it. Only issues I've had are a wheel bearing (covered under warranty), and a brake switch recall. Great lil machine. :)
@@EngineeringExplained Just this morning i was waxing nostalgic for my ‘84 4WD (not AWD, no) wagon. It punched above its weight, to be sure.
Nice ride there! Sure glad you are back with full screen video! Some of us out here use computers to watch your shows.
Nice video. Flywheels are a means of storing energy. Could the rotors on axial flux motors function like flywheels?
No, due to induction. Faraday's Law.
Best video on this car I have seen. Thank you.
Does the IC actually rotate backwards when using the enlectric motor to reverse the car? Seems to me that might be hard on things like cam drive chains et all
Haha, no, there's a clutch that disconnects the engine from the motor. Only the motor is spinning in reverse.
Cool video on the technology of axial motor used in this super car. Glad they could wedge this powerful motor between the engine and transmission. However, why on earth is there a starter motor on the engine. Makes no sense .
The rpm limit on axial flux motors has mostly to due with the transverse force on the magnets
Did you get your Engineering degree from clown college?
@@csm153 As axial flux motors increase in rpms the rotor and permanent magnets have to resist the increasing shear forces.
For the first few minutes I thought this was a hub motor used on each wheel, I was excited. When I realized it's used behind an ICE my excitement dropped. It's still a fascinating vehicle and outstanding tech! 👏 😜
Hub motors stink. Too much unsprung weight.
@@bearclaw5115 Yes, as sprung weight, but they can be inboard on short shafts.
One problem with axial flux motors is cooling the rotor, which is not such a problem in hybrid applications where bursts of peak power are short, but is in full electric traction applications. The P1 motor as an internally water cooled rotor that means is has a very good peak vs continuous ratio!
If you look at the shots of just the motor, you can see the ports for the coolant to flow through the stator
I enjoy watching your videos and pretending I can comprehend what you are saying. Been impressed for years by your ability to simplify the engineering so its easier to understand. Thanks
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Yasa is the company in the UK which is known for championing axial motors. It seems strange that McLaren wouldn't have got it from them even though Mercedes bought them.
axial flux motors are so rad. Please continue making videos in a quieter environment. I appreciate that you get to drive around a sweet McLaren, but the background noise makes it harder to listen.
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Wow, I usually like all the videos of this channel, but what amazes me is the stats being recalled and internals being explained while driving the Sports car. Needs some level of internalisation to explain it to us this way. Thanks you and keep up the good work 👍
i suppose decently powerful axial flux motor + gearbox ( automatic or manual doesnt really matter ) is the key for fun and sportier driving EV. Can't wait to see it happening
i like your car reviews. you are able to articulate the tech and thus break down the performance of the car without resorting to cheap cliches like most car reviewers who come from creative backgrounds. a lot of times their cliches can even be questionable so i find this refreshing...i did click on the video to learn about the ins and outs of the axial flux motor, ngl. good stuff.
I'm looking forward to seeing this technology trickling down to affordable sports cars. Maybe we'll see a hybrid MR2 with the G16EGTS turbo 3 from Toyota mated to an axial flux motor for about 400 hp. Although personally I think 300 hp would be plenty if it stays under 3,000 lbs. Lightweight slow cars are always more fun than heavy fast cars.
Axial Flux motors rock!
Wonderful explanation of the axial electric motor!
120 degree v6! That's so rare.
A V8 has a 90 degree firing pulse that matches the 90 degree cylinder banks, a V6 has a 120 degree firing pulse which works easiest with 60 degree cylinder banks. This also makes the cylinders narrower which reduces the size penalty of DOHC engines that tend to be overly wide. A pushrod engine is much more compact but needs room for the camshaft in the V so those engines frequently are made with 90 degree cylinders. However with 90 degree cylinders they have to use offset crank pins in the crankshaft to achieve the actual 120 degree firing pulse.
Axial Flux motors generally have a North Pole facing a South on the opposite magnet rotor , with poles alternating from North to South around the rotors. The magnetic Flux generated circulates via an iron backing ring in the rotors back around through adjacent magnets, thus intensifying the the field strength.
The 120° vee layout of the engine would give a lower centre of gravity and its probably no coincidence that its equal to the phase angle of a 3phase motor.
I noticed the audio but honestly didn’t bother me. Love this car - looks better with a black roof imho. I’d daily the hell out of one of these. Great work as always Jason. Thanks.
We need this 90HP motor on ebikes! :D
Great video Jason, however im not really a fan of the talking while driving. I really prefer the whiteboard/garage videos to understand the concepts. Cheers my friend.
Why all the trouble with turbos and a transmission? Would really like to see a performance motor generator planetary gear system.
Hey! I know that road...been a while since I've driven it though. For those that don't recognize it, It's the road that runs around Lake Mead.
This is why I'm a big believer in PHEVs. I wish there were more options.
Very impressed, good job, I hope the corvette engineers are watching this
This is going to be amazing in a bike. Couple it with solid state batteries and zooooooom!!!!!
My 1983 antique boat has an axial flux motor. I might be the only person who upgraded a boat from radial flux to axial flux!
Very cool you got to experience those vehicle on the infield of the Las Vegas speedway! That's a fun little short track I've gotten to run some laps in myself!
I prefer my Jason videos with a white board and without the drone of an engine.
The big smile after every reving is amazing
another thing is that its possible to combine axial and radial flux motors into one. getting more than 2x the torque of a radial flux motor alone
Very attractive packaging, allowing the near-immediate AWD conversion of most Mid-Engine RWD Sports Cars with 1 motor per front hub assembly..
congrats man, from the board to the streets.
Your explanation of axial motors made the video worth watching despite the droning. I'd never heard of them.
It's the ones that play loud music while talking that drives me nuts. 😆 🤣
I love how this new Mclaren looks with that short wheelbase and small overhangs.
As solid state battery tech (and other close to production competitive battery tech) comes online to improve power density this kind of hybrid technology will only get better which I find exciting.
The primary reason for having a 120 degree V angle is balance: this is the most optimal configuration for a V6 to eliminate primary forces. I learned that from @driving4answers.
I always liked McLaren's style more than the other major sports/super car makers
You kinda have to wonder why they bothered with a turbo When the E motor has instant torque
The sections of windings outside of the stator are easier to cool than the ones inside - thinly coated copper in direct contact with the coolant medium as opposed to being enclosed in an iron channel but not in thermal contact with the channel wall
The throttle being switched on and off is driving me nuts, my father in law drives that way, he can’t find an ideal throttle to cruise, he switches it on and off like a light switch. Uggh
It’s crazy to me how the weight of top sports cars is now normally well over 3000lb. I can’t believe the C8 Z06 as awesome as it is, weighs almost the same as my full size SUV. It has made high hp a must. I miss the Colin Chapman ethos.
So that makes me curious about something that’s hard to sort out from online info, what engine configuration (# cylinders, displacement, layout, induction) has the best power and torque vs weight ratio? I’m including NA, turbo, blower, but if forced induction the weight has to include whatever extra pieces the FI requires over NA.
I believe it's the Koenigsegg inline 3
Honestly, unless it's an electric car, I wouldn't bother getting any "sports car" that easily weighs over 3300 pounds. At least with a electric sports car, all the weight is down low.
Theoretically, probably a highly tuned freevalve turboed V8/V12, think a combo of various Koenigsegg engines. Also, again hypothetically, to maximise power/talk-weight, you'd want this engine to be a direct injection 2 stroke.
I have always considered your Channel as "Food for mu Brain".
Chances are I didn't know the Information/context of your Video's beforehand, therefore I have learned something!
Always learning something new (not known Information or explanation) every day has always been my goal.
Appreciate you watching! :)
This is refreshing, he’s reviewing and not promoting the product
Dang I subbed to this channel like 8 phones ago, now it’s pushing over 3mill subs, and it’s still thoroughly entertaining👏
Thanks for sticking around! :)
@@EngineeringExplained any chance of putting mass in kilos in future videos? And N.m for torque as well would be nice for the majority of the world.
@0:14 you look like you driving on Mars
I have owned many exotics including Lambo, Maserati, Aston Martin. Porsche the closest to an exotic without the parts problems. I was a gearhead until owning Teslas and no maintenance. I own a Model X, 3, and Y. I still own a Porsche Panamera 4S just because. EV’s are already 700 -1000 horsepower whereas gas exotics are just moving art. My hearing is gone as too many loud things in past. I will stick with my one powertrain 1000 horsepower BEV. I charge at home with solar and save $600/month on home electricity and gas. No oil filters in land fills. Our kids are really entering the space age with all this new tech. McLaren’s are beautiful and they have jumped ahead of Ferrari, Porsche, and Lambo. Of course, Korneggsegg uses alien tech as cars are out of this world. Great video. Thx
Astonishing vehicle. Nobody does it better. Great Britain.
The real reason for the 120° bank angle: 120° is the natural crankshaft cylinder distribution for I3/V6 engines. For a V6 engine that doesn't use 120°, it needs to use offset crank pins.
Yes, shown at 7:57 in the video. But they're also using a balance shaft in the center due to it being 120º, so there are good reasons for other designs (boxer 6 has theoretically perfect balance).
I knew there was a different reason, just could't remember it
I like the pure electric mode.
You can use the car as a daily commuter or in down town, without making noise, pollution or wear the engine and then switch the engine on when you need the range or like to have fun.