I'm a 50 year old decorator and all of my customers are older than me because anyone younger than me can't afford aq house, let alone afford to get _someone else_ to paint it for them. One of my elderly customers was moaning that if they take her winter fuel allowance away then she will no longer be able to afford to steam the hay that she uses to feed her horses (plural).
@@andrewburman9469 I feel that I have successfully argued the point that any kind of handout to pensioners should indeed be means tested, because there is a very large proportion of that demographic which clearly doesn't _need_ free handouts 😘 My own mother lived in the south of Spain for 20 years (9 months a year) and was still getting a winter fuel payment until she moved back here a few years ago, and she's loaded.
Yeah I dunno why winter fuel allowance being means tested is such a taboo. I would get arguments about where the threshold to get it should be. But are many people who simply don't need it.
Pensioners are struggling, young people are struggling, middle aged people are struggling, everyone except for a few are struggling. Why do we fight amongst ourselves over scraps when we've seen the biggest wealth divide for generations?
I agree with you. Since Thatchers day, it's been a constant campaign to demonise every single group of people. There are so many people living a hand to mouth existence of all ages. The problem is our government, no matter what colour the rosette is. They have used division to a successful degree to pit groups against each other because of their fiscal incompetence
SOME people are struggling Some, clearly, are not. which means the obvious thing to do, when your resources are very limited, is to means test where your support should be delivered, and where it just should not
Just to put everything into context. In my area, the average house price is 11.5 times higher than a salary of £30,000 per year. Most people would love to earn £30,000 per year. This means the property in my area is 15.5 times higher than the living wage. To bring down to the 1970s/80's levels of 4-4.5 times, I need to earn £85,000 per year to get a house. And the older generation says it's easier 🙄
@@manvbees That's my dilemma. If I moved to where house prices are cheaper I wouldn't be paid as much or job prospects would be much worse. It's also not a desirable outcome for a cohesive society as this type of gentrification destroys communities.
The how shabang is a storm in a Tory media teacup. I passed amanwho appearedinhis80s in a nealy new Rolls Royce, and I thought how much willhe miss that? I have friends who are now mortgage free so when they reach SRP age will they need it? I also know lots of people who live day to day, and I know they definitely need it.There should also be some kind of way to stop people using foodbanks who don't need to, as I have also witnessed.
The fuel payment should be based on need not whether you are a pensioner, 😢so any household with an income under say £24,000 per annum should receive the allowance🎉
@@tom4626 You're absolutely right, a person of working age can't buy a house for peanuts, watch it exponentially appreciate in value and end up a millionaire. A person of working age doesn't enjoy the job security or wage growth that today's pensioners did when they were working. Pensioners have already pulled the ladder up on those of working age who are paying the highest tax burden in history to pay for their triple locked pensions which they themselves will never benefit from, because it'll be long gone by the time they retire.
Millennial here. I'm very much in favour of a social safety for everyone. However the fact that retirements for two generations are being funded by generations that likely won't be able to retire (I have no expectations of being able to) is an increasingly uncomfortable irony.
This is why immigrants are needed, to keep the infrastructures etc going and pay taxes, so that people can retire, as they deserve to. We have fewer and fewer children, and this is why there are not enough people to pay for retirees of the future. Now, it is easy to object that immigrants also have fewer children once they live here. Of course...but there will also be fewer retirees. Immigrants will allow Europe (as it is not just the UK) to have a smooth transition.
My generation (pensioners) are the richest demographic in the UK by a huge margin ! We benefited from cheap housing, final salary pensions, early retirement on full pension from public sector jobs, massive profits from house values, and a triple lock scheme which guaranteed bigger pension rises than workers pay rises. Not to mention unlimited free local public transport. And yet my contemporaries are whinging about losing a £200 energy payment when young parents can't feed or clothe their children.
The boomers elected Thatcher to get tax cuts. They were not concerned if the welfare state could look after their own elderly parents or grandparents. Now they are the needy elderly. And they demand more socialism , but just for the elderly
I will be of pension age in a few months and agree with you wholeheartedly. Our generation on the whole is demonstrating a total lack of empathy for the younger generation and the problem we are creating for them through our greed. Removing universal payment of WFA and linking it to need was/is absolutely the right thing to do.
They had free healthcare, free education, low house prices, free bus passes, cheap train fares, wages high enough for a single earner to support a family. Handout after hangout. Our NHS is decimated. Tuition fees through the roof. House prices far in excess of affordability for most people. Privatised public transport costing a fortune. Wages so low even people in full time work have to use food banks. It's unlikely that we'll even get a state pension if we even reach retirement age which keeps going up and up and up. Their generation has destroyed the planet. I don't feel any sympathy.
I think I would have more sympathy for pensioners if I didnt spend the last 20 years old my life being moaned at about being: Lazy, liberal, entitled or selfish. I don't have a work ethic becuase i wanted to go to university where as I should have just stayed in a factory job I did for a summer (something my grandmother told me almost 25 years ago). I spend too much on coffee, I spend too much on tattoos, I'm not getting promotions in my jobs so I'm not doing well enough, I shouldnt be out on strike for my public sector pay rise. So whats am I supposed to feel here? Do i know poor pensioners? Yes, my neighbor is one. Shes almost 90. I check on her, make sure shes ok, and she force feeds me home made bread in return. Shes not losing her winter payment, and she needs it. But for the rest? My own parents, late 60s early 70's with no mortgage, no debts, and the owners of a brand new Land rover they bought last year in cash because why not. Am I suppose to feel sorry for them and ones in their position? I suppose I would, if I and people my age didnt have the boot of the boomers pressed firmly into our necks, and didnt have to spend half our lives being told how utterly usless we where.
Grow up, Keir Stalin. Save us your moral outrage and dismissiveness. He talked about both sides of the issue, even pensioners who do deserve the credit, and used his own anecdotal evidence. Don’t try and act like this comment is completely meritless.
As well as answering a headline ending with a question mark with "no", if you read "You couldn't make it up" then the answer is "you have". What sticks in my craw is when pensioners (my own generation) say "I saved up and bought this house! Paid my mortgage on time and completed! These kids need to work harder and save up!" Sure - have you seen the house prices lately? The actual cost of living compared to wages? Even the interest rates on mortgages - if you qualify for one?
Just had this conversation with the in-laws this week. They were convinced where we live (South East) someone could buy a three-bed house for £200K. On average it is double that. They have absolutely no concept of what it's like out there today. Back in the early eighties, my dad was able to purchase a house at roughly £85K, he was the sole-provider and a family of four. I looked in up: the same house (which we ended up losing) is valued at £550K. My wife and I working between us on a combined salary of well more than his would have no chance in getting in on that, the way it is right now.
@Wiggle65 is not true. The ratio between salary and house value is a lot more today. In 1980, a property was about 4-5 times higher than the average wage. Now, it's 8-10 times. If you're on the national living wage, a cheap property of £220,000 would be 10× exactly. To be in line with the 80s of 4× you'd need to be earning £55,000 as a single salary
As a State Pensioner with no other assets than my brain and physique, despite my initial chagrin at the announcement, I quickly understood that this payment originally plausibly intended to subsidize my heating and winter health is in effect a subsidy to the already astronomical profits generated by the fossil fuel industry, for otherwise the reduction in winter demand would force prices down.
As a "Young person" I have 2 feelings about the fuel allowance debacle. Primarily there's the thought of an old lady sat alone, wrapped in blankets with no heating and barely any lights on, suffering the dreaded cold in some Dickensian vision of poverty and neglect. My own grandma lived on her own in a council flat until the day she died, and although our family would always drop in and visit and do the weekly shop for her spend hours and hours by her side, there is still the guilt of knowing that on some occasions she probably felt alone. That's just some guilt fed fantasy in the back of my mind though, and any pensioner in that kind of state will likely already be dependent on enough social welfare that they would immediately qualify for the heating allowance exemptions that have been stated. My other thought is the laughable idea that anybody from my generation would be entitled to any sort of heating allowance when we come of that age. The idea that my generation that continues to pay into the system and bear the most of the brunt from 14 years of austerity, and that will never be allowed to afford to own property, and who's retirement age will likely continue to inflate past 70 years, and still be found uneligable to receive a state pension, fuel allowance or any form of social welfare that today's pensioners can benifit from, has long settled in my mind. My generation will likely never benifit from what we pay into, as it is soo poorly mismanaged. But still, it's Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z that will continue to struggle and bear the burden, diligently ensuring that our current pensioners have the security that they paid into for their entire working lives.
@craighenthorn8759 You just had a chance to change that at a general election and you chose to vote for the uni party again. So nothing to complain about.
Pensioner here. Loaded. Winter payment? Give it to those who need it. Well done James for highlighting the nonsense that ALL the elderly are shivering in a Clacton bedsit.
I'm a UK pensioner who is resident in southern Portugal, but have been eligible for the Winter Fuel payment. There are a very large number of pensioners who are either resident in countries with warmer winters, or spend a significant proportion of the winter time out of the UK. We are most definitely NOT the people the policy was intended to benefit. Surely it must be possible to target those pensioners who are LEAST IN NEED and remove their eligibility.
@@jeremygough1387Your probably right. Labour can afford to do this as their voter base is more spread out. The Tories actually NEED pensioners to vote for them.
It's completely possible to see how many people in uk only get a state pension, and no other income from private pensions or savings, rents from properties etc. Tax office know who has second pensions, and saving over 12k etc as they tax them. If all you get is 13k it's already been means tested as the governments now and past have already said that the living wage in the UK is around 23k a year. So anything less than that and the Government says you can't live.
I am retired , there is no way on this earth that I or indeed any of my friends have assets worth anywhere near £1 million, I have m y state pension and a small NHS pension and they are added together and I pay income tax on the combined total. I was a single parent and I really struggled, could only start to pay into a pension in my later years, yes I have paid off my mortgage but I did that by initially doing two jobs and them later on by working extra shifts. I can't downsize, my house is a small as you can get, and is worth less than £130k . Never been on a cruise aside from the fact that I wouldn't' want to there is no way I could afford to. I was poor when I was young and I am not well off now I am old, and am a bit sick or this gross generalisation about older people. It is as bad as the reprehensible things that get said about young people. Was really fed up to hear James who I generally agree with suggesting Equity release as a solution, this can be fraught with difficulties. I have only had the WFA once, and guess what, I paid it straight into my energy account. Oh and where does James get the idea from that energy prices are falling, they have just gone up by 10% . I also think that young people have been really badly treated, the lack of affordable housing and the horrific cost of rent shocks me. Brexit was dreadful, zero hours contracts are awful. the cost of higher education is prohibitive. Please stop pitting th genrations against each other.
At 82 on pension credits I have an easy time financially & Labour have said they will increase Pension Credits & search out those not getting it who need it. People on this large London Council Estate are young working mothers & a lot of young people. A young person was saying to me three days ago old people are thirty times better off on average. I will check with her again for more details. But she was outraged at all this fuss made over the old quoting her & her younger friends poverty. I'd argue the most important thing Labour have done for the old is increase the wages--or offer to do so--for the NHS. FLASH NEWS. Older people need the NHS & other services more as they age.
As a young person, I am tempted to say that I simply don't care about this winter fuel payment withdrawal. Where has the support been for us trying to get on the housing ladder? I am fully aware that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but how long are my generation supposed to continue to foot the bill? Is it just a case of "just let us have it until we die"?
My generation (pensioners) are the richest demographic in the UK by a huge margin ! We benefited from cheap housing, final salary pensions, early retirement on full pension from public sector jobs, massive profits from house values, and a triple lock scheme which guaranteed bigger pension rises than workers pay rises. And yet my contemporaries are whinging about losing a £200 energy payment when young parents can't feed or clothe their children.
It is interesting that pensioners are continually put on a pedestal to be protected, when demographics that are poorer and just as vulnerable get forgotten about in the media cycle so quickly. How quickly did we all stop talking about targeting the disabled, for example?
James, it’s not about looking after older people over younger people or vice versa. Both should be treated with equal dignity through an economy that puts people before profit for the richest. The taxation of the winter fuel allowance could have been used to ensure those who can afford it don’t get a payment they don’t need. There are older people who are getting the full state pension and nothing else. For them, not being eligible for Pension Credit, they will struggle with winter fuel bills, (together with higher food and energy costs today). Gary Stevenson whom you have previously interviewed has indicated that vast swathes of wealth have transferred to the richest people in the country during the pandemic. The rich have used this pandemic profit to buy up assets, especially housing, which has caused housing to become unaffordable for younger generations. He has set out a model for a wealth tax to redistribute this additional wealth using it to rebuild infrastructure. Why are Labour not even considering this option? My guess is that they do not want to upset their wealthy donors. I do believe we will see an increase in the deaths of older people this winter.
Are you aware of every economic idea that has been considered by the current government? Do you expect them to publicly mention every possible idea that they may have discussed? We all have our own opinions on our preferred economic model, but I don't expect the government to explain to me why they might have rejected my favourite option.
I am a pensioner and I have no assets and work a couple of days a week. I earn enough to keep myself afloat and can cope without a winter fuel payment. I'd rather they target me than my sons who have been shafted by us boomers. I'm most annoyed they aren't going after the truly rich.
Watching Britain from afar, I applaud your decision to vote in Boris Johnson instead of Jeremy Corbyn, And then to have got rid of him for Keir Starmer, brilliant.
Im 27 and the hardest thing is the lack of common sense, Those who need the help should receive it, those who don't can pat themselves on the back for working hard and not have to rely on the state for anything other than your bins being collected. Because it absolutely does feel like a hamster wheel, if after 50/60 odd years of being an Electrician means ill still have to claim pensioners credits, ill find a patch of forest and live my days with the bugs now.
As a pensioner who owns my little flat which I bought a year and a half ago for 170000 & ( and it's the cheapest I could get in my area) I will be affected by the cut., as my income is just few pounds above the pension credit limit - not to the extent of dying from hypothermia, I will just go to the central library reading room for if it really gets too cold, but I will be affected. I like talking to young people and talking with a young man he asked me what would I do in this position if I was 25 instead of 75. The immediate answer was, at that age, I would sell the flat, pack up my art supplies and go travelling - I did spent some time in my youth travelling and supporting myself by selling quick pen and ink or watercolour sketches on the streets. But this option is not practical at 75, I don't have the stamina and I need my health centre nearby. I don't object to the fuel allowance being mean tested but I think that there should be a sliding scale, with a cut off point at say 20000 pounds income being a cut off point. You have to remember that the value of the houses varies incredibly between different areas and you don't want to uproot yourself from all your support systems in your seventies
This policy is a just policy for what pensioners have done to younger generations through their political choices of the last 14 years, They don't deserve a penny for their ignorance.
Why aren’t people more outraged about the increase ,what is it?, 82 million up to 150 Million for one family that definitely doesn’t need it, where’s the outrage about this???
Most of the elderly I know of used this allowance for paying for christmas presents or a fancy dinner or even towards a holiday. Because they can already afford to heat their homes by virtue of having no rent to pay as they own their homes. If you own your own home and are retired then you can absolutely afford to pay for heating. Especially if you don't live up past idk Birmingham.
@@Chris-oz9qx no, I just think that if pensioners over whelmingly voted those clowns in for the last 14 years then they are responsible and should have to suffer the consequences, like all of us working classes have had to
66% of pensioners own their own homes outright and as such have no rent or mortgage, their outgoings are much lower than those of any working age person. And yet they have the gaul to feel entitled to handouts, while simultaneously berrating the younger generations for wanting even half the opportunities they had
@@MrDanlancelotBasic statistics also tell us that the mortgage free houses that pensioners live in are inherited by younger generations in the families when the pensioners pass on. You have to factor that into it too.
We all get moaned at for not giving up coffee, well I'm going to need that caffeine if I'm expected to work till I die. A luxury that the current pensioners have not had to even consider. I'll be doing so with no security of a home that I own. No security of a family to look after me because I can't afford one. No security as it currently stands of an NHS that's viable. No security of an infrastructure, water/ heat, that's sound and I can afford to use. And no option to leave and find a better life because I can no longer go sun it up in Spain instead like so many pensioners receiving the heating allowance that I 100% will not receive when I'm their age. At what point do they consider how future pensioners, the ones contributing now, will survive?
I just became eligible for my State Pension, which I was invited to apply for. (Yes it is classed as a benefit, whether you like it or not) I was amazed to learn that I would have normally been entitled to a WFP. I’m not wealthy by any means but I do live rent free in my house (mortgage paid off) I am content that the dial has been turned slightly towards younger generations who can only dream of having a roof over their head and their children well nourished and receiving a better education in schools that are not falling on their heads.
the way I see baby boomers bossing around millennials in the service industry, without a tip in sight, is a disgrace. They're often so entitled and yes there are exceptions- we see some here.
Means testing benefits is more expensive than having them be universal and inevitably harms those who fall just above the arbitrary cutoff thresholds to be in receipt of those benefits. The best way to recoup money from those who are wealthy and don't strictly require that financial assistance is through the tax system.
😂 thank you. When you said young people with all the can't get housing etc...I was like I am 49 and can't either...and then you roped me in with the young people 🥰
Nonsense. Just give every pensioner the same thing and then tax the rich. That’s how you stop a millionaire pensioner from getting stuff they don’t need. You give it, and then take it away. We have structures for all that already.
The Daily Mail .....I call it the 'tut tut ,isn't it terrible' rag. Journalism to gain clickbait and enrage, usually against things that aren't the root cause of our real problems.
Why dont we help young people thay cant afford houdong rather than home owners. Who literally coukd downsize and move because the bought a house for 10000 and its worth in the millions now.
If 25% are sat on at least a million, imagine when you drop 100k each time and what that percentage number goes up to. There are a lot of pensioners with more than £400k
I've never understood what all the crowing and whining about cutting the allowance was about anyway - all it has done is made a benefit means tested, just like all the others. If you fall the wrong side of the line, that's what an appeals process is for. To all those who have spent the last few years complaining that we need to cut benefits, that's exactly what is being done. You can't then moan about it when it directly affects you - you got your wish, you should be happy.
I think the true irony of the state of the wealth distribution in this country is that if these pensioners sold their assets they would very quickly come to realise how bad the housing market truly is.
As someone who lived through austerity being told 'tighten your belts' and watched public services and opportunities in the nation being hollowed out, I'm now not that sympathetic by it being means tested, because if you need it you'll still get it. Tighten your belts 👍
No it does not - this is nonsense spread by those who oppose means testing. The government already has all the information that it needs on the nominal value of your property, your savings, income etc. Computer algorithm execution time costs next to nothing.
If true, then at least it is a fairer system? Child benefit is in a way means tested. Do similar as those better off will be paying tax. There has to be a way. Other benefits are means tested for most age groups. Care costs are! If fairness costs then so be it in my book
Unfortunately my mum is one of those on the cusp: over the limit for pension credit by £5 a month! I've pushed her to try and my sister has, too. But she's one of many who say "no point, I won't get it"
My parents are pensioners, between them they get 2 old age pensions, an RAF pension and a civil service pension. i’ve asked them before if financially they are okay or if they need any help, they’ve told me they’ve never been better off. Their Facebook feeds are full of Memes about how evil starmer is for taking away their fuel allowance, and I’ve asked them if they actually need it, the answer is “no but that’s not the point”. 🤦♂️
I'm approaching pension age and definitely should not be getting a winter fuel payment ! The catch is not whether it should be means tested but how that means testing is implemented. There will be some pensioners who are not eligible for Pension Credit but fall well short of the £1m net worth who will suffer without the £300. So perhaps a sensible idea badly implemented??
CORRECTION - £500 weekly test is no longer correct. Pension credit eligibility is the main criteria, which you get with an income lower than £218 pw. On this basis, a means test threshold should be introduced above this cutoff for eligibility. Wish people would stop saying "all but the poorest" re. pensioners and fuel allowance. Its approx £500 a week income for the means test. That is way above earnings where you are NOT eligible for ANY universal credit.
The means test threshold to get pension credit is £218 per week. State pension is £221 per week. No pensioners getting new state pension qualify for pension credit and consequently lose WFA.
All I can say is that its about time that the playing field was levelled. The feathering of the older generation's nests at the expense of the young is despicable.
678 properties available on Rightmove with 2+ bedrooms up to £250k in my city, Bristol. The statement 'I can't afford to buy a house' is never finished with 'in the area I want to live'. First time buyers seem to have entitlement that they should be able to live in the best areas with bars, restaurants and other facilities on a tree lined doorstep.
I like how liberals reveal their conservative mindsets when it comes to pensioners. What’s next, James. Are we going to call the asylum seekers a bunch of invading criminals when Starmer’s starts up his own n Rwanda scheme?
As Phil Ochs said about liberals " 10 degrees to the left of center in the best of times, 10 degrees to the right of centre when it affects them personally"
People are fed up with all the wealthy old people trying to justify why already wealthy people should get more free money. How about some help for the actual working people instead?
The pensioners should just stop going to bingo with their pals and doing whatever pensioners find enjoyable as they expect the younger generations to do in order to buy a house.
@@jeffsimon9594 The Tories are still very relevant given they were in charge for the last 14 years and we're still reeling from and suffering through the policies of Thatcher from the 80's. These kind of things don't change over night. It takes years, sometimes decades. Labour have already outlined some 10 year plans to fix things that have been totally broken by the last lot. They're being realistic about things and not just lying to everyones faces because they want to hear platitudes.
I'm not at all surprised by the millionaire pensioner statistic, you only have to look at the success of cruise ships and look at the demographic of the people on them to see how affluent the average pensioner is. Sure there will be some poor pensioners too but the job of government should be to effectively target the poorest with the help they need and not just pensioners.
The 13 million pensioners in the UK have seen an average annual increase in pensions of 3.83% since 2010 (10.1% increase in 23/24). Eligible benefits include: State Pension, Pension credit, Winter fuel payment, Attendance Allowance, Council Tax Reduction, Housing benefit, Free bus pass, Free TV licence, Cold Weather payment and Warm home discount (one off). 75% of pensioners own their home outright. 27% own assets worth more that £1million. Not figures or information that the Daily Mail or Daily Express will ever share.
Whether pensioners as a group are wealthy or not, the fact is that the winter fuel issue will most affect those who are not wealthy or even comfortable. The issue for me is why go after this perceived problem when the glaring inequality/unfairness issue in the developed world these days is the widening income distribution gap? Why leave alone the obscenely wealthy whose resources do NOT trickle down, and whose affluence is primarily the product of asset hoarding?
I'm 23 and i say if pensioners save and scrimp. I have to work very hard to afford my heating. So if they tighten their belts pull their boot staps up and get to work rather than spending their money on Werther's originals, cigarettes and going on expensive holidays
Living in a household with combined wealth is very different from personally owning wealth. VERY few pensioners are personal millionaires, and many are relatively poor!
Respect for asking questions, no one else dares to. Obviously my answer would be I see zero reason why payments to well off pensioners should ever be treated as higher priority than a whole list of other problems this country is struggling with atm.
Just because a pensioner lives in a house worth a million pounds, it doesn’t mean that that have a huge disposable income. Many pensioners bought their home before property prices exploded. In the 1970s that would have been around £30 - 40k.
Im 64 & get £360 per month to live on,I cannot retire until I’m 67. I’m sure due to huge increase of house prices then their are pensioners with massive asset of their home. But what about the many living in council houses on one of the lowest pensions in Europe.
I'm a retired mental health nurse with a decent pension. I haver no problems with this government gift being taken away, and it would be disengenuous to pretend otherwise.
thank james for some sanity. the only prob w the means testing winter fuel is its slightly to low a threshold. thats not whats being descussed n its driving me nuts. also shows like gmb ect if they cared wud be doing a huge drive t get those entitled onto p'credit n then keep asking mp's t look at the threshold. its not its just being used as red meat
When my mother hits retirement age next year she will be a few quid above the weekly limit to claim pension credit. She would lose £300 a year on winter fuel AND help with her housing costs (she rents). As you say, this isn't what people are discussing, the people who you'd expect to do it are too busy protecting the interests of those who probably shouldn't get it. For their first big announcement... Labour really picked a doozey.
@@SgtWilko1979 definatly. its madening that the onlypeople t sufferfrom this policy are being ignored. come winter it'lbe too late to get it right . we need t up the benifits level inline w the cost of staying alive during winter and get all the elderly on wgat they are entitled to. im worried all this click bait is doing more harm than propperly making sure its done right
As a side point based on my own anecdotal observations. How many houses, that would in the estate agent advert be described as a "family home", are presently occupied by one or two people over the age of 65?
Regardless of whether pensioners can or cannot afford to pay for their heating bills, Starmer is rubbing their noses in it by accepting all his free gifts and clothing. That’s more shocking!!
Another fact for you James. According to the last Census in 2021, 75% of pensioners own their home outright. Therefore have no rent or mortgage payments to cover.
But when we did have mortgages the rate went up to around 15%. We didn't spend fortunes on phones, streaming services, foreign holidays, vast amounts on alcohol and drugs or get into debt. If you couldn't afford something you just didn't have it. You either saved up for it or went without. Maybe people in London have assets of £1,000,000 because of the value of property there but that is laughable anywhere else. Many still pay tax because small private pensions push them into tax rates. By the way, do not believe polls.
@@wendywebster5351 the convenient part of this mortgage rates argument is you don't have to give figures, 15% of naff all is still naff all 😂and I'm sorry but if you honestly think younger generations are "spending fortunes" on those things you honestly need to put the newspapers down
@@Snjallr yes but we had naff all wages as well. Just go out in any city any day, and not just weekends, and you will see exactly what the young spend. Also we had no banks of mum and dad that let us lounge about at home playing online games until we found the right job that would use the massive talents that our media studies degree would get us - after our gap year in Thailand of course.
@@wendywebster5351 this is just a sweeping generalisation and obviously not true, do you have any original thoughts? Or just going to parrot what the newspapers tell you?
Kind of irrelevant because housing benefit will cover rent separately to pensions etc. I am on the side of we shoukd cut the payment, but unless you have an outstanding mortgage it won't affect you. A lot of pensioners who own their own homes might well be asset rich but cash poor, especially if one partner has passed away. In which case they should sell up and downsize.
Pensioners can be divided into the *'Haves'* and the *'Have Nots.'* Wealthy pensioners are taxed, and thus the Winter Fuel Payments are recouped via taxation. *HOWEVER, in the 'have nots' category, this payment can mean the difference between life and death.* Already over 13,500 pensioners pass away each Winter because they cannot afford to heat their homes and to eat enough. Taking this benefit away from old and vulnerable people, many of whom are either not eligible for Pension Credit, or are not computer literate, or don't own either a computer or a smartphone - amounts to a death sentence for many older people.
I think the problem is houses are included within that net worth, but we live in a country where it's seen as something that must be passed on to the next generation and the wealth it's created has been earned. No, if you can't afford to live and have a 500k house, you've got a problem and should sell and buy a smaller home. No you didn't "earn" this wealth, you bought a home 40 years ago for
...as a young person, I'd rather give them the £1.5billion it would cost to do it, rather than have them vote for fascists in a few years time. Small beans to my mind relative to wider problems.
Again, James totally misses the point. No one saying that wealthy pensioners shouldn’t be stopped the winter fuel payment. It’s the pensioner that only has an income of 13,000 to 20,000 that this payment is Important to their finances. Increasing the personal allowance would help Maybe to £13,000-£14,000.
This divisivness needs to stop. Everybody is struggling young and old. Yes some pensioners are wealthy but its not the majority. Many are still paying tax and may own their home but have to maintain it and when they need any form of care have to pay for it
If I had the money as a pensioner to pay my bills easily without losing any money why would I need the winter fuel allowance. But if I was finding it tough with my pension then I would appreciate it no end. That's all that there is really. If you need it then get it. If you don't need it then you don't get it. I'm sure many retired people spend winter time in warmer climates.
I didn't know about this because after the pandemic and Boris I stay away from the news. As always thanks to LBC for the update. Everyone stay safe and well 👍
Are they really lazy bigots James? That's a very nasty accusation to be throwing around, consider this, most people, myself included, left school at 16, despite attending the local grammar and getting 9 GCE Olevels, my family could not afford to send me to 6th form college or university so work it was with day release and night school an extra 11 hours on top of 4 days at work, I eventually bought my own home and have just finished paying for it, so am I to give it to some youngster fresh out of college?
The problem as far as I can see is that this new policy ignores those just above the poverty limit. They are being penalised while the wealthier tax payers are just doing fine. They may be a minority but this loss is large for them. A lot larger and harder than a tiny tax raise for the wealthy. It is not what I expected from the Labour Party. They should have made the qualifying limit higher. I think James either ignored or missed the point here.
@@manvbees because I want HMRC to be able to actively engage in revenue gathering and monitoring rather than waste time on rounding errors. I can halve enforcement costs while untaxing the majority of the country and punishing the lazy children of the rich. if you think tax stifles ambition you've only met mediocre ambitions.
The issue isn't the policy, the policy is right in principle and right to ensure that rich pensioners don't get a benefits hand out they don't need, there is a very fair discussion about where the cut off point is at the bottom, but obviously pension credits means you aren't adding layers of admin to this But to every pensioner who screams to the young, you can't afford things because you don't budget properly, to save this cut and have it, just lose £5.78 from your weekly food shop and you're done, you'll have the £300 back. #
About time we stopped giving handouts to the generation that has received every favour imaginable until now. I understand not all of the relevant people are rich beyond belief but I don’t think we should be doing favours for a group that has far higher levels of wealth than others, whilst young people are forced to take the hit
Honestly we just need a pension that pensioners can live on without needing these additional hand outs. Everyone can get behind pensions but the second you start adding additional payments to anyone in society it starts getting nasty. My mum and dad were receiving it but won't do anymore - and they simply don't need it. My mum said she'd usually just spend that money on Christmas presents for the family - it was needed though. Why should they get it? They shouldn't. Just sort pensions, all pensioners get it.
I'm a 50 year old decorator and all of my customers are older than me because anyone younger than me can't afford aq house, let alone afford to get _someone else_ to paint it for them.
One of my elderly customers was moaning that if they take her winter fuel allowance away then she will no longer be able to afford to steam the hay that she uses to feed her horses (plural).
Totally agree. Total and complete detachment with reality... this is sad to read.
It's hard to imagine why anyone would make such a ridiculous comment.
@@andrewburman9469 I feel that I have successfully argued the point that any kind of handout to pensioners should indeed be means tested, because there is a very large proportion of that demographic which clearly doesn't _need_ free handouts 😘
My own mother lived in the south of Spain for 20 years (9 months a year) and was still getting a winter fuel payment until she moved back here a few years ago, and she's loaded.
@wavydavy9816 haha steaming Hay. Amazing. In 18th century France these people would have had their heads removed from their bodies
Yeah I dunno why winter fuel allowance being means tested is such a taboo. I would get arguments about where the threshold to get it should be. But are many people who simply don't need it.
Pensioners are struggling, young people are struggling, middle aged people are struggling, everyone except for a few are struggling.
Why do we fight amongst ourselves over scraps when we've seen the biggest wealth divide for generations?
What do you want to do, fight rich people? Grow up kid.
@@jaybee4288I want to tax multinational corporations.
I agree with you. Since Thatchers day, it's been a constant campaign to demonise every single group of people. There are so many people living a hand to mouth existence of all ages. The problem is our government, no matter what colour the rosette is. They have used division to a successful degree to pit groups against each other because of their fiscal incompetence
@@jaybee4288 Would you extrapolate on your comment please? Seems a little pathetic and you need to explain yourself.
SOME people are struggling
Some, clearly, are not.
which means the obvious thing to do, when your resources are very limited, is to means test where your support should be delivered, and where it just should not
Just to put everything into context. In my area, the average house price is 11.5 times higher than a salary of £30,000 per year. Most people would love to earn £30,000 per year. This means the property in my area is 15.5 times higher than the living wage. To bring down to the 1970s/80's levels of 4-4.5 times, I need to earn £85,000 per year to get a house. And the older generation says it's easier 🙄
I earn over 40k a year. To buy a run down 2 bedroom flat in the area I grew up would cost £500k.
@@edmann1820 so 12.5 of your salary. But you could give up daily coffee worth £500,000 for that 🤣
@edmann1820 it's not a shock that people have to move to where houses are cheaper or job prospects are better.
@@manvbees That's my dilemma. If I moved to where house prices are cheaper I wouldn't be paid as much or job prospects would be much worse. It's also not a desirable outcome for a cohesive society as this type of gentrification destroys communities.
The how shabang is a storm in a Tory media teacup. I passed amanwho appearedinhis80s in a nealy new Rolls Royce, and I thought how much willhe miss that? I have friends who are now mortgage free so when they reach SRP age will they need it? I also know lots of people who live day to day, and I know they definitely need it.There should also be some kind of way to stop people using foodbanks who don't need to, as I have also witnessed.
The fuel payment should be based on need not whether you are a pensioner, 😢so any household with an income under say £24,000 per annum should receive the allowance🎉
One of the only sensible comments on this whole conversation.
There’s a huge difference between a pensioners situation vs a person of working age.
The government’s criteria is if you can afford to pay then you do not get the allowance so the collorally is if you can’t you do
YES. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
@@tom4626 You're absolutely right, a person of working age can't buy a house for peanuts, watch it exponentially appreciate in value and end up a millionaire. A person of working age doesn't enjoy the job security or wage growth that today's pensioners did when they were working. Pensioners have already pulled the ladder up on those of working age who are paying the highest tax burden in history to pay for their triple locked pensions which they themselves will never benefit from, because it'll be long gone by the time they retire.
Millennial here.
I'm very much in favour of a social safety for everyone.
However the fact that retirements for two generations are being funded by generations that likely won't be able to retire (I have no expectations of being able to) is an increasingly uncomfortable irony.
Who do you think funded everything you see around you?
This is why immigrants are needed, to keep the infrastructures etc going and pay taxes, so that people can retire, as they deserve to. We have fewer and fewer children, and this is why there are not enough people to pay for retirees of the future.
Now, it is easy to object that immigrants also have fewer children once they live here. Of course...but there will also be fewer retirees. Immigrants will allow Europe (as it is not just the UK) to have a smooth transition.
@@joloholo4060 the parents of the pension age generation, considering all the buildings are 60 years old and falling apart
@@joloholo4060 We all do, we all pay taxes. Every benefit should be means tested. There should not be an exemption purely based on age.
we paid in aswel
My generation (pensioners) are the richest demographic in the UK by a huge margin ! We benefited from cheap housing, final salary pensions, early retirement on full pension from public sector jobs, massive profits from house values, and a triple lock scheme which guaranteed bigger pension rises than workers pay rises. Not to mention unlimited free local public transport. And yet my contemporaries are whinging about losing a £200 energy payment when young parents can't feed or clothe their children.
Your ok so f the rest of them.
The boomers elected Thatcher to get tax cuts. They were not concerned if the welfare state could look after their own elderly parents or grandparents.
Now they are the needy elderly. And they demand more socialism , but just for the elderly
@@ohk749They said their generation not them personally. Every thing stated was true as well
Unemployment benefit is £80 and pension is £220, tell me why you expect younger people to survive on that? Is this not reverse ageism?
I will be of pension age in a few months and agree with you wholeheartedly. Our generation on the whole is demonstrating a total lack of empathy for the younger generation and the problem we are creating for them through our greed. Removing universal payment of WFA and linking it to need was/is absolutely the right thing to do.
You mean the right wing framing of the. Issue was a lie? No way
🎯
They had free healthcare, free education, low house prices, free bus passes, cheap train fares, wages high enough for a single earner to support a family. Handout after hangout. Our NHS is decimated. Tuition fees through the roof. House prices far in excess of affordability for most people. Privatised public transport costing a fortune. Wages so low even people in full time work have to use food banks. It's unlikely that we'll even get a state pension if we even reach retirement age which keeps going up and up and up. Their generation has destroyed the planet. I don't feel any sympathy.
i wouldnt want you on my quizteam
@@derektaylor9056 hate winning, do you?
I think I would have more sympathy for pensioners if I didnt spend the last 20 years old my life being moaned at about being: Lazy, liberal, entitled or selfish. I don't have a work ethic becuase i wanted to go to university where as I should have just stayed in a factory job I did for a summer (something my grandmother told me almost 25 years ago). I spend too much on coffee, I spend too much on tattoos, I'm not getting promotions in my jobs so I'm not doing well enough, I shouldnt be out on strike for my public sector pay rise.
So whats am I supposed to feel here? Do i know poor pensioners? Yes, my neighbor is one. Shes almost 90. I check on her, make sure shes ok, and she force feeds me home made bread in return. Shes not losing her winter payment, and she needs it. But for the rest? My own parents, late 60s early 70's with no mortgage, no debts, and the owners of a brand new Land rover they bought last year in cash because why not. Am I suppose to feel sorry for them and ones in their position?
I suppose I would, if I and people my age didnt have the boot of the boomers pressed firmly into our necks, and didnt have to spend half our lives being told how utterly usless we where.
Grow up, Keir Stalin. Save us your moral outrage and dismissiveness. He talked about both sides of the issue, even pensioners who do deserve the credit, and used his own anecdotal evidence. Don’t try and act like this comment is completely meritless.
@KierStalin With a username like that, don't expect anyone to take a word of what you say seriously.
@KierStalinI always enjoy your contributions mate keep them up 👍
So much envy and spite dressed up in self-serving moralism.
@KierStalin He didn't. Try reading until the end.
As well as answering a headline ending with a question mark with "no", if you read "You couldn't make it up" then the answer is "you have".
What sticks in my craw is when pensioners (my own generation) say "I saved up and bought this house! Paid my mortgage on time and completed! These kids need to work harder and save up!" Sure - have you seen the house prices lately? The actual cost of living compared to wages? Even the interest rates on mortgages - if you qualify for one?
Just had this conversation with the in-laws this week. They were convinced where we live (South East) someone could buy a three-bed house for £200K. On average it is double that. They have absolutely no concept of what it's like out there today.
Back in the early eighties, my dad was able to purchase a house at roughly £85K, he was the sole-provider and a family of four. I looked in up: the same house (which we ended up losing) is valued at £550K. My wife and I working between us on a combined salary of well more than his would have no chance in getting in on that, the way it is right now.
@@MonsieurJimjams I'd have to earn 85k per year in my area for 80's style 4x the salary for a property
But... if you cancelled Netflix you could save enough... in another 20yrs
@SgtWilko1979 🤣. In 20 years that's a saving of ...... wait for it....... £2,637.60. Worth it 👌 🤣
The mortgage they paid on a £85,000 was not paid on the rate of wages today, wages would've been a lot less, did that not cross your mind???
@Wiggle65 is not true. The ratio between salary and house value is a lot more today. In 1980, a property was about 4-5 times higher than the average wage. Now, it's 8-10 times. If you're on the national living wage, a cheap property of £220,000 would be 10× exactly. To be in line with the 80s of 4× you'd need to be earning £55,000 as a single salary
As a State Pensioner with no other assets than my brain and physique, despite my initial chagrin at the announcement, I quickly understood that this payment originally plausibly intended to subsidize my heating and winter health is in effect a subsidy to the already astronomical profits generated by the fossil fuel industry, for otherwise the reduction in winter demand would force prices down.
Just as working tax credits and housing benefits are subsidies for cheapskate employers and greedy landlords.
This is correct. I've been amazed throughout that I haven't heard this mentioned at all
As a "Young person" I have 2 feelings about the fuel allowance debacle.
Primarily there's the thought of an old lady sat alone, wrapped in blankets with no heating and barely any lights on, suffering the dreaded cold in some Dickensian vision of poverty and neglect.
My own grandma lived on her own in a council flat until the day she died, and although our family would always drop in and visit and do the weekly shop for her spend hours and hours by her side, there is still the guilt of knowing that on some occasions she probably felt alone.
That's just some guilt fed fantasy in the back of my mind though, and any pensioner in that kind of state will likely already be dependent on enough social welfare that they would immediately qualify for the heating allowance exemptions that have been stated.
My other thought is the laughable idea that anybody from my generation would be entitled to any sort of heating allowance when we come of that age.
The idea that my generation that continues to pay into the system and bear the most of the brunt from 14 years of austerity, and that will never be allowed to afford to own property, and who's retirement age will likely continue to inflate past 70 years, and still be found uneligable to receive a state pension, fuel allowance or any form of social welfare that today's pensioners can benifit from, has long settled in my mind.
My generation will likely never benifit from what we pay into, as it is soo poorly mismanaged.
But still, it's Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z that will continue to struggle and bear the burden, diligently ensuring that our current pensioners have the security that they paid into for their entire working lives.
@craighenthorn8759 You just had a chance to change that at a general election and you chose to vote for the uni party again. So nothing to complain about.
@@jaybee4288 🤖
Sorry explain. Uni party?@@jaybee4288
The Romans had this kind of conversation. Every generation thinks they are put upon.
Pensioner here. Loaded. Winter payment? Give it to those who need it. Well done James for highlighting the nonsense that ALL the elderly are shivering in a Clacton bedsit.
"Loaded." Yes you are Jimbo's main target audience.
It's right that you lose your allowance but not all pensioners are "loaded".
@@rb1062 4 out of 5 are.
Perhaps you should give some of your wealth to less fortunate? Ummm I thought not
@@PleiadesImprezaT2000AWD-l4lyes they earned it paid their taxes have some respect for Gods sake
I'm a UK pensioner who is resident in southern Portugal, but have been eligible for the Winter Fuel payment. There are a very large number of pensioners who are either resident in countries with warmer winters, or spend a significant proportion of the winter time out of the UK. We are most definitely NOT the people the policy was intended to benefit. Surely it must be possible to target those pensioners who are LEAST IN NEED and remove their eligibility.
My folks don't need it either. Guessing the policy was a bribe/vote winner.
@@jeremygough1387Your probably right. Labour can afford to do this as their voter base is more spread out. The Tories actually NEED pensioners to vote for them.
It's completely possible to see how many people in uk only get a state pension, and no other income from private pensions or savings, rents from properties etc. Tax office know who has second pensions, and saving over 12k etc as they tax them. If all you get is 13k it's already been means tested as the governments now and past have already said that the living wage in the UK is around 23k a year. So anything less than that and the Government says you can't live.
I am retired , there is no way on this earth that I or indeed any of my friends have assets worth anywhere near £1 million, I have m y state pension and a small NHS pension and they are added together and I pay income tax on the combined total. I was a single parent and I really struggled, could only start to pay into a pension in my later years, yes I have paid off my mortgage but I did that by initially doing two jobs and them later on by working extra shifts. I can't downsize, my house is a small as you can get, and is worth less than £130k . Never been on a cruise aside from the fact that I wouldn't' want to there is no way I could afford to. I was poor when I was young and I am not well off now I am old, and am a bit sick or this gross generalisation about older people. It is as bad as the reprehensible things that get said about young people. Was really fed up to hear James who I generally agree with suggesting Equity release as a solution, this can be fraught with difficulties. I have only had the WFA once, and guess what, I paid it straight into my energy account. Oh and where does James get the idea from that energy prices are falling, they have just gone up by 10% . I also think that young people have been really badly treated, the lack of affordable housing and the horrific cost of rent shocks me. Brexit was dreadful, zero hours contracts are awful. the cost of higher education is prohibitive. Please stop pitting th genrations against each other.
So you'll probably be entitled to the payments right?
ahhh you dont like stats because its not what you see. learn some basic logic eh?
Totally this 👆
At 82 on pension credits I have an easy time financially & Labour have said they will increase Pension Credits & search out those not getting it who need it. People on this large London Council Estate are young working mothers & a lot of young people. A young person was saying to me three days ago old people are thirty times better off on average. I will check with her again for more details. But she was outraged at all this fuss made over the old quoting her & her younger friends poverty. I'd argue the most important thing Labour have done for the old is increase the wages--or offer to do so--for the NHS. FLASH NEWS. Older people need the NHS & other services more as they age.
JACKANORY
As a young person, I am tempted to say that I simply don't care about this winter fuel payment withdrawal. Where has the support been for us trying to get on the housing ladder? I am fully aware that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but how long are my generation supposed to continue to foot the bill? Is it just a case of "just let us have it until we die"?
My generation (pensioners) are the richest demographic in the UK by a huge margin ! We benefited from cheap housing, final salary pensions, early retirement on full pension from public sector jobs, massive profits from house values, and a triple lock scheme which guaranteed bigger pension rises than workers pay rises. And yet my contemporaries are whinging about losing a £200 energy payment when young parents can't feed or clothe their children.
It is interesting that pensioners are continually put on a pedestal to be protected, when demographics that are poorer and just as vulnerable get forgotten about in the media cycle so quickly. How quickly did we all stop talking about targeting the disabled, for example?
It’s not about them, it’s about the pensioners. Crazy the lack of respect you all have for your elders shame on you.
@@jaybee4288 Why do my elders inherently deserve more respect than the disabled?
James, it’s not about looking after older people over younger people or vice versa. Both should be treated with equal dignity through an economy that puts people before profit for the richest. The taxation of the winter fuel allowance could have been used to ensure those who can afford it don’t get a payment they don’t need. There are older people who are getting the full state pension and nothing else. For them, not being eligible for Pension Credit, they will struggle with winter fuel bills, (together with higher food and energy costs today). Gary Stevenson whom you have previously interviewed has indicated that vast swathes of wealth have transferred to the richest people in the country during the pandemic. The rich have used this pandemic profit to buy up assets, especially housing, which has caused housing to become unaffordable for younger generations. He has set out a model for a wealth tax to redistribute this additional wealth using it to rebuild infrastructure. Why are Labour not even considering this option? My guess is that they do not want to upset their wealthy donors. I do believe we will see an increase in the deaths of older people this winter.
Are you aware of every economic idea that has been considered by the current government? Do you expect them to publicly mention every possible idea that they may have discussed? We all have our own opinions on our preferred economic model, but I don't expect the government to explain to me why they might have rejected my favourite option.
@@mattrichards915good for you
I am a pensioner and I have no assets and work a couple of days a week. I earn enough to keep myself afloat and can cope without a winter fuel payment. I'd rather they target me than my sons who have been shafted by us boomers. I'm most annoyed they aren't going after the truly rich.
As a seventy plus scot im happy to pay a bit of tax on my pension and non ISA savings to support the social services and younger people.
you scots arent as selfish as english boomers tho.
Watching Britain from afar, I applaud your decision to vote in Boris Johnson instead of Jeremy Corbyn, And then to have got rid of him for Keir Starmer, brilliant.
Wasnt exactly much of a choice with starmer
You must have been watching from very far if you believe that Bojo was in anyway beneficial to the UK...😅
Im 27 and the hardest thing is the lack of common sense, Those who need the help should receive it, those who don't can pat themselves on the back for working hard and not have to rely on the state for anything other than your bins being collected. Because it absolutely does feel like a hamster wheel, if after 50/60 odd years of being an Electrician means ill still have to claim pensioners credits, ill find a patch of forest and live my days with the bugs now.
As a pensioner who owns my little flat which I bought a year and a half ago for 170000 & ( and it's the cheapest I could get in my area) I will be affected by the cut., as my income is just few pounds above the pension credit limit - not to the extent of dying from hypothermia, I will just go to the central library reading room for if it really gets too cold, but I will be affected. I like talking to young people and talking with a young man he asked me what would I do in this position if I was 25 instead of 75. The immediate answer was, at that age, I would sell the flat, pack up my art supplies and go travelling - I did spent some time in my youth travelling and supporting myself by selling quick pen and ink or watercolour sketches on the streets. But this option is not practical at 75, I don't have the stamina and I need my health centre nearby. I don't object to the fuel allowance being mean tested but I think that there should be a sliding scale, with a cut off point at say 20000 pounds income being a cut off point. You have to remember that the value of the houses varies incredibly between different areas and you don't want to uproot yourself from all your support systems in your seventies
This policy is a just policy for what pensioners have done to younger generations through their political choices of the last 14 years, They don't deserve a penny for their ignorance.
THIS.
It’s easily to generalise, that’s why people do it.
Why aren’t people more outraged about the increase ,what is it?, 82 million up to 150
Million for one family that definitely doesn’t need it, where’s the outrage about this???
The Mail and their readership love the royals so they won't say anything bad about them. Apart from the darker skinned ones of course.
Most of the elderly I know of used this allowance for paying for christmas presents or a fancy dinner or even towards a holiday. Because they can already afford to heat their homes by virtue of having no rent to pay as they own their homes. If you own your own home and are retired then you can absolutely afford to pay for heating. Especially if you don't live up past idk Birmingham.
No one was complaining these last years when the cons were hitting the demographic that least voted for them, so why shouldn't Labour do the same?
Because it's immoral to penalise people based on what party the demographic they're a member of is more likely to vote for?
Ok, so you're essentially a Tory, but you just pretended to be decent
@@Chris-oz9qx no, I just think that if pensioners over whelmingly voted those clowns in for the last 14 years then they are responsible and should have to suffer the consequences, like all of us working classes have had to
66% of pensioners own their own homes outright and as such have no rent or mortgage, their outgoings are much lower than those of any working age person. And yet they have the gaul to feel entitled to handouts, while simultaneously berrating the younger generations for wanting even half the opportunities they had
Labour lies
@@wiseget but they aren't lies...
gall.
@@MrDanlancelotBasic statistics also tell us that the mortgage free houses that pensioners live in are inherited by younger generations in the families when the pensioners pass on. You have to factor that into it too.
Thats not a gotcha.
We all get moaned at for not giving up coffee, well I'm going to need that caffeine if I'm expected to work till I die. A luxury that the current pensioners have not had to even consider.
I'll be doing so with no security of a home that I own. No security of a family to look after me because I can't afford one. No security as it currently stands of an NHS that's viable. No security of an infrastructure, water/ heat, that's sound and I can afford to use. And no option to leave and find a better life because I can no longer go sun it up in Spain instead like so many pensioners receiving the heating allowance that I 100% will not receive when I'm their age.
At what point do they consider how future pensioners, the ones contributing now, will survive?
I completely agree: our grandkids and nieces/nephews, And (in my case) students should open our eyes on the problems faced by the new generations!
We suffer the lowest State Pensions in Europe. How come the other countries in Europe, less wealthy than the UK, can do it and we cant/don't?
Most dont use t for heating. Thats their xmas presents or going to their holidays fund
I just became eligible for my State Pension, which I was invited to apply for. (Yes it is classed as a benefit, whether you like it or not) I was amazed to learn that I would have normally been entitled to a WFP. I’m not wealthy by any means but I do live rent free in my house (mortgage paid off) I am content that the dial has been turned slightly towards younger generations who can only dream of having a roof over their head and their children well nourished and receiving a better education in schools that are not falling on their heads.
I work in a shoe store. Old people are the worst.
the way I see baby boomers bossing around millennials in the service industry, without a tip in sight, is a disgrace. They're often so entitled and yes there are exceptions- we see some here.
@@guymankowski3358 that happens between and within every generation
Means testing benefits is more expensive than having them be universal and inevitably harms those who fall just above the arbitrary cutoff thresholds to be in receipt of those benefits. The best way to recoup money from those who are wealthy and don't strictly require that financial assistance is through the tax system.
😂 thank you. When you said young people with all the can't get housing etc...I was like I am 49 and can't either...and then you roped me in with the young people 🥰
Nonsense. Just give every pensioner the same thing and then tax the rich. That’s how you stop a millionaire pensioner from getting stuff they don’t need. You give it, and then take it away. We have structures for all that already.
The Daily Mail .....I call it the 'tut tut ,isn't it terrible' rag. Journalism to gain clickbait and enrage, usually against things that aren't the root cause of our real problems.
Why dont we help young people thay cant afford houdong rather than home owners. Who literally coukd downsize and move because the bought a house for 10000 and its worth in the millions now.
One in 4 might be wealthy but what about the other 3? Labour promised to reduce fuel bills. If they did that everybody would gain young and old.
If 25% are sat on at least a million, imagine when you drop 100k each time and what that percentage number goes up to. There are a lot of pensioners with more than £400k
@@Sam88-l4ktied up in their house. Not 400k in cash in the bank.
@@SuperRipper1888 sell it downsize
They should stop spending all their money in Weatherspoon's
They can claim benefits and Labour have said they're looking to increase the threshold. But that doesn't make exciting headlines at the Daily Mail
Finally someone in the media is saying this! I've been saying this ever since the means testing of Winter Fuel Payment was announced.
I've never understood what all the crowing and whining about cutting the allowance was about anyway - all it has done is made a benefit means tested, just like all the others. If you fall the wrong side of the line, that's what an appeals process is for.
To all those who have spent the last few years complaining that we need to cut benefits, that's exactly what is being done. You can't then moan about it when it directly affects you - you got your wish, you should be happy.
I think the true irony of the state of the wealth distribution in this country is that if these pensioners sold their assets they would very quickly come to realise how bad the housing market truly is.
As someone who lived through austerity being told 'tighten your belts' and watched public services and opportunities in the nation being hollowed out, I'm now not that sympathetic by it being means tested, because if you need it you'll still get it. Tighten your belts 👍
Means testing costs more than just paying everyone the same and always knocks out the poorest, elderly and technically non savvy.
No it does not - this is nonsense spread by those who oppose means testing. The government already has all the information that it needs on the nominal value of your property, your savings, income etc. Computer algorithm execution time costs next to nothing.
If true, then at least it is a fairer system? Child benefit is in a way means tested. Do similar as those better off will be paying tax. There has to be a way. Other benefits are means tested for most age groups. Care costs are! If fairness costs then so be it in my book
Unfortunately my mum is one of those on the cusp: over the limit for pension credit by £5 a month!
I've pushed her to try and my sister has, too.
But she's one of many who say "no point, I won't get it"
As a millennial i have to say: cry some more, it's time people with money and assets to pay their way.
They do
My parents are pensioners, between them they get 2 old age pensions, an RAF pension and a civil service pension. i’ve asked them before if financially they are okay or if they need any help, they’ve told me they’ve never been better off. Their Facebook feeds are full of Memes about how evil starmer is for taking away their fuel allowance, and I’ve asked them if they actually need it, the answer is “no but that’s not the point”. 🤦♂️
I'm approaching pension age and definitely should not be getting a winter fuel payment !
The catch is not whether it should be means tested but how that means testing is implemented.
There will be some pensioners who are not eligible for Pension Credit but fall well short of the £1m net worth who will suffer without the £300.
So perhaps a sensible idea badly implemented??
CORRECTION - £500 weekly test is no longer correct. Pension credit eligibility is the main criteria, which you get with an income lower than £218 pw.
On this basis, a means test threshold should be introduced above this cutoff for eligibility.
Wish people would stop saying "all but the poorest" re. pensioners and fuel allowance. Its approx £500 a week income for the means test. That is way above earnings where you are NOT eligible for ANY universal credit.
The means test threshold to get pension credit is £218 per week. State pension is £221 per week. No pensioners getting new state pension qualify for pension credit and consequently lose WFA.
All I can say is that its about time that the playing field was levelled. The feathering of the older generation's nests at the expense of the young is despicable.
Old people are more likely to vote than young people. It's a simple as that.
678 properties available on Rightmove with 2+ bedrooms up to £250k in my city, Bristol. The statement 'I can't afford to buy a house' is never finished with 'in the area I want to live'. First time buyers seem to have entitlement that they should be able to live in the best areas with bars, restaurants and other facilities on a tree lined doorstep.
In all seriousness though - old people vote. You want politics to look after your interests? Vote
old people already vote the most. and they vote the most selfishly too.
I like how liberals reveal their conservative mindsets when it comes to pensioners. What’s next, James. Are we going to call the asylum seekers a bunch of invading criminals when Starmer’s starts up his own n Rwanda scheme?
"What’s next, James." Hopefully LBC handing him his P45.
As Phil Ochs said about liberals
" 10 degrees to the left of center in the best of times, 10 degrees to the right of centre when it affects them personally"
@@Chris-oz9qx Wow really? New respect for Phil Ochs.
People are fed up with all the wealthy old people trying to justify why already wealthy people should get more free money. How about some help for the actual working people instead?
Currently, here in Alberta Canada, a 60-inch ROKU Smart TV costs less than half a months worth of groceries. How?
@@zzz-x7p RCA and Phillips use chinese prison labour?
The pensioners should just stop going to bingo with their pals and doing whatever pensioners find enjoyable as they expect the younger generations to do in order to buy a house.
most pensioners i know live a life of luxury compared to their parents.
So labour did nothing. And we got mad at them anyway. Typical torries
But enough about them, what about the *Tories*
@@jeffsimon9594 The Tories are still very relevant given they were in charge for the last 14 years and we're still reeling from and suffering through the policies of Thatcher from the 80's. These kind of things don't change over night. It takes years, sometimes decades. Labour have already outlined some 10 year plans to fix things that have been totally broken by the last lot. They're being realistic about things and not just lying to everyones faces because they want to hear platitudes.
it was under Blair that house prices became unaffordabe?
Yup, low interest rates, 100% mortgages, no Social housing, immigration went up massively and guess what? House prices did
I'm not at all surprised by the millionaire pensioner statistic, you only have to look at the success of cruise ships and look at the demographic of the people on them to see how affluent the average pensioner is. Sure there will be some poor pensioners too but the job of government should be to effectively target the poorest with the help they need and not just pensioners.
i am self employed, i have not worked for anyone under 50 for years. because they cant afford anything doing for the most part.
@@kanedNunable I too am self-employed and quite often work for people under 50 who are looking to improve their home. Anecdote tells us nothing.
Get to the point please.....
The 13 million pensioners in the UK have seen an average annual increase in pensions of 3.83% since 2010 (10.1% increase in 23/24). Eligible benefits include: State Pension, Pension credit, Winter fuel payment, Attendance Allowance, Council Tax Reduction, Housing benefit, Free bus pass, Free TV licence, Cold Weather payment and Warm home discount (one off). 75% of pensioners own their home outright. 27% own assets worth more that £1million. Not figures or information that the Daily Mail or Daily Express will ever share.
Whether pensioners as a group are wealthy or not, the fact is that the winter fuel issue will most affect those who are not wealthy or even comfortable. The issue for me is why go after this perceived problem when the glaring inequality/unfairness issue in the developed world these days is the widening income distribution gap? Why leave alone the obscenely wealthy whose resources do NOT trickle down, and whose affluence is primarily the product of asset hoarding?
I'm 23 and i say if pensioners save and scrimp. I have to work very hard to afford my heating. So if they tighten their belts pull their boot staps up and get to work rather than spending their money on Werther's originals, cigarettes and going on expensive holidays
There is a bigger picture on wealth. Means testing fuel allowance is inefficient. If you want to address wealth inequality, have a wealth tax.
Living in a household with combined wealth is very different from personally owning wealth. VERY few pensioners are personal millionaires, and many are relatively poor!
Thank you,
Respect for asking questions, no one else dares to.
Obviously my answer would be I see zero reason why payments to well off pensioners should ever be treated as higher priority than a whole list of other problems this country is struggling with atm.
Just because a pensioner lives in a house worth a million pounds, it doesn’t mean that that have a huge disposable income. Many pensioners bought their home before property prices exploded. In the 1970s that would have been around £30 - 40k.
Come on - stop using any common sense …..
So what you are saying is, they have equity of 970k?
they can release equity. you even admit their houses were much cheaper than the under 50s had to pay.
Maybe they should downsize and stop buying Costa and having certain luxuries and sell their house to release equity?
We're all looking the wrong way while the energy companies are laughing at us. It's sad, really.
Everybody in mainstream seems to ignore the huge elephant in the room.
agreed James I don't like it. I'm with Martin lewis. move the heating allowance to council tax bands other than a, b and possibly c
Im 64 & get £360 per month to live on,I cannot retire until I’m 67.
I’m sure due to huge increase of house prices then their are pensioners with massive asset of their home.
But what about the many living in council houses on one of the lowest pensions in Europe.
I'm a retired mental health nurse with a decent pension. I haver no problems with this government gift being taken away, and it would be disengenuous to pretend otherwise.
thank james for some sanity.
the only prob w the means testing winter fuel is its slightly to low a threshold. thats not whats being descussed n its driving me nuts.
also shows like gmb ect if they cared wud be doing a huge drive t get those entitled onto p'credit n then keep asking mp's t look at the threshold.
its not its just being used as red meat
When my mother hits retirement age next year she will be a few quid above the weekly limit to claim pension credit. She would lose £300 a year on winter fuel AND help with her housing costs (she rents). As you say, this isn't what people are discussing, the people who you'd expect to do it are too busy protecting the interests of those who probably shouldn't get it. For their first big announcement... Labour really picked a doozey.
@@SgtWilko1979 definatly. its madening that the onlypeople t sufferfrom this policy are being ignored.
come winter it'lbe too late to get it right .
we need t up the benifits level inline w the cost of staying alive during winter and get all the elderly on wgat they are entitled to. im worried all this click bait is doing more harm than propperly making sure its done right
As a side point based on my own anecdotal observations. How many houses, that would in the estate agent advert be described as a "family home", are presently occupied by one or two people over the age of 65?
Regardless of whether pensioners can or cannot afford to pay for their heating bills, Starmer is rubbing their noses in it by accepting all his free gifts and clothing. That’s more shocking!!
Another fact for you James. According to the last Census in 2021, 75% of pensioners own their home outright. Therefore have no rent or mortgage payments to cover.
But when we did have mortgages the rate went up to around 15%. We didn't spend fortunes on phones, streaming services, foreign holidays, vast amounts on alcohol and drugs or get into debt. If you couldn't afford something you just didn't have it. You either saved up for it or went without. Maybe people in London have assets of £1,000,000 because of the value of property there but that is laughable anywhere else. Many still pay tax because small private pensions push them into tax rates. By the way, do not believe polls.
@@wendywebster5351 the convenient part of this mortgage rates argument is you don't have to give figures, 15% of naff all is still naff all 😂and I'm sorry but if you honestly think younger generations are "spending fortunes" on those things you honestly need to put the newspapers down
@@Snjallr yes but we had naff all wages as well. Just go out in any city any day, and not just weekends, and you will see exactly what the young spend. Also we had no banks of mum and dad that let us lounge about at home playing online games until we found the right job that would use the massive talents that our media studies degree would get us - after our gap year in Thailand of course.
@@wendywebster5351 this is just a sweeping generalisation and obviously not true, do you have any original thoughts? Or just going to parrot what the newspapers tell you?
Kind of irrelevant because housing benefit will cover rent separately to pensions etc. I am on the side of we shoukd cut the payment, but unless you have an outstanding mortgage it won't affect you.
A lot of pensioners who own their own homes might well be asset rich but cash poor, especially if one partner has passed away. In which case they should sell up and downsize.
Pensioners can be divided into the *'Haves'* and the *'Have Nots.'* Wealthy pensioners are taxed, and thus the Winter Fuel Payments are recouped via taxation. *HOWEVER, in the 'have nots' category, this payment can mean the difference between life and death.*
Already over 13,500 pensioners pass away each Winter because they cannot afford to heat their homes and to eat enough.
Taking this benefit away from old and vulnerable people, many of whom are either not eligible for Pension Credit, or are not computer literate, or don't own either a computer or a smartphone - amounts to a death sentence for many older people.
I think the problem is houses are included within that net worth, but we live in a country where it's seen as something that must be passed on to the next generation and the wealth it's created has been earned.
No, if you can't afford to live and have a 500k house, you've got a problem and should sell and buy a smaller home.
No you didn't "earn" this wealth, you bought a home 40 years ago for
...as a young person, I'd rather give them the £1.5billion it would cost to do it, rather than have them vote for fascists in a few years time. Small beans to my mind relative to wider problems.
Again, James totally misses the point. No one saying that wealthy pensioners shouldn’t be stopped the winter fuel payment. It’s the pensioner that only has an income of 13,000 to 20,000 that this payment is Important to their finances. Increasing the personal allowance would help Maybe to £13,000-£14,000.
This divisivness needs to stop. Everybody is struggling young and old. Yes some pensioners are wealthy but its not the majority. Many are still paying tax and may own their home but have to maintain it and when they need any form of care have to pay for it
If I had the money as a pensioner to pay my bills easily without losing any money why would I need the winter fuel allowance. But if I was finding it tough with my pension then I would appreciate it no end. That's all that there is really. If you need it then get it. If you don't need it then you don't get it. I'm sure many retired people spend winter time in warmer climates.
I didn't know about this because after the pandemic and Boris I stay away from the news. As always thanks to LBC for the update. Everyone stay safe and well 👍
Time to move on from Black Plague 2.0 my friend
Are they really lazy bigots James? That's a very nasty accusation to be throwing around, consider this, most people, myself included, left school at 16, despite attending the local grammar and getting 9 GCE Olevels, my family could not afford to send me to 6th form college or university so work it was with day release and night school an extra 11 hours on top of 4 days at work, I eventually bought my own home and have just finished paying for it, so am I to give it to some youngster fresh out of college?
The problem as far as I can see is that this new policy ignores those just above the poverty limit. They are being penalised while the wealthier tax payers are just doing fine. They may be a minority but this loss is large for them. A lot larger and harder than a tiny tax raise for the wealthy. It is not what I expected from the Labour Party. They should have made the qualifying limit higher. I think James either ignored or missed the point here.
The fact is the cost of means testing will negate ant possible savings. Why not take it back in tax?
A question which many of us have been asking. HMRC are in the perfect position to do it right now, no need to set-up anything.
I'm glad I'm not a school leaver or a pensioner at the minute.
I'm just middle aged
30-40 of today is probably the worst position
Wait until you find out you haven't been paying into your state pension. You actually pay for those who are taking their pension.
we will have to work 10-15 years longer than our parents tho. tories raised pension age
I retired at 45 worked hard invested well in 7 houses that now pay me a nice little retirement 😉 happy days £11,000 a month tax free
Ultimately, this could have been fixed with taxation.
You're right. A flat tax seems most fair 😂
@@manvbees except on income it's not. Now a flat tax on wealth is a different story. 25% on everything over 1m for instance.
@graybeaton881 how about everyone pays 25%. That would be fair too. Unless you want to punish aspiration of course.
@@manvbees because I want HMRC to be able to actively engage in revenue gathering and monitoring rather than waste time on rounding errors. I can halve enforcement costs while untaxing the majority of the country and punishing the lazy children of the rich. if you think tax stifles ambition you've only met mediocre ambitions.
@graybeaton881 seems having a flat tax would be far easier to monitor and enforce
The issue isn't the policy, the policy is right in principle and right to ensure that rich pensioners don't get a benefits hand out they don't need, there is a very fair discussion about where the cut off point is at the bottom, but obviously pension credits means you aren't adding layers of admin to this
But to every pensioner who screams to the young, you can't afford things because you don't budget properly, to save this cut and have it, just lose £5.78 from your weekly food shop and you're done, you'll have the £300 back.
#
An important and obvious point- setting up another system of means testing would cost more than the actual payments themself.
So much easier to concentrate on 25% of those who have, than those who have a fixed income less than a £1000
per month, makes us all feel better 😢
About time we stopped giving handouts to the generation that has received every favour imaginable until now. I understand not all of the relevant people are rich beyond belief but I don’t think we should be doing favours for a group that has far higher levels of wealth than others, whilst young people are forced to take the hit
Is James O Brian a responsible journalist?? No
But they need to sell and move or remorgage which is not always feasible. They have to move to a different cheaper place with no family or friends.
Ask a pensioner what it was like to receive working tax credits?
Honestly we just need a pension that pensioners can live on without needing these additional hand outs. Everyone can get behind pensions but the second you start adding additional payments to anyone in society it starts getting nasty. My mum and dad were receiving it but won't do anymore - and they simply don't need it. My mum said she'd usually just spend that money on Christmas presents for the family - it was needed though. Why should they get it? They shouldn't. Just sort pensions, all pensioners get it.