If I'm beign honest it was always kinda weird that the Carnosaur, the huge predator monster we had, was a support piece and not a front-line damage machine. I am liking the new direction for it.
The problem is the new Carnosaur doesn't do much damage. For example, if he's similarly priced to Krox you're never going to bring the Carno because he's just way less effective and adds nothing else. Maybe the new army building rules will force our hand, but its not a good warscroll without buffs that haven't been previewed.
Don’t forget that opponents can counter charge now and stegadon horns affects units no matter how many models are in the unit. I suggest on the engine to maybe store for turn 1 and then just rando roll every turn.
@@CalebHastings You can also counter charge with the Engine, and the unit you counter charged triggers the crest of horns and also you got the +1 damage for charging.
Hooray for no more -1D, it was either GREAT or awful, either way it was not a very fun time me or my opponent. Loving the look of the Asterisms, lots of flexibility but can still play tanky saurus/krox or thunder lizard :)
I love the flexibility of the army rule! As the Seraphon tend to be a second half edition army for the BT, having this flexibility will be even more precious to have lots of fun during the wait!
I think the truth of the "sidequests" is that they are mostly going to be pretty easy to counter, which means you can force the enemy into taking steps to counter it, and thus we must use their strategic necessity against them. All according to the great plan.
Slann doesn’t get a +1 to unbinding or dispelling anymore. And the asterism only buffs casting too. Wonder if Kroak will be the same. Global unbind is obviously great, but seems like we may have less magic defense from our frogs? Very excited to see the rest of the index :D
I find it funny that the flavor text says slaans can even surpass lords of change as casters. When they only have a +1 to casting and have no pluses to unbind. Aside from that the new changes seem really fun and I'm excited to see what they bring to the table becauae so far it seems quite fun.
I’m getting into AoS in this new edition (coming from 40k and other games). I’m very excited! 🦎Just finished building my Seraphon Spearhead 🦖 I hope the skink velociraptors and infantry skinks are good as I bought a box of each 😅
@@CalebHastings yeah! I bought more for the models than the rules! All the new Seraphon models are beautiful 🙌🏽 awesome time to join the Great Plan 🐸 thanks for the amazing content as always!
I believe Seraphon are really well positioned to take advantage of Manifestation Lore - 3 (or4) free endless spells - because we have the auto-include Slann and cheap two-casters, and the easy access to bonuses to casting. My first list will start with Slann and two Starseers and "Aetherwrought Machineries". We've already seen the scroll for Quicksilver Swords and it wasn't nerfed.
This was an issue with Vengeful Defender and the Core Rule had an FAQ on it, don't think they'd reverse it going into 4th, but no, you can't pick the same unit more than once. "Q: Each time an ability is used, if the effect allows multiple units to be picked (e.g. a rule states ‘pick up to 3 friendly units’), can the same unit be picked more than once? A: No"
One thing I like about the Engine is that you can pair it up with the slann. Bring back a reinforced unit of Kroxigor or Aggradons, then return another slain model. So the enemy takes out 6 models and you just pop 4 back up on the table. It's not great, but it does mean bringing back an easy extra 5 wounds to an already good unit that was essentially destroyed ("good" depending on what those scrolls will look like ofc!).
From all I seen in this faction focuses, "replacement unit" means "completely new, undamaged unit with reducet size", so it's very unlikely that it will work (also remember about Rally, it will be very sick if it will work)
Hey Caleb, just wanted to say I appreciate your content. I'm also excited for the new edition I;ve played WHFB, would like to get into AoS and get some games
Well, run up, drop 2 Mortal,s and then get killed.. At least you tied up some unit and maybe roll a 4+ to get 3 back. Let´s see, maybe the spell-lore can help a bit.
Thus, the amount of mortal damage kinda reduced everywhere in every army, so it's still good that they have it, even if low. Thus, redeploy is now a run ability, so it can help to pinpoint the target of your hammers ! Terradons might have some play, and I'm glad to see the changes !
Could target a foot hero as it’s not a shooting attack. If that’s a general as well might help to further the great plan for the ‘general in combat/slain’ side quest? But fast moving units when a lot of battle tactics are around being at a part of the board are good… if cheap!
Also for 4th the formations not bad. Its as strong as nurgles passive and the pike in is great. This addition is all about holding objectives so that 3inch move could be getting a point or not
What do you all think about vengeance of azyr couldnt i charge in two Oldbloods on Carno on enemy Monsters then declare at the end of the charge phase the vengeance of azyr ability trigger the pile and deal 2d3 mortal to those monsters which then triggers the blood frenzy ability of the carnos which grants me strike first ?
I'm curious by unlimited as the Nagash warscroll you looked at in another video says in its text it can be cast multiple times, but does not have the keyword unlimited.
Yeah the Carnosaurs definitely feeling like an attacking piece more than support again, also my dice Dino symbols can consistently mean something again with that first asterism, yes that was a first edition book thing, been a long time since then. Also the special assignment honour guard rule isn't if they get charged but if they charge themselves, so you can fine tune a unit to tear through whatever unit type the enemy has most of.
@Caleb Hastings in the Review of the Core Rules in this RUclips Video @1:20 for universal weapon Rules ruclips.net/video/2qOL55Yl5f0/видео.htmlsi=TDlFG2Ir-1TQ21LV It states that companian attack cant be buffed by friendly ability like spells and so on. Doesnt that nerv Monsters, Aggradon and so on? And the command point ability power through could be used for carnosaur to trigger blood frenzy. Your thoughts on these two topics
With being able to choose your spell lore and manifestation lore in 4 ed the Slann could be a really nice piece. I think im most sad about losing scaly skin. Our monsters and saurus are gonna be a lot more squishy.
Terradons are no longer 1/battle. Its still not GREAT, but that's something. The Engine's model revive is going to be incredibly valuable for kroxigors and aggradons.
I was in the understanding that AoA can't affect companion weapons. Thus, we are stuck with a 4+ to hit, right? If that's the case, we will be missing lots of attacks
So the only reason I can think of why they took away the stegadon’s impacts hits is cause of the new Power Through command. So technically if he survives a charge and uses Crest of horns then uses Power Through, it could do 2 d3 MWs that turn. However don’t know if it’s good enough to spend a CP, will have to see if any changes to normal or ancient stegadons.
That’s literally the opposite of what the Warhammer community article says. “Effect: Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made as part of that Attack ability. This also affects weapons that have the Companion weapon ability.”
I think you might've only read the bold text and text in pictures. We and nearly every army will have 4 Battle Formations to choose from. This is just the preview showing off one of them. "Other formations capitalise on the indomitable Seraphon war-beasts, tap into celestial energies to teleport key units around the battlefield, or exploit the natural swiftness of the nimble skink hosts."
The Engine confuses me. I thought when I saw Prayers and how it is a "power-up" mechanic it seemed to fix many of the problems the old Engine had. But then the new Engine doesn't take advantage of this prayer mechanic it feels bad. I would be a simple fix, transform that ability to more or less a multi-tiered prayer and it will work (the main thing is being allowed to roll a dice first before declaring an effect). You can wait a turn, roll a 1 turn 2, and get nothing and loose all your charges. Feels bad. Still as bad as it was, maybe its sliiiiightly better, but still not worth it even in a fun game in my eyes because it just looks like no fun.
Also making the Engine a Priest again just feels right. I hope our Skink Priests are actually Priests again as they should. Dare I say a Starpriest being both a Wizard 1 and Priest 1 would open interesting design space but I might be asking too much from GW at this time.
Hey at least it's not a Skaven effect and rolling a 1 backfires and does mortal damage back onto us. I think a 1 should still be a failure with only 1 power token, that's a consistent theme for the game. I think the new EotG is much better than it is currently, but as usual, at what cost?
They've stated in a different WarCom article that all summoning new units is gone. Recursion is the name of the game. Hopefully we'll have other ways to bring units back other than just a Slann. Would be nice if the Realmshaper Engine did that also.
@@theoblivieat technically you can attempt it once per hero phase, but it's still a 4+ and hopefully you're not having to attempt it until round 3. So yeah realistically you're likely only going to bring back 1-2 half strength units.
Stegadon looks like an April joke to be honest. I'm upset again that the big space dinosaur faction doesn't have any good monsters with good stats in their army.
For the saurus battle formation, I think it's actually decent. It happens at the end of every turn, so on average it's 6 mortals on your turn and 6 mortals on the opponent's turn. Average 12 mortals a round is pretty good
Technically a little less, you're assuming all 3 of your 2+ on D3 rolls are successful. Realistically you'll fail at least 1. Of those 2 that are successful your average mortal damage is 5, so 10 mortals per round. But the other big shining point is the extra pile in which could be a big deal for control scores and movement/positioning advantages.
These changes are weak, the Carnasaur will hit hard then fall over. Summoning is set to a piece so we can’t castle as well we have to wait for stuff to die then it’s a coin flip if it comes back. Cleanse the realms, teleport locked behind a sub-faction. Slann has to use one of his spell slots to banish spells now which will be out at random cause everyone has them now. The rest better be good…
seems reeally weak, sure we dont need to worry about abilitys like -1dmg being useless or op, not balanced, but.... we lost many abilitys for.. 2move? or +1 cast? or -1rend only in our zone?? we lost sooo much power, and i doubt they gave it on scrolls since ptrodactils are useless again, and engine couldnt be worst.. but is really cloose to as useless as this edittion. and the worry part is that every stegadon will be as,bad, doing 50% less dmg than other monsters and even lost the +1 armor for the head crest ( only that bad rampage). only good part was the carno, it isnt great but at least he does the same dmg than other previewed monsters
Yeah, definitely weaker than current Seraphon. I'm still holding out hope for the full index. Hopefully Aggradons and Raptadons are good. Krox look nice! Warspawn Krox will hopefully have a different niche than the normies Krox. But yeah, it seems like they have weakened a lot of the factions going into 4th edition!!
Yeah, and by seeing almost all of the factions, we can say that the drop of DMG and mortal DMG will help units to tank more, and with the recursion we have it will be great! (Just hoping they don't rise too much points so we can have many different units on the board 🤔)
If I'm beign honest it was always kinda weird that the Carnosaur, the huge predator monster we had, was a support piece and not a front-line damage machine. I am liking the new direction for it.
The problem is the new Carnosaur doesn't do much damage. For example, if he's similarly priced to Krox you're never going to bring the Carno because he's just way less effective and adds nothing else. Maybe the new army building rules will force our hand, but its not a good warscroll without buffs that haven't been previewed.
Don’t forget that opponents can counter charge now and stegadon horns affects units no matter how many models are in the unit. I suggest on the engine to maybe store for turn 1 and then just rando roll every turn.
True! Offer up a steggy as counter charge bait!
@@CalebHastings You can also counter charge with the Engine, and the unit you counter charged triggers the crest of horns and also you got the +1 damage for charging.
Hooray for no more -1D, it was either GREAT or awful, either way it was not a very fun time me or my opponent.
Loving the look of the Asterisms, lots of flexibility but can still play tanky saurus/krox or thunder lizard :)
We lost our survivability and so much more and asterisms while thematic have no punch to them
I was hoping all day you would have something posted when I got home. Thank you Caleb!
Thanks for the summary!
Glad they’re not pushing us into full skink or full Saurus armies - feels like we’ll have some choice back!
I love the flexibility of the army rule!
As the Seraphon tend to be a second half edition army for the BT, having this flexibility will be even more precious to have lots of fun during the wait!
I think the truth of the "sidequests" is that they are mostly going to be pretty easy to counter, which means you can force the enemy into taking steps to counter it, and thus we must use their strategic necessity against them. All according to the great plan.
As aSeraphon user I find incredible that someone make such good and focus videos about Seraphon strategy, thank you for that
Slann doesn’t get a +1 to unbinding or dispelling anymore. And the asterism only buffs casting too. Wonder if Kroak will be the same. Global unbind is obviously great, but seems like we may have less magic defense from our frogs?
Very excited to see the rest of the index :D
True!! Good catch
Just finishing up painting my old blood on a Carnosaur and I’m so stoked.
Abilities like ‘celestial reinforcements’ seem to be given to armies which had access to summoning before
I find it funny that the flavor text says slaans can even surpass lords of change as casters. When they only have a +1 to casting and have no pluses to unbind.
Aside from that the new changes seem really fun and I'm excited to see what they bring to the table becauae so far it seems quite fun.
Lol yep. It's always funny to contrast GW's description of the ability and the actual ability!
I think what they're referencing is lords of change are lvl 2 wizards, and Slaans are lvl 3.
I’m getting into AoS in this new edition (coming from 40k and other games). I’m very excited! 🦎Just finished building my Seraphon Spearhead 🦖 I hope the skink velociraptors and infantry skinks are good as I bought a box of each 😅
I hope so too! I absolutely love the Raptadons models!
@@CalebHastings yeah! I bought more for the models than the rules! All the new Seraphon models are beautiful 🙌🏽 awesome time to join the Great Plan 🐸 thanks for the amazing content as always!
I will miss scaly skin, and I still miss the Engine of the Gods gambling to summon, but I'm excited to see the rest of the warscrolls and abilities
I believe Seraphon are really well positioned to take advantage of Manifestation Lore - 3 (or4) free endless spells - because we have the auto-include Slann and cheap two-casters, and the easy access to bonuses to casting. My first list will start with Slann and two Starseers and "Aetherwrought Machineries". We've already seen the scroll for Quicksilver Swords and it wasn't nerfed.
"Keep your Slann alive and not in combat." That's what you should do with a Slann anyway.
The +5 ability for the EoTG doesn't say different units so the way I'm reading it you can pick the same unit 3 times.
This was an issue with Vengeful Defender and the Core Rule had an FAQ on it, don't think they'd reverse it going into 4th, but no, you can't pick the same unit more than once.
"Q: Each time an ability is used, if the effect allows multiple units to be picked (e.g. a rule states ‘pick up to 3 friendly units’), can the same unit be picked more than once?
A: No"
@@DustinDalziel777 thanks for the clarification
One thing I like about the Engine is that you can pair it up with the slann. Bring back a reinforced unit of Kroxigor or Aggradons, then return another slain model. So the enemy takes out 6 models and you just pop 4 back up on the table. It's not great, but it does mean bringing back an easy extra 5 wounds to an already good unit that was essentially destroyed ("good" depending on what those scrolls will look like ofc!).
From all I seen in this faction focuses, "replacement unit" means "completely new, undamaged unit with reducet size", so it's very unlikely that it will work (also remember about Rally, it will be very sick if it will work)
4’s and 2’s for the carnosaur is the same BUT will lean into the crit 2 hits so I’m here for it!
I'm enjoying the idea of things not being split so strictly. I'm hoping I can make a Slann/Kroxigor/Skink list work this edition.
Hey Caleb, just wanted to say I appreciate your content. I'm also excited for the new edition I;ve played WHFB, would like to get into AoS and get some games
Hi everyone! I'm an AoS 3.0 vet but new to Seraphon. Can't wait to field some dinos! Hoping Koatl's Claw is still a solid way to play. 😅
building 2 stegadons as i listen, cant wait for 4th
Nice!
The terradons drop bombs ability is no longer once per game though
Not that that makes a huge difference…
Ah! Good point. That helps... a little bit.
Well, run up, drop 2 Mortal,s and then get killed.. At least you tied up some unit and maybe roll a 4+ to get 3 back. Let´s see, maybe the spell-lore can help a bit.
Thus, the amount of mortal damage kinda reduced everywhere in every army, so it's still good that they have it, even if low.
Thus, redeploy is now a run ability, so it can help to pinpoint the target of your hammers !
Terradons might have some play, and I'm glad to see the changes !
@@PG-st2ty could potentially do Power Through to jump lines and steal an objective
Could target a foot hero as it’s not a shooting attack. If that’s a general as well might help to further the great plan for the ‘general in combat/slain’ side quest? But fast moving units when a lot of battle tactics are around being at a part of the board are good… if cheap!
Also for 4th the formations not bad. Its as strong as nurgles passive and the pike in is great.
This addition is all about holding objectives so that 3inch move could be getting a point or not
What do you all think about vengeance of azyr couldnt i charge in two Oldbloods on Carno on enemy Monsters then declare at the end of the charge phase the vengeance of azyr ability trigger the pile and deal 2d3 mortal to those monsters which then triggers the blood frenzy ability of the carnos which grants me strike first ?
Would love to hear your thoughts now that the Faction Pack has been released
I'm curious by unlimited as the Nagash warscroll you looked at in another video says in its text it can be cast multiple times, but does not have the keyword unlimited.
Yeah the Carnosaurs definitely feeling like an attacking piece more than support again, also my dice Dino symbols can consistently mean something again with that first asterism, yes that was a first edition book thing, been a long time since then. Also the special assignment honour guard rule isn't if they get charged but if they charge themselves, so you can fine tune a unit to tear through whatever unit type the enemy has most of.
@Caleb Hastings in the Review of the Core Rules in this RUclips Video @1:20 for universal weapon Rules ruclips.net/video/2qOL55Yl5f0/видео.htmlsi=TDlFG2Ir-1TQ21LV
It states that companian attack cant be buffed by friendly ability like spells and so on. Doesnt that nerv Monsters, Aggradon and so on?
And the command point ability power through could be used for carnosaur to trigger blood frenzy.
Your thoughts on these two topics
So in 3rd ed Kroxogor had the lead by skinks ability makes me think skink heros will lead them.
Oh my god i just read through my new AoS cards am i stupid or is the Astrolith Bearer literally dead.
I think that formation was sarus knights. Not sure if it was sunclaw tho lol
With being able to choose your spell lore and manifestation lore in 4 ed the Slann could be a really nice piece. I think im most sad about losing scaly skin. Our monsters and saurus are gonna be a lot more squishy.
Yeah, usually that -1 to damage is what kept my stuff alive!
Terradons are no longer 1/battle. Its still not GREAT, but that's something.
The Engine's model revive is going to be incredibly valuable for kroxigors and aggradons.
I was in the understanding that AoA can't affect companion weapons. Thus, we are stuck with a 4+ to hit, right? If that's the case, we will be missing lots of attacks
No it can, checked the articles that showed it and it does affect them.
Good to know. Thanks
So the only reason I can think of why they took away the stegadon’s impacts hits is cause of the new Power Through command. So technically if he survives a charge and uses Crest of horns then uses Power Through, it could do 2 d3 MWs that turn. However don’t know if it’s good enough to spend a CP, will have to see if any changes to normal or ancient stegadons.
Aw never mind just read Power Through again, it’s only when the stegadon charged, not being charged. Oh well.
Thus, stegs can have another rampage/other passive that can trigger on the power through!
Don't forget that AoA doesn't buff companions attacks, so no 3+/2+ on its attacks
That’s literally the opposite of what the Warhammer community article says. “Effect: Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made as part of that Attack ability. This also affects weapons that have the
Companion weapon ability.”
@@Ibin746 yep! Just went back to re-read it. It DOES apply to companion attacks. Whew!
I'm kinda sad that our rules (all armies) are gonna be 1 battle trait + 1 formation rule. Sounds too simple for me but..
I think you might've only read the bold text and text in pictures. We and nearly every army will have 4 Battle Formations to choose from. This is just the preview showing off one of them. "Other formations capitalise on the indomitable Seraphon war-beasts, tap into celestial energies to teleport key units around the battlefield, or exploit the natural swiftness of the nimble skink hosts."
The Engine confuses me. I thought when I saw Prayers and how it is a "power-up" mechanic it seemed to fix many of the problems the old Engine had. But then the new Engine doesn't take advantage of this prayer mechanic it feels bad. I would be a simple fix, transform that ability to more or less a multi-tiered prayer and it will work (the main thing is being allowed to roll a dice first before declaring an effect). You can wait a turn, roll a 1 turn 2, and get nothing and loose all your charges. Feels bad. Still as bad as it was, maybe its sliiiiightly better, but still not worth it even in a fun game in my eyes because it just looks like no fun.
Yes! That would have been a much better solution!!
Also making the Engine a Priest again just feels right. I hope our Skink Priests are actually Priests again as they should. Dare I say a Starpriest being both a Wizard 1 and Priest 1 would open interesting design space but I might be asking too much from GW at this time.
GW hasn’t known what to do with the EotG since WHFB.
Hey at least it's not a Skaven effect and rolling a 1 backfires and does mortal damage back onto us. I think a 1 should still be a failure with only 1 power token, that's a consistent theme for the game. I think the new EotG is much better than it is currently, but as usual, at what cost?
I really enjoyed playing starborne i hope we get more summoning later :>
They've stated in a different WarCom article that all summoning new units is gone. Recursion is the name of the game. Hopefully we'll have other ways to bring units back other than just a Slann. Would be nice if the Realmshaper Engine did that also.
@@DustinDalziel777 Oh thanks for the insightfull comment! Yeah let's hope so cause Once per battle is a little.. eh
@@theoblivieat technically you can attempt it once per hero phase, but it's still a 4+ and hopefully you're not having to attempt it until round 3. So yeah realistically you're likely only going to bring back 1-2 half strength units.
EotG+3xMSU Kroxigors=battleball?
Haha yes! I like what you are thinking!
@@CalebHastings Thought you might ;D
Stegadon looks like an April joke to be honest. I'm upset again that the big space dinosaur faction doesn't have any good monsters with good stats in their army.
no more bite roll :((
For the saurus battle formation, I think it's actually decent. It happens at the end of every turn, so on average it's 6 mortals on your turn and 6 mortals on the opponent's turn. Average 12 mortals a round is pretty good
Technically a little less, you're assuming all 3 of your 2+ on D3 rolls are successful. Realistically you'll fail at least 1. Of those 2 that are successful your average mortal damage is 5, so 10 mortals per round. But the other big shining point is the extra pile in which could be a big deal for control scores and movement/positioning advantages.
These changes are weak, the Carnasaur will hit hard then fall over. Summoning is set to a piece so we can’t castle as well we have to wait for stuff to die then it’s a coin flip if it comes back. Cleanse the realms, teleport locked behind a sub-faction. Slann has to use one of his spell slots to banish spells now which will be out at random cause everyone has them now. The rest better be good…
seems reeally weak, sure we dont need to worry about abilitys like -1dmg being useless or op, not balanced, but....
we lost many abilitys for.. 2move? or +1 cast? or -1rend only in our zone?? we lost sooo much power, and i doubt they gave it on scrolls since ptrodactils are useless again, and engine couldnt be worst.. but is really cloose to as useless as this edittion. and the worry part is that every stegadon will be as,bad, doing 50% less dmg than other monsters and even lost the +1 armor for the head crest ( only that bad rampage).
only good part was the carno, it isnt great but at least he does the same dmg than other previewed monsters
Yeah, definitely weaker than current Seraphon. I'm still holding out hope for the full index. Hopefully Aggradons and Raptadons are good. Krox look nice! Warspawn Krox will hopefully have a different niche than the normies Krox.
But yeah, it seems like they have weakened a lot of the factions going into 4th edition!!
Yeah, and by seeing almost all of the factions, we can say that the drop of DMG and mortal DMG will help units to tank more, and with the recursion we have it will be great! (Just hoping they don't rise too much points so we can have many different units on the board 🤔)