What do you think can you activate vengeance of azyr after your charge phase when you have a oldblood on carno in combat so he triggers blood frenzie in the upcoming combat Phase you could have two carnos fighting before the enemy can react most of the time
I like the new traits! Never loved the Starborn vs Coalesced. At first glance, it looks like fun things to consider for list building. Do you shoot your shot and go all-in on Itzl the Tamer, or build a more varied list to potentially make use of more Asterisms…
Agreed! Glad they got rid of the 'two armies in one book' vibe. Was hard to swap one army style for another if you didn't have a vast collection already. Now it should be easier to combine a little bit of everything.
I dont know if Ryan was just playing devils advocate, but "it could have been worse" isnt a good reason to like this system. The further the great plan ability feels like a designer thought it would be cute but didnt think it through at all, and as a Seraphon player since 7th edition fantasy, I would have honestly preferred the "Further" ability be just missing entirely so we didnt have to pay for the potential power. Plus then there would be more design space to access multiple asterisms instead of that space being filled with this ability. Something as simple as "Cold Blooded: Seraphon units ignore negative modifiers to control score" would have added so much more interest and flavor to the army
He makes a fair point with it, because there have been a lot of armies who've received less functional rules than ours, but I'm sure he'd also agree that it's not an argument for bad design. It is, however, good to take things a little less seriously. That being said, I also don't really like the Further the Great plan design. The idea is cool but I'm not sure it translates well to the table. We'll have to wait and see.
Yeah, Jonas sums it up for me pretty well here. More trying to stay on the positive side of things, seeing as many awkward nerfs as we have for the faction focuses/indexes already. It’s interesting to follow the trajectory of one’s opinions on the indexes as more have come out. At the beginning I would have been much more down on these, but in light of the others it really doesn’t strike me as so rough, especially considering GW often punishes factions for being as good as Seraphon much harder than this (Slaanesh can’t seem to stop paying for 2018)
I think some of the best Seraphon wins will be without the second asterirsm. I feel baiting the opponent to do something at the end of second turn to stop "Further the great plan" could be very valuable in some matchups.
I'd love that, very flavourful. That being said, there's so much I want on his warscroll that I'm not sure I want him to mess with the great plan instead 😁
I really hate the further the great plan ability. If you go first in round 2 you cant even really control two of the "side-quests" (they could just retreat their general away from you or teleport a unit in). In a lot of games your entire army ability is going to be "Pick one of these 4 basic bonuses", which is just so boring. Its effectively just a more boring version of LRL's Aspects of War Also a little worried that the Slann will be overpriced to compensate for the possibilities of the 4+ recursion ability. Would have much preferred replacing Further the Great Plan with a classic Lizardmen rule like Cold-Blooded or Predatory Fighters, and replace Celestial Reinforcements with an ability to switch your active asterism like you could in 2e.
Sure, but that's only on a 3+, wholly within 12'' and only efficient against two/three armies. I'm not saying the healing isn't nice. All of those abilities are good. I just think they could give the healing for free while reserving power. 🤷♂️
Some fun battle traits that offer a bit of tactical flexibility!
Thanks, Caleb! Looking forward to finishing your review as well!
Caleb, can I have your autograph?
Thanks for saying hey on the channel, Caleb! Dig your stuff too!
What do you think can you activate vengeance of azyr after your charge phase when you have a oldblood on carno in combat so he triggers blood frenzie in the upcoming combat Phase you could have two carnos fighting before the enemy can react most of the time
I like the new traits! Never loved the Starborn vs Coalesced. At first glance, it looks like fun things to consider for list building. Do you shoot your shot and go all-in on Itzl the Tamer, or build a more varied list to potentially make use of more Asterisms…
Agreed! Glad they got rid of the 'two armies in one book' vibe. Was hard to swap one army style for another if you didn't have a vast collection already. Now it should be easier to combine a little bit of everything.
81 minutes! Smokes this gonna be fun 🎉
We couldn't help ourselves 😂
I dont know if Ryan was just playing devils advocate, but "it could have been worse" isnt a good reason to like this system. The further the great plan ability feels like a designer thought it would be cute but didnt think it through at all, and as a Seraphon player since 7th edition fantasy, I would have honestly preferred the "Further" ability be just missing entirely so we didnt have to pay for the potential power. Plus then there would be more design space to access multiple asterisms instead of that space being filled with this ability.
Something as simple as "Cold Blooded: Seraphon units ignore negative modifiers to control score" would have added so much more interest and flavor to the army
He makes a fair point with it, because there have been a lot of armies who've received less functional rules than ours, but I'm sure he'd also agree that it's not an argument for bad design. It is, however, good to take things a little less seriously.
That being said, I also don't really like the Further the Great plan design. The idea is cool but I'm not sure it translates well to the table. We'll have to wait and see.
Yeah, Jonas sums it up for me pretty well here. More trying to stay on the positive side of things, seeing as many awkward nerfs as we have for the faction focuses/indexes already.
It’s interesting to follow the trajectory of one’s opinions on the indexes as more have come out. At the beginning I would have been much more down on these, but in light of the others it really doesn’t strike me as so rough, especially considering GW often punishes factions for being as good as Seraphon much harder than this (Slaanesh can’t seem to stop paying for 2018)
I think some of the best Seraphon wins will be without the second asterirsm. I feel baiting the opponent to do something at the end of second turn to stop "Further the great plan" could be very valuable in some matchups.
Oh man, yes, that'd be super cool and satisfactory!
Kroak might alter the great plan kinda like ushoran. Im fine witj the traits, im more worried about points lol.
I'd love that, very flavourful. That being said, there's so much I want on his warscroll that I'm not sure I want him to mess with the great plan instead 😁
I really hate the further the great plan ability. If you go first in round 2 you cant even really control two of the "side-quests" (they could just retreat their general away from you or teleport a unit in). In a lot of games your entire army ability is going to be "Pick one of these 4 basic bonuses", which is just so boring. Its effectively just a more boring version of LRL's Aspects of War
Also a little worried that the Slann will be overpriced to compensate for the possibilities of the 4+ recursion ability.
Would have much preferred replacing Further the Great Plan with a classic Lizardmen rule like Cold-Blooded or Predatory Fighters, and replace Celestial Reinforcements with an ability to switch your active asterism like you could in 2e.
We think the same things, it seems. I hope we're both wrong and things end up being fantastic for us. Fingers crossed!
So seraphon get as a subfaction the demage output that nurgle gets with all their battle traits 😅 plus they move 3"
You could sum it up like that, yes.😂
Poor nurgle boys.
Nurgle can do alot more than that vs the fixed sub faction.
You'll be crying about disease soon lol.
I really like the new rules. So Coalesced dont need to pay for the sins of Starborn. And you can take what you really like and stay semi-competitive
Yeah, it's looking good for coalesced. Here's hoping you're right about taking what you like. That's all I want for the army really.
I think you are underestimating the value of spamming AoE healing to cure infection, Tzeentch flame, and Nurgle rot.
Sure, but that's only on a 3+, wholly within 12'' and only efficient against two/three armies. I'm not saying the healing isn't nice. All of those abilities are good. I just think they could give the healing for free while reserving power. 🤷♂️