I agree with you about the recent definitions/divisions between bike-packing and touring. Although the cycling etymologists claim it has its roots in the 70s, I never heard it mentioned in the UK during the 90s or 00s - same with 'credit card touring'. Back then, at the end of a racing season we'd often go on youth hostel weekends using road-racing bikes with an extended seat-pack, or a clip-on rack, occasionally with a bar-bag. Little did we realise that we were bike-packing pioneers! It's similar to the way that marketing departments have taken hold of 'gravel' for commercial reasons - get past the labels and there's a lot of fun to be had.
Get past the labels ... couldn't agree more. I remember us meeting quite a few 'bikepackers' on the Pennine Way back in 1987 but as you say they wouldn't have had a clue they were 25+ years or so ahead of the times! Pioneers indeed!
@@geraldpadfield490 Those autumnal trips were great fun after a racing season. We'd be on winter bikes, with fitted guards, but we didn't have racks & panniers. Going back to my dad's generation they'd do the same with oversized cotton-duck saddlebags.
Ah, great minds ... As a seasoned traveller in many countries I'd be really interested in your video take on this, Jay. Got your recent clipless one on the list to watch!
Thanks, Frank. I enjoy messing about with the GoPro/editing and sharing this little corner of the cycling world. Good to know a few people enjoy the content too! 🙂
Great conversation as always and good route, I've found many of those in the last few weeks!. My friend uses panniers and a top bag on either a MTB or Road/Gravel bike and I use bike packing bags on either of those bikes, although we both do the same routes and this maybe on or off road, Pennine bridal way/sandstone way/Hebridean way/jog etc We might even use different bikes to complete the same route. So lots of multi day packing/touring etc. on MTB/Gravel/Adventure bikes on and off road! haha
To me it's all cycle touring and bike packing is just a subdivision. Likewise credit card touring or even fixed centre touring. But I do think the title 'cycle touring' conjures up an image of a middle aged males in tweeds.😀 It's all about exploring on any sort of bike. Just my view and it irks me the squabbles that break out over the subject. Cracking scenery and what perfect weather; Whatever the kit, just get out there is spot on advice. Thanks for the video and taking time to share your views on cycle touring and backpacking.
Thanks for the comment, Colin. Cycle touring can definitely conjure up the more traditional images, can't it? It always make me think of the classic steel tourer, maybe bar end shifters, panniers front and back and relatively low daily mileage ... but for an extended period (or RTW). I'm still trying to work out what happened to fell walking/fell running and backpacking; it seems to be all hiking, trail running and fast-packing these days! Same kinda think, different terminology and yes, at the end of the day just get out there and enjoy! 🙂
Great video and chat. For me, I'd say marketing shenanigans aside (which most of us fall for, right?!), it's a lot to do with terrain. Yeah, you could do 100 miles of Lakes singletrack on a hybrid cycle touring bike with massive wobbly panniers, but you and your bike would have an absolute mare. Whereas the slimmer, more 'centred' and low profile set up of more 'bikepacking' frame bags et al is going to work so much better when things get tech. But at the end of the day... who cares... just labels so head out and just enjoy the biking... I mean cycling... errr, I mean bicycling, on whatever enduro line, downhill course, singletrack, double-track blah dee blah you want to (doh! gets coat...)
I'm pretty much in agreement with your 4th definition. I started cycling in the early 1970s and then it was cycle touring ( hence the CTC or Cycle Touring Club ). Bike packing is a fairly modern term. In my mind bike packing evokes the image of being totally self sufficient whereas cycle touring would involve using paid accommodation.
Thanks for the comment, Gerald. Interesting distinction there around accommodation. I remember having breakfast in a hotel years ago (I think when we were cycling JOGLE) and there was a debriefing going on for a bicycle group in the corner - they were (apparently) getting luggage transported between hotels and had all the route planning and stops planned out for them by the tour/ride leader. Never seen a bunch of cyclists looking so relaxed about the day ahead! Definitely not bikepacking, that one. 🙂
Great definitions… IMHO #2 is the most accurate description. OR.. my definition is Bikepacking you wear MTB shoes… Cycle Touring you wear leather sandals?. … just my cheeky 2pence 😊
For me it don’t matter, as you say if you are out there enjoying it, all’s good. One term I do struggle with however is “Mountain” bike, what happened to the ATB ? After all more road bikes go up Mountains than Mountain bikes
Thanks for the comment. Yes, it does seem like ATB would be a better description. Perhaps 'Mountain' stuck as it sounded more grand (not that half the MTBs sold ever go near one!), or MTB is slightly more phonetically appealing? Who knows, all good though! Happy cycling! 🙂
Nice. In the 90s the French used VTT - Velo Tout Terrain - which is a far better term and falls in-line with ATB. Most of my off-roading 97-98 was in the forests in and around Paris - not a mountain for miles!
I reckon bikepacking started when mountain bikers wanted to go on short tours and there were no fixing points on their bikes. I'm a tourer as I love long trips with some comfort, got to have a tent, mattrass and a few changes of clothes. Like you back garden😂
Haha, yes the back garden needs a bit of TLC at the moment. Problem is a bit of nice weather and I'm always going to be on the bike rather than weeding and tidying! 🙂I get a bit of stick sometimes for carrying 'too much' but similar to you I'm interested in more comfort, including when off the bike. A bit more kit/weight and a bit slower is fine by me if it makes for a more comfortable evening/morning in camp - a bicycle tourer at heart I think. Happy cycling!
Id always just looked at bike packing as a subcategory of touring with specific equipment and some marketing shenanigans thrown in. Some nice gear coming out of it though, im liking the idea of more aero luggage for my commute.
That's a nice definition and yes, marketing shenanigans a plenty. The gear options for commuting are incredible these days. Thanks for the comment and happy cycling!
In America, bikepacking, touring, commuting, road and criteiums all have one thing in common, that being that the majority of the bikes are hanging in their owners' garages and hidden in shed gathering dust.
Back in 1960-61, over 60 years ago, I was with my family living in England for about 9 months (while my father was doing some post-doc studying at a university in Manchester). I had my 9th birthday toward the end of our stay (yeah, I'm now in my 70s and live in the Austin, Tx, area of the U.S.). Anyway, at that time our family used to do some occasional day-trip hiking in the Glossup area where we lived. There was a considerable amount of land designated as "commons", and you could hike off road through what looked like private land - much as you seem to now be doing. We would come upon herds of cows and/or sheep occasionally on our walks, so I suppose "commons" were being used by farmers to pasture their animals. Do "commons" still exist in the U.K., and if so, is that where you are able to bikepack (you too seem to encounter farm animals occasionally)? I think it would be harder to find such areas in the U.S., other than in national or state parks, open to cyclists and hikers. Anyway, enjoyed the scenery in your video - brought back some old memories.
Greeting from across the pond and thanks for sharing some of those UK memories! Yes, we still have common land and a reasonable network of public footpaths and bridleways/access roads that can be used by outdoor enthusiasts. I guess the US would be different? I always find it strange how these - particularly in places like the Yorkshire Dales - can often go right through peoples farms/land and you can find yourself suddenly eyeball to eyeball with all kinds of animals (friendly and otherwise!). All in though, I don't think people quite realise just how much of the country's land is totally off limits. For the UK the book called 'Book of Trespass' by Nick Hayes lays this out quite nicely (and was quite an eye opener to me when I read it a while back)! Happy cycling!
I don't think it matters at all tbh. In many ways i feel its bit of a marketing ploy. Agree re komoot. Don't think its great off rd. Ill look at alternatives. Any recommendations ?
I think you're right, Mark. Unfortunately cycling is subject to the same dubious marketing that everything else has. Re Komoot I'm generally a fan but you have to be a bit careful with the planning - which I definitely wasn't on this ride. Where I think it does need improving is the Bicycle Touring option as this can often go way into full MTB territory (been caught out a couple of times by this fully loaded on tours). Only alternatives I've used have been Strava and good old Google maps and Komoot wins out for overall UX. If I come across anything better I'll come back to the thread and drop a note. 🙂
@onemorecyclist thanks for the reply really appreciate it. My komoot is up 4 renewal.......£60😬 Ride with GPS might be sn option I guess as potentially OS maps which looks ok at£35 but can't download 2 Wahoo etc
It's ALL touring "Bike Packers" just have pretentious modern triangular luggage If you've not been drinking burn water for long enough so that stopping in a coffee shop means you can taste the chlorine in the tap water which made the coffee, then you were just on a bike ride
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
I agree with you about the recent definitions/divisions between bike-packing and touring. Although the cycling etymologists claim it has its roots in the 70s, I never heard it mentioned in the UK during the 90s or 00s - same with 'credit card touring'.
Back then, at the end of a racing season we'd often go on youth hostel weekends using road-racing bikes with an extended seat-pack, or a clip-on rack, occasionally with a bar-bag. Little did we realise that we were bike-packing pioneers!
It's similar to the way that marketing departments have taken hold of 'gravel' for commercial reasons - get past the labels and there's a lot of fun to be had.
Get past the labels ... couldn't agree more. I remember us meeting quite a few 'bikepackers' on the Pennine Way back in 1987 but as you say they wouldn't have had a clue they were 25+ years or so ahead of the times! Pioneers indeed!
@@clippingin1593 exactly what we used to do in our cycling club.
@@geraldpadfield490 Those autumnal trips were great fun after a racing season. We'd be on winter bikes, with fitted guards, but we didn't have racks & panniers. Going back to my dad's generation they'd do the same with oversized cotton-duck saddlebags.
Great video but it now puts the one I was going to make on the exact same subject on the back burner!!
Ah, great minds ... As a seasoned traveller in many countries I'd be really interested in your video take on this, Jay. Got your recent clipless one on the list to watch!
I agree with your definitions.
Your videos have the best scenery and accompanying music of anything on RUclips, thanks for taking us along.
Thanks, Frank. I enjoy messing about with the GoPro/editing and sharing this little corner of the cycling world. Good to know a few people enjoy the content too! 🙂
Great conversation as always and good route, I've found many of those in the last few weeks!. My friend uses panniers and a top bag on either a MTB or Road/Gravel bike and I use bike packing bags on either of those bikes, although we both do the same routes and this maybe on or off road, Pennine bridal way/sandstone way/Hebridean way/jog etc We might even use different bikes to complete the same route. So lots of multi day packing/touring etc. on MTB/Gravel/Adventure bikes on and off road! haha
Thanks. Lots of options and interchangeability (that may not be a word) going on there with your bikes. Love it! 🙂
Thanks for the shout-out on the Slate Delfs bunker. What a place.
It's a cracking place up there for a bit of off-road riding. Look forward to shamelessly pinching more ideas for cycling destinations in the future. 😉
To me it's all cycle touring and bike packing is just a subdivision. Likewise credit card touring or even fixed centre touring.
But I do think the title 'cycle touring' conjures up an image of a middle aged males in tweeds.😀
It's all about exploring on any sort of bike. Just my view and it irks me the squabbles that break out over the subject.
Cracking scenery and what perfect weather; Whatever the kit, just get out there is spot on advice.
Thanks for the video and taking time to share your views on cycle touring and backpacking.
Thanks for the comment, Colin. Cycle touring can definitely conjure up the more traditional images, can't it? It always make me think of the classic steel tourer, maybe bar end shifters, panniers front and back and relatively low daily mileage ... but for an extended period (or RTW). I'm still trying to work out what happened to fell walking/fell running and backpacking; it seems to be all hiking, trail running and fast-packing these days! Same kinda think, different terminology and yes, at the end of the day just get out there and enjoy! 🙂
Great video and chat. For me, I'd say marketing shenanigans aside (which most of us fall for, right?!), it's a lot to do with terrain. Yeah, you could do 100 miles of Lakes singletrack on a hybrid cycle touring bike with massive wobbly panniers, but you and your bike would have an absolute mare. Whereas the slimmer, more 'centred' and low profile set up of more 'bikepacking' frame bags et al is going to work so much better when things get tech. But at the end of the day... who cares... just labels so head out and just enjoy the biking... I mean cycling... errr, I mean bicycling, on whatever enduro line, downhill course, singletrack, double-track blah dee blah you want to (doh! gets coat...)
No coats left on the comments rack! Head out and just enjoy the biking ... couldn't agree more, mate! 🙂
Brilliant video.
Thanks, Matt.
I'm pretty much in agreement with your 4th definition. I started cycling in the early 1970s and then it was cycle touring ( hence the CTC or Cycle Touring Club ). Bike packing is a fairly modern term. In my mind bike packing evokes the image of being totally self sufficient whereas cycle touring would involve using paid accommodation.
Great video lovely scenery.
Thanks for the comment, Gerald. Interesting distinction there around accommodation. I remember having breakfast in a hotel years ago (I think when we were cycling JOGLE) and there was a debriefing going on for a bicycle group in the corner - they were (apparently) getting luggage transported between hotels and had all the route planning and stops planned out for them by the tour/ride leader. Never seen a bunch of cyclists looking so relaxed about the day ahead! Definitely not bikepacking, that one. 🙂
Thanks, Sean
Great definitions… IMHO #2 is the most accurate description. OR.. my definition is Bikepacking you wear MTB shoes… Cycle Touring you wear leather sandals?. … just my cheeky 2pence 😊
Cheers, Gordon. Yep, with you on the sandals there! 😉
For me it don’t matter, as you say if you are out there enjoying it, all’s good. One term I do struggle with however is “Mountain” bike, what happened to the ATB ? After all more road bikes go up Mountains than Mountain bikes
Thanks for the comment. Yes, it does seem like ATB would be a better description. Perhaps 'Mountain' stuck as it sounded more grand (not that half the MTBs sold ever go near one!), or MTB is slightly more phonetically appealing? Who knows, all good though! Happy cycling! 🙂
Nice. In the 90s the French used VTT - Velo Tout Terrain - which is a far better term and falls in-line with ATB.
Most of my off-roading 97-98 was in the forests in and around Paris - not a mountain for miles!
I reckon bikepacking started when mountain bikers wanted to go on short tours and there were no fixing points on their bikes. I'm a tourer as I love long trips with some comfort, got to have a tent, mattrass and a few changes of clothes. Like you back garden😂
Haha, yes the back garden needs a bit of TLC at the moment. Problem is a bit of nice weather and I'm always going to be on the bike rather than weeding and tidying! 🙂I get a bit of stick sometimes for carrying 'too much' but similar to you I'm interested in more comfort, including when off the bike. A bit more kit/weight and a bit slower is fine by me if it makes for a more comfortable evening/morning in camp - a bicycle tourer at heart I think. Happy cycling!
Id always just looked at bike packing as a subcategory of touring with specific equipment and some marketing shenanigans thrown in.
Some nice gear coming out of it though, im liking the idea of more aero luggage for my commute.
That's a nice definition and yes, marketing shenanigans a plenty. The gear options for commuting are incredible these days. Thanks for the comment and happy cycling!
In America, bikepacking, touring, commuting, road and criteiums all have one thing in common, that being that the majority of the bikes are hanging in their owners' garages and hidden in shed gathering dust.
Yep. I think once you store a bike away somewhere where it's going to be a faff to get it back out and ready to ride that's it - just gathering dust.
Back in 1960-61, over 60 years ago, I was with my family living in England for about 9 months (while my father was doing some post-doc studying at a university in Manchester). I had my 9th birthday toward the end of our stay (yeah, I'm now in my 70s and live in the Austin, Tx, area of the U.S.). Anyway, at that time our family used to do some occasional day-trip hiking in the Glossup area where we lived. There was a considerable amount of land designated as "commons", and you could hike off road through what looked like private land - much as you seem to now be doing. We would come upon herds of cows and/or sheep occasionally on our walks, so I suppose "commons" were being used by farmers to pasture their animals. Do "commons" still exist in the U.K., and if so, is that where you are able to bikepack (you too seem to encounter farm animals occasionally)? I think it would be harder to find such areas in the U.S., other than in national or state parks, open to cyclists and hikers. Anyway, enjoyed the scenery in your video - brought back some old memories.
Greeting from across the pond and thanks for sharing some of those UK memories! Yes, we still have common land and a reasonable network of public footpaths and bridleways/access roads that can be used by outdoor enthusiasts. I guess the US would be different? I always find it strange how these - particularly in places like the Yorkshire Dales - can often go right through peoples farms/land and you can find yourself suddenly eyeball to eyeball with all kinds of animals (friendly and otherwise!). All in though, I don't think people quite realise just how much of the country's land is totally off limits. For the UK the book called 'Book of Trespass' by Nick Hayes lays this out quite nicely (and was quite an eye opener to me when I read it a while back)! Happy cycling!
@@onemorecyclist Just bought he book you recommended. Look forward to the read. Carry on with your cycling, and hope to have some updates soon.
I don't think it matters at all tbh. In many ways i feel its bit of a marketing ploy.
Agree re komoot. Don't think its great off rd. Ill look at alternatives. Any recommendations ?
I think you're right, Mark. Unfortunately cycling is subject to the same dubious marketing that everything else has. Re Komoot I'm generally a fan but you have to be a bit careful with the planning - which I definitely wasn't on this ride. Where I think it does need improving is the Bicycle Touring option as this can often go way into full MTB territory (been caught out a couple of times by this fully loaded on tours). Only alternatives I've used have been Strava and good old Google maps and Komoot wins out for overall UX. If I come across anything better I'll come back to the thread and drop a note. 🙂
@onemorecyclist thanks for the reply really appreciate it. My komoot is up 4 renewal.......£60😬
Ride with GPS might be sn option I guess as potentially OS maps which looks ok at£35 but can't download 2 Wahoo etc
Not something I really think about. I just ride my bike.
It's ALL touring
"Bike Packers" just have pretentious modern triangular luggage
If you've not been drinking burn water for long enough so that stopping in a coffee shop means you can taste the chlorine in the tap water which made the coffee, then you were just on a bike ride
😆