I recently re build my lathe and it had hardened ways. Honestly, just use a power grinder. I used one and it worked just fine. The key to success with a power grinder is to control the rate of material removal. I chose to use an air grinder as they weigh less and are less powerful, and I used some 80 grit sanding discs. One pass only took of 1-2 tenths. So if you have to go 2 thousands down that would be 10 or more passes. which is not bad. It took a few days and I did all the finishing work with emery disks which are even less aggressive. The important thing is control. as long as you know how much material is coming off and you have options to adjust that amount that's it.
Your initial idea using the bed as a guide sounds more practical as fewer things could go wrong. If those linear guides are accurate and rigid enough though, it would be awesome to see your universal bed grinder idea come to life. Grain of salt with my comment since I've never done anything like this before.
Thank you for watching and commenting! I saw few homemade lathe bed grinding videos. Some of them are very sad, even comments are disabled :-) I hope to get a successful grind at the end of this project. Cheers.
I have a very similar project. It is a Colchester Mascot 1600. It too have hardened bed ways. Mine is similar worn to yours. The difference is that the main carriage on mine has one V at the front side and and one flat way at the rear where yours have two V ways for the carriage. So mine has one flat way at the front and one flat at the rear I have done some test work, but I havent scraped, I have used a angle grinder and a 50 cm long tool I made, similar to a straight edge. I have used the angle grinder to remove bulk material and the tool together with diamond paste for finnish on the not worn and far end of the flat way where the main carriage goes. This have proved to be a time consuming job. However it also have proved to be possible to achieve an amazing accuracy within 5/1.000 mm, or 2/10.000 of an inch. I plan on bringing the two flat ways level and parallell with each other first. That will be easy measuring with straigt edge, precision level and a dial on a precision stand I have made. Next I need to make a horizontal reference edge. I plan on making this edge on the rear of the lathe, the non alligned edge wich is there today is not far from true. I plan on using a 1mm stainless steel wire loaded up to near the yeld point and run it near the edge on the rear. I can then scrape/grind this edge until it becomes absolutely parallel with my steel wire. I have made a micrometer attachment with electrical connection so I get an electric signal when my micrometer touches the steel wire. In this way I should be able to get the horizontal edge straight to within 1/100 mm My plan is then to make a support for a grinding attachment that will run on the the two flat ways and on the the horizontal edge on the rear. With this attachment I will grind the two remainin V-ways.
That sounds like a plan, except... you will end up with only partially ground v-ways. I thought about it, too, and came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t really work out. You either need to make an extended linear jig for the grinding head, or scrape it manually, all the way. Currently, I am trying to adapt a sawzal to become a “power scraper”. Watch out for the video about it, when it comes out. The power scraper should make life much, much easier and allow to speed the manual scraping process many times over! Another thing: using grinding paste sounds interesting! How do you think the finished surface will act against the mating surface? Is it going to retain oil? Is it going to slide well? Keep us updated! Cheers
I didnt mention this problem with lack of travel for the grinding attachment. I think it should be solvable. One method is to lenghten the ways on the tail stock end. This would be the more time consuming method. The other method is to place the grinder so that it do reach one end of the ways and then reposition the grinder to the other end of the attachment so it now can reach the other end of the ways. I think this method probably is the easiest to use, and I think the accuracy of the now ground ways should still be very good. The last alternative is to scrape/grind the end portion of the ways manually, but it is more difficult to accurately measure the V-ways than the flat one, so I am not sure about this method. But I guess this method should give an ok result too. When grinding (or more correctly lapping) with diamond paste the finnish naturally becomes very good, and this might be a problem. But I think that problem can be solved by applying a flaking type of scraping to the surface as the last step. I look forward to see how your project goes. I hope I can start up mine project again sometimes later this year. Maybe I put up a video of it too.
You can always rent a milling machine from climax potable machine's. But park that or any lathe bed next to it zero it in .bolt it together. And grind it..my boss sent out a totally disassembled lathes .year's later I learned field service machining. Supper finishings. Some customers asked for 12 micron finish. I gave them 7 micron.😅
You’re a brave soul attempting to scrape a hardened bed. Some pretty clever ideas for getting the job done though, and they actually sound viable, unlike many similar RUclips vids where you watch some poor misguided soul make things worse and worse due to easy access to carbide and a complete lack of any understanding of machine geometry lol.
Thank you very much. It’s been quite some time since the video, but, I haven’t given up on the lathe, just never really got to it, yet. I AM preparing something interesting for it, though, such as diy powered scraper, new slab floor, etc. It will be a beautiful machine when I’m done with it. Cheers.
@@TinkeringNerd Check “lookcreations” videos if you haven’t already. He scrapes machines and has a very solid understanding of machine geometry and the metrology of accurately measuring it.
Nice to see others scraping work. The time spent now is going to be a payoff in the end and well for many happy ending machine work projects. Nice to find your channel and subscribe. Thank you. Lance & Patrick.
Good luck and thanks for sharing! I’m embarking on a similar approach to my 12” atlas. I’ll reach out if I discover any magic tricks. Either way, your video is a helpful step to getting this done. Thanks again.
Thank you for watching and supporting my channel! I know it’s been a long time since I made a real progress with any of the projects. Meanwhile, I had this idea to make a power scraper which should make the scraping much easier, ridding me of the necessity of building a linear grinding jig. In any case, thanks again and be on the lookout for new videos. Cheers.
Make sure your parallel straight edge is actually parallel, you only showed scraping one side, but both sides need to be done to get accurate measurements from it, use a micrometer to check it very carefully, also with 2 thou to go, you can be much more aggressive in scraping the ends in, IE rough scraping at first, not finish scraping.
Thank you. In the video I just “scratched the surface” of this project, pun intended :) yes, you are right, both sides need to be made parallel. I will be using precision level and the device called aeroplane, just have to make it, first. I know I take too long, but I’ll get to it, eventually. Cheers.
I have the same issue with my lathe , i lack the knowledge to no if i should just get a new one or keep moving forward on my restore . My gut is telling to stop . im about $1,000 in and its steel a 500 lb usless heap in my mind . i have a south bend heavy 10L . the kind used by gun smiths that can receive large barrels threw the chuck
You spent 1k on the lathe itself, on the stuff for it, or both? I don’t know what you got there, but I’d probably try and restore it. Unless I had money to buy something worthy.. SB10 is a good machine, proven by decades. I paid 1.1k for mine and I still think I got a good deal on it :)
Good afternoon friend. I'm looking for knowledge to restore my vise, I still don't know how to maintain alignment after the sweep. here in Brazil resources are minimal
Tinkering Nerd i had an old joinville lathe (brazilian/german) whom are very old and worn, but isnt matter much if your level of precision are about 1/10 of mm like mine...that error for me are ok. anyhow greetings from brazil! keep going are a fun and very interessing to watch project
Eu estou passando a mesma situação com minha plaina de pórticos. Construí alguns dispositivos pra fazer as guias mais precisas. Está levando muitos meses. Estou quase desistindo.
Today October 22 2022 I was quoted $12,000 to $15,000 Canadian dollars to grind and then scrape a South Bend 13" Lathe Bed. The old girl is not worth that kind of money to resurface. I will use it as it is.
@@TinkeringNerd I think you are both referring to different things. The original poster means he was quoted $15k just to grind and scrape the bedways - the very job you are showing your intention to do in the video. Not for the lathe itself. I would be very interested in a follow up video to this. Even if its just you show the lathe today and explaining what happened.
Yes, 1100 is what I paid for the lathe. I can’t believe it’s so expensive to grind it. For some time now, it’s been assigned a low priority project, meaning I haven’t done much of anything else on the lathe, but I did not give up on it. Please be patient, the project to be continued..
I put it on a back burner for awhile. Been trying to build a powered scraper. Seemingly, I take too long to make any progress, just been spread too thin between everything going on in life.. cheers.
I don’t know if it is possible. If ways were flame hardened, then it should be at least couple millimeters deep. Induction heat treatment can be less than that. If you ground that much off, maybe you want to consider putting down hardened steel strips. I think if you try to heat treat the cast iron ways, you may run into a whole another set of problems like warping, cracking, etc.
It's real challenge to grind lathe ways. Great chance to fail them at all. BTW you shouldn't use upper face of V-ways for measurements. It's not working surface. Good luck tho'!
I'm not sure, haven't dealt with this kind of bed. But you'll need special device, I don't know how its called in english, we call it "airplane" or "bridge" (T-shaped). Machinist level is put on it.
In english it’s called kingway jig or king way alignment tool. But russian has completely different shape compared to those I saw on practicalmachinist.
We is to do reconditioning of all types of machines having cast iron beds, such as lathe, milling, centerless grinder etc. by hand scrapping for more than 25 years. And also we is to restore the accuracy of C I surface plates of 3' by 9' by hand scrapping only. I am from Mumbai, India
You should acquire a surface grinder. Its journal bearing is much more accurate than your 1 HP motor. The most important part of restoration old machine is how fast and how sharp you can grind your scraping tool.
@@TinkeringNerd, your carbide blade needs to be shinny aside from sharp otherwise the sharpness wont last long. I have seen it at a trade show but never experience myself. They use very fine diamond wheel with low speed spindle. The spindle has accuracy of surface grinder or something similar.
:/ Take the lathe to a professional company that can either do it for you or advise you properly or run the risk of ruining an expensive and somewhat rare lathe. If you don't fully understand how to scrape a lathe bed then you really should not tackle this sort of work. Its your lathe today and you feel like you can do what you want with it but it will not always be your lathe and its your duty to look after it until that time.
J800613, I don’t think he ruined anything with the little scraping he did and he may have even helped it some which hasn’t been clarified. Since more material still presides there is plenty to compensate if he did do something wrong. I think in this case it’s better to be constructive than to criticize his endeavors. Not everyone can afford to send their equipment to a professional shop and can probably replace the machine at that point so a diy makes more sense.
Why don't you offer some words of advise if your so knowledgeable about machine reconditioning instead of a worthless dick hole comment. I'm betting because you have no clue.
I recently re build my lathe and it had hardened ways. Honestly, just use a power grinder. I used one and it worked just fine. The key to success with a power grinder is to control the rate of material removal. I chose to use an air grinder as they weigh less and are less powerful, and I used some 80 grit sanding discs. One pass only took of 1-2 tenths. So if you have to go 2 thousands down that would be 10 or more passes. which is not bad. It took a few days and I did all the finishing work with emery disks which are even less aggressive. The important thing is control. as long as you know how much material is coming off and you have options to adjust that amount that's it.
Your initial idea using the bed as a guide sounds more practical as fewer things could go wrong. If those linear guides are accurate and rigid enough though, it would be awesome to see your universal bed grinder idea come to life. Grain of salt with my comment since I've never done anything like this before.
Thank you for watching and commenting! I saw few homemade lathe bed grinding videos. Some of them are very sad, even comments are disabled :-)
I hope to get a successful grind at the end of this project.
Cheers.
I agree this seems to be more modern and logic approach.
Those bed ways looked perfect ...😥
They looked good to me, too, when I was buying it. But they needed to be made perfect. Cheers.
I think your last Idea ist the best. I want make ist so too.
I have a very similar project. It is a Colchester Mascot 1600. It too have hardened bed ways. Mine is similar worn to yours. The difference is that the main carriage on mine has one V at the front side and and one flat way at the rear where yours have two V ways for the carriage. So mine has one flat way at the front and one flat at the rear
I have done some test work, but I havent scraped, I have used a angle grinder and a 50 cm long tool I made, similar to a straight edge. I have used the angle grinder to remove bulk material and the tool together with diamond paste for finnish on the not worn and far end of the flat way where the main carriage goes. This have proved to be a time consuming job. However it also have proved to be possible to achieve an amazing accuracy within 5/1.000 mm, or 2/10.000 of an inch.
I plan on bringing the two flat ways level and parallell with each other first. That will be easy measuring with straigt edge, precision level and a dial on a precision stand I have made.
Next I need to make a horizontal reference edge. I plan on making this edge on the rear of the lathe, the non alligned edge wich is there today is not far from true. I plan on using a 1mm stainless steel wire loaded up to near the yeld point and run it near the edge on the rear. I can then scrape/grind this edge until it becomes absolutely parallel with my steel wire. I have made a micrometer attachment with electrical connection so I get an electric signal when my micrometer touches the steel wire. In this way I should be able to get the horizontal edge straight to within 1/100 mm
My plan is then to make a support for a grinding attachment that will run on the the two flat ways and on the the horizontal edge on the rear. With this attachment I will grind the two remainin V-ways.
That sounds like a plan, except... you will end up with only partially ground v-ways. I thought about it, too, and came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t really work out. You either need to make an extended linear jig for the grinding head, or scrape it manually, all the way.
Currently, I am trying to adapt a sawzal to become a “power scraper”. Watch out for the video about it, when it comes out. The power scraper should make life much, much easier and allow to speed the manual scraping process many times over!
Another thing: using grinding paste sounds interesting! How do you think the finished surface will act against the mating surface? Is it going to retain oil? Is it going to slide well? Keep us updated!
Cheers
I didnt mention this problem with lack of travel for the grinding attachment. I think it should be solvable. One method is to lenghten the ways on the tail stock end. This would be the more time consuming method. The other method is to place the grinder so that it do reach one end of the ways and then reposition the grinder to the other end of the attachment so it now can reach the other end of the ways. I think this method probably is the easiest to use, and I think the accuracy of the now ground ways should still be very good. The last alternative is to scrape/grind the end portion of the ways manually, but it is more difficult to accurately measure the V-ways than the flat one, so I am not sure about this method. But I guess this method should give an ok result too.
When grinding (or more correctly lapping) with diamond paste the finnish naturally becomes very good, and this might be a problem. But I think that problem can be solved by applying a flaking type of scraping to the surface as the last step.
I look forward to see how your project goes. I hope I can start up mine project again sometimes later this year. Maybe I put up a video of it too.
Diamond particles from the paste will stuck into cast iron of the ways. So you'll have abrasive diamond ways.
You can always rent a milling machine from climax potable machine's. But park that or any lathe bed next to it zero it in .bolt it together. And grind it..my boss sent out a totally disassembled lathes .year's later I learned field service machining. Supper finishings. Some customers asked for 12 micron finish. I gave them 7 micron.😅
You’re a brave soul attempting to scrape a hardened bed. Some pretty clever ideas for getting the job done though, and they actually sound viable, unlike many similar RUclips vids where you watch some poor misguided soul make things worse and worse due to easy access to carbide and a complete lack of any understanding of machine geometry lol.
Thank you very much. It’s been quite some time since the video, but, I haven’t given up on the lathe, just never really got to it, yet. I AM preparing something interesting for it, though, such as diy powered scraper, new slab floor, etc. It will be a beautiful machine when I’m done with it.
Cheers.
@@TinkeringNerd Check “lookcreations” videos if you haven’t already. He scrapes machines and has a very solid understanding of machine geometry and the metrology of accurately measuring it.
Great video! nice documentation
Thank you
Nice to see others scraping work. The time spent now is going to be a payoff in the end and well for many happy ending machine work projects.
Nice to find your channel and subscribe.
Thank you.
Lance & Patrick.
Thank you so much for nice words and your support!
Good luck and thanks for sharing! I’m embarking on a similar approach to my 12” atlas. I’ll reach out if I discover any magic tricks. Either way, your video is a helpful step to getting this done. Thanks again.
Thank you for watching and supporting my channel! I know it’s been a long time since I made a real progress with any of the projects. Meanwhile, I had this idea to make a power scraper which should make the scraping much easier, ridding me of the necessity of building a linear grinding jig. In any case, thanks again and be on the lookout for new videos.
Cheers.
Send the bed out to be ground by professionals, scrape the carriage and headstock to match it, and NEVER flake a lathe bed!
Make sure your parallel straight edge is actually parallel, you only showed scraping one side, but both sides need to be done to get accurate measurements from it, use a micrometer to check it very carefully, also with 2 thou to go, you can be much more aggressive in scraping the ends in, IE rough scraping at first, not finish scraping.
Thank you. In the video I just “scratched the surface” of this project, pun intended :) yes, you are right, both sides need to be made parallel. I will be using precision level and the device called aeroplane, just have to make it, first. I know I take too long, but I’ll get to it, eventually. Cheers.
I have the same issue with my lathe , i lack the knowledge to no if i should just get a new one or keep moving forward on my restore . My gut is telling to stop . im about $1,000 in and its steel a 500 lb usless heap in my mind . i have a south bend heavy 10L . the kind used by gun smiths that can receive large barrels threw the chuck
You spent 1k on the lathe itself, on the stuff for it, or both? I don’t know what you got there, but I’d probably try and restore it. Unless I had money to buy something worthy.. SB10 is a good machine, proven by decades.
I paid 1.1k for mine and I still think I got a good deal on it :)
Good afternoon friend. I'm looking for knowledge to restore my vise, I still don't know how to maintain alignment after the sweep. here in Brazil resources are minimal
thats a fun exercise, but isnt necessary for 99% of users 2 thou are nothing...but its a cool exercise and learning experience
Thanks. That’s probably the least worn surface I measured. The carriage ways are much worse. They are the ones I’m not looking forward to scrape :-)
Tinkering Nerd i had an old joinville lathe (brazilian/german) whom are very old and worn, but isnt matter much if your level of precision are about 1/10 of mm like mine...that error for me are ok. anyhow greetings from brazil! keep going are a fun and very interessing to watch project
There are some videos here on scraping carbon steel.
wonderful work you are doing, just wondering how it is turning out......best wishes, Paul
I made hardly any progress since I made the video. Work, school and kids take up most of my time. I wish I had something to show for it. Cheers.
@@TinkeringNerd Take Care my lathe friend......cheers, Paul
Eu estou passando a mesma situação com minha plaina de pórticos. Construí alguns dispositivos pra fazer as guias mais precisas. Está levando muitos meses. Estou quase desistindo.
Luciano Vasco don’t get discouraged. I decided not to make any additional linear slides to fix this lathe, I will use homemade power scraper.
Cheers.
@@TinkeringNerd obrigado por responder. Eu gostaria de ver o vídeo do seu raspador caseiro. Talves eu possa construir um também.
Luciano Vasco I’m working on it :)
Today October 22 2022 I was quoted $12,000 to $15,000 Canadian dollars to grind and then scrape a South Bend 13" Lathe Bed. The old girl is not worth that kind of money to resurface. I will use it as it is.
Wow! I paid about 1100 for mine.
@@TinkeringNerd how many years ago?
Not long before this video was posted.
@@TinkeringNerd I think you are both referring to different things. The original poster means he was quoted $15k just to grind and scrape the bedways - the very job you are showing your intention to do in the video. Not for the lathe itself.
I would be very interested in a follow up video to this. Even if its just you show the lathe today and explaining what happened.
Yes, 1100 is what I paid for the lathe. I can’t believe it’s so expensive to grind it. For some time now, it’s been assigned a low priority project, meaning I haven’t done much of anything else on the lathe, but I did not give up on it. Please be patient, the project to be continued..
Did it work out?
I put it on a back burner for awhile. Been trying to build a powered scraper. Seemingly, I take too long to make any progress, just been spread too thin between everything going on in life.. cheers.
why you don't using milling lathe?
I don’t understand the question
I'm restoring an old shaper. How can I harden surface on cast iron after grinding?
I don’t know if it is possible. If ways were flame hardened, then it should be at least couple millimeters deep. Induction heat treatment can be less than that. If you ground that much off, maybe you want to consider putting down hardened steel strips.
I think if you try to heat treat the cast iron ways, you may run into a whole another set of problems like warping, cracking, etc.
@@TinkeringNerd Here is my aproach.
ruclips.net/video/aENXdvTExoU/видео.html
It's real challenge to grind lathe ways. Great chance to fail them at all. BTW you shouldn't use upper face of V-ways for measurements. It's not working surface. Good luck tho'!
Thank you for watching and commenting! What else would I use as a reference point to take measurements?
I'm not sure, haven't dealt with this kind of bed. But you'll need special device, I don't know how its called in english, we call it "airplane" or "bridge" (T-shaped). Machinist level is put on it.
Thank you for this information!
In english it’s called kingway jig or king way alignment tool. But russian has completely different shape compared to those I saw on practicalmachinist.
The bed needs ground on a bed way grinder.
Not an option for me. Too expensive!
@@TinkeringNerd it is really the only accurate way to do it
Honestly, I think it’s debatable. I appreciate you watching and commenting!
We is to do reconditioning of all types of machines having cast iron beds, such as lathe, milling, centerless grinder etc. by hand scrapping for more than 25 years. And also we is to restore the accuracy of C I surface plates of 3' by 9' by hand scrapping only. I am from Mumbai, India
You should acquire a surface grinder. Its journal bearing is much more accurate than your 1 HP motor. The most important part of restoration old machine is how fast and how sharp you can grind your scraping tool.
Thank you for your comment. I wish getting a surface grinder was an option for me.
@@TinkeringNerd, your carbide blade needs to be shinny aside from sharp otherwise the sharpness wont last long. I have seen it at a trade show but never experience myself. They use very fine diamond wheel with low speed spindle. The spindle has accuracy of surface grinder or something similar.
Your input is very valuable! Thank you!
You need scraping with grinder.Russians do it a lot.Your ways are too hard for scraper
:/ Take the lathe to a professional company that can either do it for you or advise you properly or run the risk of ruining an expensive and somewhat rare lathe. If you don't fully understand how to scrape a lathe bed then you really should not tackle this sort of work. Its your lathe today and you feel like you can do what you want with it but it will not always be your lathe and its your duty to look after it until that time.
All profesional company doing this kind of work had gone, 40 years ago.
You ruined a perfectly good machine there numbnuts, good job.
Thanks for watching
J800613, I don’t think he ruined anything with the little scraping he did and he may have even helped it some which hasn’t been clarified. Since more material still presides there is plenty to compensate if he did do something wrong. I think in this case it’s better to be constructive than to criticize his endeavors. Not everyone can afford to send their equipment to a professional shop and can probably replace the machine at that point so a diy makes more sense.
Why don't you offer some words of advise if your so knowledgeable about machine reconditioning instead of a worthless dick hole comment. I'm betting because you have no clue.