Andy Stanley, Concupiscence, & Embracing Homosexuality
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Andy Stanley embraced homosexuality as more than just an acceptable orientation for Christians in his Oct 1, 2023 sermon at North Point Church. Stanley is a well-known name in evangelicalism and his father, Charles Stanley, was a key leader during the Southern Baptist Convention's Conservative Resurgence. This new position marks a shift.
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As someone who suffers from same-sex attraction, I especially hate these wish-washy statements from people trying to soften what the Bible says about homosexuality. It does me no favors to try and pretend it’s not the evil desire that it is.
🙏
When did you get the desire to commit sodomy with a fellow human being?
God Bless you.
Prayers for you to find TRUE Biblical accountability. There you WILL find TRUE Christian love that points you to the Lord, and His Holy Word!❤
Instead of focusing on who you were when you were dead in your trespasses AND sins, set your mind on things above and see yourself clothed with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. You are a new creation. Know that you have been baptized into death with Him, that you were co-buried with Him, and you have been raised with Him. Therefore, when any such desires of the old man/nature begin to rise up within you, count yourself dead to the sin nature (for that's how God sees you in Christ Jesus the son!) and yield yourself to the Holy Spirit to wage the battle on your behalf. (Ro. 6:5-14).
"Be strong in the Lord and the power of his might." Eph. 6:10.
My family left North Point 14 years ago because they saw Andy and leadership going in this direction. Particularly in the home groups.
We recently left a church modeled after North Point because our pastor wouldn’t stand for anything important except for the actual gospel. Wasn’t good enough for us.
We left a sister church, about 3 years ago, that started having it's female youth pastor preach one Sunday morning a quarter. Hubby was like, "Nope" ain't gonna happen. And then I REALLY read Paul's message in 1 Timothy 2, about woman's roles in the Church. And BOOM. My eyes were open to a LOT of unbiblical stuff happening in this church, and others we had been members of. That is when GOD showed me a reformed interpretation of the scriptures that revived my faith in Him!🙌
Most act like this is something new. He has been teaching heresy and openly rejecting the Bible for well over a decade.
we left first baptist atlanta when his father got divorced and never stepped down. never heard another sermon on family, marriage, or divorce from him specifically after that. 🤷🏼♀️
14 years ago? Wow. Now THAT is spiritual discernment. I was going there and never saw it. Well done.
Why is Andy Stanley allowed to speak as a Christian pastor/leader ANYWHERE? He has rejected the Old Testament. He has left the faith.
You can be LGBT and Christian 👨❤️👨
@@dansaber4427not according to the Bible. If one battled same sex attraction and was celibate or married to someone of the opposite sex, that person could be a Christian. I have had homosexual thoughts at times. I chalked them up to de 1:16:09 monic influence. Nearly everyone battles lust so the LGBT community can cry me a river. They can repent, live celibate, or be married and not particularly enjoy the sex. Otherwise they are not Christian. I understand some people battle same sex desires all their lives and they never go away. I battle lust for the opposite sex as a celibate man. I repeat, LGBT folks can cry me a river.
@@timothybuckley7317 God created everyone with a unique orientation. As unique as your God-Given fingerprints. No Two are the same. One of the letters is for you. You are included. No exceptions. Zero excuses.
@@dansaber4427You can be LGBTQIA+ and bust hell wide open. The Bible says homosexuals are unregenerate.
@@dansaber4427 No. You cannot. Repent and believe the Gospel.
Andy Stanley’s church is the last place I’d want to go to if my child was dealing with same sex attraction.
The way that many parents deal with it is Timo frame it as their religion has indoctrinated them to do. Often leading the child to commit suicide.
"A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."
- Charles Spurgeon
Andy Stanley reminds me of this quote.
4:28 "Homosexual persons are called to chastity."
I'm just starting out, so maybe this point will be made. But before I forget:
Here is the error. They are using these desires as a category, as the person's identity. "Homosexual persons" is not a category of people with an immutable trait, as though this is like skin tone or eye color. People have sinful desires. They are not their sinful desires. It seems like a minor distinction. It is not. We don't do that with other sins. No one uses, "I am an adulterer", or, "I am a fornicator", or "thief", or "violent/abuser", etc., as their identity, as something they just ARE and therefore cannot help/change. The only other place I see it used is with addictions: "I am an alcoholic / drug addict." It's wrong there, too. We have sinful desires. We are not those sinful desires. That's doubly true when we are in Christ! 1 Corinthians 6, "such *were* some of you." (Emphasis mine.) Those sins listed are not our identity. Again, it's only in this area that people use the term that way.
Am I saying that everyone with these desires will have them disappear? For some, yes. For some, maybe not. But that's true with other sins, too. We all struggle with different sins and in different degrees. Some struggles are more difficult and painful than others. I don't know all the reasons why. We will know when we see Him one day and our struggle with the flesh finally ends. But we can and should see progress as we grow in discipleship and sanctification in Christ.
I find this very hopeless for the person struggling in this way. Imagine telling someone, "This is not just something you think, feel, or do. It's what you ARE." That is not the freedom promised to us in Christ. You are not your sins. Your identity is a blood bought child of God, redeemed by Jesus Christ. THAT is who you are! Have (genuine biblical) hope, people. He has set you free.
@Yesica1993
Beautifully put.
Yes. Any facts of the creation which might describe us temporally are not the Truth who is the Creator who defines us eternally. Our only true identity is In Christ or Not In Christ. If we're not willing to take up our cross daily we're not worthy to be His disciples, that applies to all persons equally. Luke 9:23 Offering our bodies as a living sacrifice.
Exactly. The first mistake and dangerous error is calling people 'gay Christians', or even "gay people'. They are just people who experience this type of attraction.
Did you originate in the USA illegally or through someone who once did?
The error is A.S. isnt saved, biblcially qualified to pastor, and rejects the Bible.
Andy is a businessman. He saw the great career dad had and took the easy path. Name recognition and figured it was an easy path to wealth. This is why when your pastor retires you don’t automatically hand the reins to the son. The only issue he had was he doesn’t actually believe.
His father is the one that put him into minsitry when he wasnt saved or biblically qualified.
Why should he believe your silliness?
Thanks for keeping me updated on current issues... blessings to you
One of the things missing from this discussion-
Kids having these kind of thoughts is not normal, and often the result of molestation and abuse. So this being such an issue in his church just tells me it is a dangerous place for kids.
Were animals abused? Because homosexuality has been found in animals.
Andy Stanley was already off the cliff, but it appears he's more brazen now since his father passed. That's all I'll say about him since I have nothing nice to say.
People seemingly struggle with the term "concupiscence" for some strange reason, even though a thorough study of Romans, which should never end, makes it clear about what it is. It amazes me how much Western Christians in the 21st century are seemingly afraid of discussing what sin is in totality, with clarity, in the 21st century.
I happen to have a copy of Webster's original 1828 dictionary, and the definition of "concupiscence" reads like this: "CONCUPISCENCE, n. [L., to covet or lust after, to desire or covet.] Lust; unlawful or irregular desire of sexual pleasure. In a more general sense, the coveting of carnal things, or an irregular appetite for worldly good; inclination for unlawful enjoyments.
We know even secret concupiscence to be sin.
Sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. Romans 7."
Webster clearly understood what this is in 1828, yet many today who call themselves Christians seem not to.
Good stuff brother.
His father used to preach that any pastor who got divorced ought step down...until he got a divorce and changed his preaching. I haven't much nice to say about his father either.
@JRRodriguez-nu7po Is that all you have on the guy, his divorce, and him not stepping down?! If so, Andy is so far off the rails that his dad may as well have been the messiah of mankind. Lol By the way, Andy has been married to his wife for 31 years and even have an adopted child, along with the three they already have. Is he better than his dad now because he never got divorced? What's the math here? I'm pretty sure the dad wasn't ok with divorce at all despite his own. I can't say the same about Andy.
The fact is that the dad was better than 95% of pastors in America over the last few decades. Man has been around since I was a kid and never sold out like these prosperity gospel pushers and others selling out in all manner of ways. It's easy to point out something you don't like in that amount of time with a man who had longevity in ministry. I always tell people they wouldn't have liked patriarchs like David, Solomon, or even Abraham because they made mistakes. Heck, Paul was out there sending Christians to the lions at one point. Jesus himself descends from a long heritage of craziness despite his perfection as the son of God and being the propiatiation for our sins.
I don't think the son will last anywhere near as long as his dad unless he turns down the right corner at some point. I, and I hope I'm wrong, don't see that happening anytime soon with Andy.
He was this brazen when his father was alive. He's been baptizing unrepentant and openly gays for over a decade. His father endorsed his sons ministry and said he was proud.
@TheJpep2424 Did his father do any of those things his son does in his church? No. Moreover, the father is not going to come out and blast his son on the pulpit, nor release negative statements to the public about him. If I were in his position, would I? I don't know, but I'm far more the type to do so to my own family when they're doing wrong because I have a very low tolerance for mine. Not everyone is like that, and frankly, Charles might've just decided to avoid the controversy in his old age. Frankly, I have a feeling you'd wouldn't put your own son on front street if you were in this position; and many people wouldn't from my observation of the church in America.
Regardless, his father and mother are gone now and he's left doing this foolishness that we who are alive have to watch.
The repentant come to Jesus. That's such an important point. Not everyone is repentant; you will know them by their fruits. Not to say that they will not, or cannot become repentant, but you have to deal with people as they are; with invitations yes, but with boundaries as well.
Andy Stanley seems to be all about THIS life, not the next, when he's apologetic on behalf of gay married couples.
That is a good point. Where will we spend eternity? ✝️
If it's true that as early as 2014 they tried to create special material and conferences to respond to gay teens and experienced opposition to those conferences back THEN, then the case can't be made that they "suddenly" find themselves attacked NOW. That's one of the many inconsistencies. I'd want to ask Stanley what that "journey" looks like that those families of gay kids walk out. Does it end in them getting married to a same sex partner? With the Stanleys attending, non-approvingly? Then there's no disagreement ever, it would seem. Just affirming unconditionally all the way, never opposing. Because that would make the environment "unsafe". The whole thing is so dishonest and circular.
Great, great episode. Andy has been on our radar for a LONG time, but you're right - this capitulation isn't the end - it'll get worse. His 'free grace' slip is showing under his pastor skirt, if you follow my meaning. In essence he's saying that he's okay with *some* homosexuals going to hell as long as the Northpoint circles aren't excluding anyone at all. And that whole "they didn't see any other option than to marry another man" - blech...what a load of skubalon.
He's been an opnely gay church and has been baptizing open homosexuals for over a decade.
Exactly. Substituting any other sin for LGBT reveals the absurdity of the affirming/identity argument. We do NOT identify with any of our sinful desires. That would be validation. We identify with Christ and our new nature found in Him!
so well said!!! yes!
Truly born again believers can understand this but unfortunately those who are not still identify with their sin while affirming it, desiring a lifestyle of secular views or truths.
Amen!
@@cat-bg3rvThe description of homosexuality as a lifestyle is a blatant oversimplification of human sexuality in general and homosexuality in particular. Such indoctrination of the collective societal psyche is paramount to both the formation and maintenence of the self validating delusion of heterosexuality possessing moral validity. The reason that we never hear the term " heterosexual lifestyle " is because there is no need to categorize heterosexuality with such descriptively inherent connotative oversimplification in order to subconsciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective ( and, therefore, contextually unfair and invalid) comparison. While such complex reality is certain to come with a threat to the subjectively comparative sense of moral superiority of many, such is the cost of growth demanded by truth.
@49:50 -- this is the problem -- Andy says that these homosexuals want to marry because they "love" one another. NO. The Bible never calls disordered sex "love." Rather, it is "lust," which is sin. Once you buy into the idea that lust is love, there's no coming back. Andy will be full-on affirming in all aspects in the near future.
I fully believe he's a sodomite and will eventually admit it.
In today's society, unfortunately, sex=love.
People should have left andy Stanley church long ago. I have been telling people to mark and avoid this guy for a long time. This is just the natural progression for things that have been evident for years
Andy sadly reminds me of the serpent in the garden of eden when he asked Eve, “did God really say?…” and he led her to doubt the truth of God’s Word…people in this day and culture use the concept of God’s love in such a twisted wicked way. The Word of God absolutely teaches the love of God but it never separates His love from His truth. The 2 go together. Sad times… glad Charles didn’t know about this conference his son was so involved in. 😢
Same lie from the garden just repackaged.
You really believe "Charles didn't know" about his son's error drift??
Given how often children who commit homosexual acts have been molested by another child or an adult, what I hear Stanley saying is that there’s rampant child sexual abuse at Northpoint, and he’s doing nothing about it.
These people need serious intervention and outside prayer.
Andy Stanley needs to read and believe the bible after he repents for being a false teacher.
Andy Stanley has strayed from Christianity. He’s now a bonafide liberal of the type discussed by J. Graham Machen in his book, Christianity and Liberalism. This is a different religion and we need to recognize that. Yes, they profess to be Christian and they use similar terms. They will claim to believe in God, Jesus, salvation, etc., it they define those terms differently. In reality they do not worship the true God.
He rejected the Bible in colege. He was never a christian. His entire agenda has been to redefine christianity apart from the Bible based on his political and theoligical liberalism. He's an apostate.
Sounds like an intellectual acceptance of God, Jesus, Christianity, and Salvation. Not a Spiritual acceptance. With which I agree with you.
Regarding McDonald's book, attending the wedding of a couple who cohabitated beforehand is not endorsing that sin, anymore than attending the wedding of anyone is endorsing their previous sin. Attending the wedding of a same-sex couple is endorsing the sin they are about to engage in. That is very different.
If someone who professes Christ is in any form of continued unrepentant sin ie gay "marriage" they need church discipline not a circle drawing them in
I know this is one episode my hubby won't watch/listen to. He can no longer stand to watch/listen to Andy Stanley. Lol
You could do far worse with a husband his heart is certainly in the right place
I walked in one day and my wife had Fox News on in the background and they were interviewing dandy andy and I went into straight up preacher mode and just couldn't help myself to rant against this total clown. Honestly even the sight of him just enrages me. I just take extreme comfort in the fact that vengeance belongs to God and he WILL repay.
What I love about the Bible is how straightforward it is. Not confusing at all He Andy's sermons are hard to follow. Therefore confusing.
Jon I’m just now watching this episode and noticed the volume is somewhat low and hard to hear. You need to take clips like this and have AI add subtitles. Divinci Resolve editing software will do this. I realize this is not a common thing on your channel but using subtitles is an option
Here's a question. Homosexuals have been in the mainstream of our society for about 40-50 years. If Stanley's message here was purely biblical, and theologically correct, wouldn't all Evangelical and leading Christian pastors and speakers be preaching this message, including his father, and the apostle Paul? Or is he the only leading Christian speaker today who is purely biblical, and theologically correct in this area?
I'm afraid that Andy Stanley specifically rejected the Christianity of his father long long ago. So he went off and made up his own religion.
This goes deeper and it is the apostasy of the church; the separation is and will take place, the wheat from the tares. Andy is teaching the goats.
His father endorses his ministry.
@@TheJpep2424 , his father is dead. Please provide the source of your assertion.
Stanley seems obsessed with taking away all shame associated with certain "protected" sins, which really just makes the sin more acceptable.
How can you truly repent of a sin that you don't acknowledge as a sin. Praying to God to have your desires taken away or changed while not acknowledging them as sin and even having a heart that believes it's God's fault you have these desires, is not true repentance. Pastors teaching otherwise are not loving they are hateful
Hear! Hear!
These excerpts well demonstrate how Andy Stanley is an utterly humanistic preacher. His preaching is man-centered, and the fear of the Lord and the desire to please God, are pushed far off to the side.
So much for victory OVER sin though Christ. Andy is double taking that’s why so many are confused.
A church such as Laodicea.
The key issue for Andy is his belief that homosexuality is genetically determined. It is not. Studies of identical twins with one being homosexual and the other not being homosexual proves beyond a doubt that homosexuality is not genetically determined. Otherwise, if one were homosexual, the other would also be homosexual in 100% of the cases. He also seems to believe that those with same-sex attraction find it impossible to be attracted to the opposite sex. In many cases, this is definitely not the case and it might not true in any of the cases. Among many documented cases of homosexuality where we know the person's background, they did have romantic feelings or even relationships with those of the opposite sex.
Genetically identical twins can still have biological differences. In nearly seventy percent of cases, if one twin is gay,they both will be. The reason that it is important for homosexuality to be seen as being chosen is because, before something can be seen as being wrong it first must be seen as being chosen, and, therefore, subconsciously worthy of contempt and hatred through subjective ( and, therefore, contextually unfair and invalid) comparison. The reason that we never hear the term " heterosexual lifestyle " is because there is no need to categorize heterosexuality with such descriptively inherent connotative oversimplification in order to subconsciously justify contempt and hatred through the stone of subjective comparison.
@@lynnbaker2336 I disagree on several counts. First, identical twins are genetically identical, 100%.
Second, all studies of ID twins find that the percentage of cases where one twin is homosexual & so is the other is less than 100%. That proves beyond doubt that homosexuality is not genetically determined. That figure is also much lower than 70% in all of the studies that I have seen. The bigger the study of twins, such as in Sweden & Australia, have the figure well below 50%. It might be that some genetically inherited traits make a person more disposed to be open to homosexuality in a way similar, for example, to being tall opens one up to being interested in basketball. See the link below to the Swedish study.
Third, I am not saying that in all cases the person actively and consciously chooses homosexuality over heterosexuality even though these cases do exist. My last gf was friends with a woman who has become a very prominent advocate for homosexuality in the academic world. This woman and my friend were watching a movie together as a well-built man took off his shirt. They both commented on being turned on by his physique. My friend was shocked. She asked the other woman who was a declared lesbian about how she could be attracted to a man. The woman answered that she is turned on by men but chooses to be a lesbian due to her refusal to submit to a man in a heterosexual relationship. In other cases, I agree that this degree of choice is not the issue. Forty percent of homosexual men were molested as children or adolescents. That introduced them into sex by way of homosexuality. There are other environmental factors that influence sexuality. The article below notes that much of the influence on sexuality is environmental.
And by the way, people can change their sexuality going from being heterosexual to homosexual or vice-versa. I have known people in the former group. John Maynard Keynes was someone who met a girl whom he fell in love with and that ended a lifelong practice of homosexuality right then and there.
The heterosexual lifestyle is what we have seen throughout the ages with traditional families.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18536986/
This is a real eye-opener about Stanley. I've seen his name on this or that vids, and I'm very glad once again that I subscribed to Conversations that Matter. Also, the sorta-deep dive into Catholic theology about "this sin and that one are not really sins because of child baptism" was interesting, because of how it was tied into the way Stanley has so-softened about roping in sinners with his "I've got a really big circle! And so did Jesus!" policy. So glad that I heard the very sensible and understandable explanation that no, Christ "roped in" repentant sinners, not sinners genuinely bursting with pride about their sins.
I was raised Southern Baptist. I fully agree that sin comes from the will. Because, in the case of desires, the will is required to resist those. So there's positive & negative aspects of the will. I'm at the point in the video where the Catholics just went through that, so I'm prepared to have my mind changed.
Yea desires to sin are sin. Temptation, though, is not. Jesus was tempted
The sinful desire will eventually grow into full bloom. Our hearts are deceitful. Jeremiah 17:9-10 Think upon what is righteous, true, holy, and pure. Philippines 4:8 📖
But it is NOT our job to say physical lives. It is our job to love one another in the way that Jesus reconciled people to Himself. And Jesus never condoned sin in order to bring a sinner closer to Him.
i just finished watching this video, which was excellent! nicely done, jon.
i will add that NorthPointe church in Fresno that affiliates with the SBC is not to be mistaken for Andy's megachurch in Alpharetta, GA (north of Atlanta.) His church is a non-denominational evangelical church (if you can still call it that) and always has been. his father's church was and still is wholeheartedly affiliated with the SBC. he served two terms as president in the 80's or early 90's. i grew up at his church and was in andy's youth group when he taught and played guitar as a young pastor. we left first baptist atlanta when dr stanley got divorced and didnt step down like he said he would. so sad to see both of their lives play out, especially andy's bcuz it's just sickening. we must stay true and keep the faith. stick to sound doctrine and never back down. persevere to the end. may the LORD return sooooooooon!!!!!!!!
...and one more thing, i saw an article that said andy's church is now the 2nd largest megachurch now in the us...dont know if thats true but he is leading MANY astray as he is clearly a false teacher. he is definitely not "saving many lives," as he put it. he is actually doing quite the opposite if people are not repenting of their sin and being preached a different gospel. in fact, that is leading many straight to hell imo.
I think you would find the debate between James White and Gregory Coles very interesting. The language that he uses “capacity to experience same sex attraction” is something I’ve never heard before. I think Christians should be prepared to hear this type of language because it’s very different than the typical arguments we think of when having conversations about “gay” identity.
Jon, audio on Stanley's clips is way too low.
Jon, I appreciate you showing clips from Catholics on their views regarding concupiscence and same-sex attraction. The rub, I believe, is that you insinuate because they don't teach that the involuntary experience of same-sex attraction is a sin, then they therefore minimize addressing the SSA. Please, watch my video i did on John Paul II's book "Love and Responsibility" and how it applies to homosexuality. Yes, your clips showed that homosexually attracted persons are called to chastity (notice they didn't say celibacy, like rather ignorant Side Bs will try to adopt to their ethic). When you do a deeper look at Catholic teaching on chastity, you learn that chastity means "the proper ordering of sexual desire." So, they may not call SSA a sin in itself (so long as one is not engaging in willful lust), but their understanding of spiritual growth goes beyond sin. One thing I've come to appreciate about Catholic teaching is the call to magnanimity, to pursue wholeness and spiritual greatness. We Protestants tend to stop our understanding of sanctification at stopping hanitually sinning. But the call of becoming a saint requires the transformation of desire.
BTW, one of the Catholics shown used the term homosexuals. If pressed, I'm confident he would nuance that, because the Theology of the Body is clear that no one is truly homosexual.
You readily use "disordered desires" to categorize SSA, but that's the same term that Catholics use. You're really barking up the wrong tree when you place the blame on orthodox Catholic teaching for the pro-gay infiltration in the Protestant world.
Concupiscence is more than just desire, in general. We're not Bhuddists. Salvation is NOT 'the death of desire.' I won't attempt to add to Tim Staples actual definition here.
Also, we can speak of certain desires being inherently disordered, or of certain acts constituting grave matter, but to say that one sins without willing to is probably one of the wilder theological statements I've heard in some time. That means that even heterosexual would have to live in fear that they were constantly sinning without being able to control it, or possibly without even realizing it. If you have a soteriology that can permit for this, it would almost makes identifying specific sins seem pointless. If LGBTQ individuals are sinning without willing to then why shame them publicly, since they are sinning against their own will, and (probably) so are we? There is no point in shaming someone who can't control their actions.
I really appreciate your honesty. I believe God honors that.
North Point Community Church is a non-denominational, evangelical megachurch located in Alpharetta, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. North Point currently averages more than 38,589 people in attendance across eight locations in the north metro Atlanta area.
It is also an apostate church no longer supplting its followers with sound doctrine. It has "fallen away" from the God's church.
It's extraordinary that nearly 40,000 people are okay with that! Even if not all of the locations teach these things, you would think people would be bombarding the leadership with questions and demanding this issue be addressed. That's what gets me! @@robertkauffman8137
We live in Laodicea ascendant. If you want success in this world, be lukewarm. Exceptions, like McArthur exist, but for how much longer?
Apostate Andy, making more sons of hell...
I have met people who:
- felt those kinds of attraction
- were heterosexual but found it hard to control desire
- were, in their own words, "miserable gluttons"
- were prone to alcoholism
- were prone to violence
- had an issue with substance abuse (other than alcohol)
None complained about church issues, none complained about being misunderstood. Incredibly, every single one of them said that those were their crossed to bear.
And that includes a Cuban guy I met in Germany years ago. He had fled from Cuba, from Castro when he was al young man. Fled to Miami. Later had a wife and jobs, etc. His past (poverty and violence in Cuba) led him to alcoholism. This broke his marriage. Left the US and went to Spain and finally Germany. He worked in roads and public buildings maintenance, though physical job. Had an acceptable salary.
He could not rebuild his life properly, though. Even with counselling. He still was an alcoholic.
The solution, even he said this many times, is NOT to be accepting of his disease/flaw/fault/sin, the solution is always to help him and others fight the problem.
People struggle with many things. Even fear. We must be open to people who are struggling, the church must also be open; what we cannot and should not do is accept people who don't want to solve problems , who affirm they don't want to live according to Scripture.
Should I have to accept someone - who spits on the floor, steals from me, disrespects me and my family - into my home? No.
Dr Michael Brown from Line of Fire has been reaching out to Andy Stanley since 2015. He just recently spoke about this on his radio show.
Michael brown needs to repent from endosring the word of faith propserity heresy and wicked false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Sid Roth, Benny Hinn.
Michael Brown is a false teacher
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet or if Jon had heard it at the time he made this video but at the same time all the hoopla and hullabaloo was being reported all over about Stanley the Pope came out with a letter saying bishops could bless SSM/couples as long as they don't equate it to heterosexual marriage. The similarity between him and Stanley is striking.
I did not know that Northpoint was associated with the SBC. This is ever bit as big as Rick Warren at Saddleback. Arguably bigger.
Andy's father used to preach that any pastor that divorced should step down as being unqualified on a number of Biblical passages...before he got divorced and changed his interpretation. His son is worse. These are wolves as per their changing interpretation to fit their needs.
Actually his church didn;t want him to step down.
I disagree with you. There's no way Charles Stanley was a wolf. His son maybe but not him
@@dingotomtom No his son is not "maybe" a wolf. His son is an absolutely rabid wolf that is single handedly building a new wing in hell with his damnable heresies.
@@lj4130 He had emphatically said he would step down if divorced (SBA Pastors usually can’t become pastors if divorced) but went back on that conviction, is the point. He had been critical of others Southern Baptist pastors who stayed in the pulpit, despite being divorced. If it was truly a conviction, then he should’ve followed through on that, despite what the “congregation” wanted. He had a very strong personality (despite the sweet demeanor in his preaching) and was strong enough to resist a congregation’s desire. That said, I do believe he stayed consistent with the Bible in his preaching in general, in the decades of followed.
Did you originate in the USA illegally or through someone who once did?
I am so grateful i dont have to decide others fate (there is a Judge for that already) as i have my own sins to focus on in getting right with Jesus. We are all on this walk together. If we are His, we can rest assured, for ourselves and all, we will all grow in Christ. Amen
And we are to judge what people teach commanded in scripture. And we're to warn people of false teachers that deceive people to hell. Worrying about our sin doesnt exclude us from standing against teachers that endorse sexual sins God condemns.
Andy Stanley is right now a gay-affirming pastor. He calls churchgoers who have abandoned themselves to live in active perversion "Christians" rather than calling them professing Christians or former Christians.
Secondly, he allows people whom he knows to be practicing homosexuality to be members in good standing of his church. He actually indicated this was his stance going all the way back to 2012 with his famous sermon illustration with the homosexuality and adultery situation. A church like Andy Stanley's church or FBC Orlando that allows known practicing homosexuals to be members in good standing is a gay affirming church already, and there is no point in waiting for the inevitable announcement of doctrinal affirmation of the blessedness of gay marriage for us to reach this conclusion.
Andy Stanley is a wolf, not a shepherd of Christ, and this has been clear since his 2012 sermon. Since then he has constantly been on attack against the Bible. I am very disturbed at the failure to reach a consensus on Andy Stanley's wolf status, and in this respect I have to take the task his recently deceased father, the Christian Post, and the broader evangelical intelligentsia.
Maybe i missed it, but did Andy reference the Bible once in his speech? Maybe he's working on unhitching himself from the Bible as a whole and not just the old Testament.
Regarding concupiscence, I think the dichotomy of "The desire is a sin." and "It is only a sin once I act on it." is not an accurate representation of all the views--or, at least, the phrases aren't clear. The latter view is, of course, heresy as it allows for 1. indulging the desire in the heart or, even, 2. not indulging the desire, but doing nothing to fight it. However, on the other hand, if a man has sexual desire for another man (or even a married man for another woman) but always resists it, shoves it aside, and wills against the desire, I would say he has not sinned (as in James 1:14-15). However, in contrast to what appears to be the Catholic view, I would also say that it was the law of sin producing the desire, and thus the desire itself is sin, but not his sin. If I'm misunderstanding a view, please correct me. I haven't heard much of the Calvinist vs Catholic debate on this topic, only the orthodox Christian vs people like Andy Stanley which is quite different, in my mind. I think even the (faithful) Catholics would condemn openly what Andy Stanley is doing.
Catholic listener here. The place where I'd want to improve on your summary is in regards to what it means for Baptism to remove or take care of Original Sin.
I think the relevant sections of the catechism are paragraphs 404, 405, 407, and 1264.
Original Sin is seen as having different effects in the human person. On a spiritual level, the person is deprived interiorly of grace, is alienated from God, and is a "child of wrath", and completely unable to exit that state by our own power.
There is also the consequences wrought upon our human nature. Our human nature is bent and twisted, orienting us toward evil and irrationality.
Baptism takes care of the former (the spiritual) aspect of Original Sin. However, what cannot be denied is that the latter (the deformation of our nature) is not healed... at least not all at once. For that, the Lord seen fit to change us through the sometimes arduous process of sanctification.
So I don't see any weird catagories which need to be invented, or anything like that.
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Addition as we get to the 1 hour mark: Does the Catholic understanding of things entail that same-sex attraction is acceptable? As with any other question one asks a Catholic, the correct answer is: "It depends on what you mean."
Let's look at two statements:
"It is unacceptable to have schizophrenia"
"It is unacceptable to use fowl language in front of children."
In both cases we can use the word unacceptable, but the contours of what is meant is different. In the first instance what is meant is we have a disordered condition which is contrary to God's plan for human flourishing. Therefore it must be resisted and mitigated as much as possible, but it would make no sense to say to a schizophrenic person, "Stop that immediately." In the second instance we are talking about a human behavior which is contrary to the law of God. It would make sense to tell someone to cut it out.
If you can track my analogy: SSA - in itself - is treated more like schizophrenia. But the fact that it is not treated as a sin to have that condition does not mean it must inevitably be accepted. And I think the proof is in the pudding. The Catholic faith has been banging on for quite a while now. If our understanding of concupiscence inevitably leads us to accept SSA as OK... we'd have done it by now.
Pardon, but catechism is not the Bible and is an unauthorized addition to the Word of God.
Exactly. But trying to convince Catholics of this is just about impossible. I have found it easier to have (at least somewhat) productive dialogue with atheists about God/the Bible than it is to talk with hard core Catholics about these issues.@@robertkauffman8137
@@robertkauffman8137 , You are correct that the Catechism is not the word of God. However, the host's question was whether his summary of Catholic doctrine was adequate, or if it could use some refinement. Therefore, it was both appropriate and relevant for me to point an authorized summarization of Catholic doctrine - namely the Catechism.
This is not dissimilar from me citing lines of the Westminster Confession of faith to describe what Presbyterians believe. Or to the Book of Concord to help describe what Lutherans believe. These are authoritative sources which describe how those folks understand things. Does that help clear up my intent?
While not agreed, your respectful, on point response is laudable.
We are saved by grace through faith, God is the giver of faith. Baptism is the person's conscious decision to obey Christ, not the means of grace, but the result. We are drawn to God, saved by Jesus resurrection, and then, obey with baptism.
I am not Roman Catholic but Evangelical Catholic (Lutheran). Baptism washes away the guilt of original sin (and our other sins) because it unites us to Christ, regenerates us, and engenders faith within our hearts. But concupiscence (our sin desire/bent towards sin) remains.
From my understanding the Calvinist tradition originally believed in a version of this as well, but that it was only effective for the elect and was not necessarily tied to the moment of administration (I believe the Westminster Confession of Faith talks about this). Calvin calls Baptism the “Laver of Regeneration” in his Ezekiel commentary, and Knox says in Chapter 21 of the Scots Confession that “in baptism we are ingrafted into Christ to be made partakers of his justice, by the which all our sins are covered and remitted.”
Two things: 1.There are "Daddy" called preachers and there are 2. those truly called of God to the Pastorate. Andy is a product of "Coat Tail Christianity" , where one believes he will be accepted of God and by God for his lineage. Then, once freed from the guilt of Biblical Standards , he or she heads down that slippery slope away from God.
His church is driven by market share. All such churches will inevitably take his position.
I don't know what's supposed to be so clever about the "we draw circles, not lines" slogan. A circle is a line. It's just round, not straight, and its ending point meets the starting point so it creates a closed loop that you'll be either on the inside or outside of. Big whoop. How is that superior? He lost me with that. Stanley is also in essence - like so many gay affirming pastors - more forgiving and accepting that the Apostle Paul, who said to not eat with someone who persists in sexual sin. Paul stops eating with them, Andy makes a point of including them. Ok then. And he says they know it's not biblical, but do it anyway - because. The whole thing is just so half-baked and whiny. He'd do well to engage with Rosaria Butterfield and Beckett Cook, former homosexuals who left that identity behind when finding Christ. Andy keeps talking like it can't be done. Have THOSE people write curriculum, not two gay "married" gay guys.
I just don't understand why Evangelicals keep on sharing with the RCC Biblical theology when they did not change their own POVs. Aren't there enough Protestant theologians to consult, share, or get input from?
Windows vs Mac. I’ve done both and Linux. Did Windows in the 90s to 2000. Linux to 2006. Then Mac ever sense. Mac has been a real game changer and I won’t go back to Windows. I want my computer to just work. Mac does that. Updates are not often and they work. In 17 years I have had one problem upgrade. Mac had the ability built in to start over with a clean hard drive and connect online and reinstall the OS. Wow. They work and are a pleasure to work with.
David Morell has a good recording of thus, if anyone needs, at Protestia
41:30 minutes, so you basically saying that some churches and denominations are feeding the crocodile thinking that it will eat them last?
One would think that after all that has happened, that they would have learned better.
I'm not sure that the Catholic view is outright Pelagian after baptism. I believe their view is that original sin is totally justified at baptism. Because they conflate justification with sanctification, justification is lost to varying degrees when willful sins are committed after baptism. It does not necessarily follow that original sin is obliterated at baptism. But I would need to consult their Catechism to be sure.
Paul lived in a culture that affirmed homosexuality. Yet Paul unequivocally condemned it.
So sad Andy is the son of one of our greatest preacher, Charles Stanley! The devil planted his evil seed and took Andy's soul.😢
Jon, Andy kind if says that. There is a Utube video of Andy saying homosexual people are better Christians that those who ate against homosexuality
He did a video responding to that at the time that it came out
Yes, about it being so hard to come to church. Easier for straight people, according to him.
@@suzannelesser5468 Andy is entirely humanistic in his focus he is concerned about people being a part of the Church community but not so much about being right with God that's probably because he's never been right with God himself
FBC Orlando it's probably worse on this issue than any PCA church I'm familiar with. Probably worse even than that one in St Louis.
It is one of the many Original Sins. It is not separate and distinct from Original Sin. What Andy is doing is a Sin being a Pastor. What he is doing as a strategy may be appropriate if he was a street Preacher however, it abrogates his responsibilities as a Preacher of a Church Congregation. His job is to preach the Gospel and not to publicly change the messaging.
He has changed his apologetic to one of culturally trying to decanter Evangelicalism from secular cultural conservatism. Think Thabiti Anabweli's decentering whiteness. He is trying uncesscesssfully ti decanter heterosexuakity from sacred spaces. He won't succeed because the invisible church will prevail against tge gates of hell.
When he mentioned “most people are same sex attracted,” Tim was likely speaking about the Kinsey scale where no one, or very few, fall on one extreme or the other but somewhere in between.
Yes Alfred Kinsey was fraudulent sex researcher and there were many manifestations of that including his absurd feather test
You may be correct...but how is one to assume what he was "likely speaking" of?
Sorry, Andy is still wrong. He is upset he is getting called out. And there are some folks leaving.
He seems so humble & grace oriented, but he is in fact arrogant and anyone who disagrees is totally wrong & don't know what they are talking about. Only he & North Point are right & following Jesus
He doesn't even believe in Sola Scriptura. That's all you need to know about him. He admitted that in a debate with Jeff Durbin years ago.
He rejects the Bible. He is anything but humble. To speak on behalf of God and support things God hates is the definition if pride and arrogance.
Verily, verily, I say to you, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.. except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto you, You must be born again. 8The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. ~John 3
The root of this thinking is Replacement Theology and the consequence is diluting Fear of the Lord and mocking God.
North Point Community Church has never been in SBC.
Andy Stanley isn't a pastor in any sense of the word..nor is Joel Osteen
Jesus told us to repent and turn FROM our sins. THAT is the difference between Jesus and all of these false "inclusive, affirming" preachers.
Andy gives me the creeps. I think he is gay himself.
Mohler calling Andy Stanley by name should confirm North Point is no longer SBC - you know Dr. Mohler will not rebuke a Convention brother publicly.
He rebuked Rick Warren publicly. and I'm no fan of A.M.
@TheJpep2424 He was speaking for the board, not for himself, and to the congregation's policy, not the person of Warren as leader. It is noteworthy, but doesn't that situation stand out as different?
Also of note, did he refrain until the vote for removal?
UMC is in a split situation over these issues
Or @brich2542 I think he is asking us to actually study the Bible and find out what all of these "clobber texts" actually mean. In order to do that, you have to start with, "What DID this mean, to the author and original intended audience. That is known as exegesis. The Bible was written for us, but not TO US. For example, when we say, "the Bible says 'homosexuals' will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9, we are forgetting that Paul’s letters to the Corinthians was NOT originally written in English. It was written in GREEK.
There are THREE GREEK words there. You have to know something about what they meant. If you question whether or not we have to actually study to find out what these three words meant, look at 5 different Bible translations and you will find five different interpretations. Some translations use the word "pervert" (which is really nice, don't you think?), another uses the word, "homosexual"; another uses "effeminate" and “abuser of themselves with mankind”, another uses “Sodomite”; etc. etc. etc. Why don’t they all say the same thing? What are these words, and what did they mean? Let’s keep looking.
To truly RESPECT the Word of God we need to go deeper in our study. The words in Greek, are malakos (means soft, as in clothing, or soft to the touch, as in a person) the second word is a compound word: arsenokoites: These unusual words that Paul uses are unique to him. He used them only twice. Here in his letter to the Corinthians and again in Timothy.
Let's break it down: arseno (Male, hard, strong to lift) koites (bed, sexual intercourse). Go to the Blue Letter Bible.com and look a 1 Cor. 6:9-10. Look at the original words, individually. So what we have here is an adult, strong, MAN, having sexual intercourse with a soft, boy. Hmmm, that sounds like pedophilia doesn’t it? Let’s see. This is Paul’s letter to the Corinthians. Corinth was a GREEK city. We know from history that it was a common GREEK practice for an adult, married, “straight” man to have a young boy as a sex partner whom he would mentor as a child (prepubescent) until the boy reached puberty. This was pedophilia! Paul addresses all kinds of SINS. If this passage is not about pedophilia, please tell me where he did address it? Would Paul NOT address CHILD ABUSE of this nature being carried out by members of THE CHURCH in CORINTH, a GREEK City?
So just in this one example, you can see that things are NOT always so black and white, and clear as we think. We read into things that are not there. Even the Bible translators were prejudiced in interpreting these passages as we saw above since they do not agree with one another. CHRISTIANS need to be VERY careful judging others about things of which they are ignorant. Didn’t Jesus says, “with what judgment you judge, you will be judged?
For every homosex, there was a first time the thought was put before him: "Why don't you imagine having intimacy with a male." That thought was not sin; it was the temptation. The correct response would be: "Get away from me; I'm not going to think on that." . . . . . If instead, he opened the door to the thought, - that was sin; and he opened the door to demons. and every time after that when he opens the door to that thought, it is sin. and it is abomination. Amen.
Those demons out of your life. stand up.
Jesus did accept all people….but Jesus did ask them to repent and to stop sinning!! Andy does not emphasize repentance….God’s power is available to all of us to overcome sin….and to “take up our cross and follow Him….God does not always take away circumstances that we don’t like but helps us to live with them!!
Isn't identifying an action?
Yes, get a Mac!
"this is not a very winsome title" lol, kk, now tell me about "white washed wall" and "brood of vipers".
I believe Charles Stanley passed away about a year ago fyi
Died this year (2023). Spring.
and he endorses his sons ministry several times before dying.
Andy's seminar was about " how to care for family members who are gay " . Compassion is messy
Matthew 15:19-21
King James Version
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
Ephesians 5:32. Two men is a reflection of Christ and Christ, two women is a reflection of church and church. While the church is called to love the church, and while Christ loves Christ, if there's no union of Christ and church, we're lost - not only that, there cannot be any church assembly called out of the world without Christ. The devil is all about destroying the reflection of Christ and the church, that is, marriage; and also about destroying the male and female image of God. Temptation is not sin, and Jesus was tempted in all ways yet without sin, including this one; James says when desire has conceived it gives birth to sin, so by the power of the Holy Spirit living His life thru our bodies we're called to not let desire conceive sin, and it seems obvious that Peter, Paul, James are all in agreement on this.
Oh goodness, halfway through. Didn't realize Jon was so blind to the Gospel. Will pick this video up again soon.
Huh??
He isnt but you are.
I frankly wouldn't be surprised in the least, if it comes out that Andy has committed multiple homosexual sexual acts. Yeah, I said it.
You're welcome
Would not be surprising.
I totally and absolutely believe he's a full blown sodomite.
30:17 listen to the clip starting there.
Bingo!
Correct.
I like Pinky (Jon). and he's right that Andy is apostate but, pinky is right for the wrong reasons.
The Brain
Jon has taken everything Andy said way out of context.
Your computer needs more ram.
Speak to the people of Israel, saying, "If anyone sins unintentionally in any of the Lord's commandments about things not to be done, and does any one of them..."
- Leviticus 4:2
Well look at that! I'll bet the catholic church has a disingenuous way os skirting around this passage too, like they do many others.
The sound from stanley is so bad
He is one of the false teachers we were warned about!
This is so wrong on so many levels.. saving lives? You're condemning them to an eternity in hell
Additionally, even the 1662 Book of Common Prayer says that sins occur in thought, word, and deed. The Westminster Standards say the same thing. Andy Stanley is an outright pelagian, apparently.
Andy Stanley is not a Christian. He needs to repent and get saved.
correct
Andy is not adhering to Christian doctrines.
he isnt a christian