Credit to the writers too. The transformation of Wesley from pratfalling, bumbling, pompous Wesley to the pinch hitter in the clutch, making the tough calls, ace in the hole Wesley was gradual enough to be believable. You saw Wesley find his purpose, lean into it, and then answer the call of duty even when it meant to raise a dread hand and and the occasional discarded foul rag.
Wesley and Illyria/Winifred will remain my favorite couple of all time. The scene between them in the final episode of the series was so good... Even those on the set were crying.
I just love the premise of that scene. How earlier in the episode Wesley explains that as a Watcher, rule 1 is knowing what's real, because in a world of magic, it's hard to know. He acknowledges the reality that Fred is gone, and won't take a cheap lie as a substitute.... but once he's dying, he just wants some happiness, and takes what he can get. Plus I just love this dialogue: Illyria: This wound is moral. Wesley: ...... aren't we all.
@@KS-xk2so I think Illyria enjoyed that moment as much as he did, maybe more. When she earlier took on the "Burkle persona" when Fred's parents showed up, afterward she expressed her desire to Wesley to "explore it further." Then after Wesley's death when she reached the alley, she says "I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control it." That is what she wanted to explore because as a god she appreciates the beauty and gravity of things, the power of it. Especially in regards to life and death as a (mortal) human.
The beauty of that scene, aside from its Shakespearean tone, is that the viewer is mourning the deaths of two characters simultaneously, Wesley and Fred. We know Wesley is dying, and we know that Illyria is NOT Fred. When Illyria undertakes the guise of Fred, an illusion that Wesley knows is not real, she does so with Wesley's consent. She also does so out of some fondness for Wesley, perhaps as a result of absorbing/consuming Fred's consciousness when Illyria usurps Fred's body. In that moment, we are grieving thrice: 1) Wesley's impending demise; 2) Fred's untimely departure; and 3) the unrealized romance between Fred and Wesley. The great irony is that Illyria who was unintentionally responsible for Fred's death is the one who avenges Wesley's killing. Like I said, the scene was absolutely Shakespearean.
For me, the Realest and Truest aspect to that scene where Wesley absolutely *believes* that he is executing his own father for having ruined his life and now going beyond that to threaten the people he loves and the person he loves most in The World is what he does immediacy after he just has - he immediately walks slowly over to the corner with his back turned, vomits, straightens back up, and after needing only a few short moments to regain his poise and composure to pull himself together, he is more or less just about completely *fine* ...
I love badass Wesley. He's one of my favorite characters. His father threatened Fred. So he didn't hesitate one second. Right on. I'd do the same if someone pointed a gun at the woman I love.
I don't even know why they bothered makiing him a machine. Reduce the impact of the scene, never get used later. Living with this would have been another of Wesley's burdens and he wears them so fine...
Wesley’s arc was the best in the Buffyverse, and with characters like Spike, Willow, Connor and Faith that’s saying a lot. Maybe if Firefly had continued we would’ve seen a more compelling arc but I doubt it. Incidentally go back and watch episodes written by either Tim Minear, Mere Smith or Steven DeKnight and watch Alexis’ performances. All three of those writers excelled at writing Wesley.
Love love LOVE this scene! Wish we could've gotten more of Wes and Fred together. The fact that he didn't hesitate for a second to shoot his father when Fred was in danger, just, wow Is it just me, or is being fired the best thing that can happen to a watcher? Giles got fired from the Watcher's Council in season 3 of Buffy and from then on you see Giles at his most badass. Wes got fired, also season 3 of Buffy, and you see him get more and more badass after that happens, when he shows up on Angel. Like, being fired was the best thing that could have happened to either watcher. They both got harder and tougher and better for it.
Yes, Wes and Fred are beautiful... I also like their performance with Illyria but that intensity was also because of the love he had for Fred, he was so precious... and it was so sad. They have always put the watchers as an archaic order and that uses the hunters and the people under their command as tools. Wes's life from what we discovered in the series was horrible, the mistreatment of his father another member of the MOL was trauma and abuse. The Wes we met in Buffy was a self-conscious one despite all his skills and preparation, with much weight over. The Wes de angel and its evolution is a marvel, it was a difficult journey but he found out who he was.The best thing that happened to them is that they were effectively fired.
Weren't Wesley and Fred an item before she was infected by Illyria? IIRC when that happened and they couldn't save her didn't emotionally tear Wesley apart?
Really wish something *did* happen to Wesley's dad cause it was kind of cruel that Wesley doesn't event get real closure on the abuse he went through as a kid
Certainly, it is frustrating to know that Wesley's father was not actually involved in this. However, for Wesley, he was still his father. The process of overcoming the limits he set with his father, to the point of "killing" him, meant that if something were to happen in their real relationship in the future, Wesley had broken the toxic bond with his father. He would no longer be the son of the abuser, but a completely different being who had evolved on his own and had the capacity to believe in himself and rebel. Although we may not have seen it, this would be a way for Wesley's father to pay for his actions, since Wesley would never allow him to abuse him again.
@@m-sherezade6165 but the episode ended with Wesley trying to call his sperm donor and not even getting a word in cause Daddy dearest was angry for being woken up so early
@@patrickblake123 Yes, it's normal he would still keep in touch with his family, his mother, even with him... And we understand that "killing" his father was not the best way to overcome the problem and this leaves a mark on a human being, It's not the right way... but at the same time (and that's what I want to believe anyway) he gave him the tools to know that he can, we didn't have time to see it...
@@m-sherezade6165 I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on the last point. Wesley didn't become the person he has become by this point because of Roger. He became the person we see at this point because he was away from the council and the shadow of his father and given the chance to grow at his own pace and in his own way. The abuse didn't make him strong. He became strong in *spite* of it
@@patrickblake123 Don't worry, maybe because English is not my native language, I still don't explain it well. At no time did I want to say what you understood... So, so as not to get involved in explanations that may not have been fully clarified. Let's summarize it this way: exactly what you say I think the same and I agree.
Good question. There was a previous episode in which Wolfram & Hart was attacked by cyborgs that relates to this but they never did explore it further in the series or provide any answers. It’s strange. Maybe the writers lost interest or the plot thread.
The cyborgs and Wesley's dad were made by the good guys and were sent after them because Wolfram & Hart was still evil and it was believed team Angel were corrupt or being corrupted, it's a theme that comes up a few times over season 5 in the slayer episode and with Giles refusing to help with Fred/Illyria that the other good guys of the world have turned their backs on Team Angel due to their affiliation with W&H. I've wondered if it was all meant to be part of a larger storyline that never got the chance to play out properly due to being cancelled.
for a character to go from someone as low as Wesley was in Buffy to be as heroic and dark as he was in Angel is a testament to Alexis acting chops.
Totally agree.
Or the nature of the show
Credit to the writers too. The transformation of Wesley from pratfalling, bumbling, pompous Wesley to the pinch hitter in the clutch, making the tough calls, ace in the hole Wesley was gradual enough to be believable. You saw Wesley find his purpose, lean into it, and then answer the call of duty even when it meant to raise a dread hand and and the occasional discarded foul rag.
@@victorpradha9946 Totally, the writers did a HUGE job on this character evolution.
I really enjoyed Wesley's story arc from how he started in Buffy and how he ended up in Angel. Really great acting and writing all around.
I love that he didn't hesitate to save fred.
It's now 2020 and I'm yet to see a character anywhere near as good as Wesley.
Facts!!
An actual modern Byronic hero. We get to watch being formed.
Leopold Fitz would like to have a word
He’s the best character I’ve ever seen. By far my favourite in the buffyverse.
@@lucadeeley8377 especially when you look back at his first appearance in Buffy. He came such a long way.
Number one trope of all time: someone about to say something important but all they manage is "I -" before they're interrupted.
Totally!
Wesley and Illyria/Winifred will remain my favorite couple of all time. The scene between them in the final episode of the series was so good... Even those on the set were crying.
I totally agree with you!
I just love the premise of that scene. How earlier in the episode Wesley explains that as a Watcher, rule 1 is knowing what's real, because in a world of magic, it's hard to know. He acknowledges the reality that Fred is gone, and won't take a cheap lie as a substitute.... but once he's dying, he just wants some happiness, and takes what he can get. Plus I just love this dialogue:
Illyria: This wound is moral.
Wesley: ...... aren't we all.
@@KS-xk2so I think Illyria enjoyed that moment as much as he did, maybe more.
When she earlier took on the "Burkle persona" when Fred's parents showed up, afterward she expressed her desire to Wesley to "explore it further."
Then after Wesley's death when she reached the alley, she says "I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control it."
That is what she wanted to explore because as a god she appreciates the beauty and gravity of things, the power of it. Especially in regards to life and death as a (mortal) human.
@@orionxavier6957 One of the many reasons I wish we'd gotten a season 6 is to see what Whedon would've eventually done with Illyria/Fred.
The beauty of that scene, aside from its Shakespearean tone, is that the viewer is mourning the deaths of two characters simultaneously, Wesley and Fred. We know Wesley is dying, and we know that Illyria is NOT Fred. When Illyria undertakes the guise of Fred, an illusion that Wesley knows is not real, she does so with Wesley's consent. She also does so out of some fondness for Wesley, perhaps as a result of absorbing/consuming Fred's consciousness when Illyria usurps Fred's body. In that moment, we are grieving thrice: 1) Wesley's impending demise; 2) Fred's untimely departure; and 3) the unrealized romance between Fred and Wesley. The great irony is that Illyria who was unintentionally responsible for Fred's death is the one who avenges Wesley's killing. Like I said, the scene was absolutely Shakespearean.
For me, the Realest and Truest aspect to that scene where Wesley absolutely *believes* that he is executing his own father for having ruined his life and now going beyond that to threaten the people he loves and the person he loves most in The World is what he does immediacy after he just has - he immediately walks slowly over to the corner with his back turned, vomits, straightens back up, and after needing only a few short moments to regain his poise and composure to pull himself together, he is more or less just about completely *fine* ...
He was more than likely in shock at what he had done
I still can't believe Alexis Denisof is actually American.
and married to Willow
I love badass Wesley. He's one of my favorite characters. His father threatened Fred. So he didn't hesitate one second. Right on. I'd do the same if someone pointed a gun at the woman I love.
What if the woman you love pointed a gun at your father.
Both shows how much he's grown an how much he loves Fred.
After all of this time, I still hate that f.ing Nox and consider Fred/Wesley one of the best love story ever conceived.
Last 5 seconds made me rage so hard
Amy Acker is so beautiful.
Think that was the moment fred saw wesley finally 💞💞💞💞
I don't even know why they bothered makiing him a machine. Reduce the impact of the scene, never get used later. Living with this would have been another of Wesley's burdens and he wears them so fine...
Wesley: I...I feel guily cause I wanted to kill my dad."
Don’t we all?
wow I really wish knox didn't exist
yeah
-Wesley, all of series 5
Oh hi Mark
Oh hi Danny
You are tearing me apart Fred!
Oh my God! Who's that intruder?!!!!
Knox or Nox, however it's spelled. The guy who basically killed Fred.
Wesley’s arc was the best in the Buffyverse, and with characters like Spike, Willow, Connor and Faith that’s saying a lot. Maybe if Firefly had continued we would’ve seen a more compelling arc but I doubt it. Incidentally go back and watch episodes written by either Tim
Minear, Mere Smith or Steven DeKnight and watch Alexis’ performances. All three of those writers excelled at writing Wesley.
Why did they hafta kill off Fred and Cordy😡🤬
Joss Whedon hates Charisma Carpenter
Hard to believe but it was this Season Denisof (Wesley) suffered a Bell's Palsy attack during filming paralysing the left side of his face.
Ah, enter mythluster
Love love LOVE this scene! Wish we could've gotten more of Wes and Fred together. The fact that he didn't hesitate for a second to shoot his father when Fred was in danger, just, wow
Is it just me, or is being fired the best thing that can happen to a watcher? Giles got fired from the Watcher's Council in season 3 of Buffy and from then on you see Giles at his most badass. Wes got fired, also season 3 of Buffy, and you see him get more and more badass after that happens, when he shows up on Angel. Like, being fired was the best thing that could have happened to either watcher. They both got harder and tougher and better for it.
Yes, Wes and Fred are beautiful... I also like their performance with Illyria but that intensity was also because of the love he had for Fred, he was so precious... and it was so sad.
They have always put the watchers as an archaic order and that uses the hunters and the people under their command as tools.
Wes's life from what we discovered in the series was horrible, the mistreatment of his father another member of the MOL was trauma and abuse. The Wes we met in Buffy was a self-conscious one despite all his skills and preparation, with much weight over. The Wes de angel and its evolution is a marvel, it was a difficult journey but he found out who he was.The best thing that happened to them is that they were effectively fired.
I 🧢 the writers of this show when it took forever for Fred and Wesley to be together for she died one episode later!!!!
Weren't Wesley and Fred an item before she was infected by Illyria? IIRC when that happened and they couldn't save her didn't emotionally tear Wesley apart?
Why the hell can i not find the one where he shoots his dad now? video wise.
man Wesley is my favorite
ruclips.net/video/4M9ioNlsNqU/видео.html
Really wish something *did* happen to Wesley's dad cause it was kind of cruel that Wesley doesn't event get real closure on the abuse he went through as a kid
Certainly, it is frustrating to know that Wesley's father was not actually involved in this. However, for Wesley, he was still his father. The process of overcoming the limits he set with his father, to the point of "killing" him, meant that if something were to happen in their real relationship in the future, Wesley had broken the toxic bond with his father. He would no longer be the son of the abuser, but a completely different being who had evolved on his own and had the capacity to believe in himself and rebel. Although we may not have seen it, this would be a way for Wesley's father to pay for his actions, since Wesley would never allow him to abuse him again.
@@m-sherezade6165 but the episode ended with Wesley trying to call his sperm donor and not even getting a word in cause Daddy dearest was angry for being woken up so early
@@patrickblake123 Yes, it's normal he would still keep in touch with his family, his mother, even with him... And we understand that "killing" his father was not the best way to overcome the problem and this leaves a mark on a human being, It's not the right way... but at the same time (and that's what I want to believe anyway) he gave him the tools to know that he can, we didn't have time to see it...
@@m-sherezade6165 I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on the last point. Wesley didn't become the person he has become by this point because of Roger. He became the person we see at this point because he was away from the council and the shadow of his father and given the chance to grow at his own pace and in his own way. The abuse didn't make him strong. He became strong in *spite* of it
@@patrickblake123 Don't worry, maybe because English is not my native language, I still don't explain it well. At no time did I want to say what you understood... So, so as not to get involved in explanations that may not have been fully clarified. Let's summarize it this way: exactly what you say I think the same and I agree.
Welsey > glies
What episode???
Lineage
Creo que debo comprarme está serie...
Debes, debes... ;-)
Si
but none of this makes any sense; why would someone build a robot version of his dad & then send him to threaten his friends?
Good question. There was a previous episode in which Wolfram & Hart was attacked by cyborgs that relates to this but they never did explore it further in the series or provide any answers. It’s strange. Maybe the writers lost interest or the plot thread.
The cyborgs and Wesley's dad were made by the good guys and were sent after them because Wolfram & Hart was still evil and it was believed team Angel were corrupt or being corrupted, it's a theme that comes up a few times over season 5 in the slayer episode and with Giles refusing to help with Fred/Illyria that the other good guys of the world have turned their backs on Team Angel due to their affiliation with W&H. I've wondered if it was all meant to be part of a larger storyline that never got the chance to play out properly due to being cancelled.
I could be wrong about this, but I keep thinking Kate was going to be involved with the group that sent the robots
0:48 YOU RUINED THE MOMENT KNOX!!
Hahaha I would have liked to erase that voice!!!
Too bad fred liked black dudes 😢