The Chatham Bus Disaster (1951) - The Marine Cadet Tragedy
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2022
- At the time it was Britain's deadliest traffic accident, made all the worse by the fact that the victims were all young boys aged nine to thirteen. A dark night, a group of Sea Cadets marching in the road and a bus being driven with no headlights were the ingredients for this preventable tragedy.....
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This is heartbreaking. Lieutenant Carter showed a startling level of misjudgement in getting the cadets to march three abreast in the road and with their backs to oncoming traffic, with no warning lanterns. What on earth was he thinking?
Yep, I think this was all the Lieutenant's fault. So very unnecessary.
I guess he was not thinking at all during the heat of the moment, anyone who lived or been to Ireland & Great Britain would know just how dark the nights get, its pitch black and driving manners in Britain specially were atrocious even up till 1990s, hell, even today they are pretty wonky, even in Scandinavia you are required to have headlights on at all time regardless of the light outside as a car with headlights even in broad daylight is easier to spot than a car with no headlights. Imagine it in dark of night were visibility is 5 - 15 metres in front of you, a bus of that size and speed, no chance, it was a freak accident of greatest proportions.
The driver was a convenient scapegoat.
In dark uniforms as well.
You all make great points. Such a absolute tragedy.
can we just talk about the injured boys buying the bus driver gifts to try and cheer him up from his guilt? Like this whole thing was so horrific and tragic, but can we just take a moment to appreciate the pure good and kindness of the children that even through their pain they were concerned about the bus driver - that is literally the most pure thing I have ever heard.
Anne, I agree with you whole heartedly. You sound a wonderful person.
Yes, that was an amazing thing for them to do. He must have been beside himself with grief.
The driver’s good soul earned the love of the children. A good man is always loved. There are many good men in the world. Unsung heroes.
Only a child could be so pure hearted at all times
I couldn't agree more
The six survivors who chipped in to buy the driver chocolates are among the finest examples of the best of humanity.
The driver deserved the forgiveness. Poor man what a horrific thing to live with.
I agree
@@GA-os1uyHe probably never smiled or laughed again for the rest of his life. This was a tragedy.
I would suggest that it may have been a form of survivor guilt. It helps them to forgive themselves if they also forgive him. Or something like that.
Speaking of the driver, I feel bad for the guy. He definitely wasn’t trying to hurt anyone and had to live with the tragedy for the rest of his life. It’s horrible.
More blame should land in the shoulder of the man leading the cadets.
Yeah why would he not have them carry some form of light
Or move out the way when they heard a loud as f ancient bus barrelling towards them.
The man leading the cadets is not to blame either. Why was there no safe place for these kids to walk?? Seems bizarre to me. There should be safe places for people to walk along the road. There should be wide sidewalks for people to walk on.
@@felixthecat2786 They were walking in the road side by side. If they went in single file they might have fit on the side of the road safely. This was also the olden days so roads and walkways weren’t that developed. Use what they have available in a safe manner and it could have had a better ending
If the driver could not see a block of 50 kids what could he see?
I suspect the driver was going faster than he thought and was paying less attention than he should. the driver had finished for the day and was heading back to the depo to get reedy to go out. he had driven down this road for 50 years why should anything different happen this night than all the other nights?
"Why was there no safe place for the kids to walk?" well that is what roads are for. they were Navel cadets marching to a navel base. if the bus was doing 20mph and cadets marching around 4mph should that not be within normal traffic variance?
Apparently the officer had ordered the boys from the middle of the road to the side so that the bus could go around.
In the end while the officer shouldn't have relied on others for visibility,( the Gov for street lights and other road uses for their own head lights)(because you don't want to pay for others mistake) The driver not being able to see something in the road is a bigger issue. he had left himself no way of avoiding this disaster. eg if the kids had marched on the other side of the road and an oncoming motorist had swerved on to his side of the road to avoid them how would he have seen that?
I do think he payed a heavy price for his one mistake in 50 years of driving
As a student of history who's talked about "old people driving practices" with my 86 year old father, I'd like to point out that it was exceedingly common to only drive with parking lights on in well lit areas over here in the States in 1951 as well, because at those speeds the anemic charging systems vehicles of the day had couldn't supply enough juice to power the headlights, and long-term night driving would lead to a flat battery in relatively short order. It was considered pretty normal because of this back in the day.
Thanks for mentioning this. It's very easy to be outraged when looking at this story from the perspective of current road safety standards. It's a sad fact that many of the road rules we have now only came into effect as a result of tragedies like this.
Added to the poor charging systems was the fact that vehicle drivers were used to WWII driving at night restrictions.
I did not know this. Thank you. I was born in 1960 and by the time I took drivers ed one of the first things they pounded in our heads was to never drive with just the parking lights on; headlights to be on “half hour before sunset to half hour after sunrise”.
@@TheByard Thank you for filling in a gap in my own knowledge!
I missed that because we are from Chicago and those concerns were not a thing here like it was over there and on the coasts here. So they never came up in our discussions.
My first vehicle had a dynamo to charge the battery, It put out 3 amps at low speed and 17 at road speed. I fitted a truck battery at 3 times the proper ampage so I did not have to charge the battery at home so often,
This reminds me a lot of the semi truck driver who drove through our tiny school in North Dakota and managed to miss all the children inside. An old lady drove out in front of him and she sadly passed away, but it knocked him out and he drove up the hill and through our school, bringing along one of the students cars parked outside. My sister and I got the worst of the injuries, and were put in an ambulance with him. With glass and drywall in his mouth, he wouldn’t stop crying and apologizing to us, even when we told him we were okay. I was never able to turn around to look at him because my head was strapped to the gurney, and he suffered extreme depression afterwards. My school sent him cards and flowers on occasion, and I hope so much he is doing well. If You read this, semi truck driver, my sister and I are fine! I hope you are doing better
Funny. An accident like that would definitely have hit the news here in America! I have yet to find anything on it!
@jessicapearson9479 why do you immediately question this? Does it make you feel better or something? This person gains nothing from lying, and if the accident happened before the 2000s in a small town, there's a good chance the newspapers it was reported in have never been digitalized.
Edited add: it happened in 2012 in Watford City, ND. Took me three minutes of googling to find it.
This is why I love youtube, people have such interesting things to relate.
If you Google "North Dakota truck drives through school," it's literally the first article you see.
So either learn how to use a search engine or stop with the bullshit.
Only a month ago a SUV crashed through the fence of a school in Wimbledon, killing two young girls and wounding 15 others during a school picknick and that made the national news in the UK and also was news in other countries. Although the fact that it happened during the grand slam tennis tournament may have contributed.
He was receiving an award for safe driving. There is no .way he had any intent. I agree with the factors that played into the tragedy and personally think the penalty from the courts was appropriate thanks to the community in helping raise funds. The boys sending him the gift should tell us all we need to know. They were fine young men to even be able to begin to contemplate what the bus driver was going thru. It shows alot of their character... if the boys were willing to extend an "olive branch" so should we all.
Excellent video. Thank you.
It is almost as if the universe was setting the poor guy up, the worse type of irony....
At least those around him could see it for what it was, but still... you a mean one, universe!
@@lostbutfreesoul right?! The poor guy is on his best behavior, a model employee who even did the "right thing" by tucking away a little nest egg. You know we were taught the good guys always win but as time goes on, I am starting to think the good guys NEVER win.
Not gonna lie, a few moments in my life I've truly wondered if this is all some sort of sick joke and somewhere someone is just kicked back laughing at us.
My heart just breaks for that guy. The victims definitely didn't deserve it but neither did that poor driver.
You just never know what could happen. Sad.
Absolutely. That poor man. What an absolute nightmare.
@@lostbutfreesoul I really do appreciate your kind thoughts for, probably the "biggest villain", yet also and, paradoxically a victim of this tragedy, the Bus Driver himself.
Now, I know that some people will say"prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law", to which the Magistrate in the case said "that the burdon of guilt you carry ... Is more than any Court could punish you with", and I would say that, that's more than enough.
The weight on this Man's shoulders, would be more, far more than most other people could bare. I'm sure that if I was responsible for such an accident, and, at the end of the day, that's all it was, well I know that if I was responsible for taking the lives of just so, so many young kids well, I don't care if you think it's weak, but as soon as I left the Courthouse, I'd be in my car, and straight off the cliff I'd go, but I'd rather make it so that all are sure I'm actually dead somehow, but no sorry, but that would be it for me.
I know that I've been covering a pretty dark topic here, so I will try and finish on a bright note.
Anyway,, 🍺 cheers 🍺 from Australia 🍺!!!
The company dinner the following night actually went ahead, in spite of the accident the day before, and Samson received his acknowledgement and award from the company. I bet it was a pretty sombre affair, to say the least.
Seeing the driver’s picture and hearing how he stayed around while the victims were identified broke my heart. As bad as I feel for those killed, my heart hurts for the man that had to live with that pain.
I was born in 1937, so I was 14 at the time of this accidents. It´s really hard to comprehend how much time these poor souls have lost, how much I have enjoyed life in the last 70 years, time they never got to marry, start a family, have grandkids and even great-grandkids
Thos 2 men changed the path of the future for these boys and their families.
Sounds like youve had it easy in life.
I started crying at the part about them trying to cheer him up with fruit and chocolate. I watch disaster shows all the time, but this one hit real hard.
"I watch disaster shows all the time"🤣
That bit made me teary.
I never knew of this until my late grandfather told me about it. He said that the driver couldn't live with what had happened and ended his life. Do not know if that's true but so sad. RIP all.
Myself as well. Devastating accident.
I cannot, under any circumstance, think of situation when marching a column on a public road in dark uniforms with no lighting is a safe practice.
Used to be common in the US, now they have pt belts that are reflective but that more current.
These were kids and not military men so single file on the sidewalk would have been considered proper.
Don’t judge by todays standards. There was little to no traffic then and it was very common for there to be marching columns around
When I was twelve years old the only time I marched on a public road in a dark uniform was during parades.
When I saw the picture of the area. I said I would never match anyone on a major road.
You do not have time to react when marching . Your not watching traffic. Never assume the cars or trucks see you.
Especially with fog.
Just poor judgement .
But driving dangerously is okay? Being on the road and not having 4 wheels is dumb. Dingleberry operators suck too. But bikers and motorcyclists..... Are garbage people with zero common sense or common courtesy.
My heart goes out to those poor boys and the bus driver-if anything the Lieutenant was more-so to blame as he was walking the children in the road, in 3 abreast, without any lights. As for the driver, considering how he brought his life savings to court, he must've been ready to pay whatever cost the judge ordered him to pay, and he must've felt so terrible for the remainder of his life. Those boys sending him a gift was very kind and mature of them, to be so young and experience something horrible, but to be able to understand that it was just a terrible accident, and to try to reach out to the man in an attempt to help.
My old cadet unit, such a tragedy, they are still remembered, RIP.
My father may have trained you 🤔🐨🦘
@@florence2095 83-1988 and then joined Royal Marines for 24 years!
i am currently a cadet at this exact location it is so heartbreaking that this happened here
God bless you, my brother🙏🏼
Raven, you had me crying like a baby. This is tragic from every side. I don’t believe the driver go off easy. He had to live the rest of his life known what he was a part of. I feel if anyone is culpable, it would be the man leading the boys. Where were his brains not using flashlights and spread across the road like that. It was a trash waiting to happen.
I cried like a baby too. I genuinely cannot imagine the devastation and guilt... the idea of being responsible for a tragic accident like this is my greatest fear.
My thoughts exactly. I feel the leader of the boys was at fault. I cannot imagine crossing a road in the dark without any lights. How foolish.
You are judging it by the modern view "car is king". That was not the standard at the time. Roads of necessity had to be used by so many things. Horses and carts with feeble kerosene lamps at the rear. And all road works were lit by those same feeble kerosene lights. Most people had to walk everywhere. And traffic was light. It is presumed that the boys could hear the bus and step aside. Perhaps they did. But the footpath was far too narrow for the task it had to fill. I might also add that flashlights in those days were nothing like what we have available today. However can you imagine any driver today driving after dark without lights? Yet that was commonplace the video says. Why?
@spud spuddy So this fact make the driver the last victim of this terrible tragedy.
@spud spuddy So this fact make the driver the last victim of this terrible tragedy.
I'm Surprised That Lieutenant Carter Did Not Receive A Court Martial For His Actions.
Covered for their own & he was probably sent off to a far corner of the Navy to serve out his days
I'm not surprised one bit.
@@jamessimms415 Speculation for which you have no evidence
@@Primordial_Synapse So you think the children deserved to die?
Oh my God this was so heart wrenching. All of those involved were victims, including Mr Samson. I can't imagine how he lived his days with such guilt. To hear that those who survived sent him a gift to cheer him up is beautiful. So many deaths due to some incredible circumstances that combined to cause this tragedy. 😞
I continue to be impressed with the class shown by having no commentary or music while the victims names are on screen. Very respectfully done! I also imagine that doing these videos on obscure tragedies has to take a toll on the creator. We appreciate it my friend
This has brought back vivid memories for me. One night, on the way from one job site to another, in the darkness I saw the tail lights of a vehicle up ahead, blink out in an odd way. I slowed down only to then suddenly see a TODDLER on the road directly in front of my work truck. I instantly hit the brakes and lit up my high beams.... the child had wandered out of the yard, onto the road while the parents were talking to someone in a car just off the side. I leaned on the horn until the stupid father realised WHY I was doing so..... He hauled the kid away by one arm as the mother came running out screaming.... The kid was perfectly safe, but had it been a larger vehicle, or a semi trailer doing 60.......... Thank God for the car in front of me is all I can say.
God, I'm so glad this didn't end horribly both for you and that poor child. I'm glad you're so observant!
I can say I was relieved in the end of this anecdote.
Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪
@@ariahazelwood3842 Thank You Aria. Yes, I always keep my eyes peeled and stay at a low speed past that spot now. The sad thing is, you cant always have high beams up, due to oncoming traffic, and the street lights along the left side of that road, where the houses are, are mostly blocked by tall trees. So the road, and worse during a stormy night.
@@figgeberglund4145 Hi there Figge! Hello to You from Australia. Thank You. Yes, its an experience I never EVER want to relive.
That tell tale blinking of tail lights has alerted me to pedestrians in dark clothing in the road at night countless times. It's a literal lifesaver.
Why wasn’t Lieutenant Carter put on trial? He was at least as responsible as the driver
I lived in Medway for 30 years and don't remember hearing anything about it. I was born in 1956 . I was also in sea scouts and remember going in and of the navy dockyard. Dock road was always badly lit as well as the fact it had very high walls on both sides which was dark brick. Thanks for your time and work in making this.
Thanks for sharing. Agree those high dark walls I noticed in the photos made it more dangerous. Even more important to "Put some light on the subject," as my high school math teacher was fond of remarking.
I moved to Medway 40 years ago and I too, have never heard of this story , thank you for posting, it’s a heart breaking story …
I grew up there as well, as did my mother's side of the family and this is also the first I've ever heard of it.
Lower part of dock road was very wide it's had numerous bus stops there . These I think we're put on for dockyard workers to go to different places in the Medway towns. So I suspect the driver was just not aware as he done so many times he was in autopilot mode. This also had the problem that the paths were very narrow indeed beyond the large area set aside for bus's. As most workers caught the buses as it's fairly long walk to any built up areas at the time , so very few people walked.
I’m from East London and have never heard of this tragedy either.
I’m gonna share this video to my father who was born in 42 and was also a Sea Cadet.
I wonder is he’s remembers it.
I commend you, Raven, for covering the tragedy in such a considerate and thoughtful way. I live about 1.5 miles as the crow flies from the scene and I remember my Mum telling me about 'the boys who were killed down there' when we were standing at the top of Dock Rd when I was about 6 years old. That was in the mid 60s. Those poor kids have not been forgotten in the Medway Towns...
Given all the circumstances I feel so sorry for the driver. He was practically a scapegoat in the days when the word of a Naval Officer carried more weight and went largely unquestioned. I've been down that road many times by bus and for the Officer in Chargec to suggest the bus was doing 45mph is laughable - even in the technologically advanced buses we have today. The 20mph claimed by the driver is much more realistic.
I dread to think how he suffered mentally for the rest of his life.
RIP lads.... Per Mare Per Terram.... 🙏
When I was a scout we used to always had to have a rear red light or lantern when walking in a group in a road, no pavements where I lived. Even in the 60s we all knew about this tragedy. I think the adult leading the column bore a larger responsibility than the bus driver.
That road, with its high, dark walls is still practically the same today, and it's one of the creepiest places I've ever been. Reading all those names, it makes you wonder what those kids would have gone on to achieve, and what kind of lives they might have had.
I drive up this road often and your right it’s not changed apart from the new cycle lanes. Horrible accident. Poor boys
Dock Road had a creepy, unsettling feeling back in the 1990s when I Iived in Chatham. There's a feeling of death and loss about the whole area - stimulated, I guess, by the many memorials to fallen sailors and marines. IIRC, Chatham has been an important Royal Navy base since the time of Henry 8th.
they've recently repainted the markers for the old bus stops on the side heading up the hill
Oh this one gave me the goosebumps. It is literally a perfect storm of poor choices and wrong place, wrong time. The anguish of the bus driver really got to me, and the silence with the names at the end felt really fitting for this tragedy
My heart is aching and my mind stops for a moment by hearing 24 kids were killed by a bus. I felt sorry for Mr. Samson's, Lt. Carter, and those who survived the accident that day. Condolences to the 24 kids who loss their lives that accident.
Are you aware it happend 70 + years ago?
@@variovent look up the word retrospective..
@@variovent We are ALL aware that it was in 1951. Feeling sorry for those that went through tragedy a long time ago is to have compassion. By the way, the siblings of those kids are / may be still alive. They too carry their pain *now* in 2023.
Poor Mr. Sampson. I feel so sorry him. Why wasn't Carter tried as well? He was more negligent than Sampson was.
Officer in the Royal Marines vs bus driver. Just the way the cookie crumbles.
@@kieran5191 your name is very fitting😂
Oh man, this was a very sad story. For everyone involved. RIP young cadets. 🙏
Rip fly high with the angels 😇🙏🙏
I am glad the judge made the observation that the mental anguish the driver was going through far outweighed any possible punishment the courts could deliver
This is the first story that has made me tear up. It was the injured boys pitching in to try and cheer up the driver that did it. What sweethearts! I feel so awful for the driver too.
Oh what a tragic event. I am so devastated by all the deaths, but I lost it completely when you said the boys bought the bus driver a gift to cheer him up. Completely lost it.
This made me cry. It's so messed up how this happened. I completely blame the man who told the boys to march in the road at dark.
I drove Greyhound Buses when I got of the US ARMY. Whenever I would drive the route on my way down to Louisville Kentucky there was always that sign outside of Carrollton Kentucky, that said the site of the fatal bus crash. During the month of May the sign would be covered in funeral flowers.
Thank you for keeping the memory of this event alive . Hopefully lessons were learnt after this but knowing what human nature is probably not .
Some new laws were passed after this - buses were fitted with an extra kerbside light to be used after dark and any marching columns on public roads were required to have a red lantern (I think) at the rear.
This is a truly tragic story. I legit do not understand why you do not have more subscribers. You do a fantastic job conveying the stories and providing visual aids. Keep up the great work!
The bus driver was brought before the law but what about the man who was the leader of the cadets and who had made the decision to march down the road without carrying any warning lights? It seems the bus driver and the lack of adequate street lighting at the time were largely responsible for the tragedy but, in my opinion, the boys in the street without any warning lights was an unforseen risk.
during the early years of WW2 street lights and car headlights were turned off because of blackout regulations.
the accidental toll was terrible. Thousands died
@@Marvin-dg8vj 1951?
@@jdlamb4212 I know but the point I am making is that if the street lights are off the accident rate rises a lot
True; a simple flashlight to alert passing traffic should have been just common sense.
Thanks for reporting this. I'm 56, and knew through family members' recollections about other disasters like Aberfan, but I've never even heard of this appalling tragedy. I feel sorry for that poor bus driver.
How hurt emotionally do you think that driver was? Do you think that incident affected him? I am sure it did. That man must have felt deep sorrow for what had happened. He was a victim as well.
And it wasn't his fault
BS, he was no victim, his gross negligence was a major contributor to the death of 24 young boys. Life is full of choices and consequences and mitigating the actions of the bus driver and calling him a victim is a slap in the face to the 24 dead children and their families for many generations.
Surprised he didnt move away…
Each year seeing the parade for the dead and re-living the tragedy.
I dont kno how you could live with that trauma. I wouldnt have judged him if he moved away or killed himself. At that era with no social support or therapy. Yeesh, get out of that situation quick
@@Adrian-zd4cs Contrary to what you might think; in reality it was both mens fault and they were both guilty of causing the death of these boys. You can't get away from the facts. the driver would have seen the boy if he was not so stupid to drive with just sidelights in a dark street and the other guy also stupid for having young children march 3 abreast of a public road at night particularly when there was a perfectly good, safe pavement to walk on. The stupid actions of these men caused the death of all those children; there is no excuse for what they did but the only thing in their favour is there was no intent to do the kids any harm but that doesn't change the facts that they did cause harm. The punishement is for them knowing what they did, You can't honestly say if you saw these men that it wasn't there fault because no matter how you look at it,, it simply was there stupidity that caused these kids to die.Sending either one to prison would not have served any purpose and I believe the penalty they had to endure was knowing what they did and living with that fact.
What you on
It was Lt Carters Negligence; but what price did he pay?
Thank you for posting the victim's names
Terribly, terribly sad. And a second devastating blow to the Chillingham area. About 20 years earlier, in 1929, a firefighting demonstration went very wrong at the local fair, resulting in the deaths of 15 people, most of whom were young boys.
Gillingham not Chillingham
Sorry, my mistake.
A tragedy where the words "If only" cropped up again and again as I watched. A very sad tragedy that I'd heard nothing of until I'd seen this video
The 2 worst words in the language " if only"
The first disaster I personally remember seeing on the news was when i was 6 in 1966 ,The Aberfan disaster in which 144 children and teachers died, i can still picture my mother crying as she watched the news.
Mine was the 1980 Mt. St. Helens eruption; I was also six.
I was eight, it was the Northridge 'Quake in 1994.
They spent so much time comparing it to the '89 Frisco quake that I took a long time to realize it was why I conflated images from the two.
Mine was the Lockerbie disaster and to a lesser extent the Challenger disaster 2 years before, I remember the Lockerbie disaster being on the news forever.
I had a mate who was in the cadets at the time of Lockerbie and got sent up there to help with the "clean up" - he didn't even know what he would be facing until he arrived on site and was given a bucket full of little flags, which he was told to place whenever he found a part of one of the passengers.
@@theravenseye9443 I can't even imagine what kind of horrible experience that must of been, must live with them terrible image's for the rest of there lives.
I was a sea cadet years ago, my heart goes out to all the surviving cadets and family members that unfortunately still remember this night.
It couldn't be easy living with this memory all these years.
It's videos like this that help us to remember these lives.
Thank you.
Quick note to express how I very much appreciate the quality, tone, perfect measure, and dignified simplicity of all your videos (not to mention your narrative voice); from the more obscure events that ought be better known, to the infamous ones you offer new (to me, at least) human perspectives to draw from, your work is positively engaging - please keep going.
some 'facts' are incorrect; 5:39 for eg, not all 24 of the dead boys died that night; 1 lingered.
We had a major bus crash in my province of Saskatchewan in Canada, April 2018.
Sixteen individuals were killed on the Humboldt Broncos hockey team bus, mostly players in their late teens to mid 20s, along with the coach, trainer etc., while 13 more were injured.
Their bus was hit broadside by a semi truck, driven by an individual that was not properly trained, and had many infractions during his short career.
He pled guilty, and received eight years in the Penn.
The collision occurred approx. 90 kms from my home, and shook not only our province, but the entire country.
My heart goes out to the families of the boys in this incident, to be full of excitement about a boxing match, such tragedy.
What horror for the driver. A dreary night, and a Commander that should have known better. Dark uniforms and no carried lights. Terrible.
Beautifully presented Raven, and done so with such respect and dignity for all those involved in this tragedy. Very well done covering such a heartbreaking story. Blessings and peace to all the families who lost loved ones on that awful night 🙏🏻
Sad, very sad, and totally avoidable. My heart goes out to the bus driver and all the families of the kids who perished.
I am a bus driver, and I can tell you most of us aren't in this for the money. It pays very little for our responsibility.
We are in it because we actually care about people and want to get them home safely.
I can only imagine how awful the driver must have felt, although I am also touched by the cadets buying him a gift afterwards.
As a modern day driver I am surprised he didn't have the headlights on. However I am also thinking those headlights would have been pretty much useless anyway.
Using them may have saved a few lives but I doubt it would have eliminated the accident.
Oh it is a high stress job.
I may be retiring from it this year because of that alone.
I don't know where you get the idea that if the driver had his lights on would have made no difference. I wonder why we have headlights on vehicles. Are you suggesting that if all drives drove with no headlights on there wouldn't be any more accidents than there is now. I am surprosed at your opening statement but then again I am a lawyer and I am not in it for the money. I just love to help people. Come off the wall.
@@johnrobinson1020 John,
Look at the original headlights on vehicles made in the 1930's.
6 volt batteries, if you were lucky, the mirror plating wasn't perfected yet plus lousy lenses. They were rather pathetic even compared to what we even had 50 years ago. Just switching to a 12 volt electrical system was a big improvement in vehicle lightning and is the first mod most people make on vintage cars because of this alone.
My guess is this is the sole reason why the bus drivers rarely used them at that time.
My guess is that they were mostly intended to make it easier seeing other vehicle traffic driving on the road.
You know if you see white lights ahead you have a car driving towards you.
One or 2 red lights and you have a car driving away ( 1 tail light was standard until just a few years earlier )
Cars may not have even had signal lights back then.
They would still have been a big improvement over the gas powered headlamps from just a few years earlier.
Oh low 6 figures if I drove a truck, which I am licensed to do.
Lucky to make $60,000 driving a bus with more responsibility.
@@sailorstu
Stu! busses in the 50s had enough battery power to run the entire bus with internal lights and very brightly lit too, upstairs and dowm on the double deckers. the battery was charged by generators at that time and headlights on busses were mounted close to the road, low down at the front of the bus so the driver could see the road clearly.You are right there was no such thing as clear blinking turn signals on cars or busses at that time and some busses only had one small red light low down on the bottom of the rear of the bus and was hard to see. It did come on with the brake but hardly visible and it wasn't until later in the 50s that red reflectors became law to have of the back of motor vehicles.. Most signals by drivers were hand signals. Using motions to indicate your intentions. you stuck your hand out the window if you wanted to turn right and waved it in a circular motion if turning left, You waved you hand up and down to show you were slowinng down (not all cars had brake lights in those days.) and you indicated to drivers behind that you wanted them to overtake by gesturing with your hand telling that it was safe to overtake. There was traficators on cars too but they were so small and dim you had a job to see them and they were incorporated in the side pillar of the car. Busses were taken off the road if the weather was too bad. Sidelights were actually, by law for parking in the streets at night so other motorists could see your vehicle parked there even if you parked all night they had to be left on and that is why sidelights were not very powerful so as not to drain the battery. Sidelights werer never designed to rely on for driving with.In the newspapers and on the radio it would tell motorists what time was "light up time" at night and that varied depending on what time of year it was. Sounds funny now but in those days we didn't know any different.
Light commercial vehicles were limited to a top speed of 30 miles per hour and heavy vehicles had to travel no faster than 20 mile per hour.
@@johnrobinson1020
I wasn't alive at the time so I am only speculating John,
Although I have worked on many older vehicles and know how bad the lighting can be, and also how much a few small changes can make a huge improvement.
Even just swapping out a 12 volt generator to a 12 volt alternator made a big difference with my old 63 Ford F100.
Oddly enough the biggest safety improvement I made on that truck was installing an electric window washer pump rather than the old foot activated air pump while keeping it looking stock.
One thing I think we can both agree on is you had to be a good driver back then.
No automatic transmission on trucks or buses, not even power steering on some.
Drum Air brakes did exist, with no ABS or even engine brakes on most large vehicles.
Shoot not even air suspension or good seats. Most commercial drivers had bad backs by their 40's
Personally I would have had trouble navigating some cities without a GPS.
I agree. My Dad was a lorry driver in the fifties and sixties and vehicle headlights were indeed pretty feeble compared to modern ones; light lens and reflector design and bulb technology are in a totally different league now (no to mention vehicle and road design in general and driver training). I used to go with my Dad every Friday night and I remember seeing the aftermath horrendous accidents. Amongst a variety of lorries Dad drove some had headlights that were so weak that when driving in a street-lit area you couldn't really tell if they were even switched on! I also remember Dad being badly shaken up one night when we nearly ran down a couple (wearing dark clothing and walking with their back to the traffic) who only became visible at the very last moment - it was actually the back of her knees between the tops of her boots and the hem of her skirt that he spotted just in time. Also at that time it was quite common to see vehicles driving on just sidelights in urban areas where the streets were lit - a suicidally dangerous practice to modern eyes, for sure, but traffic was much lighter back then and a lot of the lessons that seem so obvious now hadn't yet been learned. I can recall seeing vehicles, of all kinds, driving in fog with headlights off and just relying on one fog light - I think the rules being changed sometime in the late sixties regarding that.
Presumably the bus' saloon lights would have been lit if the bus was in service (suggested by the presence of the clippie) and I wonder if that back light, shining into the cab from behind, might have further dimmed the driver's night vision, something that became critically disastrous when encountering an unlit section of road. Ironically, if the cadets had been marching towards the bus they would have easily seen the illuminated windows of the bus and been able to at least attempt to get out of the path of the oncoming bus. Marching three abreast with backs to the traffic was madness, I wonder if they cadets also remained in some kind of formation, still with their eyes forward as the bus approached from behind, even after pulling in towards the kerb? The man in charge of the cadets seems to have come out of this whole dreadful episode remarkably unscathed. He would have been aware that vehicles routinely drove without headlights (I'm not defending that practice, but it was common practice). He also seemed keen to judge the bus' speed so high, when in fact those old things rumbled along pretty sedately - 40-45 mph would have been fairly flying, not least since heavy steering and brakes would have meant that such speeds would have been pretty terrifying in an urban environment, not something an experienced driver would have done.
But, ultimately, what a unspeakable tragedy. Sadly the advances in road safety have so often only been made as a result of such terrible accidents.
Great vid Raven's Eye. Such young lives snuffed out in a cruel accident. RIP to the boys and condolences to their families.
I just discovered this channel recently- and I have to tell you that it rose into my top 3 YT faves very quickly. Excellent scripting & narration, unique subject matter, intriguing presentation. And all of it delivered in a soothing, charming British accent! (Forgive me if I’m generalizing his specific accent/dialect- I’m an American! Lol) Thank You Raven’s Eye!
Brought a tear to my eye this one tbh. I think it's their young ages that makes it more upsetting. RIP lads. On a side note very well done video, thoughtful and informative 👏
Those kids taking up a collection for the driver deserved amazing lives afterwards.
Aren't you overlooking something? The kids who were killed by the actions of these two stupid men deservedd to have amazing lives too. Do you really believe that kids as young as 9-10 11 etc would have thoght to do that on their own volition.
I very much respect the thorough research and calm narration of these videos, well done. I look forward to them and thank you for your work.
You are welcome.
Tragic story, thanks for posting. The practice of driving at night on side lights only was very prevalent back in the day. It's quite noticeable in old movies and was still common when I started driving in the 80s. I've no idea why that was but it's the total opposite of today when every vehicle seems to have an array of laser beams blinding everyone, day and night.
The battery would drain v quickly using headlights because of poor charging system back then I believe
Excellent mini-documentary. I really appreciate your intelligent, sensitive and compassionate treatment of this tragedy. Excellent work.
I started my career 22 years ago as a Gillingham (Chatham) bus driver. The incident was still remembered in the depot. It is said that the bus was eventually taken out of service and converted to a recovery vehicle, but was not widely publicised so as not to draw attention to it. Allocating drivers to it had been difficult.
Was this one of the reasons for retiring the use of Chatham and District as a fleetname , with BET moving everything into Maidstone and District ?
@@highpath4776 I don’t think so. Many of the companies owned by M&D started to lose their identity under a rebrand. I think it was just a rationalisation of the fleet. Depots got closed and vehicles got redistributed. That’s how I ended up working out of Gillingham because Chatham and Luton had already been closed.
@@smada36 When was Chatham closed - in the 1980s it had the rather strange integrated bus station- ?The Pentagon? To be honest the Medway Towns are places I somewhat avoided ( unless I needed to get to Thanet, or had a friend in Sittingborne and relations on Sheppey not that I went to either much. M and D's main other acquisitions apart from BET/NBC tidyups of Gravesend/Dartford LCBS operations - Autocar of Maidstone I think went to London General but post 1933 the area went back to BET, it was the Hastings operations that went over to full M and D Branding - I worked with an ex M and D chap at part of NBC at Oxford but we didnt really talk as I had some specific work to do and he was off a bit with spinal problems.
@@highpath4776 I must admit, it was all a bit before my time. I joined the ranks in 2000, so National Bus had already gone and the likes of M&D, Kentish Bus, London and Country, and Mercury had already been swallowed up by the Cowie Group to become Arriva. Luton Depot was already a housing estate, and whilst we used the canteen and social club on the top floor at The Pentagon, the first floor paying in room was largely abandoned. I drove the last of the fleet that had once been painted in the NBC M&D colours, but were all now in the champagne and cyan colours of Arriva (Apart from certain vehicles in Tunbridge Well and Dartford depots that were champagne and red for TfL services), that with each passing year became steadily more blue to the colour you see today.
Over the five years I spent with them, I worked out of various depots in Kent, doing a few jobs not just driving, but spent the last of my tenure as a driver at Sheerness Depot, (recently closed).
I became a coach driver after this and whilst I look back with fond memories of those days, I had no wish to go back to working for a bus company. I was lucky enough to be asked to drive for the Olympics in 2012, operated by Stagecoach and if I ever needed a reminder that a bus company was not for me, that was it.
I went freelance in 2011, and I don't mind doing service work in buses, I took on a school service contract through Covid, but I'll do it through a coach company thanks 😆
"Criminally negligent": this hit harder than i thought.
I watch a lot of disaster videos and this is the first time I have cried.
Well done.
BRB crying more.
A tragic and complicated story very well done. Thank you!
God bless those sweet children and their families. Its not the bus driver's fault, its the man who chose to walk in dark. He did not bring the children any flash lights.
This was a tragic accident and I feel for the family and friends of the cadets who died as well for the bus driver. There are a lot of ifs (like if the bus had it's headlights on, the cadets were carrying lanterns and the street was working), but why the Lieutenant Carter thought it was a good idea to march them three a breast is a mystery. RIP to those who died.
This was a balanced and well done presentation. Thank you
Wow, what a really informative but horrendously sad story. I've never heard of this tragedy. Thank you for providing this video.
A tragedy beyond comprehension. So many young lives lost in an accident that could so easily have been avoided. May their souls rest in peace.
Oh man. This is so sad. I do feel bat for the bus driver. It seems to me the Lt shoukd have been charged too if the driver was.
It's still spoken about in the local area to this day.
I found this emotionally moving!
I know this area very well.
Thank you!
As a ex Royal Marine cadet glad this story is getting told, poor cadets R.IP
I was, in no way, outraged at the light sentence. The guy clearly had remorse, just like Raven said there were many factors involved, and honestly the guilt should really be shared with the Cadet troupe leader not placed solely on one man.
Utterly gutted! Thank you for sharing this story! My heart will remember this and the loss of those innocent kids and the broken heart of the bus driver.
Thank you for your compassionate narration. RIP boys.
Very sad. There weren't many holes in this "swiss cheese", but they lined up horrifical perfectly. Such a tragedy.
Have you thought of doing the Dibbles Bridge coach crash in Yorkshire, 1975, another PCV tragedy?
At one time, bus companies used to move their vehicles around between depots a lot. This would also sometimes be done if a vehicle had been involved in a particularly unpleasant incident. I assume that the Chatham bus company only had the one garage and so were unable to reallocate this bus.
I will have a look at that - that was the bus full of pensioners on a day trip, right? Another awful tragedy.
the scale of this tragedy is almost too much to bear!
Another fantastic job done on a terrible story. Please keep up the good work. We all look forward to your future endeavors. 🤙
As I see it, the greatest contributory factor to this ghastly incident was Lt Carter's inexplicable decision to ignore road safety 101: had the column been facing oncoming traffic, the boys might have seen the approaching bus in time to scramble onto the pavement. Also, as faces reflecte light so much better than dark fabric of their, the driver might have seen the boys in time to take evasive action.
BTW, I was deeply touched by the injured boys kindness in sending the driver a gift to 'cheer him up'. This obscure, yet highly significant, scrap of information would have escape most researchers' notice. But not the Raven's eye, and it is just the sort of touch that makes your channel a cut above.
Not only that, but the cadets would've been marching down the other side of the road on the right!
Is this why people walk and run on the 'incorrect' side of the road into oncoming traffic when there is no pavement? Is it a legal requirement to do this?
@@chatteyj yes it is, but then if you are going round a bend you often cross over to the outside so you can be seen better.
If the boys had been marching on the other side of the road, they would not have seen the bus as it approached the boys from behind. The traffic in England drive on the left side of the road so the boys would not have been facing the bus even if they had been on the right side of the road it would have still been approaching from behind but of course the driver may well have missed them as he was driving on the left side of the street. Certainly a bad decision by both the driver and the guy in charge of the children.
What a truly sad story 😭
Thankyou for sharing this tragedy that should never be forgotten. You know ive was just in Chatham and now i will for search out and give my respects to those young cadets. God Bless and Rest In Peace.
I live just a few miles from where this happened! Thank you for bringing this to the wider world!!
The really sad thing is all those young lads thought that they were going to be heroes defending their country but they lost their lives just being young men
That was totally unexpected and I feel he was a scapegoat. Someone to fasten the blame on. 25 years of loyal service to his community. He was well known as a good driver. I t was very unfortunate. Sorrow brings vengence and I feel he was victimized as well. This incident was very much an accident. No criminal intent. Bad decisions were made but there was no intention to hurt anybody.
It's not a question of criminal intent, but rather one of criminal negligence.
Thank you for posting this article, events like this are to easily forgotten about. It's like the tragedy that happen at the toll bridge at Penmaenpool in Wales in 1966, coming just after the Aberfan disaster, it was virtually forgotten about.
I'd actually never heard of this dreadful incident before. Thank you for this.
Tragic event for all involved. As with almost all disasters there are multiple factors that create the circumstances and clearly this is one of those. If someone, anyone had recognised the individual risk they were creating the outcome would likely be different.
Thanks for highlighting this event as I had never heard of it. That, despite spending a few years living in that area....
Having been a driver in a fatal road accident which was not my fault it took 40 years for the nightmare to abate. He would have suffered for the rest of his life with what he had done, even though the majority of the tragedy was not his fault. In my opinion the man in charge of the cadets was more at fault for not walking on the correct side of the road, for the UK, facing oncoming traffic and not having any torches with them, now, it would be easy as we have Hivis.
I think the responsibility for this tragedy should be equally shared between both men. I wont call it an accident because although not intentionally, the fact remains that the stupid actions of both these men killed those children. Making excuses for them doesn't alter the fact of what they did was the utmost incompetency by both men and is beyond stupidity.
The bus driver was no doubt on auto-pilot and he chose not to use the bus headlights which the bus was equipped with; he was found guilty of dangerous driving and the bus company fined for negligence.
We lived in Chatham then, my father was a recently retired from the Marines, but I have never heard about this maybe because my family were then dealing with me very seriously ill coming up to my 1st birthday. Thank you for highlighting this terrible accident and loss of young life 😢😢
Is it just me or did anyone else binge watch this mans great channel ?? keep it up mate!
As a coach operator this sort of scenario is . I don’t even have the words to describe the anguish I feel for all parties involved.
I liked the well-made video, but not the sad subject. That was so utterly tragic, and heartbreaking, and that some of them could be heard crying from under the bus, but couldn't be helped in time... Awful, just awful.
I was 3 when this happened. It seems to have escaped my attention since, until now. This is a situation where you can feel for everyone involved. The driver especially ! Such a sad incident that leaves me with a sense of loss, even though I neveer heard of it till now. Thankyou for bringing this to my and other's attention.
Heartbreaking. The story almost brought me to tears. To the researcher and narrator, thank you for bringing these boys into our thoughts and hearts.
I don’t see myself as being anything other than a broken man for the remainder of my days if that was me.
I understand why he was driving on only parking lights. He simply had no choice if the bus was expected to run all day.
This occurred before the alternator was invented. The battery was charged by a generator. They don’t give any current at low engine speed. Which is what a city bus does a lot each day.
It was probably even 6 volt electrical system. Signed by Lucas. No offense. But Lucas didn’t pass Bosch in advanced electronics until the 90’s.
@@terrystevens5261
The beetle had Bosch. I have one from 1966 that I’ve driven even in the winters here in Sweden. I installed a way bigger battery though that I strapped in the space behind the rear seat.
But the light was still awful.
Respectful and informative video. Thank you
Thanks for the education, what an avoidable tradegy, almost embarrassed to say that I hadn't heard about this incident.
I'm usually a pedestrian and despite living in a city there are a number of places where the sidewalk just ends or is blocked by some idiot who parked their car fully on it. If I'm forced to walk in the road I always stay as far to the side as possible, turn on the flashlight on my phone, and continuously check for cars both before and the whole time I'm in the road. I even use my flashlight while using a crosswalk at night because I've narrowly avoided being hit by drivers turning even during broad daylight. I can't imagine why their leader would have children walk across the entire road without any lights, but also why a driver would go that fast without headlights at night.
Shocking that of the blame apportioned, only the driver got it. The man leading the cadets was surely more to blame. No rear light to warn of the boys' presence and I thought that everybody knew that if you have to walk in a road you *face* oncoming traffic, not have it coming up behind you. And if they really had to march, why not go two-breast on the narrow pavement rather than three-abreast on the road?
So I learnt a piece of local history I had no idea about watching this. It's such a tragic tale but really well told in your video.
As the parent of a child that was a cadet at the Chatham Marine Cadets, I attended annual memorials at the graves of these poor children, with my son in full dress uniform. Thank you for covering this tragedy. As parents of cadets, this incident was discussed every year.
So, if I may, I'd just like to add that 'marching in the road with no rear warning light' (at the rear of the marching column) and that the bus 'with only his sidelights on' (around 7:20) were sadly also quite the norm and 'legal' back then. Also 'legal' was drink-driving (only 'being found drunk' was illegal) as breathalyser testing wasn't introduced until the late 60's. The 'pedestrian rules' of the Highway Code (rule #5 re "Organised walks or parades') were introduced later.
Despite all the opinions given in the comments, it is a matter of fact that the John Samson was convicted in a court of law and found negligent. Compensation (if you can ever really be 'compensated' for the loss of a child) was paid on the basis of John Samson's negligence - so I'm not terribly sympathetic - but maybe that's because I've stood at the gravesides of those tragic children, where you can see that some of the distraught and heartbroken parents were subsequently interred with their deceased children.