153 - Cities: Skylines (feat. Justin Roczniak)
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
- Justin Roczniak (Well There’s Your Problem) joins the lads from some good, old-fashioned city planning as they cover Colossal Order and Paradox Interactive’s 2015 city building simulator: Cities: Skylines. Topics include the origins of city building sims, the many pleasures of Ulm, and the horrors of fully-rendered teeth in a game where you just want to optimize traffic flow.
Justin Roczniak: Twitter (x.com/who_shot...) // RUclips ( / donoteat01 )
Well There’s Your Problem is a podcast about engineering disasters and systemic failures, from a leftist perspective, with jokes.
• RUclips ( / @welltheresyourproblem... ) / Twitter ( wt...) / Instagram ( / wtyppod ) / Patreon ( / wtyppod )
• Listen on Apple Podcasts (podcasts.apple...) / Spotify (open.spotify.c...) / Google Podcasts (podcasts.googl...)
Media Referenced in this Episode:
• Cities: Skylines. Colossal Order. 2015.
• Cities: Skylines 2. Colossal Order. 2023.
• Urban Dynamics. Jay W. Forrester. 1969.
• Playing Cities Skylines 2 While Getting Dangled From a Crane ( • Playing Cities Skyline... )
TWOAPW theme by Brendan Dalton: Patreon ( / brendandalton ) // brendan-dalton.com (brendan-dalton....) // brendandalton.bandcamp.com (brendandalton.b...)
Commercial: “Andy Phillips Presenting to the Doodleburg Town Council On the Eve of the Great ‘Fill The Hole’ Construction Project, July 15th, 2044 ” // Written by A.J. Ditty // Starring A.J. Ditty as “Councilman Mancouncil” and David Armstrong as “Andy Phillips” and “Charles Foster Chungus”.
Roz starting the ep about the peculiarities of buying alcohol in PA is both extremely Pennyslyvanian Coded as well as extremely Roz coded. The experience he detailed of "the first time you travel outside of PA to a state that doesnt have dumb liquor laws" is so true. It happens to everyone, you go on a road trip, and when you stop at your first gas station outside of state lines you have culture shock seeing beer in a gas station, although the laws have changed now.
@@Phished123 some interstate travelers lost their minds seeing 40's and bought a whole entire case to take with them
A city on a hill turning into a sewage tsunami is a very poignant image. Probably the best representation of the United States I've ever heard.
ULM MENTIONED
It is impossible to make a paradox game withiut ulm, for it is the greatest power.
@@Dawa1147Mobile I thought it's because of famous composer Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitzweimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm
Go Warhawks
TWICE MENTIONED
In Ulm, um Ulm, und um Ulm herum!
ulm is a paradox gamer meme, cause in eu4 for the longest time they were like one of the weakest and most obscure city states in the game that actually had a unique idea set rather than the generic ones, and people would do challenge runs or post a screenshot on reddit if the ai ulm managed to become the emperor of the hre or vassalize poland or whatever
As a person with severe depressions who sometimes struggles to leave the apartment, I would actually not mind someone showing up at my door and telling me that I will go to the library now. That's a service I would pay for.
RUclips queued this up with Kill James Bond after WTYP and I feel so seen
Yay Justin!
showed up next to trashfuture for me!
@@harrycullen6515 yay Justin!
"Police! You can save me from the library men!" *A wave of smiles.*
“There’s a tutorial!”
Minutes later “I thought sewage relied on gravity for five years” 😂
Workers and Resources is that you?😭😭
@@aturchomicz821workers of the world rise up !!!
@@KarolOfGutovo WRSR literally couldnt be more avert about how Marxism Leninism is a poisonous ideology, at least in Tropico 5 your Communist people can feel _free_ working in Union Shop Cooperatives while enjoying the luxuries of an uncensored Internet... 🥺🥺
Seemingly paradoxical as a WTYP fan but YAY JUSTIN
YAY JUSTIN!
What is this??? First time hearing about this pod as a wtyp fan from donoteat episode 2
Well with Nova starting off yesterday's WTYP, things are kind of weird today. :)
@@nitehawk86 totally...
Paradox Games-ical
In my opinion, all Cities:Skylines 2 needed to succeed is be a well coded, expandable, performant base. The old game being quickly developed by a small team led to a lot of tech debt that still haunts the game even in it's current final evolution. Be that all the various quirks of trying to mod the game and the weird way all those mods interact with each other, the stifling agent limit, and especially the seeming performance cap that limits the game to running slow and choppily even on modern high end systems.
I think most people knew that C:S 2 would be a step back content wise, but so long as that base game could hold more ambitious, well performing mods and expansions it would be worth the years of waiting for that content to build up. Unfortunately, while some aspects of the game are better coded then the OG, a lot of the game suffers from worse tech debt than the original. The past year has basically been patch after patch of replacing or reworking whole systems that should have been perfected on day 1.
In my opinion, Cities:Skylines is spiritually twinned with Kerbal Space Program. They both launched as relatively quickly built games by small teams. They ran well on computers of the time, and featured an ambitious but decent enough core experience. Much of their updates added content along side performance and QOL improvements, along side a massive selection of game changing and enhancing mods. Both were still haunted by their origins, with lackluster performance on modern hardware, tons of jank, and with signs of their age very apparent.
Hell, even their sequels were twinned. Both sequels were marketed like crazy as the (understandably) next coming of gaming Jesus. Both launched in abysmal states, unoptimized, extremely hard to run, incredibly jank and tech-debted, and without the modding support that both games desperately needed. Lots of community trust was lost, core content creators grew distant from the developers, and horrible community management in the months following.
The only thing I can say is that, while KSP 2 seems doomed to die in it's current underwhelming state, C:S 2 is getting it's chance to redeem itself.
I hope like nothing else that C:S 2 gets fixed, gets full modding support, gets the community back together, and gets good. It's just unfortunate that like so many games, we had to stumbled so needlessly far down shit canal that could have been easily avoided.
Your first paragraph was all I saw before the "read more", and I was already starting to go "Wow that sounds a lot like KSP2's struggles"
My opinion on the game that I still hold is it has some good bones, and will be a good platform for the next 10 years, it just wasn't ready for release and needed at least 1 more year
@@jamesbedford7327I think you're exactly right. It's been almost a year now, and I think CS2 is really close to where it should've been at launch. If asset mods still make it this year, I think we've basically made it "to release".
I played cities skylines 2 since nov 2023 and I've enjoyed it far more than heavily modded cities skylines. Whatever issues the game had, it really wasnt all that game breaking. The most important thing to me is realism is integrated in the base game, rather than dependent on mods that break with every update. I have thus far still not tried any mods - im sure they offer quality of life improvements, but they are no longer necessary.
I cant believe Cars are allowed on Pedestrian roads (Plazas and Promenades erasure😡😡), Jesus what a horrible launch it was😭😭
Tell Justin: In pipelines, your batches mix at the end, usually you have a tank that the mixed products pour into. Eventually the tank gets full enough that they put it in a truck or train, ship it back to the refinery, and they just reprocess it. The loss from different product batches interfacing with each other is pretty minimal, and the refinery hardly has to work at all to separate them out in the towers.
Fruita Colorado does it the same way! (Names are a little different but the grade clustering is identical) 51:13
I thought most people in Gallup worked in polling
one thing i found interesting is that sim city 2014 failed by trying and failing to be dwarf fortress. speaking of that would be an incredible episode topic
30:00 What a beautiful way of describing the raw and unappreciated beauty of CS1🤧🤧
34:42 Dont let the CS community hear this🗿🗿
38:35 SC4 Office Propaganda😡😡
46:10 The Eden Project is such a beautiful late game goal, right??😭😭
52:40 There are no death spirals in CS smh😔😔
53:35 This isnt SC2013 wtf😡😡
55:53 The Stasi is here monkaS
59:09 Imagine making an Agent based game without a failsafe, so youre saying to me im paying 5k per hour for a helicopter fleet and they cant put out a simple fire?? SimCity 2013 once again wouldnt have done this😐😐
1:11:44 The End of history is E-Mail Sadge
1:28:00 This will be CS in 2020😭😭
1:33:39 Holy shit just like me, never again 6 lane road with bicycle gutters😭😭
1:54:12 Yeah we dont talk about the Cologne incident💀💀
1:58:50 Kiosk PC incident OMEGALUL
I love they referenced the shit lagoon 42:44
Re: Cities in Motion - I can't say for a fact, but I suspect that the reason Ulm is available as DLC is because Ulm was kind of a meme among the Paradox forums; IIRC it was one of if not the weakest starts in Crusader Kings at the time, and so was a popular challenge run
Just subscribed, gonna listen to slme episodes tommorrow. This podcast seems right up my alley
"One of the co-hosts of WTYP"
_Co-host?!_ I mean, yeah, Devon does actually run the show, but _co-host?!_
So I'm a US citizen but grew up & live in Europe. The fact you can't just buy booze anywhere and, really, all the drinking rules in the US are all hella confusing and the fact it changes from state to state is even more perplexing. I have only been in the US twice as an adult; once to register for selective service and once for a family matter. I do not understand US drinking and alcohol sale norms. It just makes my head spin.
I'm sure there is a video of former London mayor Ken Livingstone playing SimCity 2000 and complaining about how you can only zone areas and then wait for the market to fill them. But I can't find it anywhere and now I'm worried I saw it in a dream.
Oof soooo close to hearing Justin's take on A Pattern Language
All CS:2 needed to be was CS:1 with a bunch of the best mods integrated into the base game and the engine optimized to run like that.
I *still* have the big sc2000 book with the vector art cover that is super in depth. Everything is Stocks and Flows.
Yay Rocz! One of the funniest mfers alive. Sc3k was a weird middle child, but it had a banger soundtrack. more like Memory Leak XXL
I really enjoyed this; so refreshing to hear Rocz uninterrupted. Also, the "Philips/Allen" joke was, if anything, too clever!
45:18 the true Skyrim experience
Listening to this, I can't believe how bad people can be at city building gamrs. Now I have a better idea where to start explaining things.
Ask Justin about the next episode of Franklin, and also if he's heard of Workers and Resources
Just like its 2019🥰🥰
by sc4 my philosophy was a good city is grown like a bonsai tree because the simulation needs time to percolate your changes.
lol thousand plus hours in skylines not one monument built. I'm trying to create a real modern western american city with all its dysfunctions and then try to fix that.
5:50 "like a podcast with a patreon"
My dislexic ass could not record this episode, it would be a running joke unintentionally that i call maxis marx on a constant basis 😆
Original SimCity was out for the Amiga too.
Not only did I love this episode, but I kinda want you to tackle two more management sims with very different flavors but nice limited scopes:
--Jurassic Park: Evolution-- dares to ask the question - Hey, was Hammond just bad at his job or is this inevitable? You run several park installations across the FIVE DEATHS, and as you achieve certain milestones you not only unlock the next island, but new park options and upgrades.
A lot of those upgrades are just making the dinosaurs more lethal, harder to see, and harder to kill.
You can also take photos from a ranger Jeep like you're in Dead Rising, with extra cash for catching a dinosaur in the middle of eating, or battle, or anything more exciting than asleep. You can also customize the names of everything, buildings and dinos included, and yes that does mean you can name them the worst of all possible puns.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE
Tropico 4 dares to ask the question: How would you run Cuba? You create your own El Presidente from not just a bunch of avatar designs, but also from a list of traits, up to and including Kleptomaniac, Tourette Syndrome, and with the Vigilante DLC, ALTER EGO - where you become an ersatz Batman at night apparently, and crime is lowered the longer you have the trait. Here's a list of the traits: tropico.fandom.com/wiki/Trait_(Tropico_3_and_4)
If you act within 13 hours of this post, it's free on GOG.com, so that should be extra incentive to get started building an island, making housing for the impoverished, setting up both plantations and tourist industry, and of course, legalizing gay marriage and then placating the Religious faction with a cathedral.
www.gog.com/en/game/tropico_4
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THERE’S ONLY SEVEN HOURS LEFT
Tropico series is pog.
WE LOVE EL PRESIDENTE
God Tropico 4 is so good with mods, sadly theres still no mod that lets you plant trees you find in the natural environment like the Oak and Swamp trees, I guess ill stick to Gen 5...
"legalizing gay marriage and then placating the Religious faction with a cathedral" Real Tropico bros know you can get away with no Religion by just bribing the Religious faction leader🗿🗿
@@aturchomicz821 Look, some of the people who get big mad about the marriage thing also go to church, which makes it convenient to weed them out when they turn criminal as a result. Cause it's not nuanced about it, so rather than being like "Well this is a political dissident who disagrees with you and they should be rehabilitated" it's like "FUCK YOUR WHOLE TOWN IS BEING OVERRUN WITH CRIME, JUST LOOK AT THIS OVERLAY:"
I need to go to big daddies liqour barn badly for no real reason.
I really enjoyed this episode! Thanks chaps
Opens on a discussion of PA liquor laws... of course. Fun fact, the state stores are closed on election day. Boy were we surprised...
i am pretty sure it was Tesco with the horsemeatballs, not IKEA
oh no i'm wrong it was both lol
The problem with trains and certain other vehicles showing up with low capacity is is happening because the cargo hub/train station is sourcing them from all outside connection that the building is connected to. To get it to work you need to make sure that it is only connected to one outside connection per direction.
This applies to rail, water, and air transit with outside connections
1:42:00 They're not going to find the rest of Shada because it was never actually filmed - it was derailed by a strike and they just abandoned that episode. Douglas Adams (who was writing Doctor Who at the time) wound up combining it with the plot of City Of Death to create the novel Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.
OKAY someone please point me towards info about why arterial / collector / local doesn't work. That just seems like the obvious way to do it, and having it be loosely based on biology ALSO seems ideal because biology just naturally optimizes stuff like that.
I’m not a civil engineer (or a biologist), but I believe the reason the road version is inefficient in real life is just because cars are an inefficient way to move people around. Arterial/collector/local is an efficient way to move cars, as far as I know, but the problem is more zoomed out.
But also, biology/evolution is very good at making things stay alive long enough to reproduce, but it doesn’t really go back and optimize things. The bodies of horses are an excellent example of this. So many systems in their bodies are complete nonsense that will break at any opportunity, and yet they stay alive long enough to make more horses (even in the wild).
Much like our roads, our bodies aren't naturally optimized but rather a careful series of systems that if you are lucky don't crap out and die after 60 years. Much like trains, the solution is to replace your body with the sleek, steel cabin of the Shinkansen.
I bet you could search around for something but I’ll throw in my two cents: Biological systems don’t necessarily optimize, they just trend away from being too detrimental. But the vascular system in mammals has something the arterial road concept often doesn’t: collateral pathing. When one path between two points is unusable, there is almost always at least one other otpion, usually traversing different vessels. Artery road systems often leave you either locked into or out of somewhere when you leave main roads, and a main road is unusable then you have to take detours that are comparatively MUCH more additional travel time than in the vascular system.
Cars aren't fluids in 3d pipes. Fluids are pretty easy to merge & split. See: rivers or pipelines. Or blood vessels. Fluids generally do not care if you just shove stuff around at high pressure and wait for diffusion to set in. Cars? Not so much.
It’s an engineer with Podcasts and slides, yeah Justin
Should I play this? Is it a worthy successor to Sim City 2000?
Beyond any shadow of a doubt. Leave Sim City behind, let it's cooling corpse rest.
yes for sure, its like what people playing SC 2000 would think a far in the future SC would be atleast to me. the options of mods and buildings is endless.
SC2K was pretty dogshit no?
@@aturchomicz821 Nah I still play it sometimes. It's fun. Not what I'd call complicated but a fun grid building infrastructure game.
Yes. 1000x yes. And get some of the most downloaded mods. There are videos on RUclips going over which ones are best.
What the fuck is "lagubrious?"
Yay Ulm
Lehigh Valley Mentioned!
HOLY SHIT READING MENTIONED???
1:20:55 and now.... the weather
WTNV jumpscare
Broderbund doesn't mean anything in Danish, I mean, as a compound word. Broder is old Danish meaning "brother" and "bund", ehh, more German, like a "bundt" means a bundle. Funny how close Danish, German and English are huh? Wonder why..
Meatballs.
Spaghetti underneath, ravioli ravioli, great barrier reef!
Beatmalls.
@cityplannerplays mentioned