On systemd, Gentoo and Void Linux (Switching from Arch Linux?)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Should I take my own advice and not distrohop, or should I fall for the Gentoo/Void Linux/systemd-hate meme for the sake of my e-peen?
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I was going to leave a comment about memes but I realized the meme here is that you are actually considering using gentoo.
Im a skrub, whats so bad about it
@@serotonin4011 It's too difficult for bin kids
nice uncle
Is the new hip meme now "BTW, I use Gentoo!" ???
@@orcaflotta7867 It's now "Btw I use Void"
Void linux is a fantastic distro. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a minimalist system without systemd.
Watching you write documents in this manner is mesmerizing. How much time did it take you before you noticed that this method was more efficient for you then a wysiwyg editor. In other words, how long do you think it would take an average person to become comfortable with this method of writing? I would love to see a video from you that shows how to learn this method as quickly as possible - tips and tricks.
Well I originally switched to LaTeX out of necessity, because Word/Libreoffice can't do the very particular formatting I need for some specific diagrams we use in my field (this was around this time two years ago). A couple months after, I started toying with vim, and started adding mappings to write all the syntax for free. The preview window, in case you don't know, is vim-live-latex-preview (which I didn't write myself, but is great).
I would say that I got more efficient than I was in Word in a matter of days (possibly hours) after I learned how to start mapping shortcuts to write LaTeX syntax in vim and really getting used to it. Of course, the change is gradual anyway, every step you take in vim/LaTeX gives great improvements in marginal productivity.
I would just recommend constant little tinkering experimentation with vim (or emacs or whatever) and making it a habit to constantly improve your text editor's config file until it has everything but the kitchen sink. Again, marginal improvements make the transformation easy and worth it.
By the way, I appreciate your Blender series; I watched it and it was extremely helpful when I was learning.
By the way, if you are using blender for video editing under linux. I would highly recommend that you check out my render script. It reduces video render times by 50%, on multicore cpus, and it even let's you render video in terminal:
github.com/mikeycal/the-video-editors-render-script-for-blender
I am not the guy this question was addressed to, but of note: I started using LaTeX with one of those specialized editors -- In my case TeXmaker -- The amount of time it took for me to be comfortable with it was about the same amount of time it took me to work my way through a LaTeX tutorial: In other words, I felt comfortable with LaTeX from the first time I ever used it. It is nowhere near as complicated as most people think it is. I had been using Lyx for a while just out of fear, but as soon as I finished the tutorial I immediately uninstalled Lyx.
My current setup is similar to the one shown in the video, using vim to write code and having a preview which is updated as changes are made (mine is based on latexmk rather than on a vim plugin). Getting real productivity out of vim was more difficult for me than learning LaTeX, not because vim is particularly difficult, but because I had a lot of bad habits (I still haven't completely gotten rid of them) which slowed me down like crazy.
Once I became competent with vim, then vim+LaTeX dramatically outperformed any office suite.
The vim+LaTeX paradigm is not really any more difficult or unintuitive than the alternative: Navigating a bunch of menus and adjusting toolbars only feels easy because you are used to it, but it is actually a huge mess.
tuerda thanks for the info. I can't wait to give LaTex a try. :)
Both in Latex and GUI word processors it can be a pain to align an image properly, or get a table of contents formatted just the way you want it.
Latex makes it easier to get predictable results though: You start to gather a collection of packages you like, you write a bunch of templates, and after a few days it becomes easy to apply a recognizable and professional kind of style to your documents. Of course, most word processors offer template options, but in Latex it's much harder to mess up the details, and much easier to improve and derive new templates.
One of the biggest advantages in my opinion is how professional Latex generated documents look, especially in print. Nice kerning, smallcaps and subtle ligatures, good text justification and hyphenation -- you can't quite put your finger on it when you see a page, but the text just *feels* so nice when you see it.
I've recently switched to Gentoo and I'm loving it. Pretty solid and straight forward. Not good for people that likes to switch DE everyday.
Hahaha yeah. Me too btw. I appreciate that you use Gentoo. As more people use Gentoo as stronger it gets.
Gentoo is great. The installation guide is amazing, and the gentoo wiki as a whole
@@Silent. that installation guide is great, even an idiot like me was able to make it work
sci-hub is the best ;-)
Just installed Void Linux in a VM, and I'm already in love with it (as far as it's possible to love a Linux system). Straightforward install, insanely fast boot, straight forward package manager, plain minimalist base system sanely organised and configured. Just waiting on a new hard drive before I install it on a real system.
When Debian went systemd I decided it was time to go back to Gentoo and see how it had evolved. Running a Gentoo box is much better than it used to be. Learning curve and setup is still there, but in all honesty the other distros had removed me from the underlying stuff too much. Devuan is basically Debian without systemd. I'd love to hear more about Void. The only issue I'm having with Gentoo is I'm having to dive into creating my own ebuilds to have stuff like GitKraken installed through portage. Regardless, it's breathed new life into my system running as lean as it is. I've enjoyed using openRC with Gentoo. I often did custom boot stuff and systemd kept getting in my way. I only feel it's justified when dealing with a large amount of servers in more enterprise environments, not for the average linux home/hobby/programmer user.
For the record BSD also uses separate package managers for source code and binaries... and ZFS can be installed with your system
I love Gentoo. But the compile times are killing me.
I have installed Void Linux on one partition, 2 days ago, still i am blindly walking around :-) but no worries, i will dig it , to see what is this :-)
In the past, I have used to work on Arch, I have tried Gentoo, but all the big philosophy behind those distros are rubbish in my opinion .... People say they are minimalistic, but after installing all the necessary soft, you have / about the same size as Ubuntu, so where is the minimal distro ? Arch, Gentoo are rolling, but do we need updated software every few days ? Gentoo compile with flags and optimisation, but later on what is the time execution profit ? maybe 0.05 second ? .... next rubbish .... In Gentoo we compile everything, Okay, but after the all compilations the programs time execution is almost the same as in Arch Linux, because Arch binary packages use compilation flags too .... So binary installation in Arch takes 5 seconds only, with all the Gentoo's profits.
..... Today I am on KDE Neon Linux, and on Lite Linux, I like the Peppermint-8 Linux too. They use only about 300 MB RAM after start up, they start from grub menu up in 10 seconds. They are lighting fast, in terminal compilation is so fast, that I can not see the text flying up because that text is like a shadow of hundreds lines in a second, software upgrade to the newest version, and distro upgrade to the new version is by ONE command, bum, bum bum and distro is in new version. In Arch pacman is easy, in Lite Linux is similarly easy manager, even better, because you can remove software with 1 word, but in pacman it was for example -Rnsu , but pacman said : there is no such software .... and now you have to guess, what that software is named for pacman .... funny crossword.
Arch installation is very easy, Gentoo is worst through the thousands of parameters, flags, configurations, and additionally kernel to compile selecting thousands of flags, so in the first time it took me 3 days. But OK, we are the geeks, and we love the blood sucking hobby. But Linux Lite to install takes 20 minutes .... that is all, and you can start using your new beautifully looking graphical system, without digging in hundreds of configuration files for a one dot, or # to remove, because a problem.
I think most of us are happy to compile, compile, configure, testing, looking for help, testing again, digging in google, etc, etc .... but the reason of using a computer is simple - TO DO THE JOB DONE. Similarly we have television set to watch movies, not to digging inside the box how the transistors are working inside it.
That is why I think in this way today. After 10 years with Arch, and 1 year with Gentoo endlessly configuring by hands in hundreds config files, now I do my work with pleasure in beautifully designed Linux distros, where everything works straight from the box. I do not need to be Linux guru digger anymore like a donkey, I am pleased by lovely working distro to do my work done, to browse the internet, to install software by 1 command from a repository of 100 K ready to install programs.
I do a computer graphics work, I need maybe 10, 20 programs on my system, and I can say very clearly : I do not need to compile everything again, and again like a stupid maniac :-) .... that is not what we need a computer for !!!! I am on a Linux system, but all the mess with hundreds of distros, each one is differently designed, system files are in different folders, different types of packages, etc .... All that experimentation make Linux weak, on a margin of IT. That is why Windows is winning, because Windows is like a monolith, ONE system, ONE configuration, etc.
Millions people are sitting on millions Linux distros digging inside, but for what ? They hate systemd, but why ? they do not know why, but they repeat like monkeys : we hate systemd :-) I have never problem with systemd, never, ever, I was using it and Okay. As i said on beginning in here, I have installed the Void Linux 2 days ago, because i am one of the diggers :-)
Years ago it was BeOs system, maybe somebody remember ? With my colleagues we were digging in that system nights after night, happy to find a way to change a font in a config file ..... what a crap .... ha ha ha ..... Similarly is in here with the Void, digging for something, but what is the reason to wasting our time, for what goal ? another distro between hundreds other similar Linuxes ? To prove what ? We need a monolithic, good Linux distro, not hundreds fragmented ideas, discoveries a wheel again and again ........ thanks, and please, this is only my opinion.
Loved reading it
+rep
you might like this idea for the paragraphs in LaTeX: each sentence on its own line... it took me half a year to get used to it, but now .tex seems simpler, i can move sentences around faster and i like it a lot (and diff, too!)
Huh, wow, I never thought of that, but it's crazy enough to be extremely useful... I think I'll try it!
I honestly think you hit the nail on the head with your previous video. I've tried pretty much every Linux and BSD distro out there over the years including the really obscure ones. You were right when you said it doesn't matter too much. It's all slight variations with the bulk of it being the same. You're just getting slightly different combinations of GNU userland, Linux kernel, and a package manager. I wouldn't worry too much about systemd in particular. The init system's not something most people interact with frequently, particularly on a desktop system. When you start talking about things like Void, you're getting into the realm where you're going to run into problems with distro specific issues and very few people (or no one) will be able to help you out. There's definitely something to be said for sticking with something more popular. When you're leaving the Top 100 on distrowatch you're heading into uncharted territory for the most part. I'd say stick with the top 20-30 if you want to be able to Google solutions to common issues. Parabola's a bit of an exception as it's basically just Arch minus non-free software.
Speaking of Gentoo in particular: Compiling the distro yourself is probably not going to net any significant gains and there's a chance you wind up with something less optimal than a pre-compiled package.
If you really want to get away from systemd and you only want Free Software, then Trisquel 7 is going to be your best bet. I have an X200 as well and it's great on it.
You can install TeX Live packages on Void using tlmgr. The Void package for texlive-bin really just downloads tl-install and runs it with some arguments, so it works as a regular install from CTAN. The big collections from the installer can be found with "tlmgr search \-\-global collection-" and installed with e.g. "sudo tlmgr install collection-latexextra". There seem to be a few people working on different packagings in pull request #5717 in the void-packages repo. github.com/voidlinux/void-packages/pull/5717
Funtoo user here. It uses OpenRC. Was started and is maintained by Gentoo founder.
I've hopped away from Arch a few times myself over the years.... annnnd I always end up eventually coming back. For all the little warts it may have or idiosyncrasies, it seems to strike the right balance of simplicity for me. I like control and doing a lot myself, but not necessarily at the cost of micromanaging every little thing. Gentoo was a bit much work for me. I agree that systemd has some legitimate complaints against it, though TBH it's never given me any trouble so...eh I don't know.
If I was to use another distro full time I think I'd use Slackware or Fedora though, though I'd prefer the latter to have a more viable rolling release branch to use.
"Do one thing and do it well." I like that philosophy, considering modularity. I know sysv is ancient but have never had trouble/complaints - yet, so much upstream have switched to systemd. Adoption seems inevitable for production boxes at work, so I'll likely end up making the switch on my personal machines too. Oh well. I don't necessarily oppose systemd, just prefer sysv. So, maybe, unless you oppose systemd or just want to fiddle with something new, then sticking with Arch may be your move. There's no _wrong_ move here - unless that move is Hannah Montana Linux ;)
Just installed Gentoo on my Desktop, highly recommended. Its a learning experience, but its a really nice system from what I've seen so far.
Learning to compile your kernel is a bit daunting at first, but the documentation is great and its really just a matter of tweaking it once you get the initial install (Grub will see at least one old kernel with the default setup). As is the community (I've asked many questions in the irc channels).
Oh, and Gentoo can, but doesn't default to being bleeding edge. Its actually very stable by default, and you can "unmask" certain packages as you need, or go full on bleeding edge.
as far as I'm aware you can still strip systemd out and use a classic init system or an alternative. it just takes more setup
Void is pretty nice, I've used it for over a year now without any issues. Runit is probably the best init system/service manager I've used, it might not be the first choice if you have a complex web of inter-dependant services, but that's not usually the case on a desktop system.
In addition to what you mentioned, Void also uses a few pieces of software from OpenBSD like LibreSSL and splits its repositories into free and non-free if you're looking to avoid the latter.
I used to build Gentoo on a Pentium III 550mhz (around 15 years ago), and it's a damning testament to the bloat of software that a Core2 might not have enough horse power. I enjoyed Arch for a while before giving up completely on Linux for many years (and switching to OpenBSD), but I've found Arch to have gone down hill since those days, especially since adopting systemd. I've recently started using Linux again on some of my machines. I'm currently using Mint as a drop in replacement for Windows on the machines where I need to be able to run proprietary things like flash or the nvidia drivers, but I really want to switch to a less cumbersome distribution which doesn't have systemd. I'm quite enthusiastic about Void Linux, but I haven't made the switch yet. Sadly there seems to be almost no videos about it on RUclips, so it would be fantastic to see a channel such as yours cover it.
There are two reasons I don't run OpenBSD on all my machines:
- the lack of support for proprietary stuff (I like to game, and watch netflix etc)
- At present Firefox does not behave well on the system and runs like crap.
I can't recommend OpenBSD for daily desktop uses for those reasons, but I do recommend having a play around with it if you're curious, or want a solid server OS.
I've subscribed in the hopes of more videos on Void though!
When you install Gentoo, open any text editor, and write down every single thing you do.
Then when you make a mistake, you have auditing to back track just to the point where you did something wrong, or out of order.
I have been temped by Gentoo but don't think my Linux knowledge level is there yet to do so. I keep hoping on the binary distros so it might but a stop to the hopping from the pain compared to binary distros
hah i know this video is 7 years old but once you mentioned void's source and binary options my FreeBSD heart smiled
If you go gentoo and have other Linux boxes running on your LAN then definitely look into setting up distcc to distribute the complie load and dramatically reduce build times. Something I've never tried but maybe possible to use Windows machines to co-complie to with distcc using cygwin.
I'm still new to the Unix[-like] field, but I can kind of get behind not using systemd. I even went as far as completely switching to Slackware, but I'm too unintelligent to install software for it (I just switched to Arch; pls halp how do I wi-fi HNNNG). Also, if you need a 64-bit compatible CPU for the X60, there's used Intel T7200s on ebay for literally 0.99USD (as of this post). This video was excellent, man. Stay golden.
except that the x60's cpu is permanently soldered to the motherboard (no socket). i'm currently searching for a core2duo x60t or a replacement motherboard. i want a lightweight librebooted x64 machine with a good 4:3 screen. i wonder if it's possible to just ask someone to solder an l7400 to the board and expect it to work or it requires more serious action. t7200 by the way is twice as hot (34w tdp) and x60 isn't exactly the coolest thinkpad (i mean temperature, of course).
I love Runit. I like xbps. I hate when the Arch Wiki doesn't work with Void. That and when *that* package isn't avaliable in the repos, which happens every once in a while. Arch with Runit would be so perfect...
artixlinux.org/
but perhaps you already have found it by now...
After experimenting with SUSE, Mandrake and Fedora Core 2 in the early days i tried Gentoo and it was the only system that did immediately what i wanted it to do. Since then i looked never back.
I myself took a double edged sword after watching this video. I have a laptop and a desktop. On the laptop I had Manjaro KDE and on the desktop I had Arch with KDE on it, but after watching your rising video and Latex videos, I installed Void Linux on my laptop with i3-gaps and I installed i3 on arch and have been gradually making my rice while not using any other de. I like that void doesn't have systemd but getting wifi to work after install for me on Void was harder than the whole install process to Arch imo. Thanks for making these videos and for uploading your configs on github. It is definitely a help.
All distributions are compilation-based. It only differs in who is doing the compiling.
I recently switched from Arch Linux to Gentoo Linux. Openrc. Kind of happy with it. Except occasional circular dependencies :)
Hi, just switched from Antergos (AUR) to Parrot OS 4.1 studio. Immediately felt at home and runs perfectly on MacBook Pro.
Looking forward to trying Void and Devuan. Thanks for the tips.
The main problem with switching is that so many desktop environments as well as applications require systemd. I started using Linux in 1999 and over the years have been off again and on again with respect to my Linux use, mainly because until fairly recently Linux did not have the software tools I needed. When I came back full time I was appalled to discover that it seemed that every distro out there including one (Debian) I was shocked switched over to systemd. They did the same exact thing with the damn Pulse Audio Server, that no one seemed to be able to get it configured correctly until fairly recently and for years caused nothing but issues. The main thing I hate about systemd is I know nothing about how the damn thing works. I really miss easily installing the latest Nvidia drivers by simply typing in init 3 in a terminal window and then to be instantly in a terminal without the xwindows sytem running. Then with a few commands have the new driver compiled and ready for use and then simply typing init 5 and then to be right back in the xwindows desktop with the new GPU driver running. Now it seems that you are at the mercy of the distro devs to have a properly configured driver that is usually several versions behind the newest that Nvidia has available. Perhaps you can still do something similar with systemd but I have not figured out how. I am old school and strongly believe that "IF IT AIN'T BROKEN THEN DON'T FIX IT" This seams to be the case with systemd. How or why so many seemingly intelegent developers allowed systemd to take over is beyond me. It just seems that systemd is a major departure from the basic unix tenants of KISS "Keep it simple stupid". Before systemd came around I never had any issues with my systems just working so there must have already been many small simple utilities that were used that made Linux work correctly. Now there is this big monster named systemd, I think it must be the spawn of Godzilla!
soo true. another old linux user here..
If it's not broken don't fix it and KISS are primarily the reasons I stick with Slackware.
I can use slackbuilds or sbopkg to install most things I need. Currently using i3 or Mate .
The time factor has kept me from Gentoo or Arch.
Gentoo is awesome. For me everything worked fine as long as the packages were in portage. Anything from an overlay tended to break with every update. That is why I switched to arch. Gentoo community is mindblowingly awesome though! You can always get a ton of help.
...and its OpenRC is the best init system out there! :)
I know there is a Debian based systemD-free distro called Devuan. However I've never used it. I only recently heard of it in the process of switching to Debian. I am hoping to stay on this for as long as I can, I'm very happy with it.
There is also AntiX, which works great, it comes pre-installed with a few WM's and adding a WM (i3 in my case) was really easy, you can actually switch WM's without rebooting / relogging-in in AntiX.
MX Linux is in the AntiX/Mepis" family tree so it is systemd free, Jessie based (att) so there are no 32bit concerns, xfce DE with a great forum and patient dev's among whom is Dolphin Oracle of RUclips. fame. Suck it and see (as the Bishop said to the actress) It has been my distro of choice for a few years now.
The video itself is verrrryyyyy informative
I've been using Gentoo since '09. I prefer OpenRC. I even run Gentoo on an eee pc. To upgrade it, I compile the backup image of its root partition on a far more capable machine, also running Gentoo, in a linux32 chroot environment. Distributed compiling also works, although you can run into problems when two different boxes have different versions of gcc or distcc. The initial install can take awhile, and updates after a few months without updating can also take a long time. Gentoo also has slotting, so you can have multiple versions of certain packages installed simultaneously, such as both PHP5 and 7. You can also use systemd if you want. Plus, you are not forced to upgrade unless the ebuild becomes unmaintained in the Portage main tree, but usually major versions of packages are not dropped (e.g. gcc versions 2 through 7 are available in Portage).
Devuan as mentioned below which is Debian without systemd ..I do use Arch and Gentoo myself having just bought a rather hefty System76 laptop. I love Arch and everytime I leave it I end up coming back thinking "Why the hell did I do that"
Void Linux is amazing. Rolling release (forget reinstalling), no systemd (forget crap init problems), offers Mate, Gnome, KDE, Xfce, whatever, rapidly growing number of available packages, great support, great speed, great stability, great looks... You name it!
Ever heard about GuixSD? It's based on the Guix Package Manager (which is based on Nix) and now, thing escalat quickly: Your whole OS is configured using a single, functional configuration file, written in Scheme. Also: powered by GNU.
I've thought about it, definitely unique, but I think I'm going to wait until it's a little more tried-and-true/well-documented by the community. It would certainly be interesting to run it with Hurd.
Luke Smith Yeah, thats true. Documentation is the most powerful weapon but sadly this weapon is deadly like a water pistol. Btw Hurd is still a thing?
I just installed LFS. No desktop or any of that jazz, its just something to tinker with terminal stuff and some C programming with vim and gcc. nothing fancy. was kinda cool.
Haven't thought of switching from Arch to any other GNU/Linux distro (Arch is too convenient mmkay), but I've been playing around with OpenBSD (also a mixture of pre-compiled binaries in its main repo and packages that can be compiled from source in the portage tree). It's actually really nice. A lot of software that I already use is in the repos right now, and when I finally get another spare machine for testing, it will be installed on bare metal.
If you don't want Systemd, consider giving FreeBSD or OpenBSD a try. They use a classic init system and both have a ports tree.
Maybe you could use Artixlinux since its arch based distro without systemd. You can use runit or openrc.
Luke, please make an advanced video for latex. looks like the PDF is updating live!?! That's really nice :)
Este video tem de ser assistido como se fosse um podcast! ;-P Impossível olhar para a tela!
i tried alpine on virtual machine and it took 5minutes from terminal to default i3 it has openrc and in takes 65 MB in ram
if you uncoment the comunity repo in/etc/apk/repository you can get chromium and flatpak
The fact that the systemd developers are arrogant snakes is enough reason for me to explore other options.
that and I use my computer for compiling Android and other productive things and if systemd decides to halt and not come up again without hours of tinkering like it did a few months ago I can't afford for that to happen. I had Manjaro on my work laptop and one day i couldn't get it to load because of a systemd fuck up and had to switch right then and there. Only downside is that i miss all the programs i could easily get with Arch that i can't get with Void.
Poeterring doesn't even know su, or understand how RAID works. He also thought that the old 'bitcoin assassins' joke wasn't a joke. Not only is he arrogant, he's nearing potato status.
Are they also the same group that is
Anti Free Speech
Anti Male
Anti Western
Anti right wing
@@charliebrownau BaSeD -> the new BSD! But seriously, non-leftie autists need a distro to take over / congregate on.
Why would I care about the political views of whoever makes my operating system? They could be nazi vampires who exclusively drink the blood of infants and I wouldn't care as long as the OS worked good.
Gento looks kinda like lfs mk2. To get more functionality from lfs, you need to dip into blfs. Gento rolls it all together, and it has pkg management. Last time I did lfs was 6.0. Had to go into blfs and it was kinda a pain. I may have to try Gentoo. We'll see.
I've been using Void for like...4 years at this point. It's good, and it works well, but I want to try Gentoo/Funtoo whenever I can build my own PC with a Ryzen CPU. I find myself wanting to build quite a few things from source, and that's the whole premise of Gentoo so why not give it a try?
Generally, I would recommend laptop users to stick with Arch/an Arch-based distro (Manjaro is fairly nice with Architect now) or Void, or shit whatever you want. Gentoo is really only useful when you want to diddle around with building and the compilation of software packages, and consequently have a PC with a good CPU.
Sidenote: If you're looking at Void and want to use Wine for games, just install Lutris and use the wine build it comes with.
Why not try alpine linux?
I use Gentoo with systemd and the only really painful packages to compile are web browsers but I can in fact install and use binary packages for those and even better: built for x86_64_v3 so pretty well optimized. Especially useful for installing the OS quickly and for weaker systems where any update would just take too long and needing to build such packages all the time would make benefits from optimizations moot. On Raptor Lake i5 with 64GB memory and zram setup for swap and portage temporary folders such things build quickly and swiftly enough for even rebuilding the whole system in-place being a breeze. Systemd I have no opinion. Choose systemd profile because its construction potentially allows for quick boot process and it is what I had in Raspbian on RaspberryPi devices.Adding stuff too boot process is a pain the the a compared to simpler scripts but otherwise it is pretty well thought out and modern so well worth the effort to learn how to use.
2 question : forst is compiling in gentoo makes the system or the apps special ? I mean is they function more precize and integrate well with the hardware and is it need a pain manaul intervention or just clone and compile , and one other thing , for me i compile on /tmp but you said about temprory folders, if its adding ramdisk to fstab or what ever plz share with me how to.
I'm pretty much thinking of doing the same, going from Debian to Devuan. The boot time is longer, and GRUB is more spartan, but not much is really that different bar no GNOME or Cinnamon.
Nice video, like the discussion and you have good arguments!
Actually using Gentoo now (with Systemd however) and thus far it has been the best GNU/Linux experience for me.
I used Ubuntu, Debian, and Arch (actually more but these were main OS's for considerable time) but I always encountered problems along the line when the system needed to upgrade/big update.
Unexplainable errors, Xorg suddenly breaking, etc...
Gentoo was a *%$# to set up, especially if you use UEFI and LUKS + LVM. But in the end it just works!
Updates are (usually) smooth sailing, you can easily roll back or even install multiple versions of the same package.
Compilation does take quite an amount of time though, even on a i7 with 32G of RAM (looking at you guys, Thunderbird, Chromium, Firefox, Libreoffice).
So maybe indeed Void is a better contestant, being that one can choose to install binaries. I don't know however if Void can install multiple versions of a package AND Gentoo does offer some packages (like the one's a looked at) as a binaries (e.g. packages.gentoo.org/packages/app-office/libreoffice-bin).
P.S.
If you are wondering why for the love of Saint IGNUcius I'm running Systemd, at the time of the install I wanted to run Gnome3.
I am however contemplating (when i find the time) to try (and perhaps switch) to Sway (wayland i3 port) and Openrc. ;)
whatever distro you install. please make a video of that.. it will be great to see you in action.
I have Gentoo on a dual core and is not so bad actually. To be fair both seamonkey and libreoffice I installed the binary versions... About optimization, I don't feel there is a big difference with Arch, but I like the flags (there is a command "equery -u" you can use to check what every flag does). I am very happy I went out of systemd, so if that thing is itching it is well worth a try. I also like I can have bleeding edge packages and stable ones (I like checking the latest video drivers and compilers, pe.)
Ah, and Gentoo is not really difficult, I think it just got a bad reputation because it doesn't have an installer. It is like any distro, with config files to control everything
First this is an old video but a few comments
1. As google tracks your searches your personal content and similar content comes up in your searches. Do not confuse this behavior with popularity outside of you personally.
2. Compiling a custom kernel is the worst reason to run gentoo. You can compile a kernel on Arch or any other distro just as easily.
3. Are you having a problem with systemd or do you just hate innovation? If you are not having a problem with it then your reasoning borders on FUD. Technology advances systemd Wayland etc and running away from innovation is futile.
The kernel is also big and monolithic so that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Have you even considered the advantages of systemd?
3. Running gentoo because it is a minimal install is also a poor choice you can do a minimal install on any distro.
The reason to run gentoo is the USE flags this allows you to micromanage your install. From my experience it takes a lot of time as compiling Firefox or a new kernel takes a bit of processing power and it is unlikely you are going to see a noticeable boost in performance. My gentoo install takes up less space on the hard drive although this is offset a bit by the tools to compile and headers and takes a little less RAM leaving more resources but web browsing email word processing and similar desktop tasks are about the same speed.
Optimization under the hood or server tasks is about the same as any other distro and you will have to decide if micromanaging your system is worth your time.
Gentoo here. In my opinion, openrc follows the linux philosophy better. Im really surprised that so many distros including arch uses systemd. Systemd is far from KISS. I run musl hardened selinux profile with btrfs filesystem using wayland with Sway. Utilizing lto-overlay, everything is compiled with gcc -O3 graphite and lto, including the compiler itself. Eveything that can be built with pgo and lto is built with it. Despite being hardened, the system is very fast. I set experimental use flag so optimizations are applied for zen 3 cpu in kernel. On top of being fast, its the most stable system i have ever installed. Never crashes, never freezes, updates never break it. You cant ask for much more than that
Slackware has no Systemd as well. I also believe there is Archlinux with openRC as well.
gentoo has binarys also if thats your thing. I prefer source based, and its not as bad as what you may think it is. I have gentoo running on a dedicated server that is a P4 2GB ram and 80GB HD. =P And its a stage 1 install.
I like that LaTeX on background it's beautiful as I am student in Slovakia I hope that I will be able to write Documentation in something else than Microsoft Word. But hey I am in slovakia. :D
Hi, so what is your problem with Slovakian language in LaTex ? you need to install that software and give it a try, simply remove the M$ Word, remove the M$ doors :-) and start your new journey in Linux, any Linux distro is good, everything depends to you, what do you like, dislike, every one is different and every one likes another distro for something :-)
I am a big fan of Arch myself, I hate Systemd specifically for not following the Unix philosophy. I tried Void Linux in the past, I was thinking that I'd end up with Gentoo, but this didn't happen for one reason. Gentoo, for my taste, is overengineered, while Arch tries to keep things simple. I also feel more comfortable with Arch. Recently I had all my hard drives fail and I tried Alpine Linux and used for 3-4 months. It's awesome, but not for everyday use yet. You should try it, enable edge repository for rolling distro.
If you want to keep Arch but without systemd, you can try Obarun (obarun.org). It's a build concept based on Arch but use S6 supervision suite as init and service manager (An awesome init system, very fast and stable like a rock). Also, Obarun exist from three years now and it just incoporated onto the distrowatch database. Give it a try...
Don't see any comments about Devuan. I've never ran it, so I don't know.
I use gentoo with openrc, I think it s a great distro, I don t know yet why I shd try void Linux. Though some few apps requires system to be installed, for those I hv a laptop with Ubuntu and fedora in it
Using Gentoo with openrc, KDE Plasma desktop, super fast and snappy. I installed it as an experiment but its here to stay
Still using?
Impossible to watch (epilepsy warning)
I've always wondered. The argument that SystemD is monolithic, a single point of failure and is an exploitable vector also applies to the Linux kernel does it not?
FYI: I'm just a windows pleb that dabbles in Linux from time to time for fun, and don't really have a horse in the race for what is better. as long as the distro is stable and works for me.
gentoo is only pain at beginning. once you've got it rolling, ongoing maintenance is fairly trivial and easy.
and i have not seen a more flexible distro yet.
Actually I love installing gentoo on a new system. It's so awesome.
Hyperbola (Similar to parabola) uses openrc
It doesn't have AUR. Artix is better.
Void Linux is SUPER fast with Runit!
You might also want take a look at T2 SDE which is basically a Meta Distribution.
Why not Gentoo? What's wrong with Portage?
Which Desktop do you use?
i3-gaps
I got his hidden message
Устраняя преграды на пути распространения знаний
Ok dumb question: what is your "rice" in this context? ("...reproduce my rice..." at 3:27) I haven't heard that euphemism before and Google/Urban Dictionary wasn't particularly helpful.
EDIT: Nvm, found an explanation XD
Just a suggestion, I think you should upgrade from a core 2 duo.
@Luke smith, you can actually install openrc on arch. not sure how good it would work
Ah its LaTeX, cause was wondering what i saw for a few seconds. :D
The text formater what is?
LaTex.
He is now using artix
More interesting in this Video is the Document that u are writing in the background as a german I see some german stuff what exactly is it?
Parabola has an openrc edition
what desktop and windows manager are you using in the background video?
i3
Thanks Luke! What are you using for the status bar in this video?
was running gentoo since I was 15 (arch void) too
Bedrock linux seeems interisting
ay nigga same here
Artix...?????? :-)
Or AntiX :)
He is now using artix
You should listen the talk whose subject *the tragedy of systemd" by a freebsd developer guy. It turns out that he envy systemd and wishes a similar capability in freebsd. When you listen him, he explains very well the reasoning. The idiia is not new. Apple lounchd does the similar thing...
i have such a hate boner for systemd, i still have nightmares from my old arch install. my home folder failed to mount with every update, and the whole "A START JOB IS RUNNING FOR" thing ughhhh. also sysvcompat is complete shit, i couldn't get a single old init.d script working ffs.
Arch Openrc is viable and working, Manjaro or even ArchBang. Void is ok but more based on Alpine (despite what they might tell you). I have tried to switch from Arch but always return.... anyway VM other systems see how you go...
What "DE" are you using here? I really like the "status bar" you have at the top of your screen
I think he used to use i3 at that time. I dunno if it's got a bar or it's PolyBar or LemonBar.
Uhh... im a noob... uh... so i installed void got in... setup i3 installed a couple things and... the whole thing froze and uh... i restarted and loaded in and after a few more minutes... it froze again... like... nothing works... cant ... switch to tty nothing.. know how i can figure out why that may be? ... i started on arch... some of what i learned there .. works here but again... im new so know of any logs or something i can like.... yeah idk anyone?
Which font is used for TeX editing in the video?
My terminal font is tamzen/tamsyn.
where do you get your wallpapers? or could you upload your folder to wherever so people dont have to compile their own list?
He finally made the switch!!!
To anyone that uses Void Linux in 2021 and future, can anyone tell me the selling point for Void Linux and Gentoo?
For example:
Arch there is the AUR and pacman is pretty understandable
I've been using gentoo for alittle while - literally, only about 1 week but having to edit portage's makecfg before I can install was pretty...tiring, to say the least
Are there any way to automate and make installing using emerge a single line process?
Yes, I've tried Gentoo as well, and it is quite time consuming and tiring. Void on the other hand is amazing as it is minimal, simple and fast. You should definitely give it a try!
@@jojipy8309
What are the selling points of void linux?
@@uuu12343 The most protruding:
- Runit is a blazing fast init-system. In my experience it boots extremely quickly, has a low overhead, thanks to it's minimalistic design, and is extremely simple to use. Trust me, learning it takes 5 minutes, and using it is so very simple. Additionally, if it matters to you, it's the most unix-philosophy friendly init-system out there, as it only manages a small number of things.
- It isn't a fork of a different distribution. Personally, OSs such as Artix or Devuan aren't for me; Arch and Debian are designed around systemD, not runit, OpenRC or s6. SystemD is especially large and replacing all relevant code, just to make an alternative init-system to work - I can just imagine what mess it must be - not to mention the security implications.
- Void is a stable rolling release distro. You'll get new software with it being stable. I don't think I have to explain.
- musl and glibc: while musl is more minimalistic in terms of codebase, due to it only supporting the standard C-library some software will not work. Glibc on the other hand is larger and messier, but will work with more software.
- In terms of security Void is always on top. Formerly, they used to ship Void with LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL. That SSL implementation had security benefits and had a more minimal and clean codebase. Since then the maintainers have switched to OpenSSL, due to the improved security and the improved codebase; there was no reason to use LibreSSL anymore.
They have hardened the kernel quite a bit as well.
Because it isn't a fork, the integration of various system modules can be tightly put into place.
All packages are NOT branched from other distributions (Artix compiles files from the master branch of Gentoo, OpenRC, or of Void, Runit, and gathers them in a PKGBUILD file; bad security). Void packages all their packages on their own, and have package maintainers.
- Minimalism. Compared to Arch, Void has a noticeable amount less software and services, after first install. Void took up around 40MB less RAM, without modifying with the kernel or services. Compared to Arch, Void only installs the most necessary dependencies. Thus you'll be able to fine-tune the packages you'll have installed.
It took me a while to figure out why X11 wasn't working properly - I didn't have the xorg input- and graphic drivers installed!
- Packages & XBPS. You'd be surprised how many packages Void actually has.
As I stated earlier, they aren't branched off of an other distro. Most of the time you'll find what you need in the repos. If you rather compile your software Void offers XBPS-src. You can even set compilation flags like in Gentoo (no USE-flags, though). By default only the free-repo is activated, so if you prefer to exclusively use free software, you won't install something non-free by accident. The repos I usually activate are the nonfree and multilib repositories.
- CPU architectures. Void has ISOs for many CPU architectures. Most packages are only for x86(_64) though.
- Installation. You can either use the void-installer, a guided ncurses installation, or install via chroot, a free (as in do whatever you want) installation. It's nice to have both as an option. You also get ISOs with various DEs pre-installed. I prefer going with the base install though and using a standalone WM.
- Community - extremely friendly and helpful community. Unfortunately their only official forum is Reddit, which raises privacy concerns.
- Documentation. The documentation only has basics documented. It feels quite empty. The Arch & Gentoo wikis are very applicable for Void though. If you have problems, you can ask the community for help, and they will be happy to help you and will not be screamed at to "RTFM"!
You should try out Void Linux out for yourself. Only then you're able to evaluate if you like it or not. There are problems that affect me personally, which I might as well list too:
- Wi-Fi is broken in the installation. Apparently it works for other people, but it simply doesn't work for some reason. Not really a problem though - I just install from the local files and setup wpa_supplicant service after installing Void, as it comes preinstalled.
- Discord takes a while to get the newest updates. It annoys me, because Discord keeps bugging me, that I'm not using the newest version and I'm not able to continue. Other packages are always up-to-date though.
Even with the presence of these problems, Void is still my favourite distro. If you are in need of any assistance, feel free to ask me!
Can you change also display server? from Xorg to wayland?
Systemd truly is terrible compared to the simplicity of OpenRC and Runit, but if you're considering switching systems, do yourself a favor and use something actually different, that has a great native filesystem available (let's not pretend that the native Linux filesystems are really all that great anymore), and actually has a way to "containerize" things, like FreeBSD, HardenedBSD, or my favorite, DragonFly BSD!
You've got `pkg` to manage your binary packages, and the ports collection for when you want to build from source, it might take a bit longer for the system to boot, but I've never found it to be significant enough to warrant complaining about. Though it does look like FreeBSD's going to start adopting OpenRC, which can really help improve boot times when the switch is completed.
Go for Slackware, man. ;-)
6 years ago I switched to Slackware after Debian, Fedora, Mint, Sabayon (Gentoo based) and never looked back. Slackware have binary packagages and if you want something not included in official repositories there are SlackBuilds.org.
Finally if this doesn't work you can just download source code for whatever you want and compile it yourself. Then create Slackware package and install using system "installpkg" command. It's far more easier than creating .deb or .rpm.
Best part is that you can just download newest linux kernel from www.kernel.org and build yourself, because Slackware doesn't patch its kernels like many other distros.
That's why I'm using for over 6 years this distro and stopped distro hopping. Currently I'm running Slackware-current 64bits with 4.11 kernel. Slackware is really simple distro to config, espacialy for someone who doesn't afraid using terminal.
How do you handle package dependences? I've heard its a pain in Slackware. Why dont use Gentoo instead?
bro your battery goes down like water down my throat at 3 am
omg I had exact the same idea just before I clicked on this video
stop having a tism attack