Refuting Mormon Arguments: Plurality of Gods in 1 Corinthians 8
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- Опубликовано: 10 май 2023
- Are there many lords and many gods, but only one God "for us"? This tends to be the teaching of many Latter-day Saints-especially concerning 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, which says,
"For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”-yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist"
Does Paul mean to indicate that there are a whole host of exalted beings, but only one God that we worship? I don't think so. In this video, I explain why 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 can't be used to support the LDS notion of exaltation or a plurality of gods. That idea is totally foreign to the Bible, and Mormons really can't use this verse to try and prove that point.
God, on numerous occasions and in a number of different spots in the Bible, clearly indicates that there is no God besides Him. There only ever has been, and only ever WILL be, One Creator God.
Isaiah 43:10 - “…Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.”
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If you're curious to see a more systematic argument for why Christians reject the LDS doctrine of exaltation, check out this video:
> Can we become gods?: ruclips.net/video/HT_uslVTJUU/видео.html
Check out our video on that one too - ruclips.net/video/eS-R_Awmswg/видео.html
(Spoiler: Jesus wasn't saying we are all gods in embryo)
Paul says it right there in verse 4: "We KNOW that 'an idol is nothing...' and that 'There is no God but one.'"
The one God is the Father 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV but the Son is a God Hebrews 1:9 KJV
Ahh the wonders of context ☺️ thank you for explaining this!!
Awesome video guys
awesome video
whenever I hear the teaching about "exaltation" in the LDS, it always reminds me of the ancient Egyptian civilization, how a pharaoh/s would turn god/s themselves.
💯
Good points ✝️
Amen and God bless
1 Corinthians 15:1-4! Salvation is as easy as Believing!!! Jesus came, died, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day for you!!!! According to the Scriptures! And He is coming back for His believers! Soon! Any moment now! Jesus loves you so much that He died for you!
Ephesians 2:8-9
John 3:15-18
Romans 10:8-13
1 John 5:5
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
Not saved if you do not do good works
I would urge you to look up Michael Heiser's Divine Council Worldview. Even if you disagree, the DCW is fast becoming mainstream and it's now impossible to engage with this topic without offering it as an alternative.
Yes, I'm certainly aware of his view! I didn't bring it up in this video for 2 reasons:
1) Paul's point *in that text* is not to speak about a wayward Divine Council that now function as the pagan gods of the people...rather to say that "an idol has no real existence," and thus we can eat that meat. BECAUSE he doesn't speak about it in this text-I didn't feel the need to balloon the video to address that. Especially considering...
2) The Divine Council is still utterly incompatible with the LDS system. Men becoming gods both both prior to Heavenly Father and in the future is NOT what Heiser was talking about. Yes, God created the heavenly host. They have power, jurisdiction, are called the "gods" in the OT, etc. No problem with all that...but they are fundamentally CREATIONS, and He is the CREATOR-there's still an ontological gap between them that Mormonism eliminates.
I think it needs to be clear that it can only be the one or the other, either, the Bible is all we have, and then the LDS have little bit more difficulty to prove their point on this, or there is modern day revelation, and so it would shed some more light on the issue.. but that for itselfe, is another topic.. yet, it is still interesting that the Bible also has something to say about it, especially when you look at some of the oldes hebrew texts that are in existence... some things I get out of the original texts is that there actually is a possibility for multiple Gods..
I know, commonly Isiah gets quoted, meaning that there was no God formed before Yahweh, but, since Yaweh was not formed, it makes sens to look at the context, which talks to a people that "formed their goods out of hard materials"... So clearly this is who God is talking to here, and so it at least does not exclude the possibility of other Gods taking that alone.
But, going back to the ancient hebrew texts, you can see the following:
1. Elohim is plural, and each time you read "God" in the Bible, it actually means "Elohim".. Though this often times gets translated as GODS, the ultimante meaning of "Elohim" is not really known, just as we know nothing about the authors.
2. Elohim actually referes not just to GODS, but also to Yaweh, Chemosh,. Astarte, Angels and/or Mortals
3. Deuteronomy 32:8-12 is intersting in that regard, for "Lord" usually is "Yaweh", and in vers 32:12 we read:
"The Lord (Yaweh) alone let him, no foreign God (Elohim), was with him".. which indicates that Yaweh was one of many Elohim, one who was specifically assigned to the people of Israel, whilst other Elohim, like Astarte or Camosh, were assigned to other regions... so, no other "foreign" Gods actually referes to "other Elohim", and how can there be any other foreign Gods if Yaweh is the only one in existence?
Obviously I dont say this has to be the excact truth, because there often is room for interpretation, but it is an idea you can get by literally translating some of the oldest texts wihtout the glasses of theology... which at least opens the possibility the the LDS doctrine may not be as impossible as always claimed by certain christian groups..
In the end I also like to think that God creates our world with a purpose, and within our universe, we see that nothing can ever really be created or destroyed, nothing, all it does, is to change it form.. This is what science is saying, and its how God made things to be.. If we believe that science is actually correct on this one, that would mean that basically noone of us is created in that sense..
And that is also intersting when translating the first saying in the Genesis "In the Beginning", for that is originally from "Bereshit", which literally translated means "divide, choose, or form".. So, even the first verse within the Bible makes clear, that to create out of nothing actually ment that things where reorganized..
The Good news is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is coming out with a new doctrine very soon which opens God up to competition, by redefining God as “The God of Mormonism” with the caveat
“Or any being that is more Holy, More Righteous, More Powerful, and More Godly than the God we believe in”
This allows God to be worshipped as the Most High, and prevents idolatry
All theories remain in place, and monolatry too!
So this video is a mute point these days
So the verse actually teaches the opposite of LDS beliefs. Do they not teach that Heavenly Mother is a goddess? How can they know of her if there is only one God for us? And how can there be gods plural in the Book of Abraham?
Mormons worship One God
I’m afraid I don’t agree with your interpretation of 1 Cor. 8: 5-6. The verse, in fact, talks about “gods” “in heaven.” None of the gods he was referring to were “in heaven.” They were “in earth.” Beyond that, in Genesis 1:26, God says, “Let US (emphasis added) make man in OUR (emphasis added) image, in our likeness, …”
What does that mean? We should ask a prophet. Someone who has spoken with God “face to face,” as did Moses and Jacob and others. A prophet would know. But most of the Christian world does not claim to have a prophet. They claim that revelation ceased with the Bible.
If we expect to be with God for the rest of eternity, what is our ultimate objective? What is his ultimate objective for us? Isn’t it still to be in “his image” and “his likeness.” Or should I say “their likeness.” We may not ever be his equal, but I expect we will become more like him then than we are now.
So, fundamental logic problem with pretty much all the arguments made by this Channel is the extra-Biblical idea that you should only use the scriptures contained in what we currently refer to as the Bible (closed cannon, sola scriptura, etc.).
At the very least, the Bible as we know it today is a pattern of God providing revelation here and there according to the inquiries and needs and circumstances of people, and, when directed to groups of people, it appears to occur through His chosen representatives (prophets, apostles, etc.) Obviously God could have dropped a perfect manual in Adam and Eve's lap and called it a day.
Obviously Noah could have just referenced what was already revealed to Adam and called it a day. Surely Abraham could have just referenced what Noah had, right? Moses, give me a break, surely by the time Moses rolled around, plenty had been revealed, right? No need for further light and knowledge just because of a different situation, right?
At the very least, certainly nothing more would be needed after Isaiah, how could you possibly top him? But, certainly, nothing needed after Jesus the Christ, right, what could you possibly need more than the words of Christ as found in the Gospels? If there was ever a place to close the canon that would be it, right?
Fortunately, and gratefully, the closed canon approach is evidently is not God's method. Also, just logically speaking, it doesn't make sense for those of us with admittedly lower thoughts than God to try to limit what God, who has perfect knowledge and who designed a universe that even modern science recognizes to be at least 2 trillion galaxies each with several hundred billion stars for a total of 10 to the 82 atoms, can reveal, the manner He chooses to reveal, and the timing thereof.
So, yeah, you probably need to work that one out. And, for bonus, let me know when you get all 2 to 3 billion Christian adherents on the same page regarding every last detail in the Bible if you are going insist on closed cannon and sola scriptura. There are currently somewhere around 50,000 Christian denominations around the globe, but on a micro level, no two Christians interpret all the details in the Bible in the exact same way. So, in reality, there are 2 to 3 billion kinds of Christianity.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4! Salvation is as easy as Believing!!! Jesus came, died, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day for you!!!! According to the Scriptures! And He is coming back for His believers! Soon! Any moment now! Jesus loves you so much that He died for you!
Ephesians 2:8-9
John 3:15-18
Romans 10:8-13
1 John 5:5
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18