I like the idea of researching because it ties well with the themes of mistery, discovery and unknown that the series had since its inception back when it was just some story concept for a monthly drawing challenge. And I actually dont really see the point of having to battle everytime you encounter something new, and rather try to understand it.-sorry for possible gramatical errors
It is a rather curious niche of game, where the collectible monsters feel like tool partners more than pet partners. I wonder how this could synergize with the wonderful flexibility the “fluid evolution” concept provided for personal aesthetics? I think if combat is included, an interaction dichotomy between the primes and lesser enigmorphs would be best. Perhaps it only becomes relevant for further weakening the prime enigmorphs after making them vulnerable to capture by exploiting their mortal vices. Or it can only be used to aid in the capture of other lesser enigmorphs, maybe helping to discover hints about their vices?
I like the idea of less combat in a game like this but I definitely think in world like that you would might need to initiate combat if only to defend your self or subdue a enigmorph that's gone wild and started attacking people I could also see you having to take on a especially dangerous prime enigmorph that can't be reasoned with in sort of a raid boss fashion where you have to evade attacks while trying subdue it but not trying to destroy or kill it
I would say that the combat should NOT be the main focus of the game by any stretch, but it should definitely exist. Evolving monsters are definitely a good call for combat, and the concept (exploring abandoned and remote locations) would greatly benefit from some light danger. And wild, aggressive enigmorphs would lose their edge if they were all "solvable". I would definitely not use a system with the complexity of pokemon, but perhaps something like a side-scroller fighter (for example the new TMNT game), where the enigmorphs would fight fast and flashy, but for brief periods of time.
9:10 *”I HAVE BEEN GIVEN MANY NAMES OVER THE COUNTLESS CENTURIES I HAVE BEEN OBSERVING YOUR KIND. I DO NOT HAVE ANY PREFERENCE OF THEM.”* “So what about… John?” *”…I DID NOT HAVE ANY PREFERENCE UNTIL NOW.”* (so anyways flammarion is my new favourite character just because of this one moment okay bye)
Probably anticipated the level of reverence he likely got when he appeared to humans in other eras. Unfortunately, it appears these scientists are not known for their grandeur.
i like it, maybe on accasion needing to fight a big scary guy who doesnt wanna go away,l but mostly just helping for exploration, no fight just research. brain over brawn
Ok but we really need to discuss the member of the top secret monster research team who looked a god in the eye and said "John seems like a fitting name for you"
“If your going to give me a name from the bible at least give me one that’s sound’s important” growing up from a Christian background I find that hilarious
I haven’t read the Bible much (though, I really should fix that) so I don’t know if one of the Johns actually was important or if the creature was being sarcastic. Care to enlighten me?
@@ethanemerson4862I haven't read the bible but the name is John, like that's an ordinary ass name. Like most people know at least one John. Names like Methuselah sound more important even if they actually aren't
John can be important in two ways, There's John the Baptist, cousin of Jesus and the one who baptized him, awakening his legacy as the Savior and son of God. He was beheaded by Herod and his wife since he disproved their marriage but he certainly left a mark on New Testament history. He even led the first disciples of Jesus to him. Then there is John, one of those first disciples, brother of James, son of Zebedee and (hypothetically but believed by me) the revelator, who was the disciple Jesus loved (not romantically or lustfully you dirty birds), the one who witnessed him on the cross with the two Marys, and possibly the only disciple who died of old age and not matyred like the others. On the island of Patmos, he was the one who God wisked into the future and saw how the world will end in the 21 judgements; 7 seals 7 trumpets, and 7 bowls. So yeah, a Baptist of astral proportions and the one who seen the apocalypse... Sorry @alliecore225 but for an ordinary "butt" name, John is pretty badbutt in its own right. Quite fitting for an astral diety, (even of the REAL God can kick his butt unto two). And Ethan Emerson, I think you should read the Bible. I encourage it. Yes, it can be boring to some, but with the right prayers for discernment, and a love for spicy family betrayals, holy war, spiritual justice, end time prophecy, and words from the savior, Jesus Christ himself, I think it's worth the read, even if is a verse or two each day. Your welcome from your local Bible knowledge dropper- Nathan
Idk if it’s been mentioned but I think if the game’s main theme is going to be the pursuit of understanding, then it would be interesting to catch Enigmorphs through something like a “True Name”. From what I understand from Demonology, knowing a demon’s true name is supposed to give you power over them. Maybe through building enough understanding, maybe through sub-objectives specific to each Enigmorph, you’d be able to add one to your team. It would help give each Enigmorph a unique connection with the player without having to rely on something like battling.
Maybe by discovering their vices, since that seems like one of the themes going on, is a great idea. It can naturally develop into interesting, problem-solving orientated gameplay. Maybe you can find puzzles or secret places by exploring in town that give you the clues you need to catch them easier?
That's an interesting thing to consider! Currently, I imagined that the Enigmorphs themselves - at least the Primes - never used names. Names are a construct invented by humans to help them better understand the world around them. But perhaps giving a Prime Enigmorph a name does weaken them in some way, as having even that level of comprehension is still detracts from their power.
@@Subjectively Maybe they could even have two names, like Gandalf or anything in Eragon - a name given to them by people, and a true name that catches the essence of who or what they are.
Here's an idea what if you learned more and more about enigmorphs Over time and the more you learn about them the weaker they get, and once you get to a certain state of knowledge you can actually catch them Edit: thats a lot of people
Maybe based on two type of knowledge? One about the type of enigmorph in general and also about the individual enigmorph maybe it's likes dislikes etc... This is so that not all strong NPCs in the game are researchers. Maybe one boy who bonded with a specific enigmorph is really strong with it. Knowing textbook knowledge about the enigmorph would make you stronger against that specific species. And knowing more personally an enigmorph would make you stronger against that specific individual.
I love that idea! It would be cool if each encounter allows you to progress your sketch/entry in your journal, and once mostly rendered it would then allow you to capture or work with the enigmorph
Maybe the combat dilemma could be linked to the primes. Maybe at the start, you choose a 'patron'. Flamerion is the patron of understanding, for those who wish to document and explore, and leads the player down that path. Camazotz represents the path of power, and appeals to those who desire supreme power via eldritch means. Flamerion would assist/push towards nonviolent solutions, while Camazotz would assist/push towards violent solutions. It's the dichotomy of science: knowledge for the sake of knowledge vs knowledge for the sake of your personal ends. Just an idea.
This is so funny because one of my earliest concepts for this game was very much along these lines - two paths: Curiosity and fear, and the player could either to act aggressively out of fear, or move slowly and meticulously through the world and be motivated by curiosity. Khamazotz and Flammarion definitely still embody both these themes.
@@Subjectively This idea reminds me a lot of Eternal Darkness, where you choose a patron at the beginning for the antagonists. Maybe that could apply here, with an opening sequence playing as a young/inexperienced Big Bad Guy to choose the sort of power/motivation they have.
Please don't remove combat from the game @@Subjectively consider the actual gameplay loop stripped of the lore/flavor. Making enigmorphs into puzzle pieces rather than weapons- instead of both- rips the beating heart out of the monster collection game. A lot of the art caused by the verisimilitude vacuum left behind by the pokemon games does depict the use of pokemon in day to life sure, but also in war and conflict. For example, if we're secret agents we might do something like this ruclips.net/video/wU-TWKxDu2o/видео.html with our Enigmorphs.
@@Subjectively Neat idea! One concept I think would be interesting to adapt is how the player interacts with the Enigmorphs: as a trainer/master like most Mon series, or as a true equal. Maybe one allows the Enigmorph to grow more powerful and loyal but somehow gives the player less control (as in a higher chance of using a random ability instead of what you commanded, or instead of an inventory to pull the Enigmorph from you have a summon system that has the small chance of bringing another Enigmorph than the one you wanted), while the other works like the classical Mon system but the Enigmorph can't learn more advanced abilities or reach full corruption, and can turn on you if mistreated enough.
Once again suggesting that the Construct type be renamed as the Ferra type, so it sounds better alongside the other two types in the triangle. I love the designs here, I can’t decide which of the Primes I like more!
As Zylber said, I think something like Fabrica type would work better, since it means ‘craft’ or ‘device’ which is more general than iron specifically.
Here's an idea for how to create a team of enigmorphs. You would start with a set amount of "sanity" where the quantity and quality of your enigmorph would affect it. You could either have a lot of low level enigmorphs, one or two stronger enigmorphs, or a combination in between. If your team would extend beyond your "sanity", you would either not be able to bring that team as it would cap out to your max "sanity", or you would begin to lose control over the enigmorphs making your missions harder to perform. Essentially what is seen in Digimon, especially Cyber Sleuth.
In Mayan mythology, Camazotz was described as a giant, sapient bat who was the Mayan god of death, which makes sense with this reimagining’s typing. I like how this version of him seems less blatantly bat-like and much more alien, looking more akin to a dragon than a bat.
I agree. As though the only word they had in their mental inventory was 'bat' and the description stuck. So, as an HSS member, you try going through translations and descriptions and get... 'bat', for some reason. Then you finally SEE the blessed thing and go, '... oh.' :o
@@Agnes_Bramble absolutely! Like, if you dig all the way to their first concepts (weird and kinda clumsy tentacle being) to this gorgeously painted and unsettling "Flammarion", it's mind-blowing. Pure artistic growth, just like with the Mazah Region
I like the "drawing as catching". Maybe portray them more as "talismans". This would allow them to be stored, traded, etc. And easily slot into a journal.
Given that the organization is research focused. It would make sense to do sketches of the “flora and fauna” as it were like old-timey explorer organizations as well as keeping notes of observations so following the creatures and attempting to understand them in order to befriend them. Creating a pretty empathetic gameplay loop.
3 things came to mind for me with this video that I simply must comment. 1 - Flamerion basically being al "What? Everyone else has a name you gave them? But I dont???? I want a cool name, too! Gimme a name!" Is so fantastic and weirdly endearing to me. Like I love them so much. I also love how sassy and almost like, self-centered/arrogant the whole "If youre gonna give me a biblical name, at least make it a COOL and IMPORTANT sounding one" bit feels. They really feel like they just have this well developed concept and idea behind them, and a fleshed out characterization and motive. It also happens to be a characterization I love. 2 - I actually ADORE the capture mechanic working off of sketching them in a journal! Furthermore, I think the idea of you having to sketch them down because being able to depict and understand the enigmorphs tames them. That is SUCH A GOOD IDEA. Like, it fits this whole project super well!! For one, the whole point of the organization is to understand the enigmorphs. That is the point of the game. Secondly it makes a ton of sense that bizarre paranormal eldritch sorta beings would be less wild and dangerous if you understood them. Like part of what makes stuff like that so dangerous is that you don't understand it. So knowledge about them being a way to tame and befriend them is such a good idea and fits so well. It also fits thematically for the game in a meta sense, too! Like, it seems like - since you're leaning away from combat - that it's gonna be primarily a mystery and puzzle game. So the whole game is about figuring stuff out; being able to capture/tame the creatures by understanding them is PERFECT for a puzzle/mystery game! And finally it makes a good choice mechanically, too! Because then you can have it so that your journal can be added to the more you learn about the enigmorphs in your party! Just initially recording them in your journal lets you tame them, but as you interact with them more in the game, you can learn more about them. Writing that new knowledge in the journal could unlock new skills for your party members! It'd also make a dynamic where you had to decide if it was more worth investing time learning about a team member, or if it would be better to just tame a new enigmorph! 3 - I am in love with that little dragony lightbulb creature. Like 10/10 top tier design right there. I saw him taking form in the speedpaint footage and IMMEDIATELY wanted to befriend the little goober. He's just freaking friend shaped, man! Perfect little lad, must hug. It's already got me super hyped about the project. VERY exciting stuff. Also, first time an ad segment has ever been useful or interesting to me. Gonna make an Unvale account sometime soon! Thanks for telling us about it. EDIT - Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of there NOT being combat. It would REALLY help set it apart from other monster collectors, and help it be really unique. There are very few, if any, games in this genre that AREN'T about battling.
Here's a suggestion... As mentioned in 19:24 , The idea of enigmorphs causing 'mental burden' to someone could make it so that each player have a certain amount of 'mental capacity' which measures how many enigmorphs a person can "tame" or "understand" and the amount of mental capacity an enigmorph can take would depend on their classification and how much you understand that said enigmorph. For example, prime enigmorphs are so mysterious and ambiguous that they take most of the mental capacity. Maybe there could also be a way for players to expand their mental capacity or maybe the more a player understand an enigmorph it can reduce the amount of mental capacity that enigmoprh consumes. What this means is that it could open to certain gameplay possibilities where players must carefully choose which enigmorphs to take while trying to balance their mental capacity. This could also open for game balancing where players can't just take a bunch of strong enigmorphs (although I don't think this would be a problem since you mentioned that there wont be much combat). Or it could also mean that since prime enigmorphs are so 'godly', one's mental capacity isn't capable of 'taming' more than one at a time. This could also mean that each player may have a unique playthrough.
I love this world and the ideas that you have created, they are like a breath of fresh air for me. Still, i am very conflicted with the "No combat" situation. While, i understand the point, i think that having Enigmorph that work as "protectors" of the researchers would go well with the thematic. After all, these creatures don't look peaceful, and making sort of a "pact" or a "contract" where the researcher give something for the Enigmorph to protect him, would be interesting. I would also say, combat can be made in a lot of different ways, as conflict is a part of action, a part of making the player be "active". For example, a combat system where the researcher is front and center in the conflict. The researcher needs to "obtain" enough information about the Enigmorph to weaken it, but in order to do so, he uses the enigmorphs he has in his party to help him out, providing different things like, shields, chance for questions, stuns, discover if a fact is a lie or truth, etc, etc. Not searching to "defeat" him, but reduce his "influence" and the "truth" of the creature itself, and in turn, giving the researcher a chance to get what he wants. At the end of this situation, maybe the Enigmorph could have a chance of making a contract with you. I don't see combat as a "fight of flee", more like a mechanic that makes the player use his creatures actively in other situations. You could say that Contests competition on Pokemon are a type of combat, as every pokemon has it own stats and qualities to help you win them.
I feel like no combat could absolutely work. Make the goal discovering the enigmorph's vice(s), with stronger enigmorphs being more erratic and mysterious. Maybe rewarding exploration of the town to make catching/neutralising them easier by giving the player hidden clues to 'weaken' their opponents or boosting the effectiveness of their own enigmorphs? Alternatively, the 'combat' could be an interrogation to find the enigmorph's vice. Maybe you're doing certain actions to buy time for your interrogation, and with each 'question' or 'action' (could involve gameplay like how you dodge attacks in undertale) another clue is revealed. Maybe vices are swayed by conversation points, actions, items or certain types or enigmorph abilities, that capture them or neutralise them, with each enigmorph having a relatively unique group of methods that, once you've discovered them once, they give some kind of alert if you meet them again.
@@echopeak5953 In my opinion that's combat too. I refer to combat as "conflict", a battle of attrition to put it in some way. Not necessary by "fighting", but other actions that can lead to the depletion of the opponent forces and subsequently, being able to capture them
I love the idea of understanding them in order to weaken them bc once you start binding the unknown to the rules of knowing the unknown is there, it becomes less paradoxical. when you know that the impossible is happening in front of you and the unreal is interacting with the real world, logic as it was conceived before will no longer work. Instead, by acknowledging its existence and influence; by giving them names, recognizable imagery and known characteristics, you are conceptualizing them.
I love the tension of a Monster collectible game where the Combat isn't the focus. As you explain, I would see an argument to include "brute force" or "combat/battle" as an optional way to progress. On the spot, I'm thinking of a "Hostile aura" building up from doing so. Where it could become harder and harder to gather knowledge on your Enigmorphes or to collect more Enigmorphes, becoming quasi-impossible for you to become stronger. Then, having a secret reward or encounter for being a violence-focus player (a Prime Enigmorph could be related to this hostile path). A "Cunning aura" vs a "Hostile aura" could be used as a hidden stat. Some Enigmorphes could interact more or less depending on the score you have. i.e. Arborent could be increasingly aggressive (blocking his way with powers, up to starting combat) toward the player the higher the Hostile aura is. Or having Woewhirl flee instantly if the player has a high Hostile aura.
Omnipotent gods turned mortal and left powerful in a monster collection game? Shin megami tensei 5 would like a word lol. I kid, but that is a funny coincidence and I’m super excited for this.
Love the character Bonnie has in even this little snippet, I feel like they just create nascent enigmorphs to either mess with people or study their reactions
Love the character design on Bonnie’s new human form-the hair matching the swoopy bit of their enigmorph form, covering one eye to match the one eye of the other form, and making a triangular silhouette to match the other form’s head. Super cool looking human while still clear in their connection to their enigmorph appearance.
Oh my god, Subjectively. You have somehow tapped into everything that I like in fiction. Fantastical creatures, original style, LORE. I am on the edge of my seat. Thank you for making this world!
The sketching idea reminds me of a concept I had for a game awhile back, where all enemies first appeared as horrible monsters, but as you studied them and learned about them, they 'delusion' of horror was replaced with understanding of knowledge. Sort of like how a shark was originally thought to be a creature known as a Sea Dog. Maybe you could play with something like that? Like the creatures start out as unknowable horrors, their mere presence and direct viewing of the player can cause harm and paranoia. But if you take time to learn and study them the horror aspect decreases and you are left with something you understand and can 'speak to' in a sense, like an animal trainer. The down side to this, would be understanding how to approach research and how much of it, because if players are okay with spending a great deal time of time to acquire their creatures, then having a set level of knowledge you must acquire to understand for them works. The problem with removing the combat element was that, the combat element in poke worked two fold, as a means of defeating your enemies, but also a quick method to acquire more monsters. It fed back into itself.Allowing you to learn the games core mechanics so you could be better at battles and so you could continue to acquire more monsters. But if the main element is research, then 'capturing' the creatures needs to be tied to. Meaning ti has to be something you can do again and again, not to mention something you'd want to do again and again. Which becomes harder depending on how many creatures you intended to capture, because the more work you have to do, the work tedious it could become.
You know it would be possibly interesting with the combat problem just have it be a choice, players when faced with an obstacle that may require confronting other enigmorphs could choose an alternative route instead and choose to go and negotiate depending on if enigmophs are intelligent enough and could even depend on the enigmorph as some may require combat for them to join you and such but it could be the path to solve and also create different paths the player can go through
Ik you said you didn’t want to make a combat system, but I thought that it would be really fitting that in the canon, a member of the club archives their knowledge to trading cards, and the tcg exists in game within the club, maybe as a fun endgame mechanic or a goofy one-off quest. I just feel like the cards would fit the knowledge aspect more, while fitting the “drawing into life” concept a bit more.
Having the Enigmorphs helping you evolve in your environment reminds me of the Monster Sanctuary game on Steam. Great game. And the idea of taming an Enigmorph by sketching them reminds me of Haruhiko's power in Myriad Colors Phantom World. If properly drawn, he could seal them in his sketchbook. Eventually, he'd drew some originals himself and summons them for battle.
I love the snippet about knowing the enigmorphs more to catch them! Maybe a number of "facts" are available and can be found out in different ways and in different parts of the world. The crazier the enigmorph, the more difficult it is to get information snippets on them. So to catch a more powerful enigmoprh, you might need to visit and master the challenges in multiple locations, for which you can use the help and abilities of your weaker enigmorphs. If you've discovered 80% (arbitrary number) of facts about an enigmorph, no matter which ones, you know enough to sketch them into your "dex" and summon them to catch them. Each enigmorph becomes an investement to work towards. The more that each snippet of knowledge interests the player, the more they might want to follow that thread, uncover more and more and eventually be able to catch the creature! This could be an incredibly satisfying result to something you've invested so much time and effort in. It would also make each playthrough completely different. Players might stumble upon different bits of enigmorph lore and depending on what catches their interest, they might go on different adventures and see different enigmorphs. Less "gotta catch 'em all" and more "follow the threads and catch the cool one".
If I may add, perhaps rather then an Fauna-Flora-Construct triangle, perhaps blend Fauna and Flora in together and have a 3rd one based on Prime Enigmorphs making Nascents from fictional concepts from human psyche or their own?
@@Subjectively I don’t think so, since Fictional Concepts can give you the freedom to make Non-Prime Enigmorphs based off of famous mythological and folkloric figures, as well as characters from famous books too
A cool concept could be that each new form your Enigmorph evolves into comes from learning a new layer to their nature, like how their corruption came to be.
I almost wonder if instead of "capturing" them you could befriend them. Like by learning about the creature their final form unfogs and you can actually perceive them, and in doing so and taking down their form, they respect you and you can befriend them. Or they reveal their form to you more as that bond grows. I dunno I just like the idea that they are willingly working with you because you took the time to invest in and understand them.
And what you said around 18:18, about drawing enigmorphs, is an interesting ideia because it can serve 2 purposes in the game: - The sketch of an enigmorph is then added to a "pokedex", thust serving the purpose of "needing to understand the cretature in order to tame it" and also serves the in-game purpose of adding entries the "pokedex". It's a smooth bridge between the 2. - Allowing players to ONLY be able catch enigmorphs through understanding of its nature is well represented via drawing them in a sketch. Afterall, being able to draw something is good example to show understanding of a given topic. Uh, if you end up liking my ideia of "The primal god of stars", then maybe there could be written a fun twist in the story: the players believing they need a special set of pens and books to be able to record enigmorphs BUT, if they come from human imagination and imposed on the world by the God of Stars to balance lack of entropy in the universe, then humans just have to BELIEVE they can catch enigmorphs via sketching. The power of catching wasnt in a special book or pen, but unside human minds all this time.
If there was ever a game where first draft on some things being just COMPLETELY wrong, especially regarding the enigmorphs themselves, this is the one. You're just learning the truth as you keep digging.
Game direction? Maybe something like Golden Sun. Top down with emphasis on puzzles and leaping over ledges. I wouldn't rule out combat. Maybe get rid of the reliance on monster levels. Many places will be crawling with agressive mons. A focus on tactics and preserving health over mowing through opposition. Gameplay similar to how you interact with the monsters in undertale. You could talk them out of combat use items to get them to leave. Items to make them sleep. Some combat is unavailable but levels are unnecessary. Some areas may need items or passwords or hints on hidden passages. A heavy emphasis on getting information and communicating with people and mons alike. Just my thoughts.
If you're still up for suggestions, enigmorphs could be "caught" based on research about them, as your understanding over them makes a connection between both, this genuine understanding being really desired by most. Research could happen during exploration, like walking through town and you see a Woewhorl between normal crows. The weaker Enigmorphs needing less research, while Apex level ones would not only need a lot, but also finding them in tight time windows.
I love how he was trying to be so mysterious and the agent just was like” seriously? Be more unique, don’t just take from the Bible…. Shaking my head.. “
I think it would be really cool for there to be a recurring enemy enigmorph, something like an anti-enigmorph that purposefully target other enigmorph to grow stronger and stronger until it's strong enough to kill god
I can see this game going in a modern-Persona-esque direction where it goes back and forth between day-to-day life and dungeon crawling with both sides effecting each-other in their gameplay and narrative.
maybe the thing to capture them can be some kind of prime magic book, once singular and magical, but with science and tecnology, humans can reproduce this book to all members who needs to capture enigmorphs
I love the idea. Reminds me of SCP or Control's "Federal Bureau of Control". Would be fun to see it go into a bit darker themes. Like The call of Cthulhu. Something like the primes being incomprehensible and literally dangerous to behold for example.
encounters with the enigmorphs can produce an opportunity to drop a body part. these parts can be contribute to a single anatomical study. Anatomy studies then make up the whole. The whole is bound to a book that can neither be recreated nor destroyed, but can always grow more pages and pages always are blank to anyone but the owner. This makes each player’s book “unique” (wands in Harry Potter) Protagonist only comes to know this secret order of enigmacon (the book) holders by chance; you have to own a book first to even know this society exists. The books have a will of their own and reveal themselves under “fated” circumstances, otherwise they look like regular books. Love this project. Can’t wait to see more.
I think a cool idea for the game would be have 2 or 3 endings depending on if you’ve played good, evil or neutral. Maybe depending on what type of enigmorphs you have on your team could give you the option for good or evil actions depending on their nature. So I you play with a full evil team or full good team and depending on how you use these actions then you get a new ending to the game
Maybe the core combat of this game should be based on understanding creators. Discovering their types and powers is necessary to bring them. That way the curiosity aspect of the setting and theme can be worked into the combat. Also, it will inherently make rarer/new endomorphs more powerful because you will not understand at first but everything becomes equally strong once you figure them out. If you are a ttrpg fan it could almost be like Monster of the Week's mechanic of monsters only being able to be vanquished in a specific way that it is a mystery to find out. It could also maybe work like sparing in Undertail where a specific monster needs certain actions done in the right order to be spared. With you figuring this out using context clues and their reactions. Almost like a puzzle game.
I think enigmorphs are concepts, definitions, and characteristics brought into the physical world, like people from the early ages describing animals they haven't seen, like "a creature with the body of a horse the neck and head of a snake with horns" but it's just a giraffe but be cause it's described that way it becomes like that so the enigmorphs and the giraffe exist at the same time
The act of understanding an enigmorph would likely restrain them. The name they bare would be a good hint. The less you know about them they become more free and abstract! Of course you could also have the act of learning take a toll on your character, and various means of minimizing/removing that damage could be introduced. Once an enigmorph is understood it can be depicted. Any of this sound interesting?
If you're looking for inspiration on what a less combat focused monster collector could look like, I recommend taking a look at the Yo-Kai Watch series. Yes, there is combat in the game, but the player acts more like a coach rather than a trainer, swapping them around on the fly, giving each Yo-Kai items, and occasionally activating a super move (which by the way is a good reference for how you could incorporate Enigmorph combat abilities), The main reason I bring this series up, however, it's conflicts and story progression. In the first game, lots of it is set up like a monster-of-the-week slice-of-life anime where there's a problem in the world caused by the Yo-Kai, and the main character and his Yo-Kai have to try to fix it. I figure that could be an interesting way to take the game. Just give it a darker tone, add some puzzle solving, maybe even a full-on mystery element, and I think you could have something special.
The enigmorph type between Spectral and Astral would be very neat if the actual differences between them is not necessarily from the supernatural afterlife and the cosmic expanse beyond, but the aspects of the material and immaterial universe. That would be pretty neat, I think! Keep up the good work ^-^
I have two suggestions. Firstly: PLEASE give fungi their own typing, like flora and fauna-- they even have their own similar scientific name, which is funga-- Fungi are just as important and influential to the world at large as animals and plants are, and fungi are also massively diverse in appearances (it's not just mushrooms! molds, shelf fungi aka polypores, mildews, yeasts, and more!) and also also, if they were included as a sub-type... they shouldn't be under flora. Fungi are actually more closely related to animals than they are to plants! And there are "planty" animals like corals and sea anenomes too, but you wouldnt classify those as plants, would you? Second is for a third group of the primes. I love cosmic and spectral, but i think you could add another called "abstract" or "imaginary" or "conceptual" that is about embodying entire abstract concepts. Like one could just be... based on the concept of falling, or the concept of competition.
Love the concept art of the researchers exploring with their enigmorphs! It really fleshes out the interesting ideas and themes that make this game unique.
I think that instead of being a 2D point and click adventure game with a pokemon style battle system, I think It would be fun for it to be a 3D platformer with more "breath of the wild" style combat. Where you could take control of the Enigmorphs to fight other Enigmorphs, or corrupted humans! Although that might be too much to ask for a project like this.
I think the Enignomicon ( the pokedex) should have a layout like the dragonology books I feel in love with when I was a kid. Imagine highlighting a little envelope attached to the page and its a hand written note from the last owner. Or procuring a uv flashlight to reveal secrets on the pages. Or the little pouches with bits made from or spawned by the presence of the enigmorph right on the page interactible.
Firsth of all, I love the fact you got rid of combat. So many monster-catching games have it, so one in which you don't make them fight is not only refreshing, but I think it also helps the immersion and attatchment to the monsters. If they're used only for battle, they start to seem more like a weapon then a friend, so you often end up discarding the monster you had before in favour of a new, stronger one. But here, you don't fight with them, instead you learn with and about them, thus making you connect with them more than combat ever could. And they might seem scary at firsth, but the more you learn about them and understand them, the less scary they are (this is of course connected to the fear of the unknown). I like the idea that these creatures are helping you not because they have to, but because they want to, which is more similar to friendship, which I think should really be more emphasized in the monster collecting game, specifficaly because you're not collecting items that have to be used, you're collecting living beings and it's your responsibility care for them. In short, I like tgis direction and really am looking forward to seeing how the relationship between the player and the enigmorphs they catch develops. PS. For player character designs, it feels kinda obvious that, unlike pokemon protagonists, they should be grown up people. And, just throwing ideas out there, they can have different backgrounds and thus, different starting abillities and enigmorph type preferences. Maybe they can change later on throught the journey and thus, players can have the ability to customize their appearance a bit. Anyways, It would be interesting to see what kinds of people would join the Hunter's hope club and why. That's all from me, I look forward to seeing more!
Bonding an enigmorph by sketching is such a cool, and thematic for this channel, idea! Maybe in addition to sketching and understanding you can also have the enigmorph “mark” the pact like a paw-print type deal. Would be a nice touch to individualise the pact of the specific enigmorph to the player and adds that extra story element of getting to a certain degree of acquaintance with the enigmorph so that they will affirm your bond - Also could be used to explain why illustrating & understanding the prime enigmorph does not bind them (though I doubt they’ve been anywhere close to being understood!)
Love your presentation as always, Jack! That first half was super fun and engaging, really pulling me into the world, and I loved being able to understand the nitty gritty with you addressing us in a more grounded way! I've been toiling away at my own monster tamer as well and I resonate a lot with your approach to leaving combat behind (to whatever degree that might be as you continue development). I think leaning into the mental aspect and fulfilling the player and player character's curiosity by investigating the Enigmorph's really push this into it's own gamefeel and would be really refreshing in the monster tamer space! Cannot wait to see what you continue to cook up; keep it up Jack!
Hell yeah. This might come off weird, but I was never into your pokemon series. I'm super stoked for the game and every piece of content you drop while working on it. The vibe is super cool and I love that you're attempting a more serious approach to the monster collection genre.
I think in order for the world to feel dangerous you need to have combat in one form or the other. However I think a note from the Fear and Hunger games can be taken here. And that combat should be an incredibly resource intensive. And while exploring you're options to restore resources like health (both player and enigmorph), mana (for enigmorphs to use their attacks and for you to possibly control them), and items/consumables (which will be invaluable). This would discourage combat and make combat scary. It would also add tension to exploration, because you knwo the next fight might wipe out your progress. It would also give you a reason to go on various side quests in order to get access to new vendors with useful items. (you can also experiment with the idea that consumables are regained after an exploration. When it comes to acquiring an enigmorph I think a side quest to collect them would be interesting. In the hub area there could be a sign board with spotted enigmorphs with a silluette and a little bit of information. The player would go to said location and do a short quest gaining knowledge on them. Once you have enough knowledge you can confront them and catch them.
i feel like the capture mechanic could be something in the style of the safari zone's "get this animal to trust you through a bunch of actions" but with different actions for each monster like in undertale and the megami tensei series and sketching or observing the monsters in their natural habitat could raise an analysis level that raises chances of capture the more intelligent monsters could even work like smt demons, where you need to flatter them and give them stuff for them to agree to work with you
I will leave here my opinion about the combat question. So, i agree, based on the lore you give in the two videos the game dont need to be centralized on the battle system, but, combat can be one of the obstacles the player have to perpass. What i'm trying to say is, the combat can be one more possible puzzle, and can be resolved with some types of enygmates (sorry if i wrote wrong), i think that is good to make a variability to the uses of this creatures (also i'm not a native english speaker, so forgive possible errors in the text).
i think the idea of having to catch the Enigmorphs be to sketch them is a really cool idea- and perhaps instead of having the Enigmorphs you have attack them, they can help you with identifying the Enigmorph in front of you! Perhaps you need to identify three/five main points of the Enigmorph, and you have a window to do so. Each trait indentified restarts the timer, and you can use the traits that your Enigmorphs have to help you. For example, lets say you DO bring a fire Enigmorph down into a watery area, and by using its "shine" ability, it causes the Enigmorph you are trying to catch to flower and reveal another part of itself that otherwise wouldve been hidden. If you don't identify all the traits needed to catch it and sketch it well, you cant comprehend and understand the Enigmorph, so it disappears/flees. However, thats not to say that the encounter was worthless! afterall, you still learned something. so maybe when/if you encounter it again, you already have one or two traits identified, you just need the last puzzle piece
Woah lotta long comments full of ideas, glad to see others are just as excited by this premise as I am. I'll throw my two cents in cause i didn't see anyone else say it yet: a game with themes of exploration and uncovering hidden truths, paired with a premise of collecting stuff, and low/no combat? Sounds like a mystery point and click puzzle game to me.
If I ever encountered Flamarion(?) IRL I would be picking their brain for HOURS. And then promptly forget half of everything they told me the next day. LMAO I do appreciate that you're moving away from using your Enigmorphs to battle, that will help a lot to emphasize that a Nascent Enigmorph isn't "weaker" than its Harbinger or Apex counterparts. Since it's not going to be a combat-focused game, though, I'll throw some ideas in the mix for what progression would look like, although I think some kind of puzzle or logic game would be the best option: - For delving into haunted mansions or other liminal spaces, you could put emphasis on dialogue by talking with locals and putting an image/profile of the Enigmorph the player is investigating together based on their testimonies, and then following up with a hide-and-seek game in the locale in question, with your Enigmorphs helping you to find it before it can escape. - For delving into ancient temples or ruins, you could follow a similar formula with the liminal spaces, but include deciphering pictograms or writings on the walls of the locales to glean more information on the Enigmorphs haunting them. - For hostile Enigmorph encounters, you could go the Undertale route and have the player avoid attacks while using what knowledge they've gleaned prior to the encounter to deescalate the situation, or attempt to find its mortal vice and subdue it. I could also imagine using all of these ideas in conjunction with each other to make a comprehensive progression system. Incorporating some other ideas I've seen, you could have the player progress on a commissionary basis, where they are hired to take piecemeal investigations on some well-documented Enigmorphs so they can build up their skills in order to tackle the lesser-known threats.
Small idea for the capturing stuff. Because u said that Enigmorphs comes from riftss from reality and other universes u could make that you catch them using a special ink wich rip the reality and close the Enigmorph in a book page. So if an Enigmorph become unalived the ink take a black colour and melt. This could bring to unstable ink or unstable Enigmorph harder to caught or even enigmorph which after being captured want to take revenge on their owneer and could try to beat them up. It's just an idea, hope u like it,I love you're work!!
Flamereon is SO COOL! The idea of a “catchable creature” discussing what it should be called in their records is suuuuuch a cool idea! That, and it noticing the Bible reference is a very cool way to illustrate just how much it truly understands. It seems like the name it might have been searching for in the Bible was right there, God. 😅
With the whole saying of “knowledge is power” maybe that is how sketching them or logging them in your notebook works. They respect power; and knowledge is power. You know of them, and now they, know of you.
The concept of catching them with books is very interesting, maybe you can name Grimoire as Pokemdex. To be honest, I was actually waiting for the battle concept, thinking about how the type advantage would be applied, only then did I think about giving suggestions for using a capture tool in the form of a gun. Because the theme really reminds me of the Victorian era or Witchcraft, I thought the catching tool would be good if it was in the form of an Electric Gun, like a Ghostbuster when catching ghosts. Oh, oh, or you could maybe make the Grimoire look more modern for its capturing method. For example, a book has a Cable connected to a Wand. then the explorer will shoot electricity from the Wand and slowly the Enigmorph will be sucked in and draw in the Grimoire. What players do is simply buy lots of paper to fill the Grimoire as a substitute for Pokeballs. The summoning method is also as simple as opening a book and calling out the name of the monster in the book.
I _love_ the changes being proposed to the gameplay! Drawing the creature to capture it sounds really fascinating; having to improve your drawing skills could allow the player to catch more complex-looking creatures as a sort of "level up" type system, too. For example, most people could draw a relatively simple bunny if they put their mind to it, but horses are notoriously harder to draw.
I think the game The Unavowed could be a great inspiration for how to handle this mystery. It's also an urban fantasy mystery game, and whilst it's point and click it's puzzles are a lot simpler than the point and clicks of old. Importantly you have 4 companions with different skills, powers, and backstories who can solve similar problems but in unique ways. They can also work together, like a cop being able to find the name of a dead body which a medium uses to calm their ghost and talk to them. I think each evolution line of Enigmorphs having unique ways to solve problems would be really cool.
Admittedly something about the idea of understanding being able to tame them reminds me of this random SCP basically foundation staff would randomly drop dead in the dark once every 3 months and nobody could understand why. Then one researcher as a way to relieve his fear drew this phenomenon as an anime girl giving it the name yukiko and giving it a backstory about being raised as part of a clan of assassins somehow once this became known the phenomenon stopped entirely, because as it turns out this phenomenon was created from the foundation staffs fear, so giving it a name and a face in a way helped alleviate that fear.
14:56 Some gang mechanic ideas There can be three roots, potentially 🤷♂️ Where do you stay with the hunters and understanding Or become a freelance and help the people and the an morph to live equally Or become a ruthless killer
Another way you could catch enigmorphs is to have the player have a "starter enigmorph" - that's your ticket into the Hunter's Hope. And then that 1st enigmorph would help you convince other enigmorphs to join your team. The higher level the enigmorph is and the more knowledgeable you are, the more likely you are to succeed in befriending other monsters. Kind of like how Hiccup uses his knowledge and Toothless' influence to befriend other dragons. And maybe the typing could influence things too - a Flora enigmorph would be less receptive to a Fire enigmorph, for exemple.
So, from what im gathering, you're making a monster collecting... immersive sim? I have to say, i wasn't expecting that, but I'm positively captivated by the idea. I look forward to this project's future! Its sure to be interesting at the least!
In my opinion, I think Combat should be a part of the game in some way shape or form. I'm not saying that it needs to be the main thing (I think your concept Is really interesting) but I think it would be wise to keep it in. Maybe a mechanic where you need to understand the thing, you're fighting to fight against it. Like say you're trying to go up against a gang leader, you would need to gather information about him to go up against him. P.S: Puzzel + JRPG = Good Game
I think the main reason would simply be the vibe. Having these cool Late-17th century hunter types with huge swords and axes that track down eldritch creatures and learn about them alongside stuffy professor types is the main idea the art gives me.
I know this comment may be buried (and it's not impossible somebody else said this) but a bit of my thoughts on the subject: What if, as a sort of concept to explain why drawing an enigmorph would tame them, the enigmorphs themselves are just as clueless as the humans? *They* don't even know what they are, how could they if most of them are just mutated hunks of metal or plants or normally-not-too-introspective animals? And this acts as a sort of source for their aggravation. To be shown a mirror, to be given a name (something I saw someone else saying as an idea), a rendition of what and who they are in the eyes of another, it calms them and allows the avenue of forming a partnership, as a sort of thanks for clearing up their own understandings, or gives them enough definition in this "imagination makes it a little true" world where they don't know what to think of themselves, not-enough in the eyes of the world to be given a solid form? Could be that enigmorphs require multiple forms of being told what they are; some don't have eyes so can't look at a paper; may need to hear it from an already tamed enigmorph, etcetera.
I like the idea of this monster collecting game also being a puzzler. That whole concept of Enigmorphs having vices made me think of having to do puzzles to catch each of your new team mates and then the idea that they’ll help further your investigations is killer awesome too. Puzzles totally fit the whole human intellect and discovery theme. Maybe the capture method of drawing them down could contain a journal entry about what the Enigmorph’s vice is? Like you can draw it when you first see it, but the journal entry is only complete and the Enigmorph captures when you know it’s vice. (Sorry if I’m going off on one topic too much, but vices of Enigmorphs were mentioned and I thought it was really compelling.)
So maybe a gameplay loop like Pikmin could work? They have different types that aid in traversal. And while Pikmin uses number of pikmin following you as a power scaling tool, Enigmorphs could use their stages as keys to unlock gates with content. Since Enigmorphs can go back and forth between stages that also opens a lot of opportunities where you can be too weak, but also too strong. Gameplay could be placing Enigmorphs in various interaction locations exploring them, placing them elsewhere and figure out who needs to be where to trigger the right events in the right order. In that way triggering events in the environment really highlights the exploring/seeking knowlegde aspect of the game. And anigmorphs being the key to the event happening suits the exploring their potential/discovering what these creatures are and hown they work. A nice little feedback loop.
Ide for a way of "catching" the Enigmorphs: You has to show the enigmorph the drawing and they have to recognize the drawing in the book as them. For the game part: Having a puzzle game where you don't always has the tools for can be very frustrating. Making it so that you are meant to repeat the "puzzles" them and learn them, would help with that. So I would recommend a event system. For example something weird is happening at a graveyard, So the game rolls a a few random events that is related to the enigmorph that is there or the setting (graveyard). The enigmorph that is there is random but based on the setting. Having "puzzles" be solvable in several ways and some of the be chance based and some not, making the player choosing risk. The chances and what options the player has is depending on what Enigmorphs they have with them. For example they need to find something in the dark, they have a higher chance to find it depending how good the Enigmorphs can create light. If they are very good it a guaranteed success if they can't it a low chance of success. To give a sense of progression having a home base that you upgrades/modifies to decorate, fit you play style or improve your abilities. Would be fun.
Also, I adore the idea of the sketchbook and "catching" enigmorphs by understanding them. Perhaps it requires several encounters with a specific "species" in different contexts to fully build up the sketchbooks page. Watching how they interact with the world, and with different enigmorphs, fills in progress on the page until it's fully filled in and you can use that information to create a gift or "trap" thats unique to each species. Perhaps even each "evolutionary line" of enigmorphs could be represented by a trinket you craft upon fully understanding each one, which then draws the enigmorph to you. For example, a unique piece of jewellery thats irresistable to Woewhorls, a small pot of fertiliser made of Spooky Materials™️ for Borabark, and a broken pocketwatch that ticks backwards for Coggle? Something that represents your greater understanding of their wants, needs, and nature and the time youve put in to really know them.
Hmm I totally understand the no combat approach, but I do think there's a way to make it work within the larger themes of the game. (it's been awhile since I've seen the last enigmorphs video so forgive me if I'm repeating bits of already established lore or ideas) But maybe the presence of the primal god enigmorphs are having a negative effect on all enigmorphs throughout the world, corrupting them like a virus as you said. These corrupted enigmorphs are naturally aggressive and violent, and you use your enigmorphs to combat these corrupted versions of their peers to snap them out of this state and return them to their natural state. Once you've sort of broken that spell on them, perhaps the visual tell that they're corrupted (a veil of darkness, evil eyes, tendrils, something along those lines) is lifted, and your agent can get a clear picture and sketch them in their book, making them available to be caught. I definitely love the idea of your team giving you aid in the overworld as you explore, that's something I've always wanted the Pokemon games to do. HMs were the right idea but they never evolved in a satisfying way imo. But I do think this mechanic would be better if also accompanied by some kind of combat. Plus this way, your themes aren't really about getting stronger, it's about being more knowledgeable and prepared and as your relationship and understanding of enigmorphs grow, so too does your team and your ability to document (catch) new enigmorphs.
Lack of combat sounds bad at first blush, but you have the chance to make something really unique in the genre if your other systems are dynamic enough that we don't miss it. I definitely agree that combat against these creatures doesn't feel quite right, so here's hoping you can think of a satisfying game loop that makes Enigmorphs feel like more than just a visual novel/adventure game. But even if it were just that, the setting seems strong enough to carry it far!
I really enjoy the concept and design you made for flamerion. I love how the further up you go it becomes more and more asymmetrical like the more you try to understand it the more confusing it becomes. And, while it does have a humanoid form, it lacks a traditional face. This makes it interesting to converse with since it can speak any language fluently but would still be difficult to "read". Well done sir.
First of all omg I'm so incredibly excited for this all, secondly how you describe the way you'd interact with Enigmorphs through day-to-day tasks honestly made me think of games such as Stardew Valley, only with researching creatures instead of maintaining a farm
I do think you should still have Combat especially for Apex Encounters. Probably have Nascents have the most non-combat utility, Harbingers a good mix, and Apex mostly Combat abilities. I'm thinking for the main game play loop a mix of Spectrobes and Legend of Zelda if that makes sense. A highly puzzle focused game where it is much more important to know your opponent than to brute force Encounters. And have the Combat similar to spectrobes where you give orders to your team while avoiding attacks yourself and providing a more support role. Maybe toggle between controlling your character and your active party member
SO COOL!!! I love the focus on knowledge and understanding, there's so many angles you can take that! I also love the way you're thinking with combat not being a thing, it displays that you're really honing in on the core experience you want the player to have in the game and are being concious that everything you design supports or conflicts with that experience. For some, getting rid of combat especially in a monster collection game is unthinkable, so you strongly consitering doing so shows that you aren't afraid to sacrifice ideas we might hold sacred if it would serve the kind of game and experience you're trying to make. Well done! With that mindset, I'm confident that you and whoever you work with will be able to make a well designed game!! I also like how you aren't thinking about it in black and white, recognizing that perhaps combat could exist as just another type of obstacle or puzzle to solve rather than a core system of the game. It could absolutely serve to make the world feel more dangerous and create interesting problems to navigate, and at the same time it should be carefully consitered as to not take away focus from the core experience you're trying to make.
This is incredible! I'm so pumped to see this world develop and evolve, using eldritch horrors as a creature collection game is so inspired. As of now, I only have one critique as a designer. The emblems for the enigmorph types are gorgeous! But if they're for a game, they should be simplified slightly. Perhaps even a simplified alternate version will suffice! However, if the emblems are intended to aid in categorization, they should not only translate well across different media and sizes but also be recognizable at a glance. All of the forms are already stunning; they just need some simplification. Overall, I can't wait to see more content!!
As an additional idea for capturing enimorphs , as well as drawing the enimorph to capture it, you have to draw the enimorph using a special ink that is basically enimorph blood. Once drawn the enimorph is sucked in the note book. When wanting to release an enimorph the owner of the note book must rip off the page we’re the enimorph is on allowing the enimorph break free from the paper, leaving the page it was once on blank. But when returning an enimorph that you have captured you must simply bring forth the paper that the enimorph was on and the enimorph will be sucked back in the page as well as the page returning back it its rightful place in the note book.
If this ends up as a game you can play and collect the enigmorphs I would love to see them travel with the player if they are able to be befriended (no matter how scary they are lol) it would also be interresting if by befriending and having them with you the player is able to learn more and more about them^^ the art is wonderful keep up the good work!!
just make the combat against non humans, create a prime who is just the worst, like the incarnation of evil, or the origin of it, and make them create some sort of corruption that either makes purely evil creatures, or a much cooler idea, they corrupt some enigmorphs (like the shadow pokemon form XD gale of darkness) and you need to subdue them by using your enigmorphs so you can cure them.
Idea, instead of having to help the HHC, I think it would be neat if you could choose between the HHC and helping the Primes in whatever their goal is.
I'm sure I've said this before. But I need to restate this. Not only is Jack amazing at his art, but I love his voice acting as well. You can always tell it's his voice but he always adapts his tonality and pronunciation to fit the aesthetic of the video. Like his pirate sounding tone and slang terminology for Argyle for Mermay. Kudos my guy, the voice acting goes hard and I love how you don't even train professionally for it. Would love to see this side of you grow through your videos.
I love the sketch in your journal idea. I can picture how when you learn something new about an enigmorph the sketch becomes cleaner and new details are added and maybe when you know enough to tame it the sketch is colored.
What do you guys think - should a game like this have combat, or would it be better without?
YES!!! I wanna fight these things so bad! Although it is your project ad you know what's best
I like the idea of researching because it ties well with the themes of mistery, discovery and unknown that the series had since its inception back when it was just some story concept for a monthly drawing challenge. And I actually dont really see the point of having to battle everytime you encounter something new, and rather try to understand it.-sorry for possible gramatical errors
It is a rather curious niche of game, where the collectible monsters feel like tool partners more than pet partners.
I wonder how this could synergize with the wonderful flexibility the “fluid evolution” concept provided for personal aesthetics?
I think if combat is included, an interaction dichotomy between the primes and lesser enigmorphs would be best. Perhaps it only becomes relevant for further weakening the prime enigmorphs after making them vulnerable to capture by exploiting their mortal vices. Or it can only be used to aid in the capture of other lesser enigmorphs, maybe helping to discover hints about their vices?
I like the idea of less combat in a game like this but I definitely think in world like that you would might need to initiate combat if only to defend your self or subdue a enigmorph that's gone wild and started attacking people I could also see you having to take on a especially dangerous prime enigmorph that can't be reasoned with in sort of a raid boss fashion where you have to evade attacks while trying subdue it but not trying to destroy or kill it
I would say that the combat should NOT be the main focus of the game by any stretch, but it should definitely exist. Evolving monsters are definitely a good call for combat, and the concept (exploring abandoned and remote locations) would greatly benefit from some light danger. And wild, aggressive enigmorphs would lose their edge if they were all "solvable".
I would definitely not use a system with the complexity of pokemon, but perhaps something like a side-scroller fighter (for example the new TMNT game), where the enigmorphs would fight fast and flashy, but for brief periods of time.
9:10
*”I HAVE BEEN GIVEN MANY NAMES OVER THE COUNTLESS CENTURIES I HAVE BEEN OBSERVING YOUR KIND. I DO NOT HAVE ANY PREFERENCE OF THEM.”*
“So what about… John?”
*”…I DID NOT HAVE ANY PREFERENCE UNTIL NOW.”*
(so anyways flammarion is my new favourite character just because of this one moment okay bye)
That is a great moment
I think Flammarion’s weakness is boring names
"At least one that's important "
Homeslice he was the author of like half the New testament what are you on about lol
@@derpfluidvariant0916 Does John sound important to you out of that specific context no one will put that to?
@@Xuphilo_CHSM It's that Flammarion immediately knew that context and still thought the name was boring.
flamerion amuses me so much. "I have no preference to the human names you have given me" "uh okay. I'll call you john." "lame as hell, try again."
Probably anticipated the level of reverence he likely got when he appeared to humans in other eras. Unfortunately, it appears these scientists are not known for their grandeur.
"Ill name you john" "F*** Off"
@@avonzapper I like how Flamarion thinks that the name given to it is intentionally from the Bible
i like it, maybe on accasion needing to fight a big scary guy who doesnt wanna go away,l but mostly just helping for exploration, no fight just research. brain over brawn
lmao flamerion being like "dude. john. really? couldn't think of anything better?"
killing me actually
Imagine being rosted by a random star dude.
Sorry to everyone named "John"
Ok but we really need to discuss the member of the top secret monster research team who looked a god in the eye and said "John seems like a fitting name for you"
@@insertcleverjoke8383 They need to have nervs made of dimonds, not steel.
Bedrock guts
“If your going to give me a name from the bible at least give me one that’s sound’s important” growing up from a Christian background I find that hilarious
I haven’t read the Bible much (though, I really should fix that) so I don’t know if one of the Johns actually was important or if the creature was being sarcastic. Care to enlighten me?
@@ethanemerson4862I haven't read the bible but the name is John, like that's an ordinary ass name. Like most people know at least one John.
Names like Methuselah sound more important even if they actually aren't
@@alliecore225 yeah i mean if the name is used for a kaiju its means it good enough
John can be important in two ways,
There's John the Baptist, cousin of Jesus and the one who baptized him, awakening his legacy as the Savior and son of God. He was beheaded by Herod and his wife since he disproved their marriage but he certainly left a mark on New Testament history. He even led the first disciples of Jesus to him.
Then there is John, one of those first disciples, brother of James, son of Zebedee and (hypothetically but believed by me) the revelator, who was the disciple Jesus loved (not romantically or lustfully you dirty birds), the one who witnessed him on the cross with the two Marys, and possibly the only disciple who died of old age and not matyred like the others. On the island of Patmos, he was the one who God wisked into the future and saw how the world will end in the 21 judgements; 7 seals 7 trumpets, and 7 bowls.
So yeah, a Baptist of astral proportions and the one who seen the apocalypse...
Sorry @alliecore225 but for an ordinary "butt" name, John is pretty badbutt in its own right. Quite fitting for an astral diety, (even of the REAL God can kick his butt unto two).
And Ethan Emerson, I think you should read the Bible. I encourage it. Yes, it can be boring to some, but with the right prayers for discernment, and a love for spicy family betrayals, holy war, spiritual justice, end time prophecy, and words from the savior, Jesus Christ himself, I think it's worth the read, even if is a verse or two each day.
Your welcome from your local Bible knowledge dropper-
Nathan
@@ProjectChimiracle thank you!
Idk if it’s been mentioned but I think if the game’s main theme is going to be the pursuit of understanding, then it would be interesting to catch Enigmorphs through something like a “True Name”. From what I understand from Demonology, knowing a demon’s true name is supposed to give you power over them. Maybe through building enough understanding, maybe through sub-objectives specific to each Enigmorph, you’d be able to add one to your team. It would help give each Enigmorph a unique connection with the player without having to rely on something like battling.
I am going to say my opinion here. This is gold idea.
Maybe by discovering their vices, since that seems like one of the themes going on, is a great idea. It can naturally develop into interesting, problem-solving orientated gameplay. Maybe you can find puzzles or secret places by exploring in town that give you the clues you need to catch them easier?
How about having to draw a specific rune for each one, to make them acknowledge you? Kinda like each demon has their own one?
That's an interesting thing to consider! Currently, I imagined that the Enigmorphs themselves - at least the Primes - never used names. Names are a construct invented by humans to help them better understand the world around them. But perhaps giving a Prime Enigmorph a name does weaken them in some way, as having even that level of comprehension is still detracts from their power.
@@Subjectively Maybe they could even have two names, like Gandalf or anything in Eragon - a name given to them by people, and a true name that catches the essence of who or what they are.
Here's an idea what if you learned more and more about enigmorphs Over time and the more you learn about them the weaker they get, and once you get to a certain state of knowledge you can actually catch them
Edit: thats a lot of people
thats realy cool
Maybe based on two type of knowledge? One about the type of enigmorph in general and also about the individual enigmorph maybe it's likes dislikes etc...
This is so that not all strong NPCs in the game are researchers. Maybe one boy who bonded with a specific enigmorph is really strong with it.
Knowing textbook knowledge about the enigmorph would make you stronger against that specific species. And knowing more personally an enigmorph would make you stronger against that specific individual.
I love that idea! It would be cool if each encounter allows you to progress your sketch/entry in your journal, and once mostly rendered it would then allow you to capture or work with the enigmorph
@@realpatty there's a discord?
@@ratnakarporob i LOVE that idea!
Maybe the combat dilemma could be linked to the primes. Maybe at the start, you choose a 'patron'. Flamerion is the patron of understanding, for those who wish to document and explore, and leads the player down that path. Camazotz represents the path of power, and appeals to those who desire supreme power via eldritch means. Flamerion would assist/push towards nonviolent solutions, while Camazotz would assist/push towards violent solutions. It's the dichotomy of science: knowledge for the sake of knowledge vs knowledge for the sake of your personal ends. Just an idea.
This is so funny because one of my earliest concepts for this game was very much along these lines - two paths: Curiosity and fear, and the player could either to act aggressively out of fear, or move slowly and meticulously through the world and be motivated by curiosity. Khamazotz and Flammarion definitely still embody both these themes.
@@Subjectively This idea reminds me a lot of Eternal Darkness, where you choose a patron at the beginning for the antagonists. Maybe that could apply here, with an opening sequence playing as a young/inexperienced Big Bad Guy to choose the sort of power/motivation they have.
Seconded! That way we could have the best of both worlds :D
Please don't remove combat from the game @@Subjectively consider the actual gameplay loop stripped of the lore/flavor. Making enigmorphs into puzzle pieces rather than weapons- instead of both- rips the beating heart out of the monster collection game. A lot of the art caused by the verisimilitude vacuum left behind by the pokemon games does depict the use of pokemon in day to life sure, but also in war and conflict. For example, if we're secret agents we might do something like this ruclips.net/video/wU-TWKxDu2o/видео.html with our Enigmorphs.
@@Subjectively Neat idea! One concept I think would be interesting to adapt is how the player interacts with the Enigmorphs: as a trainer/master like most Mon series, or as a true equal. Maybe one allows the Enigmorph to grow more powerful and loyal but somehow gives the player less control (as in a higher chance of using a random ability instead of what you commanded, or instead of an inventory to pull the Enigmorph from you have a summon system that has the small chance of bringing another Enigmorph than the one you wanted), while the other works like the classical Mon system but the Enigmorph can't learn more advanced abilities or reach full corruption, and can turn on you if mistreated enough.
Once again suggesting that the Construct type be renamed as the Ferra type, so it sounds better alongside the other two types in the triangle. I love the designs here, I can’t decide which of the Primes I like more!
yes that’s a great idea
Oh yeah! Like iron - I like it!
I saw another comment in the first video that suggested Fabrio, which I think fits even better
I like it either
As Zylber said, I think something like Fabrica type would work better, since it means ‘craft’ or ‘device’ which is more general than iron specifically.
"Something moved the monkey" is such a silly yet threatening sentence
Here's an idea for how to create a team of enigmorphs. You would start with a set amount of "sanity" where the quantity and quality of your enigmorph would affect it. You could either have a lot of low level enigmorphs, one or two stronger enigmorphs, or a combination in between. If your team would extend beyond your "sanity", you would either not be able to bring that team as it would cap out to your max "sanity", or you would begin to lose control over the enigmorphs making your missions harder to perform.
Essentially what is seen in Digimon, especially Cyber Sleuth.
In Mayan mythology, Camazotz was described as a giant, sapient bat who was the Mayan god of death, which makes sense with this reimagining’s typing. I like how this version of him seems less blatantly bat-like and much more alien, looking more akin to a dragon than a bat.
It is a cool idea
He looks like a dragon skull bat thing, which is a cool combo
I agree. As though the only word they had in their mental inventory was 'bat' and the description stuck. So, as an HSS member, you try going through translations and descriptions and get... 'bat', for some reason. Then you finally SEE the blessed thing and go, '... oh.' :o
It's crazy to think and amazing to see how Bonnie's design has evolved over the past years.
I was gonna say that! 😄 But, really, the way this series has evolved over time is incredible!
@@Agnes_Bramble absolutely! Like, if you dig all the way to their first concepts (weird and kinda clumsy tentacle being) to this gorgeously painted and unsettling "Flammarion", it's mind-blowing. Pure artistic growth, just like with the Mazah Region
The real ones know Flammarion by another name @@silver_moth
@@SubjectivelyJohn.
@@Subjectively I wasn't sure, but I thought I saw a resemblance... good to know I was on the right track!
I like the "drawing as catching". Maybe portray them more as "talismans". This would allow them to be stored, traded, etc. And easily slot into a journal.
Given that the organization is research focused. It would make sense to do sketches of the “flora and fauna” as it were like old-timey explorer organizations as well as keeping notes of observations so following the creatures and attempting to understand them in order to befriend them. Creating a pretty empathetic gameplay loop.
So kind of like Cardcaptor Sakura...? Interesting.
This is subjectively sick af
Its funny cos thats the name of the channel
@@Wendighost_7dude thank god for this explanation
@jackiecozzie4803 I know right? I would've never gotten the joke otherwise
3 things came to mind for me with this video that I simply must comment.
1 - Flamerion basically being al "What? Everyone else has a name you gave them? But I dont???? I want a cool name, too! Gimme a name!" Is so fantastic and weirdly endearing to me. Like I love them so much. I also love how sassy and almost like, self-centered/arrogant the whole "If youre gonna give me a biblical name, at least make it a COOL and IMPORTANT sounding one" bit feels. They really feel like they just have this well developed concept and idea behind them, and a fleshed out characterization and motive. It also happens to be a characterization I love.
2 - I actually ADORE the capture mechanic working off of sketching them in a journal! Furthermore, I think the idea of you having to sketch them down because being able to depict and understand the enigmorphs tames them. That is SUCH A GOOD IDEA. Like, it fits this whole project super well!! For one, the whole point of the organization is to understand the enigmorphs. That is the point of the game. Secondly it makes a ton of sense that bizarre paranormal eldritch sorta beings would be less wild and dangerous if you understood them. Like part of what makes stuff like that so dangerous is that you don't understand it. So knowledge about them being a way to tame and befriend them is such a good idea and fits so well. It also fits thematically for the game in a meta sense, too! Like, it seems like - since you're leaning away from combat - that it's gonna be primarily a mystery and puzzle game. So the whole game is about figuring stuff out; being able to capture/tame the creatures by understanding them is PERFECT for a puzzle/mystery game! And finally it makes a good choice mechanically, too! Because then you can have it so that your journal can be added to the more you learn about the enigmorphs in your party! Just initially recording them in your journal lets you tame them, but as you interact with them more in the game, you can learn more about them. Writing that new knowledge in the journal could unlock new skills for your party members! It'd also make a dynamic where you had to decide if it was more worth investing time learning about a team member, or if it would be better to just tame a new enigmorph!
3 - I am in love with that little dragony lightbulb creature. Like 10/10 top tier design right there. I saw him taking form in the speedpaint footage and IMMEDIATELY wanted to befriend the little goober. He's just freaking friend shaped, man! Perfect little lad, must hug.
It's already got me super hyped about the project. VERY exciting stuff. Also, first time an ad segment has ever been useful or interesting to me. Gonna make an Unvale account sometime soon! Thanks for telling us about it.
EDIT - Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of there NOT being combat. It would REALLY help set it apart from other monster collectors, and help it be really unique. There are very few, if any, games in this genre that AREN'T about battling.
Here's a suggestion... As mentioned in 19:24 , The idea of enigmorphs causing 'mental burden' to someone could make it so that each player have a certain amount of 'mental capacity' which measures how many enigmorphs a person can "tame" or "understand" and the amount of mental capacity an enigmorph can take would depend on their classification and how much you understand that said enigmorph. For example, prime enigmorphs are so mysterious and ambiguous that they take most of the mental capacity. Maybe there could also be a way for players to expand their mental capacity or maybe the more a player understand an enigmorph it can reduce the amount of mental capacity that enigmoprh consumes.
What this means is that it could open to certain gameplay possibilities where players must carefully choose which enigmorphs to take while trying to balance their mental capacity. This could also open for game balancing where players can't just take a bunch of strong enigmorphs (although I don't think this would be a problem since you mentioned that there wont be much combat). Or it could also mean that since prime enigmorphs are so 'godly', one's mental capacity isn't capable of 'taming' more than one at a time. This could also mean that each player may have a unique playthrough.
I love this world and the ideas that you have created, they are like a breath of fresh air for me. Still, i am very conflicted with the "No combat" situation. While, i understand the point, i think that having Enigmorph that work as "protectors" of the researchers would go well with the thematic. After all, these creatures don't look peaceful, and making sort of a "pact" or a "contract" where the researcher give something for the Enigmorph to protect him, would be interesting. I would also say, combat can be made in a lot of different ways, as conflict is a part of action, a part of making the player be "active".
For example, a combat system where the researcher is front and center in the conflict. The researcher needs to "obtain" enough information about the Enigmorph to weaken it, but in order to do so, he uses the enigmorphs he has in his party to help him out, providing different things like, shields, chance for questions, stuns, discover if a fact is a lie or truth, etc, etc. Not searching to "defeat" him, but reduce his "influence" and the "truth" of the creature itself, and in turn, giving the researcher a chance to get what he wants. At the end of this situation, maybe the Enigmorph could have a chance of making a contract with you.
I don't see combat as a "fight of flee", more like a mechanic that makes the player use his creatures actively in other situations. You could say that Contests competition on Pokemon are a type of combat, as every pokemon has it own stats and qualities to help you win them.
I feel like no combat could absolutely work. Make the goal discovering the enigmorph's vice(s), with stronger enigmorphs being more erratic and mysterious. Maybe rewarding exploration of the town to make catching/neutralising them easier by giving the player hidden clues to 'weaken' their opponents or boosting the effectiveness of their own enigmorphs?
Alternatively, the 'combat' could be an interrogation to find the enigmorph's vice.
Maybe you're doing certain actions to buy time for your interrogation, and with each 'question' or 'action' (could involve gameplay like how you dodge attacks in undertale) another clue is revealed. Maybe vices are swayed by conversation points, actions, items or certain types or enigmorph abilities, that capture them or neutralise them, with each enigmorph having a relatively unique group of methods that, once you've discovered them once, they give some kind of alert if you meet them again.
@@echopeak5953 In my opinion that's combat too. I refer to combat as "conflict", a battle of attrition to put it in some way. Not necessary by "fighting", but other actions that can lead to the depletion of the opponent forces and subsequently, being able to capture them
I love the idea of understanding them in order to weaken them bc once you start binding the unknown to the rules of knowing the unknown is there, it becomes less paradoxical. when you know that the impossible is happening in front of you and the unreal is interacting with the real world, logic as it was conceived before will no longer work. Instead, by acknowledging its existence and influence; by giving them names, recognizable imagery and known characteristics, you are conceptualizing them.
I love the tension of a Monster collectible game where the Combat isn't the focus. As you explain, I would see an argument to include "brute force" or "combat/battle" as an optional way to progress.
On the spot, I'm thinking of a "Hostile aura" building up from doing so. Where it could become harder and harder to gather knowledge on your Enigmorphes or to collect more Enigmorphes, becoming quasi-impossible for you to become stronger. Then, having a secret reward or encounter for being a violence-focus player (a Prime Enigmorph could be related to this hostile path).
A "Cunning aura" vs a "Hostile aura" could be used as a hidden stat.
Some Enigmorphes could interact more or less depending on the score you have.
i.e. Arborent could be increasingly aggressive (blocking his way with powers, up to starting combat) toward the player the higher the Hostile aura is. Or having Woewhirl flee instantly if the player has a high Hostile aura.
Omnipotent gods turned mortal and left powerful in a monster collection game? Shin megami tensei 5 would like a word lol. I kid, but that is a funny coincidence and I’m super excited for this.
Love the character Bonnie has in even this little snippet, I feel like they just create nascent enigmorphs to either mess with people or study their reactions
Love the character design on Bonnie’s new human form-the hair matching the swoopy bit of their enigmorph form, covering one eye to match the one eye of the other form, and making a triangular silhouette to match the other form’s head. Super cool looking human while still clear in their connection to their enigmorph appearance.
I love the atmosphere of the first half of this video. It's like I watching some VHS horror, and this genre was quite to my liking in recent times.
flamerion, about to reveal itself to an unsuspecting human: this is going to be so so funny
"I have no quarrel with you."
"John."
" *I now have a quarrel with you.* "
Oh my god, Subjectively. You have somehow tapped into everything that I like in fiction. Fantastical creatures, original style, LORE. I am on the edge of my seat. Thank you for making this world!
The sketching idea reminds me of a concept I had for a game awhile back, where all enemies first appeared as horrible monsters, but as you studied them and learned about them, they 'delusion' of horror was replaced with understanding of knowledge. Sort of like how a shark was originally thought to be a creature known as a Sea Dog. Maybe you could play with something like that? Like the creatures start out as unknowable horrors, their mere presence and direct viewing of the player can cause harm and paranoia. But if you take time to learn and study them the horror aspect decreases and you are left with something you understand and can 'speak to' in a sense, like an animal trainer.
The down side to this, would be understanding how to approach research and how much of it, because if players are okay with spending a great deal time of time to acquire their creatures, then having a set level of knowledge you must acquire to understand for them works.
The problem with removing the combat element was that, the combat element in poke worked two fold, as a means of defeating your enemies, but also a quick method to acquire more monsters. It fed back into itself.Allowing you to learn the games core mechanics so you could be better at battles and so you could continue to acquire more monsters.
But if the main element is research, then 'capturing' the creatures needs to be tied to. Meaning ti has to be something you can do again and again, not to mention something you'd want to do again and again. Which becomes harder depending on how many creatures you intended to capture, because the more work you have to do, the work tedious it could become.
You know it would be possibly interesting with the combat problem just have it be a choice, players when faced with an obstacle that may require confronting other enigmorphs could choose an alternative route instead and choose to go and negotiate depending on if enigmophs are intelligent enough and could even depend on the enigmorph as some may require combat for them to join you and such but it could be the path to solve and also create different paths the player can go through
Ik you said you didn’t want to make a combat system, but I thought that it would be really fitting that in the canon, a member of the club archives their knowledge to trading cards, and the tcg exists in game within the club, maybe as a fun endgame mechanic or a goofy one-off quest. I just feel like the cards would fit the knowledge aspect more, while fitting the “drawing into life” concept a bit more.
Having the Enigmorphs helping you evolve in your environment reminds me of the Monster Sanctuary game on Steam.
Great game.
And the idea of taming an Enigmorph by sketching them reminds me of Haruhiko's power in Myriad Colors Phantom World.
If properly drawn, he could seal them in his sketchbook.
Eventually, he'd drew some originals himself and summons them for battle.
I love the snippet about knowing the enigmorphs more to catch them!
Maybe a number of "facts" are available and can be found out in different ways and in different parts of the world. The crazier the enigmorph, the more difficult it is to get information snippets on them. So to catch a more powerful enigmoprh, you might need to visit and master the challenges in multiple locations, for which you can use the help and abilities of your weaker enigmorphs.
If you've discovered 80% (arbitrary number) of facts about an enigmorph, no matter which ones, you know enough to sketch them into your "dex" and summon them to catch them.
Each enigmorph becomes an investement to work towards. The more that each snippet of knowledge interests the player, the more they might want to follow that thread, uncover more and more and eventually be able to catch the creature! This could be an incredibly satisfying result to something you've invested so much time and effort in.
It would also make each playthrough completely different. Players might stumble upon different bits of enigmorph lore and depending on what catches their interest, they might go on different adventures and see different enigmorphs.
Less "gotta catch 'em all" and more "follow the threads and catch the cool one".
If I may add, perhaps rather then an Fauna-Flora-Construct triangle, perhaps blend Fauna and Flora in together and have a 3rd one based on Prime Enigmorphs making Nascents from fictional concepts from human psyche or their own?
A biological - construct - concepts triangle?
Can't wait to see the Pinnochio enigmorph... although would that be a concept type or construct type?
Interesting idea... though I wonder if that might be too complex of a basis to create one of the three primary typings around?
@@Subjectively I don’t think so, since Fictional Concepts can give you the freedom to make Non-Prime Enigmorphs based off of famous mythological and folkloric figures, as well as characters from famous books too
A cool concept could be that each new form your Enigmorph evolves into comes from learning a new layer to their nature, like how their corruption came to be.
"I HAVE NO PREFERENCE."
"Uh... how about John?"
"...I HAVE ONE PREFERENCE."
I almost wonder if instead of "capturing" them you could befriend them. Like by learning about the creature their final form unfogs and you can actually perceive them, and in doing so and taking down their form, they respect you and you can befriend them. Or they reveal their form to you more as that bond grows.
I dunno I just like the idea that they are willingly working with you because you took the time to invest in and understand them.
And what you said around 18:18, about drawing enigmorphs, is an interesting ideia because it can serve 2 purposes in the game:
- The sketch of an enigmorph is then added to a "pokedex", thust serving the purpose of "needing to understand the cretature in order to tame it" and also serves the in-game purpose of adding entries the "pokedex". It's a smooth bridge between the 2.
- Allowing players to ONLY be able catch enigmorphs through understanding of its nature is well represented via drawing them in a sketch. Afterall, being able to draw something is good example to show understanding of a given topic.
Uh, if you end up liking my ideia of "The primal god of stars", then maybe there could be written a fun twist in the story: the players believing they need a special set of pens and books to be able to record enigmorphs BUT, if they come from human imagination and imposed on the world by the God of Stars to balance lack of entropy in the universe, then humans just have to BELIEVE they can catch enigmorphs via sketching. The power of catching wasnt in a special book or pen, but unside human minds all this time.
If there was ever a game where first draft on some things being just COMPLETELY wrong, especially regarding the enigmorphs themselves, this is the one. You're just learning the truth as you keep digging.
Game direction? Maybe something like Golden Sun. Top down with emphasis on puzzles and leaping over ledges. I wouldn't rule out combat. Maybe get rid of the reliance on monster levels. Many places will be crawling with agressive mons. A focus on tactics and preserving health over mowing through opposition. Gameplay similar to how you interact with the monsters in undertale. You could talk them out of combat use items to get them to leave. Items to make them sleep. Some combat is unavailable but levels are unnecessary.
Some areas may need items or passwords or hints on hidden passages.
A heavy emphasis on getting information and communicating with people and mons alike.
Just my thoughts.
If you're still up for suggestions, enigmorphs could be "caught" based on research about them, as your understanding over them makes a connection between both, this genuine understanding being really desired by most.
Research could happen during exploration, like walking through town and you see a Woewhorl between normal crows. The weaker Enigmorphs needing less research, while Apex level ones would not only need a lot, but also finding them in tight time windows.
I love how he was trying to be so mysterious and the agent just was like” seriously? Be more unique, don’t just take from the Bible…. Shaking my head.. “
I think it would be really cool for there to be a recurring enemy enigmorph, something like an anti-enigmorph that purposefully target other enigmorph to grow stronger and stronger until it's strong enough to kill god
I can see this game going in a modern-Persona-esque direction where it goes back and forth between day-to-day life and dungeon crawling with both sides effecting each-other in their gameplay and narrative.
maybe the thing to capture them can be some kind of prime magic book, once singular and magical, but with science and tecnology, humans can reproduce this book to all members who needs to capture enigmorphs
I love the idea. Reminds me of SCP or Control's "Federal Bureau of Control". Would be fun to see it go into a bit darker themes. Like The call of Cthulhu. Something like the primes being incomprehensible and literally dangerous to behold for example.
encounters with the enigmorphs can produce an opportunity to drop a body part. these parts can be contribute to a single anatomical study. Anatomy studies then make up the whole.
The whole is bound to a book that can neither be recreated nor destroyed, but can always grow more pages and pages always are blank to anyone but the owner. This makes each player’s book “unique” (wands in Harry Potter)
Protagonist only comes to know this secret order of enigmacon (the book) holders by chance; you have to own a book first to even know this society exists. The books have a will of their own and reveal themselves under “fated” circumstances, otherwise they look like regular books.
Love this project. Can’t wait to see more.
This is a really cool idea
I think a cool idea for the game would be have 2 or 3 endings depending on if you’ve played good, evil or neutral. Maybe depending on what type of enigmorphs you have on your team could give you the option for good or evil actions depending on their nature. So I you play with a full evil team or full good team and depending on how you use these actions then you get a new ending to the game
Maybe the core combat of this game should be based on understanding creators. Discovering their types and powers is necessary to bring them. That way the curiosity aspect of the setting and theme can be worked into the combat. Also, it will inherently make rarer/new endomorphs more powerful because you will not understand at first but everything becomes equally strong once you figure them out. If you are a ttrpg fan it could almost be like Monster of the Week's mechanic of monsters only being able to be vanquished in a specific way that it is a mystery to find out. It could also maybe work like sparing in Undertail where a specific monster needs certain actions done in the right order to be spared. With you figuring this out using context clues and their reactions. Almost like a puzzle game.
I think enigmorphs are concepts, definitions, and characteristics brought into the physical world, like people from the early ages describing animals they haven't seen, like "a creature with the body of a horse the neck and head of a snake with horns" but it's just a giraffe but be cause it's described that way it becomes like that so the enigmorphs and the giraffe exist at the same time
The act of understanding an enigmorph would likely restrain them. The name they bare would be a good hint. The less you know about them they become more free and abstract! Of course you could also have the act of learning take a toll on your character, and various means of minimizing/removing that damage could be introduced. Once an enigmorph is understood it can be depicted.
Any of this sound interesting?
If you're looking for inspiration on what a less combat focused monster collector could look like, I recommend taking a look at the Yo-Kai Watch series. Yes, there is combat in the game, but the player acts more like a coach rather than a trainer, swapping them around on the fly, giving each Yo-Kai items, and occasionally activating a super move (which by the way is a good reference for how you could incorporate Enigmorph combat abilities), The main reason I bring this series up, however, it's conflicts and story progression. In the first game, lots of it is set up like a monster-of-the-week slice-of-life anime where there's a problem in the world caused by the Yo-Kai, and the main character and his Yo-Kai have to try to fix it. I figure that could be an interesting way to take the game. Just give it a darker tone, add some puzzle solving, maybe even a full-on mystery element, and I think you could have something special.
The enigmorph type between Spectral and Astral would be very neat if the actual differences between them is not necessarily from the supernatural afterlife and the cosmic expanse beyond, but the aspects of the material and immaterial universe. That would be pretty neat, I think! Keep up the good work ^-^
I have two suggestions. Firstly: PLEASE give fungi their own typing, like flora and fauna-- they even have their own similar scientific name, which is funga-- Fungi are just as important and influential to the world at large as animals and plants are, and fungi are also massively diverse in appearances (it's not just mushrooms! molds, shelf fungi aka polypores, mildews, yeasts, and more!) and also also, if they were included as a sub-type... they shouldn't be under flora. Fungi are actually more closely related to animals than they are to plants! And there are "planty" animals like corals and sea anenomes too, but you wouldnt classify those as plants, would you?
Second is for a third group of the primes. I love cosmic and spectral, but i think you could add another called "abstract" or "imaginary" or "conceptual" that is about embodying entire abstract concepts. Like one could just be... based on the concept of falling, or the concept of competition.
Love the concept art of the researchers exploring with their enigmorphs! It really fleshes out the interesting ideas and themes that make this game unique.
I think that instead of being a 2D point and click adventure game with a pokemon style battle system, I think It would be fun for it to be a 3D platformer with more "breath of the wild" style combat. Where you could take control of the Enigmorphs to fight other Enigmorphs, or corrupted humans!
Although that might be too much to ask for a project like this.
I think the Enignomicon ( the pokedex) should have a layout like the dragonology books I feel in love with when I was a kid. Imagine highlighting a little envelope attached to the page and its a hand written note from the last owner. Or procuring a uv flashlight to reveal secrets on the pages. Or the little pouches with bits made from or spawned by the presence of the enigmorph right on the page interactible.
Holy - Enignomicon!! What a fantastic name!! Can't believe I didn't think of that, thanks a ton!!!
@@Subjectively Omg core memory unlocked I helped a Subjectively project!
Firsth of all, I love the fact you got rid of combat. So many monster-catching games have it, so one in which you don't make them fight is not only refreshing, but I think it also helps the immersion and attatchment to the monsters. If they're used only for battle, they start to seem more like a weapon then a friend, so you often end up discarding the monster you had before in favour of a new, stronger one.
But here, you don't fight with them, instead you learn with and about them, thus making you connect with them more than combat ever could.
And they might seem scary at firsth, but the more you learn about them and understand them, the less scary they are (this is of course connected to the fear of the unknown).
I like the idea that these creatures are helping you not because they have to, but because they want to, which is more similar to friendship, which I think should really be more emphasized in the monster collecting game, specifficaly because you're not collecting items that have to be used, you're collecting living beings and it's your responsibility care for them.
In short, I like tgis direction and really am looking forward to seeing how the relationship between the player and the enigmorphs they catch develops.
PS. For player character designs, it feels kinda obvious that, unlike pokemon protagonists, they should be grown up people.
And, just throwing ideas out there, they can have different backgrounds and thus, different starting abillities and enigmorph type preferences. Maybe they can change later on throught the journey and thus, players can have the ability to customize their appearance a bit.
Anyways, It would be interesting to see what kinds of people would join the Hunter's hope club and why.
That's all from me, I look forward to seeing more!
Bonding an enigmorph by sketching is such a cool, and thematic for this channel, idea! Maybe in addition to sketching and understanding you can also have the enigmorph “mark” the pact like a paw-print type deal.
Would be a nice touch to individualise the pact of the specific enigmorph to the player and adds that extra story element of getting to a certain degree of acquaintance with the enigmorph so that they will affirm your bond
- Also could be used to explain why illustrating & understanding the prime enigmorph does not bind them (though I doubt they’ve been anywhere close to being understood!)
Love your presentation as always, Jack! That first half was super fun and engaging, really pulling me into the world, and I loved being able to understand the nitty gritty with you addressing us in a more grounded way!
I've been toiling away at my own monster tamer as well and I resonate a lot with your approach to leaving combat behind (to whatever degree that might be as you continue development). I think leaning into the mental aspect and fulfilling the player and player character's curiosity by investigating the Enigmorph's really push this into it's own gamefeel and would be really refreshing in the monster tamer space!
Cannot wait to see what you continue to cook up; keep it up Jack!
The idea of solving mysteries being the central part of the game instead of battling sounds great!
Hell yeah. This might come off weird, but I was never into your pokemon series. I'm super stoked for the game and every piece of content you drop while working on it. The vibe is super cool and I love that you're attempting a more serious approach to the monster collection genre.
I think in order for the world to feel dangerous you need to have combat in one form or the other. However I think a note from the Fear and Hunger games can be taken here. And that combat should be an incredibly resource intensive. And while exploring you're options to restore resources like health (both player and enigmorph), mana (for enigmorphs to use their attacks and for you to possibly control them), and items/consumables (which will be invaluable). This would discourage combat and make combat scary. It would also add tension to exploration, because you knwo the next fight might wipe out your progress. It would also give you a reason to go on various side quests in order to get access to new vendors with useful items. (you can also experiment with the idea that consumables are regained after an exploration.
When it comes to acquiring an enigmorph I think a side quest to collect them would be interesting. In the hub area there could be a sign board with spotted enigmorphs with a silluette and a little bit of information. The player would go to said location and do a short quest gaining knowledge on them. Once you have enough knowledge you can confront them and catch them.
i feel like the capture mechanic could be something in the style of the safari zone's "get this animal to trust you through a bunch of actions" but with different actions for each monster like in undertale and the megami tensei series
and sketching or observing the monsters in their natural habitat could raise an analysis level that raises chances of capture
the more intelligent monsters could even work like smt demons, where you need to flatter them and give them stuff for them to agree to work with you
I would love to have the way to increase "knowledge"/sketches on the primes by completing the understandings of the enigmorph's that they have created
I will leave here my opinion about the combat question.
So, i agree, based on the lore you give in the two videos the game dont need to be centralized on the battle system, but, combat can be one of the obstacles the player have to perpass. What i'm trying to say is, the combat can be one more possible puzzle, and can be resolved with some types of enygmates (sorry if i wrote wrong), i think that is good to make a variability to the uses of this creatures (also i'm not a native english speaker, so forgive possible errors in the text).
i think the idea of having to catch the Enigmorphs be to sketch them is a really cool idea- and perhaps instead of having the Enigmorphs you have attack them, they can help you with identifying the Enigmorph in front of you! Perhaps you need to identify three/five main points of the Enigmorph, and you have a window to do so. Each trait indentified restarts the timer, and you can use the traits that your Enigmorphs have to help you.
For example, lets say you DO bring a fire Enigmorph down into a watery area, and by using its "shine" ability, it causes the Enigmorph you are trying to catch to flower and reveal another part of itself that otherwise wouldve been hidden. If you don't identify all the traits needed to catch it and sketch it well, you cant comprehend and understand the Enigmorph, so it disappears/flees. However, thats not to say that the encounter was worthless! afterall, you still learned something. so maybe when/if you encounter it again, you already have one or two traits identified, you just need the last puzzle piece
Woah lotta long comments full of ideas, glad to see others are just as excited by this premise as I am. I'll throw my two cents in cause i didn't see anyone else say it yet: a game with themes of exploration and uncovering hidden truths, paired with a premise of collecting stuff, and low/no combat? Sounds like a mystery point and click puzzle game to me.
If I ever encountered Flamarion(?) IRL I would be picking their brain for HOURS. And then promptly forget half of everything they told me the next day. LMAO
I do appreciate that you're moving away from using your Enigmorphs to battle, that will help a lot to emphasize that a Nascent Enigmorph isn't "weaker" than its Harbinger or Apex counterparts. Since it's not going to be a combat-focused game, though, I'll throw some ideas in the mix for what progression would look like, although I think some kind of puzzle or logic game would be the best option:
- For delving into haunted mansions or other liminal spaces, you could put emphasis on dialogue by talking with locals and putting an image/profile of the Enigmorph the player is investigating together based on their testimonies, and then following up with a hide-and-seek game in the locale in question, with your Enigmorphs helping you to find it before it can escape.
- For delving into ancient temples or ruins, you could follow a similar formula with the liminal spaces, but include deciphering pictograms or writings on the walls of the locales to glean more information on the Enigmorphs haunting them.
- For hostile Enigmorph encounters, you could go the Undertale route and have the player avoid attacks while using what knowledge they've gleaned prior to the encounter to deescalate the situation, or attempt to find its mortal vice and subdue it.
I could also imagine using all of these ideas in conjunction with each other to make a comprehensive progression system. Incorporating some other ideas I've seen, you could have the player progress on a commissionary basis, where they are hired to take piecemeal investigations on some well-documented Enigmorphs so they can build up their skills in order to tackle the lesser-known threats.
Small idea for the capturing stuff. Because u said that Enigmorphs comes from riftss from reality and other universes u could make that you catch them using a special ink wich rip the reality and close the Enigmorph in a book page. So if an Enigmorph become unalived the ink take a black colour and melt. This could bring to unstable ink or unstable Enigmorph harder to caught or even enigmorph which after being captured want to take revenge on their owneer and could try to beat them up. It's just an idea, hope u like it,I love you're work!!
Flamereon is SO COOL! The idea of a “catchable creature” discussing what it should be called in their records is suuuuuch a cool idea! That, and it noticing the Bible reference is a very cool way to illustrate just how much it truly understands. It seems like the name it might have been searching for in the Bible was right there, God. 😅
I love this style, can't wait to see it forward
With the whole saying of “knowledge is power” maybe that is how sketching them or logging them in your notebook works. They respect power; and knowledge is power. You know of them, and now they, know of you.
The concept of catching them with books is very interesting, maybe you can name Grimoire as Pokemdex.
To be honest, I was actually waiting for the battle concept, thinking about how the type advantage would be applied, only then did I think about giving suggestions for using a capture tool in the form of a gun. Because the theme really reminds me of the Victorian era or Witchcraft, I thought the catching tool would be good if it was in the form of an Electric Gun, like a Ghostbuster when catching ghosts.
Oh, oh, or you could maybe make the Grimoire look more modern for its capturing method. For example, a book has a Cable connected to a Wand. then the explorer will shoot electricity from the Wand and slowly the Enigmorph will be sucked in and draw in the Grimoire. What players do is simply buy lots of paper to fill the Grimoire as a substitute for Pokeballs. The summoning method is also as simple as opening a book and calling out the name of the monster in the book.
I _love_ the changes being proposed to the gameplay! Drawing the creature to capture it sounds really fascinating; having to improve your drawing skills could allow the player to catch more complex-looking creatures as a sort of "level up" type system, too. For example, most people could draw a relatively simple bunny if they put their mind to it, but horses are notoriously harder to draw.
I think the game The Unavowed could be a great inspiration for how to handle this mystery. It's also an urban fantasy mystery game, and whilst it's point and click it's puzzles are a lot simpler than the point and clicks of old.
Importantly you have 4 companions with different skills, powers, and backstories who can solve similar problems but in unique ways. They can also work together, like a cop being able to find the name of a dead body which a medium uses to calm their ghost and talk to them. I think each evolution line of Enigmorphs having unique ways to solve problems would be really cool.
Admittedly something about the idea of understanding being able to tame them reminds me of this random SCP
basically foundation staff would randomly drop dead in the dark once every 3 months and nobody could understand why.
Then one researcher as a way to relieve his fear drew this phenomenon as an anime girl giving it the name yukiko and giving it a backstory about being raised as part of a clan of assassins
somehow once this became known the phenomenon stopped entirely, because as it turns out this phenomenon was created from the foundation staffs fear, so giving it a name and a face in a way helped alleviate that fear.
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Some gang mechanic ideas
There can be three roots, potentially 🤷♂️
Where do you stay with the hunters and understanding
Or become a freelance and help the people and the an morph to live equally
Or become a ruthless killer
Another way you could catch enigmorphs is to have the player have a "starter enigmorph" - that's your ticket into the Hunter's Hope. And then that 1st enigmorph would help you convince other enigmorphs to join your team. The higher level the enigmorph is and the more knowledgeable you are, the more likely you are to succeed in befriending other monsters. Kind of like how Hiccup uses his knowledge and Toothless' influence to befriend other dragons. And maybe the typing could influence things too - a Flora enigmorph would be less receptive to a Fire enigmorph, for exemple.
That would be cool
So, from what im gathering, you're making a monster collecting... immersive sim? I have to say, i wasn't expecting that, but I'm positively captivated by the idea. I look forward to this project's future! Its sure to be interesting at the least!
In my opinion, I think Combat should be a part of the game in some way shape or form. I'm not saying that it needs to be the main thing (I think your concept Is really interesting) but I think it would be wise to keep it in. Maybe a mechanic where you need to understand the thing, you're fighting to fight against it. Like say you're trying to go up against a gang leader, you would need to gather information about him to go up against him.
P.S: Puzzel + JRPG = Good Game
I think the main reason would simply be the vibe. Having these cool Late-17th century hunter types with huge swords and axes that track down eldritch creatures and learn about them alongside stuffy professor types is the main idea the art gives me.
I know this comment may be buried (and it's not impossible somebody else said this) but a bit of my thoughts on the subject:
What if, as a sort of concept to explain why drawing an enigmorph would tame them, the enigmorphs themselves are just as clueless as the humans? *They* don't even know what they are, how could they if most of them are just mutated hunks of metal or plants or normally-not-too-introspective animals? And this acts as a sort of source for their aggravation. To be shown a mirror, to be given a name (something I saw someone else saying as an idea), a rendition of what and who they are in the eyes of another, it calms them and allows the avenue of forming a partnership, as a sort of thanks for clearing up their own understandings, or gives them enough definition in this "imagination makes it a little true" world where they don't know what to think of themselves, not-enough in the eyes of the world to be given a solid form? Could be that enigmorphs require multiple forms of being told what they are; some don't have eyes so can't look at a paper; may need to hear it from an already tamed enigmorph, etcetera.
I like the idea of this monster collecting game also being a puzzler. That whole concept of Enigmorphs having vices made me think of having to do puzzles to catch each of your new team mates and then the idea that they’ll help further your investigations is killer awesome too. Puzzles totally fit the whole human intellect and discovery theme.
Maybe the capture method of drawing them down could contain a journal entry about what the Enigmorph’s vice is? Like you can draw it when you first see it, but the journal entry is only complete and the Enigmorph captures when you know it’s vice. (Sorry if I’m going off on one topic too much, but vices of Enigmorphs were mentioned and I thought it was really compelling.)
So maybe a gameplay loop like Pikmin could work? They have different types that aid in traversal. And while Pikmin uses number of pikmin following you as a power scaling tool, Enigmorphs could use their stages as keys to unlock gates with content. Since Enigmorphs can go back and forth between stages that also opens a lot of opportunities where you can be too weak, but also too strong. Gameplay could be placing Enigmorphs in various interaction locations exploring them, placing them elsewhere and figure out who needs to be where to trigger the right events in the right order. In that way triggering events in the environment really highlights the exploring/seeking knowlegde aspect of the game. And anigmorphs being the key to the event happening suits the exploring their potential/discovering what these creatures are and hown they work. A nice little feedback loop.
Ide for a way of "catching" the Enigmorphs:
You has to show the enigmorph the drawing and they have to recognize the drawing in the book as them.
For the game part:
Having a puzzle game where you don't always has the tools for can be very frustrating.
Making it so that you are meant to repeat the "puzzles" them and learn them, would help with that.
So I would recommend a event system.
For example something weird is happening at a graveyard, So the game rolls a a few random events that is related to the enigmorph that is there or the setting (graveyard).
The enigmorph that is there is random but based on the setting.
Having "puzzles" be solvable in several ways and some of the be chance based and some not, making the player choosing risk. The chances and what options the player has is depending on what Enigmorphs they have with them. For example they need to find something in the dark, they have a higher chance to find it depending how good the Enigmorphs can create light. If they are very good it a guaranteed success if they can't it a low chance of success.
To give a sense of progression having a home base that you upgrades/modifies to decorate, fit you play style or improve your abilities. Would be fun.
Also, I adore the idea of the sketchbook and "catching" enigmorphs by understanding them.
Perhaps it requires several encounters with a specific "species" in different contexts to fully build up the sketchbooks page. Watching how they interact with the world, and with different enigmorphs, fills in progress on the page until it's fully filled in and you can use that information to create a gift or "trap" thats unique to each species.
Perhaps even each "evolutionary line" of enigmorphs could be represented by a trinket you craft upon fully understanding each one, which then draws the enigmorph to you.
For example, a unique piece of jewellery thats irresistable to Woewhorls, a small pot of fertiliser made of Spooky Materials™️ for Borabark, and a broken pocketwatch that ticks backwards for Coggle? Something that represents your greater understanding of their wants, needs, and nature and the time youve put in to really know them.
Hmm I totally understand the no combat approach, but I do think there's a way to make it work within the larger themes of the game. (it's been awhile since I've seen the last enigmorphs video so forgive me if I'm repeating bits of already established lore or ideas)
But maybe the presence of the primal god enigmorphs are having a negative effect on all enigmorphs throughout the world, corrupting them like a virus as you said. These corrupted enigmorphs are naturally aggressive and violent, and you use your enigmorphs to combat these corrupted versions of their peers to snap them out of this state and return them to their natural state. Once you've sort of broken that spell on them, perhaps the visual tell that they're corrupted (a veil of darkness, evil eyes, tendrils, something along those lines) is lifted, and your agent can get a clear picture and sketch them in their book, making them available to be caught.
I definitely love the idea of your team giving you aid in the overworld as you explore, that's something I've always wanted the Pokemon games to do. HMs were the right idea but they never evolved in a satisfying way imo. But I do think this mechanic would be better if also accompanied by some kind of combat. Plus this way, your themes aren't really about getting stronger, it's about being more knowledgeable and prepared and as your relationship and understanding of enigmorphs grow, so too does your team and your ability to document (catch) new enigmorphs.
Lack of combat sounds bad at first blush, but you have the chance to make something really unique in the genre if your other systems are dynamic enough that we don't miss it. I definitely agree that combat against these creatures doesn't feel quite right, so here's hoping you can think of a satisfying game loop that makes Enigmorphs feel like more than just a visual novel/adventure game. But even if it were just that, the setting seems strong enough to carry it far!
I really enjoy the concept and design you made for flamerion. I love how the further up you go it becomes more and more asymmetrical like the more you try to understand it the more confusing it becomes. And, while it does have a humanoid form, it lacks a traditional face. This makes it interesting to converse with since it can speak any language fluently but would still be difficult to "read". Well done sir.
First of all omg I'm so incredibly excited for this all, secondly how you describe the way you'd interact with Enigmorphs through day-to-day tasks honestly made me think of games such as Stardew Valley, only with researching creatures instead of maintaining a farm
I do think you should still have Combat especially for Apex Encounters. Probably have Nascents have the most non-combat utility, Harbingers a good mix, and Apex mostly Combat abilities.
I'm thinking for the main game play loop a mix of Spectrobes and Legend of Zelda if that makes sense. A highly puzzle focused game where it is much more important to know your opponent than to brute force Encounters. And have the Combat similar to spectrobes where you give orders to your team while avoiding attacks yourself and providing a more support role. Maybe toggle between controlling your character and your active party member
SO COOL!!! I love the focus on knowledge and understanding, there's so many angles you can take that! I also love the way you're thinking with combat not being a thing, it displays that you're really honing in on the core experience you want the player to have in the game and are being concious that everything you design supports or conflicts with that experience. For some, getting rid of combat especially in a monster collection game is unthinkable, so you strongly consitering doing so shows that you aren't afraid to sacrifice ideas we might hold sacred if it would serve the kind of game and experience you're trying to make. Well done! With that mindset, I'm confident that you and whoever you work with will be able to make a well designed game!!
I also like how you aren't thinking about it in black and white, recognizing that perhaps combat could exist as just another type of obstacle or puzzle to solve rather than a core system of the game. It could absolutely serve to make the world feel more dangerous and create interesting problems to navigate, and at the same time it should be carefully consitered as to not take away focus from the core experience you're trying to make.
This is incredible! I'm so pumped to see this world develop and evolve, using eldritch horrors as a creature collection game is so inspired. As of now, I only have one critique as a designer.
The emblems for the enigmorph types are gorgeous! But if they're for a game, they should be simplified slightly. Perhaps even a simplified alternate version will suffice! However, if the emblems are intended to aid in categorization, they should not only translate well across different media and sizes but also be recognizable at a glance. All of the forms are already stunning; they just need some simplification. Overall, I can't wait to see more content!!
As an additional idea for capturing enimorphs , as well as drawing the enimorph to capture it, you have to draw the enimorph using a special ink that is basically enimorph blood. Once drawn the enimorph is sucked in the note book. When wanting to release an enimorph the owner of the note book must rip off the page we’re the enimorph is on allowing the enimorph break free from the paper, leaving the page it was once on blank. But when returning an enimorph that you have captured you must simply bring forth the paper that the enimorph was on and the enimorph will be sucked back in the page as well as the page returning back it its rightful place in the note book.
If this ends up as a game you can play and collect the enigmorphs I would love to see them travel with the player if they are able to be befriended (no matter how scary they are lol) it would also be interresting if by befriending and having them with you the player is able to learn more and more about them^^ the art is wonderful keep up the good work!!
just make the combat against non humans, create a prime who is just the worst, like the incarnation of evil, or the origin of it, and make them create some sort of corruption that either makes purely evil creatures, or a much cooler idea, they corrupt some enigmorphs (like the shadow pokemon form XD gale of darkness) and you need to subdue them by using your enigmorphs so you can cure them.
Idea, instead of having to help the HHC, I think it would be neat if you could choose between the HHC and helping the Primes in whatever their goal is.
I'm sure I've said this before. But I need to restate this. Not only is Jack amazing at his art, but I love his voice acting as well. You can always tell it's his voice but he always adapts his tonality and pronunciation to fit the aesthetic of the video. Like his pirate sounding tone and slang terminology for Argyle for Mermay. Kudos my guy, the voice acting goes hard and I love how you don't even train professionally for it. Would love to see this side of you grow through your videos.
I am already completely invested in this holy shit
This is the first ive seen of this project eldrich analoug horror vibes im hype
I love the sketch in your journal idea. I can picture how when you learn something new about an enigmorph the sketch becomes cleaner and new details are added and maybe when you know enough to tame it the sketch is colored.