Yeah. Still is the CPU not quicker? And in this type of game a tile based approach is less efficient. I mean it’s less size of the moving “sprites” on the other version. And cleared with flat color. So a super performant data copy code for sure
@@litjellyfish It is. On paper. Unfortunately, the processor it is halted while the TED accessing the memory, so only during the border time is near full speed, while the electron beam is drawing the main screen, it is actually slower. Also this means, the processing speed fluctuates regarding where the electron beam is. Of course if you turn off video, it is faster, but then you have no visuals.
On the c64 old model is the soundtrack from Maniacs of Noise is brilliant and for me the best. The second c64 model had sound problems with Digi Music. It sounds terrible. You can here the Title Picture track and the Sound Track from Game Title sreen on an other RUclips channel and you will see.....Hears completly better. Fantastic
@@GeorgesChannelit is always said that sprites were expensive. C64 guys wasted tons of memory for free directions scrolling. 8kB means 64kBit means 400 kTransistor. This is far more than the 5k in VIC2 or TED. Saving a few registers in the custom chip or the B Akkumulator in the 6502 and accepting the slowdown, which necessitates the buffer, doesn’t also optimize overall transistor count. Heck, it is even cost effective to put part of the zero page on die and have a code cache to fill the CPU up to 5k and run at 2.2 MHz most of the time.
Impressive work on the Plus/4, but Commodore really took a wrong turn with the whole Plus/4, C16, C128 line of computers, they should've gone for the C65 in parallel with the Amiga.
The C64 version has some extra features, and it is not the music! I think the weather with those random sprites did not add too much to the gameplay. The C64 Ferrari rotates much more :-) very realistic. Also, the blocking elements of the road/highway (three lanes, so it should be a kind of highway...) also makes no sense, although it makes the C64 more complex, but less realistic. On C64 you can very (or too) easily pass the police car. I really like the bumps, the up and down hills, that one is missing from the Pluas/4 version The side objects on the C= Plus/4 move faster, the movement is more fluid. You better feel the speed. From music side Csabo made a miracle, as I do not feel a really big difference to the legendary C64 SID version. Certainly there IS, but the difference is not painful, as usual on the TED. I prefer the visual effect of the turbo on Plus/4. All in all, most of the parts in C64 added an unreality factor to the games (maybe the only exceptions are the hills), that are missing from Plus/4, so the +4 very is more a car racing simulation, than an arcade game. The music is comparable, graphically almost the same, and the speed is better on Plus/4. Because of the missing HW sprites is a very nice achievement. It is even better to compare it to the ZX Spectrum, CPC or MSX with those 3.5 or 4.0 Z80 CPU
Thanks fot your comment my friend! TCF had to dedicate 8kb of screenbuffer because of the lack of sprites! I am very happy that we have a decent racing game on our system after all that years...
@@GeorgesChannel This game is simply great, and one of the best versions exists on 8 bit now. It is fast, nice and sounds great, very good to control. Well, as I told beforehand , the Plus/4 big sibling, the 364 should have been came out with at least 128KB RAM (like the Sinclair 128K in 1985), and there should have been an easy way built in by Commodore to expand the memory (from 16K to 64K, from 64K Plus/4 to the 364's 128K, and maybe from 128KB to 256KB). This could have been the only way to sell the product as a serious "small business PC" like Sinclair QL (QL was hurried and initially was simply too buggy plus microdrive issues). As nor Commodore, nor Sinclair were able to offer a capable "small business PC" with powerful enough word processor, the people turned to the IBM, despite beeeing too expensive. (Apple had not real market here, BBC was too expensive, Amiga was delayed, only ATARI ST could reach certain penetration as a serious computer in DTP, Word processor and as MIDI station) So if that expanded memory would be an easy method, most of us would have 128KB RAM in our machines, and TCFS could have enough memory to add all those elemtns (the Sinclair 128K was able to see only 64KB at once too, like our Hannes expansion).
@@MMSZoli Most companies that had money in the early 80's used green screen mainframes, and the good old fashioned green lined printer paper. The humble C16 was more powerful as a computer lol, even with it's limited memory. And obviously the Plus/4 lost out to the C16 during the commercial era but has since made up for it in it's own neat way. 😉
Sul C64 era è ed è un pezzo di programmazione importante, i Maniacs of Noise ... no more words per uno dei soundtrack che rimarrà nella storia della digitalizzazione ad 8-bit. Sul C16/Plus 4 il miracolo del miracolo.
Very well said! (Translation: On the C64 it was and is an important piece of programming, the Maniacs of Noise ... no more words for one of the soundtracks that will remain in the history of 8-bit digitalisation. On the C16/Plus 4 the miracle of the miracle.)
Yes it has a 121 colour palette to choose from and 60 kb free Basic Ram. But it lacks hardware sprites and Sid sound. Was not ment to be a gaming machine anyway, but more a small business machine for offive stuff. The CPU also runs slightly faster. See the "Stunt Car Racer" Comparison. The C64 is the superior machine though.
C16 was my first computer, always disappointed as friends had C64's. I upgraded it to 64k so basically a +4 which improved things. However, there is no doubt if something like this had come out back in the day I would have been VERY happy!!! Amazing work when you think of the memory etc.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
As a former c64 programmer, it is an amazing bit of coding to get this running on a Plus/4. Magical, even.
Yeah. Still is the CPU not quicker? And in this type of game a tile based approach is less efficient. I mean it’s less size of the moving “sprites” on the other version. And cleared with flat color. So a super performant data copy code for sure
@@litjellyfish It is. On paper. Unfortunately, the processor it is halted while the TED accessing the memory, so only during the border time is near full speed, while the electron beam is drawing the main screen, it is actually slower. Also this means, the processing speed fluctuates regarding where the electron beam is. Of course if you turn off video, it is faster, but then you have no visuals.
@@DaT0nkee ok that is pretty shit. Like a full screen bad line :(
I agree
On the c64 old model is the soundtrack from Maniacs of Noise is brilliant and for me the best. The second c64 model had sound problems with Digi Music. It sounds terrible. You can here the Title Picture track and the Sound Track from Game Title sreen on an other RUclips channel and you will see.....Hears completly better. Fantastic
Thank you for your comment, Daniel
There is a simple mod that involves using a potentiometer across two pins of the SID chip to solve the issue.
Good video. Thanks for the explanation as to why the Plus/4 version is missing some of the graphics like the spinning car.
Thank you! 8kb missing is a lot! Amazing that they pulled it off...
@@GeorgesChannelit is always said that sprites were expensive. C64 guys wasted tons of memory for free directions scrolling. 8kB means 64kBit means 400 kTransistor. This is far more than the 5k in VIC2 or TED. Saving a few registers in the custom chip or the B Akkumulator in the 6502 and accepting the slowdown, which necessitates the buffer, doesn’t also optimize overall transistor count. Heck, it is even cost effective to put part of the zero page on die and have a code cache to fill the CPU up to 5k and run at 2.2 MHz most of the time.
TED does his job very well.
Love the Plus/4 ❤
Thank you for your comment! It really does!
Impressive work on the Plus/4, but Commodore really took a wrong turn with the whole Plus/4, C16, C128 line of computers, they should've gone for the C65 in parallel with the Amiga.
The C64 version has some extra features, and it is not the music! I think the weather with those random sprites did not add too much to the gameplay. The C64 Ferrari rotates much more :-) very realistic. Also, the blocking elements of the road/highway (three lanes, so it should be a kind of highway...) also makes no sense, although it makes the C64 more complex, but less realistic. On C64 you can very (or too) easily pass the police car. I really like the bumps, the up and down hills, that one is missing from the Pluas/4 version
The side objects on the C= Plus/4 move faster, the movement is more fluid. You better feel the speed. From music side Csabo made a miracle, as I do not feel a really big difference to the legendary C64 SID version. Certainly there IS, but the difference is not painful, as usual on the TED. I prefer the visual effect of the turbo on Plus/4.
All in all, most of the parts in C64 added an unreality factor to the games (maybe the only exceptions are the hills), that are missing from Plus/4, so the +4 very is more a car racing simulation, than an arcade game.
The music is comparable, graphically almost the same, and the speed is better on Plus/4.
Because of the missing HW sprites is a very nice achievement.
It is even better to compare it to the ZX Spectrum, CPC or MSX with those 3.5 or 4.0 Z80 CPU
Thanks fot your comment my friend! TCF had to dedicate 8kb of screenbuffer because of the lack of sprites! I am very happy that we have a decent racing game on our system after all that years...
@@GeorgesChannel
This game is simply great, and one of the best versions exists on 8 bit now. It is fast, nice and sounds great, very good to control.
Well, as I told beforehand , the Plus/4 big sibling, the 364 should have been came out with at least 128KB RAM (like the Sinclair 128K in 1985), and there should have been an easy way built in by Commodore to expand the memory (from 16K to 64K, from 64K Plus/4 to the 364's 128K, and maybe from 128KB to 256KB). This could have been the only way to sell the product as a serious "small business PC" like Sinclair QL (QL was hurried and initially was simply too buggy plus microdrive issues).
As nor Commodore, nor Sinclair were able to offer a capable "small business PC" with powerful enough word processor, the people turned to the IBM, despite beeeing too expensive. (Apple had not real market here, BBC was too expensive, Amiga was delayed, only ATARI ST could reach certain penetration as a serious computer in DTP, Word processor and as MIDI station)
So if that expanded memory would be an easy method, most of us would have 128KB RAM in our machines, and TCFS could have enough memory to add all those elemtns (the Sinclair 128K was able to see only 64KB at once too, like our Hannes expansion).
@@MMSZoli Most companies that had money in the early 80's used green screen mainframes, and the good old fashioned green lined printer paper. The humble C16 was more powerful as a computer lol, even with it's limited memory. And obviously the Plus/4 lost out to the C16 during the commercial era but has since made up for it in it's own neat way. 😉
Hmm, the uphill/downhill driving is available in the Plus/4 version as you can see for example at 3:50...
Really cool video mate. Was a c64 owner way back when, but had no idea such graphics and sound could be coaxed out of a plus4!
Thank you for your nice words. The talents release regularly some of these miracles latetly
Sul C64 era è ed è un pezzo di programmazione importante, i Maniacs of Noise ... no more words per uno dei soundtrack che rimarrà nella storia della digitalizzazione ad 8-bit. Sul C16/Plus 4 il miracolo del miracolo.
Very well said! (Translation: On the C64 it was and is an important piece of programming, the Maniacs of Noise ... no more words for one of the soundtracks that will remain in the history of 8-bit digitalisation. On the C16/Plus 4 the miracle of the miracle.)
@@GeorgesChannel yes!!! Thank you for translate :-) Commodore is love for ever.
Was the plus/4 potentially better at doing word/graphic adventures than the C64? The Plus/4 has a larger selection of colours?
Yes it has a 121 colour palette to choose from and 60 kb free Basic Ram. But it lacks hardware sprites and Sid sound. Was not ment to be a gaming machine anyway, but more a small business machine for offive stuff. The CPU also runs slightly faster. See the "Stunt Car Racer" Comparison. The C64 is the superior machine though.
@@GeorgesChannel How is it superior when it has less colors and a slower cpu?
@@Kig_Ama It has hardwaresprites and a synthesizer chip called SID
@@GeorgesChannel Hmmm ok.
@@Kig_Ama Its the superior gaming machine. The plus/4 is better for productivity.
C16 was my first computer, always disappointed as friends had C64's. I upgraded it to 64k so basically a +4 which improved things. However, there is no doubt if something like this had come out back in the day I would have been VERY happy!!! Amazing work when you think of the memory etc.
The plus4 loads at checkpoint....
Looks excellent 👍
Totally agree!
The Commodore Plus/4 was what the Commodore 64 should have been!
The C64 music needs the older SID chip, samples are really quiet. The +4 version is great.
Yes. I also realize this on my c64c
No it doesn't.
Good comparison... And legendary game
Thank you for your positive feedback!
Its a valid entry and kudos to those programmers for pulling it off.
why does the C64 player get much more points than the Plus/4 player?
Good eye..i cutted the c64 video down. And its not i direct port. So there may be some differences
Both better than the amiga version 😂
I REALY LOVE MY C64 ❤❤❤ FOREVER ❤❤❤❤
Of course the C64 version was by Probe.