Will heat pumps work in Britain?
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2024
- Heat pumps - which run on electricity and don’t emit planet-warming carbon dioxide - are likely to be the technology of choice for most homes in Britain as we move towards net zero.
But they don’t always get the best press. Can they ever catch on here, and will they be affordable?
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The irony of a video reporting on the UK's ignorance of heat pumps without ever explaining what a heat pump is. well done sky.
Yep
It pumps heat. Simple as.
@@fell5514 From where to where via what?
From outside your house to inside your house, or vice versa. Via the refrigeration cycle. Exactly the same as an air conditioner, because an air conditioner is a heat pump. Via@@davidz3879
Imagine a fridge with its internal coils out in the street, and its warm coil at the back of it still in the house. The heat pump cools the street to bring the heat to the house. In the process, it brings home 2-5 times more heat than a traditional electric or fossil fuel heater, for each kWh used. The 2-5 value is the COP (coefficient of performance). The COP value depends on the age of the pump and the temperature difference between the cold and the hot sides. Modern heat pumps are much better than 20-30 year old models. The heat pump was invented in the 19th century. It has been used to heat houses since the 1970s. Even portable air conditioners sold in the US have the reverse mode that cools the street and warms the house, much faster and more efficiently than the ceramic heaters ;-).
Trial them at every minister's home throughout winter.
Never happen. Rules for thee but not for me.
they will use there 25,000 expences for having them put in of taxpayers money if they dont like them they will change them again with taxpayers money so why bother and wont cost them a penny
Happy for one to be trialed in my house
Excellent idea they would quite enjoy tax payer funded upgrades, brilliant
Nearly all new homes in Ireland have them. They work just fine.
We use heat pumps in Canadian winters. They are not cheap, but they do the job.
I thought it’s gas operated ?
@@xclusive463 Electric. I live in British Columbia, we have cheap, mostly hydroelectric power.
Air source or ground?
@@Oligodendrocyte139 sits on my back deck, open air intake
@@wolfecanada6726 Sorry, I wasn’t being clear 😀 but it guess this is getting its heat from the air rather than from buried pipes in the ground. Keep warm there!
Lived with one for 3 years in a rental. I thought it was fine and enjoyed the 24/7 heat, although one room would never heat to optimum temp so I had to supplement with an electric heater on occasions. Wouldn't say it cost more than a gas boiler, and it was left on 24/7
Gas per kwh 7.5p. Electric per kwh 30p. Heat pumps can provide 3 times the heat output to the electrical input in optimal conditions effectively 10p per kwh of heat output but only in reasonably warm conditions, there less efficientthe colder it gets. Heat pump systems need larger radiators to compensate for lower water temperatures in the heating system, larger pipes to distribute heating water and houses heated with them need to be upgraded dramatically in regards to insulation. Those are the facts in regards to there usage from someone who's well informed on the subject. Many older houses are just not suited to these types of systems.
If its only in reasonably warm conditions why do they all seem to have them in Scandinavia? Is that a warm climate?
Nice one, that's how they're designed to be run, 24/7.
Everybody that has issues with HP's, from saying they cost too much or they're ineffective, are typically treating them like gas boilers and switching them on and off all the time.
That's why they end up with knackered fans, worn out compressors and massive bills from running them at full power for an hour then switching them off in the mistaken belief that they're saving money. It's commonly why they freeze up as well, because they're working way too hard for too short of a time.
@@carpcrazyboom5190 I don't know many who have heat pumps here in Denmark, some but they are not the norm.
@@carpcrazyboom5190 most issues in the UK are caused by installers who don't know what they are doing. This technology has been used for decades in scandinavia.
Regardless of efficiency or effectiveness the cost does not add up for me. My small semi probably needs additional work even if it's just replacing the radiators and I've no idea where a water tank would fit. Even so, let's say the cost was reduced to £7K and reduced my bill from £90 to £60 per month (combi boiler).
1. I don't have the £7K so would have to take a loan, interest uncertain.
2. It would take almost 19.5 years to recover the initial £7K. Not including interest and assuming energy prices remain the same (unlikely).
3. At 66 years of age it is very unlikely I will see any real benefit.
Yes, I would like to be more environmentally friendly but I simply cannot afford it.
Your not expected to replace a fully working system. Your boiler wount last forever!
Niether will your heat pump@@njipods
Heat pumps are all about very well insulated properties and having a good differentials in temps..
The UK is a much of a muchness, season wise. We used to have 4 well defined seasons when I was younger, but today it can be trimmed down to 2.5 ever close to 2.
We tend to have a lot of older properties per capita head. Most are not suitable for heat pumps, this that are are breaking even at best, but most are costing more than heating oil.. Not to mention gas or electric.
Heat pumps work well in Canada. At least up to -20 degrees Celsius. Colder than that and they tend to not work anymore.
So in short they would have no problems in the UK.
Heat pumps are too expensive. The recovery system used to cost me £80 per week to heat or cool my garden room, which is fully insulated, probably better than any modern home. 🤔🤔
If they work here in northern Sweden, they work in Britain. Just buy the ones designed for colder climate
Your houses are built better, more insulation and under floor heating in some. Not a comparison and your electricity price much much cheaper so again no comparison
Ground floor should be underfloor heating...if not then it wont work as efficiently as it is and it will take hours to heat due to less surface area. Plus Wall insulation is essencial. Dont fall into a trap, insulation is vital.
Insulation is not needed. just a properly designed and commissioned system.
We have heat pump to and its works out much cheaper than gas boiler 👌
Not what my mate says
@@scatters47well I just had one fitted for £915! And the bills are cheaper by far.
if people are afraid of losing their gas boilers (or have newish gas boilers), they can still install a heat pump to get air conditioning in the summer (and support heating in the winter). As I understand it, most people in the UK do not have AC and your summers are getting hot. Heat pumps do both.
I believe the current grant of £7500 only covers a heating system. If cooling is part of the system then it doesn't qualify. If any one else can correct this then please let me know.
I'm planning solar/battery this year and am wonder if a mini spilt AC system would be a better option vs an ASHP to replace the boiler.
Summers aren't hot at all. In 2022, there were 14 days 25c or higher. There were zero days 30c or above. Zero, nil, nought, none, zilch.
No they don't, they only do hot water.
Soo, heat pumps are meant to be better for the environment by providing people with a system they can use all summer too?? 🤔
all air source heat pumps are AC in the summer.@@steve_787
Living in Finland and I have to say I don´t know too many friends or relatives, who DON´T have (air->air usually, or air->water) heatpump. They became quite popular some 15 years ago.
I don´t get it why install an expensive system to heat water with it? In here, most installs are for air->air heatpumps. Most of them. Price for that is 1500-2500, depending on model and size. Heat at winter + colling at summer.
I live in an all electric 2 bed flat. My air source heat pump cost me £2,000 including installation and saves me over £700 a year on my heating. I have no condensation anywhere, all rooms are 21°C, drys my washing on a dryer in about 4 hours and It even collects dust for me. 😂 I clean the filter once every couple of months.
Is that a system with radiators? Was that 2K after the 7.5K grant?
@@adrianthoroughgood1191get this, mine cost £915 and that was with three new radiators, the water tank and all the workings and the heat pump and pipes and everything, took out the old gas boiler and meter and it’s cheaper 💪
I have a ground source heat pump in central Scotland and even with -7 temps I was only £8 a day for ALL of my electricity in a 2 bed. We do not get weather that cold for longer than a week at a time. The problem isn't heat pumps it's bad set ups, like any tech it needs optimised.
This fits with our usage in the Trossachs, which hit £24 a day during the recent cold spell. Ours is a 4 bed detached house. We have ground source and are getting a yield of 3.4 to 1.
What a terrible report. Spent the whole time complaining no one whats heat pumbs cause they don't know enough about them then failed to educate one bit.
Because they don't work.
Currently renovating a property and because of the government grant is simply cheaper to install a new heat pump then it would be to replace the aging backboiler
Meanwhile, the elites are installing log burners and heating their mansions on free fuel chopped down from their vast woodland estates.
It's a shame that the grant is pushing people into a misunderstood system.
I have a heat pump, it's run fine for the last 5 winters. The house is a 60s built 3 bed semi. There are house that this tech would not work well with. But not that many.
They are great and really popular in Sweden where it generally gets a lot colder than the UK
Yep. I have had my since 2005. And never looked back.
Homes in Scandinavia are super insulated plus the electricity comes mainly from Nuclear and Hydro ...unlike the UK where homes are not airtight and electricity mainly comes from gas driven power stations .....
Im always thinking economicly. :) But regards to enviromental concerns. If one for example have coal produced electricy. Then changing from gas to electrical heated heatpump. May be wrose for the enviroment.
Politicans must realize that to get people to change to more enviromently products and services. There must be a economical incentive. Normal people have to pay with they own hard earn money. that is heevily taxed. so the wallet talks first."edited some crappy swenglish spelling. :) @@JamesBond-ns5qg
I lived in a flat in Sweden, there was communal oil heating, people who had houses had stacks of wood. A heatpump cost as much as a house!.
Although many newbuild homes in the UK now comply to the recent changes to building regulations, (conservation of power and energy,) most newbuild homes are still NOT being heated with heatpumps. The UK building regs should have been updated 20 years ago, but I suspect the additional costs to building homes would have impacted sales in the market, and developers shareholders who are government people wouldn't have wanted that!..The energy companies are not trustworthy, and neither the politicians, until energy becomes cheaper, and politicians more honest, the uptake will be minimal.
I have an air source heat pump, works perfect heating a 2700 sq ft house no probs. During this cold weather cost avg £9 per day to run my house, heating and electric. Not so sure retro fitting though ? Ours is an 8 year old house insulated to the last with triple glaze windows. Summary, works fine 👍
Works well in Sweden. But better with a deep gound water well. To connect to the pump.
That is a different system, called 'ground sourced'. The ones being touted in UK are mostly air sourced which is nowhere near as effective or dependable.
I wonder if hanging a series of heating blankets on the walls without gaps would be adequate?
The headlines are anti heat pump. Who benefits from this? The people selling gas.
I've got them in my home and through this cold snap heated my place absolutely fine and lovely just take a few more minutes to warm up.... But I keep it consistent at 15 all day and turn it up 20 for 3 hours at night.... It's great... Always have a bath and heats the water up perfect and to a fine temp as well as really hot shower water..... I love it with my solar panels it's cheap as anything in summer about 25 a month to 30 in summer and 60 last month this month on track for about 80 but will hardly be in use all summer so will save loads in a year they really are great no gas bills all electric
Why lie though?
@@CJones-99 genuinely not only been in property since July I was sceptical at first but mine really is good just my opinion on smart meter so always check how much I use mine really is good I have the valient one
Same here. Poorly insulated 60s house and my monthly bill is 80/month for the last 3 years. Heat pump at scop around 4, so cheaper than gas. Small solar array does export a lot in the summer, covering the cold winter snaps. And under RHI the whole system was less than 3k, including a full unvented system upgrade. The haters can hate, but we're warm 24/7 for 80 quid a month 🤣
@@Loopyengineeringco 👍
I am a heating engineer and have never once had an enquiry about weather I fit heat pumps but I’ve had 5 different phone calls in the last year or so about coming round to take the heat pump out and get them back to a gas boiler🤷♂️ and that’s coming from people who’ve spent a fortune on them and lived with them🤷♂️
Were the houses well insulated and airtight?
@@shaneheff5244yes all 5 had said that they had the insulation done ready for it but still weren’t warm enough🤷♂️ air tight houses are not a good idea🤦♂️ I’m not saying heat pumps don’t work at all but just won’t work in probably 60-80% of existing buildings
@dombarnes7092 wonder what the issue was with them so?
I find your comment suspect .... as in I do NOT believe this.
@julierogers1155 I'm interested in hearing the reasons for taking them out. I'm surprised.
That heat pump is located in the incorrect place "It's too close to the opened window" Installer should of read the manual.
Is the UK only looking at heat pumps now? Been used for a few years in Ireland. Heat pumps are only effective if the house has been very well insulated. They are also expensive to run in times of extreme cold.
If heat pumps worked and are more economical to run than gas everyone would have them by now, what strain is these pumps and electric cars going to put on the electricity grid the power cables in the roads will all need upgrading including the power stations. How are we going to use the largest new oil gas field recently found off Scotland, sell it abroad like last time no doubt.
A nice advert, but as an ex heat pump user, I'm not convinced.
We had one too in a rental. Was great but very on or off.. And constant breakdown s.
Happy for them to "force" me to have one as long as I don't have to pay!
its expensive but they're more reliable then gas companies Planned obsolescence boilers, my flats all electric though so I don't need any boilers or heaters only a water boiler
"more reliable then gas companies"
Insolution is even more reliable.
It would be helpful if the government grants for heat pumps covered air-to-air instead of focusing solely on air-to-water systems, which are far more expensive and often aren't suitable for every home....is someone in charge of the grants getting a backhander for this nonsensical decision?
Also, it would be great if there was a unified accredation for HP system installation. Way too many cowboy firms fitting HP's after minimal training and screwing it up, but taking the grants.
air to air isn't covered because of their cooling mode. Why should the tax payer fund someone's air con? It's a luxury.
@Loopyengineeringco it's a luxury... for now. Seriously though, heating/cooling with air has been around for decades in the US and is used everywhere in the commercial buildings. It is more convenient than the ugly radiators or slow underfloor heating. And it should be integrated with the heat recovery ventilation for max comfort and efficiency.
Just disable the cooling mode then
Wood is cheaper in the countryside.No-one will notice on the cold winter nights.
Ah, deforestation.
So the sky guy appears to be laughing at the people who can't afford to pay for one? So the government and opposition millionaires (who live in countryside mansions), they have heat pumps yes? In their country homes?
It's currently 28C in my living room, I had to open the patio doors to cool it off bit. It's -5 outside. Wood burner on low. Green renewable energy.
I do need to put my boiler on and check it still works after 3 months ;-)
I do when I have to open my door to be greeted by a load of particulates - lovely
I heat my 425sqm home with wet UFH driven by a heat pump, Love it
I have fitted them and can say they are absolutely rubbish
I've had a heat pump for 7 years and regret it, the RHI grant I got was not paid up front, it was paid quarterly and i was told it would cover 25% to 30% of the £13000 cost, I received about £800 over the 7years, the grant stops at 7years.
The running cost and mantainance are higher than my old system and the house isn't as comfortable.
Clearly your system was hugely malfunctioning or incorrectly set up. the RHI is biased on efficiency. It's easy to tell it's not working as the payments are so low!
My heat pump system is 8 years old and the RHI paid me back over £4.5K. Underfloor ground floor and rads upstairs. The running efficiency is lower when it's minus C outside but that can be offset by raising the flow temps. Works well in my 100 year old house with plenty of insulation.
What an absolute joke. A heat pump is far more efficient and cheaper than a gas boiler for heating 😂
The issue is the up front cost.
I installed a Vaillant Heat Pump in my new house 4 years ago. So I've now had four winters which have gone down to -7C for several days each January/February. We've had no problems keeping VERY warm and all our visitors comment about house nice the temperature is throughout the house.
Many Gas engineers just don't want to change to Heat Pumps because they need less maintenance. Mine cost less than £10k including a 400litre hot water tank, fully installed. So after the grants it's about £2.5k. We are well insulated but they also work in older houses.
A friend in the same village who has a 200 year old house with solid stone walls installed one two years ago. He had to upgrade a couple of radiators but used all the old piping and most of the old rads. He's very pleased and so am I.
There's so much misinformation about them it makes me laugh,
Ive been trying to apply for a government grant on boiler im struggling to get it each time ive been rejected this heat pump is good sadly well out of my range
Look up Octopus Energy heat pumps and get a quote. Mine was £2500 fully installed.
Absolutely fascinating…
Who's paying the electric bill ?
The gov should also support battery storage with heat pumps so your electricity costs are affordable
We need a cartoon like ’when the wind blows’. Perhaps we could call it ‘When the water rises’ and show a few cities in USA, China and India.
Why arent they encouraging infrared heating panels?
Because heat pumps have cheeper running costs
Could a home owner have both. A gas boiler could be a useful backup option if the heat pump breaks and an engineer cannot fix the issue. Would insurance companies cover the cost of a repair or replacement heat pump if the existing one couldn’t be fixed. I’m open to the idea of a heat pump but I would also want to keep my existing gas boiler just in case.
You'd be paying twice and that is a crazy amount of money to burn. A heat pump has two moving parts and should be FAR more reliable than a boiler. Costs will reduce as volumes increase.
We have a heat pump and it’s brilliant but we also have a log burner which heats the house up to a point of we have to let it burn out cos it’s so hot, house is ten years old and has so much insulation
They will work but only in certain property types. Old properties and flats no
I live in a rental and it has two old economy 7 storage heaters, if I put them on before I go to bed my smart meter is reading £12-£13 when I wake up at 7am. Its not a viable way to heat my home, I cant afford £500 a month electricity bills as a single guy so I now have no heating apart from a portable oil heater which is also costly
Get a better job.
@@Joe-og6br Thanks man
heat pumps are not storage heaters. they are 3 to 4 times more efficient so in theory 3 to 4 times cheaper to run. Doesn't help much in a rental
@@ice4142 I know they arent, I was just moaning about my heating costs
No sky it's absolutely crazy,
I get the feeling that a lot of people on here are just gas engineers afraid of losing work
Nope… well… it depends. If it’s for a swimming pool to be used in the summer… yes. If it’s for heating during the winter, the COP drops off significantly & makes it far more expensive than gas.
Correct.
Efficency must be calculated correctly.
Below freezing the efficiency is the same as a normal electric boiler. So depends on how many days a year below freezing one have.
Every other house in Sweden has a heatpump of some sort.
Due to where I live. I have a groundwell connected to the pump. Gives 3+ degrees to the pump on days even if its -32. Drawback is on days its warmer than 3+ outside. A airpump would be more effective.
One have to size the system to where one lives. And also take in account for how Well insulated the house is.
Get a proper engineer that can do both the numbers and a correct system.
Lots of golddiggers out there
@@RocketSailing calculations are being made based on theoretical, not practical measurements. COP on many heat pumps falls below that which it states. Given the initial outlay & comparative cost of gas CH, there’s no comparison. It’s also less environmentally friendly as the electricity still comes from gas powered stations.
@@RocketSailing I’m in the uk & they’re being sold here as replacements for gas boilers. Theoretical COP vs actual COP differ significantly & depends on make, model, age, condition, etc., but, in general, domestic households in the UK are paying more for their energy by going with air source heat pump solutions. Ground source is a completely different ball game here where the cost of drilling would wipe out any financial benefits.
Such small units 😮
The wman is for a rude awakening, it doesnt cut the cost of energy bills……
Yes it does.
@@fell5514no it don't.
Yes it does.@@scatters47
Get government out of our pockets and off our backs.
Let people decide how to spend their earned money, dont take it from them and gove it back on the condition they spend it on whatever the government wants
why a sweedish company?
I have three air sourced heat pumps, they all clog up with ice as soon as the outside temperature gets to zero or near zero degrees celsius. This is down to the damp atmosphere we have in the UK, may be fine in Sweden or the like with very dry cold but that is not what we have here in the UK most of the time. And if any of these heat pump advocates want to argue the case I have photographs of the heat pump coils covered in ice.
It's an eye sore in the garden
Nice to see that Tom has a side job selling heat pumps.
Yep, wonder if he has one fitted in his home. My guess is...nope.
Opposite me are several housing assoc properties that were installed with heat pumps about 3 years ago, I don't think there has been a month passed without an engineers van parked outside sorting another issue with the systems. That alone puts me off, its fine for the council to run up bills fixing these systems as they have unlimited resources thanks to taxpaying mugs but for private landlords these costs would be prohibitive.
Youll need to come back in a years time to see how theyre getting on!
Peter went against his golf club friends and got a heat pump. Now I’m shelling out 13k for one too 😴
I was forced to have one.. It uses about £8 a day and I have to have a blanket.
When the boss of British gas just got a 3.3 million bonus in 2022 unless gas companies get a slice of heatpump pie it won't happen
700 000 / year
! Goodbye England
Retro-fitting heat pumps is a nightmare. It is also driven by deeply flawed assumptions about the way the Great British public lead their lives. If we aim to have all of our living space warmed to ‘shirt-sleeves comfortable’ all the time, then the improved insulation and much, much bigger radiators may be worth the cost and hassle. For those of us (the great majority) who wish to use heating flexibly, a condensing gas boiler will take a lot of beating. I consume about one-third of the energy that I am ‘supposed’ to use because I only heat rooms that I happen to be in at the time. This isn’t practical for heat pump installations as they take many hours to bring any given room up to temperature.
Yes
Pete could do with a few more acting lessons.
They need to be installed in all public and government buildings first. Prove that they both work and are cheaper to run before pushing this complex tech into people homes. How will insurance cover work with heat pumps given their are few technical engineers trained to diagnose and fix heat pumps let alone install them correctly.
Listen...my neighbours gas boiler is keeping me awake at night. Please donate them a heat pump.
That'll be even worse.. the noise.
Gas combi boilers do not need space consuming hot water cylinders.
Large heat pumps are unsuitable for millions of flats.
How do heat pumps in tenement flats work .
Unless a house is specifically designed to be heated with a heatpump they can only ever provide additional heat along side a gas boiler or conventional alternative
Total nonsense.
Nonsense
This is a myth!
@@njipods it's a fact. See above for why. Care to dispute anything specific based on real world expertise? Feel free to raise it. Be specific though don't just be a no mark eco influencer 🤷♂️
Block the condenser off in winter and she will be sweet
Where i work we had heat pumps installed, guess what...they stopped working this week as it was too cold, cant make this up 😅
House with sub standard insulation will fail with a heat pump.
The government needs to address the installation costs not just provide a subsidy which results in the supplier bumping up the overall price. This is not rocket science and the government should set a maximum hourly rate for heat pump suppliers if they want wide spread adoption otherwise people will still get fleeced by the installers. This level is 'engineering' work should be no more that £30 an hour.
I was told by my heating engineer that he had been to a talk and was told that only 2% of the uk
houses were able to except heat pump heating without serious building work being required
Only 2% of houses in the UK can have a two inch hole drilled in the wall?
Yes. Traditional boiler manufacturers are putting on conferences and telling people heat pumps don't work!
Caulking silicon mortar. Plastic pre 90 no plastic. Just deal with cold
Or get an electric combi boiler costs from 1k
Why are we still asking the silly question, "Will heat pump work in Britain". Of course it works everywhere.
Noisy, blows cold air first and more expensive in monthly cost vs gas furnace.
15k here though.
Come just do what the government wants !
The gentleman in the video saying his house is warmer must know that has absolutely nothing to do with the boiler/heat pump and everything to do with what temperature your thermostat is set to?!? Ignorance....
The idea is that a heat pump in a well insulated house is on continuously on to maintain a constant warm temperature. An old boiler could be set to come on earlier in the morning of course but that would be more expensive.
Man said that’s what his wife thinks....
Who cares, he gets to walk around naked in the mornings
So his thermostat is set higher and, as he said, he pays less. Isn't it a win-win?
Lmfao it’s not cheaper to run than gas!
For many it is.
We have one, in UK, it’s just been -3 degrees C here overnight, we woke up at 4am because it was too hot. Had to turn down the radiator.
They are more than fine.
If they’re so brilliant, why are they pushing them so desperately? We all know that (Like EVs), they are going to have to force people to have them.
Not efficiently, no.
I will never switch to heat pump unless i have no choice
No is the answer. They are fundamentally flawed.
What about people living in flats?
Just had 1 fitted, its costing 50 quid a day so it is coming back out, be warned people🤷♂️
£ 13000 for a heat pump for an average-sized house?
£500 to £2500 from Octopus Energy, fully installed. Look it up.
One slight problem is noise from the pumps they do get louder over time and imagine a full street having them lol
not the newer ones
No, they really are not loud....
It is more a problem in the summer, if they are used for cooling too.
@@williamforsyth6667 That only applies to Air to Air systems as air to water aren't used for cooling .
Two British RUclips channels on plumbing and heat pump installation:
- www.youtube.com/@HeatGeek
- www.youtube.com/@UrbanPlumbers
no. be better off installing air con everywhere
Didn't say a word about lack of skilled people to install and maintain these heat pumps, installations are done poorly in majority of cases with a few exceptions of excellent installers. Having to learn how to use the system is the first sign of it being bad. I don't need to learn how to use a heating system, it should just work. Do I need to know how the car works? No, I just drive it and fuel up when needed, simple, and does not cost 4x more for the privilege
I really don't think that lady is going to be happy with her bills. Unless she has PV it'll just be close to what the gas is if not more
Not in my house they won’t she will regret that heat pump just wait till the severe weather kicks in
I refuse to have a smart meter so good luck getting a heat pump on my house 🖕🏼
Yes. They are used all the time in Norway, Finland etc for decades. Heat pumps are not new technology by any means.
No they won't work in most houses is the simple answer