It’s now suspected that the throttle friction wasn’t tightened enough to keep the power full on and the pilot was a jump in and fly type. No checks were audible and the plane took off 7 minutes after spooling up. WAY too soon to have performed the checks. The throttle tension is on the checklist because it resulted in death previously and likely in this instance too. 71 yr old pilot was known to skip checks. He won’t skip any more!
His propeller became an airbrake because he didn’t feather the prop in time. Based on the other evidence he was in a steep angle of attack or Vx on rotation. I never pitch up too high in multi engine. There is a speed called blue line that must be exceeded at all times. Anytime there is an abrupt turning anomaly on takeoff roll shut both engines down and land straight ahead. This is critical in multi engine flying if you have an engine failure on takeoff roll.
Sky Flyer impossible. Modern PT6 engines use oil pressure to turn the props in beta range. There is a pitch lock regulator that prevents the prop from going in to flat pitch in an event of oil pressure loss. Based on the 737 max I wouldn’t doubt there are design flaws in the new 350i. I really want to see the final ntsb report.
Tragedy. Can't imagine the horror felt during the roll. Would rather fly in a Socata TBM or Pilatus if it has to be a turboprop instead of twin engines like this King Air.
YIKES.. the left engine had trouble and the right engine's torque made the plane roll over and crash. The King Air 350 was very heavy with 10 passengers and luggage. The pilot didn't have much time to make any corrections. RIP to all lost.... When was the last annual inspection and was there engine tune up or repairs??
@Gage Engine Failure During Takeoff (At or Above V1) for King Air B200 1. Power - MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE 2. Airspeed - MAINTAIN TAKEOFF SPEED OR ABOVE 3. Landing Gear - UP 4. Propeller (Inop engine) - CONFIRM AUTOFEATHER or FEATHER 5. Airspeed - V2 (after obstacles cleared, Vyse) There are procedures for plenty engine failure situations so I'm certain it's not an automatic crash when you lose an engine. I think feathering is the key but I'm no pilot so this might be wrong.
Takeoff at MTOW with a Twin-Engine Aircraft is a Critical Stage of Flight. You have to practice in your mind how you're going to respond to an Engine Failure at that stage of Flight. When you receive your Twin-Engine rating these are exactly the kind of circumstances you train for. You have just a few short seconds to respond correctly, or this is the end result.
@Gage The King Air has Auto-Feather on engine failure. It's not really the engine torque or twist that makes the plane Snap Roll or VMC Roll or VMC Stall or whatever people want to call it. It has to do with the fact that, in this case, as the plane yawed to the left more and more of the engine out wing is covered or blocked by fuselage and thus its lift capabilities become less and less. You can see in the crash video the plane is skidding or yawing horribly. It gets to the point that the left wing is blocked so much that it looses its lift and stalls and the right wing snaps the aircraft over with all its lift intact. Also, as the plane yaws more and more the fuselage side surface starts adding drag and slowing down the plane taking you below VMC or the Minimum Control Speed. If you have full rudder in then you know your about to snap roll. It's a terrible balancing act of getting bank into the running engine side and rudder. Plus, the gear down did nothing to help matters. All that being said he only had 12 seconds from liftoff and 8 seconds from when they recognized an engine issue before impact. Plus, here could have been other factors or causes leading up to that moment. Heck, a rudder trim tab set wrong could be the cause and the pilots just thought it was the engine.
I can tell you what I would've done, and I don't even have a Pilots License. I've begun my takeoff roll and I've reached takeoff speed and rotated. I'm beyond the point of abort. Suddenly there's a loss of thrust on one engine. In a second determine which engine it is, then quickly change your trim settings to make your control surfaces more responsive. by the 3rd second, Pitch the Nose down level to keep forward speed up. Begin a shallow bank and rudder turn away from the dead engine. This will give you a feeling right away of how the plane and controls are responding to Asymmetric thrust. Your landing gear is Fast Acting, hit the gear up by the 6th second. A shallow bank away from the dead engine also keeps your wing with the dead engine from Stalling. by the 8th second you should be in a shallow climb and / or leveling off and flying on one engine, preparing yourself for a mayday go around and landing. And if you're really good and prepare yourself, you can compress that all down to 4 or 5 seconds and look like a Hero / Pro, instead of killing all on board.
I have a fairly generic question that maybe others are asking or thinking. So we reach V1, rotate and have a positive climb rate albeit not for long. 1. At what point did the port motor fail? Before V1, during V1 or right after they lifted off? 2. At what point does a PIC call for gear or raise the gear themselves? Directly after takeoff, or at a certain height or speed? From a laymen it seems the gear down would 100% cause more drag thus slowing them more rapidly especially with the port motor being down. Could have calling for gear up given the flight crew that extra speed they needed to extend and gain a positive rate of climb vs scrubbing more speed eventually causing a stall Thanks for your comments and feedbsck. Prayers to the family and friends of the people onboard. Very sad.
IT was all pilot error, failure to use checklists and mainly failure to set the throttle friction. They experienced left throttle migration, didn't recognize it, the pilot applied left rudder and then right, but it was too late. He was apparently known to fly without checklists and it cost them all their lives.
This is just a very very sad statement of reality we live everyday!!! Not enough pilot training, not enough preflights, not enough walk arounds and not enough limitations on who gets a pilots license. This crash was avoidable!! If one can not make the vehicle in which they are operating a part of their soul, of their being or become one with the instrument of travel, then do NOT get in the operators seat!!! If you don't have time to preflight for safety, then when do you have time to do so after a crash!!?? EXACTLY!!!!!!
Seem like the right engine was on fire just seconds before flipping over and hitting the ground! I've also heard that they where over the gross limit weight of the plane. So there was no way a single engine could handle the load. Seems to me that the weight limit should be restricted to what one engine can handle.
First: WOW!! Worst CFI ever as a commentator on an accident, “at some point you become a passenger.” What kind of pilotage are you teaching? You don’t stop flying the aircraft because things aren’t working right!!! Hopefully with his next BFR the FAA will weed this terrible CFI out. Second: How did CFI commentator of the year see right past the obvious? These pilots had things going wrong, BUT yet the aircraft was still flying. More than likely the pilots saw the hanger approaching, increased their pitch (fearing they weren’t going to clear the hanger), slowed below Vmc, and yes at that point like CFI Yeager stated “something went wrong.” My prayers are for the souls on board, may they Rest In Peace, as well as the witnesses on the ground that have been traumatized by this accident. p.s. Pilot’s watching this video, do yourself and your passengers a favor: Don’t stop trying to fly the aircraft and work the problem. Good CRM and good systems knowledge will get you a long way.
I don't think when he said "there is a point where you become a passenger", he was talking about the situation being unmanageable. Because pilots are trained to deal with this situation, and he as a CFI knows that. I think he's talking about pilot ability, or rather, these pilots lack of it. And it makes sense really. First, if a pilot does not know how to quickly handle an emergency situation like this, then soon the situation could deteriorate to the point it becomes unrecoverable. And second, even if they figured out what was going on, did they truly know what to do? Because they could've very well handled the situation improperly, not taking proper emergency procedures, crashing is pretty much inevitable, and at that point you might as well have been a passenger for all the difference your actions made. So before you go around hoping this guy loses his job, I suggest you truly analyze what he is saying, rather than interpreting it very literally, and therefore incorrectly. And if you think that he's truly "Worst CFI ever", I suggest you watch the Air Safety Institute's video "Accident Case Study: Everyone's Problem ". You'll be in for quite a shock.
Obsolete Collector My comment comes from my 20 years of commercial flying. Never in my private days or now in my commercial career has an instructor said that it’s okay to become a passenger. The instruction has literally been to “fly the aircraft” and keep working the problem. My training normally has something that limits the performance of the aircraft and requires me to think, act quickly, keep flying the aircraft, OR crash. For example, I’ve had props fail to feather, high altitude on a hot day t max gross takeoff with an engine failure, and cold days with icing and a single engine or failed system. And yes, if you don’t react properly you will crash. But that’s why you rehearse this stuff. And why you can’t become a passenger. To your second paragraph, every six months I am required to handle an emergency similar to this. The PIC on that flight is to do the same thing, real world is obviously more stressful than a simulator, but his knowledge of what to do should have been there. An example from what I can see in this video is that he hadn’t retracted his gear yet, why didn’t the CFI in this video bring that up as a cause for his accident? Because he’s a terrible CFI!!! He’d rather scare people about the dangers of flying and how he’s the best than give a thorough brief on what he can tell from the sidelines. He needs to lose his job or have a good dressing down by the POI that is over his Flight School. The old adage is “Aviate, Navigate, and then Communicate”, nowhere does it say resign yourself and the people that have entrusted their lives to your hands to just sit back and die. This CFI just made that announcement on this news broadcast, it’s okay to give up. He’s fear mongering for the sake of getting in front of the camera. I watched your suggested video. How does a GA pilot doing what GA pilots do compare to what should have been a trained professional in the King Air? What I gathered was the CFI in this news story will teach his students to act like the GA pilot in the Piper Arrow, do things outside of the design of their airframe, get themselves into trouble, BUT (because he taught them) today they will become passengers and die. Not a great teacher, he’s the CFI from your video suggestion that is the bad apple. My suggested video to you is “Aviate, Navigate, Communicate - by Jeremy Stone” His video is more on par with what this professional pilots recurrent is like every six months.
It’s now suspected that the throttle friction wasn’t tightened enough to keep the power full on and the pilot was a jump in and fly type. No checks were audible and the plane took off 7 minutes after spooling up. WAY too soon to have performed the checks. The throttle tension is on the checklist because it resulted in death previously and likely in this instance too. 71 yr old pilot was known to skip checks. He won’t skip any more!
Tough to watch.
His propeller became an airbrake because he didn’t feather the prop in time. Based on the other evidence he was in a steep angle of attack or Vx on rotation. I never pitch up too high in multi engine. There is a speed called blue line that must be exceeded at all times.
Anytime there is an abrupt turning anomaly on takeoff roll shut both engines down and land straight ahead. This is critical in multi engine flying if you have an engine failure on takeoff roll.
Sky Flyer impossible. Modern PT6 engines use oil pressure to turn the props in beta range. There is a pitch lock regulator that prevents the prop from going in to flat pitch in an event of oil pressure loss.
Based on the 737 max I wouldn’t doubt there are design flaws in the new 350i.
I really want to see the final ntsb report.
Tragedy. Can't imagine the horror felt during the roll. Would rather fly in a Socata TBM or Pilatus if it has to be a turboprop instead of twin engines like this King Air.
YIKES.. the left engine had trouble and the right engine's torque made the plane roll over and crash.
The King Air 350 was very heavy with 10 passengers and luggage. The pilot didn't have much time to make any corrections. RIP to all lost.... When was the last annual inspection and was there engine tune up or repairs??
stop acting like u know shit it was most likely huma error like most plane crashes
@Gage Engine Failure During Takeoff (At or Above V1) for King Air B200
1. Power - MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE
2. Airspeed - MAINTAIN TAKEOFF SPEED OR ABOVE
3. Landing Gear - UP
4. Propeller (Inop engine) - CONFIRM AUTOFEATHER or FEATHER
5. Airspeed - V2 (after obstacles cleared, Vyse)
There are procedures for plenty engine failure situations so I'm certain it's not an automatic crash when you lose an engine. I think feathering is the key but I'm no pilot so this might be wrong.
Takeoff at MTOW with a Twin-Engine Aircraft is a Critical Stage of Flight. You have to practice in your mind how you're going to respond to an
Engine Failure at that stage of Flight. When you receive your Twin-Engine rating these are exactly the kind of circumstances you train for.
You have just a few short seconds to respond correctly, or this is the end result.
@Gage The King Air has Auto-Feather on engine failure.
It's not really the engine torque or twist that makes the plane Snap Roll or VMC Roll or VMC Stall or whatever people want to call it. It has to do with the fact that, in this case, as the plane yawed to the left more and more of the engine out wing is covered or blocked by fuselage and thus its lift capabilities become less and less. You can see in the crash video the plane is skidding or yawing horribly. It gets to the point that the left wing is blocked so much that it looses its lift and stalls and the right wing snaps the aircraft over with all its lift intact. Also, as the plane yaws more and more the fuselage side surface starts adding drag and slowing down the plane taking you below VMC or the Minimum Control Speed. If you have full rudder in then you know your about to snap roll. It's a terrible balancing act of getting bank into the running engine side and rudder. Plus, the gear down did nothing to help matters. All that being said he only had 12 seconds from liftoff and 8 seconds from when they recognized an engine issue before impact. Plus, here could have been other factors or causes leading up to that moment. Heck, a rudder trim tab set wrong could be the cause and the pilots just thought it was the engine.
I can tell you what I would've done, and I don't even have a Pilots License.
I've begun my takeoff roll and I've reached takeoff speed and rotated. I'm beyond the point of abort. Suddenly there's a loss of thrust on one engine. In a second determine which engine it is, then quickly change your trim settings to make your control surfaces more responsive.
by the 3rd second, Pitch the Nose down level to keep forward speed up. Begin a shallow bank and rudder turn away from the dead engine. This will give you a feeling right away of how the plane and controls are responding to Asymmetric thrust.
Your landing gear is Fast Acting, hit the gear up by the 6th second.
A shallow bank away from the dead engine also keeps your wing with the dead engine from Stalling.
by the 8th second you should be in a shallow climb and / or leveling off and flying on one engine, preparing yourself for a mayday go around and landing.
And if you're really good and prepare yourself,
you can compress that all down to 4 or 5 seconds and look like a Hero / Pro, instead of killing all on board.
I have a fairly generic question that maybe others are asking or thinking.
So we reach V1, rotate and have a positive climb rate albeit not for long.
1. At what point did the port motor fail? Before V1, during V1 or right after they lifted off?
2. At what point does a PIC call for gear or raise the gear themselves? Directly after takeoff, or at a certain height or speed? From a laymen it seems the gear down would 100% cause more drag thus slowing them more rapidly especially with the port motor being down. Could have calling for gear up given the flight crew that extra speed they needed to extend and gain a positive rate of climb vs scrubbing more speed eventually causing a stall
Thanks for your comments and feedbsck.
Prayers to the family and friends of the people onboard.
Very sad.
IT was all pilot error, failure to use checklists and mainly failure to set the throttle friction. They experienced left throttle migration, didn't recognize it, the pilot applied left rudder and then right, but it was too late. He was apparently known to fly without checklists and it cost them all their lives.
This is just a very very sad statement of reality we live everyday!!! Not enough pilot training, not enough preflights, not enough walk arounds and not enough limitations on who gets a pilots license. This crash was avoidable!! If one can not make the vehicle in which they are operating a part of their soul, of their being or become one with the instrument of travel, then do NOT get in the operators seat!!! If you don't have time to preflight for safety, then when do you have time to do so after a crash!!?? EXACTLY!!!!!!
Seem like the right engine was on fire just seconds before flipping over and hitting the ground!
I've also heard that they where over the gross limit weight of the plane. So there was no way a single engine could handle the load. Seems to me that the weight limit should be restricted to what one engine can handle.
That was just glint from the propeller
The gear was still.down weight and balance you have to practice engine out all the time espically that low to the ground
Who was on the airplane????
there were 10 people on board
It was not a charter flight, some people onboard were related.
First: WOW!! Worst CFI ever as a commentator on an accident, “at some point you become a passenger.” What kind of pilotage are you teaching? You don’t stop flying the aircraft because things aren’t working right!!! Hopefully with his next BFR the FAA will weed this terrible CFI out.
Second: How did CFI commentator of the year see right past the obvious? These pilots had things going wrong, BUT yet the aircraft was still flying. More than likely the pilots saw the hanger approaching, increased their pitch (fearing they weren’t going to clear the hanger), slowed below Vmc, and yes at that point like CFI Yeager stated “something went wrong.”
My prayers are for the souls on board, may they Rest In Peace, as well as the witnesses on the ground that have been traumatized by this accident.
p.s. Pilot’s watching this video, do yourself and your passengers a favor: Don’t stop trying to fly the aircraft and work the problem. Good CRM and good systems knowledge will get you a long way.
I don't think when he said "there is a point where you become a passenger", he was talking about the situation being unmanageable. Because pilots are trained to deal with this situation, and he as a CFI knows that.
I think he's talking about pilot ability, or rather, these pilots lack of it. And it makes sense really. First, if a pilot does not know how to quickly handle an emergency situation like this, then soon the situation could deteriorate to the point it becomes unrecoverable. And second, even if they figured out what was going on, did they truly know what to do? Because they could've very well handled the situation improperly, not taking proper emergency procedures, crashing is pretty much inevitable, and at that point you might as well have been a passenger for all the difference your actions made.
So before you go around hoping this guy loses his job, I suggest you truly analyze what he is saying, rather than interpreting it very literally, and therefore incorrectly.
And if you think that he's truly "Worst CFI ever", I suggest you watch the Air Safety Institute's video "Accident Case Study: Everyone's Problem
". You'll be in for quite a shock.
Obsolete Collector My comment comes from my 20 years of commercial flying. Never in my private days or now in my commercial career has an instructor said that it’s okay to become a passenger. The instruction has literally been to “fly the aircraft” and keep working the problem. My training normally has something that limits the performance of the aircraft and requires me to think, act quickly, keep flying the aircraft, OR crash. For example, I’ve had props fail to feather, high altitude on a hot day t max gross takeoff with an engine failure, and cold days with icing and a single engine or failed system. And yes, if you don’t react properly you will crash. But that’s why you rehearse this stuff. And why you can’t become a passenger.
To your second paragraph, every six months I am required to handle an emergency similar to this. The PIC on that flight is to do the same thing, real world is obviously more stressful than a simulator, but his knowledge of what to do should have been there. An example from what I can see in this video is that he hadn’t retracted his gear yet, why didn’t the CFI in this video bring that up as a cause for his accident? Because he’s a terrible CFI!!! He’d rather scare people about the dangers of flying and how he’s the best than give a thorough brief on what he can tell from the sidelines.
He needs to lose his job or have a good dressing down by the POI that is over his Flight School. The old adage is “Aviate, Navigate, and then Communicate”, nowhere does it say resign yourself and the people that have entrusted their lives to your hands to just sit back and die. This CFI just made that announcement on this news broadcast, it’s okay to give up. He’s fear mongering for the sake of getting in front of the camera.
I watched your suggested video. How does a GA pilot doing what GA pilots do compare to what should have been a trained professional in the King Air? What I gathered was the CFI in this news story will teach his students to act like the GA pilot in the Piper Arrow, do things outside of the design of their airframe, get themselves into trouble, BUT (because he taught them) today they will become passengers and die. Not a great teacher, he’s the CFI from your video suggestion that is the bad apple.
My suggested video to you is “Aviate, Navigate, Communicate - by Jeremy Stone” His video is more on par with what this professional pilots recurrent is like every six months.
stall 101