I don’t even have a door conceived child and found that Netflix series disturbing, especially because of how many children are half siblings in such a small area (not to mention worldwide). It’ll be so many generations affected, not just the immediate children.
Personally, I think there’s something very wrong with people who are “serial donors.” This isn’t a donor situation but the thing you mentioned about meeting half siblings in real life is 100% true. I met my half brother in college and while I didn’t feel attracted to him in the traditional sense, I felt this weird need to be around him all the time. Mutual friends even tried to set us up. As we got to know each other things started lining up. We were originally from the same counties, we knew we were both related to some cousins of mine ect. A few more questions later, the family secrets poured out.
It is so needed that sperm banks make a international database of all donors around the world, one that would be used by all of them. Only this way(or something similar) would stop these incidents from happening. It's so creepy that he was just going around the world to donate.
what a chad(and yes im a woman). isnt it your choice to become a mother of BASTARDS or is it not? stop crying. stop blaming men over your mistakes. when men decide to stop donating sperm out of fear of being SUED for DONATING SPERM dont cry like btches. im saying this as a girl, godless women will always be the GOBLINS of societies
It made me really think about all the rules around women’s reproductive rights compared to men! Generally women are expected to have birth control yet they can only have 1 pregnancy in 9/10 months (I’m aware there should be a bigger gap, so it’s probably more 12-13 months but just trying to look at the basic data), men COULD produce 1 pregnancy every single day (technically they could probably produce 3-5 pregnancies a day!!) so just looking at the numbers, that should be much more of a concern!! I’m not saying we should govern people’s right to reproduce, but I do think we need to shift towards preventing pregnancy from the male side as they can make so many more potential babies than women can!
I agree but my worry here would be that if male contraception was a thing (other than condoms and the likes) we might end up with more people like this guy - saying he's on birth control when he isn't. And it doesn't affect them, it affects the women so women will still be the ones to *need* the birth control. But I agree, both should definitely have the options
Regulating a man's ability to reproduce is the most draconian thing I can imagine. That is beyond disturbing. I mean what are you actually suggesting here and have you thought deeply about the consequences of what you are pushing for. I understand what you're trying to argue for but that ain't it.
Also most men aren't THAT attractive to be able to even realistically replicate what this man did. Hell there are entire forums full of losers who can't get a date, let alone impregnate a woman.
I can’t believe this can happen and there is nothing to protect women. This does feel slightly s:x offender behavior. The ambition to get so many women pregnant through deception is not normal behavior. Glad you talked about this topic
Exactly, especially since some of the children were conceived via intercourse which the woman likely wouldn’t have consented to if she knew he had thousands of kids already, I think it’s grounds for a sexual assault case. He’s manipulating and lying for his own sexual pleasure.
Frightening story, I really hope it’s not a common thing the donors are doing. I agree they need to have tighter regulations without increasing the cost for the families needing to access the service. I hope the donation banks are open to making their systems interconnected and also allowing siblings to contact one another early. I have been contemplating donor conception for starting my own family, but it’s not hugely accessible in Australia. They have just begun a public fertility clinic, which I spoke to my Dr about getting on the list for. Ultimately it may not be possible for me (medically), so I am making peace with that and shifting my aspirations. I know that prior to the public clinic, and possibly still now, many Australian families go overseas or the unregulated known donor websites. I haven’t watched the show yet, just this and another video commentary. I am glad to hear they won the court case. Hopefully sets legal precedence to prevent this happening again anywhere.
I think the programme highlighted that even with the UK's policy of 10 families per donor in the UK, what's to say that Donor X at one bank and Donor Y at another bank is in fact the same person. There is no obligation for the banks to DNA test donors and communicate with other banks on the people they have as donors.
This is something the HFEA should be able to prevent within UK banks since donors have to give either a passport or nhs number so the HFEA would know if the same person donates at multiple banks. Obviously doesn't help with international banks or known donation though
Something similar happened in the US with a fertility specialist using his own sperm. It was on netflix called Our Father (if i remember correctly). There 100% needs to be more laws protecting people.
Here in the netherlands there have also been multiple cases of Doctors who used their own sperm when working with infertile couples, even before this series came out about the man with 1000 kids. But the Doctors I think mostly did this in the 60s?/70s/80s/90s while this guy seems to have stopped fairly recently, if he's telling the truth about stopping.
The most disturbing thing about this for me?? I'm Dutch, and I've never heard about this case before. (And I am fascinated by true crime, so weird I didn't know it) In fact.. As soon as I heard the Dutch accent I was about to stop it, because I figured this would be about dr Karbaat (infertility doctor Who used his own sperm many times) Well, Jonathan is much worse.....
Our son was conceived via a known donor. It is 100% a balance between trust and risk. You really hope they are being honest about their intentions, but you really cannot ensure legally or otherwise that they aren’t a serial donor. We are lucky with the laws in New Zealand, though. Policy states that once donor sperm is “handed over”, it belongs to the intended parent. Policy also recognises the partner of a pregnant person as the child’s legal parent, this prevents custody disagreements in the family court, as well as prevents us attempting to claim child support payments from the donor. Additionally, NZ has less than 10 clinics across the country, and while there is a 5 family limit, none of this is fool proof.
Similar scandal came out recently in Australia! (but not quite on the same scale) A lady has so far discovered she has 32 siblings, but believes has hundreds more, because this man donated (in this case anonymously so is just 'Donor 59' to her despite her best efforts) to so many sperm banks, using fake names etc (in the 80s-00s).
Something I hadn't ever considered before watching this documentary was that parents of donor conceived children might want to have multiple children and use the same donor. That makes so much sense, and there should be a protocol for that. half siblings raised together aren't a risk for accidental inbreeding.
usually you get a family slot with your donor sperm in the UK. This means once you have one baby you secure that family slot with that donor and can use them again for siblings, as long as the sperm is available. I believe this is fairly normal practice in other countries too.
I watched his RUclips response to the documentary and I found it more disturbing the longer I watched. At first he just dodges around things and waffles but he just seems to devolve into narcissistic drivel and take no accountability and make very little sense. 😱
I finished the documentary this evening, I have another question (especially following your comments about your donor), who verifies the donors description of themselves? If they say blonde hair blue eyes, is that checked? How about education or career? Or furthermore personality traits e.g kind, adventurous, creative… can they just make up who they want to be?
Sperm donor clinics must limit the donor contributions even more, say for instance to only two families per donor.. The problem is the unregulated sperm donors on websites - don't know how any woman can trust somebody like that ,they won't tell about the offspring they already have,and what about genetic testing.
I mean 5-10 children would be perfectly fine if it was regulated, they are very unlikely to meet randomly. In the UK you have to use your passport to donate to a clinic, which can then be checked, so you can only donate to one clinic there. This just needs to be replicated internationally. However there isn't a lot that can be done about unregulated donors, other than creating laws where they face legal repercussions if they are caught making themselves a 'health hazard', by knowingly creating too many children. But as for limiting how many donations can legally be made by one person to a very small number, this could just make the situation worse. There are often not enough donors, which pushes the prices up, which encourages people to go to unregulated donors. It's a similar situation to unregulated adoptions. Desperate people take more risks. Also better to keep people within regulations.
one of the most disturbing things that stuck me, was that he was working with a partner, and they would sometimes combine their "samples* into the same container to hand off to the people he met on FB, ect. or they would make a game of it and he would just hand off the other guy's donation (obviously the features and physical qualities play a big part in choosing a donor, and he was considered very attractive by a lot of these families and women, while the silent partner was just the opposite).
I'm also a SMBC, and I obviously used a donor as well... And this was so disturbing 🤦🏻♀️ I'm in South Africa and our donors are all anonymous unfortunately (unless they're known donors)... But with anonymous or known donors, you never really know if they donate at many banks etc.. The sperm bank I used says they reached their max families with live births (6 kids).. I'm in contact with 3 of the moms and one has twins.. So we know of 5 (including my son), so we are still missing one... However this is only the ones that actually reported it, many don't.. And you don't know what they do outside of that bank.. I need to have a look at other banks in SA.. To see if I see someone with his stats..
I think the most disturbing part is because of how much he has donated and how many children he has, those children could potentionally meet, not know and have a relationship, maybe a child of their own. 🤷♀️
Not just them but their grandchildren, great grandchildren, and also the issue with cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces nephews ect. The children and their children will have to vet all potential partners.
This has been in my Playlist to listen to at work the past few nights (overnight retail stocker) Interesting to hear your thoughts 😯 Also been binge watching your videos too lol
Watched this documentary as well and it was horrific. Still watching your video but just want to note that Cryos is an international spermbank but it is based in Denmark and he would travel to Copenhagen each time to donate to them. You just mentioned Cryos is one of the 11 ones in the Netherlands but that is not the case.
There's another documentary (i think it's a bbc or channel 4 one) about a man who did the same thing in the US, and the kids did a dna analysis kit and found out they had 50+ half siblings popping up on there. One couple in the UK had gone to the US for AI/IVF and had the same donor. It's so shocking. There needs to be some sort of international regulated database that all donation centres/clinics use with an international cap for number of donations.
i live in Canada i am a single mother by choice there are fb groups and app. i know in USA and Canada some donors have contracts. i look for AI only donor with contract unfortunately i had no luck. there is guy from LA USA name Kyle Gordy is known for his controversial “hobby” as a sperm donor and is the biological father to 65 children. he had a goal of 100 but has decided to retire. sperm banks and donors needs a better system
Genetic sexual attraction is the term you had forgotten to describe the attraction between family members that didn’t grow up together and meet later in life and feel attraction! I had never considered it in terms of donor conception rather than adoption etc. Very interesting area of study with unfortunately not very much research done due to its taboo nature.
I think sperm banks have large margins and greedy and need to take the hit of tighter regulation without raising the cost to recipients. If needed i wouldnt be abainst regulating prices too - fertility after all is a right and shouldnt be this expensive.
It's usually one about 1k for sperm, considering this includes at least a years storage and covers the wages of the embryology staff and others who work there, its not the highest cost. They are businesses that need to make a profit to keep going and stay open after all. Most off them do have limits and most donors are not psychopaths, clinics just need some sort of leadership to co-ordinate between. Putting the prices up just makes it even more inaccessible though, which drives people even more to unregulated donors. If fertility is a right then they it needs state funding.
I'm childless by choice, and found the series both horrifying and fascinating. I wanted to understand what it was like for families using donors. The man is a menace.
Bryony: *talking about more liely to fall in love with half siblings you didnt grow up with* Me: 🤯I never knew my English side of my family and I found myself having the hotts for the English women whom I saw myself in while living in the UK for a year. Holy shiiiii.... that's unsettling...(and it doesn't matter we can't make babies since I am gay). Still unsettling...😶
He literally wanted to be the next Gingis Khan. And maybe he has done it. In a thousand years they probably be able to trace their genetics to him like they can to GK today. Disturbing as he probably wrote himself into history books this way :/ I also think this has downgraded humanity in a way.
Yes, I'm sure fertility clinics offer a low monetary amount per donation. But the aspect of known donation, where people are getting in contact privately, will be a much higher amount.. especially when the man spoken about travels around to all these countries and that seems to be the only thing he's doing, apart from making short RUclips videos.
Im also from Australia and know our donors dont get paid. Thats why im interested to know if overseas people do this for financial gain? s@melaniepascoe5334
In the UK donors do get paid but it’s roughly £35 per donation, so shouldn’t be a huge motivating factor considering the screening/admin they are required to go through beforehand.
Will you help your child do DNA testing as they get older as ways of reaching out to half siblings? Idk how old you have to be to do things like 23 and me but even if just when they're older
This story of this man made me think... ...this man's reproductive rights were infringed upon (at the right of all his doner children who have been born and are alive)...wow. That's wild. ...so I suppose if you go the donor route, your rights do have an end point...
I don’t even have a door conceived child and found that Netflix series disturbing, especially because of how many children are half siblings in such a small area (not to mention worldwide). It’ll be so many generations affected, not just the immediate children.
Personally, I think there’s something very wrong with people who are “serial donors.”
This isn’t a donor situation but the thing you mentioned about meeting half siblings in real life is 100% true. I met my half brother in college and while I didn’t feel attracted to him in the traditional sense, I felt this weird need to be around him all the time. Mutual friends even tried to set us up. As we got to know each other things started lining up. We were originally from the same counties, we knew we were both related to some cousins of mine ect. A few more questions later, the family secrets poured out.
It is so needed that sperm banks make a international database of all donors around the world, one that would be used by all of them. Only this way(or something similar) would stop these incidents from happening. It's so creepy that he was just going around the world to donate.
Yes, and have them fingerprinted every time they donate. This would stop them from signing up with an ID from a friend, etc.
what a chad(and yes im a woman). isnt it your choice to become a mother of BASTARDS or is it not?
stop crying. stop blaming men over your mistakes. when men decide to stop donating sperm out of fear of being SUED for DONATING SPERM dont cry like btches. im saying this as a girl, godless women will always be the GOBLINS of societies
It was such an eye-opening story. Definitely needs to be regulated much more strictly.
It made me really think about all the rules around women’s reproductive rights compared to men! Generally women are expected to have birth control yet they can only have 1 pregnancy in 9/10 months (I’m aware there should be a bigger gap, so it’s probably more 12-13 months but just trying to look at the basic data), men COULD produce 1 pregnancy every single day (technically they could probably produce 3-5 pregnancies a day!!) so just looking at the numbers, that should be much more of a concern!! I’m not saying we should govern people’s right to reproduce, but I do think we need to shift towards preventing pregnancy from the male side as they can make so many more potential babies than women can!
Yep.
THIS 🙌
I agree but my worry here would be that if male contraception was a thing (other than condoms and the likes) we might end up with more people like this guy - saying he's on birth control when he isn't. And it doesn't affect them, it affects the women so women will still be the ones to *need* the birth control. But I agree, both should definitely have the options
Regulating a man's ability to reproduce is the most draconian thing I can imagine. That is beyond disturbing. I mean what are you actually suggesting here and have you thought deeply about the consequences of what you are pushing for.
I understand what you're trying to argue for but that ain't it.
Also most men aren't THAT attractive to be able to even realistically replicate what this man did. Hell there are entire forums full of losers who can't get a date, let alone impregnate a woman.
I can’t believe this can happen and there is nothing to protect women. This does feel slightly s:x offender behavior. The ambition to get so many women pregnant through deception is not normal behavior. Glad you talked about this topic
It a k1nk for some men to impregnate multiple women
I would argue he did engage in s*xual assault... the women he naturally concieved with likely wouldn't have concented had they known the truth
Exactly, especially since some of the children were conceived via intercourse which the woman likely wouldn’t have consented to if she knew he had thousands of kids already, I think it’s grounds for a sexual assault case. He’s manipulating and lying for his own sexual pleasure.
Definitely s offender behavior because these families didn’t have informed consent of the entire situation. They agreed under false circumstances
Frightening story, I really hope it’s not a common thing the donors are doing. I agree they need to have tighter regulations without increasing the cost for the families needing to access the service. I hope the donation banks are open to making their systems interconnected and also allowing siblings to contact one another early. I have been contemplating donor conception for starting my own family, but it’s not hugely accessible in Australia. They have just begun a public fertility clinic, which I spoke to my Dr about getting on the list for. Ultimately it may not be possible for me (medically), so I am making peace with that and shifting my aspirations. I know that prior to the public clinic, and possibly still now, many Australian families go overseas or the unregulated known donor websites. I haven’t watched the show yet, just this and another video commentary. I am glad to hear they won the court case. Hopefully sets legal precedence to prevent this happening again anywhere.
I think the programme highlighted that even with the UK's policy of 10 families per donor in the UK, what's to say that Donor X at one bank and Donor Y at another bank is in fact the same person. There is no obligation for the banks to DNA test donors and communicate with other banks on the people they have as donors.
This is something the HFEA should be able to prevent within UK banks since donors have to give either a passport or nhs number so the HFEA would know if the same person donates at multiple banks. Obviously doesn't help with international banks or known donation though
Something similar happened in the US with a fertility specialist using his own sperm. It was on netflix called Our Father (if i remember correctly). There 100% needs to be more laws protecting people.
This is HORRIBLE!!!
Here in the netherlands there have also been multiple cases of Doctors who used their own sperm when working with infertile couples, even before this series came out about the man with 1000 kids. But the Doctors I think mostly did this in the 60s?/70s/80s/90s while this guy seems to have stopped fairly recently, if he's telling the truth about stopping.
It also happened in the UK in the 40s onwards with an Austrian fertility doctor. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertold_Wiesner
The most disturbing thing about this for me?? I'm Dutch, and I've never heard about this case before. (And I am fascinated by true crime, so weird I didn't know it)
In fact..
As soon as I heard the Dutch accent I was about to stop it, because I figured this would be about dr Karbaat (infertility doctor Who used his own sperm many times)
Well, Jonathan is much worse.....
I guess that’s where ancestry dna and the like will come in real handy for the siblings to potentially make the links.
Our son was conceived via a known donor. It is 100% a balance between trust and risk. You really hope they are being honest about their intentions, but you really cannot ensure legally or otherwise that they aren’t a serial donor. We are lucky with the laws in New Zealand, though. Policy states that once donor sperm is “handed over”, it belongs to the intended parent. Policy also recognises the partner of a pregnant person as the child’s legal parent, this prevents custody disagreements in the family court, as well as prevents us attempting to claim child support payments from the donor. Additionally, NZ has less than 10 clinics across the country, and while there is a 5 family limit, none of this is fool proof.
Similar scandal came out recently in Australia! (but not quite on the same scale) A lady has so far discovered she has 32 siblings, but believes has hundreds more, because this man donated (in this case anonymously so is just 'Donor 59' to her despite her best efforts) to so many sperm banks, using fake names etc (in the 80s-00s).
Something I hadn't ever considered before watching this documentary was that parents of donor conceived children might want to have multiple children and use the same donor. That makes so much sense, and there should be a protocol for that. half siblings raised together aren't a risk for accidental inbreeding.
usually you get a family slot with your donor sperm in the UK. This means once you have one baby you secure that family slot with that donor and can use them again for siblings, as long as the sperm is available. I believe this is fairly normal practice in other countries too.
I watched his RUclips response to the documentary and I found it more disturbing the longer I watched. At first he just dodges around things and waffles but he just seems to devolve into narcissistic drivel and take no accountability and make very little sense. 😱
I finished the documentary this evening, I have another question (especially following your comments about your donor), who verifies the donors description of themselves? If they say blonde hair blue eyes, is that checked? How about education or career? Or furthermore personality traits e.g kind, adventurous, creative… can they just make up who they want to be?
Sperm donor clinics must limit the donor contributions even more, say for instance to only two families per donor.. The problem is the unregulated sperm donors on websites - don't know how any woman can trust somebody like that ,they won't tell about the offspring they already have,and what about genetic testing.
I mean 5-10 children would be perfectly fine if it was regulated, they are very unlikely to meet randomly. In the UK you have to use your passport to donate to a clinic, which can then be checked, so you can only donate to one clinic there. This just needs to be replicated internationally. However there isn't a lot that can be done about unregulated donors, other than creating laws where they face legal repercussions if they are caught making themselves a 'health hazard', by knowingly creating too many children. But as for limiting how many donations can legally be made by one person to a very small number, this could just make the situation worse. There are often not enough donors, which pushes the prices up, which encourages people to go to unregulated donors. It's a similar situation to unregulated adoptions. Desperate people take more risks. Also better to keep people within regulations.
one of the most disturbing things that stuck me, was that he was working with a partner, and they would sometimes combine their "samples* into the same container to hand off to the people he met on FB, ect. or they would make a game of it and he would just hand off the other guy's donation (obviously the features and physical qualities play a big part in choosing a donor, and he was considered very attractive by a lot of these families and women, while the silent partner was just the opposite).
I'm also a SMBC, and I obviously used a donor as well... And this was so disturbing 🤦🏻♀️
I'm in South Africa and our donors are all anonymous unfortunately (unless they're known donors)... But with anonymous or known donors, you never really know if they donate at many banks etc..
The sperm bank I used says they reached their max families with live births (6 kids).. I'm in contact with 3 of the moms and one has twins.. So we know of 5 (including my son), so we are still missing one...
However this is only the ones that actually reported it, many don't.. And you don't know what they do outside of that bank..
I need to have a look at other banks in SA.. To see if I see someone with his stats..
I think the most disturbing part is because of how much he has donated and how many children he has, those children could potentionally meet, not know and have a relationship, maybe a child of their own. 🤷♀️
Not just them but their grandchildren, great grandchildren, and also the issue with cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces nephews ect. The children and their children will have to vet all potential partners.
It makes me sick thinking that 2 of his children might have children together not knowing they are sibling
This has been in my Playlist to listen to at work the past few nights (overnight retail stocker)
Interesting to hear your thoughts 😯
Also been binge watching your videos too lol
Watched this documentary as well and it was horrific. Still watching your video but just want to note that Cryos is an international spermbank but it is based in Denmark and he would travel to Copenhagen each time to donate to them. You just mentioned Cryos is one of the 11 ones in the Netherlands but that is not the case.
There's another documentary (i think it's a bbc or channel 4 one) about a man who did the same thing in the US, and the kids did a dna analysis kit and found out they had 50+ half siblings popping up on there. One couple in the UK had gone to the US for AI/IVF and had the same donor.
It's so shocking. There needs to be some sort of international regulated database that all donation centres/clinics use with an international cap for number of donations.
There have been a few cases of fertility doctors doing this. One in the UK was Bertold Wiesner. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertold_Wiesner
I like your hair down! It seems darker?
i live in Canada i am a single mother by choice there are fb groups and app. i know in USA and Canada some donors have contracts. i look for AI only donor with contract unfortunately i had no luck.
there is guy from LA USA name Kyle Gordy is known for his controversial “hobby” as a sperm donor and is the biological father to 65 children. he had a goal of 100 but has decided to retire.
sperm banks and donors needs a better system
Genetic sexual attraction is the term you had forgotten to describe the attraction between family members that didn’t grow up together and meet later in life and feel attraction!
I had never considered it in terms of donor conception rather than adoption etc.
Very interesting area of study with unfortunately not very much research done due to its taboo nature.
I think sperm banks have large margins and greedy and need to take the hit of tighter regulation without raising the cost to recipients. If needed i wouldnt be abainst regulating prices too - fertility after all is a right and shouldnt be this expensive.
It's usually one about 1k for sperm, considering this includes at least a years storage and covers the wages of the embryology staff and others who work there, its not the highest cost. They are businesses that need to make a profit to keep going and stay open after all. Most off them do have limits and most donors are not psychopaths, clinics just need some sort of leadership to co-ordinate between. Putting the prices up just makes it even more inaccessible though, which drives people even more to unregulated donors. If fertility is a right then they it needs state funding.
I'm childless by choice, and found the series both horrifying and fascinating. I wanted to understand what it was like for families using donors. The man is a menace.
Bryony: *talking about more liely to fall in love with half siblings you didnt grow up with*
Me: 🤯I never knew my English side of my family and I found myself having the hotts for the English women whom I saw myself in while living in the UK for a year. Holy shiiiii.... that's unsettling...(and it doesn't matter we can't make babies since I am gay). Still unsettling...😶
He literally wanted to be the next Gingis Khan. And maybe he has done it. In a thousand years they probably be able to trace their genetics to him like they can to GK today. Disturbing as he probably wrote himself into history books this way :/
I also think this has downgraded humanity in a way.
So interesting ! Do donors get paid ? This may be a silly question but is this why people predominately donate?
Can't speak for any other country but in Australia you do not get paid to be a donor.
Yes, I'm sure fertility clinics offer a low monetary amount per donation.
But the aspect of known donation, where people are getting in contact privately, will be a much higher amount.. especially when the man spoken about travels around to all these countries and that seems to be the only thing he's doing, apart from making short RUclips videos.
Im also from Australia and know our donors dont get paid. Thats why im interested to know if overseas people do this for financial gain? s@melaniepascoe5334
In the UK donors do get paid but it’s roughly £35 per donation, so shouldn’t be a huge motivating factor considering the screening/admin they are required to go through beforehand.
@@charlottebeaumont9195but 35 is a lot to some people which could bring down the quality of donor
Will you help your child do DNA testing as they get older as ways of reaching out to half siblings? Idk how old you have to be to do things like 23 and me but even if just when they're older
This story of this man made me think... ...this man's reproductive rights were infringed upon (at the right of all his doner children who have been born and are alive)...wow. That's wild. ...so I suppose if you go the donor route, your rights do have an end point...
Are you going to DNA test your child on the commercial DNA test companies?
If anything Netflix made him popular. His channnel had like 500 subs before, now hes at 20k. If anything this is backfiring