Level design is one of those things that 99% of players will only notice when it fails them, and otherwise goes largely unappreciated. Even in many open world games there's a lot of thought put into things like placement of landmarks and guiding events/sidequests that seamlessly nudge the player in a beneficial direction (looking at you, BotW, Genshin, Elden Ring etc)
That's so true generally speaking. Good level design can put you into a flow state where you fluidly progress and never even notice that you're effectively being guided in a given direction. That's why I make a point to talk about how games guide the player in my reviews as one of the very first points every single time, because it's both hard to notice and extremely important.
Yeeeeaah that happens too. But even more to my point, if you have literally even one method of fact checking what the game wants from you at the moment (IE Dead Space objective line, Clairvoyance in Skyrim, etc), then you can get yourself back on track. Even if admittedly, it may be more your fault than the game's given the circumstance. Lol
Can you remember where you got stuck? I actually got stuck on the Power Tunnel's door in Arcas for like an hour because there's literally no indication that you can interact with the door at all. I'm even making an extra video for Patreon just about that.
@@lonewolfex Lmao that was the exact spot. It's funny because after that, I didn't get stuck for the rest of what I played. Haven't quite finished it though. Fingers crossed lol.
All I hear is "I suck at problem solving" I recall being stuck in the original zelda for a long time because my kid brain couldn't understand. But revisited the game when I was older and finished the game. I developed problem-solving skills. I learned how the game worked and figured it out. Same with Super Mario World and the forest of illusion. That ghost house confused the hell out of me but after trying different things I managed to figure it out. I didn't feel slighted I didn't feel anger but what I did feel was elation when I figured it out. I hate when games hold my hand.
There's a difference between a problem that takes two seconds, a rewarding problem to solve, or a simple door that should take 30 seconds. I think you failed to distinguish these and jumped to insulting his problem solving skills. Zelda is meant to be an adventure game with many puzzles mixed in. That's VERY different. It's intended to be rewarding, unlike a simple door, ykwim? It's not the player's fault; its poor design. Hugo Martin explained that it is the developer's responsibility to design a game that is intuitive for its intended fanbase, which is why he surprisingly defended Polygon's Doom 2016 video, and took it as inspiration to develop a system that prevents pistol and melee spamming, forces the player to use the mechanics properly, and becomes intuitive for the players in their next game, Doom Eternal. I could find the video for you if you want.
Bro bringing up the interviews and talking about DOOM's design philosophy? My brother, you are right at home here. But on topic, there's a concept in psychology that is applied in therapy and counseling. Effectively the purpose of both is the subtle manipulation of a person for their own betterment, and the most effective way of achieving this is by incepting an idea such that the client believes they came up with it themselves. If you can guide a person toward a given conclusion properly, they won't even realize that it wasn't their idea. That feeling of elation in conquering obstacles is arguably the goal for most games. Almost all games are designed to guide you toward that end, and if they do it well enough, you will never even notice. You will carry on with your exploration making new discoveries, solving problems and overcoming challenges, and all of it is as a result of you knowing what to do and where to go implicitly; which is the result of good game design. Sure it's partly that you have good problem solving skills, but it's moreso that you have gotten adept at recognizing patterns. You've been conditioned by playing enough games that your way of thinking changes, and you know what to look for to glean information on how to solve problems in them. It's because The Callisto Protocol conditioned me to solve problems its way, and then suddenly the solution wasn't in line with that conditioning, that I got lost.
@doriantrm I stand by my statement about problem-solving. Last castle in SMB is a maze that is completed by trial and error. I cleared it at 6 years old with a timer ticking down. My typical response to pushing a button in a game and not being clear of what changed would have me checking my surroundings to see what has changed in the environment vs just throwing my hands up and saying "this is bad game design" I understand if someone doesn't like it but it's simple problem solving. Another real world example one time I left my keys in another pair of pants and forgot about it over the weekend then Monday came couldn't find my keys I checked the pants 5 times and swear I didn't feel them in the pockets so I ran around my house trying to find the keys. I then slowed down took my time and instead of erratically searching I put my hands in my pockets and low and behold I pulled out keys. I wasn't exactly fun but you did see me calling my boss about being late and blaming bad pants/life design. No failed to appropriately check my surroundings. That is on me.
I can't tell if you're just baiting at this point. Lol I didn't throw up my hands, give up, and go "bad game design." I had the same response to pushing the button and having it be unclear that you say. I explored literally all of the level available to me, and that was a waste of time because the only solution is to go forward. The worse thing is, having just played through Callisto Protocol again this week, you ARE meant to go back to the exact watchtower, and you are able to get in now; which means my intuition to go back to the tower was right. It just happens to be that the game only allows you to progress in one way. To your last point, right, you wouldn't blame your pants for losing your keys, and you'd tell your boss "Sorry I'm late, *I* couldn't find my keys this morning." But none of that is relevant because it's a false equivalency. The two aren't comparable because the circumstances and variables are wildly different. In the hypothetical equivalent though- If your pants were designed by another person with your keys already in them, with the intent that you're supposed to be able to find the keys, and you couldn't find them, then that would be a failure of the design. Likewise, if a person designed your house with the only door being on the roof, you would not be at fault for not knowing how to get into the house. If someone designed your car without brakes and you crash, that isn't your fault for not being good enough at braking. If a problems arises, which never should have been a problem in the first place, because of someone else's design, that is a fault of that person and that design, not of you.
@lonewolfex Hell yeah i mentioned Doom! Im a Doom fanatic, and Hugo Martin is a legend in modern game developement, right next to Miyazaki What you said about Psychology is very true, I'm actually a psych major haha. Thanks for taking the time to type out the comments, always good to hear from the author. Also, I don't think it's so much that the door didn't line up with other mechanics, it's just that it's not made clear, and it's really not rewarding. I don't think it was intended to be rewarding. Anyway. keep up your videos man, this stuff is awesome. I'm stunned that you dont have more views. For future videos tho, try to implement more examples and keep the examples shorter.
I am sorry, but how old are you? Literally every game before 2000s were without any specific cues: Doom, Unreal, Half-life. You literally had to figure out how to unlock next area. No markers, no maps, no lists of "what to do". People were stuck for months on some levels or maps.
Correct, and being stuck on a single level or area for a month is a great reason to put down a game. Game design has evolved and gotten better such as to avoid problems like that, because wasting your time is not the same as being entertaining.
@@lonewolfex Yes, if you have a psychoactive disorder of some sort, and can't stand a second to chill and think a puzzle through. I get it. That's why games like Half-life 2 or Portal or Prey (2006) and Prey (2017) - are gone now. And also why an ADHD fueled psychotic frenzy like Doom Eternal and other "e-sports" FPSs emerged. When the game becomes not "a game" anymore that's where all the game thrill vanishes. I came to play the game for the game. Not to sweat in the chair with some "sports" craziness of so-called "fast paced" "not a second wasted" stress generator. On the other things I totally agree with you on the intuitiveness issue. But not in this particular case with the [LOCKED] door. That was pretty much intuitive as for my view. Especially after De.. Space (2008).
First off, games like Doom 1993 and half life had very simple mechanics as far as progressing. Those games are USUALLY very intuitive and progressing can be solved within seconds or 2 minutes max. If they are not, that can be a flaw like lonewolfex said. Think about it. In Doom, you either open doors, or find key cards to open doors. That is a simple mechanic that is streamlined through the game. Its pretty easy to distinguish a door from a wall in that game, lol. The door that he showed in the video is not a reoccurring mechanic, its just poor game design. He explained many reasons in the video above. I'd love to see you play a game like the Shadow Warrior remaster, where the level progression is so unintuitive, and watch as you get frustrated halfway through the game because of your "psychoactive disorder" (not a bad game, the level design is just lacking. I recommend it) and you realize the obtuse insult you used is a poor generalization. Sometimes getting stuck just isn't fun, man. Its not rewarding, unlike in Portal, where that literally IS the game. Its funny that you mentioned that game, because its simply apples and oranges. It is linear, but Portal is a puzzle game. Puzzle ARE MEANT to be unintuitive, haha. Difference is--the puzzles in Portal become complex and rewarding through many showcased mechanics. Once again, the door doesn't do that. Its a simple door, and its obnoxious. Haven't you ever been stuck on a part of a game for 30 minutes, and gotten frustrated? Or do you simply not mind sitting there trying to figure out something for aaaaages that...should take 30 seconds? Ykwim? You mentioned Dead Space, even though Dead Space was given as an example IN THE VIDEO for intuitive design due to its awesome objective pointer and lack of obscure buttons, unlike the Callisto Protocol, lmao. Plus that pointer does not break immersion because it is integrated in his suit, and makes sense within the world. Thats just for bonus points tho, bc Dead Space is a master piece and went the extra mile (hopefully we can agree on this). Also, tf do you mean games like portal and half life are gone now? Those games are everywhere TO THIS DAY and are so beloved. Games like Elden Ring still give the player many chances to discover and solve puzzles; it directly contradicts the "not a second wasted stress generator" statement, AND it was literally massive. Plenty time to figure stuff out in that game. If you don't like "so called fast paced games", then just admit its not for you. No issue with that. Don't use emotionally charged language to label games that are well crafted, or talk down to people by saying "how old are you"... TBH, I do appreciate that you acknowledged the unintuitiveness of many games though. Glad we can agree on that.
@@doriantrm First of, "first of" is with one letter F in "of", because "off" has a totally different meaning. Like: "turn off the button of that mechanism". And English is not even my native language. Secondly, how could it be more simple than the word [LOCKED] on the door and word [LOCKDOWN] on the security panel next to it?🙂
Genuinely appreciate your comments knowing that English is your second language. I respect the effort for adding to the conversation, even if we disagree. Although on that note, English is dorian's first language, and he's right, the phrase when beginning a list is actually "First off." As in "First off, The Entropy Centre is a lovely puzzle game directly inspired by Portal. Second off, I'm hungry." This phrasing is most often used when addressing talking points or topics in chronological order. Alternatively, you could just say "first," or "firstly." Ironically, speaking of being unintuitive, you're correct, saying "First of," as in the *first* object *of* a list of objects, makes the most sense. I'll be the first to admit that English is difficult, constantly changing, and despite how specific it allows you to be, English is kinda dumb. haha Now to directly answer your question- Because the watchtower has a gate in front of it which is subject to the lockdown, and in the only other time you lift a lockdown through a console, two things happen. One, you are shown what lifting that lockdown did visually on the screens in front of you (It shows Elias opening his cell and leaving), and second, it opened something far away from you. Contextually speaking, based on what you as the player have experienced 20 minutes ago, using the console in the armory should probably unlock the gate back at the watchtower remotely, and not the door in the room. You're right in saying that the lifting the lockdown opening the locked door right next to it is the simplest answer, however, it isn't the answer that makes the most sense given the experience you already have with the game. If nothing else, the thing that makes the most sense is to go back to the room that was shouting and flashing "Lockdown" to see what's different there, seeing how, unlike last time, the screens didn't show you what parts of the lockdown were affected.
![Chlöe - Shake (Feat. Jeremih) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aDs_1ufpfv8/mqdefault.jpg)
Level design is one of those things that 99% of players will only notice when it fails them, and otherwise goes largely unappreciated. Even in many open world games there's a lot of thought put into things like placement of landmarks and guiding events/sidequests that seamlessly nudge the player in a beneficial direction (looking at you, BotW, Genshin, Elden Ring etc)
That's so true generally speaking. Good level design can put you into a flow state where you fluidly progress and never even notice that you're effectively being guided in a given direction. That's why I make a point to talk about how games guide the player in my reviews as one of the very first points every single time, because it's both hard to notice and extremely important.
Some of my favorite level design ever has to be dark souls 1
I've never noticed it before, but I got stuck in games a lot of times because I got distracted at the wrong time lol
Yeeeeaah that happens too. But even more to my point, if you have literally even one method of fact checking what the game wants from you at the moment (IE Dead Space objective line, Clairvoyance in Skyrim, etc), then you can get yourself back on track. Even if admittedly, it may be more your fault than the game's given the circumstance. Lol
I remember a flash game literally called unfair platformer
I also got lost in Callisto. Like for real. It pissed me off lol.
Can you remember where you got stuck? I actually got stuck on the Power Tunnel's door in Arcas for like an hour because there's literally no indication that you can interact with the door at all. I'm even making an extra video for Patreon just about that.
@@lonewolfex Lmao that was the exact spot. It's funny because after that, I didn't get stuck for the rest of what I played. Haven't quite finished it though. Fingers crossed lol.
Anyone know the game in 9:36?
All I hear is "I suck at problem solving"
I recall being stuck in the original zelda for a long time because my kid brain couldn't understand. But revisited the game when I was older and finished the game. I developed problem-solving skills. I learned how the game worked and figured it out.
Same with Super Mario World and the forest of illusion. That ghost house confused the hell out of me but after trying different things I managed to figure it out. I didn't feel slighted I didn't feel anger but what I did feel was elation when I figured it out.
I hate when games hold my hand.
There's a difference between a problem that takes two seconds, a rewarding problem to solve, or a simple door that should take 30 seconds. I think you failed to distinguish these and jumped to insulting his problem solving skills. Zelda is meant to be an adventure game with many puzzles mixed in. That's VERY different. It's intended to be rewarding, unlike a simple door, ykwim?
It's not the player's fault; its poor design. Hugo Martin explained that it is the developer's responsibility to design a game that is intuitive for its intended fanbase, which is why he surprisingly defended Polygon's Doom 2016 video, and took it as inspiration to develop a system that prevents pistol and melee spamming, forces the player to use the mechanics properly, and becomes intuitive for the players in their next game, Doom Eternal. I could find the video for you if you want.
Bro bringing up the interviews and talking about DOOM's design philosophy? My brother, you are right at home here. But on topic, there's a concept in psychology that is applied in therapy and counseling. Effectively the purpose of both is the subtle manipulation of a person for their own betterment, and the most effective way of achieving this is by incepting an idea such that the client believes they came up with it themselves. If you can guide a person toward a given conclusion properly, they won't even realize that it wasn't their idea.
That feeling of elation in conquering obstacles is arguably the goal for most games. Almost all games are designed to guide you toward that end, and if they do it well enough, you will never even notice. You will carry on with your exploration making new discoveries, solving problems and overcoming challenges, and all of it is as a result of you knowing what to do and where to go implicitly; which is the result of good game design. Sure it's partly that you have good problem solving skills, but it's moreso that you have gotten adept at recognizing patterns. You've been conditioned by playing enough games that your way of thinking changes, and you know what to look for to glean information on how to solve problems in them. It's because The Callisto Protocol conditioned me to solve problems its way, and then suddenly the solution wasn't in line with that conditioning, that I got lost.
@doriantrm I stand by my statement about problem-solving.
Last castle in SMB is a maze that is completed by trial and error. I cleared it at 6 years old with a timer ticking down.
My typical response to pushing a button in a game and not being clear of what changed would have me checking my surroundings to see what has changed in the environment vs just throwing my hands up and saying "this is bad game design" I understand if someone doesn't like it but it's simple problem solving.
Another real world example one time I left my keys in another pair of pants and forgot about it over the weekend then Monday came couldn't find my keys I checked the pants 5 times and swear I didn't feel them in the pockets so I ran around my house trying to find the keys.
I then slowed down took my time and instead of erratically searching I put my hands in my pockets and low and behold I pulled out keys.
I wasn't exactly fun but you did see me calling my boss about being late and blaming bad pants/life design. No failed to appropriately check my surroundings. That is on me.
I can't tell if you're just baiting at this point. Lol I didn't throw up my hands, give up, and go "bad game design." I had the same response to pushing the button and having it be unclear that you say. I explored literally all of the level available to me, and that was a waste of time because the only solution is to go forward.
The worse thing is, having just played through Callisto Protocol again this week, you ARE meant to go back to the exact watchtower, and you are able to get in now; which means my intuition to go back to the tower was right. It just happens to be that the game only allows you to progress in one way.
To your last point, right, you wouldn't blame your pants for losing your keys, and you'd tell your boss "Sorry I'm late, *I* couldn't find my keys this morning." But none of that is relevant because it's a false equivalency. The two aren't comparable because the circumstances and variables are wildly different. In the hypothetical equivalent though- If your pants were designed by another person with your keys already in them, with the intent that you're supposed to be able to find the keys, and you couldn't find them, then that would be a failure of the design. Likewise, if a person designed your house with the only door being on the roof, you would not be at fault for not knowing how to get into the house. If someone designed your car without brakes and you crash, that isn't your fault for not being good enough at braking.
If a problems arises, which never should have been a problem in the first place, because of someone else's design, that is a fault of that person and that design, not of you.
@lonewolfex Hell yeah i mentioned Doom! Im a Doom fanatic, and Hugo Martin is a legend in modern game developement, right next to Miyazaki
What you said about Psychology is very true, I'm actually a psych major haha. Thanks for taking the time to type out the comments, always good to hear from the author. Also, I don't think it's so much that the door didn't line up with other mechanics, it's just that it's not made clear, and it's really not rewarding. I don't think it was intended to be rewarding.
Anyway. keep up your videos man, this stuff is awesome. I'm stunned that you dont have more views. For future videos tho, try to implement more examples and keep the examples shorter.
I am sorry, but how old are you?
Literally every game before 2000s were without any specific cues: Doom, Unreal, Half-life. You literally had to figure out how to unlock next area.
No markers, no maps, no lists of "what to do". People were stuck for months on some levels or maps.
Correct, and being stuck on a single level or area for a month is a great reason to put down a game. Game design has evolved and gotten better such as to avoid problems like that, because wasting your time is not the same as being entertaining.
@@lonewolfex
Yes, if you have a psychoactive disorder of some sort, and can't stand a second to chill and think a puzzle through. I get it. That's why games like Half-life 2 or Portal or Prey (2006) and Prey (2017) - are gone now. And also why an ADHD fueled psychotic frenzy like Doom Eternal and other "e-sports" FPSs emerged.
When the game becomes not "a game" anymore that's where all the game thrill vanishes.
I came to play the game for the game. Not to sweat in the chair with some "sports" craziness of so-called "fast paced" "not a second wasted" stress generator.
On the other things I totally agree with you on the intuitiveness issue. But not in this particular case with the [LOCKED] door. That was pretty much intuitive as for my view. Especially after De.. Space (2008).
First off, games like Doom 1993 and half life had very simple mechanics as far as progressing. Those games are USUALLY very intuitive and progressing can be solved within seconds or 2 minutes max. If they are not, that can be a flaw like lonewolfex said.
Think about it. In Doom, you either open doors, or find key cards to open doors. That is a simple mechanic that is streamlined through the game. Its pretty easy to distinguish a door from a wall in that game, lol. The door that he showed in the video is not a reoccurring mechanic, its just poor game design. He explained many reasons in the video above. I'd love to see you play a game like the Shadow Warrior remaster, where the level progression is so unintuitive, and watch as you get frustrated halfway through the game because of your "psychoactive disorder" (not a bad game, the level design is just lacking. I recommend it) and you realize the obtuse insult you used is a poor generalization.
Sometimes getting stuck just isn't fun, man. Its not rewarding, unlike in Portal, where that literally IS the game. Its funny that you mentioned that game, because its simply apples and oranges. It is linear, but Portal is a puzzle game. Puzzle ARE MEANT to be unintuitive, haha. Difference is--the puzzles in Portal become complex and rewarding through many showcased mechanics. Once again, the door doesn't do that. Its a simple door, and its obnoxious. Haven't you ever been stuck on a part of a game for 30 minutes, and gotten frustrated? Or do you simply not mind sitting there trying to figure out something for aaaaages that...should take 30 seconds? Ykwim? You mentioned Dead Space, even though Dead Space was given as an example IN THE VIDEO for intuitive design due to its awesome objective pointer and lack of obscure buttons, unlike the Callisto Protocol, lmao. Plus that pointer does not break immersion because it is integrated in his suit, and makes sense within the world. Thats just for bonus points tho, bc Dead Space is a master piece and went the extra mile (hopefully we can agree on this).
Also, tf do you mean games like portal and half life are gone now? Those games are everywhere TO THIS DAY and are so beloved. Games like Elden Ring still give the player many chances to discover and solve puzzles; it directly contradicts the "not a second wasted stress generator" statement, AND it was literally massive. Plenty time to figure stuff out in that game. If you don't like "so called fast paced games", then just admit its not for you. No issue with that. Don't use emotionally charged language to label games that are well crafted, or talk down to people by saying "how old are you"...
TBH, I do appreciate that you acknowledged the unintuitiveness of many games though. Glad we can agree on that.
@@doriantrm
First of, "first of" is with one letter F in "of", because "off" has a totally different meaning. Like: "turn off the button of that mechanism". And English is not even my native language.
Secondly, how could it be more simple than the word [LOCKED] on the door and word [LOCKDOWN] on the security panel next to it?🙂
Genuinely appreciate your comments knowing that English is your second language. I respect the effort for adding to the conversation, even if we disagree. Although on that note, English is dorian's first language, and he's right, the phrase when beginning a list is actually "First off." As in "First off, The Entropy Centre is a lovely puzzle game directly inspired by Portal. Second off, I'm hungry." This phrasing is most often used when addressing talking points or topics in chronological order. Alternatively, you could just say "first," or "firstly." Ironically, speaking of being unintuitive, you're correct, saying "First of," as in the *first* object *of* a list of objects, makes the most sense. I'll be the first to admit that English is difficult, constantly changing, and despite how specific it allows you to be, English is kinda dumb. haha
Now to directly answer your question-
Because the watchtower has a gate in front of it which is subject to the lockdown, and in the only other time you lift a lockdown through a console, two things happen. One, you are shown what lifting that lockdown did visually on the screens in front of you (It shows Elias opening his cell and leaving), and second, it opened something far away from you. Contextually speaking, based on what you as the player have experienced 20 minutes ago, using the console in the armory should probably unlock the gate back at the watchtower remotely, and not the door in the room.
You're right in saying that the lifting the lockdown opening the locked door right next to it is the simplest answer, however, it isn't the answer that makes the most sense given the experience you already have with the game. If nothing else, the thing that makes the most sense is to go back to the room that was shouting and flashing "Lockdown" to see what's different there, seeing how, unlike last time, the screens didn't show you what parts of the lockdown were affected.