At first when you said you weren’t counting reinforcements I was like “Hey! Reinforcements should count, right?” And then I remembered just how many games have infinite reinforcements and I decided you were a wise man.
Yeah, the only other way to go about it is "only the first 20 turns of reinforcements count, plus any scripted spawns like FE4's". EDIT: I should also add here that even this is flawed, as FE5 trolls it by having a number of their infinite spawners being random chance per turn of spawning something, such as in chapter 4.
I'd love to see these statistics taken and divided by the number of maps you counted as well to get an average unit density per map of each game. I have a feeling Radiant Dawn would end up with the highest number
@Scarlett FE4 would be the highest average at 97 per chapter. But if you would go by average per castle it would be 28. FE10 averages 35 making it the second highest or the highest depending on how you look at FE4.
I find it amazing how massive FE10 is. I mean, it's only behind Fates that's actually 3 games and 3H that's 3.5 different stories. And while you could argue that FE10 is also 4 different stories, you still have to play them all in order, no split paths, gaiden chapters or paralogues.
Thankfully one of the FE wikis (the best one by far btw) has a detailed enemy list on each FE game and their chapters, where the number of initial enemies+ reinforcments is written
I think it would've been interesting to make statistics by ignoring the route splits and only taking into account the routing with the most enemies. I feel knowing which game throws the most enemies at you in a single playthrough is a more meaningful statistic than how many enemies are on the cartridge
Wouldn't it be fairer to omit infinitely spawning reinforcements without turn limits? You can't just ignore reinforcements altogether when there are clear cases where you'll need to fight your way through them (e.g. Jedah's god-forsaken endless eyeball summoning), so I think a limit needs to established (i.e. reinforcement count will not exceed 20, or something)
I mean one map in Thracia has a turn limit (defense map) but it can spawn up to 50 enemies every turn. So you end up with like 500 units on that map alone.
@@zer0name720 that's the issue tough is it designed for you to fight them all or actually make you rush the objective then you get into a whole other debate of how many turns of reinforcement should be included for each map and then calculation get very subjective and convoluted
@@bravepotatoe7513 The defense of Tahra's only "objective" is to survive, everything else you can do on that map is optional. You can't end the map any faster, all you can do is spawn more enemies by killing enemies.
@@coldeed I see your point. I guess for the video's sake he made it with regards to all games but if we counted them separately for Fates then you'd be right in that they'd each be less individually compared to the rest
This is really cool data to see. I actually was working on getting unique map numbers from each of the games, because I thought it was an interesting metric to look at as well. I eventually stopped and never came back to it because of the complexity of counting unique maps in the multi-route games. Plus I wanted to specify main story maps vs side maps. A video on that subject would be super cool too!
Spot pass paralogues in Awakening are actually part of the main game, they're simply hidden. If you modify the rom and make the game threat them like regular chapters, they will all appear after completing chapter 25.
Eh, I think reinforcements are such a big part of Fire Emblem it feels wrong to just ignore them. I would have omitted the infinite ones and counted the rest.
Or just count all unique reinforcement waves a set number of times each. Like, if a wave of 5 cavaliers spawns for 10 turns, just count the first 3 turns, meaning 5*3 enemies counted.
Since birthright and conquest are technically different games, I would've counted them seperately (and then if including revelations, despite it technically being a DLC, I would've counted that seperately too for fairness) Then for all other ***big*** route splits (so probably just three houses, I don't think the Eirika-Ephraim FE8 split requires seperate counts, but idk about other route splits I haven't mentioned) I'd also do seperate counts Makes it fairer, since routes gave Fates and Three Houses unfair advantage even with the copypasting in Three Houses.
I feel like outright not including any reinforcements is a bit disingenuous to the idea of the video, since reinforcements can easily double the number of enemies in a map. Of course infinite reinforcements would make counting them awful, but I think that a solution would be to count the instances in which a reinforcement is infinite or lasts an extremely long time. For example, quite a few maps in Conquest have infinitely spawning enemies, such as the eternal stairway, final chapter, and Siegbert’s map, while maps like chapter 4 in Thracia have randomly spawning soldiers from turns 8 to 60. These would probably be marked separately as “infinite reinforcements”
What difficulty did you use? Did you use the normal, hard, or "lunatic" modes? lunatic is in quotes because of the different names like fe16 using maddening instead of lunatic and some games have a lunatic+ mode which makes way more enemies with broken skills which is basically impossible without really thinking too hard on it or just cheesing it
Yeah let me just sit here being bombarded for 83 turns. I would rather be forced to do what mitten squad did and no damage Pokemon Emerald then force myself through FE6 again.
@@1japanfan883 I played it blind, so I had no idea where anything secret might have been. I kept playing without looking anything up because for me blind playthrough is more fun. I might try it again.
I played all FE games, and I enjoy pretty much all of them, but I don't remember everything in each one of them. While you were saying FE2, FE5, FE8, etc, I was looking at the graphics and hoping you would pass by a character to help me identify which game you're talking about. Maybe having the protagonist image showing up in the side for each game you're talking about would help.
all were on max difficulties available except fe9. he mentioned that he couldn't gather enough info about maniac mode so he went with hard mode instead. I'd imagine the enemy count would be above 1,250.
There was a very easy way to count reinforcements. Just count every unqiue reinforcement group once, or a maximum of say, 3 times. That way you can still account for the existence of infinite or regardless long-lasting reinforcement waves, within letting them bloat the statistics excessively
I do like some challenge. I never tried difficulties like lunatic+ and lunatic reverse, but I have beaten birthright and revelation lunatic and 3H maddening once. I usually stick to hard modes for most playthroughs though.
I knew Fates would win, but im surprised FE10 Radiant Dawn was so high. Sure i was rooting for it to be a high place, but i didn't realize i murdered so many people in there. Geez
i seen that you mentioned all of these were on the highest difficulty. but did you count fe9 maniac ? bec alot'a people assume hard mode is the highest and it's actually not lol.
@@halvey_ ah ok. yeaah many players (even skilled ones) don't bother with it much or at all so that makes sense. I was pretty curious though. I would say it's enemy count is probably would've been around 1250 or above I'm guessing. 🤣it feels that way atleast. but anyway, great video regardless. I subbed. hope to see more of your content in the future.
You absolutely can see a noticable difference here between old-school FE and modern. Better design back in the day, unfortunately. Folks who came into the picture at FE13 and have never experienced the beforehand games, have been robbed of true Fire Emblem experience. FE15 is a bit of an outlier here because it's a pretty faithful remake of an Old-school game. It's also the least played of the post-Awakening games. Which says a lot. I have no desire to take away what folks enjoy. If you find the games fun, have at it. However, it's not really Fire Emblem anymore. The bones are there to some degree, but the polish and care, the intrigue, the stakes, the fantasy, it's pretty well gone. Now Intelligent Systems seems to be going the way of gross popularity. A lot of triple A titles have been, and I can understand how it breaks the hearts of longtime fans. Selling out values in order to make money, has always been and will always be signs of a lack of; good understanding, morality, virtue, worthiness and so on. Sure, you can make money, but what did you lose to gain that money? John 3:16-21 Authorized.
Def feel like only the infinite reinforcements should be excluded; also would love had the titles listed not jsut the numbers as not everyone knows each one individually especially when some will look quite similar from the footage.
At first when you said you weren’t counting reinforcements I was like “Hey! Reinforcements should count, right?” And then I remembered just how many games have infinite reinforcements and I decided you were a wise man.
Same
Yeah, the only other way to go about it is "only the first 20 turns of reinforcements count, plus any scripted spawns like FE4's". EDIT: I should also add here that even this is flawed, as FE5 trolls it by having a number of their infinite spawners being random chance per turn of spawning something, such as in chapter 4.
You mean just the new FE games? I don't think the gba games or even NES ones have infinite reinforcements.
@@Teinve nah, even some older games have infinite spawns.
I'd love to see these statistics taken and divided by the number of maps you counted as well to get an average unit density per map of each game. I have a feeling Radiant Dawn would end up with the highest number
In the words of our lord and savior Excelblem, "Radiant Dawn enemy phase be like"
@Scarlett FE4 would be the highest average at 97 per chapter. But if you would go by average per castle it would be 28.
FE10 averages 35 making it the second highest or the highest depending on how you look at FE4.
@@halvey_ 97 per chapter? Man, no wonder it's so satisfying to clear a map.
I find it amazing how massive FE10 is. I mean, it's only behind Fates that's actually 3 games and 3H that's 3.5 different stories. And while you could argue that FE10 is also 4 different stories, you still have to play them all in order, no split paths, gaiden chapters or paralogues.
So in that sense, it is the one with the more enemies?
since you encounter them all on the run
I somehow imaged you manually counting each unit on every map haha
Thankfully one of the FE wikis (the best one by far btw) has a detailed enemy list on each FE game and their chapters, where the number of initial enemies+ reinforcments is written
@@Anonymos185 some other poor sod did do it then
Which wiki would the best one be?
I think it would've been interesting to make statistics by ignoring the route splits and only taking into account the routing with the most enemies. I feel knowing which game throws the most enemies at you in a single playthrough is a more meaningful statistic than how many enemies are on the cartridge
I also thought taking the maps for each chapter in all the routes and averaging the number of enemies.
Wouldn't it be fairer to omit infinitely spawning reinforcements without turn limits? You can't just ignore reinforcements altogether when there are clear cases where you'll need to fight your way through them (e.g. Jedah's god-forsaken endless eyeball summoning), so I think a limit needs to established (i.e. reinforcement count will not exceed 20, or something)
I mean one map in Thracia has a turn limit (defense map) but it can spawn up to 50 enemies every turn. So you end up with like 500 units on that map alone.
@@GoonCommander Jesus...Holy Mother...if that's what the map designers want you to fight then +500 to the total
@@zer0name720 Nah theres tons of choke points and it's that the map can only hold 50 enemies but for every enemy that dies it spawns one more.
@@zer0name720 that's the issue tough is it designed for you to fight them all or actually make you rush the objective then you get into a whole other debate of how many turns of reinforcement should be included for each map and then calculation get very subjective and convoluted
@@bravepotatoe7513 The defense of Tahra's only "objective" is to survive, everything else you can do on that map is optional. You can't end the map any faster, all you can do is spawn more enemies by killing enemies.
No surprise fates was the highest given it kinda cheats via route splitting. I kinda expected 3h to win but the copypaste argument is solid.
Easy fates W.
Does that even count? Because it's not like you get all 3 routes in a playthrough
@@coldeed I see your point. I guess for the video's sake he made it with regards to all games but if we counted them separately for Fates then you'd be right in that they'd each be less individually compared to the rest
@@Blazingswordsman it'd still be individually more than quite a few entries on the list i think
10:26
If reinforcement were included I would not be surprised if radiant dawn was second place
the never ending enemy phases lmaoooo
Dope content, but the best part is the fact I swear I thought about this last week and now I get this video recommended. Gotta love it.
My initial thought was FE4, but I forgot that Fates was three games, so it makes sense that it has the highest count.
This is really cool data to see. I actually was working on getting unique map numbers from each of the games, because I thought it was an interesting metric to look at as well. I eventually stopped and never came back to it because of the complexity of counting unique maps in the multi-route games. Plus I wanted to specify main story maps vs side maps. A video on that subject would be super cool too!
Spot pass paralogues in Awakening are actually part of the main game, they're simply hidden. If you modify the rom and make the game threat them like regular chapters, they will all appear after completing chapter 25.
Eh, I think reinforcements are such a big part of Fire Emblem it feels wrong to just ignore them. I would have omitted the infinite ones and counted the rest.
Or just count all unique reinforcement waves a set number of times each.
Like, if a wave of 5 cavaliers spawns for 10 turns, just count the first 3 turns, meaning 5*3 enemies counted.
Thracia in particular have some very nasty reinforcement counts that aren't infinite.
Since birthright and conquest are technically different games, I would've counted them seperately (and then if including revelations, despite it technically being a DLC, I would've counted that seperately too for fairness)
Then for all other ***big*** route splits (so probably just three houses, I don't think the Eirika-Ephraim FE8 split requires seperate counts, but idk about other route splits I haven't mentioned) I'd also do seperate counts
Makes it fairer, since routes gave Fates and Three Houses unfair advantage even with the copypasting in Three Houses.
I don't know why I expected the Archanean saga to have more enemies.
this was so cool to see sending you a big like
I feel like outright not including any reinforcements is a bit disingenuous to the idea of the video, since reinforcements can easily double the number of enemies in a map. Of course infinite reinforcements would make counting them awful, but I think that a solution would be to count the instances in which a reinforcement is infinite or lasts an extremely long time.
For example, quite a few maps in Conquest have infinitely spawning enemies, such as the eternal stairway, final chapter, and Siegbert’s map, while maps like chapter 4 in Thracia have randomly spawning soldiers from turns 8 to 60. These would probably be marked separately as “infinite reinforcements”
What difficulty did you use? Did you use the normal, hard, or "lunatic" modes? lunatic is in quotes because of the different names like fe16 using maddening instead of lunatic and some games have a lunatic+ mode which makes way more enemies with broken skills which is basically impossible without really thinking too hard on it or just cheesing it
I think the fe6 fire dragons in idunn’s map actually do stop spawning at around turn 83
Yeah let me just sit here being bombarded for 83 turns. I would rather be forced to do what mitten squad did and no damage Pokemon Emerald then force myself through FE6 again.
@@ak47groupAKM I wasn’t recommending you sit there and wait it out it just does have an end and it’s an absurd one. Also fe6 slays ur mad
@@1japanfan883 I enjoy FE6 but the Dragon Swarm has killed so many runs. I just got to get good I guess.
@@ak47groupAKM you can usually just boots roy at the secret shop in chapter 24 I believe then you can beat the final map on turn 1 with a dance
@@1japanfan883 I played it blind, so I had no idea where anything secret might have been. I kept playing without looking anything up because for me blind playthrough is more fun. I might try it again.
FE9 definitely surprised me.
Did you do this on the hardest difficulty available for each game?
Yes. I decided that would be best.
I played all FE games, and I enjoy pretty much all of them, but I don't remember everything in each one of them.
While you were saying FE2, FE5, FE8, etc, I was looking at the graphics and hoping you would pass by a character to help me identify which game you're talking about. Maybe having the protagonist image showing up in the side for each game you're talking about would help.
Which difficulties were these done on? I know for sure with FE9 that enemy totals would spike
all were on max difficulties available except fe9. he mentioned that he couldn't gather enough info about maniac mode so he went with hard mode instead. I'd imagine the enemy count would be above 1,250.
There was a very easy way to count reinforcements.
Just count every unqiue reinforcement group once, or a maximum of say, 3 times.
That way you can still account for the existence of infinite or regardless long-lasting reinforcement waves, within letting them bloat the statistics excessively
i feel like at least some reinforcements should be counted, like first turn reinforcements ateast
So, do you like challenging Fire Emblem games?
I do like some challenge. I never tried difficulties like lunatic+ and lunatic reverse, but I have beaten birthright and revelation lunatic and 3H maddening once. I usually stick to hard modes for most playthroughs though.
Count based on default 'normal' difficulty?
I used the highest difficulty for each game.
I knew Fates would win, but im surprised FE10 Radiant Dawn was so high. Sure i was rooting for it to be a high place, but i didn't realize i murdered so many people in there. Geez
Could you make a separate count with the reinforcement? Maybe putting a turn limit on the infinite reinforcement maps
I'll try to figure something out.
I own three of the top 5 games in terms of enemies... I'm only missing fe16 and fe4
i seen that you mentioned all of these were on the highest difficulty. but did you count fe9 maniac ? bec alot'a people assume hard mode is the highest and it's actually not lol.
I actually counted in hard mode. I couldn't find all the info for maniac mode.
@@halvey_ ah ok. yeaah many players (even skilled ones) don't bother with it much or at all so that makes sense. I was pretty curious though. I would say it's enemy count is probably would've been around 1250 or above I'm guessing. 🤣it feels that way atleast. but anyway, great video regardless. I subbed. hope to see more of your content in the future.
Wonder where FE Engage will place
You absolutely can see a noticable difference here between old-school FE and modern. Better design back in the day, unfortunately. Folks who came into the picture at FE13 and have never experienced the beforehand games, have been robbed of true Fire Emblem experience. FE15 is a bit of an outlier here because it's a pretty faithful remake of an Old-school game. It's also the least played of the post-Awakening games. Which says a lot. I have no desire to take away what folks enjoy. If you find the games fun, have at it. However, it's not really Fire Emblem anymore. The bones are there to some degree, but the polish and care, the intrigue, the stakes, the fantasy, it's pretty well gone. Now Intelligent Systems seems to be going the way of gross popularity. A lot of triple A titles have been, and I can understand how it breaks the hearts of longtime fans. Selling out values in order to make money, has always been and will always be signs of a lack of; good understanding, morality, virtue, worthiness and so on. Sure, you can make money, but what did you lose to gain that money?
John 3:16-21 Authorized.
Surprised smash ultimate didn’t make the list
I mean
It's obviously Warriors
what about fe9 maniac mode
Def feel like only the infinite reinforcements should be excluded; also would love had the titles listed not jsut the numbers as not everyone knows each one individually especially when some will look quite similar from the footage.
It’s radiant dawn. I don’t think think I have to watch. It’s radiant dawn.
I want to like to supporter, but the 666 is too perfect. Good job.
red units, all those poor souls.
FE6 Ambush Spawns…
Too afraid to count all the enemies in Three Hopes? lmao