A Box of Vintage Watchmaking Tools and Parts from G & J Watch Repair
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2023
- In September 2023 I visited Las Cruces, New Mexico and met Ed Ceniceros, the proprietor of G & J Watch Repair. Ed gave me a box of vintage watchmaking tools and parts. In this video I go through the contents of the box and try to figure out what's what.
Multiple viewers kindly sent me links to several pdfs of old watchmaking catalogues that are very helpful in identifying vintage watchmaking tools. Those pdfs are now available on the documents page of ishootwatches.com.
Thanks Ed!!!
G & J Watch Repair
Edward Ceniceros
Mesilla Valley Mall
700 S. Telshore Blvd.
Las Cruces, NM 88011
tel: +1-480-677-1564
email: cake5622@gmail.com
Here's a link to the AliExpress Eakins microscope that I use product page (affiliate link):
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dm3...
Here's the link to @JDRichard's video about the watchmaker's Ballon Chuck / Balance Chuck:
• Watchmaker Ballon Chuc...
And here's a link to a NAWCC page about it:
mb.nawcc.org/threads/balance-...
Before opening any vintage watch or clock for the first time (or even a box of tools or parts) I recommend checking it for radium paint. For more information on radium and how to check for it using a geiger counter see this video:
• Do This Before You Ope...
My videos are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Critical / corrective comments and links to resources including other watchmaking channels are welcome.
#vintage #watchmaker #tools 
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Wow, nice box of toys. Enjoy!!!
Thanks!
26.28 is a jewel pusher, second is a pocket watch movement winder, third is for adjusting the crown on a pocket watch case.
As per movement holders. They are not all designed to clamp the movement. Some old holders are no more than a set of wood or plastic graduated cups.
Great bow of toys, thank you for sharing. Not missing anything, the stake goes down through the center.
Balance screw under cutters cut the inside of the screw. Usually preferred to a balance screw cutter which cuts the outside of the screw. Used as an aid in balance poising.
Thanks! I did not know that was a jewel pusher for pocket watches at 26:28! Does that fit into some kind of staking tool or is it just used hand-held on top of a staking plate? I've seen some early Boley or Star staking tools that were just the plate without the neck and punch holder but it seems for jeweling one might want a bit more precision such as the micrometers on Horia and Seitz jeweling tools. In any case, thanks for your comment and answers!
@@IShootWatches no need for a staking tool, just used free hand. Used for pushing out set jewels, screwed in or friction fit, as found in most pocket watches, not for burnished jewels. To replace the jewels you would want to use a staking set or a jewel in press. For burnished jewels you’re right, you need a higher level of precision and a few extra tools.
I hope I made that a bit clearer than mud. Great content on your channel, can’t believe I hadn’t found you sooner. I subscribed and I’m catching up on your earlier videos. Thank you for sharing.
@@markclelland3510 Thanks Mark! That explanation is great. Check out the link to ishootwatches dot com for earlier videos (by end of next week everything should be up there ad-free). And thanks for watching!
The Jewel pusher is for removing pocket watch balance jewel chatons from their seats in the main plate and balance cock. These are held in by screws and only very lightly friction fit. All of your friction fit chatons and jewels should use a jewling set to safely remove.
39:54 is indeed the box for the balance screw under cutters. The paper with the roller remover image is an advertisement for the roller remover set of which you have one component and are missing the rest. You can see the sharp ridges on the tubes protruding from the top of the tool. Those are sharp and designed to scape the metal off the bottom of a balance screw. Its used when you are poising a balance and you need to remove weight. You can either file off the end of a screw which looks horrible, or you can undercut it.
Thanks Devon! All great comments and I'm sure they'll be useful to many because you don't simply identify the tool but also include very clear and practical notes about their uses! Very kind of you to take the time! I appreciate it very much!
Those tapered brass pins from the one box, are used to pin down the dial and back plate on a fussee pocket watch. Just watched a restoration video on one.
Thanks! I just got one of those! Can't wait to make a video about it.
V nice video from Pakistan kpk 👋
Thanks! I recently watched @baldandbankrupt's recent video about Pakistan. Amazing country! So beautiful! ruclips.net/video/3sSHfbnPPSM/видео.html
@@IShootWatches thanks u so much
@@bakhtswati Thank You!
At 1:03 :24 those look like pocket watch stems - hard to tell but they look pretty beefy?
Yes, thanks! They are quite big. I have a miscellaneous stem collection they'll be joining soon!
I went to High School in El Paso. I’ve been to that mall many moons ago. Small world.
Hi Heath! That's cool! Yes, very small world!
The fine sawdust was used to dry watch parts after they were cleaned. The sawdust absorbed the cleaning solvent.
Yeah, I love that. So counterintuitive!
The item at 36:28 is a marshall cleaning basket retaining spring. It ensures that your cleaning basket stays properly in place agaist the round frame. Wish i could post a pic to show how it on a working mastermatic.
Thanks! I thought I would never find out what that is! That's amazing! I don't need it but someone who has the basket but not the spring will and eventually I'll make sure this one finds them!
Marvelous
Obrigado Roberto!
The item at 31:07 is a roller table removing tool for a staking set, item at 31:57 goes with your truing calipers, items at 33:00 both tapered collet tools for a lathe ballon chuck not sur on the other, item at 34.22 is for a staking set for removing balance staff, items at 36:33 look like dust covers for pocket watch, item at 37:49 piece of aluminum round stock, lots of good stuff
Thanks Glen!
33:00 You are right, this goes in a lathe. The work piece would be glued to the front, either with shellac, wax or these days superglue
Nice! Thanks!
Nice Dayton awesome treasure of watchmaking tools ..... just love to see the old tools and boxes !!! i hope ones in my life to get a little haul like this in holland its rare to find this kind of tools !! wow nice big cannon pinion removal tool kalle from cronoglide uses this sometime to ... those punches you call the watchkeys a lot of sizes for clocks to wind them ... know your vibrator lol
"Know your vibrator!" Ha! 😂😂😂 I think they must have known that was a double entendre. Hilarious! Thanks for watching and your comment about the watch keys!
🤣@@IShootWatches
Holy ****, what a haul! I can already see several things I got on eBay for way too much lol, and some things I still need. HUGE comment coming up, so stop now if you don't want to read 😄.
3:29 I have the exact same Watchcraft mainspring winder set, but it's missing a lid heh. Do the hooks on the arbors on all of them look to be intact? 5:50 those expandable K&D winders are great, and hard to find! 8:23 I also have an extremely similar (basically a clone) of the Marshall winders you got, and it's all pocket watch sizes.
13:58 you're right on the gravers (although your pronunciation is extremely French -- gonna have to get you beret if you keep saying it like that 😂). The small movement holder at 16:19 looks to be for old ladies watches, many of which were "baguette" movements, where they're longer than they are wide, or more of an oval shape, thus many old movement holders were made special for them.
17:33 agreed on the truing calipers, the one with the hinged center isn't a great tool. On the better Watchcraft set, I believe each side does have different size pivot holes. I was also going to say it looks to be missing the slide piece, but it's the part you find at 31:47 (Google Bergeon 1883-4 and you'll see what I mean).
19:45 is a canon pinion remover, and they're not cheap! I severely overpaid for a NOS one on eBay. Bergeon still makes the same exact tool for $100, or an all metal version for $200 😉, so great pick up! The balloon chucks you're on top of already, and I don't have a lathe so can't really speak to them anyhow.
26:45 those are bench keys, for winding old pocket watches that don't have keyless winding. Now like @WatchWithMike said, you may also have a wheel in there for a leather punch, but the tool for using it is different. Like he mentioned, they have a plier style end, where it closes the punch against a flat piece of metal in order to cut through the leather. The bench key tool is basically just a stick that mounts the rolling keys, and you rotate it until the one you need is parallel to the handle and facing forward.
30:00 is a Rex roller remover like that manual says 😄. I've been trying to get a set for a while! Looks like you're missing some bits, but the bottom cylindrical part you thought might go into a pin vise just drops into the hole plate on your staking set. Our friend JD Richard has a video where he shows how they're used, just search, "One Tools and a Guy - Using a Vintage Roller Remover."
Probably shouldn't mention this part, since again I have no lathe experience, but 32:32 looks to be some type of collet. Usually the end of a collet is split, so it can clamp on a range of shaft sizes, but maybe this threaded one is just a different type or application specific. It looks like the red stuff on the end of the brass is possibly old shellac too. All I can think of is maybe for cutting teeth on wheels? You could mount a brass wheel with the shellac to keep it from rotating while you cut the teeth?
34:04 is a K&D #50 balance staff remover! That's a $75-$100 right there, and not always easy to get. There's a 50 and 50B AFAIK (size difference), so not sure which one you got there. 40:03 are indeed balance screw undercutters. They take weight/material out of balance screws. I have no experience doing it, but just Google, "balance screw undercutting" and check out the first result.
42:08 yeah just movement holders I think. Then you got lots of old spare parts to play with too, good for learning with your new tools perhaps, very nice! 1:17:25 I did NOT know about this Mikrolisk website! That's a great resource wow, thanks for putting that in -- your research of brands and history is always fascinating, and it's one of my favorite aspects of horology too.
Love both of those old Rolexes, and it's awesome the one with radium is still glowing so bright. Just gorgeous vintage timepieces, and with such cool personal stories attached. Oh and that's really fascinating about the Mexican Rolex bracelets! I had no idea, and I think it's neat you engraved it back in '87. I was busy being a 1 year old at the time 😂, and who cares about value since it's always going to be yours!
Phew, sorry for the exhaustve comment! I am just shocked he handed you all this stuff to be honest, what an awesome guy. Hopefully your video brings him some business in return. Congrats Dayton!!
Wow, Turbo! You're better than google image! Thanks! I'm very impressed by how much you know! You must have been doing some serious watchmaking and kit building over the past year or two! I will have to do some follow-up videos on each of these tools now that I know what they're for!
I would never have guessed what the K&D # 50 balance staff remover was even though I'm obsessed with balance staff removal.
Also that extra part for the balance wheel truing caliper. I know there's a similar part on the Bergeon truing caliper with the wooden handle but I still didn't see the connection on this one. Thanks so much!
I fumbled the whole Mikrolisk demo but I'm happy you appreciate that. I found the same Progressia spelling and the exact logo that's on the dial on Mikrolisk before I made the video but when the cameras were running I got bogged down. Internet resources like that and Ranfft are amazing but they take time to dig into...
1 year old in 1987! I'm happy for you, Son! You still have lots of time to put your knowledge and skills to use. I already feel like I'm fighting to learn enough to be useful before I can no longer see or hold the tools without shaking! 😂😂😂
Thanks again for all of your comments and for sharing your knowledge!
Oh wow, that is one turbo-charged response! Awesome feedback. Thanks for taking the time to lay out all your answers. So much great info in this comments section!
Thanks Dayton! Honestly I've just spent way too many hours reading over forum posts and soaking up watchmaking content on RUclips 😂
And don't worry about getting too old for this hobby either. Elon Musk is going to give us all neurolink devices, we'll have a timergrapher built into our heads, it'll be great 🤣🤣
Thanks @@WatchWithMike! I have a never ending curiosity for weird facts and esoteric hobbies 😂 Loving your content as well!
Nice haul! I'm only halfway through the video, but I think I have some answers… Need to do a little more research before making my guesses public!😂 Those punches on the rotary wheel go in a tool that looks like pliers, and the punches press against an anvil on the other plier jaw. I associate it with leather working. I'm looking forward to seeing other peoples answers as they roll in!
Thanks Mike! Nice talking to you just now!
Mike and I just talked for three hours on Facetime. I think that both of our channels are extensions of our enthusiasm for this hobby.
It truly gives a person endless stuff to talk about, questions to ask, and knowledge to share: all totally pointless in the grand scheme of things but super interesting and fun none-the-less! 😂😂😂
Thanks to everyone that chipped in answers about this video! Asking you guys went way better than I expected!
Amazing!
Thanks again for your friendship Mike!
@@IShootWatches Thank you too, Dayton!
Hey Mike, the tools you are talking about (looks like part of a leather punch) are actually for winding down old pocket watches. Basically once you remove the winding crown & stem, you match the contact surface to the proper key, then insert the key tool into the winding stem tube until it engages on the surface, then you turn it down to release the energy of the mainspring in a controlled manner. I recently watched a video of an old English pocket watch restoration and that’s what they showed the tool used for. Cheers 🍻
24 min in, thanks
Thank you!
On the Cannon Pinion puller, that is the patent date (Feb 3, 1942). The actual patent number is US 2271945. If you read the patent, it is also intended as a minute and hour hand remover. Never seen one used in that manner and not sure that I'd even attempt that. I've seen these in two different sizes. One that will do cannon pinions of 1.2mm diameter and larger, and one that does wrist watch sized cannon pinions. Those rings with 4 and 2 pronged bits are sleeve wrenches for pocket watches. They adjust the sleeve in the crown tube to so the crown can wind as well as set the time. Sleeve too far one way, you can wind and not set the time or the converse. At 31:52, that goes to the balance truing caliper back at 18:30. Adjust the black arm to be near the rim of the balance wheel and when you spin the balance, you can visually see if the wheel wobbles or not. There is another small tool that goes with that (flat metal piece with a notch) to use to bend the wheel to get it to spin true. At 35:00 that is a K&D balance staff remover for a staking tool. You need the proper stake for that to tap out the balance staff. I believe the screw under cutters are to shave off weight on balance wheel screws (threaded side of the screw) when poising the wheel.
Thanks! I love it that you read the patent and shared that info! That’s super cool! I’m also interested to better understand the mechanics of the pocket watch and sleeve wrench! I’ll definitely look at that in detail in an upcoming video about pocket watches! Thanks!
@@IShootWatches Lots of cool stuff there. I'm still pretty new to watchmaking (as a hobby) and find it very interesting to learn about these old watchmaking tools. I am trying to build my own set of tools, many vintage. I just ordered a microscope like yours and am looking forward to using it.
14:00 engravers
So RUclips said that you mention me in your video
Hi JD! At 23:54 Dayton shows your balloon chuck video. Good stuff!
@@WatchWithMike hey thanks
Yes, thanks JD! I have learned a lot from your videos!
36:36 and before - dust rings from pocket watches
Very cool! Thanks! I actually thought it was just scrap metal! Now I know to keep an eye out for how they are used!
On Elgin (American pronunciation is Eljin with a soft g. British use a hard G.) Full plate Pocket watches there are 2 channels in the top plate and bottom plate that meet at the barrel. These slide in the channels on the outside of the plates around the watch to create a dust cover. The little tabs help you push it in place and extract it. The hole on the one is to allow for the winding stem.
At 27.47 you have two pocket watch sleeve wrenches
Thanks!
before looks like bench keys for pocket watchs but not like others i have seen@@IShootWatches
Thanks @@pickerelpieentertainment3226 !
I would like to get the cannon pinion remover from you.
Thanks. I’m a buyer not a seller (unless I end up with two or more of something) but there are several just like it on Ebay right now.
34:10 is a balance staff remover. It is a staking set accessory that allows you to safely break the rivot on a balance staff without bending the balance wheel. Not really a recommended tool since the rivot should be cut out with a graver on a lathe. You are missing the punch that goes with it. J.D. Richard has videos showing its usage.
As for usage you place you balance wheel and staff with the roller table and hairspring removed in a hole on your staking set that is just larger than the staff. You place the viewfinder side over the staff and then you screw the the top part up snug to the bottom of the staking punch tube. You use the metal Bar sticking out of the side to snug it tight. Then use place the punch that comes with the tool into the punch tube. You can use the viewfinder to ensure you are over the pivot on the staff. The you can hammer out the staff without bending the arms on the balance wheel
Thanks! I noticed that this is too high for my Star staking tools. It seems to require a K&D Inverto staking tool (or that amount of vertical clearance anyway).
Very cool! Thank you for this detailed explanation!
Hi Mr.Dayton, Please upload AS1916 Movment Full Service Video If You Have. Thanks, Uday Rathod. (India)
Okay, sure! I'll have my archive manager look through my massive archive of unpublished full-service videos! 😂😂😂
Пинцеты 👍, остальное мусор....
Ха-ха! 😂😂
The first set of tweezers look like they are intended for hairspring manipulation.
The cannon pinion is for cannon pinions only, these are very valuable now as the modern equivalent does not go small enough for most wrist watches
The round spikes things are various bench keys used mostly for pocket watches when they’re out of the case for winding
The items at 32 minutes and the one a couple before look like a copy of the K&D balance staff removal kit to be used on a staking set
The tubes are likely for replacement bushing but I have only seen brass ones
After cleaning parts were dried in sawdust