SYSTEMIC RACISM ISNT ABOUT THE LAW. Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an ORGANIZATION. (such as banks) Ben's video is worth watching as it raises some good points and showcases some holes in the idea that all inequality is linked to systemic racism. Some of his counter arguments were a little odd but still, I thought it was a decent video and he didnt misrepresents studies like many people do. Now to clarify some points. - Just because companies have policies against Redlining it doesnt mean they dont do it. Having a law in place does not mean there arent systemic problems in place. If institutions know redlining is illegal but it is profitable to Redline, despite crackdowns there is still an incentives to do so under the current system. This doesnt mean the U.S. govt is inherently complicity or that were all encouraging it, it simply is an indication of institutions (banking in this case) still engaging in racist behavior. These arent individuals, these are a series of large unrelated banks discriminating against large groups of people. If you're trying to say "its not so bad anymore, we have a law" whilst the practice is still fkin over minorities its really not a productive contribution. For minorities, the law being there sounds great until you realize you still may be suffering the same. - The black names. The point isn't whether they are common or not. Im talking about peoples perception of names. And if the study wanted to accurately see whether or not there is implicit bias based off "traditionally black sounding names", they should use names that may evoke bias. Jefferson while common amongst blacks is also not strange to hear on many white people and the most famous Jefferson remains white. Our perception of the name does not clearly evoke a race the same way Mahammed, or shaniqua or Kim-Soo Yun does. Hence why the study is faulty.
This is why you are respected. You will notice the comments are trying to split everything down the middle and create sides. When this isn't what you are trying to do. Speaks of the current times unfortunately. Always worth listening to the other side, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle, or you cannot force someone to change their mind in a way that is genuinely accepted and lasts without resentment. In any direction. We should arrive at our own perspectives with the blessing of others as long as we have weeded out genuine prejudice and any evident falsehoods. Too much like hard work and doesn't score points for most it seems.
systemic racism factors in maybe 25% inqeuqlaity the rest of it, is single mothers that can't raise sons, (fucking tyron and ray ray), the other parts decisions, i have seen alot of blacks and women in particular like to be victims instead of changing their reality. i am a black and i worked hard signle parent house we were poor, very poor
Isn’t it refreshing to have people debate on this subject, disagreeing and agreeing on many aspects and not scream/condemn each other. Healthy discussion is the way forward
@@Tee9156 agreed, however without being able to discuss it in an open forum, it can never be addressed. To say it's useless to discuss it because nothing has changed at the end of the discussion is exactly what has prevented change from happening, because when there is no communication about it, people ignore it unless it directly effects them. We can't wave a magic wand and make it disappear, but through discussion we can begin the process of change.
T. Yahaya What has Aba & Preach achieved with their analysis and diverse views on Bens perspective of the video? In which Ben also analyses a video. My comment is about the way Aba & Preach handle Bens perspective on the video mentioned. I hope you ask that same question to Aba & Preach rather than a viewer who appreciates their civil debate/discussion.
No no, when I watch you watching these 2 guys watching Ben Shapiro watching a video, then let's talk abo... uh.. I.. I forgot what I was trying to say.
You guys should contact Ben and have a talk with him. He has a segment that he calls a Sunday special where he sits down and has a discussion with people. I think it would be an interesting conversation.
as an independent that is more right leaning, you guys did a great job at being critical/understanding when necessary. Y'all brought up points I hadnt considered and I appreciate and thank you guys for your open mindedness and intellect. Thank you for being a voice on the internet that applies cognitive thinking rather than emotional thoughts. I appreciate this video so muchand think you guys created a great opportunity for debate/education! i hope yall have a great year!
This! The reason why I used to be strictly right was because I thought my only other option was to believe other extreme values like how in this case, systemic racism is the sole reason why people don’t move up. A lot of people around me preached this and it really freaked me out. I love how this channel makes such a good discussion about it. It’s things like this that made me realize I can think a little bit of both and still be ok
This is exactly why I listen to you guys. It is not screeching “white people evil” it is not “poor black kids have it easy because of affirmative action “ You guys aren’t cheerleaders for one side.
Same ! I truly love what they're doing although they've got a few things wrong here. Shapiro tries to debunk systemic racism. If a law has been passed, then the racism isn't from the system, it's from individuals. Of course there is still tons of individuals who are racist, but the fact is that in the system, in the laws, america gives equal rights. Even if they are represented by a presumably racist person, even if there are racist companies schools banks that are represented by racists, it IS a shame, but it is not SYSTEMIC. MLK said himself we need to stop putting racism on the table if we wanna see it go. It's like smoking, if you wanna stop smoking, thinking about NOT smoking is still thinking about smoking. Thinking racism is BAD is great and all, but it still means we're all thinking about racism, whatever the opinion is on it ... :/
@@gabrielcat72 I guess it all depends on how systemic racism is defined? Even if the laws are changed, if the system itself was set up that way and continues to operate that way, can you then say systemic racism no longer exists because there is no law to support it?
@@Missreepee exactly ! It's all about definition. I just wonder, what is there to do beyond laws collectively? Where can we make a REAL difference ? Individually, respect for sure.''Be the change you wanna see in the world''. But dont you think our energy should be invested towards other very racist and sexist countries ? Some serious cases out of america and they could really use our help I dare to think
@Jaskaran Singh another great compilation of individual racism. Nothing systemic here. We re all part of the system and so individual racism is also systemic because every individual is part of the and a system? Its like drugs. They're illegal mostly but people still takem, what are you going to do ? I aknowledge there are problems but they come from persons, not the law. Your point is some people in the law are racist, cool, we get it, but is it proveable ? If yes, sanctions , if not, move on. There is systemic racism in many places in the world (racist AND sexist law) how about we adress that ? We cant change anyone but ourselves, but we CAN change laws, so lets focus on what we can do ^^
Aba and preach are the safe haven of my centrist political outlook. Literal breath of fresh air. Not trying to push an agenda - just their honest, rational opinions.
I think I’m more right leaning but if centrist came out more I would be that. I align my values more with centrist, it’s just that I’m today’s politics we don’t even have a voice. You either have to be left or right. Most people are mild mannered thinkers that align with centrist (independent ) values. I think centrism is what America needs, it would definitely help us come together.
@@danielhernandez-vo9zc mhm I agree. I'd say I'm probably more centre-left, but occasionally I do share some mildly right wing values (e.g modesty). but yeah centrists unfortunately don't really have much of a voice - I don't know why but people only ever listen to the most extreme of each side 😔. I agree that centrism is what America needs, as well as the rest of the world. Everything is best in moderation.
@@cutieowl347 We are seen as indecisive because we don't swear allegiance to any fixed ideologies. I'm fine with this, we are at a unique time in the west. If government doesn't completely implode upon itself, we will see the proof that injecting some moderate thinking is the only solution to appease all citizens. We used to entertain the extremes of both sides, but the average person is far more intelligent because they have the capacity to inform themselves more than ever. This brings about the need for moderate leadership, because the moderate leader actual takes the needs of everyone into account objectively, rather than rallying for a class or group due to a stereotype. (Like a political class.)
But, you all gotta remember the fault with your own political siding as well. The fault with the Centrist approach is that it doesn't create results fast enough for the mass because it has to navigate both sides, and can find it's own extreme of extreme balance like a line instead of a wave because too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. People want answers, results, even if they are placebo effects only, which the left and the right exemplify amazingly well. Sometimes a bad answer is better than no answer.
My take on what Ben means by "systemic" is racism supported by the system (government, laws). These guys are right, just because it's not legal doesn't mean it isn't happening. But what I take from Ben's video is that it is no longer systemic but it is now individual racism (the banker is racist, not the system)
Exactly this, the systemic element is removed by the legal change and active prosecution of offenders. However, the original video raises a good point. The implication of the system does create bias but unfortunately this is hard or nearly impossible to quantify..
@@craigmcdonnell1719 it is hard to quantify, but i think it is declining very fast. I believe that the way to get it to decline is to not talk about race, and ignore the difference between the races, so long as it doesn't hurt other values... And the bias will vanish, and there will be only bias based on logical and economical decisions. Which are inevitable in any economy. As i believe peterson says, in capitalism, there will be always a disparity between the rich and poor, but those groups are maliable, and its beter than communism, in which every one is poot, or dead, or an evil dictator or his followers...
@@ronlerner1755 not talking about is an angle for sure but in a widely viewed perspective the better approach would be to stop the ideology that there are multiple races and start teaching the belief that there is only one race. The human race. In a perfect world this would be the best solution to remove the belief that skin color defines you as a race. We all have a heart, brain, liver, and we all bleed red. I will say the most recent generations have definitely made the most progress with eliminating the diversity between the different walks of life and that is a beautiful thing to see. Hopefully one day one love will be the way.
@@benjamincarnes9117 true, but i dont really think that there are schools that actually teach the racial differences between the races... So i think, by not talking about it, it will disappear from thought...
Can I just say the comment section here is like the least toxic, most heart warming gathering of totally different people who disagree. I kept scrolling to see any hate or disrespect and didn't see a single instance of it. I don't know what you guys did to curate such a great audience but kudos. Literally got the warm fuzzies.
I think the point he was making is that the "system" of "systemic racism" has changed and no longer supports that racism. This doesnt eliminate racism in total, it just makes it illegal to use it in the systemic fashion. Again, I'm pretty sure Ben was clearly saying systemic racism so it would be understood as the system no longer being racist. This, again, doesnt mean that people running banks arent racist or limiting lending to those races they dont like.
Those interested in more Ben view points should watch most lectures he puts out when he states that if you can find an example of racism he will 100% stand beside you and fight, but one instance does not mean the entire system is racist. Let's get these guys to talk with Ben. More fruitful to understand how people come to their conclusion. Talk it out.
He made that point about as easy to grasp as he could. A lot of the discussions and talks Ben does seems to fly over people's heads anyway because they get emotional about it. And it isn't intentional. And this isn't saying anyone is dumb. They just need more context, and a "debunk" clip isn't going to capture that.
Most “Historically” black last names are the last name of their master’s to identify which plantations they’re from. Freeman might be the only true historically black last name. This statement isn’t actually historically accurate, many slaves picked their last names after their abolition. Some who’d bought or earned their freedom prior took on the last name Freeman as a receipt or statement of their freedom signifying they could not be bought or sold. Also thank you for bringing to my attention freeman is a English word or words which apparently aren’t native to Africa or even America. Who knew?!! Yet the compound words “Free”and “Man” held a significant meaning for black Americans during and after slavery. So based on our history the interpretation/application will be different from those who aren’t us.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 Ben's arguments aren't as solid as he'd like you to believe. When you actually fact check and dive into his sources you start noticing a lot of holes and discrepancies. Just like in this video he citied a study that actually disproved the point he was trying to make. But ofc in the public and crowd debate format no one can put his arguments under that level of scrutiny in the moment so it seems like he's "destroying them" when he's just talking fast and (sometimes) saying nonsense. He does occasionally have really solid arguments too but more often than not his points and sources are filled with holes and contradictions.
He actually debunked systemic racism if his definition of systemic is legal racism. It is clear that he wasn't trying to debunk the fact that racism exists. He admits the reality of racism. However, the racism that exists is not sanctioned by law. I am not saying he is correct in his understanding of systemic racism. I am simply pointing out that his title was not clickbait.
My opinion lines with yours, racism exists but that's because people suck and its not just white ppl.. from my point of view and the life I lived with the people around me I see more racism twords whites then anything els especially from natives.. I live in Canada and I understand that people in are past did really horrible things 😔 but tbh most humans have zero ability to rationalize .... like ya keep fucking hating 😒 keep blaming people for things that happened before either one of us was even born .. bet that will get you far ohhh wait I don't gotta bet just look around
These twos whole definition of systemic racism is because of ONE case of redlining since 1960. Everyone wants to be a victim nowdays it's insane. Want some get out of poverty? GET A JOB. period, that simple. there's A LOT of lazy people in this country and want to blame everything on someone else rather than taking personal responsibility for your own life. And Whyte people seem to be an easy target nowdays
@@anthonydavis9382 dude no.... you are talking out of your ass.. " get a job if you don't want to be poor" probably some stupid kid ... I know people that work two jobs that don't make as much as I do .. stay in school if not go back
@@Sourkeyz you are a liar. With a name like yours i even doubt you have a job. If you had 2 jobs, you would be making upwards of 50k thousand a year, minimum. And if that is lower class, then you must be RICH
@@anthonydavis9382 haha an alias created by my youngest son, I take no offense bud . I own a very small company that builds a home or two a month so im more then a 6 figure family but thats besides the Point we were getting at
"We're arguing it is both." Holy hell, finally, someone FINALLY takes a moderate position! Can systemic racism co-exist with poor personal choices? Absolutely!
Exactly, when you have racism it’s just harder to over come those terrible personal choice. It makes it harder, but it isn’t the sole reason for failure. I wish people would understand that, the problem everyone is so into tribal politics no ones wants to give ground and acknowledge when the other side is right. Everyone just needs to meet in the middle and stop yelling at each other.
@Kurgen Eagletail well if they don't hire you for being black you could always just starve to death and then they can say it is your fault for not being skilled aka white.
@@Tethloach1 When the economy was booming before covid, black unemployment was at an all time low. Didn't really seem like ti took any convincing to get companies to hire black people.
@Nate "Can systemic racism co-exist with poor personal choices?" It can, but it demonstrably doesn't at this point in time. 80 years ago, you'd have found it to be mostly systemic racism holding black people back(and yet the black middle class was growing), and not personal decisions. That has done a complete 180 flip onto it's head, and all the evidence points to that. The harder researchers try to prove widespread racism exists typically the more they prove it doesn't. So you have SJW types making the argument that modern racism is invisible through implicit bias, you can't see it, but IT'S THERE! Even if there are no measurable effects of this racism, and the only way it can be proved to exist is with a special purity test that you must take to prove you are not racist, and when you invariably fail that test, you must pay them money to cleanse your soul which is of course a never ending process. Or you have people attributing the actions of individuals, or small groups, to society at large, which is almost a dumber argument in a nation of over 300 million. To be clear there are still racists, and those racists do still cause harm, but by definition that does not constitute systemic racism. Unlike in the past, today if you encounter a racist who won't give you a job no matter how qualified you are, there's 100 other businesses down the street that will gladly have you. Larry Elder's story about his father talks about this, he endured a lot of racism is trying to get a job, but by the time larry was entering the work force it had changed so much it was almost a non issue. That is the problem I think we have today is that nobody can accept when things change, especially when that change is rapid. You had violent counter protests against the civil rights movement in the mid to late 60's, and within 2 decades things had changed dramatically. By the end of 1968 you'd already had the first interracial kiss on broadcast television in star trek. Multiple pieces of anti discrimination legislation were passed with in some cases almost no resistance, schools were integrated, black people began to become more and more present in popular culture, and by the 80's, within 2 decades, you had millions and millions of white kids who either wanted to grow up to be michael jackson or michael jordan, and the kkk was bankrupted from a single lawsuit over the last known race based hanging of a black man, where 3 of the 4 perpetrators got life in prison and the other got the electric chair in a former klan stronghold state. Most people honestly couldn't wrap their head around that rapid of a change, less than a generation. Even wit some setbacks self reporting surveys had shown steady increase in perceived race relations in the USA all the way up through both terms of bush jr's presidency, then the first black president is elected with 70% of the white vote and suddenly the country starts reversing progress on race relations out of nowhere and now a lot of people accept as a matter of course that we just live in a horribly racist country. It's mind games to divide people as far as I am concerned. I think the exact same phenomena exists with the LGBTQ community, up until very recently even the democratic establishment was anti gay marriage. That changed rapidly, gay marriage was legalized, most people realized it was a non-issue and quit caring and everyone got on with their lives. However gay people had bee oppressed for so long they didn't know how to process that virtually overnight they gained pretty wide acceptance and even staunch conservatives barely care about the issue anymore. I think the response has been the push for acceptance of more and more obscure and/or ridiculous things as some sort of test/proof that things didn't really change, and they've pushed all the way to the point of they aren't even happy with equality, they want you to flat out endorse homosexuality and admit it's equal if not superior or something. It just keeps going to farther extremes of what the activists want because they can't accept that they won their fight, and it probably didn't feel like it was even a fight there at the end.
About the Washington and Jefferson last name thing, history lesson time. When slavery in the US legally ended, many former slaves had to literally make up last or surnames for themselves as they did not have one before. This caused many to just use well known or famous last names like Washington and Jefferson. Tidbit of history, thanks to whoever reads this comment.
I understood that...just like I know many slaves have their owners last names. The question is how many people actually associate these last names with Black people? Not all people know that those last names are held by mostly Black people.
So my guess is the study just found two names, or more, where the percentage was extreme that a black person would have it. Of all the people with the last name Washington 87% are black, and Jefferson 75%. However, the rank 615 and 195 on the ranking of "How common is your surname?". Williams is the 3rd most common last name and juat a little more common for blacks than whites. Jackson is the 19th most common last name and 53% black compared to 40% white have that last name. That is the first rank where there is a clear difference. You dont see another clear difference until you get to ranking 292, BANKS, where blacks having that name account for 54% and whites account for 39%. Again, Ben was quoting the names from the study, not just randomly pulling names. The STUDY should have included other more common names, not just names that are historically black.
@@ramyapierce5579 Both of your points make sense, slaves had their "owners" name so when slavery finally ended they probably wanted to shed that name that meant they were owned by this person or family, and create their own family name. So like MJ said, they made them up or pulled them from inspired places
@stefan davis I think it means to imagine the other side's perspective. Not agree with it, but empathise where the thoughts or feelings come from. Hence not accepting but entertaining. I'll do a google search tho
So that quote is actually not 'real'. By that I mean it's an interpretation of a quote from Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, 1 1094a24-1095a "It is right that we ask [people] to accept each of the things which are said in the same way: for it is the mark of an educated person to search for the same kind of clarity in each topic to the extent that the nature of the matter accepts it. For it is similar to expect a mathematician to speak persuasively or for an orator to furnish clear proofs. Each person judges well what they know and is thus a good critic of those things. For each thing in specific, someone must be educated [to be a critic] ; to [be a critic in general] one must be educated about everything." I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I'd recommend googling your favourite quotes just for this reason. I'll leave my other comment just to show how I went from guessing about a fake quote to now having read the real quote, and beginning a new perspective on the matter.
Aba I have to applaud because you are very level headed when debating issues and that’s extremely hard to do! Preach, you tend to be more emotional when dealing with certain issues, and you can read it all over your face. I think it’s important to give people the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worst intentions from people. When we have a predetermined judgement about someone then we tend to tune out the good with the bad. Lol not that my opinion really matters. Love the videos y’all put out!
The thing is that you're saying that it's important to give Ben Shapiro the benefit of the doubt instead of automatically assuming the worst of him which is 100% not the thing you should do. Never in his life has he said anything smart, he SOUNDS smart by talking fast and then uses buzzwords to help people follow along to what he's saying making them think "This is so intelligent!" when in reality he's just mashing together nonsensical words in hopes it makes sense to an audience who will blindly follow him. He has about as much grasp on the law as he does on racism which is none because he doesn't understand any of it. He does quick searches that will justify his racist spiel because he knows his followers aren't going to do their own research and look up what he's talking about, instead he gives them a link to something that says "Racism is okay and here's 10 reasons why you should always agree with me!" (not literally) and people will share it without reading it because they trust Ben and his judgment. This is due to many people being uneducated on today's society but will get upset "Things aren't how they used to be! People are too soft now!" and these are the same people who will get upset over a Black actor/actress portraying a character they perceived as white for most of their lives because they never actually read the original story but instead they perceived the character as white because that's how it was always portrayed in the media. Ben Shapiro will ensure no one smarter than him will debate him because he's just like the Twitch streamer Hasan who thinks he's the smartest person alive until someone smarter than him shows up, they both get upset, they both say "You should vote for MY party because MY part is superior to the OTHER party!" and both will call someone a racist if they hate on them. Ben has literally called people racists for mocking him saying that it's okay for him to be racist but not the other way around, Hasan has literally done the exact same thing.
@@Mortal209 I agree with most of this and I hate to tell you this, but the mermaid is white and if you read the original story, it tells you her skin color. this has been pointed out multiple times already but multiple different people.
This is also a show that needs to be entertaining. The balance of the 2 make is what makes this channel so great. If they both reacted the exact same way, this channel would likely be much less popular.
Incorrect. The argument is highlighting systematic racism because he highlighted the policy’s that have been put in place to separate the economic groups.
That's Exactly the point he is making. If it is illegal, you can file suit, or press charges, and take that all the way to the Supreme Court of you wanted to
Yeah, this exactly. It isn't systemic for a bank to have crap policy. I thought we cared about personal responsibility and all, that bank is responsible not the country as a whole.
And if you take it to court and win (which you would most likely provided you have evidence to support the claim), then you will make bank off of that bank. Fuck, I wish a bank would do that to me. Id be filthy rich. Anyways, if you decide not to take legal action thats your fault, not the system's.
Nah they should with the obvious premise that he'll pull up stats that you cannot confirm live. Get those stats and sources (I'm pretty sure ben will be glad to email them...ideally as many as you can and of topics you want) and if he's right he's right.
No matter what, when you step into someone else's platform you're more likely to get out talked because 1. Their audience is automatically pulling for the host, so no matter if the caller makes good points, they will be disregarded, 2. typically, the caller is on the defense so the host can barrage the caller with a bunch of points with limited time to answer, then whe they are answering one question, they get barraged with questions attacking a tangent point so they're reeling trying to address all the different points. I've watched/ listen to conservative and liberal talk shows/ podcasts and they all typically go the same way. The host is more about winning an argument rather than having a real discussion and nothing ever gets solved.
"Just because it's been outlawed doesn't mean it isn't happening" Granted. But is it really "systemic" at that point? The system says the act is illegal. That sounds more like instances of individual racism as opposed to systemic ones.
Is that an even valid point ? You acknowledge there a problem . You acknowledge it exists even though it's made "illegal" . People, companies ,and entities still do illegal acts and the "system" is still in place, regardless if it's renamed or made "illegal"
@Colin Amen. Apa & Preach defined in their comment that "Systemic Racism" is a condition that is independent of the law and is predicated upon rasism being exhibited in an "organization", what ever that means. Hell, if that's the standard, we will have systemic racism as long as we have retirement homes (seriously, go visit a nursing home some time, those old people make neo nazis seem down right diplomatic). As much as this pains to agree with Ben Shapiro, that does seem to be playing pretty fast and loose with the definition. Yes, the KKK is a thing, but does their existence mean that the country that produced them is systemically racist? While I acknowledge that banks are to capitalism as burgers are to 'merica, claiming that a privately own financial bureau demonstrating reprehensible behavior is proof of systemic racism is akin to the claim that you must be a drug dealer because your kid is a pot head.
@@CJDAASSASSIN99 Yes it is a valid point. because its not systemic. Its not across the board. No one denies racism happens, there are individual cases recorded but calling it systemic implies it is affecting the whole industry, which it isnt, and as the guys stated on the times it has happened the banks where punished. An honest question would be to compare it to the % of actual sales that occured, and to look at all the circumstances around each case. In todays climate as we should all know by now, not everyone is an honest actor.
@@davidwalford3103 whole =\= system. The system was still up according to what aba/preach said ( I believe until 2015 or 2017 ) . The system doesn't have to affect 100% of people to be considered a system. I agree with you on " no one denies racism happens " . I'm saying the system is still in place illegally.
@@CJDAASSASSIN99 - My takeaway is that the marxists want to "tear down the system" as if it's to blame for these acts of individual racism. Yet the system is, generally speaking, NOT racist. That doesn't mean that all individual racism has been eliminated. Of course. I don't think it probably ever will be totally purged. But the "system" of the USA is the story of freedom imperfectly applied at the country's birth in 1776, and then our journey to bring everybody under it - from the Constitution and Bill of Rights in 1790, the Civil War, 13th Amendment, Women's Suffrage and the 19th Amendment, the Civil Rights movement and on and on.
loved the dialogue and have watched Ben's video as well, I am happy to see such open discussion and no anger or judgement. We need more of this as a country!! As a Hispanic male, I have seen discrimination first hand but have also seen the opportunities that are available to minorities, I grew up lower/middle class and I moved my self up to upper/middle class and pray that my kids will go even further. 😊
Not all black people have black names, the video tries to make the argument that all black people have black sounding names which is not true. Patrick Mahomes is black and doesnt have a particularly black sounding name. How your name sounds is important not just for black people but for white people as well. More popular names always have had a better chance of getting hired you can look at any baby name website and they tell you that. So the name problem is not a problem exclusive only to black people.
@@DarknessFlameMedia your whole statement is useless in this comment, he expressed discrimination he never once mentioned another group oppressing him or being oppressed he simply stated as a Hispanic male he has felt discrimination which is true, please point out which statement he said “no other group has experienced what I have.”
@@ryanjones8156 ok? Why didn’t you say that in the actual comment section and not in another comment? Also nobody is debating names at all. Also how is Jamal a black sounding name when it’s actually an Arabic one?
@@DarknessFlameMedia he isn't belittling the minority populous, but he is saying he agrees because it relates to the people who relate with that struggle.
@@daddyfamlittle6262 Well theres alot of Blacks who are very wealthy here in Texas. But i also agree with these two. So i dont know. Ive noticed theres more segregation in other states despite the huge stereotype Texas has from others who dont live here. And alot of low income areas are mixed race. Now im not saying all. But in San Antonio, alot of neighborhoods will have whites and hispanics.
Class is in a lot more cases more significant than race. Most people in jail are underclass. Not only black. Bankers also give less loans to poor white ppl than rich white people. Etc etc. Also 1 example doesn't proof anything in science.
@@Madrrrrrrrrrrr Yes but this video literally said that if two families had the same income and had the same living circumstances, that the white family would get the loan. That is brainwashing to the max. Its an utter lie. I would say at least 95% of the time it wont happen. They care more about money than race i assure you. As a white dude i had to change my address to get a loan. Luckily im related to the guy so i wont get in trouble
@@matt59fire Ben Shapiro also proved that in this video. The study didn't compare same situations. They do that all the time with woke situations. It's much better to try to help to whole underclass to have more upward mobility instead of playing identity politics all the time. But Aba & Preach do understand that. I know when i see people who understand liberalism for what it really is.
As a white southern conservative, I appreciate the unbiased discussion. It’s constructive and critical at the same time. We need more intelligent conversation like this at higher levels. I wish both sides would drop narratives and focus on non political solutions. I learned things that I didn’t know before and I’m thankful.
@@nothere2610 i understand what you mean, informing the public and what not, but the education system counts as an institution. therefore, if we teach necessary topics to the new generations they are less likely to grow up and be a bigot. when there was an uproar after floyds passing, was that not enough to inform and unite the public? with the sole cause of bringing justice to a fellow human being, if that wasn't enough, then how many more innocent black people must die before everyone wakes up?
What draws me into your channel is that even when you heavily disagree with people, you still are humble enough to acknowledge the good points that are made which makes you and your channel rather unique. Great video as always.
From the US census 2000: People who had the surname "Washington", 90% identify being black; "Jefferson", 75% identify as black. Hence the use in the study.
Yeah, but it's not about how many people with the surname "Washington" or "Jefferson" are black, it's about how many people think other people with the surname "Washington" or "Jefferson" are black. They might seem like the same thing on the surface, but they're not. In the same video, there's an example of something similar: There's a difference between how many millionaires inherit their wealth and how many people think millionaires inherit their wealth.
We know the truth, if you live it then you don't need to have a white dude like Ben tell you how racism runs throughout our societies. Ben likes to hide behind his Jewish victim complex and his use of "framed facts." What makes me want to punch him is not that what he says but the fact that as a scientist who understands how he loves to manipulate data and studies shows that he has a complete understanding of what he is doing and yet he still does so for his own personal gain and to push the political agenda for those who fund him. Ignorance annoys me but knowingly using your education to manipulate others with malicious intent is despicable.
@Harley Davidson Motors 1 is plenty. I simply do not understand how so many Americans can not follow some very simple guidelines. Thanks to those people I get to now sit in DOH advisory committees figuring out how we keep the death toll down while these people run rampant. The political powers that be won't approve as they still need votes however if you ask me, I say the best way to deal with this is simply to make these stupid and deadly acts temporarily illegal because nothing makes one reevaluate like some jail time. The death count in the US is at half a million people already and yet there are fools running around treating these numbers like statistics, not people, if only they too had to see the dead bodies month after month then they might just understand what is really at stake.
@@voiceofreason7558 No where in Ben's entire monologue did he say just because something is illegal that it is no longer happening. And this is my general problem with their critique of Ben's argument. They're mostly critiquing what Ben isn't saying rather than what he is saying. Now, they don't do that the whole video but they do it alot.
In the modern day USA, racism still exists, but it's NOT THE ONLY reason for lack of success. The problem is that people use it as a cop out/excuse when they don't don't apply themselves & succeed.
There are also people who try their best, but still remain in the bottom. You can't judge by sitting at home or because you have had opportunities wide open for yourself.
I'm Hispanic and doing well for myself. I hate when my mom brings up that hispanics can't succeed because we're look down upon. Success is entirely up to the individual. Racism does exist but it's not a universal barrier that affects everyone and every one of your decisions. Sure, we might encounter racism that prohibits us from doing whatever we set out to do. But there's always another opportunity its not 1 and done then cry. We can all succeed if we put the effort and apply ourselves.
@@samlsd9711 You don't know he/she had opportunities wide open. There are plenty of people who try their best, but their best isn't good enough. You find another fucking level and you keep grinding. If you can't handle that, guess what? You're right where you belong.
Great job breaking down a tough subject. I’ve studied this topic and taught it and it’s difficult for most to grasp, mostly because of political bias. Ben is a victim of the the same problem and he’s smart enough to know this. He omits premises that counter him on purpose and that makes his disingenuous. The solution is similar to what you both said, it’s an individual and a systemic problem. Complex problems are usually never one or the other.
@@juliaseazar Pretty sure he's just a fast talker, i remember watching him years ago and he talked so much faster, seems like he's trying to correct that
@@juliaseazar Ben doesn't purposely talk fast in order to seem intelligent. That's how he naturally speaks, if you can't comprehend fast talking put the video on slow and it'll make a lot of sense of what he's saying.
I am fans of both and I agree that sometimes Ben doesn't see the full picture when it comes to topics like this. I don't agree with everything he says but I do like how transparent he is with his sources so you can research yourself.
@@kamfromtmrradio3088 Ben absolutely does compromise with many things but he also has strong Judaic values that he isn't willing to stray from. That's his prerogative and he has every right to his beliefs. He doesn't hold back when he is in debate mode and that's because his goal is to win the argument.
@@captaincaveman8532 spare me my man. I know the type of dude Ben is. His Jewish roots have nothing to do with that. He doesnt debate from a healthy place of good faith but to be right even when he is objectively wrong. Case and point this video.
I like that you said both matters. Coming from a poor family & being white I can't speak on the black experience. I can say class is real. The way banks, teachers, cops everyone treats the poorest people are horrible. Great conversation guys.
Of course...I remember Bill Burr (who is married to a black woman and has two young black children, so...he has a 'dog in this fight so to speak,') but he argued white privilege is kinda silly and doesn't exist because you've got this white kid who's been sexually abused, raised in poverty and he's got privilege over Will Smith's son. I think he misses the point though. It's not JUST about race, but it's pretty straight forward...in general, black people have had it much worse in this country historically. That redlining was outlawed AS EARLY as 1968 doesn't mean it didn't still exist well into the 1980s. Anecdotal, but a story about a Green Bay Packer who tried to move to a white area where I live in Wisconsin (actually...late 70s, but it leaked into the 1980s). They burned a fucking cross on his lawn and threw rocks at his house. This is in a suburban middle-upper class community. My Grandparents bought a house for 35K in 1960, it was worth several million when they sold it. But NOW it's getting to be just as hard for everyone. My parents bought a house for 63K that's worth 500K now. They bought it 2 years after the former Packer(who was and is beloved among the fan base) was kinda run out. All people can have obstacles...I think the point is that if you're black, many of those obstacles were put in place by white people and simply to obstruct people of color.
@@scourge8097 white privilege is speaking on how the average livelihood of a whites person vs a black is different due past institutions and some aren’t completely done away with or systems are in place to help people who’ve been stomped so low! It’s about the MACRO scale Not the micro individual scale! Of course every individual may have a shitty life black or whites! It’s like single parent vs both parents! With me comparing single parenting to black people and having both to white people! Having both doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be successful since they’re shitty parents you can be born into or life can just operate differently! And you can say having a single parent doesn’t automatically equate to failing because you can have a great single parent or you can personally develop to overcome those challenges ! But there is no denying that it would be harder and you’re at a disadvantage for having a single parent! Same thing with race in America !
Classism seems more powerful (from my subjective pov). Rich white people get together to call poor white people white trash. (When Irish people first came over, they were called, among other things, "white (n-words)." I'm not saying the Irish struggle compares to the black struggle, a lot of it had to do with the hatred of Catholicism at the time. The Italians were put down for the same thing, not being protestant/a WASP.
I feel that identifying current illegal redlining as systemic is misleading due to the fact that the word "Systemic" implies it's written into the system that people follow. There's no denying that it still happens but it seems to be individuals following their own rules rather than the system instructing them to do so. Other than that semantics distinction, I agree with your points.
I really like how rational and well reasoned this reaction video is. That’s what a healthy discussion looks like, disagreement without disdain. Also really nice to see that even if you didn’t fully agree, you still managed to find common ground. Well done guys!
@@GZZI11ION In some situations, yes, but in the this video, not exactly. If alsome white guy openly expressed their hatred for minorities with no dignity or self respect, then debating with that man is futile. You are not expected to put yourself in danger and talk with them. HOWEVER, if you are talking with someone about something like systematic racism, you can find a middle ground and explain your point. I hope you understand.
@@talon310calif given how sensitive this topic is I suppose there may be some disagreement for sure, but I just thought it was it was way better than the yelling you usually see
I've seen quite a few Ben Shapiro videos at this point on systemic racism and I find them quite unintelligible. His annalysis always begins and ends with legislation its like any other forces are invisible to him. Furthermore, when presented with evidence he will milk every other possibility except race in explaining it to the point of uncomfortability. So I don't really think the discussion will be interesting.. I do hope Ben gets educated if indeed these are his genuine views.
GoatSuperHero No, watch his “discussion” with Andrew Neil, with just a small amount of pushback, the fool breaks down. The idiots in America coddle the idiot because they want to creat a brand around him. Even when trying to “destroy” college kids he struggles on occasion. He would never purposefully put himself in a position where he would truly be challenged.
@@courier4529 i personally have not heard a Shapiro argument that wasnt solid. Understanding the man himself isn't perfect, but he chooses his arguments wisely and is very articulate in the points he makes.
@@MrLamigra1337 his arguments are always solid? what? I am an ex ben shapiro dickrider, and trust me his arguments are far from solid. His sheer ignorance on research about things like the war on drugs and how black people are targeted by systems is laughable. Thank god i escaped from his ignorance, or even lies now that I think about it.
Only 5 minutes into the video but I wanted to make this point. Redlining as a legal practice is a form of systemic racism. However, like you said, the justice department came down on banks in 2015 for redlining. If the federal systems punish private banks for racist practices, that doesn't sound like a systemic form of racism to me. Anyways, love you guys. Excited for the rest of the video.
Not all black people have black names, the video tries to make the argument that all black people have black sounding names which is not true. Patrick Mahomes is black and doesn't have a particularly black or white sounding name. How your name sounds is important not just for black people but for white people as well. More popular names always have had a better chance of getting hired you can look at any baby name website and they tell you that. So the name problem is not a problem exclusive only to black people. Hope 1 of you gets the opportunity to read the message
@@ryanjones8156 That wasn’t their point either. They said that ‘Washington’ isn’t a historical black name. Saying that it’s ok because not all black people have black sounding names diverts the argument. Because you are then almost admitting that black sounding names are undesirable and have negative connotations linked to them. Not just black but Hispanic, Asian etc. Now you can argue that isn’t intrinsically linked to racism as anyone can be named anything and a name doesn’t represent race. But when the discussion is framed as ‘black names’, ‘white names’, ‘Asian names. It is.
Just because one system is against another does not mean that another that it is against does not exist. You also contradicted yourself in saying the system didn't exist, after admitting, that the system still exists to this day.
@@Delimon007 I never once said that these systems do not exist. I simply said that when the federal government punishes banks for racist practices, it goes against evidence of extant systemic racism. I also never said that systemic racism has never existed, it clearly has. Finally, when speaking of systemic racism its important to notice the difference between all kinds of systems and the proverbial "system".
I think Ben was just trying to show the reason’s other than systemic racism that were contributing factors. The guy in the video laid out the argument for the systemic reasons so Ben tried to show that it wasn’t the only contributor. Don’t think he’s trying to say it doesn’t exist, just trying to point out the many over exaggerations in the video
It sounds to me like there's definitely anti-black systemic discrimination, however it's pretty clear that the source of this are the financial and politicial elites as opposed to your average white person. The takeaway here is that BLM needs to stop alienating white people who are in support of black success in society and enemies of white people neutral towards it by accusing all white people of racism and painting them as hateful bigots.
Why not properly fund the schools that are already in the neighborhood the family lives in. School voucher can only go so far and are an individualistic solution to a bigger issue. You can't take all the students from one school to put them in a bunch of others (probably farther) schools.
@@theworst4297 If you want to see a school "rise to the occasion", allow charter schools to compete. When public schools have nonstop funding with little accountability (actually, low scoring schools get MORE funding, not less), they have ZERO incentive to change. Plus, the unions make sure that teachers are okay to be mediocre, so long as they vote Blue and pay their dues. Believe me, i worked for a school in the lowest scoring County in California and handled the school's budget.
@@aliciag1287 that still doesn't really go against the statements I have made. We should totally sift out bad teachers and train better teachers. I totally agree, the public school structure doesn't really require for teachers to grow and get better at their jobs.
So as teachers get better, and when they know that every family has a voucher in their hand they can make their OWN decision to go to the school they want, the schools will begin to compete to be the recipient of as many vouchers as possible. No vouchers, no more school.
@Jorge Adame I systematically murdered someone, does that make its societies fault? Putting the word systematically in front of the act doesn't displace blame for the actors actions. You act as if cops are ganging up and planting evidence on black folks to frame them for crimes they didn't commit. The reality is acts like you are describing are outliers and shouldn't be used to reflect the majority of good-doers. These people are guilty of racist crimes, but just because one or two cops do it doesn't mean all cops are bad.
@Jorge Adame If I use my credit card to buy a gun and then shoot someone with said gun, is it the credit card company's fault? No. You can't displace blame like this because the individual is the person accountable for their actions.
@Jorge Adame bud, if u put drugs in my car, and the system arrests me, thats bc ur an asshole, not because it's racism. For the love of God stop saying this shit. U wanna know how u end racism, stop making everything about race. Call bad behavior and bad individuals out, but don't call it systematic. Thats just not true.
The problem is Aba & Preach caught and rebutted 33% of Ben's legal raci... rant. This is only a difficult topic if you have not done enough research on the topic to effectively debunk the debunker. You will not find all of it on the internet, guys sorry. Its time to read books of the declassified documents the Obama Administration released with no announcement.
Exactly. Ben Shapiro gets some things right. But he does 2 things wrong quite often: 1) Like you perfectly stated, he does appear to omit things that would otherwise hamper his case, which to me is troubling as he comes across as potentially acting in bad faith. He tends to ignore nuances. 2) When the facts are unconditionally on his side, he generally does not dig deep enough nor does bring up the other side. For example, he might state that there is a correlation between graduating high school and being "successful" and he will state that black folks graduate high school at lower rates than white folks. But he doesn't dig deeper. Why is this the case Ben? He leaves it at "individual decisions" when there is a whole other school of thought that goes deeper into talking about systemic problems in America which effectively create additional obstacles and less opportunities for certain people (e.g., K-12 poor schools vs. wealthier schools). He doesn't like to directly address this other school of thought and fights around it instead.
@@Anikin3- your example literally states a condition that describes the same thing from 2 perspectives. That is even the whole point of the metaphor. You tried to devalue December's statement, and accidently made his point for him/her. /facepalm
According to ‘The Atlantic’ on Feb 2011, they published article “How ‘Washington’ Became the Blackest Name in America. They mentioned that 90% of 163,036 were AA, and they theorized that when slaves were given their freedom they chose particular last names and this was among one of them.
It sounds to me like there's definitely anti-black systemic discrimination, however it's pretty clear that the source of this are the financial and politicial elites as opposed to your average white person. The takeaway here is that BLM needs to stop alienating white people who are in support of black success in society and enemies of white people neutral towards it by accusing all white people of racism and painting them as hateful bigots.
@Lord Jay they skipped Te beginning of the video where Ben said he was debunking the video itself. He said in the beginning there two types of systemic racism and he was arguing for one
Racism is one of the main contributers next to class which leads to economic strife in the black community he didn't debunk anything nobody is saying race is the only issue unless they're spec ed
@@dowskivisionmagicaloracle8593 Well said! The news media (mostly White) paints this false narrative of not trusting white people, but you can trust me because i am a woke news personality and I am on your side.
I really appreciate Aba rationally discussing these issues, and addressing every point made with something relevant to it. And I especially like that he admits when the other person is right, and takes that into consideration. This is how we need to have discussions. More people need to learn from this.
I really wish more people saw things like Aba. Most people are like preach and want to completely dismiss what Shapiro said. While Aba acknowledges that both sides are right and that both sides are intentionally dismissing the other side solely for political gain.
Yes! When need more people who can see the right and wrong of both sides. Especially in the race debates and the feminism vs man's right debates and we need to stop avoiding discussing sensitive subject.
Preach is married to a white woman so he get to compare things of this matter on a daily. Aba is intelligent but lacks real life experiences am sure in ten years his views will change.
I love Preach, but when he gets triggered by something he stops thinking & his emotions get the best of him. He wears how he feels & thinks on his face. I always appreciate his perspective though.
"It so happens that whites were turned down for mortgage loans at a higher rate than Asian Americans, but that fact seldom made it into the newspaper headlines or the political rhetoric. Nor did either the mainstream media or political leaders mention the fact that black-owned banks turned down black mortgage loan applicants at least as often as white-owned banks did." - Sowell
This should be the top comment. Thomas Sowell, greatest black thinker alive and most don't even know who he is. But blame that on "systemic racism" too instead of your ignorant, ghetto asses.
I lived in a situation where I had to cut my budget to the bare bones, just to be able to save $200 a month. I'm talking ramen city. It took me 5 months to put together the 1,000 for the first months rent and deposit on a new place. It sucked. I hated it, and I went without so much. But I moved, outta that city. The exact same job in a different city made all the difference.
That’s where I think preach falls short. I get it, you may have been dealt a horrible hand. But at the end of the day, you just need to accept that no one is going to save you. You need to grit your teeth, suffer through the hard times because you know something better is ahead. Its like taking medicine or having a surgery.
@@ralegade7710 he's not asking someone to save him he's asking people to understand and stop being oblivious to people's situation. People expect you to have this and that and you can't because of systems that wasn't in place for you.
@TO Niwa Because a significant portion of society got conditioned to accept that the "everyone is out for themselves" philosophy is an unchangeable state. But that's not true since people can change. If we want to develop and grow we gotta evolve past this. Working together made us the apex species of this planet after all.
Preach is the man, love his observation. They deserve a national platform on mainstream or streaming. Seriously these two should have a daily show type of thing. They deserve a bigger platform.
google search of top black last names in america. "The 2000 U.S. Census counted 163,036 people with the surname Washington. Ninety percent of them were African-American, a far higher black percentage than for any other common name." "Smith was at 23%, Johnson was at 34%"
@@willconstantinople6434 one discriminates based on their feelings and experience, not data if the employer FEELS Jones is more of a black name than Washington based on the employer's EXPERIENCE, that is more of a factor than real data
@@Heard2 your point is valid, regarding how people actually behave, but the flip side to that is that their experience of 'data' (the commonality of these surnames for example among black people they meet, consider for jobs, etc.) over time is likely to alter their perception. They might feel that Jones is a 'more black name', but it wouldn't take many experiences of meeting black people with the surname Washington or Jefferson to change their feeling. This won't be universal, obviously, as people's interactions aren't identical, but reflects the fact that our views (prejudicial or otherwise) are neither formed in a vacuum nor immutable. Also, to be fair, the specific point that I was addressing in the video was how incredulous they both seemed at a point that is actually supported by data - they seemed to treat as ridiculous the idea that 'Washington' and 'Jefferson' are 'black names', when there does seem to be a strong correlation.
Sure but the point was that it's not an immediate "black sounding" last name. He pointed out that most people may just think of the founding fathers, as opposed to an African American person.
Their point's valid, I think, b/c as a white guy who's moved around a lot and dealt with a lot of black people, I don't associate the names, Jefferson and Washington as "black-sounding." I most associate them with the two US presidents.
Poochie Collins good for you. We all have different experiences with the people we meet. It’s not like you’ll find every person with the last name Ramirez is Mexican. There are plenty of puertorriqueños and other Latins with the last name Ramirez why can’t it be true for these names? You guys just generalize everyone together and make a big deal out of something that affected specific groups of people.
The point being made by Ben, is that racism is not systemic. If laws say targeting loans away from people based on race or sector is illegal, and an individual person still does is, unlawfully. That is not systemic. That is one person breaking the law. That would be like arguing that murder is allowed in the us because some people still murder even though it's illegal. And someone's going to come on here and say that "well their still getting away with it" but yet even aba and preach can show the "settlements being made" against the entities who are doing this illegally. Meaning that the people who are going against these policies. Are being held accountable. I still have yet to see one example of systemic racism that holds. If I'm wrong. Please show me. And btw. I love your guys videos. Even though I disagree with some of the things you guys say, i agree with most. And even where we disagree it's always nice to hear a viewpoint that opposes mine that actually uses logic and factual information that i can try to learn from and bend my own views against
@Chris George so which is it? Individuals in power or systemic? If your argument is that its individuals in power then that isn't systemic. Ben always quotes this and I believe in it wholeheartedly. Find a racist individual and I will prosecute and condemn them with you. You cant stop every bad person from being a bad person. It's not possible. And you cant associate bad individuals with a system that openly condemns them and removes them whenever made known of it. Its not systemic. Hasn't been for decades. Its individuals. And still until you show me a system in play that doesnt condemn behavior like that then I cant get on the bandwagon unfortunately. I just dont see systemic racism being a reality in the 21st century. I see individuals, who more often then not, as soon as they are actually exposed get condemned as a whole by society. That's not a racist society thankfully.
@Chris George unfortunately there's a huge difference between feels like it is and what it actually is, especially when your talking about a solution. The claim today isn't that "a select few individuals in power still linger some effects of systemic racism" . The claims of the activism is pretty openly "the entire system is racist and if you dont agree with me then you, by supporting the system, are racist as well. Now the solution to the systemic would be simple. Change laws. But we did that decades ago. The solution to the other is even simpler, although not as easy to execute and not as perfectly sustainable. The splution being, find racist individuals. And condemn them as a society. And I absolutely believe that, in the USA in 2020. Very few individuals dont follow this social system. I dont know a single person who would say that George floyd wasn't wrongfully murdered and that the cop didn't deserve severe punishment. I also dont know a single normal person who would say that the kkk or neo nazis are good people. Or that people who are proven, not alleged racists, because proof is very important, need to be cast from society entirely, do you disagree?
@Chris George I think when these people consider who and where to invest in it just comes down to money. I dont think its racism i think its just coming from a hard logic position of reliability. If you look at the culture of a ton of black people its definitely their biggest issue. Shitty culture gives rise to shitty mindset. I used to be a part of it. A lot of my family still carries it. Tho tbh i dont think i need to experience it to know if i was a financial advisor id likely stray away from people who seemingly adopt that culture. Just doesnt seem like a smart investment on the surface. So as usual money>everything else including racism.
@@00J-Tone I am black and I'm from a poor family. I have family in jail for bad decisions and I have loved ones actively making bad decisions. The best example of systematic racism is cultural appropriation. We all enjoy a good black joke every now and then but these notions that bad decisions are apart of the black community is apart of a theory that existed years ago; Willy Lynch. In America there is only one identified culture and all others are foreign, that's American culture. Please try to avoid accrediting the negatives of poor communities to black culture.
I taught for 12 years at an inner ring suburb school outside Cleveland and the bulk of our student population were families had moved from poorer locations in Cleveland to our district so they could go to a better school. Most everything you described about what would happen has happened there.
saying "redlining still exists even though the law has been passed" isn't a great argument. it's like saying "murder still exists even though the law has been passed." redlining is NEVER going to end, because people will break the law. that means that redlining today is inherently GOING AGAINST the "system." that makes it sort of the opposite of "systemic"
So we need to report them not wine about it and the thing is we don't tolerate redlining, that's why your argument doesn't work if a country made something illegal it doesn't mean its going to stop immediately we have to enforce our laws and report those who may be involved doing this, and it is hard to find out if someone is doing it since it can be easily covered up
That is true, however wealth is something that doesn't change that much through generations, and if your grand parents were victims of red lining, changes are, it's going to affect your socioeconomic status as well.
But if redlining is being done covertly by institutions, how is it not systemic? From what I know from the definition, not only the laws and government include what's considered a system
As a Ben Shapiro fan, and an @Aba&Preach fan, I would love to see you go on Ben’s show for a Sunday special or have Ben on your show for a productive debate on this subject.
when ben was talking about "moving" i believe he was talking about "if the voucher system was in place they could move schools without moving houses" but he didnt word it like that.
Race, Ethnicity, gender should be removed from all applications (college, work, financial, etc...) Credit history should be the only thing that matters on financial applications, grades/scores should be the only thing that matter on college applications, employment/legal history and degrees should be the only things that matter on employment applications.
same goes for voting!! we shouldn't know any of what you just said ...just vote 1. 2. 3 based on the values and promises they bring to the table...then when it comes to the tally and such it could be like a gender reveal party ...BLAM this is what we got lol
You guys dont seem to understand the definition of "systemic". Just because something WAS systemic, became illegal, but there are instances where the same exact (now illegal) thing is still practiced by select places, that is NOT systemic. Not all places will be using the same practice, and those that do use that illegal practice can be punished if caught. Some places do it, and it's wrong, but it's not systemic racism. It's racism of the individual.
Systemic means throughout the system or common practice ... pointing out a few cases of racism does not make it systemic ... and does not mean racism is trhe cause of the problem .... Shapiro is right
My question is what system is perpetuating racism? Is it the system or the people within the system exploiting power? If it's the people within the system exploiting power, then the argument changes. For example, the United States is a Constitutional Republic (not a Democracy). When you read the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution, it does not uphold the ideas of systematic racism. Yes, the writers and founders of these documents didn't live up to their own words, but neither documents which created our current system supports racism. The system itself was damn near perfect, but the INDIVIDUAL(S) under that system ignored their own doings thus making them flawed. It's like blaming gun violence on all gun and not the individual(s) shooting the gun. When it comes to systematic racism, it seems to come from the decision of individual(s) and not the system. I would agree that the "system" is exploited to advance certain behaviors and ideas...Instead of looking at the system we must examine the individual(s) assuming the power to discriminate and work back to find the core of the problem. You'll probably find this issue across America, but it's not systematic if the system does not allow such practices (IT'S THE INDIVIDUAL(S)/Groups).
My elementary school was 99% white and 76% at or below poverty. That was twenty years ago and now a lot of the people I grew up with are no better off than than their parents. The meth dose not help.
@@timiagrant3600 hard to say. Some of those kids where in the same poverty situation as there white counterparts. It’s anecdotal but I have minority friends that did very well after high school and a few that did not fair as well. It was really about the family structure and support at home.
Re-watching this, i have so much respect for Aba for holding his ground and giving him the benefit of the doubt. I find it to be such a Nobel outlook to life. Really going to try and put this into my everyday life. Will keep you posted on my progress!
@ExQtics Of course you can. It's already been done. There is no proof of systemic racism. Again, guys like Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell have already torn that narrative apart. It doesn't exist.
@ExQtics Thats nonsense and you still have no proof. I'm an atheist btw. You're not going to convince me of anything with god arguments. lol. You need actual evidence and proof of your claims. Not a vague feeling in your gut that "teh systum is rahcist".
@@yahtoray3 if they were put in place of the office then it wouldn't of been outlawed, it still be in place. is it racism you cant really say do to the fact the banks dont have to give out loans if your credit score is lower. That has to be a factor in this if a black couple has a higher credit score than a white one yet the black couple doesn't get a loan and the white does then its racism. If not then its not racism, its poor financial designs. You would meed more data on it to determine if its racism or not.
To this point, they're saying redlining still existed and it was in the news a few years ago.. well it was in the news bc something was being done about it once it was found out... Hints redlining being outlawed. In this case it wasnt the system it was one bank and they were punished. There are so many points of contention here and my fingers would fall off before I could touch on them all. But this one stood out to me
Ben's argument is the same as an alcoholic. As long as I can function,I'm not an alcoholic. America :as long as the system is functional it's not racist. The 1st step in solving the problem is admitting there is one.
FYI I did a fact check on the last name thing. The verdict: Washington and Jefferson each appeared within the top 150 historically black last names in US census. Washington and Jefferson were nowhere to be found on historically white last names US census for the first ~1000 last names. I gave up once I got to 973. Therefore, yes. Jefferson and Washington are historically black last names and it is easy to find that information.
Actually youre kinda looking for what you wanna see, how about google the origin of the name jefferson and washington, there english names of white ppl, do you know why black ppl have those names bc throughout history mainly chattel slavery, slaves indigenous names from africa were thrown away and they were given last names of the slave owners eg the slave owner was jefferson so you are now jeffersons slave, so althouugh these names are seen as black in todays society that wasn't always the case, the disperity happens as americans moved away from their english origins and colonialiazation and thus as time progressed the adapted other names that didm't associate with the english ppl meaning british but the black people african americans, inherited those names and now in modern society, we know alot of ppl with those names as black....also sorry for my grammar
I appreciate your fact check, but does that information take onto account that 100% African Americans that are here in this country wear the name of a caucasian? Unless your a post slavery imagrant you do not own your own origional name, religion, or heritage. So that whole black last name thing is BS. Go find me a African native with the last name Washington.
@@jhacebuckley5204 white people made the English language... therefore all names are white names Do you see how dumb that argument sounds? That's what you sound like
@@dontknow4995 neither are you. Maybe it is a personal problem then too? I'm just being a dick, but at the same time, since when did interpersonal issues become the governments responsibility to solve? What have they ever solved in an efficient way? Also... money is all that matters. Redlining in 2020 is only about profit margins. There are no 2020 kids avoiding black areas for the hell of it. They are simply going to the mall in whatever closest city (high income/spending area) it is located in. I really appreciate the discussions held on this channel and by its viewers tho. Maybe more people can start to see the results of a system without automatically thinking everyone involved, at least at the individual level, is hateful in some way.
6:00 Pretty sure what Ben was saying that redlining isn't systemic. Yes it could still be happening rn (just like slavery) but the system does not endorse said actions.
@Jay Torres same with corporations and civil movements or trendy hashtags. It's maddening how obvious all of this is but sooooo many people figuratively & literally buy into it... :/
That is exactly what Ben would say. If the system says it’s illegal and enforced against it, you can’t call it systemic at the government level even of it still exists, illegally. However, if many companies do it and aren’t caught, it’s systemic and the government should step in to investigate and fix it. Maybe bank audits should include an analysis of how people are selected for loans.
About the names, In the Netherlands this is factually correct. Amonst lower class white Dutch people different names are popular than amongst upperclass white Dutch people. So people áre judged based on their first name. All whites No racism. Bias ? Yes. Racism? No. To prove or disprove Ben Shapiro and the research he suggested you should check if there is a difference in popular names amongst lower class black Americans and upperclass black Americans as well And see if there is a difference in rejections amongst those 2 groups. One traditionally black name and one traditionally white name like in Ben Shapiros example are easy to dismiss.
Idk brothers, I've grown up with too many black Washington's and Jefferson's that when I hear those name I think of my black brothers, fyi I'm afro latino!
Those names still came from Europeans. If black people en masse just started naming their kids "Neha" and "Tatsuro" they wouldn't just become "black names". First names are far stronger when talking about racial biases. Their last name might be same, the race of a "Tyler" is a lot harder to guess in America than a "Lashawna".
@@erboch7124 yeah but its not like people became Washington and Jefferson overnight...if Black people been using Tatsuro for a while Im sure there would be people that know...but i do agree with them/you as if you don't know the %'s you can easily assume those aren't Black last names...so im like in the middle with this
Washington was listed 138th when the Census Bureau published a list of the 1,000 most common American surnames from the 2000 survey, along with ethnic data. Ninety percent of those Washingtons, numbering 146,520, were black. Only five percent, or 8,813, were white. Three percent were two or more races, 1 percent were Hispanic, and 1 percent were Asian or Pacific Islander. Jefferson was the second-blackest name, at 75 percent African-American. There were only 16,070 Lincolns, and that number was only 14 percent black.
Okay but those are still white names that were passed on to african-americans through slavery. Steve Washington sounds just as white as Steve McGregor. The first name is really whats going to be the dealbreaker for a lot of people of color.
In my mind, it's important to distinguish between systemic racism that is society wide versus concentrated in some institutions. Too often, people will describe systemic racism as if everyone is in on it when that is clearly not the case.
I agree with that. And even then, that systemic racism in that industry might really be in specific regions of a country rather than the whole country.
Because people are in on it. They just don't know it. It was a autonomous far before we were born. We were born into a bunch of shit that was already created for us to inherit. Just because you don't know that you get opportunities because you're white, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Objectivity is both systemic and social. One feeds into the other and vice versa. You don't eradicate racism because you enforce some act that tells people how a group of people should be treated. They just can't explicitly express it in your policies.
Kudos to guy on the right, he's a critical thinker. Guy on the left is a bit too emotionally invested and dismissive because of it, but kudos to him as well for still listening through and making his points as counter-arguments. That is what intellectual debate is. Overall, I appreciated watching this video.
I don't think you understand how disgusting some of ben Shapiro's reasoning sounds to some of us black people. It takes a lot of restraint not to show that level of disgust. Not everyone has it.
@@canderson718 They sound that way because we are used to being given our information very softly and delicately. Most of us nowadays are scared to give information bluntly and in turn, rarely receive it that way. We are taught to be offended when people lay down facts for us that conflict with what we feel. Your comment didn't specify you were disgusted, but assuming you were, do you disagree with what Ben is saying in this video?
@@GVS86 I disagree with virtually everything that comes out of ben Shapiro's mouth. While just about every one of his view points are logical and his reasoning obviously follows a clear and rational thought process, they are not factually accurate. One can derive a logical conclusion from false and inaccurate premises.
Legitimately wondering. What is the difference or where is the line between “systemic” racism, and just some people within institutions doing racist things? At what point does it go from being a few racist people to a racist system? And where does “institutional” racism fit in?
Good question. There are certainly tons of laws/policies/agencies in place to prevent racism in just about every aspect of life. But are they being properly enforced/followed? And if not, is it feasible for someone to file a complaint? I’ve never been in a legal dispute but I hear it can be quite expensive. So is it worth it for a poor black person to try to sue an employer for discrimination? But at the same time you also have people who want to dismantle all of western civilization for it. But I think these conversations are what’s needed in order for us to keep moving in the right direction.
That’s the right question for sure. People are too quick to take a stance on either side when it’s very clear to me that all these points fall into grey areas. Nothing is simple when we’re talking about institutions with such a huge number of individuals. Same reason I find conspiracy theories to be lazy thinking.. it’s super easy to just throw all these rich and powerful people into the same box and label it “evil,” just like it’s easy to throw a whole business or industry into that same box.
If the individual(s) routinely use their place in institutions and others know but don't call them out -collusion, then the institution becomes racist, by way of facilitating racist acts.
That's a great question ! I guess systemic racism is when the whole way the society you live in works against minorities through history being carried onto the present. Like laws overly targeting crimes committed by poor people who happen to be widely black as a result of history. A system is not just the people in the building, it's the whole bagage from yesterday and today combined and influencing it. I am terrible at explaining this does it make sense ?
@@NewBaldwin So the line mostly has to do with the culture of the institution (i.e. how people respond to and either enable or stop others doing racist things). Does that sound about right? If so, do you believe it's possible to fix those institutions without destroying them? I am open to discussing the topic, but right now, my personal opinion is that dismantling some institutions completely can be extremely damaging to all people, minorities included. I understand that any given institution might function very differently from another, so a one-size-fits-all solution doesn't make a ton of sense. However, I'm wondering if, knowing that I am against dismantling most institutions completely, what are some ways you think a person like me could help to make meaningful changes inside of an institution? I hope that all makes sense.
I liked this video, however Aba&Preach don’t use the same definition of “systematic racism” as Ben Shapiro. Its hard to argue about the validity of an idea if you can’t agree on a definition for the idea.
There is an agreed upon definition by academics and Ben’s was not it. It doesn’t mean there is a specific law but simply customs and beliefs of people in power aswell
I appreciate you guys making this video I’m a conservative and I’m still learning about stuff and I appreciate when people bring their opinions but with facts. And explain their views in a way of not attacking anyone. I do disagree with you at 29:33 tho. There are people out there trying to blame it all on white people and every white person and trying to use BLM to be racist toward white people. You guys did a great video explaining your side and your views and bringing things into perspective that I never thought of and really opened my mind.
I don't disagree completely. When he speaking of the systematic racism. He's referring to written law vs private and commerical businesses or institution outside of written law. I can acknowledge that the problem still exists but in written law it doesn't and is illegal. It still exists outside the government.
@ it's not his definition. That's the definition according to progressives. It's being used in that manner all over the country. That's how it was explained to me at college.
@ I assume you mean Ben. If we are talking about Ben. Then to say a country is systematically racist when its government expressly forbids racist policies is fundamentally flawed. The Government has laided the ground work to represent the country as elected leader see fit. The government institutions aren't systematically racist. However the Commercial Institutions public and private may retain or enact racist policies. Redlining was an excellent example of this. Outlawed MANY years ago. Banks still practiced it. The US government made it illegal. So racist policies in business not government.
Question: If the practise is illegal, but still hapening individually, (illegaly) (redlining) then is this still systemic racism or is it not just individual buinesses and individuals being racist? Murder is illegal, yet people still commit murder, that doesn't mean that the system encourages it.
Yes I believe that it is the individual (person) or the individual (company) that is racist. Its unfair to paint the everyone in the country or all of the companies as systemically racist, as if they are all in cahoots together
@@blondem0n I'm not talking about them. I'm saying that if someone is discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity, then its the fault of an individual or organisation, not society as a whole.
most cultures agreed murder was bad around 2100 to 2050 BC(when the first laws about it were written). your analogy is a very wide analogy to make, and doesnt line up too well but i get the idea you were trying to convey. question: were there ever laws in the US that supported murder? encouraged it? With racist loan practices, it was literally legal in court. The system itself was built to be a certain way and although the laws have recently tried to change this, it has not happened on a meaningful scale given the time frame. nearly 50 years after the initial laws were adjusted, there is still an issue. a big thing i encounter with a lot of these conversations is white people feeling like they should feel guilty so they naturally want to hope these things arent as bad as it is. White people today dont need to feel guilty. they touch on this topic really well. we (as white people) need to simply listen to, and try to understand the experiences of people who have different skin color to our own! the key for me is not to ignore color, but understand how we can work towards a better future. America is strongest when all of its people are united and heard.
@@blondem0n it would be a wide analogy to make if I was talking about 4000 years ago, but not in modern day America. Has there been discrimination against black people in America systematically in the past? Of course. But the same cannot be said today, it would be foolish to think so. There still is and always be some level of unfairness towards non-whites, and so yes it is a good idea to listen to their concerns. But we cannot pretend that there is widespread systematic discrimination, thats nonsensical
To be fair, he wasn't really trying to "debunk" the entirety of systemic racism. To me he was just trying to scale back on what he perceives as an exarcebation of a problem and its real impact.
These guys saved me from going down the Ben Shapiro stan hole. I used to be one of those people that thought Ben was an intellectual Titan and could never be bested in debate. And while I still do think the guy is bright. I'm glad that by watching a video of calm rational people debunk his arguments and give credit made me realise that not everyone who disagrees with him is a lunatic. Most of the people I saw disagree with Ben were emotional college kids who would use insults rather than arguments. Seeing that someone you disagree with is just like you gives a lot of perspective.
Yeah, Ben does that: uses charged words like TRIGGER or DESTROY or DEBUNK to draw interest. If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt I would say he’s using them ironically, hence the ALL CAPS. But i do think it’s not the best thing.
Mcksteezy for that to work I think he has to mean that it’s no longer legal. Because he does acknowledge that it does exist but in those cases the law doesn’t allow it. Which I think ties to trying to assert that “America is not fundamentally evil”, which systemic racism would make harder to assert.... maybe. Ben has an idea of what he’s fighting somewhere, but he has trouble expressing exactly what it is... “anti-conservativism” is probably what it is...
A system is just a mechanism or a machine it has parts that move together to hopefully generate a desired outcome. In this case the outcome is a fair and balanced society. You put x into the system and get y back. Now if there was racism in the system there must be a part of the process that facilitates it. If person W gets y after putting in x and person B gets y-1 that would be a problem. That being said I have yet to see anyone point to a portion of the system that is causing this effect. If it was an identifiable problem it would have removed by now. In reality Person A is putting in X+1 and getting y+1 Person W is putting in x and getting y and Person B is putting in X-1 and getting y-1. If the system is working like this there is no problem. Yes Person B may be jealous of Person A and W but that doesn't mean it's societies fault.
I found this very interesting, I listen to Ben shapiro and many other people who debate. I'm a lover of the Joe Rogan Experience due to this. I don't agree with everything Ben says but I do find myself agreeing with him on some of the points and opinions he presents. However many of the arguments he made in this in don't agree with. I feel like he has omitted data as its counter-productive to his argument. Hence why I listen to more than one person
@Matthew Forslund WRONG. There is NO DOUBT that the discrimination of the PAST was DUE TO RACE NOT "CLASS", Ben is trying to whitesplain how that SAME DISCRIMINATION is somehow NOW based on class which is what one supposedly thinks of when one hears "LAQUISHA" rather than she's a black woman. THAT IS BULLSHIT.
You know there's a great debunking of right-wing talking points about why blacks are overrepresented in police brutality and it also gives a comprehensive analysis of the solutions to police brutality: ruclips.net/video/mUIT_tcpzmQ/видео.html
I think Ben's point is that there is no law against black people But he acknowledges that personal racism will impact different races when people with power are racist
@@frostywarrior4649 Dude I'm saying is there a difference between racism done by people in a free society Vs "systematic racism" which suggest a problem that is promoted or condoned by the American structure - legally and Policywise.
@Seth Gyan It would still be systemic racism. My reason is based on the acts there were condone during the Jim Crow era. African Americans were greatly discouraged from participating in voting, moving into certain neighborhoods, running for government positions, and filing police reports against certain white citizens in America. This was enforced with lynching, burning crosses on front lawns, and family members going missing and never returning home. All of these acts were considered illegal, but condone due to a lacking of enforcement from the state or federal government.
Looked up the "Black" last names: Ben was actually right - Names like "Washington", "Johnson", "Smith" are disproportionately likely to belong to Black people. On the "Black names" (eg Laquisha), I doubt such people would want to hire "Cletus LeBeau" either, since he probably comes from some backwoods trailer park. Lots of factors that play into this stuff I think. I think class discrimination likely is real in that sense.
Most of it is class discrimination masqueradingas racism so race hustlers can get theirs. If you actually look at the study, it finds that black employers are just as unlikely to hire people with "ghetto" names as white employers.
@@dogsdreamtoo8427 jamal seems to be an extremely common name among blacks in usa. like tyrone. usa is a weird country. here blacks are not a different culture. nowhere else i've gone are blacks a different culture. usa seems to be the one place where people havent fully integrated. here the only difference between blacks and everyone else is the amount of melanin in the skin. the name distributions and las names distributions are normalized among the whole population.
I think "Debunking" was for the sake for an attractive title. My interpret of the video's message is "Racism isn't the sole contributor to inequality and if we want to fix the problem, all variables require our attention" Personally I believe the one of the main things holding the lower class back is lack of motivation to take risks. A lot of us default to thinking that we're bound to fail so we justify not facing our fears of potential failure.
@Jennifer Boehm idk if it is depression unless you realize how good you have it. I think that people who had it really bad in other countries and they move to a better county they are more appreciative of the new country they are in. People should read books on WW2 and the holocaust and realize that all this can be much worse and that the human race is extremely durable and can adjust to the harshest of conditions. With the obesity rate and the number of people that have access to A.C., Cell Phone, and Electricity, we all have it really good, some might say we have it too good.
It’s obvious that preach truly dislikes Ben and even when he makes valid points he doesn’t wanna acknowledge them. I’m glad Aba was being more open minded about hearing the other side (the ones who don’t believe in systemic racism) out more. Systemic racism is a hard subject to study because of the enormous amount of variables that needs to be taken into account. With that being said anyone who said it doesn’t exists at all clearly didn’t do much research.
When it comes to denial of "systemic racism" among smart people like Ben Shapiro, Scott Adams (I'm not talking about your typical right wing NPC who just repeats typical talking points of his group), I'm almost certain it's about the definition of term, not lack of the research. The more I listen reasonable people talk about it, the more I'm starting to understand where they are coming from when they talk about existence of systemic racism. I still disagree that it's systemic racism tho, because I doesn't seem to me that it fits the definition of *systemic* racism, but rather racism. Like one of the comments here suggested - maybe we should find a new term for this. People who use old, original definition will keep pushing back, because we don't like changing definitions to fit the narrative. But as a result it seems to me that most of less critically thinking people deny existence of those illegal racist practices together with rejection of the new definition and that's also not good.
Uno The One no! He’s just not intellectually capable of expressing himself properly. It’s why a character like Aba runs most of the actual intellectual talking points in every video. While preach just screams and sings and spaz.
Ben was never saying not to acknowledge systemic racism such as slavery and Jim Crow. The reason he isn't is because that's basically all people do. They don't just acknowledge that these things happened, they spend their entire life in the past and NOT looking at what policies must be changed today. Ben is essentially calling for shifting the perspective now, so as to not spend one's whole lifetime acting like a victim. I agree.
I think Aba would and would be good in it. Preach however, would spend most of the discussion pulling faces and shaking his head before loudly storming out halfway.
Just Aba then... unless Preach goes to get his feelings destroy by facts. He isnt ready for that level of intellectual discussion. This video was so eye opening. Aba got many kudos and I had to take so many from Preach.
@@PochoNieves Preach made very good points. Ben was not mentioning the full data and taking everything into account, to conveniently make his point. Aba and Preach bring different things to the table.
Yeah, really telling. He had this face from the very beginning, even before he heard Ben's arguments. Shows you that he already had his mind made up before watching the video. That's why I appreciate Aba (even tho he missed Ben's points), he's more open minded and critically thinking.
@@bs667 Preach agreed with some of Ben's points as well so he was definitely listening. I think his main issue was that Ben's argument was mainly just saying there's other factors. So it's like this video is all about systemic racism as a concept. The video creator didn't say everything is because of systemic racism. But Ben kept trying to refute that point. The look wasn't disgust, it was more so exhaustion in my opinion. I was getting a little exhausted with that same argument being used throughout the video as well. There's other factors, there's other factors. It's like, yes yes yes we know. That's not the point, but anyway I digress
@@bs667 Maybe he's already thought about it and y'all need to catch up. Most black people have heard these weak arguments trying to rationalize systemic racism. It's very easy (sometimes) to predict exactly what they're going to say about it. He didn't say how mass incarceration, government loans, gov giving Black banks money for loans but not to grow interest. Black people generally fall for democratic policy, just as whites fall for republican beliefs. Blacks who are politically educated understand that the dems are the lesser of the two evils.
While I disagree with many of the points being racially motivated as opposed to being economically motivated, I respect anyone willing to have these conversations in a calm and rational format.
I'm more on the economic side personally, that being I'm with you that I'm glad that civil conversations can sometimes still occur in this world of ours. It's sad to think how little you see it happen anymore though.
Tall Allen you’re probably hearing that shit about Chicago when defending a drug dealing thug that was killed by police. White people typically assume that when a white person is shot by police, they deserve it. We don’t hood riots. We don’t start multi million dollar go fund mes for some meth head that decided to fight a cop. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone reference Chicago and black on black crime is in opposition to the false narrative that police departments are inherently racist
Really? How convenient your view is, when you start looking at this from 1968. Now would you please explain what the economic dynamics that existed before 1968 and also before the civil war? Do you know each group came out of the Civil War with? Maybe that will open your eyes to the purpose of redlining as an intent rather than pragmatism. How about the GI Bill? Economic too? You want to start at 1960s while ignoring the history since 1619. Again, how convenient.
The thing with last names is, in the past when slaves were finally released they needed a last name and many had lost their own heritage to be able to take a name that culturally represented where they came from so often times they took the last name of their last "owner" which were white men... so over the years those last names are passed down and used, to this day, by families of both ends of the beautiful flesh toned spectrum. It's almost impossible to use those last names to identify people's skin color. 🤔 wonder why Ben wouldn't touch on that factoid...
Well, not really. I may be mistaken but from what I understand the fact they are used by the black community doesn't mean they are "historically black". For example, most chinese people who often deal with westerners will have given themselves a western name. I literally had a dinner last week with a chinese student who has been studying here in Spain for years and he introduced himself with a spanish name he had given to himself, same as when I lived in China they encouraged us to give ourselves a chinese name to use and even our college diplomas for the course had both our western and chinese name. So, I'd say Washington and Jefferson were either surnames the black community gave themselves to fit in better or they were given by slave owners because they couldn't bother to learn their actual surnames. Essentially, even if the black community has been using it for 300 years in the US it wasn't because it was "historically black", quite the opposite. To be clear, I agree with points made and disagree with others but I think Ben didn't account for all the facts when making that point.
NJ!VAH GENE No it might seem hard for someone with your intellect to comprehend but I actually just searched ‘most common black surnames’ and went to namecencus.com.
a few years after me and my sister were born my father was determined to leave the Bronx so that we could have a chance at a better life. he had no college education and it took him about 10yrs to get a higher paying job outside of NY and then had to leave us to live on his own in another state to build enough savings to get us out. we moved to Virginia and lived in a neighborhood with better schooling than we had on NYC. my parents tried to get us into a more middle class neighborhood but we're turned down multiple times because the areas didn't want people without degrees living there. no joke. the realtor told them that one of the places had a job/education qualifications to live there. so because my parents never went to college we were stuck in a lower class neighborhood. we got out of the ghetto but still couldn't reach the mountain top. they are still there today because my dad lost his good job because the company moved to California and we couldn't afford California living. they never recovered from that. now it's up to me and my sister to do better. so far...meh.
Exactly, it's not about race, it's about income, degree, qualifications, etc. Sorry to hear about the fact that despite your father trying, it still didn't work out the way he wanted it to. But it looks like you are aware that everything is in your hands and system is not out to get you specifically, I'm sure you will slowly move forward :)
@@kalash_nikov The issue is race is deeply embedded within lack of income, degree, qualifications, etc. Intersectionality makes it difficult to separate the two.
As a black person ik that many black people give thier children "white names" because it might give them a better chance at getting a job or being talked about in a good way . My aunt has two boys, one name is James and other is Shawntrell. Shawntrell is WAYYYYY smarter than James (he was valedictorian in highschool, always made the Dean's list, got a perfect score on the SAT and ACT) but gets overlooked. When my aunt talks about her smart sons everbody assumes she's talking about james until she says she's talking about shawntrell and everbody has a shocked look on their face......Its shouldn't be like that, someone name shouldn't control their whole life
Agree. But between the two, who’s the older and younger brother? I’m from a family of 5 kids. Everyone of my extended family members assumed the eldest son to be the smartest, but my younger brother and I are the smartest of the 5.
Actually this practice is not "native" to black people. This happens in Europe all the time depending on what country immigrants have moved from (and they are all white). Of course this is less of an issue these days with European Union as people are free to move between states but it still happens. It even happens a lot with European immgrants to the Americas (North and South).
Matthew Forslund Both. My younger brother and I both got academic and job training that far exceeds my other 3 siblings’. Granted, we’re all “smart” in our own ways. Idk, dude. I hate to make assumptions, but it seems to me that you’re pretty butthurt over something. Trying to take it out on RUclips comments isn’t helping much.
Tell that to every Latino... even if we get named John instead of Juan... Rivera, Garcia, Martinez still the last names, LOL!!!! Nothing ever stopped me specially my name... my merit is what matters but maybe your cousin should just say his name is Shawn...
Good video, noticing that Ben likes to expand on simple points until the topic gets so convoluted you almost get the impression everything is because of something that is no one's fault and it's too complicated to bring up when really most types of racism are simple and easy to pass on through dogma generation to generation. It's a look, it's a private thought that manifests itself and makes you behave differently around different people, it's as simple as having a batch of videos curated for you based on your interest that makes you go "oh so that's what this person and his or her community is like". You may be racist but that doesn't make you a malicious person, it does mean however that you are willing to judge another human being before you have enough information on the individual to make any sound points which we should all hold ourselves accountable for.
SYSTEMIC RACISM ISNT ABOUT THE LAW. Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an ORGANIZATION. (such as banks)
Ben's video is worth watching as it raises some good points and showcases some holes in the idea that all inequality is linked to systemic racism. Some of his counter arguments were a little odd but still, I thought it was a decent video and he didnt misrepresents studies like many people do. Now to clarify some points.
- Just because companies have policies against Redlining it doesnt mean they dont do it. Having a law in place does not mean there arent systemic problems in place. If institutions know redlining is illegal but it is profitable to Redline, despite crackdowns there is still an incentives to do so under the current system. This doesnt mean the U.S. govt is inherently complicity or that were all encouraging it, it simply is an indication of institutions (banking in this case) still engaging in racist behavior. These arent individuals, these are a series of large unrelated banks discriminating against large groups of people. If you're trying to say "its not so bad anymore, we have a law" whilst the practice is still fkin over minorities its really not a productive contribution. For minorities, the law being there sounds great until you realize you still may be suffering the same.
- The black names. The point isn't whether they are common or not. Im talking about peoples perception of names. And if the study wanted to accurately see whether or not there is implicit bias based off "traditionally black sounding names", they should use names that may evoke bias. Jefferson while common amongst blacks is also not strange to hear on many white people and the most famous Jefferson remains white. Our perception of the name does not clearly evoke a race the same way Mahammed, or shaniqua or Kim-Soo Yun does. Hence why the study is faulty.
You guys actually keep me open to liberal thinking... I'm always worried about being pulled too far either way. 🙏🏼
Aba & Preach why are you expressing a nuanced opinion on the internet? reeeeee!
serious note; keep up the good work.
This is why you are respected. You will notice the comments are trying to split everything down the middle and create sides. When this isn't what you are trying to do. Speaks of the current times unfortunately. Always worth listening to the other side, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle, or you cannot force someone to change their mind in a way that is genuinely accepted and lasts without resentment. In any direction. We should arrive at our own perspectives with the blessing of others as long as we have weeded out genuine prejudice and any evident falsehoods. Too much like hard work and doesn't score points for most it seems.
Wouldn't it be damn interesting if you guys talked with Ben Shapiro? I think that would be an amazing video!
systemic racism factors in maybe 25% inqeuqlaity the rest of it, is single mothers that can't raise sons, (fucking tyron and ray ray), the other parts decisions, i have seen alot of blacks and women in particular like to be victims instead of changing their reality. i am a black and i worked hard signle parent house we were poor, very poor
Isn’t it refreshing to have people debate on this subject, disagreeing and agreeing on many aspects and not scream/condemn each other.
Healthy discussion is the way forward
And exactly what has it achieved? After all the discussion, the problem still exists.
Yes! 👍🏽
@@Tee9156 Well, how do you suggest we solve it?
@@Tee9156 agreed, however without being able to discuss it in an open forum, it can never be addressed. To say it's useless to discuss it because nothing has changed at the end of the discussion is exactly what has prevented change from happening, because when there is no communication about it, people ignore it unless it directly effects them. We can't wave a magic wand and make it disappear, but through discussion we can begin the process of change.
T. Yahaya What has Aba & Preach achieved with their analysis and diverse views on Bens perspective of the video? In which Ben also analyses a video.
My comment is about the way Aba & Preach handle Bens perspective on the video mentioned.
I hope you ask that same question to Aba & Preach rather than a viewer who appreciates their civil debate/discussion.
I'm a guy, watching 2 other guys, watching a guy, watch a video. The future is now.
🤯
Do you have The Schwartz?
No no, when I watch you watching these 2 guys watching Ben Shapiro watching a video, then let's talk abo... uh.. I.. I forgot what I was trying to say.
Ima dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
I’m a guy, reading a comment about a guy watching 2 other guys, watching a guy, watch a video. The future really is now
You guys should contact Ben and have a talk with him. He has a segment that he calls a Sunday special where he sits down and has a discussion with people. I think it would be an interesting conversation.
Ben is FOS and knows he is FOS! 🤷🏽♂️
@@daddyfamlittle6262 then confront him tell him where he is wrong
please happen ! I would love it
@Bella Tempesta “Full of shit”
As if Ben would talk to anyone remotely on the left. He can't even handle being interviewed by a conservative. Trash human being on top of that.
as an independent that is more right leaning, you guys did a great job at being critical/understanding when necessary. Y'all brought up points I hadnt considered and I appreciate and thank you guys for your open mindedness and intellect. Thank you for being a voice on the internet that applies cognitive thinking rather than emotional thoughts. I appreciate this video so muchand think you guys created a great opportunity for debate/education! i hope yall have a great year!
This! The reason why I used to be strictly right was because I thought my only other option was to believe other extreme values like how in this case, systemic racism is the sole reason why people don’t move up. A lot of people around me preached this and it really freaked me out. I love how this channel makes such a good discussion about it. It’s things like this that made me realize I can think a little bit of both and still be ok
This is exactly why I listen to you guys. It is not screeching “white people evil” it is not “poor black kids have it easy because of affirmative action “
You guys aren’t cheerleaders for one side.
Same ! I truly love what they're doing although they've got a few things wrong here. Shapiro tries to debunk systemic racism. If a law has been passed, then the racism isn't from the system, it's from individuals. Of course there is still tons of individuals who are racist, but the fact is that in the system, in the laws, america gives equal rights. Even if they are represented by a presumably racist person, even if there are racist companies schools banks that are represented by racists, it IS a shame, but it is not SYSTEMIC. MLK said himself we need to stop putting racism on the table if we wanna see it go. It's like smoking, if you wanna stop smoking, thinking about NOT smoking is still thinking about smoking. Thinking racism is BAD is great and all, but it still means we're all thinking about racism, whatever the opinion is on it ... :/
@@gabrielcat72 I guess it all depends on how systemic racism is defined? Even if the laws are changed, if the system itself was set up that way and continues to operate that way, can you then say systemic racism no longer exists because there is no law to support it?
@@Missreepee exactly ! It's all about definition. I just wonder, what is there to do beyond laws collectively? Where can we make a REAL difference ? Individually, respect for sure.''Be the change you wanna see in the world''. But dont you think our energy should be invested towards other very racist and sexist countries ? Some serious cases out of america and they could really use our help I dare to think
@Jaskaran Singh another great compilation of individual racism. Nothing systemic here. We re all part of the system and so individual racism is also systemic because every individual is part of the and a system? Its like drugs. They're illegal mostly but people still takem, what are you going to do ? I aknowledge there are problems but they come from persons, not the law. Your point is some people in the law are racist, cool, we get it, but is it proveable ? If yes, sanctions , if not, move on. There is systemic racism in many places in the world (racist AND sexist law) how about we adress that ? We cant change anyone but ourselves, but we CAN change laws, so lets focus on what we can do ^^
@Jaskaran Singh what laws ? Can you give a good example of what would help :)?
Aba and preach are the safe haven of my centrist political outlook. Literal breath of fresh air. Not trying to push an agenda - just their honest, rational opinions.
I think I’m more right leaning but if centrist came out more I would be that. I align my values more with centrist, it’s just that I’m today’s politics we don’t even have a voice. You either have to be left or right. Most people are mild mannered thinkers that align with centrist (independent ) values. I think centrism is what America needs, it would definitely help us come together.
@@danielhernandez-vo9zc mhm I agree. I'd say I'm probably more centre-left, but occasionally I do share some mildly right wing values (e.g modesty). but yeah centrists unfortunately don't really have much of a voice - I don't know why but people only ever listen to the most extreme of each side 😔.
I agree that centrism is what America needs, as well as the rest of the world. Everything is best in moderation.
@@cutieowl347 We are seen as indecisive because we don't swear allegiance to any fixed ideologies. I'm fine with this, we are at a unique time in the west. If government doesn't completely implode upon itself, we will see the proof that injecting some moderate thinking is the only solution to appease all citizens. We used to entertain the extremes of both sides, but the average person is far more intelligent because they have the capacity to inform themselves more than ever. This brings about the need for moderate leadership, because the moderate leader actual takes the needs of everyone into account objectively, rather than rallying for a class or group due to a stereotype. (Like a political class.)
Fuck centrists
But, you all gotta remember the fault with your own political siding as well. The fault with the Centrist approach is that it doesn't create results fast enough for the mass because it has to navigate both sides, and can find it's own extreme of extreme balance like a line instead of a wave because too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. People want answers, results, even if they are placebo effects only, which the left and the right exemplify amazingly well. Sometimes a bad answer is better than no answer.
My take on what Ben means by "systemic" is racism supported by the system (government, laws). These guys are right, just because it's not legal doesn't mean it isn't happening. But what I take from Ben's video is that it is no longer systemic but it is now individual racism (the banker is racist, not the system)
You are right, that is illegal racism, that was sued and everything...
Exactly this, the systemic element is removed by the legal change and active prosecution of offenders.
However, the original video raises a good point. The implication of the system does create bias but unfortunately this is hard or nearly impossible to quantify..
@@craigmcdonnell1719 it is hard to quantify, but i think it is declining very fast.
I believe that the way to get it to decline is to not talk about race, and ignore the difference between the races, so long as it doesn't hurt other values... And the bias will vanish, and there will be only bias based on logical and economical decisions. Which are inevitable in any economy.
As i believe peterson says, in capitalism, there will be always a disparity between the rich and poor, but those groups are maliable, and its beter than communism, in which every one is poot, or dead, or an evil dictator or his followers...
@@ronlerner1755 not talking about is an angle for sure but in a widely viewed perspective the better approach would be to stop the ideology that there are multiple races and start teaching the belief that there is only one race. The human race. In a perfect world this would be the best solution to remove the belief that skin color defines you as a race. We all have a heart, brain, liver, and we all bleed red. I will say the most recent generations have definitely made the most progress with eliminating the diversity between the different walks of life and that is a beautiful thing to see. Hopefully one day one love will be the way.
@@benjamincarnes9117 true, but i dont really think that there are schools that actually teach the racial differences between the races... So i think, by not talking about it, it will disappear from thought...
Can I just say the comment section here is like the least toxic, most heart warming gathering of totally different people who disagree. I kept scrolling to see any hate or disrespect and didn't see a single instance of it. I don't know what you guys did to curate such a great audience but kudos. Literally got the warm fuzzies.
Shut yo handsome and educated ass up
by beyond pissing off both extremes leaves only moderates
They attract mostly moderates. That's why. Extremists tend to be toxic.
I think the point he was making is that the "system" of "systemic racism" has changed and no longer supports that racism. This doesnt eliminate racism in total, it just makes it illegal to use it in the systemic fashion. Again, I'm pretty sure Ben was clearly saying systemic racism so it would be understood as the system no longer being racist. This, again, doesnt mean that people running banks arent racist or limiting lending to those races they dont like.
I wonder what minority is associated with banks in general...
I hope they read this comment, man. This seemed to elude them, but they did well to call Ben out on some of the weaker arguments he made.
Those interested in more Ben view points should watch most lectures he puts out when he states that if you can find an example of racism he will 100% stand beside you and fight, but one instance does not mean the entire system is racist. Let's get these guys to talk with Ben. More fruitful to understand how people come to their conclusion. Talk it out.
He made that point about as easy to grasp as he could. A lot of the discussions and talks Ben does seems to fly over people's heads anyway because they get emotional about it. And it isn't intentional. And this isn't saying anyone is dumb. They just need more context, and a "debunk" clip isn't going to capture that.
banks are racist, but if credit worthy blacks need loans why are the black billionaires and millionaires not stepping up?
Most “Historically” black last names are the last name of their master’s to identify which plantations they’re from. Freeman might be the only true historically black last name.
This statement isn’t actually historically accurate, many slaves picked their last names after their abolition. Some who’d bought or earned their freedom prior took on the last name Freeman as a receipt or statement of their freedom signifying they could not be bought or sold. Also thank you for bringing to my attention freeman is a English word or words which apparently aren’t native to Africa or even America. Who knew?!! Yet the compound words “Free”and “Man” held a significant meaning for black Americans during and after slavery. So based on our history the interpretation/application will be different from those who aren’t us.
"Ruckus" is a historically black last name too.
@@bruceleeroy8302 "No relation"
@Member Berries i dont get your point
www.nbcnews.com/id/41704238/ns/us_news-life/t/washington-blackest-name-america/
@@oppfromthenorm1886 what about the vatican?
I want Ben to react to a video of you guys watching his video of him watching a video on systemic racism 😳🤯
At that point you may as well have them debate
@@wolfhawk1999 I would watch that debate, Ben is certainly more experienced but there are definitely weaknesses in his game.
That is how you create temporal abnormalities. Its how the big bang was created.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 Ben's arguments aren't as solid as he'd like you to believe. When you actually fact check and dive into his sources you start noticing a lot of holes and discrepancies. Just like in this video he citied a study that actually disproved the point he was trying to make. But ofc in the public and crowd debate format no one can put his arguments under that level of scrutiny in the moment so it seems like he's "destroying them" when he's just talking fast and (sometimes) saying nonsense. He does occasionally have really solid arguments too but more often than not his points and sources are filled with holes and contradictions.
On some inception shit ⚡️
He actually debunked systemic racism if his definition of systemic is legal racism.
It is clear that he wasn't trying to debunk the fact that racism exists. He admits the reality of racism. However, the racism that exists is not sanctioned by law. I am not saying he is correct in his understanding of systemic racism. I am simply pointing out that his title was not clickbait.
My opinion lines with yours, racism exists but that's because people suck and its not just white ppl.. from my point of view and the life I lived with the people around me I see more racism twords whites then anything els especially from natives.. I live in Canada and I understand that people in are past did really horrible things 😔 but tbh most humans have zero ability to rationalize .... like ya keep fucking hating 😒 keep blaming people for things that happened before either one of us was even born .. bet that will get you far ohhh wait I don't gotta bet just look around
These twos whole definition of systemic racism is because of ONE case of redlining since 1960. Everyone wants to be a victim nowdays it's insane. Want some get out of poverty? GET A JOB. period, that simple. there's A LOT of lazy people in this country and want to blame everything on someone else rather than taking personal responsibility for your own life. And Whyte people seem to be an easy target nowdays
@@anthonydavis9382 dude no.... you are talking out of your ass.. " get a job if you don't want to be poor" probably some stupid kid ... I know people that work two jobs that don't make as much as I do .. stay in school if not go back
@@Sourkeyz you are a liar. With a name like yours i even doubt you have a job. If you had 2 jobs, you would be making upwards of 50k thousand a year, minimum. And if that is lower class, then you must be RICH
@@anthonydavis9382 haha an alias created by my youngest son, I take no offense bud . I own a very small company that builds a home or two a month so im more then a 6 figure family but thats besides the Point we were getting at
"We're arguing it is both." Holy hell, finally, someone FINALLY takes a moderate position! Can systemic racism co-exist with poor personal choices? Absolutely!
Exactly, when you have racism it’s just harder to over come those terrible personal choice. It makes it harder, but it isn’t the sole reason for failure. I wish people would understand that, the problem everyone is so into tribal politics no ones wants to give ground and acknowledge when the other side is right. Everyone just needs to meet in the middle and stop yelling at each other.
@Kurgen Eagletail well if they don't hire you for being black you could always just starve to death and then they can say it is your fault for not being skilled aka white.
@@shermanbrooks23 man i wish we lived in an ideal world but people tend to do whatever they can to get ahead without thought for others
@@Tethloach1 When the economy was booming before covid, black unemployment was at an all time low. Didn't really seem like ti took any convincing to get companies to hire black people.
@Nate "Can systemic racism co-exist with poor personal choices?" It can, but it demonstrably doesn't at this point in time. 80 years ago, you'd have found it to be mostly systemic racism holding black people back(and yet the black middle class was growing), and not personal decisions. That has done a complete 180 flip onto it's head, and all the evidence points to that. The harder researchers try to prove widespread racism exists typically the more they prove it doesn't. So you have SJW types making the argument that modern racism is invisible through implicit bias, you can't see it, but IT'S THERE! Even if there are no measurable effects of this racism, and the only way it can be proved to exist is with a special purity test that you must take to prove you are not racist, and when you invariably fail that test, you must pay them money to cleanse your soul which is of course a never ending process. Or you have people attributing the actions of individuals, or small groups, to society at large, which is almost a dumber argument in a nation of over 300 million.
To be clear there are still racists, and those racists do still cause harm, but by definition that does not constitute systemic racism. Unlike in the past, today if you encounter a racist who won't give you a job no matter how qualified you are, there's 100 other businesses down the street that will gladly have you. Larry Elder's story about his father talks about this, he endured a lot of racism is trying to get a job, but by the time larry was entering the work force it had changed so much it was almost a non issue. That is the problem I think we have today is that nobody can accept when things change, especially when that change is rapid. You had violent counter protests against the civil rights movement in the mid to late 60's, and within 2 decades things had changed dramatically. By the end of 1968 you'd already had the first interracial kiss on broadcast television in star trek. Multiple pieces of anti discrimination legislation were passed with in some cases almost no resistance, schools were integrated, black people began to become more and more present in popular culture, and by the 80's, within 2 decades, you had millions and millions of white kids who either wanted to grow up to be michael jackson or michael jordan, and the kkk was bankrupted from a single lawsuit over the last known race based hanging of a black man, where 3 of the 4 perpetrators got life in prison and the other got the electric chair in a former klan stronghold state. Most people honestly couldn't wrap their head around that rapid of a change, less than a generation. Even wit some setbacks self reporting surveys had shown steady increase in perceived race relations in the USA all the way up through both terms of bush jr's presidency, then the first black president is elected with 70% of the white vote and suddenly the country starts reversing progress on race relations out of nowhere and now a lot of people accept as a matter of course that we just live in a horribly racist country. It's mind games to divide people as far as I am concerned.
I think the exact same phenomena exists with the LGBTQ community, up until very recently even the democratic establishment was anti gay marriage. That changed rapidly, gay marriage was legalized, most people realized it was a non-issue and quit caring and everyone got on with their lives. However gay people had bee oppressed for so long they didn't know how to process that virtually overnight they gained pretty wide acceptance and even staunch conservatives barely care about the issue anymore. I think the response has been the push for acceptance of more and more obscure and/or ridiculous things as some sort of test/proof that things didn't really change, and they've pushed all the way to the point of they aren't even happy with equality, they want you to flat out endorse homosexuality and admit it's equal if not superior or something. It just keeps going to farther extremes of what the activists want because they can't accept that they won their fight, and it probably didn't feel like it was even a fight there at the end.
About the Washington and Jefferson last name thing, history lesson time.
When slavery in the US legally ended, many former slaves had to literally make up last or surnames for themselves as they did not have one before.
This caused many to just use well known or famous last names like Washington and Jefferson.
Tidbit of history, thanks to whoever reads this comment.
Yeah, I also looked this up and found similar information.
Also slave owners would give their slaves their last names to show ownership.
I understood that...just like I know many slaves have their owners last names. The question is how many people actually associate these last names with Black people? Not all people know that those last names are held by mostly Black people.
So my guess is the study just found two names, or more, where the percentage was extreme that a black person would have it. Of all the people with the last name Washington 87% are black, and Jefferson 75%. However, the rank 615 and 195 on the ranking of "How common is your surname?". Williams is the 3rd most common last name and juat a little more common for blacks than whites. Jackson is the 19th most common last name and 53% black compared to 40% white have that last name. That is the first rank where there is a clear difference. You dont see another clear difference until you get to ranking 292, BANKS, where blacks having that name account for 54% and whites account for 39%. Again, Ben was quoting the names from the study, not just randomly pulling names. The STUDY should have included other more common names, not just names that are historically black.
@@ramyapierce5579 Both of your points make sense, slaves had their "owners" name so when slavery finally ended they probably wanted to shed that name that meant they were owned by this person or family, and create their own family name. So like MJ said, they made them up or pulled them from inspired places
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
@stefan davis I think it means to imagine the other side's perspective. Not agree with it, but empathise where the thoughts or feelings come from. Hence not accepting but entertaining. I'll do a google search tho
So that quote is actually not 'real'.
By that I mean it's an interpretation of a quote from
Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, 1
1094a24-1095a
"It is right that we ask [people] to accept each of the things which are said in the same way: for it is the mark of an educated person to search for the same kind of clarity in each topic to the extent that the nature of the matter accepts it. For it is similar to expect a mathematician to speak persuasively or for an orator to furnish clear proofs.
Each person judges well what they know and is thus a good critic of those things. For each thing in specific, someone must be educated [to be a critic] ; to [be a critic in general] one must be educated about everything."
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.
I'd recommend googling your favourite quotes just for this reason.
I'll leave my other comment just to show how I went from guessing about a fake quote to now having read the real quote, and beginning a new perspective on the matter.
@@nathanlorenzo8550 absolutely and thank you...as the little I have read of Aristotle...didnt match the simplistic nature of the first quote...
It's seems to simple...that would be an enlightened mind / or empathetic mind....the full quote is more provoking ...
And Greenberg makes me think Jewish not white
Aba I have to applaud because you are very level headed when debating issues and that’s extremely hard to do! Preach, you tend to be more emotional when dealing with certain issues, and you can read it all over your face. I think it’s important to give people the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worst intentions from people. When we have a predetermined judgement about someone then we tend to tune out the good with the bad. Lol not that my opinion really matters. Love the videos y’all put out!
The thing is that you're saying that it's important to give Ben Shapiro the benefit of the doubt instead of automatically assuming the worst of him which is 100% not the thing you should do. Never in his life has he said anything smart, he SOUNDS smart by talking fast and then uses buzzwords to help people follow along to what he's saying making them think "This is so intelligent!" when in reality he's just mashing together nonsensical words in hopes it makes sense to an audience who will blindly follow him. He has about as much grasp on the law as he does on racism which is none because he doesn't understand any of it. He does quick searches that will justify his racist spiel because he knows his followers aren't going to do their own research and look up what he's talking about, instead he gives them a link to something that says "Racism is okay and here's 10 reasons why you should always agree with me!" (not literally) and people will share it without reading it because they trust Ben and his judgment. This is due to many people being uneducated on today's society but will get upset "Things aren't how they used to be! People are too soft now!" and these are the same people who will get upset over a Black actor/actress portraying a character they perceived as white for most of their lives because they never actually read the original story but instead they perceived the character as white because that's how it was always portrayed in the media. Ben Shapiro will ensure no one smarter than him will debate him because he's just like the Twitch streamer Hasan who thinks he's the smartest person alive until someone smarter than him shows up, they both get upset, they both say "You should vote for MY party because MY part is superior to the OTHER party!" and both will call someone a racist if they hate on them. Ben has literally called people racists for mocking him saying that it's okay for him to be racist but not the other way around, Hasan has literally done the exact same thing.
@@Mortal209
I agree with most of this and I hate to tell you this, but the mermaid is white and if you read the original story, it tells you her skin color. this has been pointed out multiple times already but multiple different people.
So what if he's emotional as long as his emotion is informed by facts. What world are you living in where people don't have emotions?
This is also a show that needs to be entertaining. The balance of the 2 make is what makes this channel so great. If they both reacted the exact same way, this channel would likely be much less popular.
His argument is that its not "systemic" racism. Its just racism. Its illegal and should be taken to court.
At least thats what I gathered from it.
Incorrect. The argument is highlighting systematic racism because he highlighted the policy’s that have been put in place to separate the economic groups.
That's Exactly the point he is making. If it is illegal, you can file suit, or press charges, and take that all the way to the Supreme Court of you wanted to
Yeah, this exactly. It isn't systemic for a bank to have crap policy. I thought we cared about personal responsibility and all, that bank is responsible not the country as a whole.
And if you take it to court and win (which you would most likely provided you have evidence to support the claim), then you will make bank off of that bank. Fuck, I wish a bank would do that to me. Id be filthy rich.
Anyways, if you decide not to take legal action thats your fault, not the system's.
I agree
Ben Shapiro has a podcast you can call in. I would LOVE to hear you guys call him and challenge on the video....respectfully of course 😉
They won't.
They won't. They know they aren't equipped for live debates.
@@OnlyTruths18 Yeah, because Ben will wreck them.
Nah they should with the obvious premise that he'll pull up stats that you cannot confirm live. Get those stats and sources (I'm pretty sure ben will be glad to email them...ideally as many as you can and of topics you want) and if he's right he's right.
No matter what, when you step into someone else's platform you're more likely to get out talked because 1. Their audience is automatically pulling for the host, so no matter if the caller makes good points, they will be disregarded, 2. typically, the caller is on the defense so the host can barrage the caller with a bunch of points with limited time to answer, then whe they are answering one question, they get barraged with questions attacking a tangent point so they're reeling trying to address all the different points.
I've watched/ listen to conservative and liberal talk shows/ podcasts and they all typically go the same way. The host is more about winning an argument rather than having a real discussion and nothing ever gets solved.
"Just because it's been outlawed doesn't mean it isn't happening"
Granted. But is it really "systemic" at that point? The system says the act is illegal. That sounds more like instances of individual racism as opposed to systemic ones.
Is that an even valid point ? You acknowledge there a problem . You acknowledge it exists even though it's made "illegal" . People, companies ,and entities still do illegal acts and the "system" is still in place, regardless if it's renamed or made "illegal"
@Colin
Amen. Apa & Preach defined in their comment that "Systemic Racism" is a condition that is independent of the law and is predicated upon rasism being exhibited in an "organization", what ever that means. Hell, if that's the standard, we will have systemic racism as long as we have retirement homes (seriously, go visit a nursing home some time, those old people make neo nazis seem down right diplomatic).
As much as this pains to agree with Ben Shapiro, that does seem to be playing pretty fast and loose with the definition. Yes, the KKK is a thing, but does their existence mean that the country that produced them is systemically racist?
While I acknowledge that banks are to capitalism as burgers are to 'merica, claiming that a privately own financial bureau demonstrating reprehensible behavior is proof of systemic racism is akin to the claim that you must be a drug dealer because your kid is a pot head.
@@CJDAASSASSIN99 Yes it is a valid point. because its not systemic. Its not across the board. No one denies racism happens, there are individual cases recorded but calling it systemic implies it is affecting the whole industry, which it isnt, and as the guys stated on the times it has happened the banks where punished. An honest question would be to compare it to the % of actual sales that occured, and to look at all the circumstances around each case. In todays climate as we should all know by now, not everyone is an honest actor.
@@davidwalford3103 whole =\= system. The system was still up according to what aba/preach said ( I believe until 2015 or 2017 ) . The system doesn't have to affect 100% of people to be considered a system. I agree with you on " no one denies racism happens " . I'm saying the system is still in place illegally.
@@CJDAASSASSIN99 - My takeaway is that the marxists want to "tear down the system" as if it's to blame for these acts of individual racism. Yet the system is, generally speaking, NOT racist. That doesn't mean that all individual racism has been eliminated. Of course. I don't think it probably ever will be totally purged. But the "system" of the USA is the story of freedom imperfectly applied at the country's birth in 1776, and then our journey to bring everybody under it - from the Constitution and Bill of Rights in 1790, the Civil War, 13th Amendment, Women's Suffrage and the 19th Amendment, the Civil Rights movement and on and on.
loved the dialogue and have watched Ben's video as well, I am happy to see such open discussion and no anger or judgement. We need more of this as a country!! As a Hispanic male, I have seen discrimination first hand but have also seen the opportunities that are available to minorities, I grew up lower/middle class and I moved my self up to upper/middle class and pray that my kids will go even further. 😊
Not all black people have black names, the video tries to make the argument that all black people have black sounding names which is not true. Patrick Mahomes is black and doesnt have a particularly black sounding name. How your name sounds is important not just for black people but for white people as well. More popular names always have had a better chance of getting hired you can look at any baby name website and they tell you that. So the name problem is not a problem exclusive only to black people.
@@DarknessFlameMedia your whole statement is useless in this comment, he expressed discrimination he never once mentioned another group oppressing him or being oppressed he simply stated as a Hispanic male he has felt discrimination which is true, please point out which statement he said “no other group has experienced what I have.”
@@ryanjones8156 ok? Why didn’t you say that in the actual comment section and not in another comment? Also nobody is debating names at all. Also how is Jamal a black sounding name when it’s actually an Arabic one?
@@DarknessFlameMedia he isn't belittling the minority populous, but he is saying he agrees because it relates to the people who relate with that struggle.
Eh they get justifiably pretty frustrated over some of Ben's stupidity.
Really enjoyed Abba paying credit where credit was due and being able to agree and desagree respectfully.
Smh......anyone arguing if this IS or ISN'T reality is FOS and doesn't practice in critical thinking! 🤷🏽♂️ Guarantee BEN knows he is FOS!
@@daddyfamlittle6262 Well theres alot of Blacks who are very wealthy here in Texas. But i also agree with these two. So i dont know. Ive noticed theres more segregation in other states despite the huge stereotype Texas has from others who dont live here. And alot of low income areas are mixed race. Now im not saying all. But in San Antonio, alot of neighborhoods will have whites and hispanics.
Class is in a lot more cases more significant than race. Most people in jail are underclass. Not only black. Bankers also give less loans to poor white ppl than rich white people. Etc etc. Also 1 example doesn't proof anything in science.
@@Madrrrrrrrrrrr Yes but this video literally said that if two families had the same income and had the same living circumstances, that the white family would get the loan. That is brainwashing to the max. Its an utter lie. I would say at least 95% of the time it wont happen. They care more about money than race i assure you. As a white dude i had to change my address to get a loan. Luckily im related to the guy so i wont get in trouble
@@matt59fire Ben Shapiro also proved that in this video. The study didn't compare same situations. They do that all the time with woke situations. It's much better to try to help to whole underclass to have more upward mobility instead of playing identity politics all the time. But Aba & Preach do understand that. I know when i see people who understand liberalism for what it really is.
As a white southern conservative, I appreciate the unbiased discussion. It’s constructive and critical at the same time. We need more intelligent conversation like this at higher levels. I wish both sides would drop narratives and focus on non political solutions. I learned things that I didn’t know before and I’m thankful.
may I ask what a non political solution would look like?
@@soren_4766 People trying to understand each other and show respect with a non political angle or agenda outside of a large organization
@@nothere2610 impossible when racism isn't merely a social phenomenon but ingrained within fundamental institutions.
@@soren_4766 You're very right but it must start with the people outside of those of those tribalized groups are else it won't even have a chance
@@nothere2610 i understand what you mean, informing the public and what not, but the education system counts as an institution. therefore, if we teach necessary topics to the new generations they are less likely to grow up and be a bigot. when there was an uproar after floyds passing, was that not enough to inform and unite the public? with the sole cause of bringing justice to a fellow human being, if that wasn't enough, then how many more innocent black people must die before everyone wakes up?
What draws me into your channel is that even when you heavily disagree with people, you still are humble enough to acknowledge the good points that are made which makes you and your channel rather unique. Great video as always.
Only Aba, I rarely see Preach doing this.
Bottom line, some people are just doomed. It is really hard for such a big land mass to help everyone out.
From the US census 2000: People who had the surname "Washington", 90% identify being black; "Jefferson", 75% identify as black. Hence the use in the study.
Yeah, but it's not about how many people with the surname "Washington" or "Jefferson" are black, it's about how many people think other people with the surname "Washington" or "Jefferson" are black. They might seem like the same thing on the surface, but they're not. In the same video, there's an example of something similar: There's a difference between how many millionaires inherit their wealth and how many people think millionaires inherit their wealth.
Also Ben's point is pointed at going off of the last name, not the first name
These guys are canadian they don't know that.
The fuck does identify as black mean?
@@mitigamespro8757 On the US census there is a race question, about six categories. Black is among them.
Preach had his mind made up before the video started 🤣🤣
We know the truth, if you live it then you don't need to have a white dude like Ben tell you how racism runs throughout our societies. Ben likes to hide behind his Jewish victim complex and his use of "framed facts." What makes me want to punch him is not that what he says but the fact that as a scientist who understands how he loves to manipulate data and studies shows that he has a complete understanding of what he is doing and yet he still does so for his own personal gain and to push the political agenda for those who fund him. Ignorance annoys me but knowingly using your education to manipulate others with malicious intent is despicable.
so did Ben
@@hj2479 exactly.. like when he pretends that because something is illegal that means it is not happening.. clearly that is wrong
@Harley Davidson Motors 1 is plenty. I simply do not understand how so many Americans can not follow some very simple guidelines. Thanks to those people I get to now sit in DOH advisory committees figuring out how we keep the death toll down while these people run rampant. The political powers that be won't approve as they still need votes however if you ask me, I say the best way to deal with this is simply to make these stupid and deadly acts temporarily illegal because nothing makes one reevaluate like some jail time. The death count in the US is at half a million people already and yet there are fools running around treating these numbers like statistics, not people, if only they too had to see the dead bodies month after month then they might just understand what is really at stake.
@@voiceofreason7558 No where in Ben's entire monologue did he say just because something is illegal that it is no longer happening. And this is my general problem with their critique of Ben's argument. They're mostly critiquing what Ben isn't saying rather than what he is saying. Now, they don't do that the whole video but they do it alot.
In the modern day USA, racism still exists, but it's NOT THE ONLY reason for lack of success. The problem is that people use it as a cop out/excuse when they don't don't apply themselves & succeed.
🙌🏽
Yes
There are also people who try their best, but still remain in the bottom.
You can't judge by sitting at home or because you have had opportunities wide open for yourself.
I'm Hispanic and doing well for myself. I hate when my mom brings up that hispanics can't succeed because we're look down upon. Success is entirely up to the individual. Racism does exist but it's not a universal barrier that affects everyone and every one of your decisions. Sure, we might encounter racism that prohibits us from doing whatever we set out to do. But there's always another opportunity its not 1 and done then cry. We can all succeed if we put the effort and apply ourselves.
@@samlsd9711 You don't know he/she had opportunities wide open. There are plenty of people who try their best, but their best isn't good enough. You find another fucking level and you keep grinding. If you can't handle that, guess what? You're right where you belong.
Great job breaking down a tough subject. I’ve studied this topic and taught it and it’s difficult for most to grasp, mostly because of political bias. Ben is a victim of the the same problem and he’s smart enough to know this. He omits premises that counter him on purpose and that makes his disingenuous. The solution is similar to what you both said, it’s an individual and a systemic problem. Complex problems are usually never one or the other.
listening to Ben is like watching in 2x speed
I feel like he does that to appear as extremely intelligent and in some way superior... it's giving him an arrogant tone
@@juliaseazar Pretty sure he's just a fast talker, i remember watching him years ago and he talked so much faster, seems like he's trying to correct that
@@juliaseazar Ben doesn't purposely talk fast in order to seem intelligent. That's how he naturally speaks, if you can't comprehend fast talking put the video on slow and it'll make a lot of sense of what he's saying.
@@juliaseazar LMAO YOU ARE ONE INSECURE BITCH XD
@@sh4hriar jews talk fast that's the sterotype that your missing there
I like how these guys were disagreeing but still open to what he would say next. I love this
If people listened more and talked less, we would have so much more understanding and far less conflict in this world
I am fans of both and I agree that sometimes Ben doesn't see the full picture when it comes to topics like this. I don't agree with everything he says but I do like how transparent he is with his sources so you can research yourself.
Thats because they are coming from a place of understanding and finding a solution....good faith. Can Ben say the same?
@@kamfromtmrradio3088 Ben absolutely does compromise with many things but he also has strong Judaic values that he isn't willing to stray from. That's his prerogative and he has every right to his beliefs. He doesn't hold back when he is in debate mode and that's because his goal is to win the argument.
@@captaincaveman8532 spare me my man. I know the type of dude Ben is. His Jewish roots have nothing to do with that. He doesnt debate from a healthy place of good faith but to be right even when he is objectively wrong. Case and point this video.
I like that you said both matters. Coming from a poor family & being white I can't speak on the black experience. I can say class is real. The way banks, teachers, cops everyone treats the poorest people are horrible. Great conversation guys.
Of course...I remember Bill Burr (who is married to a black woman and has two young black children, so...he has a 'dog in this fight so to speak,') but he argued white privilege is kinda silly and doesn't exist because you've got this white kid who's been sexually abused, raised in poverty and he's got privilege over Will Smith's son.
I think he misses the point though. It's not JUST about race, but it's pretty straight forward...in general, black people have had it much worse in this country historically. That redlining was outlawed AS EARLY as 1968 doesn't mean it didn't still exist well into the 1980s.
Anecdotal, but a story about a Green Bay Packer who tried to move to a white area where I live in Wisconsin (actually...late 70s, but it leaked into the 1980s). They burned a fucking cross on his lawn and threw rocks at his house.
This is in a suburban middle-upper class community. My Grandparents bought a house for 35K in 1960, it was worth several million when they sold it.
But NOW it's getting to be just as hard for everyone. My parents bought a house for 63K that's worth 500K now. They bought it 2 years after the former Packer(who was and is beloved among the fan base) was kinda run out.
All people can have obstacles...I think the point is that if you're black, many of those obstacles were put in place by white people and simply to obstruct people of color.
@@scourge8097 white privilege is speaking on how the average livelihood of a whites person vs a black is different due past institutions and some aren’t completely done away with or systems are in place to help people who’ve been stomped so low! It’s about the MACRO scale Not the micro individual scale! Of course every individual may have a shitty life black or whites! It’s like single parent vs both parents! With me comparing single parenting to black people and having both to white people! Having both doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be successful since they’re shitty parents you can be born into or life can just operate differently! And you can say having a single parent doesn’t automatically equate to failing because you can have a great single parent or you can personally develop to overcome those challenges ! But there is no denying that it would be harder and you’re at a disadvantage for having a single parent! Same thing with race in America !
Classism seems more powerful (from my subjective pov).
Rich white people get together to call poor white people white trash.
(When Irish people first came over, they were called, among other things, "white (n-words)."
I'm not saying the Irish struggle compares to the black struggle, a lot of it had to do with the hatred of Catholicism at the time. The Italians were put down for the same thing, not being protestant/a WASP.
I feel that identifying current illegal redlining as systemic is misleading due to the fact that the word "Systemic" implies it's written into the system that people follow. There's no denying that it still happens but it seems to be individuals following their own rules rather than the system instructing them to do so. Other than that semantics distinction, I agree with your points.
At the end of the failure to enforce the law is another system. 🤷♂
I really like how rational and well reasoned this reaction video is. That’s what a healthy discussion looks like, disagreement without disdain. Also really nice to see that even if you didn’t fully agree, you still managed to find common ground. Well done guys!
there is no common ground between the oppressed and the oppressor
@@GZZI11ION dude shut the fuck up. People like you are the reason we can’t have reasonable discussions about this shit
@@REVV0219 people like you are the reason minorities die in the street
@@GZZI11ION In some situations, yes, but in the this video, not exactly. If alsome white guy openly expressed their hatred for minorities with no dignity or self respect, then debating with that man is futile. You are not expected to put yourself in danger and talk with them. HOWEVER, if you are talking with someone about something like systematic racism, you can find a middle ground and explain your point. I hope you understand.
@@talon310calif given how sensitive this topic is I suppose there may be some disagreement for sure, but I just thought it was it was way better than the yelling you usually see
I want to see Ben Shapiro‘s response, I feel like a very interesting discussion can come of it.
With the number of views this reaction video is getting, there will for sure be a response to this reaction video.
Phil I’d want to see it but I really doubt he would.
I've seen quite a few Ben Shapiro videos at this point on systemic racism and I find them quite unintelligible. His annalysis always begins and ends with legislation its like any other forces are invisible to him. Furthermore, when presented with evidence he will milk every other possibility except race in explaining it to the point of uncomfortability. So I don't really think the discussion will be interesting.. I do hope Ben gets educated if indeed these are his genuine views.
GoatSuperHero No, watch his “discussion” with Andrew Neil, with just a small amount of pushback, the fool breaks down. The idiots in America coddle the idiot because they want to creat a brand around him. Even when trying to “destroy” college kids he struggles on occasion. He would never purposefully put himself in a position where he would truly be challenged.
No you don’t. Ben is an idiot
i like how unbiased you guys are about this, youre open to his arguments the whole time. we need more of this
Amen, my guy!
Anyone not open to Ben Shapiros arguments is most likely wrong. His arguments are always solid.
@@MrLamigra1337 *Mostly. No one is perfect.
@@courier4529 i personally have not heard a Shapiro argument that wasnt solid. Understanding the man himself isn't perfect, but he chooses his arguments wisely and is very articulate in the points he makes.
@@MrLamigra1337 his arguments are always solid? what? I am an ex ben shapiro dickrider, and trust me his arguments are far from solid. His sheer ignorance on research about things like the war on drugs and how black people are targeted by systems is laughable. Thank god i escaped from his ignorance, or even lies now that I think about it.
Only 5 minutes into the video but I wanted to make this point. Redlining as a legal practice is a form of systemic racism. However, like you said, the justice department came down on banks in 2015 for redlining. If the federal systems punish private banks for racist practices, that doesn't sound like a systemic form of racism to me.
Anyways, love you guys. Excited for the rest of the video.
Not all black people have black names, the video tries to make the argument that all black people have black sounding names which is not true. Patrick Mahomes is black and doesn't have a particularly black or white sounding name. How your name sounds is important not just for black people but for white people as well. More popular names always have had a better chance of getting hired you can look at any baby name website and they tell you that. So the name problem is not a problem exclusive only to black people. Hope 1 of you gets the opportunity to read the message
@@ryanjones8156 That wasn’t their point either. They said that ‘Washington’ isn’t a historical black name.
Saying that it’s ok because not all black people have black sounding names diverts the argument. Because you are then almost admitting that black sounding names are undesirable and have negative connotations linked to them. Not just black but Hispanic, Asian etc. Now you can argue that isn’t intrinsically linked to racism as anyone can be named anything and a name doesn’t represent race. But when the discussion is framed as ‘black names’, ‘white names’, ‘Asian names. It is.
Just because one system is against another does not mean that another that it is against does not exist. You also contradicted yourself in saying the system didn't exist, after admitting, that the system still exists to this day.
@@Delimon007 I never once said that these systems do not exist. I simply said that when the federal government punishes banks for racist practices, it goes against evidence of extant systemic racism. I also never said that systemic racism has never existed, it clearly has. Finally, when speaking of systemic racism its important to notice the difference between all kinds of systems and the proverbial "system".
no but you can have people in the system that disagree with the government and still have power so it still exists, come on man! think!
I think Ben was just trying to show the reason’s other than systemic racism that were contributing factors. The guy in the video laid out the argument for the systemic reasons so Ben tried to show that it wasn’t the only contributor. Don’t think he’s trying to say it doesn’t exist, just trying to point out the many over exaggerations in the video
I think this statement here is the truth , be told .
No Ben just didn’t believe in systematic racism.
@@hiimricky9617 He acknowledged its existence in the video so you're wrong.
The point of his video was debunking the video he was reacting to not systemic racism itself
It sounds to me like there's definitely anti-black systemic discrimination, however it's pretty clear that the source of this are the financial and politicial elites as opposed to your average white person. The takeaway here is that BLM needs to stop alienating white people who are in support of black success in society and enemies of white people neutral towards it by accusing all white people of racism and painting them as hateful bigots.
Why does everyone cry about the lack of access to the "good schools", but votes with a party that is against SCHOOL CHOICE?
honestly, good question
Why not properly fund the schools that are already in the neighborhood the family lives in. School voucher can only go so far and are an individualistic solution to a bigger issue. You can't take all the students from one school to put them in a bunch of others (probably farther) schools.
@@theworst4297 If you want to see a school "rise to the occasion", allow charter schools to compete. When public schools have nonstop funding with little accountability (actually, low scoring schools get MORE funding, not less), they have ZERO incentive to change. Plus, the unions make sure that teachers are okay to be mediocre, so long as they vote Blue and pay their dues. Believe me, i worked for a school in the lowest scoring County in California and handled the school's budget.
@@aliciag1287 that still doesn't really go against the statements I have made. We should totally sift out bad teachers and train better teachers. I totally agree, the public school structure doesn't really require for teachers to grow and get better at their jobs.
So as teachers get better, and when they know that every family has a voucher in their hand they can make their OWN decision to go to the school they want, the schools will begin to compete to be the recipient of as many vouchers as possible.
No vouchers, no more school.
Bens point is that people who believe systemic racism is the answer for all inequality is wrong.
And he’s right about that it’s a factor not the cause
Exactly.
@Jorge Adame I systematically murdered someone, does that make its societies fault? Putting the word systematically in front of the act doesn't displace blame for the actors actions. You act as if cops are ganging up and planting evidence on black folks to frame them for crimes they didn't commit. The reality is acts like you are describing are outliers and shouldn't be used to reflect the majority of good-doers. These people are guilty of racist crimes, but just because one or two cops do it doesn't mean all cops are bad.
@Jorge Adame If I use my credit card to buy a gun and then shoot someone with said gun, is it the credit card company's fault? No. You can't displace blame like this because the individual is the person accountable for their actions.
@Jorge Adame bud, if u put drugs in my car, and the system arrests me, thats bc ur an asshole, not because it's racism. For the love of God stop saying this shit. U wanna know how u end racism, stop making everything about race. Call bad behavior and bad individuals out, but don't call it systematic. Thats just not true.
It's refreshing to see someone check Ben Shapiro when he's wrong 😂! He had the habit of stating some factual things while purposely omitting others.
The problem is Aba & Preach caught and rebutted 33% of Ben's legal raci... rant. This is only a difficult topic if you have not done enough research on the topic to effectively debunk the debunker. You will not find all of it on the internet, guys sorry. Its time to read books of the declassified documents the Obama Administration released with no announcement.
Exactly. Ben Shapiro gets some things right. But he does 2 things wrong quite often: 1) Like you perfectly stated, he does appear to omit things that would otherwise hamper his case, which to me is troubling as he comes across as potentially acting in bad faith. He tends to ignore nuances. 2) When the facts are unconditionally on his side, he generally does not dig deep enough nor does bring up the other side. For example, he might state that there is a correlation between graduating high school and being "successful" and he will state that black folks graduate high school at lower rates than white folks. But he doesn't dig deeper. Why is this the case Ben? He leaves it at "individual decisions" when there is a whole other school of thought that goes deeper into talking about systemic problems in America which effectively create additional obstacles and less opportunities for certain people (e.g., K-12 poor schools vs. wealthier schools). He doesn't like to directly address this other school of thought and fights around it instead.
Y’all should invite him on your show. He would probably love to talk with y’all! 😊
He would change their minds or wreck them.
@@500ml_in_6minutes
it's easy for you to say, -
you're stupid. Your brain is easily wrecked and changed for the worse.
I don't think they could possibly prepare for his style of arguing
@@forrealforreal588 It would be hard to argue with someone who is smart
That would be actually pretty interesting
"Why can't it be both?"
Because Politics, that's why.
Because most things can't be two things at the same time
@@Anikin3- Most things are multiple things at the same time, everything is intertwined.
@@lucyandecember2843 the glass can't be half empty and half full at the same time tho
@@Anikin3- your example literally states a condition that describes the same thing from 2 perspectives. That is even the whole point of the metaphor. You tried to devalue December's statement, and accidently made his point for him/her. /facepalm
@@Raussl dude the water level is right in the middle of the cup
According to ‘The Atlantic’ on Feb 2011, they published article “How ‘Washington’ Became the Blackest Name in America. They mentioned that 90% of 163,036 were AA, and they theorized that when slaves were given their freedom they chose particular last names and this was among one of them.
To have this kind of civil and level headed conversation is very refreshing. Thank you
he was "debunking" the idea that you can lay everything at the feet of racism, as he states at the end of the video.
Lord Jay you weren’t listening. He was debunking the idea that everything can be laid at the feet of systemic racism, not that it doesn’t exist.
It sounds to me like there's definitely anti-black systemic discrimination, however it's pretty clear that the source of this are the financial and politicial elites as opposed to your average white person. The takeaway here is that BLM needs to stop alienating white people who are in support of black success in society and enemies of white people neutral towards it by accusing all white people of racism and painting them as hateful bigots.
@Lord Jay they skipped Te beginning of the video where Ben said he was debunking the video itself. He said in the beginning there two types of systemic racism and he was arguing for one
Racism is one of the main contributers next to class which leads to economic strife in the black community he didn't debunk anything nobody is saying race is the only issue unless they're spec ed
@@dowskivisionmagicaloracle8593 Well said! The news media (mostly White) paints this false narrative of not trusting white people, but you can trust me because i am a woke news personality and I am on your side.
I really appreciate Aba rationally discussing these issues, and addressing every point made with something relevant to it.
And I especially like that he admits when the other person is right, and takes that into consideration.
This is how we need to have discussions.
More people need to learn from this.
Is a good vid, fair and reasoned
I really wish more people saw things like Aba. Most people are like preach and want to completely dismiss what Shapiro said. While Aba acknowledges that both sides are right and that both sides are intentionally dismissing the other side solely for political gain.
This comment 👏🏾 💯
Yes! When need more people who can see the right and wrong of both sides. Especially in the race debates and the feminism vs man's right debates and we need to stop avoiding discussing sensitive subject.
Preach is married to a white woman so he get to compare things of this matter on a daily. Aba is intelligent but lacks real life experiences am sure in ten years his views will change.
I love Preach, but when he gets triggered by something he stops thinking & his emotions get the best of him. He wears how he feels & thinks on his face. I always appreciate his perspective though.
I think preach was on point throughout the entire video. Shapiro is dismissing a lot of important factors in order to disingenuously prove his point
Wow one of the most well balanced and thoughtful conversation I think I’ve ever heard on RUclips. Well done gentlemen
"It so happens that whites were turned down for mortgage loans at a higher rate than Asian Americans, but that fact seldom made it into the newspaper headlines or the political rhetoric. Nor did either the mainstream media or political leaders mention the fact that black-owned banks turned down black mortgage loan applicants at least as often as white-owned banks did." - Sowell
This should be the top comment. Thomas Sowell, greatest black thinker alive and most don't even know who he is. But blame that on "systemic racism" too instead of your ignorant, ghetto asses.
Its 60% white vs what 8% asian, it makes sense white ppl wld get turned away more 😆 there is more of u theres more that aint qualified for a loan lol
And black owned banks are following the rules they must to be accepted in the banking community 😆
@@truthseeker6377
He isn't greatest black thinker alive...He is one of the best alive period.
@Windigo Jones amen
Preach has the look on his face of a kid who's forced to visit his least favorite aunt for 2 hours.
I lived in a situation where I had to cut my budget to the bare bones, just to be able to save $200 a month. I'm talking ramen city. It took me 5 months to put together the 1,000 for the first months rent and deposit on a new place. It sucked. I hated it, and I went without so much. But I moved, outta that city. The exact same job in a different city made all the difference.
That’s where I think preach falls short. I get it, you may have been dealt a horrible hand. But at the end of the day, you just need to accept that no one is going to save you. You need to grit your teeth, suffer through the hard times because you know something better is ahead. Its like taking medicine or having a surgery.
@@ralegade7710 Okay, how does that disprove systemic racism 🤔🤔?
@@ralegade7710 he's not asking someone to save him he's asking people to understand and stop being oblivious to people's situation. People expect you to have this and that and you can't because of systems that wasn't in place for you.
@TO Niwa Because a significant portion of society got conditioned to accept that the "everyone is out for themselves" philosophy is an unchangeable state.
But that's not true since people can change. If we want to develop and grow we gotta evolve past this. Working together made us the apex species of this planet after all.
@@ralegade7710 Exactly. I see too many people expecting others to magically fix their lives for them. Life is hard you gotta be harder.
Preach is the man, love his observation. They deserve a national platform on mainstream or streaming. Seriously these two should have a daily show type of thing. They deserve a bigger platform.
google search of top black last names in america.
"The 2000 U.S. Census counted 163,036 people with the surname Washington. Ninety percent of them were African-American, a far higher black percentage than for any other common name." "Smith was at 23%, Johnson was at 34%"
I came to the comments for the same reason! Ben's point was valid, based on data, rather than the experience-based response of Aba and Preach!!
Please, link your information.
www.nbcnews.com/id/41704238/ns/us_news-life/t/washington-blackest-name-america/
@@willconstantinople6434 one discriminates based on their feelings and experience, not data
if the employer FEELS Jones is more of a black name than Washington based on the employer's EXPERIENCE, that is more of a factor than real data
@@Heard2 your point is valid, regarding how people actually behave, but the flip side to that is that their experience of 'data' (the commonality of these surnames for example among black people they meet, consider for jobs, etc.) over time is likely to alter their perception. They might feel that Jones is a 'more black name', but it wouldn't take many experiences of meeting black people with the surname Washington or Jefferson to change their feeling. This won't be universal, obviously, as people's interactions aren't identical, but reflects the fact that our views (prejudicial or otherwise) are neither formed in a vacuum nor immutable. Also, to be fair, the specific point that I was addressing in the video was how incredulous they both seemed at a point that is actually supported by data - they seemed to treat as ridiculous the idea that 'Washington' and 'Jefferson' are 'black names', when there does seem to be a strong correlation.
A lot of black people in America actually do have the last names Jefferson and Washington.
Sure but the point was that it's not an immediate "black sounding" last name. He pointed out that most people may just think of the founding fathers, as opposed to an African American person.
I’ve met 3 people throughout highschool all black with the last name Washington and 2 with the last name white. So these guys probably never met one.
Their point's valid, I think, b/c as a white guy who's moved around a lot and dealt with a lot of black people, I don't associate the names, Jefferson and Washington as "black-sounding." I most associate them with the two US presidents.
Poochie Collins good for you. We all have different experiences with the people we meet. It’s not like you’ll find every person with the last name Ramirez is Mexican. There are plenty of puertorriqueños and other Latins with the last name Ramirez why can’t it be true for these names? You guys just generalize everyone together and make a big deal out of something that affected specific groups of people.
@@GuwJuice_PttP : I'm not really following you, sorry. Like what do you mean by "you guys"?
The point being made by Ben, is that racism is not systemic. If laws say targeting loans away from people based on race or sector is illegal, and an individual person still does is, unlawfully. That is not systemic. That is one person breaking the law. That would be like arguing that murder is allowed in the us because some people still murder even though it's illegal. And someone's going to come on here and say that "well their still getting away with it" but yet even aba and preach can show the "settlements being made" against the entities who are doing this illegally. Meaning that the people who are going against these policies. Are being held accountable. I still have yet to see one example of systemic racism that holds. If I'm wrong. Please show me. And btw. I love your guys videos. Even though I disagree with some of the things you guys say, i agree with most. And even where we disagree it's always nice to hear a viewpoint that opposes mine that actually uses logic and factual information that i can try to learn from and bend my own views against
Thanks for saving me the time of typing this exact point.
@Chris George so which is it? Individuals in power or systemic? If your argument is that its individuals in power then that isn't systemic. Ben always quotes this and I believe in it wholeheartedly. Find a racist individual and I will prosecute and condemn them with you. You cant stop every bad person from being a bad person. It's not possible. And you cant associate bad individuals with a system that openly condemns them and removes them whenever made known of it. Its not systemic. Hasn't been for decades. Its individuals. And still until you show me a system in play that doesnt condemn behavior like that then I cant get on the bandwagon unfortunately. I just dont see systemic racism being a reality in the 21st century. I see individuals, who more often then not, as soon as they are actually exposed get condemned as a whole by society. That's not a racist society thankfully.
@Chris George unfortunately there's a huge difference between feels like it is and what it actually is, especially when your talking about a solution. The claim today isn't that "a select few individuals in power still linger some effects of systemic racism" . The claims of the activism is pretty openly "the entire system is racist and if you dont agree with me then you, by supporting the system, are racist as well. Now the solution to the systemic would be simple. Change laws. But we did that decades ago. The solution to the other is even simpler, although not as easy to execute and not as perfectly sustainable. The splution being, find racist individuals. And condemn them as a society. And I absolutely believe that, in the USA in 2020. Very few individuals dont follow this social system. I dont know a single person who would say that George floyd wasn't wrongfully murdered and that the cop didn't deserve severe punishment. I also dont know a single normal person who would say that the kkk or neo nazis are good people. Or that people who are proven, not alleged racists, because proof is very important, need to be cast from society entirely, do you disagree?
@Chris George I think when these people consider who and where to invest in it just comes down to money. I dont think its racism i think its just coming from a hard logic position of reliability. If you look at the culture of a ton of black people its definitely their biggest issue. Shitty culture gives rise to shitty mindset. I used to be a part of it. A lot of my family still carries it. Tho tbh i dont think i need to experience it to know if i was a financial advisor id likely stray away from people who seemingly adopt that culture. Just doesnt seem like a smart investment on the surface. So as usual money>everything else including racism.
@@00J-Tone I am black and I'm from a poor family. I have family in jail for bad decisions and I have loved ones actively making bad decisions. The best example of systematic racism is cultural appropriation. We all enjoy a good black joke every now and then but these notions that bad decisions are apart of the black community is apart of a theory that existed years ago; Willy Lynch. In America there is only one identified culture and all others are foreign, that's American culture. Please try to avoid accrediting the negatives of poor communities to black culture.
I taught for 12 years at an inner ring suburb school outside Cleveland and the bulk of our student population were families had moved from poorer locations in Cleveland to our district so they could go to a better school. Most everything you described about what would happen has happened there.
saying "redlining still exists even though the law has been passed" isn't a great argument. it's like saying "murder still exists even though the law has been passed." redlining is NEVER going to end, because people will break the law. that means that redlining today is inherently GOING AGAINST the "system." that makes it sort of the opposite of "systemic"
So we need to report them not wine about it and the thing is we don't tolerate redlining, that's why your argument doesn't work if a country made something illegal it doesn't mean its going to stop immediately we have to enforce our laws and report those who may be involved doing this, and it is hard to find out if someone is doing it since it can be easily covered up
That is true, however wealth is something that doesn't change that much through generations, and if your grand parents were victims of red lining, changes are, it's going to affect your socioeconomic status as well.
But if redlining is being done covertly by institutions, how is it not systemic? From what I know from the definition, not only the laws and government include what's considered a system
So we need to report them.and not whine. Yeah guys so report the banks, we'll get them to change their minds. Just gotta stop whining LMFAOOO
wouldn't it be a part of the system since there isn't anything/ anyone actively trying to prevent it?
Could you do an interview with Coleman Hughes. He has a lot of interesting topics and his voice needs to be heard by a lot more people
I like his stuff, I recommend his perspective to folks. While I dont 100% agree with him, I like his stuff regardless.
Coleman is great
And he’s chill af. Even with sensitive topics.
Coleman Hughes is great
I predict preach will not make a disgusted face when he talks regardless of the points he makes....and I cry racism
As a Ben Shapiro fan, and an @Aba&Preach fan, I would love to see you go on Ben’s show for a Sunday special or have Ben on your show for a productive debate on this subject.
That would be great
I second that.
There’s no reason to do this whatsoever and is completely unnecessary.
@@rook9309 I think you should of had no reason to post that message whatsoever and it was completely unnecessary.
Sahblade - Ok. What did you have some kind of epiphany or something?
when ben was talking about "moving" i believe he was talking about "if the voucher system was in place they could move schools without moving houses" but he didnt word it like that.
Race, Ethnicity, gender should be removed from all applications (college, work, financial, etc...) Credit history should be the only thing that matters on financial applications, grades/scores should be the only thing that matter on college applications, employment/legal history and degrees should be the only things that matter on employment applications.
Yessss
Well college is very relevant as a having the same GPA at Harvard compared to an average college is nowhere near the same
It allcomes down to iq, the distribution of which varies substantially across races.
not credit history as that just pushes people to get debt
same goes for voting!! we shouldn't know any of what you just said ...just vote 1. 2. 3 based on the values and promises they bring to the table...then when it comes to the tally and such it could be like a gender reveal party ...BLAM this is what we got lol
You guys dont seem to understand the definition of "systemic".
Just because something WAS systemic, became illegal, but there are instances where the same exact (now illegal) thing is still practiced by select places, that is NOT systemic.
Not all places will be using the same practice, and those that do use that illegal practice can be punished if caught. Some places do it, and it's wrong, but it's not systemic racism. It's racism of the individual.
Systemic means throughout the system or common practice ... pointing out a few cases of racism does not make it systemic ... and does not mean racism is trhe cause of the problem .... Shapiro is right
My question is what system is perpetuating racism? Is it the system or the people within the system exploiting power? If it's the people within the system exploiting power, then the argument changes. For example, the United States is a Constitutional Republic (not a Democracy). When you read the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution, it does not uphold the ideas of systematic racism. Yes, the writers and founders of these documents didn't live up to their own words, but neither documents which created our current system supports racism. The system itself was damn near perfect, but the INDIVIDUAL(S) under that system ignored their own doings thus making them flawed. It's like blaming gun violence on all gun and not the individual(s) shooting the gun. When it comes to systematic racism, it seems to come from the decision of individual(s) and not the system. I would agree that the "system" is exploited to advance certain behaviors and ideas...Instead of looking at the system we must examine the individual(s) assuming the power to discriminate and work back to find the core of the problem. You'll probably find this issue across America, but it's not systematic if the system does not allow such practices (IT'S THE INDIVIDUAL(S)/Groups).
Devin Neely Preach!
@Donkey Balls SHHHHHHHH ... how will they claim victimhood status !
@Donkey Balls I'm fully aware of that....just trying to make a point.
My elementary school was 99% white and 76% at or below poverty. That was twenty years ago and now a lot of the people I grew up with are no better off than than their parents. The meth dose not help.
Was this in the Midwest?
@@A.S._Trunks no west coast
Brian, how did the other 1% fare?
@@timiagrant3600 hard to say. Some of those kids where in the same poverty situation as there white counterparts. It’s anecdotal but I have minority friends that did very well after high school and a few that did not fair as well. It was really about the family structure and support at home.
@@brianritter5612 If I had to guess it would be AZ
Re-watching this, i have so much respect for Aba for holding his ground and giving him the benefit of the doubt. I find it to be such a Nobel outlook to life. Really going to try and put this into my everyday life. Will keep you posted on my progress!
Ben "DEBUNKED" the video itself. Not the cause. The video in question made it sound like it was the gospel truth.
Thomas Sowell and Larry Elder and many others have already debunked systemic rascism.
@ExQtics Of course you can. It's already been done. There is no proof of systemic racism. Again, guys like Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell have already torn that narrative apart. It doesn't exist.
@ExQtics debunk doesn't just mean proving something non-existent, it also means reducing the inflated reputation of something or someone.
@ExQtics Thats nonsense and you still have no proof. I'm an atheist btw. You're not going to convince me of anything with god arguments. lol. You need actual evidence and proof of your claims. Not a vague feeling in your gut that "teh systum is rahcist".
Is it systemic if the system outlaws it? I think Ben isn’t saying it doesn’t exist but it’s not the system it’s an individual act.
It's hard to consider it an individual act when people who maintain those systemic racist ideals are put in places of power within our society.
@@yahtoray3 That would not make it systemic.
@@yahtoray3 if they were put in place of the office then it wouldn't of been outlawed, it still be in place. is it racism you cant really say do to the fact the banks dont have to give out loans if your credit score is lower. That has to be a factor in this if a black couple has a higher credit score than a white one yet the black couple doesn't get a loan and the white does then its racism. If not then its not racism, its poor financial designs. You would meed more data on it to determine if its racism or not.
To this point, they're saying redlining still existed and it was in the news a few years ago.. well it was in the news bc something was being done about it once it was found out... Hints redlining being outlawed. In this case it wasnt the system it was one bank and they were punished.
There are so many points of contention here and my fingers would fall off before I could touch on them all. But this one stood out to me
Ben's argument is the same as an alcoholic. As long as I can function,I'm not an alcoholic. America :as long as the system is functional it's not racist. The 1st step in solving the problem is admitting there is one.
FYI I did a fact check on the last name thing.
The verdict: Washington and Jefferson each appeared within the top 150 historically black last names in US census.
Washington and Jefferson were nowhere to be found on historically white last names US census for the first ~1000 last names. I gave up once I got to 973.
Therefore, yes. Jefferson and Washington are historically black last names and it is easy to find that information.
Actually youre kinda looking for what you wanna see, how about google the origin of the name jefferson and washington, there english names of white ppl, do you know why black ppl have those names bc throughout history mainly chattel slavery, slaves indigenous names from africa were thrown away and they were given last names of the slave owners eg the slave owner was jefferson so you are now jeffersons slave, so althouugh these names are seen as black in todays society that wasn't always the case, the disperity happens as americans moved away from their english origins and colonialiazation and thus as time progressed the adapted other names that didm't associate with the english ppl meaning british but the black people african americans, inherited those names and now in modern society, we know alot of ppl with those names as black....also sorry for my grammar
Yeah but what about uk?
I appreciate your fact check, but does that information take onto account that 100% African Americans that are here in this country wear the name of a caucasian? Unless your a post slavery imagrant you do not own your own origional name, religion, or heritage. So that whole black last name thing is BS. Go find me a African native with the last name Washington.
@@jhacebuckley5204 white people made the English language... therefore all names are white names
Do you see how dumb that argument sounds? That's what you sound like
90% of Americans names Washington are African American.
75% of Americans named Jefferson are African American
The problem is they think we’re screaming victim for no reason
I love how every video is Aba doing most of the talking and Preach mostly nodding in agreement, but it still wouldn't be the same without Preach.
Did you mix their names up?
@@lemonzest_ I did indeed. RIP. Thank you for the heads up haha
So it's NOT in the system. It's done illegally, then we expose it. Millions of us black people have been soaring in all aspects against all odds
But it can be systematic since the system isn’t doing enough to stop it.
Against all the single parent house holds
@@dontknow4995 neither are you. Maybe it is a personal problem then too? I'm just being a dick, but at the same time, since when did interpersonal issues become the governments responsibility to solve? What have they ever solved in an efficient way?
Also... money is all that matters. Redlining in 2020 is only about profit margins. There are no 2020 kids avoiding black areas for the hell of it. They are simply going to the mall in whatever closest city (high income/spending area) it is located in.
I really appreciate the discussions held on this channel and by its viewers tho. Maybe more people can start to see the results of a system without automatically thinking everyone involved, at least at the individual level, is hateful in some way.
But it is also in the system and in the institutions in this country like they literally explain that in the video
Murder doesn't exist. It has been outlawed. Hooray!
6:00 Pretty sure what Ben was saying that redlining isn't systemic. Yes it could still be happening rn (just like slavery) but the system does not endorse said actions.
@Jay Torres same with corporations and civil movements or trendy hashtags.
It's maddening how obvious all of this is but sooooo many people figuratively & literally buy into it...
:/
That is exactly what Ben would say. If the system says it’s illegal and enforced against it, you can’t call it systemic at the government level even of it still exists, illegally. However, if many companies do it and aren’t caught, it’s systemic and the government should step in to investigate and fix it. Maybe bank audits should include an analysis of how people are selected for loans.
Exactly. Ben always says that.
About the names,
In the Netherlands this is factually correct.
Amonst lower class white Dutch people different names are popular than amongst upperclass white Dutch people.
So people áre judged based on their first name.
All whites
No racism.
Bias ?
Yes.
Racism?
No.
To prove or disprove Ben Shapiro and the research he suggested you should check if there is a difference in popular names amongst lower class black Americans and upperclass black Americans as well
And see if there is a difference in rejections amongst those 2 groups.
One traditionally black name and one traditionally white name like in Ben Shapiros example are easy to dismiss.
Idk brothers, I've grown up with too many black Washington's and Jefferson's that when I hear those name I think of my black brothers, fyi I'm afro latino!
Those names still came from Europeans. If black people en masse just started naming their kids "Neha" and "Tatsuro" they wouldn't just become "black names". First names are far stronger when talking about racial biases. Their last name might be same, the race of a "Tyler" is a lot harder to guess in America than a "Lashawna".
@@erboch7124 yeah but its not like people became Washington and Jefferson overnight...if Black people been using Tatsuro for a while Im sure there would be people that know...but i do agree with them/you as if you don't know the %'s you can easily assume those aren't Black last names...so im like in the middle with this
@@Red4350 The difference is Washington is originally a white name
it came from slavery days the british gave the slaves there names and blavk ppl have inherited it
Jefferson and Washington are 75% according to census an African-American surname.
this would make sense since Jefferson and Washington were slave owners and passed their surname onto them creating this discrepancy
@@qwertyupi1 that was literally what I was thinking 🤣
Washington was listed 138th when the Census Bureau published a list of the 1,000 most common American surnames from the 2000 survey, along with ethnic data.
Ninety percent of those Washingtons, numbering 146,520, were black. Only five percent, or 8,813, were white. Three percent were two or more races, 1 percent were Hispanic, and 1 percent were Asian or Pacific Islander.
Jefferson was the second-blackest name, at 75 percent African-American. There were only 16,070 Lincolns, and that number was only 14 percent black.
Okay but those are still white names that were passed on to african-americans through slavery. Steve Washington sounds just as white as Steve McGregor. The first name is really whats going to be the dealbreaker for a lot of people of color.
@@wolfstadt_ so Irish white person is less than an American white person? We are all equal.
In my mind, it's important to distinguish between systemic racism that is society wide versus concentrated in some institutions. Too often, people will describe systemic racism as if everyone is in on it when that is clearly not the case.
I agree with that. And even then, that systemic racism in that industry might really be in specific regions of a country rather than the whole country.
Because people are in on it. They just don't know it. It was a autonomous far before we were born. We were born into a bunch of shit that was already created for us to inherit. Just because you don't know that you get opportunities because you're white, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Objectivity is both systemic and social. One feeds into the other and vice versa. You don't eradicate racism because you enforce some act that tells people how a group of people should be treated. They just can't explicitly express it in your policies.
Kudos to guy on the right, he's a critical thinker. Guy on the left is a bit too emotionally invested and dismissive because of it, but kudos to him as well for still listening through and making his points as counter-arguments. That is what intellectual debate is. Overall, I appreciated watching this video.
I don't think you understand how disgusting some of ben Shapiro's reasoning sounds to some of us black people. It takes a lot of restraint not to show that level of disgust. Not everyone has it.
@@canderson718 everyone must free himself from the burden of emotion. It shatters logic.
@@mukakaka2817 live long and prosper...
@@canderson718 They sound that way because we are used to being given our information very softly and delicately. Most of us nowadays are scared to give information bluntly and in turn, rarely receive it that way. We are taught to be offended when people lay down facts for us that conflict with what we feel. Your comment didn't specify you were disgusted, but assuming you were, do you disagree with what Ben is saying in this video?
@@GVS86 I disagree with virtually everything that comes out of ben Shapiro's mouth. While just about every one of his view points are logical and his reasoning obviously follows a clear and rational thought process, they are not factually accurate. One can derive a logical conclusion from false and inaccurate premises.
Legitimately wondering. What is the difference or where is the line between “systemic” racism, and just some people within institutions doing racist things? At what point does it go from being a few racist people to a racist system? And where does “institutional” racism fit in?
Good question. There are certainly tons of laws/policies/agencies in place to prevent racism in just about every aspect of life. But are they being properly enforced/followed? And if not, is it feasible for someone to file a complaint? I’ve never been in a legal dispute but I hear it can be quite expensive. So is it worth it for a poor black person to try to sue an employer for discrimination? But at the same time you also have people who want to dismantle all of western civilization for it. But I think these conversations are what’s needed in order for us to keep moving in the right direction.
That’s the right question for sure. People are too quick to take a stance on either side when it’s very clear to me that all these points fall into grey areas. Nothing is simple when we’re talking about institutions with such a huge number of individuals.
Same reason I find conspiracy theories to be lazy thinking.. it’s super easy to just throw all these rich and powerful people into the same box and label it “evil,” just like it’s easy to throw a whole business or industry into that same box.
If the individual(s) routinely use their place in institutions and others know but don't call them out -collusion, then the institution becomes racist, by way of facilitating racist acts.
That's a great question ! I guess systemic racism is when the whole way the society you live in works against minorities through history being carried onto the present. Like laws overly targeting crimes committed by poor people who happen to be widely black as a result of history. A system is not just the people in the building, it's the whole bagage from yesterday and today combined and influencing it. I am terrible at explaining this does it make sense ?
@@NewBaldwin So the line mostly has to do with the culture of the institution (i.e. how people respond to and either enable or stop others doing racist things). Does that sound about right? If so, do you believe it's possible to fix those institutions without destroying them? I am open to discussing the topic, but right now, my personal opinion is that dismantling some institutions completely can be extremely damaging to all people, minorities included. I understand that any given institution might function very differently from another, so a one-size-fits-all solution doesn't make a ton of sense. However, I'm wondering if, knowing that I am against dismantling most institutions completely, what are some ways you think a person like me could help to make meaningful changes inside of an institution? I hope that all makes sense.
I liked this video, however Aba&Preach don’t use the same definition of “systematic racism” as Ben Shapiro. Its hard to argue about the validity of an idea if you can’t agree on a definition for the idea.
Thank you! Exactly what I was thinking.
why does ben get to define what that means?
There is an agreed upon definition by academics and Ben’s was not it. It doesn’t mean there is a specific law but simply customs and beliefs of people in power aswell
@ Wrong, systematic by definition has to be explicitly stated.
Alex Meggoe Of course it does, or else it’s not systematic
I appreciate you guys making this video I’m a conservative and I’m still learning about stuff and I appreciate when people bring their opinions but with facts. And explain their views in a way of not attacking anyone. I do disagree with you at 29:33 tho. There are people out there trying to blame it all on white people and every white person and trying to use BLM to be racist toward white people. You guys did a great video explaining your side and your views and bringing things into perspective that I never thought of and really opened my mind.
BLM is not about hating on white people . BLM is more about to raise awareness about police brutality. There are white people in the BLM .
I don't disagree completely. When he speaking of the systematic racism. He's referring to written law vs private and commerical businesses or institution outside of written law. I can acknowledge that the problem still exists but in written law it doesn't and is illegal. It still exists outside the government.
that means that his defintion is false.
@ it's not his definition. That's the definition according to progressives. It's being used in that manner all over the country. That's how it was explained to me at college.
@ I assume you mean Ben. If we are talking about Ben. Then to say a country is systematically racist when its government expressly forbids racist policies is fundamentally flawed. The Government has laided the ground work to represent the country as elected leader see fit. The government institutions aren't systematically racist. However the Commercial Institutions public and private may retain or enact racist policies. Redlining was an excellent example of this. Outlawed MANY years ago. Banks still practiced it. The US government made it illegal. So racist policies in business not government.
@ That's the problem, it's an umbrella term that people use to explain disparity in any institution. That's the point that Ben is trying to make.
Question: If the practise is illegal, but still hapening individually, (illegaly) (redlining) then is this still systemic racism or is it not just individual buinesses and individuals being racist? Murder is illegal, yet people still commit murder, that doesn't mean that the system encourages it.
Yes I believe that it is the individual (person) or the individual (company) that is racist. Its unfair to paint the everyone in the country or all of the companies as systemically racist, as if they are all in cahoots together
@@jasonwebb41 i dont think anyone is doing that. that's definitely not their point in this video.
@@blondem0n I'm not talking about them. I'm saying that if someone is discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity, then its the fault of an individual or organisation, not society as a whole.
most cultures agreed murder was bad around 2100 to 2050 BC(when the first laws about it were written). your analogy is a very wide analogy to make, and doesnt line up too well but i get the idea you were trying to convey.
question: were there ever laws in the US that supported murder? encouraged it? With racist loan practices, it was literally legal in court. The system itself was built to be a certain way and although the laws have recently tried to change this, it has not happened on a meaningful scale given the time frame. nearly 50 years after the initial laws were adjusted, there is still an issue.
a big thing i encounter with a lot of these conversations is white people feeling like they should feel guilty so they naturally want to hope these things arent as bad as it is. White people today dont need to feel guilty. they touch on this topic really well. we (as white people) need to simply listen to, and try to understand the experiences of people who have different skin color to our own! the key for me is not to ignore color, but understand how we can work towards a better future. America is strongest when all of its people are united and heard.
@@blondem0n it would be a wide analogy to make if I was talking about 4000 years ago, but not in modern day America. Has there been discrimination against black people in America systematically in the past? Of course. But the same cannot be said today, it would be foolish to think so. There still is and always be some level of unfairness towards non-whites, and so yes it is a good idea to listen to their concerns. But we cannot pretend that there is widespread systematic discrimination, thats nonsensical
To be fair, he wasn't really trying to "debunk" the entirety of systemic racism. To me he was just trying to scale back on what he perceives as an exarcebation of a problem and its real impact.
Agreed
André Paulino He was mainly debunking that video aswell
Seemed to me like he just used an engaging title that had nothing to do with his actual video. It's called marketing.
Yeah. He said that in the beginning but I think they forget that point.
@@JEMmusic-sn9qm so he's lying to get clicks. Cool, got it. Never clicking on another Shapiro video. Thanks
These guys saved me from going down the Ben Shapiro stan hole. I used to be one of those people that thought Ben was an intellectual Titan and could never be bested in debate. And while I still do think the guy is bright. I'm glad that by watching a video of calm rational people debunk his arguments and give credit made me realise that not everyone who disagrees with him is a lunatic. Most of the people I saw disagree with Ben were emotional college kids who would use insults rather than arguments. Seeing that someone you disagree with is just like you gives a lot of perspective.
Closely read the original title; He’s not debunking systemic racism.
He’s debunking the video he’s reviewing.
I’m pretty sure he’s said in multiple videos systemic racism doesn’t exist but at one time did
Yeah, Ben does that: uses charged words like TRIGGER or DESTROY or DEBUNK to draw interest. If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt I would say he’s using them ironically, hence the ALL CAPS. But i do think it’s not the best thing.
Mcksteezy for that to work I think he has to mean that it’s no longer legal. Because he does acknowledge that it does exist but in those cases the law doesn’t allow it. Which I think ties to trying to assert that “America is not fundamentally evil”, which systemic racism would make harder to assert.... maybe. Ben has an idea of what he’s fighting somewhere, but he has trouble expressing exactly what it is... “anti-conservativism” is probably what it is...
A system is just a mechanism or a machine it has parts that move together to hopefully generate a desired outcome. In this case the outcome is a fair and balanced society. You put x into the system and get y back.
Now if there was racism in the system there must be a part of the process that facilitates it. If person W gets y after putting in x and person B gets y-1 that would be a problem. That being said I have yet to see anyone point to a portion of the system that is causing this effect. If it was an identifiable problem it would have removed by now.
In reality Person A is putting in X+1 and getting y+1 Person W is putting in x and getting y and Person B is putting in X-1 and getting y-1. If the system is working like this there is no problem. Yes Person B may be jealous of Person A and W but that doesn't mean it's societies fault.
K but he's still wrong doe
I found this very interesting, I listen to Ben shapiro and many other people who debate. I'm a lover of the Joe Rogan Experience due to this.
I don't agree with everything Ben says but I do find myself agreeing with him on some of the points and opinions he presents. However many of the arguments he made in this in don't agree with. I feel like he has omitted data as its counter-productive to his argument. Hence why I listen to more than one person
@Matthew Forslund WRONG. There is NO DOUBT that the discrimination of the PAST was DUE TO RACE NOT "CLASS", Ben is trying to whitesplain how that SAME DISCRIMINATION is somehow NOW based on class which is what one supposedly thinks of when one hears "LAQUISHA" rather than she's a black woman. THAT IS BULLSHIT.
You know there's a great debunking of right-wing talking points about why blacks are overrepresented in police brutality and it also gives a comprehensive analysis of the solutions to police brutality: ruclips.net/video/mUIT_tcpzmQ/видео.html
ben shapiro is known to exclude data he's associated with PragerU
@Dee Yvthaí take your sarcastic comment elsewhere, I don't need kids like you giving me notifications.
Try to educate YOURSELF rather than strictly listen to others comment on things.
I think Ben's point is that there is no law against black people
But he acknowledges that personal racism will impact different races when people with power are racist
So he didn’t debunk systematic racism.
@@kenudice9841 Can it then be systematic racism if it is illegal?
@@sethgyan so are you saying things are illegal still don't happen even tho it's illegal especially here in America???
@@frostywarrior4649 Dude I'm saying is there a difference between racism done by people in a free society Vs "systematic racism" which suggest a problem that is promoted or condoned by the American structure - legally and Policywise.
@Seth Gyan It would still be systemic racism. My reason is based on the acts there were condone during the Jim Crow era. African Americans were greatly discouraged from participating in voting, moving into certain neighborhoods, running for government positions, and filing police reports against certain white citizens in America. This was enforced with lynching, burning crosses on front lawns, and family members going missing and never returning home. All of these acts were considered illegal, but condone due to a lacking of enforcement from the state or federal government.
Comment section is very calm and educated from both sides. Nice to see. 🙂✌🏾
Looked up the "Black" last names: Ben was actually right - Names like "Washington", "Johnson", "Smith" are disproportionately likely to belong to Black people. On the "Black names" (eg Laquisha), I doubt such people would want to hire "Cletus LeBeau" either, since he probably comes from some backwoods trailer park. Lots of factors that play into this stuff I think. I think class discrimination likely is real in that sense.
Most of it is class discrimination masqueradingas racism so race hustlers can get theirs. If you actually look at the study, it finds that black employers are just as unlikely to hire people with "ghetto" names as white employers.
@@MrGgabber ghetto names? What's a ghetto name?
@@og_4286
tyrone
It sounds extremely racist that the narrator assumes that a black person not only must be poor, but must be named Jamal.
@@dogsdreamtoo8427
jamal seems to be an extremely common name among blacks in usa. like tyrone.
usa is a weird country.
here blacks are not a different culture. nowhere else i've gone are blacks a different culture.
usa seems to be the one place where people havent fully integrated.
here the only difference between blacks and everyone else is the amount of melanin in the skin. the name distributions and las names distributions are normalized among the whole population.
I think "Debunking" was for the sake for an attractive title.
My interpret of the video's message is "Racism isn't the sole contributor to inequality and if we want to fix the problem, all variables require our attention"
Personally I believe the one of the main things holding the lower class back is lack of motivation to take risks. A lot of us default to thinking that we're bound to fail so we justify not facing our fears of potential failure.
That's a personal thing. Motivation is great until higher ups stop your progress despite your potential.
Or not having those options
@@erboch7124 exactly people don't get opportunities just based on their skills most of the time
@Jennifer Boehm I wonder if thats why a lot of old black folks in the south voted for joe instead of bernie?
@Jennifer Boehm idk if it is depression unless you realize how good you have it. I think that people who had it really bad in other countries and they move to a better county they are more appreciative of the new country they are in. People should read books on WW2 and the holocaust and realize that all this can be much worse and that the human race is extremely durable and can adjust to the harshest of conditions. With the obesity rate and the number of people that have access to A.C., Cell Phone, and Electricity, we all have it really good, some might say we have it too good.
It’s obvious that preach truly dislikes Ben and even when he makes valid points he doesn’t wanna acknowledge them. I’m glad Aba was being more open minded about hearing the other side (the ones who don’t believe in systemic racism) out more. Systemic racism is a hard subject to study because of the enormous amount of variables that needs to be taken into account. With that being said anyone who said it doesn’t exists at all clearly didn’t do much research.
When it comes to denial of "systemic racism" among smart people like Ben Shapiro, Scott Adams (I'm not talking about your typical right wing NPC who just repeats typical talking points of his group), I'm almost certain it's about the definition of term, not lack of the research. The more I listen reasonable people talk about it, the more I'm starting to understand where they are coming from when they talk about existence of systemic racism. I still disagree that it's systemic racism tho, because I doesn't seem to me that it fits the definition of *systemic* racism, but rather racism.
Like one of the comments here suggested - maybe we should find a new term for this. People who use old, original definition will keep pushing back, because we don't like changing definitions to fit the narrative. But as a result it seems to me that most of less critically thinking people deny existence of those illegal racist practices together with rejection of the new definition and that's also not good.
Preach isn’t very intelligent
Jarrod Adkins agreed
Jarrod Adkins Cap, preach is just too emotional
Uno The One no! He’s just not intellectually capable of expressing himself properly. It’s why a character like Aba runs most of the actual intellectual talking points in every video. While preach just screams and sings and spaz.
Ben was never saying not to acknowledge systemic racism such as slavery and Jim Crow. The reason he isn't is because that's basically all people do. They don't just acknowledge that these things happened, they spend their entire life in the past and NOT looking at what policies must be changed today.
Ben is essentially calling for shifting the perspective now, so as to not spend one's whole lifetime acting like a victim.
I agree.
You guys should go on his special. I would love to see a head-to-head discussion from both sides.
And what's that going to achieve?
I think Aba would and would be good in it. Preach however, would spend most of the discussion pulling faces and shaking his head before loudly storming out halfway.
T. Yahaya entertain me
Just Aba then... unless Preach goes to get his feelings destroy by facts. He isnt ready for that level of intellectual discussion. This video was so eye opening. Aba got many kudos and I had to take so many from Preach.
@@PochoNieves Preach made very good points. Ben was not mentioning the full data and taking everything into account, to conveniently make his point. Aba and Preach bring different things to the table.
Preach’s face the whole time..... he just looked disgusted.
Like... I can't believe I am even giving this the time of day.
Yeah, really telling. He had this face from the very beginning, even before he heard Ben's arguments. Shows you that he already had his mind made up before watching the video. That's why I appreciate Aba (even tho he missed Ben's points), he's more open minded and critically thinking.
branislav667 dude, they don’t like the guy, and Ben is a joke.
@@bs667 Preach agreed with some of Ben's points as well so he was definitely listening. I think his main issue was that Ben's argument was mainly just saying there's other factors. So it's like this video is all about systemic racism as a concept. The video creator didn't say everything is because of systemic racism. But Ben kept trying to refute that point. The look wasn't disgust, it was more so exhaustion in my opinion. I was getting a little exhausted with that same argument being used throughout the video as well. There's other factors, there's other factors. It's like, yes yes yes we know. That's not the point, but anyway I digress
@@bs667 Maybe he's already thought about it and y'all need to catch up. Most black people have heard these weak arguments trying to rationalize systemic racism. It's very easy (sometimes) to predict exactly what they're going to say about it. He didn't say how mass incarceration, government loans, gov giving Black banks money for loans but not to grow interest. Black people generally fall for democratic policy, just as whites fall for republican beliefs. Blacks who are politically educated understand that the dems are the lesser of the two evils.
While I disagree with many of the points being racially motivated as opposed to being economically motivated, I respect anyone willing to have these conversations in a calm and rational format.
I'm more on the economic side personally, that being I'm with you that I'm glad that civil conversations can sometimes still occur in this world of ours. It's sad to think how little you see it happen anymore though.
Tall Allen you’re probably hearing that shit about Chicago when defending a drug dealing thug that was killed by police. White people typically assume that when a white person is shot by police, they deserve it. We don’t hood riots. We don’t start multi million dollar go fund mes for some meth head that decided to fight a cop. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone reference Chicago and black on black crime is in opposition to the false narrative that police departments are inherently racist
Tall Allen how about you go take a ride along in the inner city and see what the cops are dealing with
Really? How convenient your view is, when you start looking at this from 1968. Now would you please explain what the economic dynamics that existed before 1968 and also before the civil war? Do you know each group came out of the Civil War with? Maybe that will open your eyes to the purpose of redlining as an intent rather than pragmatism. How about the GI Bill? Economic too? You want to start at 1960s while ignoring the history since 1619. Again, how convenient.
The thing with last names is, in the past when slaves were finally released they needed a last name and many had lost their own heritage to be able to take a name that culturally represented where they came from so often times they took the last name of their last "owner" which were white men... so over the years those last names are passed down and used, to this day, by families of both ends of the beautiful flesh toned spectrum. It's almost impossible to use those last names to identify people's skin color. 🤔 wonder why Ben wouldn't touch on that factoid...
he omits certain aspects of his argument hoping we don't notice and agree wit him
Washington is 90% black and Jefferson 75% black so he is right. The most common black surname (Williams) is only 46% black people
Yea my black best friend name is kisean and his last name is Benson💀
Well, not really. I may be mistaken but from what I understand the fact they are used by the black community doesn't mean they are "historically black". For example, most chinese people who often deal with westerners will have given themselves a western name. I literally had a dinner last week with a chinese student who has been studying here in Spain for years and he introduced himself with a spanish name he had given to himself, same as when I lived in China they encouraged us to give ourselves a chinese name to use and even our college diplomas for the course had both our western and chinese name.
So, I'd say Washington and Jefferson were either surnames the black community gave themselves to fit in better or they were given by slave owners because they couldn't bother to learn their actual surnames. Essentially, even if the black community has been using it for 300 years in the US it wasn't because it was "historically black", quite the opposite.
To be clear, I agree with points made and disagree with others but I think Ben didn't account for all the facts when making that point.
Where did u pull out those statistics? Your butt?
Yuh ou cant expect people to make valid points when they didn't research a thing. All they are good at is reacting to someone who did the work.
NJ!VAH GENE No it might seem hard for someone with your intellect to comprehend but I actually just searched ‘most common black surnames’ and went to namecencus.com.
a few years after me and my sister were born my father was determined to leave the Bronx so that we could have a chance at a better life. he had no college education and it took him about 10yrs to get a higher paying job outside of NY and then had to leave us to live on his own in another state to build enough savings to get us out.
we moved to Virginia and lived in a neighborhood with better schooling than we had on NYC.
my parents tried to get us into a more middle class neighborhood but we're turned down multiple times because the areas didn't want people without degrees living there.
no joke. the realtor told them that one of the places had a job/education qualifications to live there. so because my parents never went to college we were stuck in a lower class neighborhood.
we got out of the ghetto but still couldn't reach the mountain top.
they are still there today because my dad lost his good job because the company moved to California and we couldn't afford California living. they never recovered from that. now it's up to me and my sister to do better. so far...meh.
Exactly, it's not about race, it's about income, degree, qualifications, etc.
Sorry to hear about the fact that despite your father trying, it still didn't work out the way he wanted it to. But it looks like you are aware that everything is in your hands and system is not out to get you specifically, I'm sure you will slowly move forward :)
@@kalash_nikov lol
@@kalash_nikov The issue is race is deeply embedded within lack of income, degree, qualifications, etc. Intersectionality makes it difficult to separate the two.
@@Galen223adept 100%
@@Galen223adept And then everything changed when the Welfare Act was instantiated...
oH wAiT a MiNuTe!
As a black person ik that many black people give thier children "white names" because it might give them a better chance at getting a job or being talked about in a good way . My aunt has two boys, one name is James and other is Shawntrell. Shawntrell is WAYYYYY smarter than James (he was valedictorian in highschool, always made the Dean's list, got a perfect score on the SAT and ACT) but gets overlooked. When my aunt talks about her smart sons everbody assumes she's talking about james until she says she's talking about shawntrell and everbody has a shocked look on their face......Its shouldn't be like that, someone name shouldn't control their whole life
Agree. But between the two, who’s the older and younger brother?
I’m from a family of 5 kids. Everyone of my extended family members assumed the eldest son to be the smartest, but my younger brother and I are the smartest of the 5.
Actually this practice is not "native" to black people. This happens in Europe all the time depending on what country immigrants have moved from (and they are all white). Of course this is less of an issue these days with European Union as people are free to move between states but it still happens. It even happens a lot with European immgrants to the Americas (North and South).
Matthew Forslund Both. My younger brother and I both got academic and job training that far exceeds my other 3 siblings’. Granted, we’re all “smart” in our own ways.
Idk, dude. I hate to make assumptions, but it seems to me that you’re pretty butthurt over something. Trying to take it out on RUclips comments isn’t helping much.
Tell that to every Latino... even if we get named John instead of Juan... Rivera, Garcia, Martinez still the last names, LOL!!!!
Nothing ever stopped me specially my name... my merit is what matters but maybe your cousin should just say his name is Shawn...
Try being a “junior”
Good video, noticing that Ben likes to expand on simple points until the topic gets so convoluted you almost get the impression everything is because of something that is no one's fault and it's too complicated to bring up when really most types of racism are simple and easy to pass on through dogma generation to generation. It's a look, it's a private thought that manifests itself and makes you behave differently around different people, it's as simple as having a batch of videos curated for you based on your interest that makes you go "oh so that's what this person and his or her community is like". You may be racist but that doesn't make you a malicious person, it does mean however that you are willing to judge another human being before you have enough information on the individual to make any sound points which we should all hold ourselves accountable for.