Bigger Isn’t Always Better: A1E1 Independent | Tank Chats Reloaded
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- A bigger tank is a better tank, right? Wrong.
Meet the Interwar Vickers A1E1 Independent: a failed prototype, a prototype that proved bigger isn’t always better.
Impractical and expensive, it was never accepted into service - but it is said to have inspired equally cumbersome designs including the German Neubaufahrzeug and the Soviet T-35.
Join David Willey, The Tank Museum Curator, as he examines one of the more unusual vehicles in the collection - and discover how it became a focus for political espionage in the early 1930’s.
00:00 | Introduction
02:56 | Tank Design & Vickers
03:28 | Heavy Tank Requirements
05:38 | Initial Blueprints & Prototypes
11:08 | Test-bed Vehicle
14:50 | Myths, Issues and Life after Trials
19:25 | Does it lead to anything?
This video features archive footage courtesy of British Pathé.
#tankmuseum #davidwilley #Interwar #heavytanks
Met David Willey at tank fest last year as he was wandering the museum grounds. Got a picture with him and he offered to take a picture of me and my partner so we could have one of just the two of us together.
He asked my partner if she was at tank fest under duress 😂
Lovely guy, all round class act.
You should have replied that she'd forced you to be there. 😊
,,XD funny stuff bro.
@@ernestcline2868 XD
Vickers was using the experience of the 1914-1918 western front, which probably seemed like the right way to go, she is truly a land ship .
It was the wrong way,but Vickers didn't have a crystal ball,so I do have sympathy for them
@@stevenbreach2561we know with hindsight it was the wrong way, but yeah, they didn't know... so by contrast at the time, it would have been the correct direction to take things.
Agreed, the design-brief was entirely predicated on a return of trench-warfare. Having this astride an enemy trench, with all 5 turrets abolishing the defending troops, would have been a breath-taking vehicle, literally and figuratively. It was the perfect tank for 1918.
@@Fidd88-mc4sz Frankly, if you think about it. A trench and an anti tank ditch have a lot of overlap...
So I will make the galaxy brained argument that it was NOT that the tank that was to blame.
It was the massive bell-end that forgot to consider the trench.
I mean the tank made sense if we presume 10ft deep trenches with reinforcements were dug...prior to the war...but the notion that such a geographic feature can just...manifest itself in a day or two when an acute need for them arise?
That never made any sense no matter the time period, and it goes to demonstrate a tendency for people working indoors tending to slowly become detatched from reality, as anyone working manual labour outside on a daily basis, know what they can realistically accomplish, but ask the lads working on the A1E1 about field work?
Considering their socio economic backgrounds and life conditions, the issue is glaringly obvious, but it is impolite to point it out, in "Proper society", thus, reality itself was underestimated.
Tank´s good though! Bit niché, but even then, stuff it into a place like Libya during their civil war 10 years ago, and it would be among the most advanced vehicles around!
In a parade it must have looked impressive
In 1982, I applied to Bovington for an apprenticeship, they were interviewing 50 people at a time, and we had to sit a test. I heard that about 450 people went for 6 jobs? I wish that I had been good enough to get that apprenticeship. I have always loved tanks, and that would have been my dream job.
This tank has a certain steampunk quality to it with its surprisingly sleek design despite 5 turrets sprinkled on top of it - modern thinking yet outdated right out of the gate. 😊
I concur, Your Excellency.
looks like allota JRPG's piggie back on this design for "insert evil empire tank"
‘Modern thinking’? The Challenger, (modern) is nothing like that 🤷♂️.
I like how in that B&W picture they posed that tank right next to the tiny, tiny vickers tank.
Its Always A Good Day If The Tank Museum Uploads
Yeah it is , TM creates nothing but top notch content .
Best thing to come out of England
Hear hear!
Haha agreed 💯
Thanks! 🙏
The coolness of a rank is in linear proportion to the amount of turrets. The ideal tank would be a full size land battleship on tracks. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The designers of tanks for Warhammer 40K clearly agree with you
Your comedic post is greatly appreciated. 😄
Counterargument: Strv 103
@@quentinking4351 doorstop wedge with baller tracked suspension and and gun
H G Wells wrote "The Land Ironclads": he was certainly with you on that.
I adore these goofy multi turret tanks fron the interwar.
Yes.. T-35 is my favorite. The Tsar contraption is also one of my favorites
They were designed for trench warfare.
They needed to be long to get across wide trenches. Once straddling a trench, the multiple turrets allow the crew to shoot down both sides of the tank down the trench lines.
Imagine crewing one of those sub-turrets in battle.
No thanks!
My favourite is the Bob Semple tank that is made of corrugated steel. It looks like a farm building on tracks with guns sticking out all over.
@@robinbrowne5419 Yeah that’s a great one too. A tool shed on tracks
David is so eloquent in his history very refreshing every time he does a Tank Chat.
The Chap is a True Scholar & a Gentleman
David standing next to it adding scale reminded me that the A1E1 was the same length as the Centurion but a little lower and considerably narrower.
Always been fascinated by this tank, one of my favourites at Bovington.
Same here. I always make a bee line for it when I visit Bovington.
"Fun" fact: Asbestos was revealed as a health hazard in a scientific survey published as early as the mid-1910s. It was of course buried, as there were money to be made. Still today, Canada export asbestos to countries where it's not yet banned for use, such as India.
On a personal note, my dad was born November 3, 1918. Working since 1939 in a railway workshop for the Swedish Railways (SJ), him and all his colleagues were exposed when the rolling stock was insulated with the stuff. He found out he had asbestosis during a checkup in the mid 1970s. They were not supposed to know, but a new doctor happened to mention it. Dad died in 1983, less than a year before he was to turn 65. It wasn't the asbestosis that killed him, but a heart condition, altough it probably didn't "help". That CRAP should've been outlawed before he was born, the facts were already there.
Modern fiberglass isn't much better, once its in the body it never leaves. Asbestos is a fantastic inulsulator though.
I'm sorry for your loss. if I could end death I would not hesitate for each and every life is so special and full of blessed magic that a world without is not a world at all.
"Bring us along for a broadside!"😂
"Drive me closer, I want to Hit them with my sword!"
David - idea for a video, how about an exploration of the background equipment used at The Tank Museum to manage heavy items? What are the tractors and cranes and so on that are real working vehicles on-site ? Do you use any Military Recovery Vehicles to do Real Work? How much is contracted out to commercial companies ?
They've shows afew. They generally use later-produced recovery tanks and military cargo cranes.
A thing that big should have a Home theater, a steward or hostess and a hot tub.
It's like the grandfather to the TOG
Hear hear! 🍻
lol yes
The Old Gang.@@SuperShermanTanker
@@SuperShermanTanker Yes their is a family resemblance there for sure!
Always good to see something from the tank museum. My border collie lost interest when she saw Finn wasn't in it, though.
For perspective, £27k in 1923 equates to around £2M today. Yes, that is a lot for one engine! On the other hand, the overall cost of the A1E1 is equivalent to around £12M today. That's actually not that bad for a decade-long technology demonstrator programme.
And probably cheaper than a Challenger (II?) today.
Fantastic that you've kept it in such good shape.
I much prefer this type of review compared to the earlier version which was "It's british, of course it's cr*p". This explains *why* it was designed, built and its fate.
The master of Tank Chats is back!
earliest I've ever been to one of these tbh, really love your work guys and hope you continue to make all this great content for armor enthusiasts the world over!
Thank you for the feedback! 🙌
Yet another superb, detailed, fluent presentation from Mr Willey. The man is a legend!
I am a tank nerd so I love this
Sherman!!
Get it? Sure man! 😊
@@samholdsworth420 worth it lol pretty funny
What do you think about the experimental tank USA been working on That uses a laser beam to direct lightning at targets? I'm not kidding the concept relies on the discovery that a certain type of laser provides less resistance than air so a lightning bolt would follow a laser beam to a target. Even though it sounds cool it's not a very effective strategic weapon since you could only use it during heavy storms and select lands.
Most likely to be used as a terror weapon against our own citizens when MW seize power.
"One of us! One of us!" 😄
@@rodrigosilvero5749 I think it is effective but not cool looking:(
There is a value in knowing what won't work.
David Willey is a genius, no more no less.Thank you Mr Willey.
Superb, well delivered, informative (and friendly) talk. Nice one David - one of the reasons I love this series from the Tank Museum.
Another really intelligent and nuanced video about tank history! Thank you David and team.
What a great in depth video regarding this obscure tank!
This is top quality content, I love this channel so much!
TY Mr. Willey. We saw how hard it is to turn a tank , with such long tracks, yet she's a beauty all the same. I recall a French tank with extra size, so that makes 4 nations involved in large tanks at the same general time .
Love the tank that's with David Willey, thanks
I love the post WW1 tank designs. Huge land ships with multiple turrets, a million machine guns, weird shapes and angles.
@thetankmuseum Speaking of multi-turreted design inspired by the Independent, there also was the japanese Type 95 Ro-Go. Which sadly doesn't exist anymore...
Thanks!
Thank you for your support! 👌
Another GREAT video. Thanks
Another excellent video cheers for ❤
I was happy to see some love for the Medium Mk. D.
In my own writing, I have deemed the A1E1 to be the first "cruiser" tank, given its specs, though of course the concept had not yet existed.
I had heard that the theft of the plans was the reason for both the NbFz and the T-35, the Germans cooperating with the Russians on tank design during this period, though I suppose they could have been inspired by newspaper photos. In the event, both were singularly unsuccessful in combat. Auxiliary MG turrets persisted in some British designs through the Crusader I.
The original design for the U.S. M6 Heavy Tank is best described as "a multi-turreted horror", the different turrets housing a menagerie of guns of different calibers. It was quickly revised.
Epic story as always, thank you!
I find it interesting that they came up with the idea of an anti aircraft gun. As later on the Germans came up with the idea of fitting a converted anti aircraft gun on tanks like the Tiger
That was an interesting and informative talk well communicated. Thank you
Hey tank-nuts! What do you think of the latest Tank Chat? Do you think the Independent was a good investment for future tank development?
If you meant that were the millions spent to find out "let's not go there" paid off with later design efforts? For others, yes.
It would be interesting to know how and why they decided to go for the TOG after deciding that this type of design should not be built? There was also an entire "family" of similar tanks designed but never built in Japan.
Excellent, thank you.
Good story, start to finish, well told.
For those who make fun of this "absurd design", WHO could have thought 10 years ago that a 500 dollar drone could become the deadliest anti-tank weapon? Nobody, that's who. Human ingenuity is boundless, but that doesn't make the previous generation designs stupid. Even if they do look kinda stupid now, like this one! :)
I mean it was literally a wwI tank design made post-war so it really was a step backwards of anything.
The British designed weapons in the post ww1 era to fight a second ww1. Between lack of funding, poor concepts and doctrine, and poor manufacturing, the British didn't produce the weapons necessary to give to their men to win.
Heavy tanks had already proven they had horrible shortcomings.
First, they push the current tech, mechanics, and alloys of the time for such a large machine that created an unreliable vehicle. The lack of power and size meant getting it stuck was easy, and pulling it out was hard. Heavy tanks are often a mantainence nightmare.
The classic tank design was already out. The British should have developed a decent medium tank that was well rounded and mechanically sound that was simple enough to mass produce.
They knew it wasn’t a good design it’s why they never did anything with it
It was a prototype and that’s about as far as it went
British armor was garbage. Russia didn’t have a tank in the first war and they end up with the best tank after getting pushed back to Moscow. The US mirrors the British in R&D but their results are superior at every revision. Britain deserves more shame than France. Only Italy has inferior mechanized units in the second war.
People knew drones would be effective decades ago...
Wonderful and a bit bizarre that this still exists. Great work, all.
He speaks so well, his videos are amazing
This is news to me. Excellent video.
Oh, wow! I caught this almost as soon as this video dropped. Huzzah!
Great video, thanks TM, thanks David! For all her rivets, she's quite the elegant lady for almost 100 years old 😊
Fascinating look at a monster!
Aloha; brilliant as ever! Mahalo
Awesome thanks
All those turrets probably formed a lethal shot-trap; bad idea!
Interesting!
Looks like the GOAT of WW1 tanks, the 'obvious' next step.
Good information
Love the look of this tank.
That's why I like the Britsh.I love their sense of humor!
Superb
Last scene: a mechanical monster from a horror movie...
Thank you for another interesting story! 👍
Bearing in mind what was wasted on the A38 Valiant the A1E1 was a bargain especially as it helped the Tank Corp focus on what it wanted in an AFV instead of what the War Office wanted and also with the use of the turntable turret helped move the idea of the rotating 360 degree turret into the consciousness of tank designers over hull mounted or sponson fitted guns.
Plus standing next to it you can almost forgive the issue of the L over W failure in it's design as it is very impressive in the metal.
Possibly, experimental designs are just as important if they show what doesn't work as they are in showing what does work.
🏆🎖️⭐🙏🤗💙
Thank you for sharing
Thank you Mr. Willey for another great tank chat, is there any new episodes of Curator at home coming in the future?
Grosstractor and Neubaufahrzeug: daddy?
Pz.IV and T-28: grandpa?
Reminds me of a predreadnought with all those turrests interfering with each others 😅
Very interesting, kinda reminds of the Soviet t-35 that was actually produced. Great job as usual, David 👍
I think the Soviets had inside guys in Britain
@@rdallas81More than a few. By the war they had a senior MI6 Officer, a BBC Home Service Producer, a diplomat and the curator of the Royal art gallery and that's just the ones we are aware of.
Invest in a couple of 3M™ Scott™ RAS (Respiratory Airline Supply) Asbestos airline breathing apparatus sets
"Positive pressure set that provides the highest levels of breathing protection. The RAS Asbestos apparatus is ideal for areas with high levels of contamination." Then you could explore the inside of this vehicle, without having to wait for the finance to strip the asbestos from it.
"Fritz, I know I'm tired, but is that a Tugboat going through the field?"
"No, Hanz, that's definitely a Tugboat going through the field."
This vehicle looks like something straight out of Warhammer.
Brilliant as usual. Can you do a reloaded on KV1.
So in short the conclusion of the independent was “We didn’t fail to make a tank we discovered a way not to make a tank.”
First, the bigger the tank the bigger the obstacle it can cross. Particularly length gives trench crossing ability.
Second, if the tank is big and the guns small, it makes sense to put several guns on the tank.
Third, it is easier to command one 5 turreted tank that 5 separate tanks; particularly given radios that are big, expensive and unreliable.
Fourth, if one can build an engine and transmission that can move a heavy tank, then building a tank that has heavy armour and/or a big gun is part way there.
You guys literally still make the best videos on the Internet if ever in human history…….
Thank you!
T-35, rules the multi-turret land battle ship world ! :D
Blyat tank is fine
About the only thing it ruled 😂
I do love it though, even got a model of it
@@Nerobyrne They were so close to building a land battleship !
That tanks badass, loving it !!!
Yes I was on armor…..
That's such a specific requirement set, I'd argue they're not even requirements rather specifications.
I'm surprised that nobody has put on a HAZMAT suit and respirator, and gone inside with a camera to mess around and show what the interior is like.
😂
multi turreted tanks approach persisted until late 1930s.
It strikes me just how alike the thoughts were to Navel doctrine , had the Tank had three turrets in line (and so larger caliber or multiple barrel) with separate machine gun positions. with a super firing main turret. Ah but i am dreaming! can you imagine trying to turn this monster! an auxiliary tug to change heading ! very good thank you
This is an informative and fascinating video about the Independent. I'm intrigued, though, by other tanks captured in photo stills in this chat. The photo of the Independant when it paraded past the press shows these small, seemingly one-man armoured vehicles with machine guns tailing it. What? I'm a neophite when it comes to tanks, but what the heck are those? They can't be Carden-Loyd carriers. And those German tanks with multiple turrets? And those Soviet tanks? The Tank Museum has a lot of Tank Chats in its future.
Mr. Willey looks to me like a proper professor should look like
A1E1 has Tha ViBE , driven primarily by Tha Look.
Interesting video, thank you.
I'm curious how sealed off the interior of the tank is. With newer things like the 360 cameras, could you lower one inside to get some better details about things like the turret basket? Obviously not something to be done trivially, but should be something that could be done safely.
He mentions danger of asbestos but someone could just wear a filter mask or pumped oxygen line safely to breath to explore it properly.
Old people running these museums don't like to be bothered or have change.
@@rodrigosilvero5749 That still leaves a person potentially getting asbestos fibers all over their clothing, and then contaminating other parts of the museum. Add to that, it's almost certainly illegal for them to open up and investigate an item/object once it's been declared contaminated. it's not as simple as how safe you feel during the process.
@@gagenater Its legal to open contaminated items but its not fast, easy or cheap to do it right.
@@rodrigosilvero5749is that the "old people"who are the experts,and not some Muppet mouthing off on RUclips?
@@gagenaterYou are right in pointing out that the danger from asbestos is not only to a worker inside the tank.
Otherwise someone with not much to do and very well on in years could work inside and remove the asbestos with bare hands. It would definitely affect his lungs, but not for a while.
So if some 80 years old with an interest in the subject were to drop in and parcel up the asbestos he would be able to tell everyone else about it and still finish his life as a centenarian.
But I don't feel inclined to wait a few years and then render the interior fit for occupation.
Love it. T-35 is my favorite tank of all time
Why
It’s terrible
@@Farquad76.547 No kidding, I never said it was a good tank. 5 turrets , ten man crew… it was so weird.. I love it
@@Farquad76.547 only thing cooler was the Tsar tank.
Thx
Craziest thing to me is always how much more expensive things are now. 40k? Hah if I could take my money back in time, I could fund a new tank design. Crazy.
One turret looks great, let's add some more!😅
great story on a broken link to the main tanks
Very late at night for this upload, are you ok tank museum PR guy?
my Favorate interwar tank
That tank was designed for trench warfare. The length is for getting across wide trenches. The multiple turrets is for shooting down both sides of a trench line when it straddles the trench.
This channel is a steampunk dream
So interesting. Just goes to show, yet again, that the Germans were well ahead of the rest, in tank design. Peace and goodwill
For reality rather than fanboy fantasy, look up LeichtTraktor, GrossTraktor & Neubaufahrzeug.
I cant imagine the sound when get hit from tank shell while in enclosed in those
Wait a minute. Why did they have to specify the track be in a strait line from the idler wheel to the sprocket? How else would you have a track?
My thought as well. Obviously some one had gone down the wrong track at some time.
it can start to curve up at some point before the sprocket or idler on either end - in fact most modern tanks have at least one of these items elevated.
They didnt want it to be like the Mk4 with the rhomboid shape
0:46
横の子犬みたいな戦車が気になる!!欲しい笑
Great spy story at the end!
Yes
So a tank built to War Office specification!
Now what could go wrong?