People need to accept Mysterio is dead. We all loved him, Jake Gyllenhaal was excellent and probably the best part of the movie, but he absolutely died. Everyone is in denial since he was so good but to me he died for real. Of course I would love to see him again by any means, but for now he's a goner.
I agree, I think he's gone. Plus, even if he did live, Damage Control took all the drones, so he would have no ability to create the illusions. So I think we just need to be happy with his fantastic appearance in FFH and accept we won't see him again. Well said!
@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu True. Since Damage Control now has the drones, I guess they could use them to create a new Mysterio. But I also wonder if it was a one trick act, since people know it was done with the drones last time. Fool me once...
For cases like Ikaris and Namor I always see it from the main characters perspectiva, because in a conflict you will always have 2 sides, in the past the villains usually were just fully evil so you could tell they were, nowadays villains aren't that simple they fall more in a gray área instead of black and white. They can have noble ideals or goals but that doesn't mean they aren't antagonizing other people or being villains to others. Ikaris, you could say is the villain of humanity in Eternals cause he was going to let humanity (and all life in Earth) go extinct because he believed that the Celestial's way was correct, but that goes against the goal of the Eternals who tried to protect humans, Ikaris even killed his brothers just to accomplish his goal/Arishem's goal, so to me he is 100% villain in that movie even if he wasn't evil. Namor is a similar case, he is the hero of Talokan but was the enemy and a villain to Wakanda (the protagonist), he throw blame on Wakanda for their problems, and tried to manipulate Wakanda into an alliance for self preservation, again for his people but without caring about the other sides.
Excellent points. Both of those examples were the hardest to call "villain" in the simple sense. They were way more layered and how you viewed them was based on whose side you were taking. If you side with humanity, Ikaris is the villain. If you side with the Celestials, he was the hero. Wild stuff!
I know every bit of this already yet I still sit here and watch the whole video. Its just so fun to think and talk about it all no matter how many times I have before.
IKR? I love just looking at how villains have flowed between the movies and where everyone is at at the end of Phase 4 from a status standpoint. It's just amazing to see how the MCU has grown and evolved. Thanks so much for watching!
Really appreciate the positive feedback. As for keeping everything straight...my mind is a vast wasteland of Marvel trivia as I love the MCU so much. But I also check out the cinematic universe wiki when I can't remember a fact. That site is to die for: marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_Wiki. Thanks for watching the vid!
I really hope disney realizes how much they could do with justin hammer still! Even after tony’s passing, with him adding the extra weapons to make war machine for rhodey i think theres enough there to make a War Machine show/movie with him as the villain!
The first Stage of Villainy video is how I discovered your channel lol! I really hope we see more Zemo, Justin Hammer, and especially more A.I.M and potentially MODOK. A.I.M have always been my Avengers villains, kinda sad how they wasted them in IM3.
Very cool that you found the channel thru the video. I think you will enjoy this one as well. If nothing else, jump to the analysis at the end as I have done a much better job of breaking down the villains. And I totally agree we need more Zemo, Hammer and A.I.M. Hoping we them back in Phase 5 and 6. Thanks for sticking with the channel. Really appreciate it!
Yes!! Been waiting for this one. Great video, the new categories like the "On Probation" and Red Box really help. It's crazy to me that there have been a total of 166 villains in the MCU. That's insane!
So insane! My goodness that's alot of villains. Pretty cool to see them all laid out by status in the end. Thanks for watching and for the feedback. Had alot of fun making this one!
Thanks! I agree, I like getting an overview of where everything is at, both for the heroes and the villains as it really prepares me for enjoying Phase 5 and beyond. Throw in the open questions video I did today and you have all the info you need to close down Phase 4 and jump head-first into the future!
Thanks! Really appreciate the positive feedback. I agree, I get a little to specific, though and that probably limits my wider reach. But it's just the way my mind works. I find a topic and beat it to death, but try to do it in an interesting fashion. Thanks again for watching!
33:30 I think the same applies to Hela because we see the same thing happened before Surtur's sword seemingly hit her. There was a small green glow, maybe teleporting? But she draws her power from Asgard, so maybe she couldn't? Unless Asgard had to completely been destroyed for that to happen. Personally, I think Hela is alive somewhere.
I would love to have have Hela still around. She was incredible. I do fear that since Asgard was destroyed that she would be powerless anyway, but I'd be totally down with her having survived.
@@AbitofEverything4U that could explain why she could be under the radar? just mere speculations at this point, although personally I'd really love to see her again in some capacity if it were the intended case
You may as well have thrown William Ginter Riva into Iron Man as well if you're including him for Far From Home. Also, both Alioth and the Ribbon Creature are still alive. Of Alioth, He Who Remains says "a creature you both KNOW", using the present tense, and the last we see of the ribbon creature it lost a couple tentacles and was hanging on to avoid falling into America's portal but it was very much alive. And ah yes, the amazing primary villains that were Shocker 2.0, Tinkerer, and (possibly-maybe-future) Scorpion. Can't wait to see them back after how huge their roles were in Homecoming /s No but seriously, great video!
Good point about William being in IM 1. I wasn't sure whether to include him as he wasn't really villainous at that point...although he did help Stane to create the suit, so probably he should be listed there. On Alioth, I couldn't figure out what happened to him. Sylvie enchanted him and he dispersed and since he was a cloud based creature I assumed that killed him. But you could be right that HWR's statement implied he was alive. Maybe they resolve it in Loki S2. On the Ribbon Creature...yeah, great catch. I thought he had died, but you are right, we don't see him actually die before America Chavez takes off. As for Scorpion, he had a very small (but cool!) role in Homecoming, but I'm hoping he goes full Scorpion in the future as I've always loved that villain from the comics. And of course the Tinkerer can build the suit for him. As for Shocker 2.0, he was abit lame, but I'd still be down if he appeared with the Sinister Six in the future. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U For sure, I actually really hope they utilize Scorpion too, I was just making fun of the fact that they were listed as primary villains when clearly they aren't that yet
I think the implication in Loki was that, after the time heist, He Who Remained wiped out the existence and any trace of a variant. So yes, those 2012 variants, as well as the Red Skull variant, would no longer exist. And I think that anybody associated with Thunderbolts should be listed as gray, since we don't know the scope of what the group is doing. As far as we know, it could just be Ross trying to make them kill Bruce. As you say, Val has been very sketchy. It could go either way.
Excellent feedback. Yes, I wonder if it was the TVA that clipped all the time heist branches. Smart Hulk made it sound like returning the stones would clip the branch, but I was never too sure about that. Either way, I'm with you that the branches are gone. And yeah, the Thunderbolts definitely need to be gray for now. I'm very interested to see what their first mission ends up being. We'll learn alot at that point. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Not to mention, we saw a Chitauri in one of Collector's cages and another fix up Nebula in Infinity War... before they were also killed. Also, if Zemo isn't on the Thunderbolts' mission, at least make him a secret (to anyone except Val) informant/consultant that shows up multiple times in the movie.
Good point on the Chitauri. They pop up everywhere it seems. And yes x 1000 on Zemo being an informant/consultant for Val. We need that dude to make an appearance in the movie. Won't be the same w/o him! Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Lots of talk about Thunderbolts in this video of course... and it still pains me what kind of selection they've made with them. It almost feels like a Black Widow sequel, especially annoying that most know each other very well. I think my ideal team would've been one that resembled the Avengers more: U.S. Agent (cap), Yelena (black widow), Bullseye (hawkeye), Justin Hammer as Beetle (iron man), Abomination (hulk), Ghost, Songbird (thor?) and of course Zemo.
Yes, I agree, I wanted several other members on the team. I was really hoping for Hammer, Abomination and Zemo and Bullseye is also a fascinating choice. Hopefully Marvel didn't reveal the full team, but just some of the members. Either way, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
I think that with wandavision Wanda is in more of the probation category leaning towards villainy but that is just my opinion. Love your marvel videos by the way.
Cool video, but here are some points I think might be interesting. 1: Maybe the reason that Spider-Man got off so easily in Spider-Man No Way Home, was because they couldn't find the body of Mysterio. So he may be alive. 2: I feel as if Donny Blaze sort of classifies as a villain. 3: Did Alioth die? I thought he just disappeared. 4: While it's not technically confirmed, I believe that Doc Ock was sent back to his reality, he couldn't have stopped the arc reactor, and he would've died. 5: I'd put Loki on probation after Thor: The Dark World. 6: Would Wendy Spector count as a villain in Moon Knight? She certainly ruined Marc's life. 7: If Talos was a villain, how about Soren and Norex? They associate with Talos. 8: Dr. List appeared in Captain America TWS's post-credit scene, and Avengers: Age Of Ultron. 9: I'd put White Vision as fully reformed. He helped out the rest of the team. 10: I'd put Vulture as on probation. He didn't spill Spider-Man's identity to Mac Gargan. I'm not sure. Thanks for reading.
Great feedback! Here are some thoughts on your excellent comments: 1: What is a bummer about Mysterio is that even if he's alive, Damage Control now has his drones. Additionally, everyone knows about his secret to creating the illusions, so I suspect he couldn't fool people again. So even if he's alive, I suspect he wouldn't be effective. But I would still love it if he can come back somehow. 2: Interesting point on Donny Blaze. I could see him counting as a villain. 3: You raise a great point about Alioth. I assumed that since he was a smoke based creature that when he disappeared it meant he was dead. But I'm not so sure now. 4: Since Toby's Spider-Man knew about Doc Ock's fate, I wonder if he informed him of how he could be saved when he returned. Almost like you pause a video game, talk through the scenarios, and then unpause and try to get out of a bad situation. It was pretty bleak for him, but I have to assume there was a way for him to live or he wouldn't want to go back. 5: I thought about putting Loki on probation after Thor: The Dark World, but consider that he faked his death, put Odin in a spell, banished Odin to earth to live out life in a nursing home, let the 9 realms fall into disrepair, ultimately led to Odin deciding he no longer wanted to go on living...which then released Hela and which then resulted in Asgard being destroyed. All of this is due to Loki's desire to rule Asgard under false pretences. So while he didn't mean for any of that to happen, he still caused it all by selfishness. Thus, he seems still on the villainy side after T:TDW. 6: Very interesting point about Wendy Spector counting as a villain in Moon Knight. She did indeed ruin Marc's life. I fear that if I open up the villain list to people like her then any terrible family member might need to be included. I think Bruce Banner's dad was also abusive, Howard Stark could be considered an absentee father, etc. But I do agree Wendy was a bad, bad, bad person. It was hard to watch that, knowing children suffer from parents like that in real life. 7: I could see that if Talos is listed a villain, then Soren and Norex could be the same. Good call! 8: I like the idea of adding Dr. List. For the most part I didn't add henchmen, but if they had a name and a specific role, then I think they are worth mentioning. 9: As for White Vision, I don't remember him helping. I thought he fought the Hex Vision and then they stopped to discuss the Ship of Theseus and then Hex Vision restored his memories and he took off. So he seems on probation to me as he didn't do anything heroic. 10: I'm torn on Vulture. He didn't reveal Peter's secret, but he also owed Peter for saving his life. So I'm not sure that count's as heroic or just clearing the slate but then going back to evil when he gets a chance. Fantastic comments. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I truly appreciate it. Love the dialogue with MCU fans!
@@AbitofEverything4U Here are some more thoughts, and some responses to the old ones. 1: Yeah, you're right about White Vision. I rewatched it, and it he didn't do basically anything to help. 2: For Man-Bull, Porcupine, Aguilla, and Saracen, they weren't really villains. They did destroy She-Hulks car, but that was mostly by accident. All we saw of them, was them trying to reform themselves 3: I feel as if where Wendy Spector differs from the other parents, is that she actively torments her son, while Brain Banner was never really seen, and Howard Stark didn't exactly do too much wrong, as a father. 4: You're right about Vulture, too. The whole Morbius thing is too overcomplicated, but what if it were a variant Vulture. Maybe from some random What If universe. 5: What about Josh from She-Hulk. She at least assisted in the plan to get She-Hulk's blood. (I still haven't watched the finale, so feel free to call me out on this one). 6: The Tracksuit Mafia had it's leader destroyed, all allies either imprisoned, or "dead", and they all got thrusted into prison. I don't think they're making it out. 7: I think there should be a category for the evil organizations, like the Tracksuits, Flag-Smashers, and maybe the Black Order. Or Leap-Frog's assistants. 8: A category for the characters that may or may not be dead could work too. Like Kaecilius, Kingpin, Kazi, etc. They all might be dead, but they also might not. 9: If the Red Skull's curse was gone, and the Tesseract was destroyed, then he might be dead, stranded in space. Or maybe not dead, maybe just stuck. 10: Is Val a villain at all? Maybe she's acting under orders of the government. You don't need to change this, because we're not sure, but also, did Val set up Yelena with the info to destroy Hawkeye, or did Eleanor Bishop? That didn't really make sense. Thanks for responding.
@@lisamacfarlane646 Great comments! I'll throw out some more food for thought: 1: Yeah, White Vision was like "imma head out". Will be interesting to see where he is at mentally when we see him again. 2: For Man-Bull, Porcupine, Aguilla, and Saracen, I was torn with what to do with them. If nothing else, the fact that they were hanging with Blonsky when he was breaking probation (taking off the inhibitor and turning into Abomination), they destroyed Jen's car which honestly still seemed abit intentional to me to keep her there, they let Wrecker join the group instead of first turning him over to the police for what he did, and the fact that in the comics they were all villains, I finally decided that was enough to list them as villains that then reformed. But I agree, it is questionable if they should have been considered villains. 3: I guess I could call Wendy Spector a villain...it just opens the door to so many new interpretations of what a villain is. Sadly, she likely didn't think what she did was wrong, and back in the day when Marc was a kid, parents were allowed to do some pretty terrible things and it wasn't even considered illegal. My dad spanked me bare bottom with a belt, which would be considered an assault in today's day and age. And even in school, teachers and principals paddled kids left and right and trust me, both my brother and I know that it really hurt from getting our fair share of paddlings. Don't get me wrong, she was a terrible parent and abusive to Marc, but I suspect alot of parents were like her. I'll put her on the list to reconsider when I update the list down the road though. Perhaps she should count. 4: I'd be really happy if it turned out to be a variant Vulture that showed up in Morbius. Of course, they would have to explain why he appeared if it wasn't due to Dr. Strange's spell. 5: I would agree that Josh from She-Hulk should get added. Nice call! 6: I definitely agree that The Tracksuit Mafia is likely done for. We probably won't see them again. 7: I like the idea of a category for the evil organizations. That said, we really need to see the Masters of Evil, so I almost don't want to give Marvel credit for having a super villain group until they give us that villain team-up! 8: I did consider a category for the characters that may or may not be dead. I may do that for the next update. That said, everyone seems to have different opinions on so many characters. I've had people say Hela and Surtur are alive and that Wanda is dead, and so on. So I could create that category, but not everyone would agree on who goes there. Still though, not a bad idea. 9: I agree that if the Red Skull's curse was gone, then he might be stuck. That's why it would be so interesting to see what Cap did when he returned that stone and learned about the Red Skull being there. I wonder if he somehow told the Avengers about him so he was rescued. Or, maybe Red Skull was sucked into the soul realm after Infinity War and then when the stone was finally destroyed in Endgame's opening scene by Thanos, that freed him back to earth. May not be a way for him to come back, but then I never expected to see him again after CA: TFA, so I guess anything's possible. 10: Even if Val is working for the government, I still suspect she is a villain. Ross was definitely a villain even as Secretary of State. And while I don't suspect Val knew the full story with Hawkeye, the fact that she was working with Eleanor and/or Kingpin at all makes her at least be on probation. Again, great comments!
About the variant villains in Spider-Man No Way Home, you've correctly marked them as reformed, but I was wondering, is it worth considering the question of whether they died AFTER they got sent back to their original universes? After all, this question was central in the whole movie: the entire reason why Peter started looking for a cure is precisely because he didn't want to send them back to die. So did he succeed? Did they survive when they finally got sent back? Food for thought
So I think that's a great question. In my time travel video I discuss it somewhat, but you raise a good question of, practically speaking could they survive. So I think that in each case they were returned to a point where there was just enough time to change the course of their death. I do agree it is questionable whether that is actually feasibly possible that they could save themselves in time, so maybe it's worth a video that delves into that very subject. But my head canon has them each coming back with just enough to alter their fate. Would be a fun topic to tackle in the future!
Goblin, Lizard, and Sandman survived. Goblin was pulled from before he attacked May, Lizard was in the sewers, and Sandman was pulled from years after SM3. Ock could have survived if he found a way to use the ARC reactor to turn off the machine safely. And since Electro no longer has powers, he can't absorb all the electricity, which led originally led to his death
@@oliverqueen474 Yeah, his fate may be the toughest to avoid. I guess it's based upon where he was when he was transported to 616. If he was indeed in the grid at the time, perhaps he was returned in human form standing next to the electrical grid instead. Would be interesting if we found out down the road what actually happened to each of them.
I think it's safe to say Sharon Carter is likely on probation too especially after she was completely okay with helping the Flag Smashers. I think when next she shows up again, it won't be until Thunderbolts where she potentially joins the team in an effort to redeem herself.
Interesting...I kept her as a villain as I felt she was still being evil. I could call her on probation, but I think she has to earn it by stopping being evil first. What do you think?
another important distinction to add for the next one is whether or not the villain is incarcerated. they're a lot less likely to appear anytime soon if they're in prison.
Ah, that's an interesting thought. That said, it's so hard to tell what a prison sentence in the MCU is. If you think about it, we've really only seen a few folks actually in jail: Justin Hammer, Trevor, Vulture, Abomination, Kingpin and Punisher come to mind. The Clandestine were almost in Supermaxx but broke out like it was easy as can be. And Cap broke everyone out of the Raft w/o much trouble as well. So it could at least be an educated guess, but I suspect it may be hard to determine who is still in jail. But all that said, its a really cool idea!
@@AbitofEverything4U that's a good point, and really a lot of villains aren't really on the level of prison. the US government probably isn't going to lock up thanos after all. though i would argue that saying kaecilius was imprisoned fits better than saying he's dead
Yeah, that's definitely interesting. It could have been an burst of energy caused by Hela's death, I guess. But even if it was her teleporting away, I do wonder if since she derived so much of her power from Asgard, then the fact that it was destroyed would end up weakening her to the point of not being a real threat anymore. Thoughts? I need really ponder this one. Appreciate you bringing it up!
@@AbitofEverything4U the main reason I brought it up is just to say it’s definitely possible that she’s still alive and kicking. And how it compares to the logic of Wanda still being alive. If we assume one is alive, we should assume both are😊💪
@@SchellShocker79 Definitely agree on that. Your point is excellent. I was just thinking through what it might mean if she did survive. I mean I'm all for seeing her again. She was amazing. I just wonder if she would have any power left. But hey, if they find a way to explain it all, I'm totally good with her being back again!
I think if any "dead" villain can make a believable comeback, it's Mysterio. Man's whole thing is illusions and deception. That being said, I really, really want Scorpion to be the next Spiderman villain. I just finished Better Call Saul and in that Michael Mando, while mostly being sympathetic, gives us some intense moments of villainy, and obviously Far Cry shows this as well, he's far too great an asset to just use in a cameo. We also haven't really had Spiderman come up against a truly evil, menacing villain yet, so that would be great. Also, I know this is semantics, but I really don't think it's fair to call M'baku a villain in Black Panther. Yes, he fights T'challa in the first act, but that was in ritual combat where he absolutely had the right to do so, and even from a narrative perspective it's just there to show what an honourable fight looks like, to better contextualise Killmonger's villainy later on. Apart from that, he is nothing but helpful to our heroes and consistently does the right thing for Wakanda, even if it means helping a royal family he doesn't like very much. Yes, he comes across as menacing, but that's a product of the Wakandans' bigotry towards outsiders, rather than any justifiable response to his actions.
Yeah, I would very much love to see Mysterio come back. But I also suspect that since Damage Control took all his drones, then he wouldn't be able to cast the illusions anymore, so probably wouldn't be worth having him return, unfortunately. On the other hand, I totally agree about Scorpion. We need him in the next movie big time. On M'Baku, that's a good point about whether he's a villain or not. I admit that my thoughts are abit tainted by the fact that in the comics he was Man Ape and was a villain. But I guess if nothing else, he was an adversary due to the ritual combat. And while it was his right, it was an uncool move to go after T'Challa when clearly the kingdom loved him as ruler. All that said, though, I think your point is very valid that he wasn't really a villain per se.
We ALL love Justin Hammer! It’s a shame he couldn’t go toe to toe with Stark one last time, but this post-stark world where everyone is trying to get this tech is the perfect time to bring him back in!!
Absolutely LOVE Justin Hammer. Would be so amazing if we got to see him one last time, such as in Armor Wars. C'mon Marvel, make that happen! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Right...that would be awesome! I mean, even in the comics, Mysterio was different identities at times. My only fear is that since Damage Control now has all of the Stark drones in their possession, that may mean that no one from the Mysterio team can create the illusions. But perhaps they could recreate the devices and make it work. I"m all for a Mysterio return down the road. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
There are a couple of explanations for the Morbius post-credits scene: -Why was Vulture sent to that other universe? Well, the spell itself is unpredictable. How does "erasing memories" lead to "bring people from other universes"? The spell is dangerous because its consequences might not make sense (and that's intentional), which makes such consequences hard to predict. -Why didn't Vulture's presence cause an incursion? Well, being in another universe doesn't cause an incursion, but the posibility of one. Otherwise, why didn't America Chavez or the Spidey villains and variants cause incursions? In conclusion, Vulture's presence doesn't make sense, which makes perfect sense considering the spell itself doesn't make sense in-universe. And a character visiting a different universe than their own doesn't always create an incursion.
Excellent points. I guess that my suspicion is Sony didn't even care how the spell worked and just did whatever they heck then wanted because they had the right to do it. But that could just be me being annoyed in general Sony's overall direction with their movies. What probably bugged me more is the second post-credit scene. I mean, how did Vulture get basically the exact same suit in a short period of time. He came into the Morbius universe with no money, no resources, no family/friends, etc and manages to build that same suit with no explanation. Plus, why would he team up with Morbius anyway. And why would Morbius team up with him. Vulture made amends with Spiderman, since he saved his life. So the second post-credit scene just made no sense to me at all. But I do agree that you raise some good points as to why the first post credit scene could make sense. Thanks for laying out that reasoning. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U I agree with that. No matter how resourceful he is, there is no way he could have built his new suit from scratch, specially considering some of it was made from chitauri scraps. Maybe they'll come up with an explanation in the future. Maybe he had enough knowledge to reverse-ingeneer the suit and he presented his ideas to some unknown supervillain benefactor, but that's a bit of a stretch.
Right, it would take something like that to be able to explain it. Who knows, maybe Sony will figure out how to make it all work. I guess if we get a Sinister Six movie, then maybe I can look past it. But it sure was a sloppy way to get him over to the Morbius universe. Sigh. Anyway, great comments. Love the dialogue!
@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks! Also, as for why would Morbius would help the Vulture: he is good, and the Vulture just invited him to "do some good". The real question is why would Vulture seek his help, that's the weird part. There's no way he'd know about Morbius or even think he might be of use. As for why would the Vulture seek revenge against Spider-Man, the only reason he made peace with him is because he knew he was Peter. Erase that knowledge and you'll end up erasing all loyalty the Vulture might have towards him. BTW thanks for replying, man. Love your channel.
I would argue that Eleanor Bishop is reformed, since she hit Kingpin with a car to save Kate. But, she also was willing to continue doing anything selfish villainous to protect Kate, so that is why I might have put her on probation instead. Also, wouldn't Wanda be reformed, not on probation, since she destroyed the darkhold to stop it from corrupting her and anybody else? But fantastic video, I love these sort of things you do!
Wow, great comments. Okay, for Eleanor, I guess she gets points for helping Kate in the fight with Kingpin, but she loses them by trying to manipulate her by saying "Is this what heroes do, arrest their mothers on Christmas?" Considering she had already killed Armand Duquesne III, hired Yelena to kill Clint, and framed Jack Duquesne, she had no remorse for any of it. So I think she should stay a villain, but that's just my take. I do see your very valid point. On Wanda, I like your suggestion that destroying the Darkhold was noble. I suspect you may have it the nail on the head that she did it more to stop it from controlling her than to stop it from controlling others, so it might be more of an act of self defense. Considering all of the death she caused in MoM, I am not sure she made up for it with another semi-selfish act. But again, just my take and I do see your point. Excellent feedback on the video. Really, really appreciate your comments and appreciate you watching. Thanks so much!
Oh Wanda is a Villian. She has proved time and time again that she is not worthy of her powers. She has kidnapped people for long periods of time and killed plenty in MoM. Wanda bad. Even if they try to bring her back as good.
Surprised that Josh was not considered a villain considering how pivotal he was in Todd’s plan. I know he’s just an uninteresting character going forward, but I feel that he was more relevant that the people who helped Mysterio.
Good call! Yes, I should have included him, as he actually did the heavy lifting in stealing Jen's blood. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. Thanks so much!
Yeah, I've been asked about that a few times, actually. I'm working on timelines for the older Marvel TV shows, with a timeline for Defenders already done in a video and Agents of SHIELD coming next. So after I do those, I may go back and do the villains next. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think it's odd to say Icarus is reformed only because he helped the Unimind, but still say John Walker is on probation, despite also helping the heroes in the end.
Interesting point! I guess I felt Ikaris act was so heroic as it went against everything he believed but he did it out of love for Sersi. And the act went so against his own nature that he ultimately committed suicide over the decision. Walker just helped out but didn't really seem to have changed or improved upon what made him rage and kill the helpless Flagsmasher. But all that said, I do wonder if I should make U.S. Agent a status reformed for any future updates. Thoughts? And thanks for the comments. Really enjoy the dialogue!
@@AbitofEverything4U Honestly I think both would currently be on Probation, as we haven't seen what either of them have done after the fact, when you could argue that they were guilted into helping out, rather than truly turning a new leaf. For Icarus, it definitely didn't seem like he would suddenly be ready to go join the Avengers or start saving the world or anything yet. And for USAgent, as well as Ghost, it's really hard to tell until Thunderbolts come out and we get to actually see them in action, after their heroic climax.
@@shaidreamcast5141 Ah, I'm following you now. Yeah, I may need a "dead, but on probation at the time of death" category for Ikaris. I guess the fact that Ikaris saved the entire world made me lean more towards giving him a break and calling him reformed. But you do have a very valid point!
@@AbitofEverything4U I definitely think there should be some consideration for characters who did help in the end, but more so out of necessity, guild, better judgment, and so on. Basically a character where you see them help, but at the same time could also realistically believe that it was a one time thing. Though that may be a bit too hard and confusing to figure out
@@shaidreamcast5141 Yes, well said. That's really Ikaris in that situation. He did the right thing, but didn't really want to. Of course, I guess that could be considered the definition of a hero in a way, since it's hard to do the right thing if it goes completely against what we want to do. Ikaris is a really complicated character and just doesn't fit well in an box or a category.
I don't want to think about Morbius anymore but it is hilarious that it is canon to the MCU lmao. Very sad that they put Vulture in the Venomverse. Would have been more epic to somehow see him in No Way Home as the Sixth villain so we could have had a true Sinister Six film. I guess since Sony is still making a Sinister Six film they didn't want six villains. Wonder how that project will turn out and who the Spider-Man will be, I hope for Andrew!
Yeah, I still wish Morbius wasn't canon, but unfortunately it is. Sigh. I guess if Sony gives us a Sinister Six with Vulture, then it could be worth them stealing him from the MCU. And yes, I do hope that it will turn out to be Andrew who is their Spider-man. Fingers crossed!
Hah ha, yes, it made me laugh as well. But darn it, that goo has earned a spot in the hall of villains, bizarre as it may look. Hopefully its next picture in the next update will be a bit more Venom-looking. Thx for watching!
This is great! I do wish that for Civil War, that at least some of the members of Team Iron Man (ie Tony himself, but not Peter) were considered “villains” that were then reformed either during or at the end of the movie. Because, like Yelena, they are temporarily villains. Also, imo Vulture should be on probation after refusing to expose Peter in the Homecoming post credits scene :)
Great feedback! I hadn't considered labeling Tony and his team as villains, but I see what you are saying. Although anyone on Team Iron Man would have an issue with that I suspect. I was Team Cap, but there were alot of folks that thought Tony was right. As for Yelena, what makes her more of a villain in my mind is that she was willing to kill Hawkeye based on sus info, even though it would have left his kids fatherless. Don't get me wrong, I love Yelena, but had she succeeded in her mission, it would have been tragic. Plus, she still gave Hawkeye quite the beatdown in the process. Ouch! Vulture is an interesting thought. I was torn on whether he kept Peter's identity secret out of the debt to Peter for saving his life more than making a turn away from villainy. But you raise a great point. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate!
@@NickC_479 Thanos still has his fans. I suspect we'll always wonder if he was right. Of course, if you haven't seen my video on the devastation caused by the blip, then you might check it out as it could make you wonder if Thanos was right after all: ruclips.net/video/VSjYHjjW8vo/видео.html. As for Tony, hard to argue with his logic. But I'd still not like to have Ross telling me what to do. I suspect that when he becomes President Ross and then President Red Hulk, people might view things differently about the Accords. Doesn't mean Tony was wrong, but does make me not trust Ross to do the right thing.
@@AbitofEverything4U I have watched that video actually. I just found your channel and I’ve been binging your videos all day and last night lol. I think cap was right in civil war, but I’m not a cap fan at all lol. I think he’s too righteous. Tony has the right mindset. Even if he was on the wrong side of the battle. I assume spidey wouldn’t like his identity revealed to the government either. But seeing spider take caps shield *chefs kiss* was too beautiful for me to be on caps side even if he was in the right in my opinion.
@@AbitofEverything4U thank you for responding. I’ll be sure to subscribe since you interact with your comment section. Keep the videos coming an I’ll keep coming back to support!
This just affirms one of the MCUs biggest flaws, the villains keep dying and that just shouldn’t happen these villains are known for always coming back and the mcu needs to keep their good ones so they can return later down the line. I think the writers are probably worried that it would be too cheesy and a letdown if the bad guy of the movie escapes or wins but it’s more interesting than knowing a villain is gonna die from the beginning of the movie. They’re getting better now bringing back older villains but the fact gor isn’t gonna be seen again is just boring, he wasn’t at his best in love and thunder and he could’ve come back in the future after killing lots more gods. I think they’ll have to bring back a lot of villains in secret wars, it can work if they do a battle world which they’re gonna do so we’ll see. The mcu needs some lower budget indie films, and villain solo movies
Yes, I totally agree about killing too many villains. And Gorr is a great example. It's one thing if a villain has a fantastic appearance (such as Mysterio) but is one and done. But if they don't have a good appearance (i.e. Gorr) but are one and done then it is a total waste. Would indeed be cool if we got a bunch of the dead villains back for Battle World. Would give them one more chance to shine!
Excellent point about the body. We definitely don't see what happens to him. I guess I put Hela, Surtur and Executioner in the same category due to Asgard massively blowing up at the end of the movie. If there was a chance that Executioner didn't die after jumping out of the ship, he was very likely blown to bits. If Hela didn't die after being Surtur plunged the massive blade down, impaling her and seemingly obliterating her body, then when Asgard exploded, she surely died as her source of power came from Asgard. And even Surtur, as powerful as he was, fulfilled his purpose in bringing about Ragnarok and thus he would have perished in the explosion, if for no other reason than his crown no longer was fueled with power. So it's just my take, but I suspect all three are gone for good. But you are right, I did break my rule of "if you don't see the body". So with Marvel, anything is possible. I just suspect their deaths were a perfect end to their story and that we can consider them gone for good. Either way, I really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. It's greatly appreciated as I love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
Yeah, Wong needs to hope he's got political asylum....like big time! I love Wong, but he is pretty much doing whatever he wants. Kinda funny, actually. But, if Wong does have political asylum, then Wong could be off the hook, but I still suspect Blonsky would be considered a criminal in the U.S. He broke the terms of his probation by tampering with the GPS unit and also turning into Abomination. Don't get me wrong, I really like Blonsky and I just put him on probation vs. being a full on villain. I think he's stopped being a villain, but he just hasn't done anything heroic yet and continues to act pretty sketch. Anyway, really appreciate you watching the video and sharing your thoughts. I love to hear what other MCU fans are thinking!
Yeah, I admit that I'm waiting patiently to see what Marvel is doing with those shows. I watched them all and really enjoyed them. I just wish Marvel would give us a firm indication of what their plans are. i will definitely add in the shows that Marvel indicates are still canon. Hoping we find out that answer soon. In the meantime, I do apologize for not mentioning them. But thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Just for future notice, Looked at the MCU wiki apparently 2 chitauri appeared in Guardians of the Galaxy, one of is killed by Nebula and the other is The Collector’s. I did not remember them and yeah it makes sense that they alive even if they didn’t appear then.
Oh, well now that's a cool factoid on the Chitauri. Okay, that's another great reason that they some of them must have survived the attack on Earth in 2012. You are the first to mention that, because when I made the earlier video no one pointed that out. I was basing my reasoning for them being alive on the fact that they were around during 2014. But you definitely add fuel to the fire with your factoid. Really appreciate you watching and sharing that!
Thanks an interesting idea. Perhaps at least showing the presumed dead on a separate slide at the end, like how I broke out the Reformed but Dead group. I think it's worth making it clear which ones are very likely dead but we just don't know for sure. Great suggestion!
Interesting point. I guess Hulk could be considered a villain during AoU. I was really torn on whether to include Fietro / Ralph Bohner. I don't like including people that are under a spell or others not acting out of free will. Ralph was just such a key part of the series that I wanted to give him a nod. But your point is very valid. Thanks for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
So a few edits 1. Razorfist does fight with Shang-Chi in the final battle so I would say he is reformed unless he was shown in the final end-credit scene in which case alright he is on probation 2. Alioth is not dead and I don't know why you considered him dead they just put him to sleep (in a way) you cannot kill smoke (or whatever alioth is) so he is still alive 3. I think kazi should be classed as dead because you can see echo crying over his body after she stabs him and we know how close they were so he is dead
Thanks for the feedback. Here are my thoughts: 1. To your point, Razor Fist appears with Xialing in the final end-credit scene at her side, so that's why I put him on probation. It's unclear what Xialing is going to do with the 10 rings, so it seemed safe to put them both on probation. 2. I honestly don't know what they did to Alioth. Sylvie enchanted him and he dispersed. So I assumed that with him being smoke, if he dispersed then he was gone. But you could be right and hopefully we will learn in Loki S2. 3. I believe Echo just stabbed Kazi in the stomach, which wouldn't be fatal. She was crying because she knew their friendship of all these years was officially over. Hopefully we will learn in Echo whether he lived or not. If we don't see him appear, then I would agree, he's dead. Again, thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching. I really appreciate it!
@@legofan6559 Oh wow, that's an interesting idea. I guess it's like calling god a villain, though. I mean god does let bad things happen, so god could be considered a villain in that regard. But I think K.E.V.I.N isn't a villain as much as he is just running the MCU and thus we thank him for the good stuff and blame him for the bad stuff. Just my take though. Very interesting thought!
Yeah, I heard about that. Thank goodness it isn't canon as I want the Grandmaster to be alive. But I would agree that based upon that even being filmed at all it means Marvel thinks he's alive. Woo hoo!
@That Movie Nitpicker I'm fine if they release it as long as they say it is just a deleted scene and not canon. I want for Grandmaster in my life, darn it!
I don't think I'd call J. Jonah Jameson a villain. He kinda reminds me of Flash where he makes Peters life harder and he's a jerk but I wouldn't group him into the villain category
Interesting. I guess Flash and JJJ are somewhat similar in the bullying regard, but I think of JJJ as a villain because he puts out knowingly false information in front of millions of viewers and as a result, he wrecked Peter's life to the point where he was desperate enough to ask Dr. Strange to cast that wonky spell which then messed his life up even further. In a way, JJJ caused him more trouble than regular villains like Vulture. Even Mysterio wouldn't have been able to cause him as much trouble w/o JJJ airing the false info about Peter killing him. So I guess that's why I put JJJ in the villain category. But you do raise a good point about him. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts!
Unless I missed something, it looks like the Alive counter didn't go down like it should have when Crossbones died. Edit: Never mind, Zemo took his place on the alive list, my bad.
I just recently watched WandaVision for the 1st time, I would put Wanda as a Villain off the 6 ep I watched lol, I haven’t been able to finish it bc its kind of disturbing when I thought about the reality of it.(like when they said the kids were just in a inanimate state for basically the whole time) But they paint her as a hero in the show which I just didn’t understand
Yeah, Wanda is a very interesting character. She definitely took a turn for the worse by the end of Wandavision and then went full villain in Multiverse of Madness. I suspect she'll have a redemption arc eventually, but you make some good points that she could be considered a villain due to what she did in Wandavision. She was experiencing immense grief, but it was still wrong to see what she did to that town. Great commentary! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Great video I think the collector is in Thor the dark worlds post credit it dose not really mater because it would not effect the count Great video btw
Oh wow, you are the first person to catch that not only on this video, but even on the earlier one from several months back that had 173K views. So you get the "attention to detail" prize for sure. Thanks so much for watching and adding your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
And I agreed with you about the collector he did not look dead in infinity war and it’s great the holiday special confirmed he’s alive. I just love the collector so I’m glad he’s Alive Thank for the reply great video and Mcu RUclipsr
That would be a very cool way to bring him back. That said, I do wonder if they can even create the illusions anymore since Damage Control has all of the drones. I do fear we've seen the last of him, which is such a bummer since he was so awesome in Far From home. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Still feels weird seeing the same Vision from Age of Ultron, Civil War, and Infinity War have no emotion and try and attack Wanda because of Heyward's manipulation. Was glad to see him get back his memories by the end of Wandavision
Yes, that was indeed really tough to watch that play out between Wanda and White Vision. It was very similar to what happened in the comics in some regards and that was tough as well. Very excited to see what happens next with White Vision as he goes on his "VisionQuest" to get his emotions back. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@Fourmath Yeah, you are probably right. I guess I feel safer calling him White Vision until he's back to his normal self, but you are right that people likely just call him Vision now.
Yeah, good question. I think I made a quick comment about there being lots of other villains, but I was focusing on just the main four since I have a gut feeling those may come back to appear in 616 (not Infinity Ultron, as he's toast, but the other three might). If I added in all the villains from What If it could get confusing and I suspect most we will never see again. I'm mainly trying to focus on only those that actually appear (or may appear) in 616. But all that said, I definitely see your point. Maybe I should include them as well. Great suggestions!
Mysterio is a weird one, because my instinct would be to say he's dead since in no way home there was no teasing or suggestions that he could've survived, which I would expect if Marvel wanted us to think he could've survived, but in far from home it didn't look like he was dying, so are we supposed to believe that Spiderman, who is known for not killing people, no matter how tempted, walked up to a man with no powers or anymore defence and just killed him without hesitation? That doesn't sit right with me, so I have to hope he's alive, I have to hope they didn't just have Spiderman casually killing a powerless villain and moving on as if that's something spiderman doesn't mind doing
Good points. I guess I thought that Mysterio faked the video that was leaked to JJJ and basically had it ready to go if he was defeated and had his team release it. I cold be wrong on that. That said, the reason I figure Mysterio is done is even if he lived, Damage Control took all his drones, so he would have no way to cast the illusions. My guess is we don't see him again, even if he did manage to live. But just my thoughts on it. Truly would love to see him back if it was possible.
@@l.pricetag.5207 It's more of it being a frustration caused by Sony swiping Vulture than anything else. Vulture would indeed be a great part of the Sinister Six, it's just annoying how Sony changed the rules of the spell like that.
Yeah, that's the big question mark regarding Wanda. I suspect you could be right that that red magic burst was indeed her death. I suspect we'll find out for sure when the Agatha series comes out. I hope Wanda' still alive, but I do fear she could be dead.
I feel as though Loki should be on probation after Thor the dark world. He helps Thor kill the bad guys and still acts sketch by taking the throne at the end. Just a thought
Interesting thought. I guess that I still consider him a villain because of the ramifications of his actions. He put Odin under a spell and left him at that nursing home, which resulted in Asgard falling to pieces by the time Thor showed up in Ragnarok and which led to Odin giving up on life and dying and then Hela getting freed and wiping out most of Asgard and ultimately ending in it getting destroyed by Surtur as there was no other way to defeat Hela. So his actions at the end of Thor: TDW led to a ton of disaster. But all that said, I still do see your point, so perhaps I should consider him on probation. I'll ponder that. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts on Loki. Really appreciate it!
I would probably take Val off probation and back into villain after Wakanda Forever just for the scene where she openly fantasises about America taking over the world with vibranium WMDs. It's not an evil deed just yet, but it's an evil worldview and she's not shown signs of softening on it Also, Marvel, bring back Justin Hammer! Tony's dead, RiRi hasn't established herself at home, it's the perfect time for Detroit Steel to step in and fail to fill the void
Ah, now that's a good point. Val was practically salivating thinking about taking Wakanda's vibranium and all she would do with it. Excellent suggestion to take her off probation and move to full on villain. And yes, we totally need some Hammer time. Love that dude! Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Love the dialogue with MCU fans!
I 100% agree with your ideas with the Chitauri but could you not argue that the Outriders from IW and Endgame would also be classed as villians? They could just be a type of Chitauri similar to that of the Leviathans and whatever those gorilla looking creatures were in Endgame but who knows.
Interesting...I hadn't though of making the Leviathans separate, but you do make a great point. They were pretty cool looking. And since I gave the Ribbon Monster a shout out, they probably deserve one, too!
I don't think the endgame variant villains 'cease to exist'. Or if they did, it wasn't because the stones were returned. That timeline exists now, its just mostly inconsequential except for a few meetings with the avengers. The 2012 one might be a special case, because we saw the TVA prune that one. I don't even think this was a Nexus Event, Kang 'paved the road' for Loki, so I think he designed the Time Heist that way and just fed the TVA false information on the sacred timeline or something. And I don't think the TVA pruned the regular 1970, 2013 and 2014 branches after the avengers left because of what Renslayer said. Those timelines are part of the greater sacred timeline. None of them lead to a Kang variant.
I like your thought process. I personally don't think the entire branch ceases to exist just because the stone was returned. That's certainly what they implied in the movie, but your logic makes more sense. And even the 2012 branch wasn't necessarily clipped by the TVA as I wonder if Loki created yet another branch by grabbing the tesseract and thus it was only that new branch that the TVA clipped and not the original 2012 branch. Otherwise, Steve couldn't return the mind stone back to that branch at the end of Endgame. I will admit that it definitely seemed like implication was that taking a stone from a branch was so damaging to that branch that returning it effectively retroactively clipped it. Bottom line, they need to give us a D+ special presentation where Steve returns the stones. I'd pay a premium price to see that!
Yes! 'The Final Mission' or something like that. I think there's actually a good chance this would have happened if D+ had been in play at the time of Endgame. You have got me thinking about the chronology of everything surrounding the Time Heist, Loki's escape, the TVA, leading up to the multiverse explosion. I might do a deep dive on this topic.
Venom's status after No Way Home has me scratching my head in confusion as to how his incarceration would even be possible. Is the symbiote he left behind now in a jar?
Yeah, that venom droplette is quite the mystery. My guess is that it somehow factors into Secret Wars so that Tom get's his black suit during that storyline, similar to the first Secret Wars comic run. But it is indeed quite a bizarre way to get us there!
maybe you should say if they reformed then died that they are not a villain so are effectively removed from the dead count and reformed count. This is because they are a hero and also dead, so kind of irrelevant to the list. But after all, it's your judgement, and another great video.
That's a good idea. Maybe I need a new category, even though I was trying to avoid that. I was hoping that the shout-out at the end would be enough, but I definitely see your point. Thanks for the great feedback!
Mysterio could still be alive if we were to stretch our imaginations by believing that chameleon was disguised as Mysterio. While it is a waist of an arch for Peter it is also a waste of a character in Chameleon. While I dont think they should do this for Chameleon and waist him it is a retcon they could use.
Interesting theory! I agree, would be a bummer to lose the Chameleon like that, but it was also a bummer to lose Mysterio, so they could go that route. I do have to wonder, however, if Mysterio could still cast his illusions since Damage Control now has all the drones and also the secret of the illusions was revealed so he might not be able to trick anyone going forward. So in a way, we sorta lost Mysterio even if he didn't die. Such a bummer, but I guess it just means they need to give us Scorpion, Venom, and more new villains down the road. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories. I really appreciate it!
Yeah, I was really thinking more of the matter that made up his body and that he left behind in 616 when I called him a variant. But that's an excellent point about the hive mind. So he's sorta a nexus being from an mental standpoint, but not from a physical standpoint. Wild.
I can't say that Zola died for sure in Winter Soldier. He's just not present. All of his data can be stored somewhere else and simply not turned on. The Zola from Winter Soldier wouldn't have known about it unless it was turned on.
Yes, I do agree that we may see Zola again, and tbh, I hope we do. I'd very much like to be wrong on my assumption that he's dead. Only time will tell! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Ah, great feedback. Yes, much as Najma completely annoyed me as a villain, you are right, she did indeed sacrifice herself. Nice call. And yeah, looking back, we now know more about the reason behind Abomination's appearance in Shang Chi and I agree, he was reformed at that point. Excellent comments. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
There are two people on here who I think may still be alive. First off, we don't really know what happened to Surtur after he destroyed Asgard, he may be alive still. Secondly, and while I find it unlikely he is still alive, we never saw Harrow's body.
Excellent feedback! On Surture, I guess my thought is that Ragnarok is the foretold destruction of Asgard. So, after Surtur thrusts his blade straight thru Hela and deep into Asgard, it resulted in Asgard ultimately exploding as Thor and the others watched from afar. Korg's line was played for humor, but definitely indicated that he and the others assumed Asgard was completely destroyed. As for whether Surtur can die, earlier in the movie he stated "I cannot die. Not until I fulfill my destiny, and lay waste to your home." So that implies that he can die and assumed he would die when Asgard was destroyed. Also, his crown was his source of power and that was surely destroyed in the explosion, so if he is alive, he would just be floating in space with very weak powers and no ability to power up again. But all that said, I think your question is a fair one and we don't know 100% for sure that Surtur is dead, but the evidence seems to lend itself towards him perishing. Harrow, on the other hand, is a very fair point. We don't see the body. I do suspect that Khonshu and Jake's hatred for Harrow (and also for Ammit, who was trapped in his body) was strong enough that there is no way they let him live. The "Godfather-esque" style of his seeming execution makes me think they wouldn't have just wounded him. However, we don't see the body, so I am going abit against my rule with Harrow. Plus, I'm all for seeing him again, as he was amazing. So I'm good if they prove me wrong and he comes back. Great feedback. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your theories!
We hav a good chance of seeing doctor doom in phase 6 since we hav the fantastic 4 film which he could appear and he could be the main villain in that then he could kill Kang or kang gets defeated in kang dynasty which leads to doom being the villain in secret wars
Yes, I hope we get Dr. Doom sooner than later. I do wonder if he will be the Fantastic Four villain or not, since he was the villain in all three previous Fantastic Four movies and Feige likes to do things differently than before (such as not repeating Spider-man's origin story yet again). So it will be interesting to see where Doom first appears.
Yeah, he's a sneaky one, that Kevin Bacon. But he would likely fall into the reformed category after bringing the Christmas cheer to Knowhere! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U You know what, that sounds fair. He has most certainly atoned for his heinous acting atrocities. Love your stuff, keep up the good work.
@@tails1152 Yes, I suspect he has made up for lots of bad acting choice after making Starlord's Christmas special. Thanks for the great feedback. Gave me a good laugh!
Do you know when the Defenders series’ fit into the timeline? I know it’s after the first Avengers, but I’m not sure where they fit in compared to other movies.
That is such a difficult question. I did a video on the pre-Disney+ shows and whether they are still canon or not. They were definitely canon when they were first released, but the fact that D+ doesn't put them in the official timeline is concerning. I am waiting until we get 100% confirmation that those pre-D+ shows are still considered 616 canon. Hopefully the Echo series and for sure the DD: Born Again series will answer it once and for all. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I suspect we won't see Iron Fist again and that will cause alot of questions about the shows. But I do hope they keep as much of the shows being canon as possible. Hope that helps. I don't think there is a firm answer at this point. Anyway, really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. Thanks so much!
Yeah, I think I'll do a timeline video for the Netflix shows at some point. We may not get an official answer from Marvel for awhile regarding whether they are still canon, but I still loved them all (well, loved most and at least somewhat liked Iron First) and I think that laying them out in a timeline would be helpful.
@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks for the response! I'm not sure if you ever watched Luke Cage's final season, but at the end he takes over the Stokes business, leading to him becoming more corrupt of a person and less pure of heart as he was once seen. It may be nearly impossible logistically, but do you think it's possible to see him return in the Thunderbolts as sort of an anti-hero?
I would love to see Luke Cage return and I agree that if they pick up on the storyline from the final season then he might well be an anti-hero at that point. I really enjoyed Luke Cage, even if his villains weren't that great.
For Endgame would you not also include 2014 Gamora as a villain who is on probation? She did attack the heroes which is villainous but then she left without helping either side
Good question. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I thought that 2023 Nebula attempted to urge her 2014 self to lay down her arms. Noting their shared memory network, 2014 Nebula couldn't fathom such a future with 2023's mindset. Gamora stood down to show good faith and appealed to her 2014 sister, but it was all in vain as 2014 Nebula aimed to shoot at Gamora. In reflex, 2023 Nebula shot 2014 Nebula through the cardiac region, killing her. So, ultimately, that's why I listed 2014 Nebula as having a villainous death. Thoughts? Either way, I really appreciate you watching the video and sharing your theories. Love the dialogue with other MCU fans!
Yes, I am really hoping so. He will be a great addition to the MCU and perhaps the Avengers down the road. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
I think I'm tracking with you. Do you mean the British were a villain in Ms. Marvel due to the Partition? If so, I agree. One of the things I liked the most about the Ms. Marvel series was learning about Muslim culture and history and in particular, learning about the tragedy of the Partition. I didn't know any of that history and I think it was very important for the show to take a deep dive into that very troubling and devastating event with the long lasting and tragic impact that it had. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your comments. Really appreciate it!
@@Rockgem12 I was really torn with what to do with them. The fact that the were villains in the comics made me list them as such out of nostalgia, but I guess Man Bull did crash into Jen's car in a fight with El Aquilla so may be the fact that they were introduced as seeming sus is worth them being a villain at the start until we knew better as the episode went along?
Yes, I think you are probably right about that. I thought that since he was made of smoke, that when he dispersed it mean he was dead. But Sylvie charmed him, so I think you are right that it just put him to sleep (whatever sleep means for him). Excellent feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
i guess we dont see the body but for the sake of the actor im assuming they had the character killed also i checked and it was one of moon knights throwable moons but we definitely hear him get stabbed and hurt
Yes, you nailed it with your reply. Midnight Man got hit with the throwable moon but we don't see him die. However, with the actor having passed away, I suspect we won't see him again, sadly.
All the characters from the 2012 timeline are probably dead aren't they?? In Loki, the first scene was the TVA taking Loki from the 2012 Universe and then pruning it, which would send the entire universe to that wasteland where Alioth was, right? So even though Captain America returned to that specific point in time in the timeline and returned the stones, the entire world would have been pruned only a few moments afterwards in Loki's opening scene. I'm not sure where you got the idea of the timelines popping back into place, but I don't think that would have happened. They haven't fixed all the inconsistencies from those timelines. For instance, in the 1960s (I think) timeline, they still stole Pym Particles from Hank. And the 2014 one lacks a Thanos, Nebula, Gamora, Chitauri & Black Order, which is a huge difference. The 2013 one is the only one that seems relatively unchanged, as Frigga accepts her death anyway, and the Aether is likely put back into Jane. I'd imagine that at least the 2014 timeline would have been pruned like the 2012 timeline. Maybe the 1960s & 2013 ones too, but I'm not sure if those changes are big enough to authorize a pruning, considering that Sylvie's timeline wasn't pruned until quite a bit after she was told about her parentage and identified as a girl. EITHER WAY the main point is that the 2012 timeline at least was pruned, possibly the rest of them too.
Great comments. One thing I'll say up front is they left alot to the imagination in Endgame. I would pay a premium price if D+ would give us a special presentation showing Steve returning all of the infinity stones so we know what happened once and for all. So on the 2012 branch, I always assumed that when Loki took off with the tesseract that he created a branch off the branch. It's like how the Watcher said that each decision can create a branch resulting in infinite realities. I could be wrong, but I assumed that when Steve returned the stones, that 2012 branch was still there and the TVA only pruned the new branch created by Loki. But again, I could be wrong. However, the basic premise for the branches being clipped when the stones were returned comes from this exchange in Endgame: Ancient One: “The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the stones, and that flow splits. Now this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branched reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be overrun. So tell me doctor, can your science prevent that?” Bruce: “No, but we can erase it. Because once we’re done with stones, we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken. So, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.” So Bruce said "erase it" which to me means that the stones are so special that they retroactively remove the branch that was created. I guess I could be misunderstanding the exchange, as they didn't really explain things very well in the movie. But anyway, that's where I got that idea. I did an entire video on time travel, which goes into this, if you want to check it out. But thanks so much for the comments. Gives me lots to consider!
@@AbitofEverything4U I see, that makes sense. That complicates the time travel / multiverse quite a bit, but it works. I'm actually gonna go check out the video now, since I thought I knew MCU time travel very well, but clearly I missed some bits.
@@Seraserastria Yeah, it is pretty confusing. Let me know what you think about the time travel video. It's hard to figure out off of the rules since Marvel has altered them abit here and there over time and also didn't explain them thoroughly in Endgame.
I kinda believe that if there are more Zola copies from 616 they aren’t just copies but was a hive mind also you missed a character for Endgame being 2012 Loki and 2013 Loki
Interesting theory on Zola. Would be alot of fun seeing him come back. And great catch on 2012 Loki. That was a miss. Since 2013 Loki was a much smaller role, I would likely just include 2012 Loki to reduce confusion, but I agree, 2012 Loki was a total miss. Great catch!
Ikaris may not be dead. In the comics when he is disintegrated by the deviants he is physically reborn by way of a birthing pod. Very easily they could adapt that by making the consciousness of eternals exist on a celestial data cloud or something of the sort and having his physical being remade
Ah, very good point! I suspect that there is little chance he could have survived the sun's heat, but I hadn't considered them bringing back his consciousness from the data cloud. You may be right that he pulls a Zola and comes back again thanks to stored brain waves. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories!
@@AbitofEverything4U yeah whenever the eternals get reborn that way they have amnesia until something sets them straight. They could even use that to explain thena going sideways. If they say she was killed and resurrected without anyone else knowing
IKR? Namor and Scarlet Witch both racked up a massive body count. They only barely get probation for seeming to turn away from the killing, but yeah, they were brutal!
Good point! I guess I didn't mark him that way as I didn't consider him a villain in Iron Man 1...but maybe he was a villain, since he was working with Stane and against Stark. I really like that thought!
@A bit of Everything Well I guess he wasn't very prominent in Iron Man 1 other than getting shouted at, lol. Fantastic vid, and I really love how you respond to every comment!
@@MagmaCalibur Too funny. Yes, his main role was a fantastic chewing out. Actually one of the best lines from Iron Man 1 as Stane rips him a new one. But I do like the idea of adding him in there for the next version of the video down the line. And yeah, love reading and responding to all the comments. So much great feedback from everyone!
Both are valid points. I guess I felt he reformed as he helped with the unimind, even though it went against everything he believed. He ultimately did it out of love for Sersi, and then sacrificed himself (or so it seems) due to how he felt so bad for going against his beliefs. So I look at him as being heroic because in the end, doing the right thing even if you don't want to do it is really heroic. As for if he died, I think that there is little chance he could have survived the sun's heat, but I agree, with Marvel anything is possible. So we may well see him again in Eternals 2. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories!
@@NimN0ms Thanks for the positive feedback! And also thanks for your comments as it gives me lots to consider. Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts!
Yeah, if only she had been willing to trust Sam, I think they could have worked together to address the issues with the GRC. But in the end, she died fighting for what she believed in and she felt Sam couldn't help her achieve what she wanted. Tragic death, but a very cool character. Thanks so much watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate hearing what other MCU fans are thinking!
@@AbitofEverything4U i just started watching ur channel and your content is very interesting! i subscribed to watch them in the future if i had the time lmao
Oh drat, I forgot to add my theory behind that. After Sylvie's enchantment dispersed Alioth, that may have ended it for good, but I also assumed that when He Who Remains was killed, that finished off Alioth if it wasn't dead already. But I could very well be wrong on that. Thoughts? Really appreciate the dialogue. And thanks for watching!
In the comics when Ikaris is disintegrated by the deviants he is physically reborn by way of a birthing pod. Marvel very easily could adapt that by making the consciousness of eternals exist on a celestial data cloud or something of the sort and having his physical body being remade
Interesting...he would probably fall in whatever classification we put the Punisher, as the Ronin was taking out the trash, but could be considered villainous in the way he was doing it. Great point!
So that's been an open ended question for quite awhile, since we didn't see him die in Infinity War. We just saw the illusion of him in a cage that Thanos created, but when the illusion was dropped, there was no body. Then, in the recent Guardians Holiday Special we learn that they bought Knowhere from the Collector. For that to be possible, it means he must have survived Infinity War. My guess is that he gave up the stone to Thanos rather than being killed and that's how he survived. Pretty cool to get confirmation that he's still around and may return down the road.
If secret wars happens I hope they keep Evan Peters so Wanda gets her brother but I think he needs to go back to his universe in fact I think the fox xmen has changed the story off him you see a little girl he he’s with I think that was a little Wanda I don’t think he who remained wasn’t that evil
He did die in the 70's...he didn't. His physical body died, but his mind was placed in the computer and he was the AI that powered project insight in CA: The Winter Solider. But then that AI was bombed in the movie, so he died for real after that.
@@AbitofEverything4U what’s funny the actor who plays zola is the same actor who plays dobby the house elf from Harry Potter so Zola became a house elf lol
Yep, I definitely broke my rule on that one. I guess he could show up again, but it's so hard to imagine that as much as Khonshu hated Harrow and Amit (who was trapped in Harrow) that he didn't kill him. I am assuming Marvel didn't want to show him getting executed. But you are definitely right that we don't see his body. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
I LOVED Ethan Hawke in that role, I’d love to somehow see him back 😂 And of course! I’m so glad I found your channel. The frequent, long form content is just what I’ve been looking for, and I really value your opinions on the MCU!
Yeah, I'd really love to see Harrow again. Such a great character. Moon Knight S1 wouldn't have been nearly as good w/o his chemistry with Marc/Stephen. And thanks for the kind feedback about the videos. I have alot of fun making them!
Excellent point! I think I'll need a full-on "anti-hero" status when we get Punisher. For me, the distinction between "on probation" vs. "anti-hero" is that on probation means they stopped being bad but need to prove they are made a full turn away from previous bad actions. Anti-hero means they have no issue with being bad, as long as it is only against bad people. Killing is of course wrong, but killing only people who are truly evil makes people like Punisher an anti-hero. It's what separates him from other vigilantes such as Daredevil, who beat the tar out of bad guys, but refused to take their life. Just my take on it, but I do suspect I'll need a new category as soon as Punisher shows up. Blade will fit in there, too. And the Jake personality of Moon Knight. Thoughts?
Good questions... So on Alioth, I guess I'm just assuming he died, which is probably a mistake. Sylvie enchanted him and he dispersed, but since he's a cloud based creature, I assumed dispersing him actually killed him. However, I am second guessing that now and you are probably correct. As for Ribboned Creature...oof, I could have sworn Defender Strange killed him, but I checked again and that didn't happen. You are the first to mention that we didn't see it die, so you get the gold prize (or back in the early days of Marvel, the no-prize). Nice catch. I definitely got that one wrong. Oh well, with over 160 villains, it makes sense I goof at least one up. Sigh. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Very fair points. Here are my thoughts on both. Ragnarok is the foretold destruction of Asgard. So, after Surtur thrusts his blade straight thru Hela and deep into Asgard, it resulted in Asgard ultimately exploding as Thor and the others watched from afar. Korg's line was played for humor as it exploded, but it seemed to indicate that he and the others assumed Asgard was completely destroyed. As for whether Surtur can die, earlier in the movie he stated "I cannot die. Not until I fulfill my destiny, and lay waste to your home." So that implies that he can die and assumed he would die when Asgard was destroyed. Also, his crown was his source of power and that was surely destroyed in the explosion, so if he is alive, he would just be floating in space with very weak powers and no ability to power up again. And the regarding Hela, she likely was killed when Asgard exploded, but even if she didn't die, I do wonder if since she derived so much of her power from Asgard, then the fact that it was destroyed would end up weakening her to the point of not being a real threat anymore. Thoughts? Thanks so much for watching the video and sharing your feedback. I really do appreciate it!
People need to accept Mysterio is dead. We all loved him, Jake Gyllenhaal was excellent and probably the best part of the movie, but he absolutely died. Everyone is in denial since he was so good but to me he died for real. Of course I would love to see him again by any means, but for now he's a goner.
I agree, I think he's gone. Plus, even if he did live, Damage Control took all the drones, so he would have no ability to create the illusions. So I think we just need to be happy with his fantastic appearance in FFH and accept we won't see him again. Well said!
@@AbitofEverything4U Exactly. I think he really went out with a bang.
@@ultimateaquiles Right!
I mean Quentin Beck is clearly dead, but since Mysterio is an act, an illusion, he can be brought back
@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu True. Since Damage Control now has the drones, I guess they could use them to create a new Mysterio. But I also wonder if it was a one trick act, since people know it was done with the drones last time. Fool me once...
For cases like Ikaris and Namor I always see it from the main characters perspectiva, because in a conflict you will always have 2 sides, in the past the villains usually were just fully evil so you could tell they were, nowadays villains aren't that simple they fall more in a gray área instead of black and white.
They can have noble ideals or goals but that doesn't mean they aren't antagonizing other people or being villains to others.
Ikaris, you could say is the villain of humanity in Eternals cause he was going to let humanity (and all life in Earth) go extinct because he believed that the Celestial's way was correct, but that goes against the goal of the Eternals who tried to protect humans, Ikaris even killed his brothers just to accomplish his goal/Arishem's goal, so to me he is 100% villain in that movie even if he wasn't evil.
Namor is a similar case, he is the hero of Talokan but was the enemy and a villain to Wakanda (the protagonist), he throw blame on Wakanda for their problems, and tried to manipulate Wakanda into an alliance for self preservation, again for his people but without caring about the other sides.
Excellent points. Both of those examples were the hardest to call "villain" in the simple sense. They were way more layered and how you viewed them was based on whose side you were taking. If you side with humanity, Ikaris is the villain. If you side with the Celestials, he was the hero. Wild stuff!
I know every bit of this already yet I still sit here and watch the whole video. Its just so fun to think and talk about it all no matter how many times I have before.
IKR? I love just looking at how villains have flowed between the movies and where everyone is at at the end of Phase 4 from a status standpoint. It's just amazing to see how the MCU has grown and evolved. Thanks so much for watching!
Incredible. Really thorough review; I wonder how are you able to keep this level of detail in your head without constantly revisiting all the movies
Really appreciate the positive feedback. As for keeping everything straight...my mind is a vast wasteland of Marvel trivia as I love the MCU so much. But I also check out the cinematic universe wiki when I can't remember a fact. That site is to die for: marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_Wiki. Thanks for watching the vid!
I really hope disney realizes how much they could do with justin hammer still! Even after tony’s passing, with him adding the extra weapons to make war machine for rhodey i think theres enough there to make a War Machine show/movie with him as the villain!
Amen to that. I need more Justin Hammer in my life!
@@Nightlighthere IKR? Marvel better not miss that opportunity!
I agree
The first Stage of Villainy video is how I discovered your channel lol! I really hope we see more Zemo, Justin Hammer, and especially more A.I.M and potentially MODOK. A.I.M have always been my Avengers villains, kinda sad how they wasted them in IM3.
Very cool that you found the channel thru the video. I think you will enjoy this one as well. If nothing else, jump to the analysis at the end as I have done a much better job of breaking down the villains. And I totally agree we need more Zemo, Hammer and A.I.M. Hoping we them back in Phase 5 and 6. Thanks for sticking with the channel. Really appreciate it!
@That Movie Nitpicker Very cool. Thanks for sticking with the channel. Really appreciate it!
Yes!! Been waiting for this one. Great video, the new categories like the "On Probation" and Red Box really help. It's crazy to me that there have been a total of 166 villains in the MCU. That's insane!
So insane! My goodness that's alot of villains. Pretty cool to see them all laid out by status in the end. Thanks for watching and for the feedback. Had alot of fun making this one!
love this video! so cool to get an overview like this for villainy from time to time.
Thanks! I agree, I like getting an overview of where everything is at, both for the heroes and the villains as it really prepares me for enjoying Phase 5 and beyond. Throw in the open questions video I did today and you have all the info you need to close down Phase 4 and jump head-first into the future!
Love your videos they are straight forward and scratch that super specific itch
Thanks! Really appreciate the positive feedback. I agree, I get a little to specific, though and that probably limits my wider reach. But it's just the way my mind works. I find a topic and beat it to death, but try to do it in an interesting fashion. Thanks again for watching!
Just wanna say thanks for all the great work you do! Love your videos!
Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Been alot of fun doing these Phase 4 close-out videos.
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I think the same applies to Hela because we see the same thing happened before Surtur's sword seemingly hit her. There was a small green glow, maybe teleporting? But she draws her power from Asgard, so maybe she couldn't? Unless Asgard had to completely been destroyed for that to happen.
Personally, I think Hela is alive somewhere.
I would love to have have Hela still around. She was incredible. I do fear that since Asgard was destroyed that she would be powerless anyway, but I'd be totally down with her having survived.
She also can't do much because y'know, no powers. I could be wrong about the power thing since its been awhile since I seen Ragnarok
@@AbitofEverything4U that could explain why she could be under the radar? just mere speculations at this point, although personally I'd really love to see her again in some capacity if it were the intended case
@@JuriSins Yup, agreed. I think she's gone, unfortuantely.
@@JuriSins Good point. Any excuse to bring her back is great with me!
You may as well have thrown William Ginter Riva into Iron Man as well if you're including him for Far From Home. Also, both Alioth and the Ribbon Creature are still alive. Of Alioth, He Who Remains says "a creature you both KNOW", using the present tense, and the last we see of the ribbon creature it lost a couple tentacles and was hanging on to avoid falling into America's portal but it was very much alive.
And ah yes, the amazing primary villains that were Shocker 2.0, Tinkerer, and (possibly-maybe-future) Scorpion. Can't wait to see them back after how huge their roles were in Homecoming /s
No but seriously, great video!
Good point about William being in IM 1. I wasn't sure whether to include him as he wasn't really villainous at that point...although he did help Stane to create the suit, so probably he should be listed there.
On Alioth, I couldn't figure out what happened to him. Sylvie enchanted him and he dispersed and since he was a cloud based creature I assumed that killed him. But you could be right that HWR's statement implied he was alive. Maybe they resolve it in Loki S2.
On the Ribbon Creature...yeah, great catch. I thought he had died, but you are right, we don't see him actually die before America Chavez takes off.
As for Scorpion, he had a very small (but cool!) role in Homecoming, but I'm hoping he goes full Scorpion in the future as I've always loved that villain from the comics. And of course the Tinkerer can build the suit for him. As for Shocker 2.0, he was abit lame, but I'd still be down if he appeared with the Sinister Six in the future.
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U For sure, I actually really hope they utilize Scorpion too, I was just making fun of the fact that they were listed as primary villains when clearly they aren't that yet
I think the implication in Loki was that, after the time heist, He Who Remained wiped out the existence and any trace of a variant. So yes, those 2012 variants, as well as the Red Skull variant, would no longer exist.
And I think that anybody associated with Thunderbolts should be listed as gray, since we don't know the scope of what the group is doing. As far as we know, it could just be Ross trying to make them kill Bruce. As you say, Val has been very sketchy. It could go either way.
Excellent feedback. Yes, I wonder if it was the TVA that clipped all the time heist branches. Smart Hulk made it sound like returning the stones would clip the branch, but I was never too sure about that. Either way, I'm with you that the branches are gone.
And yeah, the Thunderbolts definitely need to be gray for now. I'm very interested to see what their first mission ends up being. We'll learn alot at that point.
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Not to mention, we saw a Chitauri in one of Collector's cages and another fix up Nebula in Infinity War... before they were also killed.
Also, if Zemo isn't on the Thunderbolts' mission, at least make him a secret (to anyone except Val) informant/consultant that shows up multiple times in the movie.
Good point on the Chitauri. They pop up everywhere it seems. And yes x 1000 on Zemo being an informant/consultant for Val. We need that dude to make an appearance in the movie. Won't be the same w/o him! Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Lots of talk about Thunderbolts in this video of course... and it still pains me what kind of selection they've made with them. It almost feels like a Black Widow sequel, especially annoying that most know each other very well.
I think my ideal team would've been one that resembled the Avengers more:
U.S. Agent (cap), Yelena (black widow), Bullseye (hawkeye), Justin Hammer as Beetle (iron man), Abomination (hulk), Ghost, Songbird (thor?) and of course Zemo.
Yes, I agree, I wanted several other members on the team. I was really hoping for Hammer, Abomination and Zemo and Bullseye is also a fascinating choice. Hopefully Marvel didn't reveal the full team, but just some of the members. Either way, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
I think that with wandavision Wanda is in more of the probation category leaning towards villainy but that is just my opinion. Love your marvel videos by the way.
Interesting point. I could see that. Good call! And thanks for the positive feedback. Really appreciate it!
Cool video, but here are some points I think might be interesting.
1: Maybe the reason that Spider-Man got off so easily in Spider-Man No Way Home, was because they couldn't find the body of Mysterio. So he may be alive.
2: I feel as if Donny Blaze sort of classifies as a villain.
3: Did Alioth die? I thought he just disappeared.
4: While it's not technically confirmed, I believe that Doc Ock was sent back to his reality, he couldn't have stopped the arc reactor, and he would've died.
5: I'd put Loki on probation after Thor: The Dark World.
6: Would Wendy Spector count as a villain in Moon Knight? She certainly ruined Marc's life.
7: If Talos was a villain, how about Soren and Norex? They associate with Talos.
8: Dr. List appeared in Captain America TWS's post-credit scene, and Avengers: Age Of Ultron.
9: I'd put White Vision as fully reformed. He helped out the rest of the team.
10: I'd put Vulture as on probation. He didn't spill Spider-Man's identity to Mac Gargan. I'm not sure.
Thanks for reading.
Great feedback! Here are some thoughts on your excellent comments:
1: What is a bummer about Mysterio is that even if he's alive, Damage Control now has his drones. Additionally, everyone knows about his secret to creating the illusions, so I suspect he couldn't fool people again. So even if he's alive, I suspect he wouldn't be effective. But I would still love it if he can come back somehow.
2: Interesting point on Donny Blaze. I could see him counting as a villain.
3: You raise a great point about Alioth. I assumed that since he was a smoke based creature that when he disappeared it meant he was dead. But I'm not so sure now.
4: Since Toby's Spider-Man knew about Doc Ock's fate, I wonder if he informed him of how he could be saved when he returned. Almost like you pause a video game, talk through the scenarios, and then unpause and try to get out of a bad situation. It was pretty bleak for him, but I have to assume there was a way for him to live or he wouldn't want to go back.
5: I thought about putting Loki on probation after Thor: The Dark World, but consider that he faked his death, put Odin in a spell, banished Odin to earth to live out life in a nursing home, let the 9 realms fall into disrepair, ultimately led to Odin deciding he no longer wanted to go on living...which then released Hela and which then resulted in Asgard being destroyed. All of this is due to Loki's desire to rule Asgard under false pretences. So while he didn't mean for any of that to happen, he still caused it all by selfishness. Thus, he seems still on the villainy side after T:TDW.
6: Very interesting point about Wendy Spector counting as a villain in Moon Knight. She did indeed ruin Marc's life. I fear that if I open up the villain list to people like her then any terrible family member might need to be included. I think Bruce Banner's dad was also abusive, Howard Stark could be considered an absentee father, etc. But I do agree Wendy was a bad, bad, bad person. It was hard to watch that, knowing children suffer from parents like that in real life.
7: I could see that if Talos is listed a villain, then Soren and Norex could be the same. Good call!
8: I like the idea of adding Dr. List. For the most part I didn't add henchmen, but if they had a name and a specific role, then I think they are worth mentioning.
9: As for White Vision, I don't remember him helping. I thought he fought the Hex Vision and then they stopped to discuss the Ship of Theseus and then Hex Vision restored his memories and he took off. So he seems on probation to me as he didn't do anything heroic.
10: I'm torn on Vulture. He didn't reveal Peter's secret, but he also owed Peter for saving his life. So I'm not sure that count's as heroic or just clearing the slate but then going back to evil when he gets a chance.
Fantastic comments. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts.
I truly appreciate it. Love the dialogue with MCU fans!
@@AbitofEverything4U Here are some more thoughts, and some responses to the old ones.
1: Yeah, you're right about White Vision. I rewatched it, and it he didn't do basically anything to help.
2: For Man-Bull, Porcupine, Aguilla, and Saracen, they weren't really villains. They did destroy She-Hulks car, but that was mostly by accident. All we saw of them, was them trying to reform themselves
3: I feel as if where Wendy Spector differs from the other parents, is that she actively torments her son, while Brain Banner was never really seen, and Howard Stark didn't exactly do too much wrong, as a father.
4: You're right about Vulture, too. The whole Morbius thing is too overcomplicated, but what if it were a variant Vulture. Maybe from some random What If universe.
5: What about Josh from She-Hulk. She at least assisted in the plan to get She-Hulk's blood. (I still haven't watched the finale, so feel free to call me out on this one).
6: The Tracksuit Mafia had it's leader destroyed, all allies either imprisoned, or "dead", and they all got thrusted into prison. I don't think they're making it out.
7: I think there should be a category for the evil organizations, like the Tracksuits, Flag-Smashers, and maybe the Black Order. Or Leap-Frog's assistants.
8: A category for the characters that may or may not be dead could work too. Like Kaecilius, Kingpin, Kazi, etc. They all might be dead, but they also might not.
9: If the Red Skull's curse was gone, and the Tesseract was destroyed, then he might be dead, stranded in space. Or maybe not dead, maybe just stuck.
10: Is Val a villain at all? Maybe she's acting under orders of the government. You don't need to change this, because we're not sure, but also, did Val set up Yelena with the info to destroy Hawkeye, or did Eleanor Bishop? That didn't really make sense.
Thanks for responding.
@@lisamacfarlane646 Great comments! I'll throw out some more food for thought:
1: Yeah, White Vision was like "imma head out". Will be interesting to see where he is at mentally when we see him again.
2: For Man-Bull, Porcupine, Aguilla, and Saracen, I was torn with what to do with them. If nothing else, the fact that they were hanging with Blonsky when he was breaking probation (taking off the inhibitor and turning into Abomination), they destroyed Jen's car which honestly still seemed abit intentional to me to keep her there, they let Wrecker join the group instead of first turning him over to the police for what he did, and the fact that in the comics they were all villains, I finally decided that was enough to list them as villains that then reformed. But I agree, it is questionable if they should have been considered villains.
3: I guess I could call Wendy Spector a villain...it just opens the door to so many new interpretations of what a villain is. Sadly, she likely didn't think what she did was wrong, and back in the day when Marc was a kid, parents were allowed to do some pretty terrible things and it wasn't even considered illegal. My dad spanked me bare bottom with a belt, which would be considered an assault in today's day and age. And even in school, teachers and principals paddled kids left and right and trust me, both my brother and I know that it really hurt from getting our fair share of paddlings. Don't get me wrong, she was a terrible parent and abusive to Marc, but I suspect alot of parents were like her. I'll put her on the list to reconsider when I update the list down the road though. Perhaps she should count.
4: I'd be really happy if it turned out to be a variant Vulture that showed up in Morbius. Of course, they would have to explain why he appeared if it wasn't due to Dr. Strange's spell.
5: I would agree that Josh from She-Hulk should get added. Nice call!
6: I definitely agree that The Tracksuit Mafia is likely done for. We probably won't see them again.
7: I like the idea of a category for the evil organizations. That said, we really need to see the Masters of Evil, so I almost don't want to give Marvel credit for having a super villain group until they give us that villain team-up!
8: I did consider a category for the characters that may or may not be dead. I may do that for the next update. That said, everyone seems to have different opinions on so many characters. I've had people say Hela and Surtur are alive and that Wanda is dead, and so on. So I could create that category, but not everyone would agree on who goes there. Still though, not a bad idea.
9: I agree that if the Red Skull's curse was gone, then he might be stuck. That's why it would be so interesting to see what Cap did when he returned that stone and learned about the Red Skull being there. I wonder if he somehow told the Avengers about him so he was rescued. Or, maybe Red Skull was sucked into the soul realm after Infinity War and then when the stone was finally destroyed in Endgame's opening scene by Thanos, that freed him back to earth. May not be a way for him to come back, but then I never expected to see him again after CA: TFA, so I guess anything's possible.
10: Even if Val is working for the government, I still suspect she is a villain. Ross was definitely a villain even as Secretary of State. And while I don't suspect Val knew the full story with Hawkeye, the fact that she was working with Eleanor and/or Kingpin at all makes her at least be on probation.
Again, great comments!
About the variant villains in Spider-Man No Way Home, you've correctly marked them as reformed, but I was wondering, is it worth considering the question of whether they died AFTER they got sent back to their original universes? After all, this question was central in the whole movie: the entire reason why Peter started looking for a cure is precisely because he didn't want to send them back to die. So did he succeed? Did they survive when they finally got sent back? Food for thought
So I think that's a great question. In my time travel video I discuss it somewhat, but you raise a good question of, practically speaking could they survive. So I think that in each case they were returned to a point where there was just enough time to change the course of their death. I do agree it is questionable whether that is actually feasibly possible that they could save themselves in time, so maybe it's worth a video that delves into that very subject. But my head canon has them each coming back with just enough to alter their fate. Would be a fun topic to tackle in the future!
Goblin, Lizard, and Sandman survived. Goblin was pulled from before he attacked May, Lizard was in the sewers, and Sandman was pulled from years after SM3. Ock could have survived if he found a way to use the ARC reactor to turn off the machine safely. And since Electro no longer has powers, he can't absorb all the electricity, which led originally led to his death
@@jamesthanoob Excellent theories. Yes, I think all of that makes sense for how they could survive!
Electro would still get fried, though.
@@oliverqueen474 Yeah, his fate may be the toughest to avoid. I guess it's based upon where he was when he was transported to 616. If he was indeed in the grid at the time, perhaps he was returned in human form standing next to the electrical grid instead. Would be interesting if we found out down the road what actually happened to each of them.
I think it's safe to say Sharon Carter is likely on probation too especially after she was completely okay with helping the Flag Smashers. I think when next she shows up again, it won't be until Thunderbolts where she potentially joins the team in an effort to redeem herself.
Interesting...I kept her as a villain as I felt she was still being evil. I could call her on probation, but I think she has to earn it by stopping being evil first. What do you think?
another important distinction to add for the next one is whether or not the villain is incarcerated. they're a lot less likely to appear anytime soon if they're in prison.
Ah, that's an interesting thought. That said, it's so hard to tell what a prison sentence in the MCU is. If you think about it, we've really only seen a few folks actually in jail: Justin Hammer, Trevor, Vulture, Abomination, Kingpin and Punisher come to mind. The Clandestine were almost in Supermaxx but broke out like it was easy as can be. And Cap broke everyone out of the Raft w/o much trouble as well. So it could at least be an educated guess, but I suspect it may be hard to determine who is still in jail. But all that said, its a really cool idea!
@@AbitofEverything4U that's a good point, and really a lot of villains aren't really on the level of prison. the US government probably isn't going to lock up thanos after all. though i would argue that saying kaecilius was imprisoned fits better than saying he's dead
@@aurrickan Great point on Kaecilius. He's in a jail way harder to break out of than Supermaxx!
I feel like in superhero hero media being sentenced to prison means “oh yeah they are 100% coming back”
@@pugman9672 Hah ha! Yes, it does indeed!
Also if you consider Wanda not dead, there’s a similar flash of green energy when Hela “dies” so important to note that she may still also be alive
Yeah, that's definitely interesting. It could have been an burst of energy caused by Hela's death, I guess. But even if it was her teleporting away, I do wonder if since she derived so much of her power from Asgard, then the fact that it was destroyed would end up weakening her to the point of not being a real threat anymore. Thoughts? I need really ponder this one. Appreciate you bringing it up!
@@AbitofEverything4U the main reason I brought it up is just to say it’s definitely possible that she’s still alive and kicking. And how it compares to the logic of Wanda still being alive. If we assume one is alive, we should assume both are😊💪
@@SchellShocker79 Definitely agree on that. Your point is excellent. I was just thinking through what it might mean if she did survive. I mean I'm all for seeing her again. She was amazing. I just wonder if she would have any power left. But hey, if they find a way to explain it all, I'm totally good with her being back again!
Well, maybe Hela can draw power from New Asgard? IDK
@@oliverqueen474 Nice! That's where we first saw Hela appear in Ragnarok, so that could work.
I think if any "dead" villain can make a believable comeback, it's Mysterio. Man's whole thing is illusions and deception. That being said, I really, really want Scorpion to be the next Spiderman villain. I just finished Better Call Saul and in that Michael Mando, while mostly being sympathetic, gives us some intense moments of villainy, and obviously Far Cry shows this as well, he's far too great an asset to just use in a cameo. We also haven't really had Spiderman come up against a truly evil, menacing villain yet, so that would be great.
Also, I know this is semantics, but I really don't think it's fair to call M'baku a villain in Black Panther. Yes, he fights T'challa in the first act, but that was in ritual combat where he absolutely had the right to do so, and even from a narrative perspective it's just there to show what an honourable fight looks like, to better contextualise Killmonger's villainy later on. Apart from that, he is nothing but helpful to our heroes and consistently does the right thing for Wakanda, even if it means helping a royal family he doesn't like very much. Yes, he comes across as menacing, but that's a product of the Wakandans' bigotry towards outsiders, rather than any justifiable response to his actions.
Yeah, I would very much love to see Mysterio come back. But I also suspect that since Damage Control took all his drones, then he wouldn't be able to cast the illusions anymore, so probably wouldn't be worth having him return, unfortunately. On the other hand, I totally agree about Scorpion. We need him in the next movie big time.
On M'Baku, that's a good point about whether he's a villain or not. I admit that my thoughts are abit tainted by the fact that in the comics he was Man Ape and was a villain. But I guess if nothing else, he was an adversary due to the ritual combat. And while it was his right, it was an uncool move to go after T'Challa when clearly the kingdom loved him as ruler. All that said, though, I think your point is very valid that he wasn't really a villain per se.
We ALL love Justin Hammer! It’s a shame he couldn’t go toe to toe with Stark one last time, but this post-stark world where everyone is trying to get this tech is the perfect time to bring him back in!!
Absolutely LOVE Justin Hammer. Would be so amazing if we got to see him one last time, such as in Armor Wars. C'mon Marvel, make that happen! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Would be cool if they brought Mysterio back, but this time its William behind the fishbowl and he wears a fully green suit
Right...that would be awesome! I mean, even in the comics, Mysterio was different identities at times. My only fear is that since Damage Control now has all of the Stark drones in their possession, that may mean that no one from the Mysterio team can create the illusions. But perhaps they could recreate the devices and make it work. I"m all for a Mysterio return down the road. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
In the Ditko comics, Mysterio doesn’t use drones, but instead he uses classic SFX tricks from movies and magic tricks.
@@oliverqueen474 Correct! So I guess he could go old school like in the comics.
There are a couple of explanations for the Morbius post-credits scene:
-Why was Vulture sent to that other universe? Well, the spell itself is unpredictable. How does "erasing memories" lead to "bring people from other universes"? The spell is dangerous because its consequences might not make sense (and that's intentional), which makes such consequences hard to predict.
-Why didn't Vulture's presence cause an incursion? Well, being in another universe doesn't cause an incursion, but the posibility of one. Otherwise, why didn't America Chavez or the Spidey villains and variants cause incursions?
In conclusion, Vulture's presence doesn't make sense, which makes perfect sense considering the spell itself doesn't make sense in-universe.
And a character visiting a different universe than their own doesn't always create an incursion.
Excellent points. I guess that my suspicion is Sony didn't even care how the spell worked and just did whatever they heck then wanted because they had the right to do it. But that could just be me being annoyed in general Sony's overall direction with their movies.
What probably bugged me more is the second post-credit scene. I mean, how did Vulture get basically the exact same suit in a short period of time. He came into the Morbius universe with no money, no resources, no family/friends, etc and manages to build that same suit with no explanation. Plus, why would he team up with Morbius anyway. And why would Morbius team up with him. Vulture made amends with Spiderman, since he saved his life.
So the second post-credit scene just made no sense to me at all. But I do agree that you raise some good points as to why the first post credit scene could make sense. Thanks for laying out that reasoning. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U I agree with that. No matter how resourceful he is, there is no way he could have built his new suit from scratch, specially considering some of it was made from chitauri scraps.
Maybe they'll come up with an explanation in the future.
Maybe he had enough knowledge to reverse-ingeneer the suit and he presented his ideas to some unknown supervillain benefactor, but that's a bit of a stretch.
Right, it would take something like that to be able to explain it. Who knows, maybe Sony will figure out how to make it all work. I guess if we get a Sinister Six movie, then maybe I can look past it. But it sure was a sloppy way to get him over to the Morbius universe. Sigh. Anyway, great comments. Love the dialogue!
@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks!
Also, as for why would Morbius would help the Vulture: he is good, and the Vulture just invited him to "do some good". The real question is why would Vulture seek his help, that's the weird part. There's no way he'd know about Morbius or even think he might be of use.
As for why would the Vulture seek revenge against Spider-Man, the only reason he made peace with him is because he knew he was Peter. Erase that knowledge and you'll end up erasing all loyalty the Vulture might have towards him.
BTW thanks for replying, man. Love your channel.
Great points! And yeah, I love the comments people make. It helps me learn more perspectives on things. Really appreciate the convo!
I would argue that Eleanor Bishop is reformed, since she hit Kingpin with a car to save Kate. But, she also was willing to continue doing anything selfish villainous to protect Kate, so that is why I might have put her on probation instead.
Also, wouldn't Wanda be reformed, not on probation, since she destroyed the darkhold to stop it from corrupting her and anybody else?
But fantastic video, I love these sort of things you do!
Wow, great comments. Okay, for Eleanor, I guess she gets points for helping Kate in the fight with Kingpin, but she loses them by trying to manipulate her by saying "Is this what heroes do, arrest their mothers on Christmas?" Considering she had already killed Armand Duquesne III, hired Yelena to kill Clint, and framed Jack Duquesne, she had no remorse for any of it. So I think she should stay a villain, but that's just my take. I do see your very valid point.
On Wanda, I like your suggestion that destroying the Darkhold was noble. I suspect you may have it the nail on the head that she did it more to stop it from controlling her than to stop it from controlling others, so it might be more of an act of self defense. Considering all of the death she caused in MoM, I am not sure she made up for it with another semi-selfish act. But again, just my take and I do see your point.
Excellent feedback on the video. Really, really appreciate your comments and appreciate you watching. Thanks so much!
Oh Wanda is a Villian. She has proved time and time again that she is not worthy of her powers. She has kidnapped people for long periods of time and killed plenty in MoM. Wanda bad. Even if they try to bring her back as good.
amaaaaazing content
Thanks! Really appreciate that!
Surprised that Josh was not considered a villain considering how pivotal he was in Todd’s plan. I know he’s just an uninteresting character going forward, but I feel that he was more relevant that the people who helped Mysterio.
Good call! Yes, I should have included him, as he actually did the heavy lifting in stealing Jen's blood. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. Thanks so much!
It would be nice to have one of these for all the old Marvel TV shows.
Yeah, I've been asked about that a few times, actually. I'm working on timelines for the older Marvel TV shows, with a timeline for Defenders already done in a video and Agents of SHIELD coming next. So after I do those, I may go back and do the villains next. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think it's odd to say Icarus is reformed only because he helped the Unimind, but still say John Walker is on probation, despite also helping the heroes in the end.
Interesting point! I guess I felt Ikaris act was so heroic as it went against everything he believed but he did it out of love for Sersi. And the act went so against his own nature that he ultimately committed suicide over the decision. Walker just helped out but didn't really seem to have changed or improved upon what made him rage and kill the helpless Flagsmasher. But all that said, I do wonder if I should make U.S. Agent a status reformed for any future updates. Thoughts? And thanks for the comments. Really enjoy the dialogue!
@@AbitofEverything4U Honestly I think both would currently be on Probation, as we haven't seen what either of them have done after the fact, when you could argue that they were guilted into helping out, rather than truly turning a new leaf. For Icarus, it definitely didn't seem like he would suddenly be ready to go join the Avengers or start saving the world or anything yet. And for USAgent, as well as Ghost, it's really hard to tell until Thunderbolts come out and we get to actually see them in action, after their heroic climax.
@@shaidreamcast5141 Ah, I'm following you now. Yeah, I may need a "dead, but on probation at the time of death" category for Ikaris. I guess the fact that Ikaris saved the entire world made me lean more towards giving him a break and calling him reformed. But you do have a very valid point!
@@AbitofEverything4U I definitely think there should be some consideration for characters who did help in the end, but more so out of necessity, guild, better judgment, and so on. Basically a character where you see them help, but at the same time could also realistically believe that it was a one time thing. Though that may be a bit too hard and confusing to figure out
@@shaidreamcast5141 Yes, well said. That's really Ikaris in that situation. He did the right thing, but didn't really want to. Of course, I guess that could be considered the definition of a hero in a way, since it's hard to do the right thing if it goes completely against what we want to do. Ikaris is a really complicated character and just doesn't fit well in an box or a category.
I don't want to think about Morbius anymore but it is hilarious that it is canon to the MCU lmao. Very sad that they put Vulture in the Venomverse. Would have been more epic to somehow see him in No Way Home as the Sixth villain so we could have had a true Sinister Six film. I guess since Sony is still making a Sinister Six film they didn't want six villains. Wonder how that project will turn out and who the Spider-Man will be, I hope for Andrew!
Yeah, I still wish Morbius wasn't canon, but unfortunately it is. Sigh. I guess if Sony gives us a Sinister Six with Vulture, then it could be worth them stealing him from the MCU. And yes, I do hope that it will turn out to be Andrew who is their Spider-man. Fingers crossed!
idk why I thought the venom goop image was so funny lmao
Hah ha, yes, it made me laugh as well. But darn it, that goo has earned a spot in the hall of villains, bizarre as it may look. Hopefully its next picture in the next update will be a bit more Venom-looking. Thx for watching!
This is great! I do wish that for Civil War, that at least some of the members of Team Iron Man (ie Tony himself, but not Peter) were considered “villains” that were then reformed either during or at the end of the movie. Because, like Yelena, they are temporarily villains.
Also, imo Vulture should be on probation after refusing to expose Peter in the Homecoming post credits scene :)
Great feedback! I hadn't considered labeling Tony and his team as villains, but I see what you are saying. Although anyone on Team Iron Man would have an issue with that I suspect. I was Team Cap, but there were alot of folks that thought Tony was right.
As for Yelena, what makes her more of a villain in my mind is that she was willing to kill Hawkeye based on sus info, even though it would have left his kids fatherless. Don't get me wrong, I love Yelena, but had she succeeded in her mission, it would have been tragic. Plus, she still gave Hawkeye quite the beatdown in the process. Ouch!
Vulture is an interesting thought. I was torn on whether he kept Peter's identity secret out of the debt to Peter for saving his life more than making a turn away from villainy. But you raise a great point.
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate!
Thanos was right. But I was team Tony in civil war.
@@NickC_479 Thanos still has his fans. I suspect we'll always wonder if he was right. Of course, if you haven't seen my video on the devastation caused by the blip, then you might check it out as it could make you wonder if Thanos was right after all: ruclips.net/video/VSjYHjjW8vo/видео.html. As for Tony, hard to argue with his logic. But I'd still not like to have Ross telling me what to do. I suspect that when he becomes President Ross and then President Red Hulk, people might view things differently about the Accords. Doesn't mean Tony was wrong, but does make me not trust Ross to do the right thing.
@@AbitofEverything4U I have watched that video actually. I just found your channel and I’ve been binging your videos all day and last night lol. I think cap was right in civil war, but I’m not a cap fan at all lol. I think he’s too righteous. Tony has the right mindset. Even if he was on the wrong side of the battle. I assume spidey wouldn’t like his identity revealed to the government either. But seeing spider take caps shield *chefs kiss* was too beautiful for me to be on caps side even if he was in the right in my opinion.
@@AbitofEverything4U thank you for responding. I’ll be sure to subscribe since you interact with your comment section. Keep the videos coming an I’ll keep coming back to support!
fun fact: gorr's death being 69th means his death is a friggin joke
LOL! Yes, that is pretty ironic, eh?
This just affirms one of the MCUs biggest flaws, the villains keep dying and that just shouldn’t happen these villains are known for always coming back and the mcu needs to keep their good ones so they can return later down the line. I think the writers are probably worried that it would be too cheesy and a letdown if the bad guy of the movie escapes or wins but it’s more interesting than knowing a villain is gonna die from the beginning of the movie. They’re getting better now bringing back older villains but the fact gor isn’t gonna be seen again is just boring, he wasn’t at his best in love and thunder and he could’ve come back in the future after killing lots more gods. I think they’ll have to bring back a lot of villains in secret wars, it can work if they do a battle world which they’re gonna do so we’ll see. The mcu needs some lower budget indie films, and villain solo movies
Yes, I totally agree about killing too many villains. And Gorr is a great example. It's one thing if a villain has a fantastic appearance (such as Mysterio) but is one and done. But if they don't have a good appearance (i.e. Gorr) but are one and done then it is a total waste. Would indeed be cool if we got a bunch of the dead villains back for Battle World. Would give them one more chance to shine!
15:34 executioner is maybe alive. We didnt see the dead body right? He is an asgardian. Thor handled the blades of hela multiple times.
Excellent point about the body. We definitely don't see what happens to him. I guess I put Hela, Surtur and Executioner in the same category due to Asgard massively blowing up at the end of the movie. If there was a chance that Executioner didn't die after jumping out of the ship, he was very likely blown to bits. If Hela didn't die after being Surtur plunged the massive blade down, impaling her and seemingly obliterating her body, then when Asgard exploded, she surely died as her source of power came from Asgard. And even Surtur, as powerful as he was, fulfilled his purpose in bringing about Ragnarok and thus he would have perished in the explosion, if for no other reason than his crown no longer was fueled with power.
So it's just my take, but I suspect all three are gone for good. But you are right, I did break my rule of "if you don't see the body". So with Marvel, anything is possible. I just suspect their deaths were a perfect end to their story and that we can consider them gone for good. Either way, I really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. It's greatly appreciated as I love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
Wong broke abomination out of prison, if you consider him escaping villainous cuz it's illegal then Wong should be there too
Yeah, Wong needs to hope he's got political asylum....like big time! I love Wong, but he is pretty much doing whatever he wants. Kinda funny, actually.
But, if Wong does have political asylum, then Wong could be off the hook, but I still suspect Blonsky would be considered a criminal in the U.S. He broke the terms of his probation by tampering with the GPS unit and also turning into Abomination. Don't get me wrong, I really like Blonsky and I just put him on probation vs. being a full on villain. I think he's stopped being a villain, but he just hasn't done anything heroic yet and continues to act pretty sketch.
Anyway, really appreciate you watching the video and sharing your thoughts. I love to hear what other MCU fans are thinking!
I wish you talked about the netflix/ABC/Freefrom etc shows with tons of rumors that a good amount of them are returning
Yeah, I admit that I'm waiting patiently to see what Marvel is doing with those shows. I watched them all and really enjoyed them. I just wish Marvel would give us a firm indication of what their plans are. i will definitely add in the shows that Marvel indicates are still canon. Hoping we find out that answer soon. In the meantime, I do apologize for not mentioning them. But thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Just for future notice, Looked at the MCU wiki apparently 2 chitauri appeared in Guardians of the Galaxy, one of is killed by Nebula and the other is The Collector’s. I did not remember them and yeah it makes sense that they alive even if they didn’t appear then.
I just realized you didn’t completely do the video I assume someone already said this then lol
Oh, well now that's a cool factoid on the Chitauri. Okay, that's another great reason that they some of them must have survived the attack on Earth in 2012. You are the first to mention that, because when I made the earlier video no one pointed that out. I was basing my reasoning for them being alive on the fact that they were around during 2014. But you definitely add fuel to the fire with your factoid. Really appreciate you watching and sharing that!
I feel like a presumed dead category would have been a good addition to this list
Thanks an interesting idea. Perhaps at least showing the presumed dead on a separate slide at the end, like how I broke out the Reformed but Dead group. I think it's worth making it clear which ones are very likely dead but we just don't know for sure. Great suggestion!
If Ralph Bohner was a villain, and he was just being controlled, why wasn’t Hulk here for Age of Ultron (he was being controlled by Wanda)?
Interesting point. I guess Hulk could be considered a villain during AoU. I was really torn on whether to include Fietro / Ralph Bohner. I don't like including people that are under a spell or others not acting out of free will. Ralph was just such a key part of the series that I wanted to give him a nod. But your point is very valid. Thanks for watching and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
So a few edits
1. Razorfist does fight with Shang-Chi in the final battle so I would say he is reformed unless he was shown in the final end-credit scene in which case alright he is on probation
2. Alioth is not dead and I don't know why you considered him dead they just put him to sleep (in a way) you cannot kill smoke (or whatever alioth is) so he is still alive
3. I think kazi should be classed as dead because you can see echo crying over his body after she stabs him and we know how close they were so he is dead
Thanks for the feedback. Here are my thoughts:
1. To your point, Razor Fist appears with Xialing in the final end-credit scene at her side, so that's why I put him on probation. It's unclear what Xialing is going to do with the 10 rings, so it seemed safe to put them both on probation.
2. I honestly don't know what they did to Alioth. Sylvie enchanted him and he dispersed. So I assumed that with him being smoke, if he dispersed then he was gone. But you could be right and hopefully we will learn in Loki S2.
3. I believe Echo just stabbed Kazi in the stomach, which wouldn't be fatal. She was crying because she knew their friendship of all these years was officially over. Hopefully we will learn in Echo whether he lived or not. If we don't see him appear, then I would agree, he's dead.
Again, thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching. I really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Also wouldn't KEVIN be a villain in she-hulk since he orchestrated the whole show i don't know he was portrayed as such
@@legofan6559 Oh wow, that's an interesting idea. I guess it's like calling god a villain, though. I mean god does let bad things happen, so god could be considered a villain in that regard. But I think K.E.V.I.N isn't a villain as much as he is just running the MCU and thus we thank him for the good stuff and blame him for the bad stuff. Just my take though. Very interesting thought!
Grandmaster survived Ragnarok. There's an unreleased deleted scene of Gorr butchering him in Love and Thunder
Yeah, I heard about that. Thank goodness it isn't canon as I want the Grandmaster to be alive. But I would agree that based upon that even being filmed at all it means Marvel thinks he's alive. Woo hoo!
@That Movie Nitpicker I'm fine if they release it as long as they say it is just a deleted scene and not canon. I want for Grandmaster in my life, darn it!
I don't think I'd call J. Jonah Jameson a villain. He kinda reminds me of Flash where he makes Peters life harder and he's a jerk but I wouldn't group him into the villain category
Interesting. I guess Flash and JJJ are somewhat similar in the bullying regard, but I think of JJJ as a villain because he puts out knowingly false information in front of millions of viewers and as a result, he wrecked Peter's life to the point where he was desperate enough to ask Dr. Strange to cast that wonky spell which then messed his life up even further.
In a way, JJJ caused him more trouble than regular villains like Vulture. Even Mysterio wouldn't have been able to cause him as much trouble w/o JJJ airing the false info about Peter killing him. So I guess that's why I put JJJ in the villain category. But you do raise a good point about him.
Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts!
Unless I missed something, it looks like the Alive counter didn't go down like it should have when Crossbones died.
Edit: Never mind, Zemo took his place on the alive list, my bad.
Yeah, that counter was pretty tricky but at least the red square on returning villains helped alot. Thanks for watching so closely!
I just recently watched WandaVision for the 1st time, I would put Wanda as a Villain off the 6 ep I watched lol, I haven’t been able to finish it bc its kind of disturbing when I thought about the reality of it.(like when they said the kids were just in a inanimate state for basically the whole time) But they paint her as a hero in the show which I just didn’t understand
Yeah, Wanda is a very interesting character. She definitely took a turn for the worse by the end of Wandavision and then went full villain in Multiverse of Madness. I suspect she'll have a redemption arc eventually, but you make some good points that she could be considered a villain due to what she did in Wandavision. She was experiencing immense grief, but it was still wrong to see what she did to that town. Great commentary! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Great video
I think the collector is in Thor the dark worlds post credit it dose not really mater because it would not effect the count
Great video btw
Oh wow, you are the first person to catch that not only on this video, but even on the earlier one from several months back that had 173K views. So you get the "attention to detail" prize for sure. Thanks so much for watching and adding your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
And I agreed with you about the collector he did not look dead in infinity war and it’s great the holiday special confirmed he’s alive. I just love the collector so I’m glad he’s Alive
Thank for the reply great video and Mcu RUclipsr
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Love doing the videos and appreciate the dialogue with other MCU fans!
838 are definitely gonna be involved in Secret Wars!
Oh yeah! Bring on 838. Should be awesome!
Even if Mysterio is dead, Jake Gyllenhaal could return as the character, but maybe as just an illusion controlled by his team.
That would be a very cool way to bring him back. That said, I do wonder if they can even create the illusions anymore since Damage Control has all of the drones. I do fear we've seen the last of him, which is such a bummer since he was so awesome in Far From home. Anyway, thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Still feels weird seeing the same Vision from Age of Ultron, Civil War, and Infinity War have no emotion and try and attack Wanda because of Heyward's manipulation. Was glad to see him get back his memories by the end of Wandavision
Yes, that was indeed really tough to watch that play out between Wanda and White Vision. It was very similar to what happened in the comics in some regards and that was tough as well. Very excited to see what happens next with White Vision as he goes on his "VisionQuest" to get his emotions back. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@AbitofEverything4U you know that it's just Vision right? The only time you need to clearly Vision is when talking about the Hex Vision
@@Fourmath Yeah, you are probably right. I guess I feel safer calling him White Vision until he's back to his normal self, but you are right that people likely just call him Vision now.
You know Phase 4 blasted out content when Endgame is only the halfway point of the video.
ikr? I thought that was really wild, too!
What about other villains from What If? Obadiah Stane, Red Skull, Red Skull’s tentacle monster, the zombies, etc.
Yeah, good question. I think I made a quick comment about there being lots of other villains, but I was focusing on just the main four since I have a gut feeling those may come back to appear in 616 (not Infinity Ultron, as he's toast, but the other three might). If I added in all the villains from What If it could get confusing and I suspect most we will never see again. I'm mainly trying to focus on only those that actually appear (or may appear) in 616. But all that said, I definitely see your point. Maybe I should include them as well. Great suggestions!
Mysterio is a weird one, because my instinct would be to say he's dead since in no way home there was no teasing or suggestions that he could've survived, which I would expect if Marvel wanted us to think he could've survived, but in far from home it didn't look like he was dying, so are we supposed to believe that Spiderman, who is known for not killing people, no matter how tempted, walked up to a man with no powers or anymore defence and just killed him without hesitation? That doesn't sit right with me, so I have to hope he's alive, I have to hope they didn't just have Spiderman casually killing a powerless villain and moving on as if that's something spiderman doesn't mind doing
Good points. I guess I thought that Mysterio faked the video that was leaked to JJJ and basically had it ready to go if he was defeated and had his team release it. I cold be wrong on that. That said, the reason I figure Mysterio is done is even if he lived, Damage Control took all his drones, so he would have no way to cast the illusions. My guess is we don't see him again, even if he did manage to live. But just my thoughts on it. Truly would love to see him back if it was possible.
I’m still trying to forget the Morbius Credit-Scenes. Even if a Sinister Six team up would be cool I don’t want MCU Vulture to be part of it.
IKR? Ugh! Give me back my Vulture!
Why not? He'd honestly be the best part.
@@l.pricetag.5207 It's more of it being a frustration caused by Sony swiping Vulture than anything else. Vulture would indeed be a great part of the Sinister Six, it's just annoying how Sony changed the rules of the spell like that.
aboe i think the burst of red magic was like a death blast or something like that
Yeah, that's the big question mark regarding Wanda. I suspect you could be right that that red magic burst was indeed her death. I suspect we'll find out for sure when the Agatha series comes out. I hope Wanda' still alive, but I do fear she could be dead.
@@AbitofEverything4U I think it would be best if she did her character development would make better sense if she 💀
@@conman_yt7999 Yeah, I think you could be right about that!
@@AbitofEverything4U ok.bye see you in your next upload
@@conman_yt7999 C-ya soon!
If I was given the option to either die or go to the Sony universe I would probably just die
Amen. Preach it!
I feel as though Loki should be on probation after Thor the dark world. He helps Thor kill the bad guys and still acts sketch by taking the throne at the end. Just a thought
Interesting thought. I guess that I still consider him a villain because of the ramifications of his actions. He put Odin under a spell and left him at that nursing home, which resulted in Asgard falling to pieces by the time Thor showed up in Ragnarok and which led to Odin giving up on life and dying and then Hela getting freed and wiping out most of Asgard and ultimately ending in it getting destroyed by Surtur as there was no other way to defeat Hela. So his actions at the end of Thor: TDW led to a ton of disaster. But all that said, I still do see your point, so perhaps I should consider him on probation. I'll ponder that. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts on Loki. Really appreciate it!
I would probably take Val off probation and back into villain after Wakanda Forever just for the scene where she openly fantasises about America taking over the world with vibranium WMDs. It's not an evil deed just yet, but it's an evil worldview and she's not shown signs of softening on it
Also, Marvel, bring back Justin Hammer! Tony's dead, RiRi hasn't established herself at home, it's the perfect time for Detroit Steel to step in and fail to fill the void
Ah, now that's a good point. Val was practically salivating thinking about taking Wakanda's vibranium and all she would do with it. Excellent suggestion to take her off probation and move to full on villain.
And yes, we totally need some Hammer time. Love that dude!
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Love the dialogue with MCU fans!
I 100% agree with your ideas with the Chitauri but could you not argue that the Outriders from IW and Endgame would also be classed as villians? They could just be a type of Chitauri similar to that of the Leviathans and whatever those gorilla looking creatures were in Endgame but who knows.
Interesting...I hadn't though of making the Leviathans separate, but you do make a great point. They were pretty cool looking. And since I gave the Ribbon Monster a shout out, they probably deserve one, too!
I don't think the endgame variant villains 'cease to exist'. Or if they did, it wasn't because the stones were returned. That timeline exists now, its just mostly inconsequential except for a few meetings with the avengers.
The 2012 one might be a special case, because we saw the TVA prune that one. I don't even think this was a Nexus Event, Kang 'paved the road' for Loki, so I think he designed the Time Heist that way and just fed the TVA false information on the sacred timeline or something. And I don't think the TVA pruned the regular 1970, 2013 and 2014 branches after the avengers left because of what Renslayer said. Those timelines are part of the greater sacred timeline. None of them lead to a Kang variant.
I like your thought process. I personally don't think the entire branch ceases to exist just because the stone was returned. That's certainly what they implied in the movie, but your logic makes more sense. And even the 2012 branch wasn't necessarily clipped by the TVA as I wonder if Loki created yet another branch by grabbing the tesseract and thus it was only that new branch that the TVA clipped and not the original 2012 branch. Otherwise, Steve couldn't return the mind stone back to that branch at the end of Endgame.
I will admit that it definitely seemed like implication was that taking a stone from a branch was so damaging to that branch that returning it effectively retroactively clipped it. Bottom line, they need to give us a D+ special presentation where Steve returns the stones. I'd pay a premium price to see that!
Yes! 'The Final Mission' or something like that. I think there's actually a good chance this would have happened if D+ had been in play at the time of Endgame.
You have got me thinking about the chronology of everything surrounding the Time Heist, Loki's escape, the TVA, leading up to the multiverse explosion. I might do a deep dive on this topic.
@@Surfboarder4 Yeah, this is so worthy of a deep dive. Love to brainstorm it with you if you start that journey!
@@AbitofEverything4U I think the first thing to do is compile everything thats been said or shown on the topic.
Yes, that's exactly what I started doing with the time travel video. If you do watch it, let me know what you think.
Venom's status after No Way Home has me scratching my head in confusion as to how his incarceration would even be possible. Is the symbiote he left behind now in a jar?
Yeah, that venom droplette is quite the mystery. My guess is that it somehow factors into Secret Wars so that Tom get's his black suit during that storyline, similar to the first Secret Wars comic run. But it is indeed quite a bizarre way to get us there!
maybe you should say if they reformed then died that they are not a villain so are effectively removed from the dead count and reformed count. This is because they are a hero and also dead, so kind of irrelevant to the list. But after all, it's your judgement, and another great video.
That's a good idea. Maybe I need a new category, even though I was trying to avoid that. I was hoping that the shout-out at the end would be enough, but I definitely see your point. Thanks for the great feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4U You're very welcome and keep up the great work!
@@liambrown8992 Thanks so much!
Mysterio could still be alive if we were to stretch our imaginations by believing that chameleon was disguised as Mysterio. While it is a waist of an arch for Peter it is also a waste of a character in Chameleon. While I dont think they should do this for Chameleon and waist him it is a retcon they could use.
Interesting theory! I agree, would be a bummer to lose the Chameleon like that, but it was also a bummer to lose Mysterio, so they could go that route. I do have to wonder, however, if Mysterio could still cast his illusions since Damage Control now has all the drones and also the secret of the illusions was revealed so he might not be able to trick anyone going forward.
So in a way, we sorta lost Mysterio even if he didn't die. Such a bummer, but I guess it just means they need to give us Scorpion, Venom, and more new villains down the road. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories. I really appreciate it!
Venom isn't really a variant, since he has a multiverse hive-mind. The matter that makes up his body, sure, but his mind... not really.
Yeah, I was really thinking more of the matter that made up his body and that he left behind in 616 when I called him a variant. But that's an excellent point about the hive mind. So he's sorta a nexus being from an mental standpoint, but not from a physical standpoint. Wild.
I can't say that Zola died for sure in Winter Soldier. He's just not present. All of his data can be stored somewhere else and simply not turned on. The Zola from Winter Soldier wouldn't have known about it unless it was turned on.
Yes, I do agree that we may see Zola again, and tbh, I hope we do. I'd very much like to be wrong on my assumption that he's dead. Only time will tell! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U Yes, sorry I commented this before I finished the video and you did kinda cover it.
@@sneakernickel No problem. You aren't the first that have suggested Zola lived, so you may be onto something.
You forgot to mention Najma was technically reformed before she died. And also abomination was technically on probation in Shang Chi.
Ah, great feedback. Yes, much as Najma completely annoyed me as a villain, you are right, she did indeed sacrifice herself. Nice call. And yeah, looking back, we now know more about the reason behind Abomination's appearance in Shang Chi and I agree, he was reformed at that point. Excellent comments. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@AbitofEverything4U Absolutely. Enjoyed the video. Can't wait for the phase 5 one
@@xXEndermanManXx Awesome. Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Phase 5 and 6 video will be out in a few hours!
There are two people on here who I think may still be alive. First off, we don't really know what happened to Surtur after he destroyed Asgard, he may be alive still. Secondly, and while I find it unlikely he is still alive, we never saw Harrow's body.
Excellent feedback!
On Surture, I guess my thought is that Ragnarok is the foretold destruction of Asgard. So, after Surtur thrusts his blade straight thru Hela and deep into Asgard, it resulted in Asgard ultimately exploding as Thor and the others watched from afar. Korg's line was played for humor, but definitely indicated that he and the others assumed Asgard was completely destroyed.
As for whether Surtur can die, earlier in the movie he stated "I cannot die. Not until I fulfill my destiny, and lay waste to your home." So that implies that he can die and assumed he would die when Asgard was destroyed. Also, his crown was his source of power and that was surely destroyed in the explosion, so if he is alive, he would just be floating in space with very weak powers and no ability to power up again.
But all that said, I think your question is a fair one and we don't know 100% for sure that Surtur is dead, but the evidence seems to lend itself towards him perishing.
Harrow, on the other hand, is a very fair point. We don't see the body. I do suspect that Khonshu and Jake's hatred for Harrow (and also for Ammit, who was trapped in his body) was strong enough that there is no way they let him live. The "Godfather-esque" style of his seeming execution makes me think they wouldn't have just wounded him. However, we don't see the body, so I am going abit against my rule with Harrow. Plus, I'm all for seeing him again, as he was amazing. So I'm good if they prove me wrong and he comes back.
Great feedback. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your theories!
Ragnarok had an end credit scene showing Grandmaster survived.
Nah that was a deleted scene
Yeah, I agree with @pizzasoup that it was a deleted scene. But I still hold out hope the Grandmaster is indeed alive.
@@pizzasoup Nope. It is not a deleted scene. It is official.
@@AbitofEverything4U ruclips.net/video/k6wA4hP1akc/видео.html
@@jasoncook7378 it is a deleted scene, its not in the movie
We hav a good chance of seeing doctor doom in phase 6 since we hav the fantastic 4 film which he could appear and he could be the main villain in that then he could kill Kang or kang gets defeated in kang dynasty which leads to doom being the villain in secret wars
Yes, I hope we get Dr. Doom sooner than later. I do wonder if he will be the Fantastic Four villain or not, since he was the villain in all three previous Fantastic Four movies and Feige likes to do things differently than before (such as not repeating Spider-man's origin story yet again). So it will be interesting to see where Doom first appears.
I can't believe you forgot the most disgusting villain in the MCU, Kevin Bacon.
Yeah, he's a sneaky one, that Kevin Bacon. But he would likely fall into the reformed category after bringing the Christmas cheer to Knowhere! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U You know what, that sounds fair. He has most certainly atoned for his heinous acting atrocities. Love your stuff, keep up the good work.
@@tails1152 Yes, I suspect he has made up for lots of bad acting choice after making Starlord's Christmas special. Thanks for the great feedback. Gave me a good laugh!
Do you know when the Defenders series’ fit into the timeline? I know it’s after the first Avengers, but I’m not sure where they fit in compared to other movies.
That is such a difficult question. I did a video on the pre-Disney+ shows and whether they are still canon or not. They were definitely canon when they were first released, but the fact that D+ doesn't put them in the official timeline is concerning. I am waiting until we get 100% confirmation that those pre-D+ shows are still considered 616 canon.
Hopefully the Echo series and for sure the DD: Born Again series will answer it once and for all. If I were to hazard a guess at this point, I suspect we won't see Iron Fist again and that will cause alot of questions about the shows. But I do hope they keep as much of the shows being canon as possible.
Hope that helps. I don't think there is a firm answer at this point. Anyway, really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts. Thanks so much!
Yeah, I think I'll do a timeline video for the Netflix shows at some point. We may not get an official answer from Marvel for awhile regarding whether they are still canon, but I still loved them all (well, loved most and at least somewhat liked Iron First) and I think that laying them out in a timeline would be helpful.
@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks for the response! I'm not sure if you ever watched Luke Cage's final season, but at the end he takes over the Stokes business, leading to him becoming more corrupt of a person and less pure of heart as he was once seen. It may be nearly impossible logistically, but do you think it's possible to see him return in the Thunderbolts as sort of an anti-hero?
@@AbitofEverything4U That would be awesome! Love your videos, man.
I would love to see Luke Cage return and I agree that if they pick up on the storyline from the final season then he might well be an anti-hero at that point. I really enjoyed Luke Cage, even if his villains weren't that great.
For Endgame would you not also include 2014 Gamora as a villain who is on probation? She did attack the heroes which is villainous but then she left without helping either side
Good question. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I thought that 2023 Nebula attempted to urge her 2014 self to lay down her arms. Noting their shared memory network, 2014 Nebula couldn't fathom such a future with 2023's mindset. Gamora stood down to show good faith and appealed to her 2014 sister, but it was all in vain as 2014 Nebula aimed to shoot at Gamora. In reflex, 2023 Nebula shot 2014 Nebula through the cardiac region, killing her.
So, ultimately, that's why I listed 2014 Nebula as having a villainous death. Thoughts? Either way, I really appreciate you watching the video and sharing your theories. Love the dialogue with other MCU fans!
so many villains wish they didn’t kill some of these 😭
So painful. Well, maybe we get one last appearance by some of the best villains in Secret Wars. That would be sweet!
@@AbitofEverything4U that would
Hercules might become a hero
Yes, I am really hoping so. He will be a great addition to the MCU and perhaps the Avengers down the road. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@thetheorizermoore7476 I will indeed. Wishing you luck on your channels!
34:55 you forgot the B R I T I S H :P
I think I'm tracking with you. Do you mean the British were a villain in Ms. Marvel due to the Partition? If so, I agree. One of the things I liked the most about the Ms. Marvel series was learning about Muslim culture and history and in particular, learning about the tragedy of the Partition. I didn't know any of that history and I think it was very important for the show to take a deep dive into that very troubling and devastating event with the long lasting and tragic impact that it had. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your comments. Really appreciate it!
Please do the MCU state of villainy as phase 5 closes out.
Absolutely! I'll do a year end State of Villainy, as it's a great way to close out each calendar year.
Sounds awesome I would love that thank you for that information.
@@BlaizCattouseYou are most welcome. Should be alot of fun!
to everyone saying grandmaster is dead that cant be cause he looks alive in the one shot team daryl
I loved those one-shots! And it was great to see Daryl in Love and Thunder. He's clearly been doing fine after his roommates left him.
Thank you for adding white vision into this after you missed ( I’m not trying to be mean I am just happy you added white vision to the wandavsion)
Absolutely. That was an excellent catch. Thanks for pointing it out!
Your welcome
Also weren’t the people in abomination’s retreat reformed before we saw them (expect for wrecker he needed to be on the list)
@@Rockgem12 I was really torn with what to do with them. The fact that the were villains in the comics made me list them as such out of nostalgia, but I guess Man Bull did crash into Jen's car in a fight with El Aquilla so may be the fact that they were introduced as seeming sus is worth them being a villain at the start until we knew better as the episode went along?
Also when are we gonna get vol 3 like no rush just like idk if we should get one till after like new world order
I really dont think Alioth is dead, I doubt we'll see him anytime soon but I think he's still out there
Yes, I think you are probably right about that. I thought that since he was made of smoke, that when he dispersed it mean he was dead. But Sylvie charmed him, so I think you are right that it just put him to sleep (whatever sleep means for him). Excellent feedback! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
i thought midnight man was impaled by one of the javelins?
i guess we dont see the body but for the sake of the actor im assuming they had the character killed also i checked and it was one of moon knights throwable moons but we definitely hear him get stabbed and hurt
Yes, you nailed it with your reply. Midnight Man got hit with the throwable moon but we don't see him die. However, with the actor having passed away, I suspect we won't see him again, sadly.
All the characters from the 2012 timeline are probably dead aren't they?? In Loki, the first scene was the TVA taking Loki from the 2012 Universe and then pruning it, which would send the entire universe to that wasteland where Alioth was, right?
So even though Captain America returned to that specific point in time in the timeline and returned the stones, the entire world would have been pruned only a few moments afterwards in Loki's opening scene.
I'm not sure where you got the idea of the timelines popping back into place, but I don't think that would have happened. They haven't fixed all the inconsistencies from those timelines. For instance, in the 1960s (I think) timeline, they still stole Pym Particles from Hank. And the 2014 one lacks a Thanos, Nebula, Gamora, Chitauri & Black Order, which is a huge difference. The 2013 one is the only one that seems relatively unchanged, as Frigga accepts her death anyway, and the Aether is likely put back into Jane.
I'd imagine that at least the 2014 timeline would have been pruned like the 2012 timeline. Maybe the 1960s & 2013 ones too, but I'm not sure if those changes are big enough to authorize a pruning, considering that Sylvie's timeline wasn't pruned until quite a bit after she was told about her parentage and identified as a girl. EITHER WAY the main point is that the 2012 timeline at least was pruned, possibly the rest of them too.
Great comments. One thing I'll say up front is they left alot to the imagination in Endgame. I would pay a premium price if D+ would give us a special presentation showing Steve returning all of the infinity stones so we know what happened once and for all.
So on the 2012 branch, I always assumed that when Loki took off with the tesseract that he created a branch off the branch. It's like how the Watcher said that each decision can create a branch resulting in infinite realities. I could be wrong, but I assumed that when Steve returned the stones, that 2012 branch was still there and the TVA only pruned the new branch created by Loki. But again, I could be wrong.
However, the basic premise for the branches being clipped when the stones were returned comes from this exchange in Endgame:
Ancient One: “The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the stones, and that flow splits. Now this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branched reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be overrun. So tell me doctor, can your science prevent that?”
Bruce: “No, but we can erase it. Because once we’re done with stones, we can return each one to its own timeline at the moment it was taken. So, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.”
So Bruce said "erase it" which to me means that the stones are so special that they retroactively remove the branch that was created. I guess I could be misunderstanding the exchange, as they didn't really explain things very well in the movie. But anyway, that's where I got that idea. I did an entire video on time travel, which goes into this, if you want to check it out. But thanks so much for the comments. Gives me lots to consider!
@@AbitofEverything4U I see, that makes sense. That complicates the time travel / multiverse quite a bit, but it works. I'm actually gonna go check out the video now, since I thought I knew MCU time travel very well, but clearly I missed some bits.
@@Seraserastria Yeah, it is pretty confusing. Let me know what you think about the time travel video. It's hard to figure out off of the rules since Marvel has altered them abit here and there over time and also didn't explain them thoroughly in Endgame.
I kinda believe that if there are more Zola copies from 616 they aren’t just copies but was a hive mind also you missed a character for Endgame being 2012 Loki and 2013 Loki
Interesting theory on Zola. Would be alot of fun seeing him come back. And great catch on 2012 Loki. That was a miss. Since 2013 Loki was a much smaller role, I would likely just include 2012 Loki to reduce confusion, but I agree, 2012 Loki was a total miss. Great catch!
@@AbitofEverything4U thanks man
@@AbitofEverything4U oh and your content is great best MCU videos I know of
@@BlackShadow01-05 Thanks! Really appreciate the positive feedback!
Ikaris may not be dead. In the comics when he is disintegrated by the deviants he is physically reborn by way of a birthing pod. Very easily they could adapt that by making the consciousness of eternals exist on a celestial data cloud or something of the sort and having his physical being remade
Ah, very good point! I suspect that there is little chance he could have survived the sun's heat, but I hadn't considered them bringing back his consciousness from the data cloud. You may be right that he pulls a Zola and comes back again thanks to stored brain waves. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories!
@@AbitofEverything4U yeah whenever the eternals get reborn that way they have amnesia until something sets them straight. They could even use that to explain thena going sideways. If they say she was killed and resurrected without anyone else knowing
@@thatkidyouhategaming4023 Right! Will be interesting to see if they take that plot point from the comics!
I bet Marvel will watch your videos to sort themselves out since we have so many heroes and villains out there 👀
Hah ha! Now that would be funny. And perhaps we can get the Timeline Keeper to watch the timeline videos. Then we'd be getting somewhere!
@@AbitofEverything4U Definitely man! That guy needs to do some homework 📝
@@josinfleurs Indeed!
Namor on probation lol dude was cold blood killer.
IKR? Namor and Scarlet Witch both racked up a massive body count. They only barely get probation for seeming to turn away from the killing, but yeah, they were brutal!
Wouldn't William from Far From Home be a "returning villain" because he was in Iron Man 1?
Good point! I guess I didn't mark him that way as I didn't consider him a villain in Iron Man 1...but maybe he was a villain, since he was working with Stane and against Stark. I really like that thought!
@A bit of Everything Well I guess he wasn't very prominent in Iron Man 1 other than getting shouted at, lol. Fantastic vid, and I really love how you respond to every comment!
@@MagmaCalibur Too funny. Yes, his main role was a fantastic chewing out. Actually one of the best lines from Iron Man 1 as Stane rips him a new one. But I do like the idea of adding him in there for the next version of the video down the line. And yeah, love reading and responding to all the comments. So much great feedback from everyone!
Watching this video made me realize how much waste Marvel does to their villains 😢😢😢
IKR? Hate to see so many great villains gone in a one-and-done fashion!
I was hospitized for two days because of alcohol Poisoning. You called it A Bit of Everything
Oh my! That sounds terrible. I'm assuming you're okay now?
@@AbitofEverything4U glorious 🙌 loved the Thunderbolts every time . The drinking game worked to perfection
40:00 I don't think Icarus was reformed and he may NOT be dead.
Both are valid points. I guess I felt he reformed as he helped with the unimind, even though it went against everything he believed. He ultimately did it out of love for Sersi, and then sacrificed himself (or so it seems) due to how he felt so bad for going against his beliefs. So I look at him as being heroic because in the end, doing the right thing even if you don't want to do it is really heroic. As for if he died, I think that there is little chance he could have survived the sun's heat, but I agree, with Marvel anything is possible. So we may well see him again in Eternals 2. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your theories!
@@AbitofEverything4U I think I see how he can be heroic in the case.... Great and detailed video as always!!
@@NimN0ms Thanks for the positive feedback! And also thanks for your comments as it gives me lots to consider. Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts!
i rly liked karli morgenthau tho i was rly hoping her to turn into heroic
Yeah, if only she had been willing to trust Sam, I think they could have worked together to address the issues with the GRC. But in the end, she died fighting for what she believed in and she felt Sam couldn't help her achieve what she wanted. Tragic death, but a very cool character. Thanks so much watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate hearing what other MCU fans are thinking!
@@AbitofEverything4U i just started watching ur channel and your content is very interesting! i subscribed to watch them in the future if i had the time lmao
Thanks so much. I truly appreciate it. I'll try to keep the topics interesting and will look forward to your great feedback in the future1
Wait why is Alioth dead?
Oh drat, I forgot to add my theory behind that. After Sylvie's enchantment dispersed Alioth, that may have ended it for good, but I also assumed that when He Who Remains was killed, that finished off Alioth if it wasn't dead already. But I could very well be wrong on that. Thoughts? Really appreciate the dialogue. And thanks for watching!
I want to see a rebirth off Ikrais
It could happen in Eternals 2. You never know!
@@AbitofEverything4U true
In the comics when Ikaris is disintegrated by the deviants he is physically reborn by way of a birthing pod. Marvel very easily could adapt that by making the consciousness of eternals exist on a celestial data cloud or something of the sort and having his physical body being remade
Wouldn't Hawkeye count as a villian for Avengers Endgame
Interesting...he would probably fall in whatever classification we put the Punisher, as the Ronin was taking out the trash, but could be considered villainous in the way he was doing it. Great point!
I thought the collector died in infinity war or maybe I’m wrong
So that's been an open ended question for quite awhile, since we didn't see him die in Infinity War. We just saw the illusion of him in a cage that Thanos created, but when the illusion was dropped, there was no body. Then, in the recent Guardians Holiday Special we learn that they bought Knowhere from the Collector. For that to be possible, it means he must have survived Infinity War. My guess is that he gave up the stone to Thanos rather than being killed and that's how he survived. Pretty cool to get confirmation that he's still around and may return down the road.
If secret wars happens I hope they keep Evan Peters so Wanda gets her brother but I think he needs to go back to his universe in fact I think the fox xmen has changed the story off him you see a little girl he he’s with I think that was a little Wanda I don’t think he who remained wasn’t that evil
Interesting ideas. Secret Wars will be awesome!
I thought zola died in the 70’s transfer his body in a computer
He did die in the 70's...he didn't. His physical body died, but his mind was placed in the computer and he was the AI that powered project insight in CA: The Winter Solider. But then that AI was bombed in the movie, so he died for real after that.
@@AbitofEverything4U what’s funny the actor who plays zola is the same actor who plays dobby the house elf from Harry Potter so Zola became a house elf lol
@@TheDukeCountyGaBoy01 LOL! That's funny!
@@AbitofEverything4U it’s true he was dobby the house elf no wonder blocked Ron and Harry in the platform
Too funny!
You don’t see Harrows body!
Yep, I definitely broke my rule on that one. I guess he could show up again, but it's so hard to imagine that as much as Khonshu hated Harrow and Amit (who was trapped in Harrow) that he didn't kill him. I am assuming Marvel didn't want to show him getting executed. But you are definitely right that we don't see his body. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
I LOVED Ethan Hawke in that role, I’d love to somehow see him back 😂
And of course! I’m so glad I found your channel. The frequent, long form content is just what I’ve been looking for, and I really value your opinions on the MCU!
Yeah, I'd really love to see Harrow again. Such a great character. Moon Knight S1 wouldn't have been nearly as good w/o his chemistry with Marc/Stephen. And thanks for the kind feedback about the videos. I have alot of fun making them!
If US Agent is on Probation what is Punisher? lol
Excellent point! I think I'll need a full-on "anti-hero" status when we get Punisher. For me, the distinction between "on probation" vs. "anti-hero" is that on probation means they stopped being bad but need to prove they are made a full turn away from previous bad actions. Anti-hero means they have no issue with being bad, as long as it is only against bad people. Killing is of course wrong, but killing only people who are truly evil makes people like Punisher an anti-hero. It's what separates him from other vigilantes such as Daredevil, who beat the tar out of bad guys, but refused to take their life. Just my take on it, but I do suspect I'll need a new category as soon as Punisher shows up. Blade will fit in there, too. And the Jake personality of Moon Knight. Thoughts?
ribboned creature and alioth are alive wtf
Good questions...
So on Alioth, I guess I'm just assuming he died, which is probably a mistake. Sylvie enchanted him and he dispersed, but since he's a cloud based creature, I assumed dispersing him actually killed him. However, I am second guessing that now and you are probably correct.
As for Ribboned Creature...oof, I could have sworn Defender Strange killed him, but I checked again and that didn't happen. You are the first to mention that we didn't see it die, so you get the gold prize (or back in the early days of Marvel, the no-prize). Nice catch. I definitely got that one wrong.
Oh well, with over 160 villains, it makes sense I goof at least one up. Sigh.
Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Surtur well ain’t dead and we didn’t see hela body
Very fair points. Here are my thoughts on both.
Ragnarok is the foretold destruction of Asgard. So, after Surtur thrusts his blade straight thru Hela and deep into Asgard, it resulted in Asgard ultimately exploding as Thor and the others watched from afar. Korg's line was played for humor as it exploded, but it seemed to indicate that he and the others assumed Asgard was completely destroyed.
As for whether Surtur can die, earlier in the movie he stated "I cannot die. Not until I fulfill my destiny, and lay waste to your home." So that implies that he can die and assumed he would die when Asgard was destroyed. Also, his crown was his source of power and that was surely destroyed in the explosion, so if he is alive, he would just be floating in space with very weak powers and no ability to power up again.
And the regarding Hela, she likely was killed when Asgard exploded, but even if she didn't die, I do wonder if since she derived so much of her power from Asgard, then the fact that it was destroyed would end up weakening her to the point of not being a real threat anymore.
Thoughts? Thanks so much for watching the video and sharing your feedback. I really do appreciate it!