I would buy the Native Titan X 12.5 with a Xi3 and battery for about the same price as the Autopilot without battery. You have the best of both worlds with the motor plus the peddle drive at less than 5 grand. Add a 100 ah battery and your right at the price of the Old Town.
Native makes a transom mount that fits into the propel drive cutout for $90. Put an endura or Newport vessels trollling motor and your at 1/8th of the price of an xi3. Add in an autoboat gps system and you’re in $900 for everything that a $1400 gps xi3 does.
I have both the AP120 & 136. They are amazing boats. Very maneuverable and quit nimble for the size. Heading sensor is a must have upgrade if you’re fishing.
One thing it needs to be up to date is strong gear track on side rail behind seat. Kayak at that weight these days should be setup for landing gear. Good stuff Andy.
There’s a lot of exceptional and Quality innovative kayak on the market but in my opinion this is the best choice . The size weight and location of the most innovative and versatile motor is a genius combination. Buy the kayak, get a good lithium battery and your in kayak fishing heaven . I have this kayak and the 106 MK, it’s a great setup but the AP runs circles around it.
Even though it'll mean trailering, my next kayak is definitely going to be an Autopilot. Also, self draining scuppers plugs are quite underrated. I replaced all but two of my original plugs with them.
You make alot of good points. For me, a working class guy I can rig the boats you mention for far less than buying even a used OT Auto. One boat that has caught my eye is the USA made Crescent CK2 venture. Rigged with a SW XI3...still in the ballpark as the NUcanoe and Bonafide.
There are a few things I'd like to add. Again, I'm so glad you did an AP136 video. Other people have mentioned that the cup holders can't fullu drain so there's often some water in the bottom of the cupholders. Another complaint is the plastic gear tracks, and that one really bothers me. I THINK Yakattack makes an aluminum replacement that lines up with the existing holes, but you can't drop a cheap aluminim rail and not have to fill some holes and drill some new ones. That was just an odd choice, IMHO. The third complaint I've heard is the side storage where you have the remote tends to rub against the seat edge when opening and closing. Minor nitpick , IMHO. The battery box should come standard. Perhaps he changed it out to a larger onex but there should be a stock battery box. The Minn Kota gps puck on the rear is an add-on to allow a tighter spot-lock area. Of course, those noqua batteries installed under the hatch were add-ons as well. It also appears that he upgraded the trolling motor plug and receptacle as the stock ones seem to only last a year or two with moderate usage. Definitely a great deal. $2000 cheaper than a 2024 model. Before anyone saus "omg, lost almost half the value in 3 years", i believe they were around $3999 new in 2021. Inflation hit kayaks kinda hard.
Inflation sure did. Yeah the cup holders tend to be a magnet for water for sure. That and the lack of bow storage was the biggest complaint of the previous owner. He also liked to tinker so he said the value of the Bonafide PWR129 was just perfect for him.
Own a Autopilot 120. Has been a game changer for my fishing. Spot lock is great. I also love trolling for Walleye and Musky. Just wish it was a bit faster. Ps great channel!
Do you have any experience with customers putting a 2nd seat in the rear of the AP136? What are their experiences? Ive been looking at the AP136 and Nucanoe unlimited for a motorized kayak option and I like the idea of being able to take my wife every now and then if she wants to come.
Just personal opinion, I would do that. The Unlimited is going to be better for tandem and you can put a better trolling motor option on it as well. I only say that because the AP on comes with a 45lb thrust motor.
Love the idea but it’s slow and expensive. Great of you are focused on spot lock but if you want to cover big water then it’s a little slow for my liking. I personally can’t see me getting it over the unlimited with xi3.
I have a water snake it comes with my kayak from the factory it's 45 lb thrust and it move my 13.5ft kayak loaded with hella bunch tackle and my im 280 around 4mph
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Old Town stopped including the scupper plugs with the kayaks. Does the 106mk come with scupper plugs or do they have to be purchased separately? Also, in the two center scupper holes in the cockpit area, are those scupper valves upside down? They look different than the others. Thanks so much for doing this video!
I like the idea of the autopilot but went with the PDL instead. I would consider myself an inexperienced electronics angler and even just the plug and play of the AP was more than I wanted. That said this is 100% the kayak I would get for a motorized kayak. No need to mount or rig up your own power and motors. I think if they come out with a motor/pdl version later (not the epdl) it'd be great!
The AP is a bit more plug and play, but I feel like the Unlimited is better bang for the buck now. The AP MSRP's at $5k, I have $5k into my unlimited but that includes 2 BP Pros, 2 100aH Lifepo4's, 3 sets of lights, nav lights, 8 channel yak power switch, all the rigging accessories(wires, connectors, etc.), xi3 GPS w/ mounts, plus smaller ancillary accessories. Plus, the Unlimited has higher weight capacity.
Please understand that my information comes from RUclips videos and manufacturers sites, so if I'm wrong, please correct me. Nucanoe weight capacity is 650 pounds, 400 pounds for self-bailing, and the hull weight is 84 pounds. Whether that includes the seat or not is mostly moot because it's maybe 5 pounds. Subtracting the 84 pounds, gives you 566 pounds "max" capacity usable and I still don't know if the 84 pounds has to be subtracted from the 400 pound self-bailing capacity. The sportsman ap136 has a 660 pound max capacity. The usable capacity is 502 pounds (the boat, motor, seat, foot pegs, rudder, battery BOX, etc) are 158 pounds. Old Town doesn't list a "self-bailing" capacity, but to ME, it seems logical that if the deck can't self-bail, you're over the limit. If anyone has experience with what the "self-bailing" weight on the AP136 is, I'm all ears. So, thus far, using max capacity, unlimited wins by 64 pounds, BUT... add the battery box, rudder, power cables , foot steering, and a trolling motor (apples to apples), and that disparity drops (the AP motor console is 24 pounds). There is a slight advantage to the unlimited, unless the ap136 weight is "self-bailing capacity". I truly do not know, so I'm just pointing that distinction out if it matters. Now, let's talk price. $5k for the ap136, just add battery. The Unlimited is 1800msrp. Saltwater xi3 with GPS is 1550 (I round up the extra dollar for easy math, so I'll be off by $5 or so total), and you're at 3350. The "bow mount plug and play kit" is 275. That gets you the battery box, wiring, and connectors. Now we are at 3675. I don't know if the $100 quick release plate is also needed or if the motor comes with one already. There's $20 for the thru-hull wiring kit. Now we are at 3685. The qc rudder with foot steer is $400. You're at 4085 now. The price difference between the AP120 AND AP136 is $500, essentially for 18" of length. The Unlimited is 12" shorter, but 4" wider than the AP136, so I don't know if you add anything extra for the extra foot of length or not. However, what still stands out to me is that the AP136 hull is still close to 50 pounds heavier (subtracting motor). Even giving the wiring, rudder, and foot steering a small deduction, the ap136 hull is almost 50% heavier than the unlimited. Logic says there is close to 50% more HDPE in the ap136 vs the unlimited. That definitely costs money. So, in the end, not adding costs for more HDPE, extra length (though narrower), the AP136 is around $900 more similarly equipped. It is worth noting that the AP136 has a 45# thrust motor vs 55# thrust on the motorguide, so in theory, the motorguide should move either boat faster than the MinnKota. The point I'm trying to make is that the price difference isn't thousands of dollars. There are also pros to the Unlimited that the AP136 doesn't have. The Unlimited has more track by a longshot, the seat can be moved fore and aft, and the seat swivels 360 degrees. The Unlimited scares me as a first-time kayak buyer because it's a "blank canvas" and I'd rather have a "plug and play" system, BUT that's definitely a subjective opinion. Thanks for letting me ramble. It helps me think about these things.
@@fishingthemidsouth the Nucanoe capacity is a true weight cap. They do not do the usable capacity rating. Also the Bonafide PWR129 comes from the factory with foot controlled rudder at $1899 You really don't need a rudder with any of the motor setups but it does help. The AP is a great kayak but it needs some updating in my opinion to compete with the newer kayaks out there. A lot of people are trading these in for Unlimiteds and PWR129 do to the value these kayaks bring. This kayak in particular was traded in for the PWR129 I do have faith that OT will do the needed updates to justify the 5k price point. They are smart and know their market
@@fishingthemidsouth The 650lb capacity is all usable capacity(seat is not figured in) according to Nucanoe themselves. I myself am a large person and when I was doing my research previous to making the purchase I spoke to another larger guy(similar sized to me) who runs a AP136, he said he ran it with scupper plugs in as he didn't like the amount of water that would come up through the scupper holes as he motored around. The assumption you made about the amount of material used to manufacture the boat may be correct, but I can tell you from my own personal experience the hull on the Nucanoe is not thin at all and the drainage channels on the bottom of the boat utilize a ton of extra materials and add to the rigidity of the boat overall. The AP136 is a great rig though and was the only other option I was considering for a kayak, for me the customization ability and weight capacity were ultimately what made me choose the Unlimited. Both are great boats though.
So, just curious…… what would the rigging charges be to install an Xi3 on a Titan X 12.5 including the battery box, all connectors and wiring as well as deploy and retrieve mechanisms?
If you buy the motor and the kit from us then we install for free. We dont sell batteries since there are so many options out there for individual preferences.
Depends on what you're doing. Different kinds of kayak. I think the auto needs to be updated. 45lb thrust on a kayak for 4500-$5000 is not as much of a value in my opinion. The Titan X is the most modern kayak of the 2 foe sure They are both really quality made.
@@thebeardedpaddler which would you say is more stable and I fish open water here in the Texas Gulf Coast also my trips are quite a distance maybe 4 to 5 miles trips there and back. I’m stuck choosing between the two was thinking about mounting a Newport 180 on back of the titan and having motor capability’s and peddle for a little exercise but spot lock is what’s making it a tough choice for me.
Great kayak, but they're very slow. I put an Xi3 on my Native Slayer 12.5 and if I pedal with the motor I get 5.2 mph. I don't think an Autopilot can even reach 4 mph from what I've been told by guys I know who have them. That being said, the Autopilot is much more stable than my Slayer. It's all a tradeoff.
Its actually just a single layer poly blend. Not thicker than the reset of the kayaks out there. The rotomold process is pretty good with Old Town but honestly they dont do things that different than most other companies that rotomold kayaks. Some manufacturers will play around with the designs to keep the weights to a minimum as that is where the industry is going.
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I would buy the Native Titan X 12.5 with a Xi3 and battery for about the same price as the Autopilot without battery. You have the best of both worlds with the motor plus the peddle drive at less than 5 grand. Add a 100 ah battery and your right at the price of the Old Town.
It's a great value for sure. Thanks for watching!
Native makes a transom mount that fits into the propel drive cutout for $90. Put an endura or Newport vessels trollling motor and your at 1/8th of the price of an xi3. Add in an autoboat gps system and you’re in $900 for everything that a $1400 gps xi3 does.
Actually little more for the titan X and heavier and less cockpit room with pedals.
I have both the AP120 & 136. They are amazing boats. Very maneuverable and quit nimble for the size. Heading sensor is a must have upgrade if you’re fishing.
This guy that bought this kayak has both 120 and now 136 I believe
One thing it needs to be up to date is strong gear track on side rail behind seat. Kayak at that weight these days should be setup for landing gear. Good stuff Andy.
Not a bad idea
4th season with mine absolutely love it, pro out way the cons in the long run, always by your second kayak first
Yes! 100%
There’s a lot of exceptional and Quality innovative kayak on the market but in my opinion this is the best choice . The size weight and location of the most innovative and versatile motor is a genius combination. Buy the kayak, get a good lithium battery and your in kayak fishing heaven . I have this kayak and the 106 MK, it’s a great setup but the AP runs circles around it.
4th season in the AP136. Still love it. Aside from it being heavy, and the plug connections suck, its a beast of a fishing machine.
Glad to hear it!
Thanks for watching
Even though it'll mean trailering, my next kayak is definitely going to be an Autopilot. Also, self draining scuppers plugs are quite underrated. I replaced all but two of my original plugs with them.
Awesome man. Enjoy!
You make alot of good points. For me, a working class guy I can rig the boats you mention for far less than buying even a used OT Auto. One boat that has caught my eye is the USA made Crescent CK2 venture. Rigged with a SW XI3...still in the ballpark as the NUcanoe and Bonafide.
Watch that weight capacity with Crescent though. Be safe with it
There are a few things I'd like to add. Again, I'm so glad you did an AP136 video.
Other people have mentioned that the cup holders can't fullu drain so there's often some water in the bottom of the cupholders. Another complaint is the plastic gear tracks, and that one really bothers me. I THINK Yakattack makes an aluminum replacement that lines up with the existing holes, but you can't drop a cheap aluminim rail and not have to fill some holes and drill some new ones. That was just an odd choice, IMHO. The third complaint I've heard is the side storage where you have the remote tends to rub against the seat edge when opening and closing. Minor nitpick , IMHO.
The battery box should come standard. Perhaps he changed it out to a larger onex but there should be a stock battery box. The Minn Kota gps puck on the rear is an add-on to allow a tighter spot-lock area. Of course, those noqua batteries installed under the hatch were add-ons as well. It also appears that he upgraded the trolling motor plug and receptacle as the stock ones seem to only last a year or two with moderate usage.
Definitely a great deal. $2000 cheaper than a 2024 model. Before anyone saus "omg, lost almost half the value in 3 years", i believe they were around $3999 new in 2021. Inflation hit kayaks kinda hard.
Inflation sure did.
Yeah the cup holders tend to be a magnet for water for sure. That and the lack of bow storage was the biggest complaint of the previous owner. He also liked to tinker so he said the value of the Bonafide PWR129 was just perfect for him.
I’d buy one in a heartbeat!!!! That’s a good looking kayak.
Especially at that price!
@@thebeardedpaddler oh yeah…. I did buy it!!! 😂 Thanks for the great walk around on my new yak!!!
A negative with both AP models are the gear tracks and the cup holders with no drainage.
It does hold water.
Not to be petty but do I need to bilge out the cup holders? Seems like they should drain somewhere. Great review. Thanks
Facts
The cup holders definitely double as water retainers lol
Dang, I guess I better fill the mint jar on the coffee table to prepare for the grandkids!
Lol
Get started!
Own a Autopilot 120. Has been a game changer for my fishing. Spot lock is great. I also love trolling for Walleye and Musky. Just wish it was a bit faster. Ps great channel!
Thanks for watching
Yep, they aren’t particularly fast, but I do enjoy being able to enjoy a lazy 4mph ride somewhere when I’m tired 😂
Great job going through all the features. How are those batteries mounted on the rear hatch lid?
He had them strapped to the underside of the lid
@@thebeardedpaddler Thanks!
@@calvinjohnson9117 of course
Love my Ap120 but would love a 120 epdl at some point.
That would awesome
Do you have any experience with customers putting a 2nd seat in the rear of the AP136? What are their experiences? Ive been looking at the AP136 and Nucanoe unlimited for a motorized kayak option and I like the idea of being able to take my wife every now and then if she wants to come.
Just personal opinion, I would do that. The Unlimited is going to be better for tandem and you can put a better trolling motor option on it as well.
I only say that because the AP on comes with a 45lb thrust motor.
Love the idea but it’s slow and expensive. Great of you are focused on spot lock but if you want to cover big water then it’s a little slow for my liking.
I personally can’t see me getting it over the unlimited with xi3.
Nothing wrong with that
I have a water snake it comes with my kayak from the factory it's 45 lb thrust and it move my 13.5ft kayak loaded with hella bunch tackle and my im 280 around 4mph
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Old Town stopped including the scupper plugs with the kayaks. Does the 106mk come with scupper plugs or do they have to be purchased separately?
Also, in the two center scupper holes in the cockpit area, are those scupper valves upside down? They look different than the others. Thanks so much for doing this video!
That I'm not sure on. I'll check and get back with you. This is a lightly used unit that has some additions and mods.
I like the idea of the autopilot but went with the PDL instead. I would consider myself an inexperienced electronics angler and even just the plug and play of the AP was more than I wanted.
That said this is 100% the kayak I would get for a motorized kayak. No need to mount or rig up your own power and motors. I think if they come out with a motor/pdl version later (not the epdl) it'd be great!
I agree. The EPDL is a great idea but I'm not sure it's the best execution
The AP is a bit more plug and play, but I feel like the Unlimited is better bang for the buck now. The AP MSRP's at $5k, I have $5k into my unlimited but that includes 2 BP Pros, 2 100aH Lifepo4's, 3 sets of lights, nav lights, 8 channel yak power switch, all the rigging accessories(wires, connectors, etc.), xi3 GPS w/ mounts, plus smaller ancillary accessories. Plus, the Unlimited has higher weight capacity.
All very true. And now Bonafide coming out with the PWR129 also competes with the value of the Unlimited. More out there on the market now
Please understand that my information comes from RUclips videos and manufacturers sites, so if I'm wrong, please correct me.
Nucanoe weight capacity is 650 pounds, 400 pounds for self-bailing, and the hull weight is 84 pounds. Whether that includes the seat or not is mostly moot because it's maybe 5 pounds. Subtracting the 84 pounds, gives you 566 pounds "max" capacity usable and I still don't know if the 84 pounds has to be subtracted from the 400 pound self-bailing capacity.
The sportsman ap136 has a 660 pound max capacity. The usable capacity is 502 pounds (the boat, motor, seat, foot pegs, rudder, battery BOX, etc) are 158 pounds. Old Town doesn't list a "self-bailing" capacity, but to ME, it seems logical that if the deck can't self-bail, you're over the limit. If anyone has experience with what the "self-bailing" weight on the AP136 is, I'm all ears.
So, thus far, using max capacity, unlimited wins by 64 pounds, BUT... add the battery box, rudder, power cables , foot steering, and a trolling motor (apples to apples), and that disparity drops (the AP motor console is 24 pounds). There is a slight advantage to the unlimited, unless the ap136 weight is "self-bailing capacity". I truly do not know, so I'm just pointing that distinction out if it matters.
Now, let's talk price. $5k for the ap136, just add battery.
The Unlimited is 1800msrp. Saltwater xi3 with GPS is 1550 (I round up the extra dollar for easy math, so I'll be off by $5 or so total), and you're at 3350. The "bow mount plug and play kit" is 275. That gets you the battery box, wiring, and connectors. Now we are at 3675. I don't know if the $100 quick release plate is also needed or if the motor comes with one already. There's $20 for the thru-hull wiring kit. Now we are at 3685. The qc rudder with foot steer is $400. You're at 4085 now. The price difference between the AP120 AND AP136 is $500, essentially for 18" of length. The Unlimited is 12" shorter, but 4" wider than the AP136, so I don't know if you add anything extra for the extra foot of length or not. However, what still stands out to me is that the AP136 hull is still close to 50 pounds heavier (subtracting motor). Even giving the wiring, rudder, and foot steering a small deduction, the ap136 hull is almost 50% heavier than the unlimited. Logic says there is close to 50% more HDPE in the ap136 vs the unlimited. That definitely costs money.
So, in the end, not adding costs for more HDPE, extra length (though narrower), the AP136 is around $900 more similarly equipped. It is worth noting that the AP136 has a 45# thrust motor vs 55# thrust on the motorguide, so in theory, the motorguide should move either boat faster than the MinnKota.
The point I'm trying to make is that the price difference isn't thousands of dollars.
There are also pros to the Unlimited that the AP136 doesn't have. The Unlimited has more track by a longshot, the seat can be moved fore and aft, and the seat swivels 360 degrees.
The Unlimited scares me as a first-time kayak buyer because it's a "blank canvas" and I'd rather have a "plug and play" system, BUT that's definitely a subjective opinion.
Thanks for letting me ramble. It helps me think about these things.
@@fishingthemidsouth the Nucanoe capacity is a true weight cap. They do not do the usable capacity rating.
Also the Bonafide PWR129 comes from the factory with foot controlled rudder at $1899
You really don't need a rudder with any of the motor setups but it does help.
The AP is a great kayak but it needs some updating in my opinion to compete with the newer kayaks out there. A lot of people are trading these in for Unlimiteds and PWR129 do to the value these kayaks bring.
This kayak in particular was traded in for the PWR129
I do have faith that OT will do the needed updates to justify the 5k price point. They are smart and know their market
@@thebeardedpaddler Awesome! It's hard to keep track of which mfg does it which way. It's frustrating for consumers. I appreciate the correction.
@@fishingthemidsouth The 650lb capacity is all usable capacity(seat is not figured in) according to Nucanoe themselves. I myself am a large person and when I was doing my research previous to making the purchase I spoke to another larger guy(similar sized to me) who runs a AP136, he said he ran it with scupper plugs in as he didn't like the amount of water that would come up through the scupper holes as he motored around. The assumption you made about the amount of material used to manufacture the boat may be correct, but I can tell you from my own personal experience the hull on the Nucanoe is not thin at all and the drainage channels on the bottom of the boat utilize a ton of extra materials and add to the rigidity of the boat overall. The AP136 is a great rig though and was the only other option I was considering for a kayak, for me the customization ability and weight capacity were ultimately what made me choose the Unlimited. Both are great boats though.
So, just curious…… what would the rigging charges be to install an Xi3 on a Titan X 12.5 including the battery box, all connectors and wiring as well as deploy and retrieve mechanisms?
If you buy the motor and the kit from us then we install for free. We dont sell batteries since there are so many options out there for individual preferences.
Also, what are you asking for the used 136AP and what year is the hull?
Its a 2021 but is already sold
What’s better the autopilot or the new titan x 12.5
Depends on what you're doing. Different kinds of kayak. I think the auto needs to be updated. 45lb thrust on a kayak for 4500-$5000 is not as much of a value in my opinion. The Titan X is the most modern kayak of the 2 foe sure
They are both really quality made.
@@thebeardedpaddler which would you say is more stable and I fish open water here in the Texas Gulf Coast also my trips are quite a distance maybe 4 to 5 miles trips there and back. I’m stuck choosing between the two was thinking about mounting a Newport 180 on back of the titan and having motor capability’s and peddle for a little exercise but spot lock is what’s making it a tough choice for me.
@@SaltyWaterFishing nothing is more stable than the Titan X. I'd put money on that lol
@@thebeardedpaddler have you been on the auto pilot ?
@@SaltyWaterFishing yes I sell Old Town also
The Old Town kayaks are really nice. I can only imagine what the guy traded for.
Bonafide PWR129
@@thebeardedpaddler 👍 Understand
Great kayak, but they're very slow. I put an Xi3 on my Native Slayer 12.5 and if I pedal with the motor I get 5.2 mph. I don't think an Autopilot can even reach 4 mph from what I've been told by guys I know who have them. That being said, the Autopilot is much more stable than my Slayer. It's all a tradeoff.
I wiill buy with the knew model autopilot+ fora better deal
?
Definitely a nice ride but too slow for my tastes.
I hear ya
Love my auto pilot. Hate the weight..
Heavy for sure but this 136 is HUGE
The Old town longevity is better better built and solid hull design thicker plastic
Its actually just a single layer poly blend. Not thicker than the reset of the kayaks out there. The rotomold process is pretty good with Old Town but honestly they dont do things that different than most other companies that rotomold kayaks.
Some manufacturers will play around with the designs to keep the weights to a minimum as that is where the industry is going.