Thank you for this. I was abused and victim shamed. My parents never came around to facing their part in it. I found your words strengthening and validating.
As you probably know, you are not alone. Have known a few other ppl in the same situation w their parents who did not want to face the truth. Thank you for your comment🙏
That’s actually the problem… they take themselves THAT seriously. Indoctrination is very real, very deliberate, and very real. The picture was painted, the narrative was framed long before they ever had a chance to decide for themselves. Unfortunately, we usually spend the rest of our lives “undoctrinating” ourselves- if we even make it out at all. Rule #62: don’t take yourself so damn seriously.
They are systematically abused and brainwashed. They create male monsters and female victims. None of them think anything Gothard isn’t selling, sadly. Those who escape are very lucky and brave.♥️✌️
I grew up in IFB. Homeschooled, church on Sunday mornings, Sunday nights and Wednesday nights…and a lot of what she’s talking about is absolutely true.
I grew up in a church that expected us to go to church every single night for an hour weekdays. Two days of those were knocking on doors to "spread the word and gather souls for the church." We had church Sunday mornings and Evenings, and on Saturdays, there were often some "fun" activity at church where they usually sold something to eat. We had to give tithes monthly and in recent years that have become really important. In our country, this is a large church with millions of members countrywide. Women are only there to support their husbands. They do not want yo hear much from women. You speak through your husband. It took me many, many years to finally break free from the church, only because I was brainwashed since childhood that I will not go to heaven should I not participate in all activities or turn my back on this church. Our beliefs are not the same as the Mormons, but our back story has eery similarities to them. Our structure is also much the same. Our church started the same time and also believe it is the ancient and only church. Our Apostles get paid by the church, and all others are selected from the community and serve voluntarily. I shouldn't say my or our church because I've been done with them for many years. It is screwed up!
I grew up in a church that expected us to go to church every single night for an hour weekdays. Two days of those were knocking on doors to "spread the word and gather souls for the church." We had church Sunday mornings and Evenings, and on Saturdays, there were often some "fun" activity on church where they usually sold something to eat. We had to give tithes monthly and in recent years that have become really important. In our country, this is a large church with millions of members countrywide. Women are only there to support their husbands. They do not want yo hear much from women. You speak through your husband. It took me many, many years to finally break free from the church, only because I was brainwashed since childhood that I will not go to heaven should I not participate in all activities or turn my back on this church. Our beliefs are not the same as the Mormons, but our back story has eery similarities to them. Our structure is also much the same. Our church started the same time and also believe it is the ancient and only church. Our Apostles get paid by the church, and all others are selected from the community and serve voluntarily. I shouldn't say my or our church because I've been done with them for many years. It is screwed up!
She is so very well spoken. What a wise and honorable woman! I only wish I could have seen your faces in this interview. Lauren is one of the best journalists/interviewers out there.
Powerful video. I actually met Josh and shook his hand after a speech he gave for supporting single mothers. I think the Ashley Madison story broke within a few months. Initially, I felt sorry for him, but that was extremely short lived. When I heard about the CP and SA of his sister, I knew that he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Thank you.
@@kimberlyevers7031 Haha! Yes, obviously I mistyped and autocorrect changed my typo to “head.” I just edited because I hate typos. Had I known what a sicko Josh Duggar was, I definitely would’ve wanted to bang his head and cause other bodily injury to him! No, I am not a violent individual, but people who SA and harm children are a special kind of horrible and frankly they should never be let out. Having CP pictures and likely trading them shows me that he’s a true monster!
Tragedy is that if it had been reported when Josh first committed his crimes and gotten treatment he might not be in prison now. Family would have been exposed much earlier.
You are so right. One of the problems in these communities is that all the services are provided from each other so oftentimes “treatment” comes from people who reinforce the same ideology that brought about the toxic behavior in the first place. It’s really sad.
Agree. I ger so tired of people saying Josh was a bad seed like he was destined to be this way. If they got him help as a kid and didn't raise him the way they did, he would be a different person
Thank you Lauren. You have demonstrated once again why you are by far the best true crime interviewer. Using your authenticity and understanding, you are able to illicit the most in-depth insights from your guests. Much love to you and your family.
Such a good interview! I can truly relate to your guest bc I also grew up in an IBLP church (ages 12-21) and experienced much of the same teachings your guest did. If we wanted to serve in the church, we had to sign a document promising we would not smoke, drink, play cards, or dance. The youth pastor taught that rock music would lead to sex. Teen pregnancies were dealt with firmly; the girl apologized to the entire congregation on a Sunday morning (several of my friends did this). I can't remember a boy ever apologizing, though. When I had children years later, I, too, carried some of those teachings into my parenting. The lesson I have learned so far is "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Use critical thinking and wisdom to pick and choose from lessons you've been taught, whether from a church, grandmother, teacher, coach or parent. There are always snippets of lessons we can keep and use while discarding the rest. Grow in wisdom. At age 62 now, I can say I am still growing. If I can, you can too😊
I was just like Anna but I began to not only be a good Christian woman to think critically and yes I was shunned by my church and disowned from my entire family and lost my kids for almost 15 years. I pray she begins to think critically . Perhaps people will come into her life and May she “wipe the sand off her sandals “ and CHOOSE TRUTH!
About long hair--it is an energetic antenna of the body. Dr. Tsiga · LONG HAIR Traditionally, long hair was always a symbol of masculinity. All of history's great warriors had long hair, from the Greeks (who wrote odes to their heroes' hair) to the Nordic, from the American Indians (famous for their long shiny hair) to the Japanese. And the longer and beautiful the hair was, the more manly the warrior was considered. Vikings flaunted their braids and samurai wore their long hair as a symbol of their honor (they cut their braid when they lose honor). When a warrior was captured, his mane was cut to humiliate him, to take away his beauty. That custom resumed in what is today military service. There when new soldiers begin their training the first thing they do is cut their hair to undermine their self-esteem, make them submissive and make them see who's boss. The Romans were the ones who "invented" short hair so to speak, between the 1st and 5th centuries AD.. In battles they believed this gave them defensive advantages, since their opponents couldn't grab them by the hair. This also helped them to recognize each other in the battlefield. Short hair on men is a relatively new "invention" that has nothing to do with aesthetics. But today we often see men being humiliated, sometimes called "gay" for wearing long hair, not knowing that short hair is actually the "anti-masculine" and is a repressive social imposition, while long hair symbolizes freedom.
Still praying for your brother, Lauren, I hope he continues improving and that he's able to fully recover ❤ I also pray that you are able to get some rest soon, you've been going nonstop and you definitely deserve some relaxation with John and your little man! Stay healthy and safe travels as you're away from home!
I heard this on your Patreon and it is a good reminder of many things, some I do not understand because I come from a different background. Excellent interview, and guest. I think your audience is with you in support, Lauren. Positive thoughts and light are sent to you and your family💕
Girl please don’t ever feel like you have to apologize for putting your family first. We’ll all always be here when you get back. Healing ❤️🩹 energy for your brother and love, light, and good energy to you guys as well!❤️🔥
Fantastic podcast 🎉. These issues need to be addressed more, especially regarding our daughters. I taught my girl to never rely on a male; that she can do anything on her own. And to tell if anyone was inappropriate with her. Thank you for this talk 😊.
Children SA other children must have learned it from someone. Who exposed Josh to things like this at a young age? That person should also be held accountable. Josh was not sent to a facility, he was given hard labour on the guy's farm. I believe Josh is in the right place now. He would have had more victims.
At first I wasn't sure if I would like this interview or be able to relate to the subject. I was so excited to hear Michelle talk about how strong you can be and how much you are worth. She talks about loving your children fiercely. Fantastic interview.
What really makes me lose sympathy for Anna is how she was complicit in the Duggars' attempts to get Josh out of this by trying to frame someone else for the crimes
That was a powerful discussion. Thank you so much for sharing. I still find myself walking through all the backwards things I was taught as a little girl growing up in a fundamental, religious home. Listening to this podcast really helps put things into context to help me on that healing journey.
I want to offer a little bit of a correction about Baptist denominations. There used to be one main Baptist denomination in the US, but it split in the 1800s due to slavery. The Northern Baptists eventually became the American Baptist Churches USA. They are the more progressive group. The Southern Baptists became the Southern Baptist Convention of today. Both those groups are mainline Protestant but the American Baptists and Southern Baptists are separate groups. Then many independent Baptist churches split off the SBC because the SBC wasn’t conservative enough in their eyes. Obviously that is not the truth for all independent Baptist churches, but it’s true for the majority of churches that consider themselves part of the IFB movement. They are a movement and association based group, not a denomination. IFB pastors are beholden to no one except their deacon board and the congregation. IBLP is used by a variety of conservative Christians and some churches aligned themselves with the IBLP. But they aren’t exclusively used by conservative Baptist or IFB families, and not all IFB families would go near IBLP. Protestant is also the “umbrella” term used for mainline and evangelical Christian’s. If you’d like to know more, I highly recommend the channel Useful Charts-they have gone through and diligently tracked various denominational splits and how they relate to other Christian groups.
Yes! I don’t know anything about the independent baptists but thank you for clarifying about the American and southern Baptist part. She was incorrect about that.
I grew up Southern Baptist and never considered myself Protestant. To me being called Protestant is a relatively new thing for Baptists. Glad you cleared up the American Baptist thing bc I didn't think that was correct. Thx! And for the most part SBC pastors are beholden to no one not even the deacons or the congregation. Most do whatever they want! Now they say the deacons are not a decision making board so they put their friends in high places and they are the ones who support the pastor no matter what he does. I even visited one church that said deacons are not biblical so they just don't have any.
Thank you...I was raised all my childhood in the Southern Baptist denomination and had no idea about the differences. I considered anything not Jewish to be Christian and anything not Catholic to be Protestant. Not sure if that is correct....I'd have to do more research
Shellie's synopsis was so very well articulated. She said exactly what i felt is wrong w/ religious control of women but could not put into words. People are more than their body parts, sexuality is more. I appreciate this interview.
No apologies wanted or needed. Family is above anything! Prayers for your brother. 🙏Thank you for continuing to provide content for us through this time. 🙏
Dear Lauren and Dr John Your coverage of the Daybell Saga was phenomenal! Lauren your reports about this cult was stellar and Dr John, you are informative and insightful! I have told everyone I know about your podcasts and I am a faithful listener. Thank you!
I almost didn’t listen to this because I didn’t want to hear about this docuseries but I accidentally clicked and was quite surprised to find it was an interview.
Anna Duggar is not a victim. She actively participated in trying to influence witness testimony among people she knew trying to cover up Josh's crimes. She reaches out to tabloids to further her own narratives. She has watched and she knows how the media games are played. Anna may have come from this background of patriarchy but she actively advocated for her husband's innocence while simultaneously ignored the best interest of her children. In this cult, a wife can only demonstrate her loyalty is through supporting her husband in adversity. Anna participated in the cover-up. She has people who could help her leave. She doesn't want to leave bc she has support for her 7 children through her father in law. Katie Joy from Without a Crystal Ball has a great Insight through her sources.
Great episode. Something that did not get mentioned is that Anna's children will not always be children. They will be adults soon enough and as they move to adulthood they will have memories and see things clearly through their own minds. She will not be able to hold the family together unless she allows them to be interviewed by child psychologists and be evaluated for abuse.
Thank you for covering this case. In watching the Amazon expose, it looks very familiar to the church, I grew up in. I suffered through s.a. that my church tried to cover up and made my family's life hell. It was a very toxic environment, to grow up in. I feel so sorry, for these children, in this Gothard cult. Praying that these facts coming to light, will make widespread change. 🙏
Anna’s real tribulation will be when Josh is released. It’s possible that due to Josh’s conviction that he will not be permitted to live in a home with minor children. It will forever be a risk to the children, grandchildren, nieces, and family friends for him to EVER be alone with a child.
When it comes to Anna, since Josh isn't present, she is now under the authority of JB. Since that is what was taught to her. That is all she knows to do. A system that is based on demeaning women. And everything josh did is Annas fault in some twisted way. Really makes me question her parents watching this happen. Their grandbabies being caught in all this mess. It is tragic at best.
Oops, sorry. Anyway we lived north of Seattle, Washington. In 1983 or 1984 a friend and I came down to the Seattle coliseum to attend a course from "The Institute of Basic Youth Conflicts " I didn't realize what it was until I seen the special on Prime. I was absolutely mortified to learn how close I came to EVIL 😈 I can't remember why but we didn't finish the conference.
Anna is an adult, she should start standing up for her kids. Time to grow up and be a parent. Let Josh go to prison where his type will be taken care of. Her children at least won’t be ruined by Josh. Teach your girls to breathe fire ladies. Our power is our femininity.. we own what they want. It’s in our hands to protect that sacred gift. And to educate the young girls coming into themselves. We are the key to life, that’s powerful. Any man who abuses a baby, girl, or woman is nothing but a pathetic coward. Not worthy to live free amongst us.
I really had hoped that Anna would of left him by now! His children should not be around him whatsoever! He is a total demented SICKO, she needs to GTH away from him & NEVER LOOK BACK ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
I'd want to take a break too. The daybell Case is/was so complicated. So much thanks. I go back and forth with anna. Right now I feel bad for her she is a very sick woman with seven children. You can't be around that much abuse and feel okay and strong. I do feel the other way some days.
Lauren , now you KNOW WHAT I CAME FROM and why I accepted the man I did . I was from that sect of baptist. I sang with sandi Patti once before her fall from grace ( I was 15). Isn’t this just “something “.
With all due respect to your guest, some of her historical information regarding the splits with in the Baptist Church, what they mean and what the IFBC is, are not correct. That in no way diminishes her experience within the sect that she grew up in of course❤
Omg I love her so much!!! I relate so much to this. My mother is mentally ill & cult hops it’s all just so predatory. I hope all the homies out there are working on deconstruction ❤️
Oprah was supposed to have the Duggars on her show. Someone told Oprah about Josh and Oprah cancelled the Duggers and because of her all the tea about Josh came out. That’s probably why they don’t like Oprah.
As long as the religion of people is being discussed why isn’t there a conversation about the Muslim religion of which we all know their beliefs. There are millions of women who belong to the Muslim religion, they wear skirts and scarves, and have a certain place in their particular culture, as the males have their own roles. Why don’t we condemn all religions where women wear skirts, while we’re at it? Why are we judging people of certain faiths which you may not agree with or find offensive- we are a country of freedom of religion and anyone who breaks the law, no matter what their religion, should pay the consequences. There are plenty of people in all religions who do evil things, and I feel it’s wrong to associate and condemn people based on their religion which you may not like or just because the women wear skirts. If someone breaks the law, I don’t care what their religion is, but there is a disturbing trend going on in this country of painting with a wide brush, anyone who is associated with the same religion of someone who does an evil act. All people have the right in this country to believe what they want to believe.
Because the muslim belief is not the subject of this particular episode. Other than that, I do see your point very clearly!! It is clear to me that the focus worldwide is being placed on people and groups who believe in a creator… extremely disturbing for Americans who do believe in religious freedom for everyone…THAT is why Europeans came to settle on this continent in the first place. (If one can still find that amidst our ‘adjusted’ US history…) My apologies to Lauren if this comment is way off topic, but I wished to reply. Criminals and evildoers should be punished, period. These hideous predators are found in every walk of life and should be exposed whenever found; no exceptions!!
Please -when the guests being interviewed begin using legal terminology-it should be vetted and researched for accuracy - I am absolutely a fan and I have observed how important presenting accurate information appears to be in your broadcasts given that one of you is a former investigative reporter and the other is a forensic psychologist- as a practicing attorney I deal with legal jargon every day. So I believe I understood your guest Shellie to state that Josh's history of perpetuating sexual abuse against little girls would be a "mitigating" factor - that is inaccurate. A mitigating factor would be an event or circumstance in the accused life that might reduce the sentence of the accused, for instance if josh was a victim in his childhood of sexual abuse that might cause the fact finder to consider this when sentencing josh on the other hand an aggravating circumstance or factors consists past bad acts by the accused and any associated pattern that the fact finder might consider in imposing a harsher sentence-
This sentence is tragically SHORT. I think it would have been much more appropriate for Mr. Dugger to remain in custody until his youngest daughter is out of his target victim age!
She said she's with her brother and editing older shows and posted this one due to the Shiny Happy People documentary coming out or whatever they are calling this series.
People must understand the background of the state of Arkansas, they do not like to charge anyone with a sexual crime and it takes someone pushing the authorities to get to the bottom of why they will not prosecute these deplorable acts. First hand I know about the way LE acts. My daughter who was 12 yrs old was molested by her stepfather, I even had him on audio admitting it. When I took this to the police they refused to do a damn thing because she had turned 13. What??? I divorced and moved to get my daughter away from this area where he could come and go as he pleased... Thank God my daughter has no lasting effects from his crimes.... It is not so much the people as it is the laws.... they need to be changed...
Oh but she does, have lasting effects, and they last a lifetime! You don’t go through trauma like this without it impacting you on many levels. I hope your daughter has had counseling, it is so important! ❤
I’m not trying to be negative and you did everything right. But your daughter will have issues from that for the rest of her life. Working in childbirth, I’ve seen memories come back in the middle of labor. Out of nowhere. Some people said they hadn’t even remembered it until it was time to push. Some said, ‘But I was over that.’ The main thing is that you be there if it comes up again. I’m sure it’s a traumatic memory for you too. ❤
I went to a freewill Baptist church for many years until I moved away. All I ever heard preached or taught was God's love , mercy, grace. My girls wore what they had mostly pants . We wore our hair the way and length we all waited. I wore pants many times. So I dont believe you can put all baptist churches in the same box. Sorry you had to endure a church such as you attended
I have attended freewill baptist churches that were nothing like the IBLP bases Independent Baptist church I attended. It was a while ago since I was involved in any organized denomination, but my experiences with most Baptist churches were nothing like the one I described in the show. I did not want to paint with a broad brush. I know each denomination has different principles and standards they live by. My experience with freewill churches is that they were very grace based.
I grew up in a Missionary Baptist Church. We wore what we had, clean clothes, hair combed, SC shoes brushed, no one judged. We studied God word straight from the Bible. Our community was close and supportive. No "rules" about jeans or long hair, just love, charity, and the word of God.
I currently attend a Regular Baptist church. Gods Word, Love, Grace and the Gospel is preached, nothing like what is talked about on this show. We are in Los Angeles and no one cares what is worn or how short or long hair is.
Poor Anna was basically gifted to Josh as if she were a thing rather than a person. How sad is that 😞and now Anna is stuck living under jimbobs sick and controlling rules. Sooo 😔
I would like to say that these people have also failed their sons. All the children here are taught unrealistic ways of life. And yes, your children should breathe fire in the defense of themselves and their kids. These boys have slaves for wives, so they are also slaves. A chain has two ends. And because these particular people seemingly have not sa’d boys, does not mean it isn’t happening.
these cults are so scary yet so interesting to learn about baptized catholic as an infant became born again Christian aged 12 older cousins on my dads side had attended Parkway Christian academy then both had chosen to attend public high school at East Boston High from which they graduated in 1998 and 2002 Respectively had I not repeated 9th grade I'd have graduated HS in 2003 as I'm a few months younger than the younger of those two cousins. she got her driver's license in April 2001 a few months before I'd have gotten mine if I wasn't legally blind
I think we should be careful with judging Anna just because some of us may be able to critically think that doesn't mean Anna is she could be indoctrinated in brainwashed to a point where she doesn't even know how to critically think or even what critically thinking is. Maybe your interviewee here I had a chance to experience even a little bit of the real world than her life but let's work under the assumption that Anna did not and does not and has not ever had any real-world experience whatsoever. She doesn't know that what she's doing is wrong by not letting her kids be interviewed and she thinks that she's doing everything right and she thinks that is critical thinking. I just don't think it's fair that any of us compare anybody else to ourselves when we are all extremely fundamentally different no matter what, we can almost think of Anna as an innocent child who's never been given the tools and experience to live her own adult life as most people are or at least we should be teaching our children the tools to one day live on their own and be good people good citizens hard workers educated and think critically. Anna's just not
I have a problem with Anna not going to her brothers house if he was offering to take them all in. What is her reasoning behind that. Unless he's a pedo too and she knows if.
I love your channel, thank you so much for sharing the info….I wish I could afford $33 per month to continue e following you darn it, really good content thank you so much for the post 💝
Thank you for this. I was abused and victim shamed. My parents never came around to facing their part in it. I found your words strengthening and validating.
As you probably know, you are not alone. Have known a few other ppl in the same situation w their parents who did not want to face the truth. Thank you for your comment🙏
The idea that something as innocuous as a HAIRCUT can be "demonic" is UNHINGED. How do these people take themselves seriously???
The higher the hair, the closer to God.
I find it very ironic that the historic image of Jesus wouldn’t be accepted within many of these congregations.
That’s actually the problem… they take themselves THAT seriously. Indoctrination is very real, very deliberate, and very real. The picture was painted, the narrative was framed long before they ever had a chance to decide for themselves. Unfortunately, we usually spend the rest of our lives “undoctrinating” ourselves- if we even make it out at all. Rule #62: don’t take yourself so damn seriously.
So they emphasize outward appearance over inward. It is just hair.
They are systematically abused and brainwashed. They create male monsters and female victims. None of them think anything Gothard isn’t selling, sadly. Those who escape are very lucky and brave.♥️✌️
I grew up in IFB. Homeschooled, church on Sunday mornings, Sunday nights and Wednesday nights…and a lot of what she’s talking about is absolutely true.
I’m really sorry about any trauma you experienced during that time. 💜
I grew up in a church that expected us to go to church every single night for an hour weekdays. Two days of those were knocking on doors to "spread the word and gather souls for the church." We had church Sunday mornings and Evenings, and on Saturdays, there were often some "fun" activity at church where they usually sold something to eat. We had to give tithes monthly and in recent years that have become really important. In our country, this is a large church with millions of members countrywide. Women are only there to support their husbands. They do not want yo hear much from women. You speak through your husband. It took me many, many years to finally break free from the church, only because I was brainwashed since childhood that I will not go to heaven should I not participate in all activities or turn my back on this church. Our beliefs are not the same as the Mormons, but our back story has eery similarities to them. Our structure is also much the same. Our church started the same time and also believe it is the ancient and only church. Our Apostles get paid by the church, and all others are selected from the community and serve voluntarily. I shouldn't say my or our church because I've been done with them for many years. It is screwed up!
I grew up in a church that expected us to go to church every single night for an hour weekdays. Two days of those were knocking on doors to "spread the word and gather souls for the church." We had church Sunday mornings and Evenings, and on Saturdays, there were often some "fun" activity on church where they usually sold something to eat. We had to give tithes monthly and in recent years that have become really important. In our country, this is a large church with millions of members countrywide. Women are only there to support their husbands. They do not want yo hear much from women. You speak through your husband. It took me many, many years to finally break free from the church, only because I was brainwashed since childhood that I will not go to heaven should I not participate in all activities or turn my back on this church. Our beliefs are not the same as the Mormons, but our back story has eery similarities to them. Our structure is also much the same. Our church started the same time and also believe it is the ancient and only church. Our Apostles get paid by the church, and all others are selected from the community and serve voluntarily. I shouldn't say my or our church because I've been done with them for many years. It is screwed up!
Never apologize for being with family. It’s what matters most. Prayers for your brother and your family. God bless 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
She is so very well spoken. What a wise and honorable woman! I only wish I could have seen your faces in this interview.
Lauren is one of the best journalists/interviewers out there.
Lauren really is a great journalist and fantastic interviewer!
Thanks for such kind words. 💖
Powerful video. I actually met Josh and shook his hand after a speech he gave for supporting single mothers. I think the Ashley Madison story broke within a few months. Initially, I felt sorry for him, but that was extremely short lived. When I heard about the CP and SA of his sister, I knew that he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Thank you.
I wish you had banged his head hard while you were at it. lol...That was a funny typo. freudian slip...
@@kimberlyevers7031 Haha! Yes, obviously I mistyped and autocorrect changed my typo to “head.” I just edited because I hate typos. Had I known what a sicko Josh Duggar was, I definitely would’ve wanted to bang his head and cause other bodily injury to him! No, I am not a violent individual, but people who SA and harm children are a special kind of horrible and frankly they should never be let out. Having CP pictures and likely trading them shows me that he’s a true monster!
Tragedy is that if it had been reported when Josh first committed his crimes and gotten treatment he might not be in prison now. Family would have been exposed much earlier.
You are so right.
One of the problems in these communities is that all the services are provided from each other so oftentimes “treatment” comes from people who reinforce the same ideology that brought about the toxic behavior in the first place. It’s really sad.
Agree. I ger so tired of people saying Josh was a bad seed like he was destined to be this way. If they got him help as a kid and didn't raise him the way they did, he would be a different person
Not to mention the victims being made to do that one interview to save face for the family.
"Treatment?" There is no treatment for this type of shit. It's incurable. Deserves no accommodation.
@@littlewhitecrow9159 actually, treatment for kids who SO has been found to work
This was a wonderful interview. I wish I had the internet 50yr ago. I wouldn't have felt so broken.
Thank you Lauren. You have demonstrated once again why you are by far the best true crime interviewer. Using your authenticity and understanding, you are able to illicit the most in-depth insights from your guests. Much love to you and your family.
Such a good interview! I can truly relate to your guest bc I also grew up in an IBLP church (ages 12-21) and experienced much of the same teachings your guest did.
If we wanted to serve in the church, we had to sign a document promising we would not smoke, drink, play cards, or dance. The youth pastor taught that rock music would lead to sex. Teen pregnancies were dealt with firmly; the girl apologized to the entire congregation on a Sunday morning (several of my friends did this). I can't remember a boy ever apologizing, though.
When I had children years later, I, too, carried some of those teachings into my parenting.
The lesson I have learned so far is "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Use critical thinking and wisdom to pick and choose from lessons you've been taught, whether from a church, grandmother, teacher, coach or parent. There are always snippets of lessons we can keep and use while discarding the rest. Grow in wisdom.
At age 62 now, I can say I am still growing. If I can, you can too😊
You will continue to grow til you die if you allow yourself. Things make more sense, others less sense, with time and experience.
I was just like Anna but I began to not only be a good Christian woman to think critically and yes I was shunned by my church and disowned from my entire family and lost my kids for almost 15 years.
I pray she begins to think critically . Perhaps people will come into her life and May she “wipe the sand off her sandals “ and CHOOSE TRUTH!
This episode was so spot on.
Seriously Lauren I’m here for you if you ever need a resource !
About long hair--it is an energetic antenna of the body.
Dr. Tsiga
·
LONG HAIR
Traditionally, long hair was always a symbol of masculinity. All of history's great warriors had long hair, from the Greeks (who wrote odes to their heroes' hair) to the Nordic, from the American Indians (famous for their long shiny hair) to the Japanese. And the longer and beautiful the hair was, the more manly the warrior was considered. Vikings flaunted their braids and samurai wore their long hair as a symbol of their honor (they cut their braid when they lose honor).
When a warrior was captured, his mane was cut to humiliate him, to take away his beauty. That custom resumed in what is today military service. There when new soldiers begin their training the first thing they do is cut their hair to undermine their self-esteem, make them submissive and make them see who's boss.
The Romans were the ones who "invented" short hair so to speak, between the 1st and 5th centuries AD.. In battles they believed this gave them defensive advantages, since their opponents couldn't grab them by the hair. This also helped them to recognize each other in the battlefield.
Short hair on men is a relatively new "invention" that has nothing to do with aesthetics.
But today we often see men being humiliated, sometimes called "gay" for wearing long hair, not knowing that short hair is actually the "anti-masculine" and is a repressive social imposition, while long hair symbolizes freedom.
Great information! Thanks.
You are absolutely correct 👍
Still praying for your brother, Lauren, I hope he continues improving and that he's able to fully recover ❤ I also pray that you are able to get some rest soon, you've been going nonstop and you definitely deserve some relaxation with John and your little man! Stay healthy and safe travels as you're away from home!
Praying for your brother and all of the family! Never apologize for putting family first! ❤️🙏❤️
Amazing work Lauren, your guest was incredibly insightful and powerful.
I heard this on your Patreon and it is a good reminder of many things, some I do not understand because I come from a different background. Excellent interview, and guest.
I think your audience is with you in support, Lauren. Positive thoughts and light are sent to you and your family💕
One of the most interesting podcasts I've ever listened to. Thanks for re-posting this.
Thank you Lauren. Best wishes and healing prayers for your whole family
Girl please don’t ever feel like you have to apologize for putting your family first. We’ll all always be here when you get back. Healing ❤️🩹 energy for your brother and love, light, and good energy to you guys as well!❤️🔥
Fantastic podcast 🎉. These issues need to be addressed more, especially regarding our daughters. I taught my girl to never rely on a male; that she can do anything on her own. And to tell if anyone was inappropriate with her. Thank you for this talk 😊.
I have two daughters and did the same! They are my crown.
Children SA other children must have learned it from someone. Who exposed Josh to things like this at a young age? That person should also be held accountable. Josh was not sent to a facility, he was given hard labour on the guy's farm. I believe Josh is in the right place now. He would have had more victims.
Yes. I agree! There should be more accountability all the way around.
At first I wasn't sure if I would like this interview or be able to relate to the subject. I was so excited to hear Michelle talk about how strong you can be and how much you are worth. She talks about loving your children fiercely. Fantastic interview.
Thank you I'll pass on this video. Michelle is a nutcase so is Jim Bob & they both couldn't be creepier.
What really makes me lose sympathy for Anna is how she was complicit in the Duggars' attempts to get Josh out of this by trying to frame someone else for the crimes
Look at her face in the picture. She suffers everyday, all day. It’s so disgusting.
That was a powerful discussion.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I still find myself walking through all the backwards things I was taught as a little girl growing up in a fundamental, religious home.
Listening to this podcast really helps put things into context to help me on that healing journey.
I want to offer a little bit of a correction about Baptist denominations. There used to be one main Baptist denomination in the US, but it split in the 1800s due to slavery. The Northern Baptists eventually became the American Baptist Churches USA. They are the more progressive group. The Southern Baptists became the Southern Baptist Convention of today. Both those groups are mainline Protestant but the American Baptists and Southern Baptists are separate groups. Then many independent Baptist churches split off the SBC because the SBC wasn’t conservative enough in their eyes. Obviously that is not the truth for all independent Baptist churches, but it’s true for the majority of churches that consider themselves part of the IFB movement. They are a movement and association based group, not a denomination. IFB pastors are beholden to no one except their deacon board and the congregation. IBLP is used by a variety of conservative Christians and some churches aligned themselves with the IBLP. But they aren’t exclusively used by conservative Baptist or IFB families, and not all IFB families would go near IBLP.
Protestant is also the “umbrella” term used for mainline and evangelical Christian’s. If you’d like to know more, I highly recommend the channel Useful Charts-they have gone through and diligently tracked various denominational splits and how they relate to other Christian groups.
Yes! I don’t know anything about the independent baptists but thank you for clarifying about the American and southern Baptist part. She was incorrect about that.
I grew up Southern Baptist and never considered myself Protestant. To me being called Protestant is a relatively new thing for Baptists. Glad you cleared up the American Baptist thing bc I didn't think that was correct. Thx! And for the most part SBC pastors are beholden to no one not even the deacons or the congregation. Most do whatever they want! Now they say the deacons are not a decision making board so they put their friends in high places and they are the ones who support the pastor no matter what he does. I even visited one church that said deacons are not biblical so they just don't have any.
Useful Charts is an excellent channel - so much information, concisely explained.
Thank you for that information
Thank you...I was raised all my childhood in the Southern Baptist denomination and had no idea about the differences. I considered anything not Jewish to be Christian and anything not Catholic to be Protestant. Not sure if that is correct....I'd have to do more research
Bless you both for your bravery in bringing darkness to light and educating us all
Lauren fantastic interview. It was really thought provoking. Thank you
Thank you for sharing. Shellie is wise and articulate!
Shellie's synopsis was so very well articulated. She said exactly what i felt is wrong w/ religious control of women but could not put into words. People are more than their body parts, sexuality is more. I appreciate this interview.
No apologies wanted or needed. Family is above anything! Prayers for your brother. 🙏Thank you for continuing to provide content for us through this time. 🙏
Shellie regarding the children, "Their real Father freed them, by locking away their false one . . . " ~ Amen!
Great interview - thank you, Lauren. 😇
Teach your daughters to breathe fire! 👍🔥🔥
Always!
And, not just breathe it in.
Dear Lauren and Dr John
Your coverage of the Daybell Saga was phenomenal! Lauren your reports about this cult was stellar and Dr John, you are informative and insightful! I have told everyone I know about your podcasts and I am a faithful listener. Thank you!
Wow, thank you!
So glad you are covering this!
Thank you for a consistently excellent podcast.
I almost didn’t listen to this because I didn’t want to hear about this docuseries but I accidentally clicked and was quite surprised to find it was an interview.
Everything else is in pencil-- YES!!! Thank you Lauren and Shellie. ❤
Enjoyed this very
Informative
Anna Duggar is not a victim. She actively participated in trying to influence witness testimony among people she knew trying to cover up Josh's crimes. She reaches out to tabloids to further her own narratives. She has watched and she knows how the media games are played. Anna may have come from this background of patriarchy but she actively advocated for her husband's innocence while simultaneously ignored the best interest of her children. In this cult, a wife can only demonstrate her loyalty is through supporting her husband in adversity. Anna participated in the cover-up. She has people who could help her leave. She doesn't want to leave bc she has support for her 7 children through her father in law. Katie Joy from Without a Crystal Ball has a great Insight through her sources.
Wow!! Just wow! Brilliant interview.
Great episode. Something that did not get mentioned is that Anna's children will not always be children. They will be adults soon enough and as they move to adulthood they will have memories and see things clearly through their own minds. She will not be able to hold the family together unless she allows them to be interviewed by child psychologists and be evaluated for abuse.
Thank you for covering this case. In watching the Amazon expose, it looks very familiar to the church, I grew up in.
I suffered through s.a. that my church tried to cover up and made my family's life hell.
It was a very toxic environment, to grow up in. I feel so sorry, for these children, in this Gothard cult.
Praying that these facts coming to light, will make widespread change. 🙏
Anna’s real tribulation will be when Josh is released. It’s possible that due to Josh’s conviction that he will not be permitted to live in a home with minor children. It will forever be a risk to the children, grandchildren, nieces, and family friends for him to EVER be alone with a child.
I wonder if he's in general pop in prison.
Did he have to register as a sex offender?
@@Terry-lh8cn “they” will take care of him there if he is in general population. “They” don’t like child molesters!!
Just watched happy shiney people. The last few years of make more sense now. This is really very concerning 😤
You’re so close to 100k! 🎉🎉🎉
So close!❤
Family first always. We're here when you and/or Dr. Babe can jump on🙏
this should be a lesson to all in those groups, educate your daughters, give them work experience. Just incase they need to stand on their own 2 feet.
I would think a dress would be easier accessible. How crazy is this😡
When it comes to Anna, since Josh isn't present, she is now under the authority of JB. Since that is what was taught to her. That is all she knows to do.
A system that is based on demeaning women.
And everything josh did is Annas fault in some twisted way.
Really makes me question her parents watching this happen. Their grandbabies being caught in all this mess. It is tragic at best.
How can we help Anna?
I wonder if the larger Duggar family is supporting Anna financially and another reason why Anna stands by him
First time to your channel. Liked and subscribed. Prayers for your brother t❤️🙏
Oops, sorry. Anyway we lived north of Seattle, Washington. In 1983 or 1984 a friend and I came down to the Seattle coliseum to attend a course from "The Institute of Basic Youth Conflicts "
I didn't realize what it was until I seen the special on Prime. I was absolutely mortified to learn how close I came to EVIL 😈 I can't remember why but we didn't finish the conference.
You dodged a bullet. Angels must have been watching out for you
Excellent interview.
Anna is an adult, she should start standing up for her kids. Time to grow up and be a parent. Let Josh go to prison where his type will be taken care of. Her children at least won’t be ruined by Josh. Teach your girls to breathe fire ladies. Our power is our femininity.. we own what they want. It’s in our hands to protect that sacred gift. And to educate the young girls coming into themselves. We are the key to life, that’s powerful. Any man who abuses a baby, girl, or woman is nothing but a pathetic coward. Not worthy to live free amongst us.
Prayer for your brother🙏
I really had hoped that Anna would of left him by now! His children should not be around him whatsoever! He is a total demented SICKO, she needs to GTH away from him & NEVER LOOK BACK ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
I don't think she will ever leave. Sad for the kids
And if she doesn’t leave him, the courts should take the children from her to protect them from him!!
@Janna Driver I think he SA his kids already, and she did nothing. They won't tell. Maybe, when they are adults and break away, they will
I don’t I understand why she don’t leave him, with what he did, God wouldn’t think she broke marriage vow by leaving him
@@merricat3025 why do you think he already SA them? Was there evidence to that in the trial?
Outrageous beliefs! I will never understand how people get sucked into believing this stuff.
I'd want to take a break too. The daybell Case is/was so complicated. So much thanks. I go back and forth with anna. Right now I feel bad for her she is a very sick woman with seven children. You can't be around that much abuse and feel okay and strong. I do feel the other way some days.
Lauren , now you KNOW WHAT I CAME FROM and why I accepted the man I did . I was from that sect of baptist. I sang with sandi Patti once before her fall from grace ( I was 15). Isn’t this just “something “.
Wow!
Very disturbing and sad
I love this interview. We have to start naming sexism as a sin.
You deserve a bit of time with your people. Take care!
Wishing speedy recovery for your brother
New to your channel. Saw you on Annie’s channel. Just watched and wanted to check you guys out! 🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋
Praying for you and your family, hope your brother is doing better
As a mother, Anna should have put her children FIRST, that is my opinion, does she know if Josh did something to them?
Guessing she knows, but downplays it like Jim Bob did.
Wow! She is an amazing woman and true reflection of a woman of GOD!!
Agreed, Shellie is awesome. Super smart woman 😊🎉
The show should have been called...SLIMEY HAPPY PEOPLE 😊
I hope he can never be alone with his kids.
There's no way I can watch "Shiny Happy People" because the Duggars creep me out.
I hope you give it a watch. Jill is in it. It is a lot about IBLP that Duggars followed.
@@merricat3025 That creeps me out, too.
With all due respect to your guest, some of her historical information regarding the splits with in the Baptist Church, what they mean and what the IFBC is, are not correct. That in no way diminishes her experience within the sect that she grew up in of course❤
Prayers to your brother & to his family!🌹
Omg I love her so much!!! I relate so much to this. My mother is mentally ill & cult hops it’s all just so predatory.
I hope all the homies out there are working on deconstruction ❤️
Oprah was supposed to have the Duggars on her show. Someone told Oprah about Josh and Oprah cancelled the Duggers and because of her all the tea about Josh came out. That’s probably why they don’t like Oprah.
She really believes he is innocent even after he openly admitted he was using pornography.
The family has insisted it was a political setup. 🙄
⭐️Please share this video anywhere you see people discussing Shiny Happy People or the IBLP. ⭐️
Listening from Lithuania…on vacation, and just had to have my hidden true crime fix
As long as the religion of people is being discussed why isn’t there a conversation about the Muslim religion of which we all know their beliefs. There are millions of women who belong to the Muslim religion, they wear skirts and scarves, and have a certain place in their particular culture, as the males have their own roles. Why don’t we condemn all religions where women wear skirts, while we’re at it? Why are we judging people of certain faiths which you may not agree with or find offensive- we are a country of freedom of religion and anyone who breaks the law, no matter what their religion, should pay the consequences. There are plenty of people in all religions who do evil things, and I feel it’s wrong to associate and condemn people based on their religion which you may not like or just because the women wear skirts. If someone breaks the law, I don’t care what their religion is, but there is a disturbing trend going on in this country of painting with a wide brush, anyone who is associated with the same religion of someone who does an evil act. All people have the right in this country to believe what they want to believe.
Because the muslim belief is not the subject of this particular episode. Other than that, I do see your point very clearly!! It is clear to me that the focus worldwide is being placed on people and groups who believe in a creator… extremely disturbing for Americans who do believe in religious freedom for everyone…THAT is why Europeans came to settle on this continent in the first place. (If one can still find that amidst our ‘adjusted’ US history…)
My apologies to Lauren if this comment is way off topic, but I wished to reply. Criminals and evildoers should be punished, period. These hideous predators are found in every walk of life and should be exposed whenever found; no exceptions!!
Please -when the guests being interviewed begin using legal terminology-it should be vetted and researched for accuracy - I am absolutely a fan and I have observed how important presenting accurate information appears to be in your broadcasts given that one of you is a former investigative reporter and the other is a forensic psychologist- as a practicing attorney I deal with legal jargon every day. So I believe I understood your guest Shellie to state that Josh's history of perpetuating sexual abuse against little girls would be a "mitigating" factor - that is inaccurate. A mitigating factor would be an event or circumstance in the accused life that might reduce the sentence of the accused, for instance if josh was a victim in his childhood of sexual abuse that might cause the fact finder to consider this when sentencing josh on the other hand an aggravating circumstance or factors consists past bad acts by the accused and any associated pattern that the fact finder might consider in imposing a harsher sentence-
This sentence is tragically SHORT. I think it would have been much more appropriate for Mr. Dugger to remain in custody until his youngest daughter is out of his target victim age!
Oh! How old is this tape? He’s been in prison about 8 mo.
She said she's with her brother and editing older shows and posted this one due to the Shiny Happy People documentary coming out or whatever they are calling this series.
It says right on the one and only visual for this that it was from Dec 2021.
Just an fyi, the duggars did have 20 kids but one passed away.
People must understand the background of the state of Arkansas, they do not like to charge anyone with a sexual crime and it takes someone pushing the authorities to get to the bottom of why they will not prosecute these deplorable acts. First hand I know about the way LE acts. My daughter who was 12 yrs old was molested by her stepfather, I even had him on audio admitting it. When I took this to the police they refused to do a damn thing because she had turned 13. What??? I divorced and moved to get my daughter away from this area where he could come and go as he pleased... Thank God my daughter has no lasting effects from his crimes.... It is not so much the people as it is the laws.... they need to be changed...
Oh but she does, have lasting effects, and they last a lifetime! You don’t go through trauma like this without it impacting you on many levels. I hope your daughter has had counseling, it is so important! ❤
I’m not trying to be negative and you did everything right. But your daughter will have issues from that for the rest of her life. Working in childbirth, I’ve seen memories come back in the middle of labor. Out of nowhere. Some people said they hadn’t even remembered it until it was time to push. Some said, ‘But I was over that.’ The main thing is that you be there if it comes up again. I’m sure it’s a traumatic memory for you too. ❤
How awful to be a baby factory. What do these men think - pregnancy and childbirth is a walk in the park?!!!
Sending prayers for your brother.....
Miss you guys!
I went to a freewill Baptist church for many years until I moved away. All I ever heard preached or taught was God's love , mercy, grace. My girls wore what they had mostly pants . We wore our hair the way and length we all waited. I wore pants many times. So I dont believe you can put all baptist churches in the same box. Sorry you had to endure a church such as you attended
I have attended freewill baptist churches that were nothing like the IBLP bases Independent Baptist church I attended. It was a while ago since I was involved in any organized denomination, but my experiences with most Baptist churches were nothing like the one I described in the show. I did not want to paint with a broad brush. I know each denomination has different principles and standards they live by. My experience with freewill churches is that they were very grace based.
I grew up in a Missionary Baptist Church. We wore what we had, clean clothes, hair combed, SC shoes brushed, no one judged. We studied God word straight from the Bible. Our community was close and supportive. No "rules" about jeans or long hair, just love, charity, and the word of God.
I currently attend a Regular Baptist church. Gods Word, Love, Grace and the Gospel is preached, nothing like what is talked about on this show. We are in Los Angeles and no one cares what is worn or how short or long hair is.
The phrase "When you protect an abuser you become one" that is Anna Duggar
Are there a ton of commercials, or am I imagining it?!
I’ll work to fix that if true
Poor Anna was basically gifted to Josh as if she were a thing rather than a person. How sad is that 😞and now Anna is stuck living under jimbobs sick and controlling rules. Sooo 😔
Great to see you & THANK YOU 😊
Lovely lace ❤
Prayers. So sorry
Don't live your life in fear or shame. Live your own human life, not the life some other human tells you to live!
I would like to say that these people have also failed their sons. All the children here are taught unrealistic ways of life. And yes, your children should breathe fire in the defense of themselves and their kids. These boys have slaves for wives, so they are also slaves. A chain has two ends. And because these particular people seemingly have not sa’d boys, does not mean it isn’t happening.
Praying for your brother
these cults are so scary yet so interesting to learn about baptized catholic as an infant became born again Christian aged 12 older cousins on my dads side had attended Parkway Christian academy then both had chosen to attend public high school at East Boston High from which they graduated in 1998 and 2002 Respectively had I not repeated 9th grade I'd have graduated HS in 2003 as I'm a few months younger than the younger of those two cousins. she got her driver's license in April 2001 a few months before I'd have gotten mine if I wasn't legally blind
I think we should be careful with judging Anna just because some of us may be able to critically think that doesn't mean Anna is she could be indoctrinated in brainwashed to a point where she doesn't even know how to critically think or even what critically thinking is.
Maybe your interviewee here I had a chance to experience even a little bit of the real world than her life but let's work under the assumption that Anna did not and does not and has not ever had any real-world experience whatsoever. She doesn't know that what she's doing is wrong by not letting her kids be interviewed and she thinks that she's doing everything right and she thinks that is critical thinking. I just don't think it's fair that any of us compare anybody else to ourselves when we are all extremely fundamentally different no matter what, we can almost think of Anna as an innocent child who's never been given the tools and experience to live her own adult life as most people are or at least we should be teaching our children the tools to one day live on their own and be good people good citizens hard workers educated and think critically. Anna's just not
She's a mother. It's called instincts. Protect your lil ones from anyone, anything.
I have a problem with Anna not going to her brothers house if he was offering to take them all in. What is her reasoning behind that. Unless he's a pedo too and she knows if.
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