As much as I understand that there were limitations due to the homophobic network, Murphy's misogynistic views definitely did play a part in the fact that he never really treated Brittana as a serious couple until they were getting married. The fact that sapphic women were a joke to him, a gay man, really tells a lot about how he viewed women in general. Murphy really is the poster boy for misogyny among gay men.
Brittana was the first ship I was obsessed with as a teen and I was discovering my sexuality alongside Santana. They will always have a special place in my heart. Even though the show had a lot of flaws an their ending could've been better, the fact that after a few bumpy years or coming to terms with myself, I got to sit down and watch their wedding gave me so much hope and joy. They are really my ultimate OTP.
Remind me of the wedding with the OTP hat and the song Hey Ya started playing 😂 I remember how crazy it was when we found out they were doing this song and a lot of people didn't understand why the song choice if only they knew 🤭 Heya ❤
The way Brittany was so chill and open about her being bisexual was eye-opening to me, wish they've mentioned that more often in the show, but other then that she remains one of my FAVOURITE BI characters!
What I really love about this show is that though Santana and Brittany weren't meant to be serious, Glee made it serious. It started as queer baiting but stopped being one. I remember crying so much when Santana came out to her grandmother who she was so important to her only to get rejection. I related so much to this as I saw my father in Santana's grandmother. Santana became my favorite character. Rest in peace Naya
I think it was due to the fact that S6 was supposed to be a full 22 episodes originally, that then got cut down to 13 by Fox - I imagine they were two separate events that got combined into 1 for the sake of cutting down on time. I agree it should have happened separately, but totally understand why it didn't - because 2 wedding episodes out of just 13 would have been insane.
While people are often hypercritical of glee & its representation, I think we do often forget just how bad things were in the 2000s/early 2010s. Network execs used to call it *the f-g show* and regularly mocked Ryan Murphy & Chris Colfer's effeminate body language. So it's not surprising that initially, the only way they could introduce wlw was through jokes (this was fox after all) but they definitely ultimately changed the direction for queer media. It's easy to villanise Ryan Murphy as the root of all gay evil, but listening to Kevin and Jenna's podcast really highlighted the crazy systemic homophobia that he was up against.
Santana and Quinn were a huge part of my self-discovery journey, I was both attracted to and inspired by them from a very young age, so I will always hold them so dearly to my heart. I loved Brittana and I loved their journey in the show, but I never really cared about Faberry, mainly cause I got so annoyed by Rachel, especially in the later seasons, also Quinn slowly disappeared after season 3.
I also think that Santana and Quinn being together made sense since they also had some sort of chemistry. Even though it was out of nowhere. I love that pairing. ❤️
Every time I see any new discussions about Glee, it brings a tinge of sadness in my heart knowing the very tragic ending of some of the cast members. Re-watching the show will never be the same. That said, it was such an important show when it first came out. It gave so many queer kids of that time a point of conversation about being gay/queer among queer kids ourselves and also among straight friends and families, who would've otherwise shunned the topic completely. And it was such a revolutionary show, putting gay storylines and couples (Kurt mostly) front and centre on mainstream TV and I believe because of Glee's success, we began to see more and more queer characters on TV shows from that point onwards. IDK if this is controversial, but I am a lesbian who had a lot of deep platonic connections with my straight female friends. I think I am perfectly happy with having that representation of very deeply connected platonic relationships with other females and not have that lead into any kind of lesbian connotation.
I think it’s important to show platonic relationships between men, between women, and between women and men because that reflects the reality of how people have deep non-romantic friendships. And the lack of that representation colors the way that many people treat their partner’s friends and friendships. That said, I also think that a lot of writers grew up watching a lot of intentional queer coding without recognizing that it was queer coding, and that plays into how they just write same sex friendships. So I don’t think it’s detrimental to point out the queer coding of canonically platonic friendships. Also people just like to things, hell, people will ship a magical castle with an eldritch abomination in its neighboring lake 😂
I know glee is full of bad representation but it was so important to me. I grew with it and santana was a icon to me. Tbh back then i thought only glee had wlw characters, i didnt knew l word
This was a great, insightful recap. I was in the trenches in those days and one thing that no one really talked about was how apparent it was that the actresses on Glee were showing the hell up as far as lending depth and respect to the way that their characters were portrayed, and that the writers favored the male characters in ways that were, frankly, WILD.
I agree, usually I think actors get too much of the spotlight when it comes to praising a show bu not this time. The actresses here clearly did the best with the script and put a lot more depth, nuance and emotion in their characters, interactions and overall performance.
Nice video! Being in the Quinntana fandom at the time, I can attest that people there definitely didn't feel like the Valentine's day hook-up was a consolation prize for another ship :) It felt more like an achievement for us, after years of denied chemistry. I understand that the ship wasn't as popular as the main 2 lesbian ships in the show but damn did it feel good to finally be rewarded. I know your feelings are personal but this takes me back to all the ship wars in that fandom. Quinntana became canon, Faberry didn't. No need to belittle the other ship
Shoutout to Naya Rivera for approaching them about being serious about Brittana. Also I’ve been thinking about them so much recently, thank u for this lol
Whilst I love this video, I wish you had mentioned who Brittany was and never changed being even after married to a woman... Bisexual. I just wish our identity didn't shift in the public eye based on who we're with. We're not lesbian. We're not straight. We are always bisexual, whether single or in a relationship. Idk. It kinda hurts every time I hear Brittany referred to as a "lesbian" because the number one issue with media is bisexual erasure the minute WLW relationships begin. Finally the L Word is rectifying that with Alice.
I also vividly remember the moment when Santana said that now when they've broke up she doesn't have to worry that her gf would dump her for a guy (which is not exactly what she said in the series, but it was disgusting so I'm not quoting that) And later it's never been discussed, also Brittany wasn't even allowed to refer to herself as a bisexual, the fucking phrased it as "Bi-unicorn" or smth.
@las9582 if you're more threatened by a woman dumping you for a man, than a woman dumping you for ANYONE (women included), you need to unpack your biphobia. You need to work out why a man feels more threatening to your relationship than a woman when... Cheating is wrong, period. (Edited due to accidental tagging of the wrong person)
thisss, and also I wish there'd been mention of how biphobic Dani and Santana's relationship was writing-wise... it was awful, and so late in the show, too?
I love Brittana but Faberry! All that tension and the chemistry was amazing😩 i love this video but I’m afraid I gotta start reading faberry fanfics again🥲
Thank you for this thoughtful and thorough look at sapphic representation in this circa-2010 cultural icon! I was born in '97, so I was in middle school when Glee first aired. I cannot overstate the impact that Glee had on a young, closeted queer female like myself who grew up in a small, rural town in the American Bible Belt. It was the first queer representation I had ever seen on a public network show that was targeted towards a younger audience. The only other gay and lesbian representation I had seen in media was intended as "adult content" (over-sexualized, mature, perverted, tragic, etc.). When I learned that Brittana was canon, I literally turned to my friend and said, "Wait, they can DO that?!" I thought it was illegal or something lol! Looking back, I see the obvious issues the show had with misogyny, lesbophobia as well as biphobia, and transphobia. I remember the Brittana fandom getting riled up after every episode because Brittana weren't afforded the on-screen affection that other couples were, and were often denied depth and sincerity in the writing of their relationship (for example, Brittana's intimacy being reduced to perpetual scissoring jokes even long after they became an established couple, while Klaine was afforded a nuanced, serious discussion around mlm sex and intimacy from the get-go). Still, I see Brittana and Faberry both as very positive and influential queer pairings in media that helped so many people. That show was a pioneer of queer representation on television, despite its many flaws. The saying is true that "nobody hates Glee more than Glee fans," but I will forever be grateful for what it gave me and many other young queers. It was the thing that introduced me to Tumblr, which in turn introduced me to broader fandom culture, which in turn introduced me to the LGBTQ+ community online which I sorely lacked in real life. It was my bridge into self-acceptance and community.
My favourite scene in Glee was Santana singing Songbird (in my opinion, the most beautiful love song ever 🤍). I really appreciate the fact they gave it to lesbians. And Ryan Murphy... I can forgive him a lot when it comes to Glee, but I'll never forgive him for not making Misty and Cordelia canon (AHS Coven/Apocalypse). The biggest crime in the history of television! Thanks for the throwback! I'm recently rewatching my favourite ships. Btw have you seen Skam France season 6 with Lola and Maya?
Holy Shit. Just realised why Diana Agron was part of my sexual awakening like woah that wasn't a random thing. (Also I remember distinctly wanting to watch the show for her and second for the music) but I
lol the writers DEFIBITELY knew about faberry. they won a voting contest once, like an official one, with other couples from orher tv shows. truly a missed opportunity :(
Still can't believe how Ryan, Ian and Brad got away with treating the fans so poorly. Like not even with the way they wrote the show but with how they interacted with fans online. It was pretty appalling and definitely not something showrunners would get away with nowadays imo. I know glee fans were one of the most rabid and chronically online fanbases there ever have or ever will be but the cast managed to treat them with care and respect while the writers were pretty much spitting in their faces the entire time.
I was a glee fan on tumblr during the show's heyday and honestly I feel like rival shippers treated each other better than RIB treated the fans at some points.
It's crazy how Ryan Murphy completely wrote out the story of Finn and Rachel before the show...yet so many characters were not even written at the start and Ryan writting characters for people who participated in the reality show The Glee Project. Glee got pretty hectic but with all things considered it SHOULD have gotten more absurd than Riverdale.
I loved Brittany and Santana…..a lot of women hook up never really expecting anything like a full blown lesbian relationship. Most women experience the same as these two characters when coming out. They either do like Brittany and say hey, I am different and I am going to explore this and everyone is ok with it. The flip side is some women really struggle accepting they are different and their family circles don’t accept it, which makes it worse. I really loved the story line and how it vetted out. I thought the relationship played out in-spite of the writers and the studio and actresses…🤣❤🌈
I mean, the family will only struggle if you decide it is worth it to pursue a relationship with a woman. Then you have an incentive to come out. Otherwise, there isn't much incentive to rock the boat just for a fling.
Oh the journey back to Brittana and Feberry, I feel 21 again 😊 Santana’s coming out story was so close to my heart back then and even though the show had its issues they really didn’t shy away from a lot of representation we didn’t have anywhere else at the time. Rachel and Quinn were almost more iconic because they weren’t canon but were leaving so much room for interpretation for the fans. Or maybe they just didn’t want to point peoples noses at the fact that Dianna and Lea were looking reeeal close privately, who knows 🤷🏻♀️
I was for a while, so deep in the Faberry ship that I went to a few "FaberryCons" my group of Fandom friends ran for a few years. Hahah I don't tell many of my friends about that now. Hahaha
Shout out to the underground rumblings that Dianna and Lea had a fling/relationship IRL whiiiiiiich I could totally buy with their chemistry (Also big smooch to my Swiftgron pals..... No love to Ryan Murphy) EDIT: ARGHHH ALL THE FABERRY CLIPS 😭 You're trying to kill me with all this ✨ lesbian science ✨
Having witnessed the sheer amount of disrespect and vitriol Cory Monteith received from delusional “Achele” shippers, I can assure you there was nothing underground about it. They literally made fun of his drug addiction and wished he would die.
It's funny you're doing a Glee video now that I started rewatching it from the beginning about a month ago and I've been hit with all the feels again. I remember back then how much Brittany and Santana's relationship helped me a lot. And It's all thanks to Naya pushing for it but also came from the insane chemistry and beautiful friendship she had with Heather that Brittana was born. They did a wonderful job considering what they had to work with and at the time it was such a big deal. I will forever be thankful and grateful to Heather and Naya ❤ Naya will always have a special place in my heart and will forever be missed.
Gods, what a throwback!. I was 13 when i first watched Glee, and will always have a place in my heart because thanks to Brittana, i realized i was lesbian. This show was my personality during that time. I can't tell the amount of fanfics i read about Brittana. I even writed a fanfic myself. Thanks for this video, it was nice getting it touch with that time.
I was sort of in the glee fandom. i loved the show a lot but i definitely was a casual re blogger on tumblr. i never realized Faberry was as popular. but i definitely see it. the whole enemies to lovers would’ve worked so well with them. as for Brittana, i always felt iffy about it considering how easily Santana manipulated Brittany like that. however i’m more inclined to forgive santana because she and brittany were canonically 15-16 when it started and they did have a bit of a break in Season 4 so i liked that they had space for a while and then came back which in my mind is very healthy for high school relationships.
faberry is my fave ship that unfortuantley never became fully cannon they have a special place in my heart and when ever i need to smile i read a faberry fanfic/ao3 also i loved your video
Naya was absurdly talented. Was it horribly written and Ryan Murphy is a toxic pos? YES. Oh my god your use of a Taylor Swift image. Well played! oh Faberry. Ha same. I also wrote fanfiction about Faberry and am amused when people still review for it and get annoyed. Quinn isn’t nice, I don’t write her as nice 🤷🏾♀️but is Dianna Agron delightful for having chemistry with Lea. 😑only a guy would tell Dianna Agron to be sexier. Bloody hell. All the woman has to do is take a shot 😳(literally before their blame it on the alcohol cover) I digress. Dianna is not straight. Also the Barbie movie was amazing. Well written, acted very well (even though Ryan Gosling clearly wanted to laugh a lot). Loved breaking the 4th wall & it’s brilliant.
I love your content soooooo much!!! All of your videos make me laugh and then leave me "bold and shaking"🤣❤️ Thank you for sharing your thoughts and talents with us Sapphics 💋💋💋
this is such a throwback?! i was literally in the trenches fighting for brittana back in the day 😩 i will forever be bitter about the double wedding, many of the storylines regarding them (blam was agony), and how the churro kiss doesn’t get the praise it deserves. great vid! i needed this
In defense of Glee: Santana and Brittany being comedic opposed to Kurt isn't a wlw mlm comparison, as much as Kurt being a serious character from the get go who viewers are supposed to care about while Santana and Brittany were just the sidekicks of Quinn at the time. Dani's writing suffered because Demi Lovato wasn't available to shoot, hence the character's storyline went unfinished.
I learned English by reading gay glee fanfictions. I've met my first girlfriend because of the show. Damn, I was drawing lesbian glee art in my notebook and got accepted into the small art school in my town because of it. And I had a huge crush on Quinn what you just reminded me of...
Can we retire the phrase 'gay panic' please? Say gay crisis or literally anything else that doesn't invoke imagery of hate crimes, as it was and still is in some places a legal defense for homophobic violence.
In the show they mention fabary multiple times like when Rachel was talking to kitty, and the wedding episode, so the writers definitely knew what they where doing
this deep dive was nothing short of absolutley amazing and for that i thank you sooo much. also faberry is a ship i hold deeply in my heart and one of the first ones I found out about and obsessed over, i will never ever stop deneying their inevitability!
Brittana is, was and always will be the OTP of all OTPs for me. I never really liked Faberry because Quinn and Rachel were both pretty unlikeable and both stunk of hwhite liberal.
This was v interesting. I tried watching but I was uncomfortable with the misogyny so I never got past a couple episodes but I've always been curious about Britanna cuz they seem cute and also musicals haha so this satisfied my curiosity. Tyy!
Also idk if I'm the only one seeing it but there's a brief period when Rachel and Santana are in New York and start getting along where chemistry starts building and they have couple potential (which is crazy since Naya and Leah hated each other but somehow it worked?)
It's funny you mention that it was like Brad and Ryan "didn't watch their own show" when it got to the point where Quinn and Santana hooked up. It's like that with ALL their shows. It's really bad in AHS.
I hadn’t thought about Brittana in years and just started rewatching clips of them last week and now you’ve done a video about them. Lesbians clearly share one brain cell.
You really weren't. The writers clearly never intended to have Rachel date women. After Cory's death they could've made Faberry happen but they didn't because it was never something the writers wanted. I think the Santana and Quinn hookup was literally just the writers throwing a bone to the Faberry shippers because they knew they had no interest in putting Quinn and Rachel together.
Years ago I watched this show but basically for the music as I found some of the folks a bit too much, although the gay representation was great. Recently tried to re-watch as have run out of stuff on my streaming service, but now can’t get passed the first episode (old age catching up😇
You can say a lot of bad things about Glee, but you can also say a lot of good things. I want to put my self out there and say, that while I was not a homophob per say, I did have some problems with gays. But Glee thaught me, that LGBT people are much like everyone else. They just want to have the same rights as we do. And they should.
I have Naya and Santana to thank for my life. Just like Brittana it sort of started out as a joke, but her coming out journey then followed mine and I eventually got my happy ending just like Santana did.
Interesting looking at this and how the writing was for lesbians or suggestion of, when I grew up on Willow/Tara (Buffy). Women are more accepted to show queerdom, but only to where it's to satisfy male interest. But for even angst and sad ends, gay men tend to stay gay and just break up, but even recently with a CW show I won't name to not spoil, a lesbian relationship, a character is killed it seems to develop the other character or the lesbianism is a phase doomed because women are just looking for a guy end of the day. 😠
I always felt Faberry much more than brittana. It brought me into the world of fanfic and fandom. It always felt so real to me haha. I still think about these two sometimes. And thank you for this video, I didn't know I needed
tbh I never saw anything appealing about faberry sjsgsjs I got Brittana and was really invested in them, but I never saw any romantic tension between Quinn and Rachel (I did lowkey ship quinn with santana tho, especially after the wedding. it might’ve been bc I really liked Quinn and didn’t care much for Brittany idk)
this is a really interesting topic for me because, when i got into glee as a tween 10 years ago, i was deeply entrenched in comphet and internalized misogyny and therefore was too uncomfortable with sapphic ships to gravitate to them despite being a lesbian (didn't figure that out til i was late into my teens) so i ended up still getting close to queerness by obsessing over klaine instead. it didn't help that, at the time especially, i was surrounded by a lot of anti-brittana stans so i never really looked at their relationship very closely (let alone pick up on anything faberry) and stayed in my klaine lane. but now that i'm no longer a child, and have learned about my own lesbianism and unpacked comphet & internalized misogyny, i'm currently going through the whole series again and doing a character study for all the characters so i'm looking forward to perceiving the sapphic ships with fresh eyes :-)
Dianna could have great chemistry with a rock. I think the Fabrerry ship is reaching. Kevin McHale even stated that Dianna could get them into any club or any place because she just charms the socks off of anyone she comes across without even trying.
Brittana meant a lot to me as I discovered and started watching Glee as it was airing just after I had come out as bi. While I wish they had fleshed out their relationship more, and Brittany as a character more, their relationship was very wholesome and was one of my favorites. Yes the writing wasn't very good (we love/hated Glee for the roller coaster that it was tbh), but Naya and Heather made that relationship real and loving and believable. Even just the small moments when they were sitting together. It was wonderful to see. Do I think the gay-lesbian wedding was weird, yes. I would have much rather had them have separate weddings but they got a nice back together arch and they got their happy ending (don't get me started on how Klaine's back together arch was treated, that was awful). I did ship Faberry, even if it wasn't one of my biggest ships. I would have loved for them to become canon, that had been very interesting since they started out as nemesis. One of my favorite scenes were at prom and Rachel's "you're the prettiest girl I know" line. And of course, the duet, one of the most beautiful songs the show made.
I love the analisys, Faberry sublinar messages are too much for me to absorve just by watching the show, so, I'm over joy that people noticed and shared with the rest of us... Naya Rivera, I miss her, so as the idea of a show with so many music and food for thought as Glee... Too bad the producers and everyone elso around the show were too short minded to notice how great and big this show could be, it already is, we are still talking about it, but could be even bigger with the proper respect and empaty... Unique, Marley, Sam, Tina, Arty, they could represent more our real life! I'm really happy you've decide to talk about Glee!!!! keep doing it!!!! The 16h of sexism, I'm in!!! Go for it!!!
Faberry does not have more chemistry than Finchel, be so fr. Rachel didn't want a genuine relationship with Finn? BE FR. He's literally the only character she consistently cares about. This is why I could never get behind Faberry as a crack ship. You have to be fully delusional and overlook so many aspects of the show to believe Rachel never cared about her relationship with Finn and only wanted him as something she could hold over Quinn. That couldn't be further from the truth.
I think it was somewhat smart though to start off with it as a joke because, from there, they were able to make the relationship happen while the show was too successful to get cancelled.
Im pretty sure Ryan murphy said that after the breakup episode if Cory Monteith didnt pass he would have only made Finn/Rachel and Kurt/Blaine endgame and Brittana would have forever been broken up
The first fics in English I've ever read were Faberry :') The fandom was so creative 😂 My favorite fic was an horror story that involved spiders for some reason. If you know the name please tell me 😂
As much as I understand that there were limitations due to the homophobic network, Murphy's misogynistic views definitely did play a part in the fact that he never really treated Brittana as a serious couple until they were getting married. The fact that sapphic women were a joke to him, a gay man, really tells a lot about how he viewed women in general. Murphy really is the poster boy for misogyny among gay men.
Being a Brittana shipper was agony. RIP my mental health back then.
the mine cover kills me everytime
@@ket.jpg_I cry just thinking about that cover
Brittana was the first ship I was obsessed with as a teen and I was discovering my sexuality alongside Santana. They will always have a special place in my heart. Even though the show had a lot of flaws an their ending could've been better, the fact that after a few bumpy years or coming to terms with myself, I got to sit down and watch their wedding gave me so much hope and joy. They are really my ultimate OTP.
Remind me of the wedding with the OTP hat and the song Hey Ya started playing 😂 I remember how crazy it was when we found out they were doing this song and a lot of people didn't understand why the song choice if only they knew 🤭 Heya ❤
It was the same for me :)
SAAAAAME❤❤❤
The way Brittany was so chill and open about her being bisexual was eye-opening to me, wish they've mentioned that more often in the show, but other then that she remains one of my FAVOURITE BI characters!
What I really love about this show is that though Santana and Brittany weren't meant to be serious, Glee made it serious. It started as queer baiting but stopped being one. I remember crying so much when Santana came out to her grandmother who she was so important to her only to get rejection. I related so much to this as I saw my father in Santana's grandmother. Santana became my favorite character. Rest in peace Naya
I wouldn't say it started as queer baiting cus all of us were already watching it 😂😂
I remember being so mad at the double wedding bcs like let them have their own seperate wedding. And let Brittana have their moment
I think it was due to the fact that S6 was supposed to be a full 22 episodes originally, that then got cut down to 13 by Fox - I imagine they were two separate events that got combined into 1 for the sake of cutting down on time. I agree it should have happened separately, but totally understand why it didn't - because 2 wedding episodes out of just 13 would have been insane.
the way quinn and santana were the furthest they could possibly be away from eachother on the bed is so funny to me
While people are often hypercritical of glee & its representation, I think we do often forget just how bad things were in the 2000s/early 2010s. Network execs used to call it *the f-g show* and regularly mocked Ryan Murphy & Chris Colfer's effeminate body language. So it's not surprising that initially, the only way they could introduce wlw was through jokes (this was fox after all) but they definitely ultimately changed the direction for queer media. It's easy to villanise Ryan Murphy as the root of all gay evil, but listening to Kevin and Jenna's podcast really highlighted the crazy systemic homophobia that he was up against.
Santana and Quinn were a huge part of my self-discovery journey, I was both attracted to and inspired by them from a very young age, so I will always hold them so dearly to my heart. I loved Brittana and I loved their journey in the show, but I never really cared about Faberry, mainly cause I got so annoyed by Rachel, especially in the later seasons, also Quinn slowly disappeared after season 3.
I also think that Santana and Quinn being together made sense since they also had some sort of chemistry. Even though it was out of nowhere. I love that pairing. ❤️
Honestly I never liked Faberry either. I thought Quinn had more chemistry with Mercedes and Tina.
Same here! Spent hundreds of hours reading Quinntana fanfiction during my own self-discovery journey and it brought me so much joy.
Every time I see any new discussions about Glee, it brings a tinge of sadness in my heart knowing the very tragic ending of some of the cast members. Re-watching the show will never be the same.
That said, it was such an important show when it first came out. It gave so many queer kids of that time a point of conversation about being gay/queer among queer kids ourselves and also among straight friends and families, who would've otherwise shunned the topic completely. And it was such a revolutionary show, putting gay storylines and couples (Kurt mostly) front and centre on mainstream TV and I believe because of Glee's success, we began to see more and more queer characters on TV shows from that point onwards.
IDK if this is controversial, but I am a lesbian who had a lot of deep platonic connections with my straight female friends. I think I am perfectly happy with having that representation of very deeply connected platonic relationships with other females and not have that lead into any kind of lesbian connotation.
I think it’s important to show platonic relationships between men, between women, and between women and men because that reflects the reality of how people have deep non-romantic friendships. And the lack of that representation colors the way that many people treat their partner’s friends and friendships. That said, I also think that a lot of writers grew up watching a lot of intentional queer coding without recognizing that it was queer coding, and that plays into how they just write same sex friendships. So I don’t think it’s detrimental to point out the queer coding of canonically platonic friendships. Also people just like to things, hell, people will ship a magical castle with an eldritch abomination in its neighboring lake 😂
I know glee is full of bad representation but it was so important to me. I grew with it and santana was a icon to me. Tbh back then i thought only glee had wlw characters, i didnt knew l word
This was a great, insightful recap. I was in the trenches in those days and one thing that no one really talked about was how apparent it was that the actresses on Glee were showing the hell up as far as lending depth and respect to the way that their characters were portrayed, and that the writers favored the male characters in ways that were, frankly, WILD.
I agree, usually I think actors get too much of the spotlight when it comes to praising a show bu not this time. The actresses here clearly did the best with the script and put a lot more depth, nuance and emotion in their characters, interactions and overall performance.
Nice video! Being in the Quinntana fandom at the time, I can attest that people there definitely didn't feel like the Valentine's day hook-up was a consolation prize for another ship :) It felt more like an achievement for us, after years of denied chemistry. I understand that the ship wasn't as popular as the main 2 lesbian ships in the show but damn did it feel good to finally be rewarded. I know your feelings are personal but this takes me back to all the ship wars in that fandom. Quinntana became canon, Faberry didn't. No need to belittle the other ship
Quinntana is still my OTP for Glee, represent baybee
Shoutout to Naya Rivera for approaching them about being serious about Brittana. Also I’ve been thinking about them so much recently, thank u for this lol
Holy lesbian Jesus, this bought back some SERIOUS Glee related PTSD 🙃
Yes lol
can't suppress the lesbian synergy..it pops right out time after time
Whilst I love this video, I wish you had mentioned who Brittany was and never changed being even after married to a woman... Bisexual. I just wish our identity didn't shift in the public eye based on who we're with. We're not lesbian. We're not straight. We are always bisexual, whether single or in a relationship. Idk. It kinda hurts every time I hear Brittany referred to as a "lesbian" because the number one issue with media is bisexual erasure the minute WLW relationships begin. Finally the L Word is rectifying that with Alice.
I also vividly remember the moment when Santana said that now when they've broke up she doesn't have to worry that her gf would dump her for a guy (which is not exactly what she said in the series, but it was disgusting so I'm not quoting that) And later it's never been discussed, also Brittany wasn't even allowed to refer to herself as a bisexual, the fucking phrased it as "Bi-unicorn" or smth.
It's not disgusting. Lesbians deal with this in real life.
@las9582 if you're more threatened by a woman dumping you for a man, than a woman dumping you for ANYONE (women included), you need to unpack your biphobia. You need to work out why a man feels more threatening to your relationship than a woman when... Cheating is wrong, period.
(Edited due to accidental tagging of the wrong person)
@@Moon0525_ I think y'all are confused at what they said
thisss, and also I wish there'd been mention of how biphobic Dani and Santana's relationship was writing-wise... it was awful, and so late in the show, too?
I love Brittana but Faberry! All that tension and the chemistry was amazing😩 i love this video but I’m afraid I gotta start reading faberry fanfics again🥲
Came for the Spice Girls, but glad I stuck around for this! I really love your videos so far!
Thank you for this thoughtful and thorough look at sapphic representation in this circa-2010 cultural icon! I was born in '97, so I was in middle school when Glee first aired. I cannot overstate the impact that Glee had on a young, closeted queer female like myself who grew up in a small, rural town in the American Bible Belt. It was the first queer representation I had ever seen on a public network show that was targeted towards a younger audience. The only other gay and lesbian representation I had seen in media was intended as "adult content" (over-sexualized, mature, perverted, tragic, etc.). When I learned that Brittana was canon, I literally turned to my friend and said, "Wait, they can DO that?!" I thought it was illegal or something lol!
Looking back, I see the obvious issues the show had with misogyny, lesbophobia as well as biphobia, and transphobia. I remember the Brittana fandom getting riled up after every episode because Brittana weren't afforded the on-screen affection that other couples were, and were often denied depth and sincerity in the writing of their relationship (for example, Brittana's intimacy being reduced to perpetual scissoring jokes even long after they became an established couple, while Klaine was afforded a nuanced, serious discussion around mlm sex and intimacy from the get-go). Still, I see Brittana and Faberry both as very positive and influential queer pairings in media that helped so many people.
That show was a pioneer of queer representation on television, despite its many flaws. The saying is true that "nobody hates Glee more than Glee fans," but I will forever be grateful for what it gave me and many other young queers. It was the thing that introduced me to Tumblr, which in turn introduced me to broader fandom culture, which in turn introduced me to the LGBTQ+ community online which I sorely lacked in real life. It was my bridge into self-acceptance and community.
Not the Taylor pic during the lesbian Dianna Agron scene..... you know what you did
thought that was just me noticing that
ikr:)
My favourite scene in Glee was Santana singing Songbird (in my opinion, the most beautiful love song ever 🤍). I really appreciate the fact they gave it to lesbians. And Ryan Murphy... I can forgive him a lot when it comes to Glee, but I'll never forgive him for not making Misty and Cordelia canon (AHS Coven/Apocalypse). The biggest crime in the history of television! Thanks for the throwback! I'm recently rewatching my favourite ships. Btw have you seen Skam France season 6 with Lola and Maya?
Holy Shit. Just realised why Diana Agron was part of my sexual awakening like woah that wasn't a random thing. (Also I remember distinctly wanting to watch the show for her and second for the music) but I
lol the writers DEFIBITELY knew about faberry. they won a voting contest once, like an official one, with other couples from orher tv shows. truly a missed opportunity :(
faberry fanfiction is my queer origin story 🎀
Um, as a quinntana shipper, 😅 you forgot quinn was one of santana's side chicks
Still can't believe how Ryan, Ian and Brad got away with treating the fans so poorly. Like not even with the way they wrote the show but with how they interacted with fans online. It was pretty appalling and definitely not something showrunners would get away with nowadays imo. I know glee fans were one of the most rabid and chronically online fanbases there ever have or ever will be but the cast managed to treat them with care and respect while the writers were pretty much spitting in their faces the entire time.
I was a glee fan on tumblr during the show's heyday and honestly I feel like rival shippers treated each other better than RIB treated the fans at some points.
Ditto for Tumblr, though from memory Klaine shippers were a different story at times.
It's crazy how Ryan Murphy completely wrote out the story of Finn and Rachel before the show...yet so many characters were not even written at the start and Ryan writting characters for people who participated in the reality show The Glee Project. Glee got pretty hectic but with all things considered it SHOULD have gotten more absurd than Riverdale.
Watching all of these Faberry scenes after a long time are giving me emotional whiplash.
I loved Brittany and Santana…..a lot of women hook up never really expecting anything like a full blown lesbian relationship. Most women experience the same as these two characters when coming out. They either do like Brittany and say hey, I am different and I am going to explore this and everyone is ok with it. The flip side is some women really struggle accepting they are different and their family circles don’t accept it, which makes it worse. I really loved the story line and how it vetted out. I thought the relationship played out in-spite of the writers and the studio and actresses…🤣❤🌈
I mean, the family will only struggle if you decide it is worth it to pursue a relationship with a woman. Then you have an incentive to come out. Otherwise, there isn't much incentive to rock the boat just for a fling.
Oh the journey back to Brittana and Feberry, I feel 21 again 😊 Santana’s coming out story was so close to my heart back then and even though the show had its issues they really didn’t shy away from a lot of representation we didn’t have anywhere else at the time. Rachel and Quinn were almost more iconic because they weren’t canon but were leaving so much room for interpretation for the fans.
Or maybe they just didn’t want to point peoples noses at the fact that Dianna and Lea were looking reeeal close privately, who knows 🤷🏻♀️
Thank you for making this! Spot on!!! Brittana was my main ship, but Faberry was real!!! Got deep love for both! Thanks for making my day!
I was for a while, so deep in the Faberry ship that I went to a few "FaberryCons" my group of Fandom friends ran for a few years. Hahah I don't tell many of my friends about that now. Hahaha
Shout out to the underground rumblings that Dianna and Lea had a fling/relationship IRL whiiiiiiich I could totally buy with their chemistry
(Also big smooch to my Swiftgron pals..... No love to Ryan Murphy)
EDIT: ARGHHH ALL THE FABERRY CLIPS 😭 You're trying to kill me with all this ✨ lesbian science ✨
for sure!!! remember the cheerleaders dance with all the women in football unis? so incredibly gay
Having witnessed the sheer amount of disrespect and vitriol Cory Monteith received from delusional “Achele” shippers, I can assure you there was nothing underground about it. They literally made fun of his drug addiction and wished he would die.
It's funny you're doing a Glee video now that I started rewatching it from the beginning about a month ago and I've been hit with all the feels again.
I remember back then how much Brittany and Santana's relationship helped me a lot.
And It's all thanks to Naya pushing for it but also came from the insane chemistry and beautiful friendship she had with Heather that Brittana was born. They did a wonderful job considering what they had to work with and at the time it was such a big deal.
I will forever be thankful and grateful to Heather and Naya ❤
Naya will always have a special place in my heart and will forever be missed.
Thank you for this video 🙏
Gods, what a throwback!. I was 13 when i first watched Glee, and will always have a place in my heart because thanks to Brittana, i realized i was lesbian. This show was my personality during that time. I can't tell the amount of fanfics i read about Brittana. I even writed a fanfic myself. Thanks for this video, it was nice getting it touch with that time.
What wonderful Sunday morning, thank you for this upload. I enjoy a lot of your contents, keep up the good work. LESBIANS ROCK!
I was sort of in the glee fandom. i loved the show a lot but i definitely was a casual re blogger on tumblr. i never realized Faberry was as popular. but i definitely see it. the whole enemies to lovers would’ve worked so well with them. as for Brittana, i always felt iffy about it considering how easily Santana manipulated Brittany like that. however i’m more inclined to forgive santana because she and brittany were canonically 15-16 when it started and they did have a bit of a break in Season 4 so i liked that they had space for a while and then came back which in my mind is very healthy for high school relationships.
faberry is my fave ship that unfortuantley never became fully cannon they have a special place in my heart and when ever i need to smile i read a faberry fanfic/ao3 also i loved your video
I was obsessed with glee and Quinn. Sue Sylvester was my fav she was so funny
well there's an alternate universe out there that has faberry as canon and got a happy ending.
Can you PLEASE do a video about Whitney Houston being bisexual?! This is the first I’ve heard of it!!
I may be a straight guy & my gaydar so to speak is as good as expected & yet i STILL don't understand how Rachel & Quinn didn't happen.
The Taylor swift gif after dianna agron’s admission 😭😭 swiftgron universe expands
Naya was absurdly talented. Was it horribly written and Ryan Murphy is a toxic pos? YES. Oh my god your use of a Taylor Swift image. Well played!
oh Faberry. Ha same. I also wrote fanfiction about Faberry and am amused when people still review for it and get annoyed. Quinn isn’t nice, I don’t write her as nice 🤷🏾♀️but is Dianna Agron delightful for having chemistry with Lea. 😑only a guy would tell Dianna Agron to be sexier. Bloody hell. All the woman has to do is take a shot 😳(literally before their blame it on the alcohol cover) I digress. Dianna is not straight.
Also the Barbie movie was amazing. Well written, acted very well (even though Ryan Gosling clearly wanted to laugh a lot). Loved breaking the 4th wall & it’s brilliant.
I love your content soooooo much!!! All of your videos make me laugh and then leave me "bold and shaking"🤣❤️ Thank you for sharing your thoughts and talents with us Sapphics 💋💋💋
Haha I’m the first person to comment.
Your so talented ❤
that lesbian montage near the end had me howling hahahaha what a throwback to the early tumblr glee days
I live in fear of the day I will finally rewatch this wretched show, and yet...
start substituting Zeus with Artemis the REAL lesbian god(dess)...pleeeeze🥺
faberry was my first major ship and experience with fandom they will always mean so much to me
this is such a throwback?! i was literally in the trenches fighting for brittana back in the day 😩 i will forever be bitter about the double wedding, many of the storylines regarding them (blam was agony), and how the churro kiss doesn’t get the praise it deserves.
great vid! i needed this
PLEASE DO BARBIE NEXT 😃🥹🩷
Are you going to talk about the lesbian couples on Yellowjackets?
Literally rewatching glee again right now
In defense of Glee:
Santana and Brittany being comedic opposed to Kurt isn't a wlw mlm comparison, as much as Kurt being a serious character from the get go who viewers are supposed to care about while Santana and Brittany were just the sidekicks of Quinn at the time.
Dani's writing suffered because Demi Lovato wasn't available to shoot, hence the character's storyline went unfinished.
Can you please talk about the dynamics between Emma Swan and Regina Mills/Evil Queen. Or SwanQueen From Once Upon A Time?
OH MY GOD YES
A non canon couple I’d wish they the balls to go into more Santana & Quinn
I never cared for Quinn & Rachel ,or finn and Rachel
I learned English by reading gay glee fanfictions. I've met my first girlfriend because of the show. Damn, I was drawing lesbian glee art in my notebook and got accepted into the small art school in my town because of it. And I had a huge crush on Quinn what you just reminded me of...
Who doesn't have a crush on Quinn? 🤨
I haven’t watched Glee but now I kinda want to. This was great 🎉
Can we retire the phrase 'gay panic' please? Say gay crisis or literally anything else that doesn't invoke imagery of hate crimes, as it was and still is in some places a legal defense for homophobic violence.
Life as a Pezberry shipper is so lonely😥
In the show they mention fabary multiple times like when Rachel was talking to kitty, and the wedding episode, so the writers definitely knew what they where doing
When Sue said "Faberry! Love those lesbians!" I choked
this deep dive was nothing short of absolutley amazing and for that i thank you sooo much. also faberry is a ship i hold deeply in my heart and one of the first ones I found out about and obsessed over, i will never ever stop deneying their inevitability!
Imagine saying Jif
Being a Brittana shipper on tumblr back in the day was wild and consumed most of my time.
Brittana is, was and always will be the OTP of all OTPs for me. I never really liked Faberry because Quinn and Rachel were both pretty unlikeable and both stunk of hwhite liberal.
Another great video analysis!!!!! Can’t wait to see your next deep dive!
This was v interesting. I tried watching but I was uncomfortable with the misogyny so I never got past a couple episodes but I've always been curious about Britanna cuz they seem cute and also musicals haha so this satisfied my curiosity. Tyy!
Also idk if I'm the only one seeing it but there's a brief period when Rachel and Santana are in New York and start getting along where chemistry starts building and they have couple potential (which is crazy since Naya and Leah hated each other but somehow it worked?)
It's funny you mention that it was like Brad and Ryan "didn't watch their own show" when it got to the point where Quinn and Santana hooked up. It's like that with ALL their shows. It's really bad in AHS.
I hadn’t thought about Brittana in years and just started rewatching clips of them last week and now you’ve done a video about them. Lesbians clearly share one brain cell.
They did Faberry so damn dirty. We were this close to a full ship. This close 👌
You really weren't. The writers clearly never intended to have Rachel date women. After Cory's death they could've made Faberry happen but they didn't because it was never something the writers wanted. I think the Santana and Quinn hookup was literally just the writers throwing a bone to the Faberry shippers because they knew they had no interest in putting Quinn and Rachel together.
@@goldrush18x thank you for the explanation, I’m aware, hence this close.
@@Loveonmysleeve the point is you weren't close lmao
Years ago I watched this show but basically for the music as I found some of the folks a bit too much, although the gay representation was great. Recently tried to re-watch as have run out of stuff on my streaming service, but now can’t get passed the first episode (old age catching up😇
You can say a lot of bad things about Glee, but you can also say a lot of good things. I want to put my self out there and say, that while I was not a homophob per say, I did have some problems with gays. But Glee thaught me, that LGBT people are much like everyone else. They just want to have the same rights as we do. And they should.
I was a Hardcore Faberry Shipper ❤❤❤❤❤
I have Naya and Santana to thank for my life. Just like Brittana it sort of started out as a joke, but her coming out journey then followed mine and I eventually got my happy ending just like Santana did.
Interesting looking at this and how the writing was for lesbians or suggestion of, when I grew up on Willow/Tara (Buffy). Women are more accepted to show queerdom, but only to where it's to satisfy male interest. But for even angst and sad ends, gay men tend to stay gay and just break up, but even recently with a CW show I won't name to not spoil, a lesbian relationship, a character is killed it seems to develop the other character or the lesbianism is a phase doomed because women are just looking for a guy end of the day. 😠
Thank you for making this!!! I used to be a closeting glee fan lol.
I always felt Faberry much more than brittana. It brought me into the world of fanfic and fandom. It always felt so real to me haha. I still think about these two sometimes.
And thank you for this video, I didn't know I needed
That was a bad scene for both Santana and Finn. Intentional and undue malevolence on her part, destructive and frankly stupid oversight on his.
Faberry was the first ship I was obsessed with. I still reread some fanfiction sometimes haha
tbh I never saw anything appealing about faberry sjsgsjs I got Brittana and was really invested in them, but I never saw any romantic tension between Quinn and Rachel (I did lowkey ship quinn with santana tho, especially after the wedding. it might’ve been bc I really liked Quinn and didn’t care much for Brittany idk)
this is a really interesting topic for me because, when i got into glee as a tween 10 years ago, i was deeply entrenched in comphet and internalized misogyny and therefore was too uncomfortable with sapphic ships to gravitate to them despite being a lesbian (didn't figure that out til i was late into my teens) so i ended up still getting close to queerness by obsessing over klaine instead. it didn't help that, at the time especially, i was surrounded by a lot of anti-brittana stans so i never really looked at their relationship very closely (let alone pick up on anything faberry) and stayed in my klaine lane. but now that i'm no longer a child, and have learned about my own lesbianism and unpacked comphet & internalized misogyny, i'm currently going through the whole series again and doing a character study for all the characters so i'm looking forward to perceiving the sapphic ships with fresh eyes :-)
Dianna could have great chemistry with a rock. I think the Fabrerry ship is reaching. Kevin McHale even stated that Dianna could get them into any club or any place because she just charms the socks off of anyone she comes across without even trying.
the photos after every example was perfect lol ❤
Brittana meant a lot to me as I discovered and started watching Glee as it was airing just after I had come out as bi. While I wish they had fleshed out their relationship more, and Brittany as a character more, their relationship was very wholesome and was one of my favorites. Yes the writing wasn't very good (we love/hated Glee for the roller coaster that it was tbh), but Naya and Heather made that relationship real and loving and believable. Even just the small moments when they were sitting together. It was wonderful to see. Do I think the gay-lesbian wedding was weird, yes. I would have much rather had them have separate weddings but they got a nice back together arch and they got their happy ending (don't get me started on how Klaine's back together arch was treated, that was awful).
I did ship Faberry, even if it wasn't one of my biggest ships. I would have loved for them to become canon, that had been very interesting since they started out as nemesis. One of my favorite scenes were at prom and Rachel's "you're the prettiest girl I know" line. And of course, the duet, one of the most beautiful songs the show made.
I hated the double wedding Santana definitely never would have went for that... She would have gone all Lima heights
I love the analisys, Faberry sublinar messages are too much for me to absorve just by watching the show, so, I'm over joy that people noticed and shared with the rest of us... Naya Rivera, I miss her, so as the idea of a show with so many music and food for thought as Glee... Too bad the producers and everyone elso around the show were too short minded to notice how great and big this show could be, it already is, we are still talking about it, but could be even bigger with the proper respect and empaty... Unique, Marley, Sam, Tina, Arty, they could represent more our real life! I'm really happy you've decide to talk about Glee!!!! keep doing it!!!! The 16h of sexism, I'm in!!! Go for it!!!
I miss Brittana so much! They mean so much to me 🥰
Faberry does not have more chemistry than Finchel, be so fr. Rachel didn't want a genuine relationship with Finn? BE FR. He's literally the only character she consistently cares about. This is why I could never get behind Faberry as a crack ship. You have to be fully delusional and overlook so many aspects of the show to believe Rachel never cared about her relationship with Finn and only wanted him as something she could hold over Quinn. That couldn't be further from the truth.
I think it was somewhat smart though to start off with it as a joke because, from there, they were able to make the relationship happen while the show was too successful to get cancelled.
I was an oblivious 15 year old so I gotta go back and rewatch with the Quinn & Rachel Romance knowledge…
Just unlocked my memories of shipping Faberry on tumblr
Im pretty sure Ryan murphy said that after the breakup episode if Cory Monteith didnt pass he would have only made Finn/Rachel and Kurt/Blaine endgame and Brittana would have forever been broken up
I loved Santana & Brittany as a couple. I never noticed that Rachel & Quinn were a couple. I must have missed that. Great video.
I had a huge crush on Brittany❤️
The first fics in English I've ever read were Faberry :') The fandom was so creative 😂 My favorite fic was an horror story that involved spiders for some reason. If you know the name please tell me 😂
Being an OWL, I stopped watching Glee because of the way the lesbianism was written. Thank you for filling in all that
I missed.
💝💝