Is the Iron Cross a racist symbol in the Rock and Metal community?
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2022
- In the 60s, maybe even earlier, Many biker groups started to adopt the Iron Cross as part of their symbolism, and the main reason was to add a sort of shock factor to their image. Afterall, if the public were going to look down on them anyway, why not go all out and try to piss them off as much as you possibly could. It was a way of saying “I don’t care what you think of me, I live the way I want to live” and of course some bikers wanted to strike fear into people so what better way than to wear the symbol of an evil power from world war 2.
The iron cross just naturally found its way into the Metal community over time. With the music sounding aggressive, it made sense for bands to look aggressive and what better way to do that than to mimic the style of outlaw bikers. And it worked.
Many bands over the years have donned an Iron Cross, most famously Lemmy of Motorhead and even James Hetfield has one on a guitar he uses live. So does the Iron Cross represent any sort of racism as well?
#IronCross #Motörhead #Metallica
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The iron cross came from the Teutonic Knights around the year 800, fast forward about a thousand years and German states began awarding them for bravery. It’s basically the German Medal of Honor, nothing more
no, that was the Cross Patee which is different from the Iron Cross, though they do look similar. the Cross Patee has no outline, the iron Cross does have one is the big difference between them
@@michellebrown7714 yes but the iron cross is derived from the cross Patee as is the victoria cross given for bravery to british forces and the st georges cross given to russian forces
@@svpmusic8140 yes but they are considered to be two entirely different crosses today and have been for hundreds of years
@@michellebrown7714 yet neither of them are symbols of racism
@@svpmusic8140 on that we agree
The USA flag has been famously adopted by the MAGA crowd, I simply cannot have it on my car anymore or a cap or T-shirt, as dumb as that sounds . Literally people have assumed I’m a trumper when wearing or displaying it. Ridiculous.
I understand why people would have a concern for symbols being used due to the history of said symbol. That being said, alot of young people who are metal fans, or music fans in general, have no clue as to what those symbols mean. I am someone who also feels that we need to teach our history and let it be known as to how people were treated by certain leaders and countries in our past. It reminds our youth not to fall into that same type of situation. If the Iron Cross was being used today by metal heads as a racist symbol, then it should be dealt with. If it's being used as a way for the youthful metal heads to express their rebellious nature, then leave it be.
They know exactly what is means...you listen to Metallica,lol,lol,lol.
@@billriddle9215 😬....I dang shore does!!!....🤘👀🤘
As a metalhead, I personally do not slide with the Iron Cross because I am also of a Jewish background, and while I do understand and accept that the Iron Cross predates Hitler’s dictatorship, for me, it is the fact that Nazi’s also wore the Iron Cross, I do not think that people who wear it today are Nazis, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people out there who display abhorrent racist behavior while parading around with an Iron Cross, which is why I personally will never be caught wearing one.
What's good is that we're having these discussions. It means we won't forget the baggage and furthermore we won't forget the history. Gotta say, I don't slide with it either despite James Hetfield and his guitar. The Mantuan Cross there rubs me wrong exactly because of the Holocaust.
Having that said, I like how his guitar looks and, well, as I'm building my LP guitar here, I want to make it like his, but I'm trying to figure out how to make my own spin on the cross without sacrificing the look. Kind of a silly problem to have in the context of this exchange.
exactly, it’s forever been tainted by the nazis disgusting legacy, therefore i feel like it should just be phased out
Yep. I don’t mind Iron crosses, in fact I like what they represented in Prussia and the German Empire. Biker gangs using the symbol for shock value is whatever to me, what annoys me is seeing the few far right groups in Germany (or anywhere else) donning the Iron cross as a replacement for a swastika on their flag since that would be illegal.
@@flaatheaad7544 oh yes great logic hey let's not forget the Nazis wore clothing too and drove vehicles so since those things have also been tainted by them then clothing and vehicles should be forever phased out of existence all the same then we can really feel good and virtuous for being so AnTiFaSh 😂
People also display racist behavior while drinking so let's just ban drinking while we're at it. Worked so well during the prohibition era didn't it? 😅
Wearing the Iron Cross despite the perpetually offended outrage mob is very metal in and of itself.
Same should apply to the swastika
@@melchior2678dude are you actually saying people should go around wearing swastikas just to offend people for the sake of it
read the comments here to see which type of person you're choosing to associate with by wearing this shit. You AIN'T subtle.
@@Toto-vq9hbthe German Swastika is 100% a racist symbol. But other variants are not, such as a hindu swastika
@@Toto-vq9hbthey took a symbol that already existed and tweaked it for their agenda.
Everything is racist nowadays, doesn't matter that this symbol predates the Austrian painter.
It's a meaningless word that should just be omitted altogether. But then we would get to the heart of the real problem- hatred of white people.
yes but those early regimes had the same agenda as that painter had - colonialism, enslaving eastern europeans and people of darker skin tone
@@vicfame3171 as did everyone else….and guess what? We are slaves.
@@nickpayne1641 ok. so, you work for slave wage ... ? i don't think so
im from Austria,and i live in Braunau so i am a ultra Racist because its 2022😝🤣🤦♠️🤘🇦🇹🏴☠️
No its not racist its military insignia
the military is never racist.
Thank you. My dad bought me a cuff and I didn’t realize it has iron crosses until later. I wasn’t sure if I should wear it or not.
How the hell is a military bravery symbol that originates in 1819 racists??
I toured the UK and Europe a lot in my 20s in bands and I always wore my Iron Cross, used to get accused of being a Nazi and a racist al the time. It's ridiculous, hence why I made this video.
There's history, then there's history that comes with baggage. Hitler's Germany gave the Mantuan Cross and the Swastika the dark popularly known meanings. We can't help who adopt these symbols... just accept the baggage. With Swastika, I guess, the damage in the west is permanent. Not going to argue with that. However, even in Germany you can wear the shape of the Mantuan Cross shape as long as you strip it of the Nazi-specific decorations. What's better is that, Iron Cross is now recognized as not necessarily a Nazi symbol.
What's valuable is these discussions. It means we don't forget that these symbols mean different things to different people and we don't forget the history.
can you please do how Bob Marley influenced and inspired the rock artists.
As a german i know a bit about it
We still use similar crosses in military today
I still think in black metal some bands who use the iron cross tend to be... lets say suspocious in some other categories
Not everyone
But there certainly is some connection
Probably because many people think its a nazi symbol many nazis use it these days
My father died as a active
Hells Angel 😇
I grew up seeing the iron cross
I know the history of the iron cross -
Thanks for the clarification! I think it‘s important to explain stuff like that and to reduce prejudice and animosity. Have a good one 🤘🏻🤘🤘🏾🤘🏿👽✨
It doesn't reduce anything.
@@billriddle9215Most of what needs to be” reducing “ ? Is imaginary anyhow!😂😂
@@CoreyT127 okay poser.
The iron cross predated national socialism. As you already pointed out in your video.
I'm a Bass player and I ride a Harley Davidson. The Iron Cross is all over the place in my life and until a year or so ago, I've never thought of it as racist.
It's a cross that many have used to upset people that don't understand them. LOL!! I guess it's still working. 🤣
same like the Confederate Flag 🤣😉
@@Endo-uu8mo exactly.
confederates were traitors and people who murdered millions of innocents proudly wore that cross
@@Endo-uu8mothe Confederate flag is extremely different. It originated and only stand for racism and slavery.
OK, this is good to know. I'm building my spin of James' Iron Cross guitar but I'm a little bit iffy about it. Well, I'm gonna do my own spin on it.
Great video , very eloquently and succinctly explained
There is this big misconception about the iron cross. The iron cross IS NOT a Nazi symbol, it was originally a symbol worn by the Templar knights, then later used as a military decoration by the Prussians and imperial Germans. Many people think it is a Nazi symbol because the Nazis used it just like the past German nations. They did not invent it.
You basically explained it at the beginning of your video. Metal fans have always been kind of influenced by outlaw bikers. That's where some of our symbolism comes from, not racist stuff.
never like outlaw bikers.but i always like rebels Big difference
Shame this has to be ‘splained to baby Tok-ers with too much eye makeup!👎🙄
Thank you kindly for educating the kids!👍🤘
Thank you for making this video.
Prussia isn't modern day Germany though, that area is now Russia/Poland
It was more just to highlight a general connection with the German Empire under Prussian rule. I could have worded that better.
"Is it heresy?" "Is it thought crime?"
I have the German skull and bones symbol sticker on my tools box, it means to me, my respect for the heroism of the German army courage, honour and gallantry displayed on the battlefield since the hussars wore it since the napoleónico wars
reminds me of this skit ruclips.net/video/hn1VxaMEjRU/видео.html
Good video man! 👏✌
same goes for the Totenkopf, or Deaths Head symbol, which dates back to Frederick the Great and the Prussian Hussar cavalry. even the Swastika dates back to ancient Tibet, seen it in many old Kung-Fu movies.
You're right but I wouldn't recommend wearing a swastika ahah 💀😭
Although, most who use the Totenkopf nowadays are at least cryptofascist. If I see a white guy with it, I'm immediately suspicious unless I know they had a hussar cavalier great grandfather or whatever. And having the swastika on you is truly a great problem 99% of the cases.
Even the totemkopf has been “adopted’ by some “nsbm” bands. There should be cautioned on what to wear, or else someone may think otherwise of you. But perhaps you could care the less.
The iron cross isn't racist like,if a neo nazi is wearing an iron cross they have a nazi swastika on it,but just like you said tje original iron cross represents honour and respect and it was made in the 1870
Iron cross was giving to soliders for bravery and honor so no it is not racist
I was just listening to that Papa Roach song the other day lol
Germany still uses the iron Cross even to this day.. lemmy did have a great fascination with Nazi Germany and ww2 as a whole.. seen footage of his apartment swastikas everywhere 😂
Very well said
Al Jourgensen has an Iron Cross tattoo!
Ministry!!!!!
Great video.
Modern Germany still uses the iron cross
I think of bikers and auto enthusiasts when I see this symbol. It's always been a sign of rebellion in my world.
Does this call for a motorhead story perhaps?
Yes please 😂
Motorhead story soon?
My all time favourite band, so yes, that will happen at some point!
@@RAWMUSICTV I like the fact that Lemmy was a big time German Militaria too. 😃
Like he said, the bad guys always had the best imagery 😄
Nothing wrong with it but important you understand and can explain what it means to you personally. By the way the swastika which almost everyone sees as a racist symbol, has ancient use and symbolises prosperity and good fortune in eastern cultures. Most simple symbols have been in use for centuries by different cultures. Meanings can change by use, it was not long ago that the England flag was used by racists, and now it is more commonly associated with England sports teams. So if you like an image use it for what it means to you (thank you Lemmy 😄)
I drew one and put it on my electric acoustic🎸 🤷🏽♂️ Me, I thought of it as from one of my favourite guitarists, James Hetfield. Now that I know it may be racists, I’m thinking of taking it off. But then again, I wanna shock people too 😆 with my hardcore acoustic music. If I ever get good at playing more. 😅. Anyway, I still like the Iron Cross, it’s hardcore to me and reminds me of James and his Metallica music. Keep rocking y’all pCe!
Maybe one day I’ll be a rockstar, until then, I’ll be practicing in my uncles basement for now🤘🏽😎🎸🔥❤️
Then the Medal of Honor would have to be included as well.
can you please do how Bob Marley influenced and inspired the rock artists.
lol first off, James' is NOT an iron Cross or Eisernes Kreuz, its a Cross Patee or Tatzenkreuz (because it has no outline like the Iron Cross has, thus making it an entirely separate cross all together) and its a crusader symbol, dating from early medieval times
Thanks for not watching the video, well done.
@@RAWMUSICTV Actually I DID watch the entire video and you left out a LOT of things. to correct them all would take an hour long video of my own or a several thousand word thesis
I get it. You're a loser that has no motivation to commit to anything. Thanks for trying kiddo.
@@RAWMUSICTV lol youre actually butt hurt I pointed out you didnt do the proper research? lol
@@RAWMUSICTVbruh why so rude
I get what you’re saying, but the same argument can be made about the swastika. That symbol existed long before National Socialism existed. But if you met someone with a swastika tattoo, I doubt you’d give them the benefit of the doubt. Yes, both symbols existed long before the negative connotation that most people today have of them, however, what does the person wearing them associate with it? Do they know that the iron cross is older than nazi Germany? Probably not. It would be naive to assume that the symbols don’t have a nefarious connotation to the individual wearing it, because at the end of the day, its most well known meaning is associated with Nazi Germany. At what point does a symbol cease to represent whatever it originally meant, and become more commonly associated with its more well known meaning? And how do we, the viewer, make that distinction?
And why doesn’t the same logic apply to the confederate flag? This is a symbol that originally stood for pro-slavery and anti-American rhetoric. But when you ask someone wearing it, they deny its original meaning and claim that it means something different to them. It’s hypocritical on its face. It seems as though people who wear these symbols just want to deny the most common association of them, and free themselves from any criticism for wearing the symbol.
I live by: "If I have not earned it I don't wear it". I did not serve to earn a medal of military bravery and find it to be hypocrisy to appropriate a symbol someone else have to risk their lives to earn. I like the iron cross and find it beautiful but I can't make myself wear one for this reason. I can play with symbolism but when the symbolism is already set I feel to respect it. When it comes to Nazi symbolism I think we should transcend that. If we start using them for other causes we detach them from Nazism because in the end, the only thing really defining racism are words and acts of racism happening right now, not whatever some symbol used to represent for a short period of time.
You talk a lot but don't say much.
Seems clear to me. Like it but spoiled by nazi association. However the meaning can change by widespread use in another context 🤷🏻♂️
Idk about James and that guitar…..
The Les Paul looks weird on him. He looks much more bad a** with a V or an Explorer.
Watching this while wearing my iron cross necklace,also I’m pretty sure the cross is still used by the German military I’ve seen photos of tanks with the cross in It
It's literally still the symbol of the German army and people still think it's racist
@@RAWMUSICTV that’s cus people are very quick to judge like context doesn’t exist anymore cus people see something and instantly call it something it’s not
It's just such an ignorant viewpoint. Imagine thinking the Iron Cross is racist and then finding out it was given to 0000's of non-racist soldiers for bravery.
@@RAWMUSICTV I know man shits irritating a lot of people (especially on tiktok) are ignorant for immediately thinking there racist
@@MrJJr-lw9zq thats because peoples these days had no brain 🤣
Same for the Panze kreuz, no nazi neither. Nazis took lots of symbols, especialy for the waffen.
Its on the crown of england. Its not nazi, sure they wore them but its a military medal, look at the V.C. of the commonwealth, its the same shape also
It is, as it should !
is what
First of all, who is asking?
replace everytime he said metal with punk and hes right
Good lord, some of these comments. I miss the days when metalheads were smart. Right wing propaganda has poisoned portions of this community.
The Germans almost reintroduced the Iron Cross in 2008 for the soldiers of the German army who fought in Afghanistan and Kosovo.
Short answer: no
Ps: Hope they don’t search Snoopy & The Red Baron, lol!🤪
Can u do a episode on the confederete flag? It been worn by bands such as pantera and lynyrd skynyrd But its still viewed as racist. I personally think that its a symbol of heretige that is used by groups that have nothing to do with it But I Wear a lynyrd slynyrd patch on my jacket in confederete flag collors for the same reason as dimebag. Its tribute
I don't know as much about the Confederate Flag as I do the history of the Iron Cross but could be a very interesting video!
@@RAWMUSICTV it will be!
Also a HUGE Skynyrd fan as well!
@@RAWMUSICTV awsome. Whats your fav song by them?
"I Need You", Second Helping is just an incredible record!
No.
Ah yes the puritans used to go after the satanic imagery in metal as well.
its the same situation ad the swastika, its actually a peaceful symbol, but the nazis twisted it into their belief.
America read abit.....the iron cross has been around for alot longer than ww2...lol
I am a very PROUD Leather Clad Blondie Bombshell old school metalhead outlaw biker stoner transgurl..... TRANSGURL....member of the KISS ARMY (Mr. Demon calls me The Queen of the KISS ARMY Tranny Division and I am a Official WATAIN Disciple (with a number and Erik, Pella accept....so if they can accept me ..save your hate, it makes me stronger) I wear lots of leather I can attest sadly global warming is real). I wear lots of pentagrams, inverted crosses...and YES...I love all of my Iron Cross jewelry...be it necklaces to boot straps. A few are just straight Iron Crosses, a couple entangled is spider webs, dropping blood, etc. So if I am wearing them and never will stop and Paul Stanley (my hero) and love Gene as well I certainly would never want to disrespect them. I love MARDUK as well. I am trans, my heroes first and foremost are Jewish....for Mr the Iron Cross represents one thing: HEAVY METAL MUSIC......btw I am friends with and dearly love Stryper. Yet I love Watain so much....them Morbid Angel, Deicide, Mercyful Fate "The Oath" my favorite tune. This must be said, this leather clad metal transgurl Queen could never ever hate anyone based on their religion, race, creed, color. If anything I am reversing any kind of hate or negative stigma the Iron Cross. Now, I do have a copy of Mein Kampf , I fact under the title I taped "Republican, GOP Playbook." To me belonging to the Republican party is more evil than any iron cross, Pentagram or inverted cross that I wear. Over the years definitions evolve for certain terms or symbols. So NO it is not a sign of hate to me. I am registered Independent... being associated with likes of horrible people like MTG from Georgia, Ted Cruz, Boebert, the NRA I more evil than any supposed piece of jewelry I could ever wear. Sadly, my favorite guitarist of all time Ace Frehley loves to draw swastikas (which he did under Gene's name in a club on thec1990 Trouble Walkin' tour and it broke my heart.....yet he loves transgurls like me.
I hope so🤣
Marduk used it more than James. Marduk a band this Leather Clad Queen if Metal TRANSGURL... absolutely adores also sings about WW2 telling stories of wars, battles of the past. They write some tunes from the Nazi perspective, they are simply story telling and Morgan's grandfather was in WW2. Yet sadly a coward organization called Antifa labeled then a Nazi band. So much as protesting their shows in California and actually got one canceled. These are the same mask (NOT because of the pandemic) cowards of hypocrisy and hate that insists that it defends my trans community. NO THEY DO NOT. I do not need a group that participates in violence while wearing black masks to represent my plight.
Metallica is the only racially-integrated metal band I've ever seen.
The Iron Cross is not fucking racist I have one on my battle vest
I have them tattooed on my neck
It's racist against bozos.
no
No
so like many old symbols. it's a missunderstood symbol.
The Iron Cross is racist if it needs to be racist! Then again so is the Church, Milk and 2 parent homes! Get it, got it, good!
You know in America it seems strange that for a country with the 1st amendment protecting freedom of speech , religion and expression that so many support and prop up as symbolism of America and being American there are still certain things that are not allowed regardless! Freesom of speech is supposed to be absolute just like the 2nd amendment (understand before i say what im about to say this is not an endorsement in anyway nor is it my opinion but rather a simple observation) However if youre someone who has views that go against the society norm or whats considered acceptable your freedom of speech doesnt exist and not only that you will have people actively try to destroy any aspect of your life they can get too! I do not agree with any variation of racist groups but shouldn't a racist have the same freedom of speech as everyone else? Shouldnt every individual regardless of their opinions and how unpopular they are be entitled to that right as its written in the constitution? Doesnt really matter anymore because America is finished and currently doing its death rattle but in my opinion there is only one type of person who shouldnt be entitled to voice their opinions freely and openly without worry of retribution and wven in their case i feel they should be automatically dispatched and dead men dont speak! In case you're curious who i mean i cant really say or ill get banned but lets say someone is a member of N.A.M.B.L.A, they gotta go!
Duh it’s race associated. It’s fine, just a way to show firmness or pride. Not necessarily pointing negatively, yet nonetheless alluding something.
No it isn't
The actual symbol that Germany used in WW2, was not actually theirs, too. It was actually a symbol that was visuable on the walls of Ani Ruins (Currently in Kars, Turkey).
Sieg !
Oy vey shut it down!
Iron cross no racist ! Luftwaffe use iron cross in 2023 ..
The german Bundeswehr Use the iron cross Symbol on their vehicles.
Iron cross came from the Romans?
I love metal, but I'm from the south, so Bands like Pantera and Hellyeah will have not only in iron cross, but the rebel flag as well. I sport them both.
I've got one around my neck,tatted on my back & wife duz also
Who cares.
It is ignorant to think those who display this symbol are NOT identifying with white pride...The ambiguity is to their advantage.
why is everything racist these days?
It's not, everyone is just a snowflake
People gotta learn the difference between the swas-tica and a swas-tica tilted to the right
Left or right been used by a lot of different cultures through the ages. Maybe if used the opposite way to the Nazi version with multiple colours it could be used to represent multi culturism
Watching this video is racist. Waking up and thinking about Coffee is racist! Society is dumb and it’s not changing anything soon!
Commenting on this video is racist
If this is not racist try to find reggin wearing iron cross. Thank you
Soooo gay...
👍, freaking posers that would cry like a bitch if confronted by a true MAN. A man does not hide behind friends or security, a man would stand toe to toe if confronted, take a beat down and not think of a lawsuit.
Thats gaycist
?
@@jlopez0710 😂
The Iron cross is not a Swastika.
I'm worried of how many people want to cancel things over the pretext n*zis used them even when they die not create them. I mean, if we have to stop using everything they used we won't have a mot left
I highly doubt that outlaw biker gang members were also armchair German historians.