Now I understand why Joanna said that she did not need to confess any sins, and how God owes her an explanation things from her after seeing La Corona Partida. The death of Philip really took its toll on her, and the betrayal/negligence of her father, Ferdinand wherein Joanna pleaded so many times to see him. This is the time where Joanna finally gets to be at peace.
@@Lily1127channel how did she even live to 75? I mean, she kept herself healthily enough to reach that old age in captivitiy, i mean, keeping eating, drinking, washing, living, when it was clear I think at some point surely she would not be free again. Was she demented in her last days like her grandmother? Im really curious what went down in her last decades, after the communero revolt and Catherine leaving? I hope she found some peace of mind
I don't think that she was mad i think that it was men around her who wanted power told everyone that she was mad and isolated her so noone would ever doubt them.
Nuestra Reina Juana nunca estuvo loca. Fue traicionada par su marido,su padre y su hijo. Encerrada y vigilada,tratada como una criminal,Hija de los Reyes más grandes del mundo. Podría decirlo en inglés sin problema,pero hablo el idioma más bonito y rico del mundo: Español. .
And she wasn't . it was because of her strange behavior when her husband Philip the handsome died she developed a habit of carrying his body with her everywhere . Historians including myself believes that she was suffering from deep depression and her father and the others just made it much worst
She was mentally ill and in that era no one knew how to treat it or handle it. No one really doubts she had mental issues, not even today. Her husband and father probably made things worse for her but we will never know how ill she would have been with better people around her. There are accounts of her odd behaviors which could be propaganda against her, but there are some which there are no reason to doubt, e.g. the infamous La Mota incident, after which the locals started to call her La Loca (not her father or husnand or politicians).
@@Lily1127channel actually there are several historians who doubt that she was really "mad". The reason why she carried Philip's coffin around was that she wanted him buried in Granada which was his wish. Another reason they perceived or painted her as mad is because she mourned too much, but that might be maybe because she was sensitive and showed emotion openly. Her father and later her son used that to lock her up to take power. It wouldn't be surprising if she developed some strange behaviour after this because of the stress and isolation that she was in for 46 years. Lastly as an argument for her health is that the mental health problems that match behaviour would have been hereditary and for generations after her there were no "mad" Habsburgs (not counting Charles II. But that was because of so so much incest)
@@nano15j Today historians don't call her mad, but most historians agree that she had mental problems. It's still a debate how serious it was and what it was exactly. Depression, bipolarity, post partum, even scizophrenia are among the possibilities experts usually mention. But the consensus is that she had something, according to the most recent works on her from the 21st century. I know that the coffin tales probably have good reason, and the corpse kissing was probably just a wicked rumor. But there are other infamous incidents from the years even before Philip's death (e.g. La Mota in 1503) that certainly happened. She had a mentally very ill grandmother and great-grandchild, so hereditary disease certainly can't be ruled out. But mental illness can be non hereditary as well. Like psychopathy, which can be Type 1 or Type 2, with one type being hereditary (and not showing in every generation, only occasionally) and the other type being completely non hereditary and developing due to environmental factors. Besides, Joanna was also a product of incest, which apparently affected the physical health of some of her siblings. Maybe for her it was not physical but mental effect on health, who knows.
It's so sad how Juana died without any of her loved ones at her side, though she wasn't completely alone as Francisco de Borja was at her side, like in the series. It makes me wonder if his mother dying without her loved ones at her side is the reason why Carlos chose to die without any of his loved ones at his side. Legend even has it that after his retirement, he could actually hear her calling him.
Yes poor Juana; Philip was more than unworthy of her love. :( Although I have to admit, I really wonder if her love was more obsessive love than true love. Yes he treated her cruelly, but some of the things that she did certainly indicate obsession, e.g. attacking one of Philip's mistresses with scissors and cutting off the woman's hair, allegedly refusing to allow other women to come near his body and opening his coffin to kiss his rotting corpse, it certainly indicates that there were serious pathological issues on her part. Nevertheless, Juana's situation was terribly tragic and it does make me wonder what would've happened if she had married someone who would've been kinder to her or if Philip, himself, had been a nicer guy... personally, I do think it was her disastrous marriage that ultimately caused her to go off the rails. :(
Yes, there was no trace of madness in Juana before her marriage, actually she was considered a very intelligent daughter of the Catholic Monarchs. I think it was a quite obsessive love, far beyond reason, and she couldn't control it. Though in my opinion the scissor-scene was actually just an everyday reaction to infidelity, but other things, especially with his corpse, really suggest serious mental issues.
" I want to go so that others could rest. " Was she referring to Charles' desire to abdicate due to his declining health? Damn! Joanna said once she had no love to give her kids as all of his went to her husband but if this isn't love, I don't know what is, then.
I don't know if she knew about Charles's wish to abdicate, but she certainly knew that every power issue in Castile would be much clearer if she died. I think if Charles had died before her, the succession would not have been clear with her alive.
@@Lily1127channel Well, technically, it could have passed to his son, if he had been of age and declared ruling king by his grandmother, a bit like his own father, I guess.
Charles was designated by Joanna to rule in her name. If he had died, the question would have come up again who would rule in Joanna's name and she would have designated someone again.
Mad for her lack passion in religion... She was the most intelligent woman of her era. Her biggest error: trusting her father and her love for her husband.
She wasn't an atheist, that's just a popular misconception about her. She believed in God, by all accounts. She had her Bible in her captivity, she gave a Catholic education to her daughter Catherine. She attended mass, she just didn't like to confess, and that's what she refused in her last hours. Her last words were "Oh crucified one, help me". Not something a person who doesn't believe in God would say as last words.
You can get the episodes on DVD on Amazon, but I think that's only in Spanish, without subtitles. If you need English subtitles, there you can find those: www.opensubtitles.org/ssearch/sublanguageid-all/idmovie-368783
En la realidad si los queria, pero cuando eran muy pequeños la encerraron ahi y ya en 50 años no volvio a salir, se demuestra con catalina que la adoraba y ella queria a su madre y tambien la dejo ahi, carlos era por tenerla controlada y que no pensara mas de la cuenta, ella seguia siendo la reina y si ella queria a carlos ni ls migas
The series span over 40 years and this same actress played Joanna in the whole series, right from her 30s, that is why an actress in her 40s was cast for the role, I think. She had a lot of screentime playing the 40ish Joanna in previous episodes, after that she barely appeared. This death scene was one of the few exceptions.
@@Lily1127channel I also think Phillip II should have looked more closely to his portraits. In 1550s he already had short cut hair and small beard. Certainly not that 1990s (?) hairstyle as was shown in the series. Anyway, I'd really want to watch the entire series online somewhere with English subtitles but it's extremely dificult to find it.
I do not think Eleanor paid a visit before Joanna died. She visited Joanna only once I think. Joanna may have been "mad" but if a person is obsessed with a loved one, that is understandable. But whether this lasted for the remainder of her life is open to dispute. Everybody but Isabella I, her mother, Catherine of Aragon, her sister, and Catherine of Austria, her daughter who stood by her until it was time for her to marry, and possibly, her sister-in-law, Margaret of Austria, took advantage of her or neglected her - Ferdinand, her father, Philip, her husband, Charles, her son, and all of the rest of her children - Eleanor, Isabella, Ferdinand, Maria. Awful, awful, awful. Were it not for Joanna, Charles and his descendants would have no crowns in Castile and Aragon. Were it not for Joanna - Eleanor would not have been Queen of France and Portugal; Isabella, Queen of Denmark; Ferdinand, Holy Roman Emperor; Maria, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia; and Catherine, Queen of Portugal. Too busy to see their mama? Golly. I wonder if these ungrateful progeny could even dare to see the face of God in the afterlife. It is also nearly impossible that in their adulthood, they would have failed to see how Philip and Ferdinand locked up Joanna. Did they lift a finger to free their mama? No. Catherine tried but she could only do so much. Charles made sure Joanna would never reassert her authority as Queen of Castile and Aragon. Terrible, merciless sons and daughters.
Juana loved Philip no doubt about that but I rather think with Philip it was a love/hate thing he had for Juana. He loved her when it was conveinant for him too. It was very like the what Mary (later Queen Mary 1 of England ) felt for her husband Philip who was Juana's grandson.
I believe if Joanna could have a role in the court and especially raising her son and grandson, the fate of the dynasty would've been much different and they wouldn't have been as broken as they were by the end of 16th century. imagine, she was raised by Catholicism, but surely she wasn't radical as her parents, sister and niece (if you know who I'm referring to) and had much more flexible mind in accepting other religions and belief! Had she got the chance to raise her son or at least grandson, Phillip might have turned out into much more different king! I'm not saying that he would change his religion, but he could at least feel some sympathy towards reformation or least of all try to know some of his subjects in Netherlands and low countries. Joanna considered herself from Flanders and prefer their culture to Castile anyway. and if Phillip could see that side of his grandmother, maybe he would know his subjects better and be much more sympathetic to them, instead of cruelty and assault which we all know how that story went along and how it ended (80 years wars, anyone?) Spain wouldn't have lost one of its areas. or forget Phillip, Mary Of Hungary who was the governor in low countries. wouldn't she act much better if she had grown with the lessons she could learn from the mother who literally lived there? know the people and their attitude much better and be careful for her promises? cause let's be honest. Dutch didn't rebel just because of religion, they were more tired of shitty promises of Spanish governors and how little they even cared about them or knew them at all! the amount of enemies Carlos made in Germany after reformation, imagine if he could've been under influence of a mother that's much more flexible and tolerant. maybe if Phillip could raise with her grandmother's belief, he could also be much more tolerant towards his sister in-law (everyone knows who I'm talking about, don't pretend otherwise) and everything wouldn't have had ended in a war which cost Spain much more in the New World. in the end Joanna had a tragic life, but those that wronged her, became their own undoing by doing so and were punished terribly, even decades later.
Now I understand why Joanna said that she did not need to confess any sins, and how God owes her an explanation things from her after seeing La Corona Partida. The death of Philip really took its toll on her, and the betrayal/negligence of her father, Ferdinand wherein Joanna pleaded so many times to see him. This is the time where Joanna finally gets to be at peace.
Juana telling the priest that she didn't own God any confessions of sins were so powerful
This scene is quite different from what really happened.
@@parmandiltyelcanaro4318 And how it really happened?
@@Magdalenkaization The opposite.
Not exactly the opposite. Queen Joanna indeed refused to confess when she received the extreme unction on her deathbed by Francisco de Borja.
@@Lily1127channel how did she even live to 75? I mean, she kept herself healthily enough to reach that old age in captivitiy, i mean, keeping eating, drinking, washing, living, when it was clear I think at some point surely she would not be free again. Was she demented in her last days like her grandmother? Im really curious what went down in her last decades, after the communero revolt and Catherine leaving? I hope she found some peace of mind
Nunca he llorado a una escena de fallecimientos de personajes más que aquí, muy emocionante, y la música...
I don't think that she was mad i think that it was men around her who wanted power told everyone that she was mad and isolated her so noone would ever doubt them.
Nuestra Reina Juana nunca estuvo loca. Fue traicionada par su marido,su padre y su hijo. Encerrada y vigilada,tratada como una criminal,Hija de los Reyes más grandes del mundo. Podría decirlo en inglés sin problema,pero hablo el idioma más bonito y rico del mundo: Español.
.
And she wasn't . it was because of her strange behavior when her husband Philip the handsome died she developed a habit of carrying his body with her everywhere .
Historians including myself believes that she was suffering from deep depression and her father and the others just made it much worst
She was mentally ill and in that era no one knew how to treat it or handle it. No one really doubts she had mental issues, not even today. Her husband and father probably made things worse for her but we will never know how ill she would have been with better people around her. There are accounts of her odd behaviors which could be propaganda against her, but there are some which there are no reason to doubt, e.g. the infamous La Mota incident, after which the locals started to call her La Loca (not her father or husnand or politicians).
@@Lily1127channel actually there are several historians who doubt that she was really "mad". The reason why she carried Philip's coffin around was that she wanted him buried in Granada which was his wish. Another reason they perceived or painted her as mad is because she mourned too much, but that might be maybe because she was sensitive and showed emotion openly. Her father and later her son used that to lock her up to take power. It wouldn't be surprising if she developed some strange behaviour after this because of the stress and isolation that she was in for 46 years.
Lastly as an argument for her health is that the mental health problems that match behaviour would have been hereditary and for generations after her there were no "mad" Habsburgs (not counting Charles II. But that was because of so so much incest)
@@nano15j Today historians don't call her mad, but most historians agree that she had mental problems. It's still a debate how serious it was and what it was exactly. Depression, bipolarity, post partum, even scizophrenia are among the possibilities experts usually mention. But the consensus is that she had something, according to the most recent works on her from the 21st century.
I know that the coffin tales probably have good reason, and the corpse kissing was probably just a wicked rumor. But there are other infamous incidents from the years even before Philip's death (e.g. La Mota in 1503) that certainly happened.
She had a mentally very ill grandmother and great-grandchild, so hereditary disease certainly can't be ruled out. But mental illness can be non hereditary as well. Like psychopathy, which can be Type 1 or Type 2, with one type being hereditary (and not showing in every generation, only occasionally) and the other type being completely non hereditary and developing due to environmental factors. Besides, Joanna was also a product of incest, which apparently affected the physical health of some of her siblings. Maybe for her it was not physical but mental effect on health, who knows.
It's so sad how Juana died without any of her loved ones at her side, though she wasn't completely alone as Francisco de Borja was at her side, like in the series.
It makes me wonder if his mother dying without her loved ones at her side is the reason why Carlos chose to die without any of his loved ones at his side. Legend even has it that after his retirement, he could actually hear her calling him.
DarkDancer06 That could be the case, but Eleanor was by her side, when she took her last breath.
Es un buen motivo. Que lo haya decidido para aliviar su culpa. Lo de la leyenda no lo sabía
Amelia Bell, Leonor murió primero
@@Reyna97 no, leonor murió el mismo año que su hermano, 6 meses antes que el.
@@SPS0501US Eso dije, que Leonor murió primero que el emperador
Juana, Philip was not worthy of your so deep a love.
And I think somehow she knew that, too, for she says she knows Philip is not in heaven. She just couldn't help it.
Yes poor Juana; Philip was more than unworthy of her love. :(
Although I have to admit, I really wonder if her love was more obsessive love than true love. Yes he treated her cruelly, but some of the things that she did certainly indicate obsession, e.g. attacking one of Philip's mistresses with scissors and cutting off the woman's hair, allegedly refusing to allow other women to come near his body and opening his coffin to kiss his rotting corpse, it certainly indicates that there were serious pathological issues on her part.
Nevertheless, Juana's situation was terribly tragic and it does make me wonder what would've happened if she had married someone who would've been kinder to her or if Philip, himself, had been a nicer guy... personally, I do think it was her disastrous marriage that ultimately caused her to go off the rails. :(
Yes, there was no trace of madness in Juana before her marriage, actually she was considered a very intelligent daughter of the Catholic Monarchs. I think it was a quite obsessive love, far beyond reason, and she couldn't control it. Though in my opinion the scissor-scene was actually just an everyday reaction to infidelity, but other things, especially with his corpse, really suggest serious mental issues.
2:03 I don't blame you gurl! Betrayed by father, husband, son and God.
" I want to go so that others could rest. " Was she referring to Charles' desire to abdicate due to his declining health? Damn! Joanna said once she had no love to give her kids as all of his went to her husband but if this isn't love, I don't know what is, then.
I don't know if she knew about Charles's wish to abdicate, but she certainly knew that every power issue in Castile would be much clearer if she died. I think if Charles had died before her, the succession would not have been clear with her alive.
@@Lily1127channel Well, technically, it could have passed to his son, if he had been of age and declared ruling king by his grandmother, a bit like his own father, I guess.
Charles was designated by Joanna to rule in her name. If he had died, the question would have come up again who would rule in Joanna's name and she would have designated someone again.
I think it also refers to her daughters, who were suffering for her too. When you are so sick, you feel like a heavy burden upon others
how much philip kept his kids away from joanna. her six children will always remember their mother no matter what
Mad for her lack passion in religion... She was the most intelligent woman of her era. Her biggest error: trusting her father and her love for her husband.
She wasn't an atheist, that's just a popular misconception about her. She believed in God, by all accounts. She had her Bible in her captivity, she gave a Catholic education to her daughter Catherine. She attended mass, she just didn't like to confess, and that's what she refused in her last hours. Her last words were "Oh crucified one, help me". Not something a person who doesn't believe in God would say as last words.
HOW CAN I GET THIS MOVIE WHERE TO ORDER IT. PLEASE TELL ME..
You can get the episodes on DVD on Amazon, but I think that's only in Spanish, without subtitles. If you need English subtitles, there you can find those: www.opensubtitles.org/ssearch/sublanguageid-all/idmovie-368783
THANK YOU ITS OK SPANISH I DO THANKS AGAIN..
La verdad es que tuvo una vida espantosa la pobre. No sé por qué Carlos no la ayudó.
Porque casi no la conocí, no era una buena madre.
Porque los abandono ella nunca los amo o por lo menos no daba la impresión, carlos tuvo que ser criado por su tia a la cual consideraba su madre
En la realidad si los queria, pero cuando eran muy pequeños la encerraron ahi y ya en 50 años no volvio a salir, se demuestra con catalina que la adoraba y ella queria a su madre y tambien la dejo ahi, carlos era por tenerla controlada y que no pensara mas de la cuenta, ella seguia siendo la reina y si ella queria a carlos ni ls migas
si, todo por hacerla casar con felipe, pero bueno 😥😕
Al emperador Carlos,le interesaba tenerla,encerrada en Tordesillas,porque la Reina,era ella.
Wait , so Charles died only 3 years after her.
Yes, Juana dead in 1555, Carlos in 1558.
Si, aunque la verdadera razón de la muerte de Carlos V fue un mosquito
Eleanor and Mary died the same year. Eleanor in February and Mary in October
Juana was 76 when she died in 1555 and actress doesn't look older than 45.
The series span over 40 years and this same actress played Joanna in the whole series, right from her 30s, that is why an actress in her 40s was cast for the role, I think. She had a lot of screentime playing the 40ish Joanna in previous episodes, after that she barely appeared. This death scene was one of the few exceptions.
@@Lily1127channel I also think Phillip II should have looked more closely to his portraits. In 1550s he already had short cut hair and small beard. Certainly not that 1990s (?) hairstyle as was shown in the series.
Anyway, I'd really want to watch the entire series online somewhere with English subtitles but it's extremely dificult to find it.
I do not think Eleanor paid a visit before Joanna died. She visited Joanna only once I think. Joanna may have been "mad" but if a person is obsessed with a loved one, that is understandable. But whether this lasted for the remainder of her life is open to dispute. Everybody but Isabella I, her mother, Catherine of Aragon, her sister, and Catherine of Austria, her daughter who stood by her until it was time for her to marry, and possibly, her sister-in-law, Margaret of Austria, took advantage of her or neglected her - Ferdinand, her father, Philip, her husband, Charles, her son, and all of the rest of her children - Eleanor, Isabella, Ferdinand, Maria. Awful, awful, awful. Were it not for Joanna, Charles and his descendants would have no crowns in Castile and Aragon. Were it not for Joanna - Eleanor would not have been Queen of France and Portugal; Isabella, Queen of Denmark; Ferdinand, Holy Roman Emperor; Maria, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia; and Catherine, Queen of Portugal. Too busy to see their mama? Golly. I wonder if these ungrateful progeny could even dare to see the face of God in the afterlife. It is also nearly impossible that in their adulthood, they would have failed to see how Philip and Ferdinand locked up Joanna. Did they lift a finger to free their mama? No. Catherine tried but she could only do so much. Charles made sure Joanna would never reassert her authority as Queen of Castile and Aragon. Terrible, merciless sons and daughters.
Que razon tiene Juana cuando le dice a su nieto Felipe Que no ha conocido familia mas desprovista de compasión como la suya
Se quería en la vida y en la muerte
Juana loved Philip no doubt about that but I rather think with Philip it was a love/hate thing he had for Juana. He loved her when it was conveinant for him too.
It was very like the what Mary (later Queen Mary 1 of England ) felt for her husband Philip who was Juana's grandson.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you tell God to stick it.
Interestingly her son Charles v also suffered from deep depression in the later years of his reign. So I wonder how much of tht he inherited from her.
Yeass he also devoted husband just like his mother who devote to her husband
I believe if Joanna could have a role in the court and especially raising her son and grandson, the fate of the dynasty would've been much different and they wouldn't have been as broken as they were by the end of 16th century.
imagine, she was raised by Catholicism, but surely she wasn't radical as her parents, sister and niece (if you know who I'm referring to) and had much more flexible mind in accepting other religions and belief! Had she got the chance to raise her son or at least grandson, Phillip might have turned out into much more different king! I'm not saying that he would change his religion, but he could at least feel some sympathy towards reformation or least of all try to know some of his subjects in Netherlands and low countries. Joanna considered herself from Flanders and prefer their culture to Castile anyway. and if Phillip could see that side of his grandmother, maybe he would know his subjects better and be much more sympathetic to them, instead of cruelty and assault which we all know how that story went along and how it ended (80 years wars, anyone?) Spain wouldn't have lost one of its areas. or forget Phillip, Mary Of Hungary who was the governor in low countries. wouldn't she act much better if she had grown with the lessons she could learn from the mother who literally lived there? know the people and their attitude much better and be careful for her promises? cause let's be honest. Dutch didn't rebel just because of religion, they were more tired of shitty promises of Spanish governors and how little they even cared about them or knew them at all! the amount of enemies Carlos made in Germany after reformation, imagine if he could've been under influence of a mother that's much more flexible and tolerant. maybe if Phillip could raise with her grandmother's belief, he could also be much more tolerant towards his sister in-law (everyone knows who I'm talking about, don't pretend otherwise) and everything wouldn't have had ended in a war which cost Spain much more in the New World.
in the end Joanna had a tragic life, but those that wronged her, became their own undoing by doing so and were punished terribly, even decades later.