I would consider myself one of those young players. I was born in 2002, and I remember always getting put into timeout (devil child) in my dads office and watching him raid every night. By WoTLK, I was part of every raid and playing on my dads account when he wasn’t looking. Now, he’s unfortunately passed away, but I still travel to Azeroth to be with him. The young people are here!
That's really cool that you guys stayed longer after the Q&A. I know I felt lucky to get one of those quick photos with you two. When I had got in line they were telling most everyone after a certain point "they're not going to have time for you" and I felt a little defeated. Then I think everyone moved thru so quick that we were able to manage to get a photo. I think honestly a 2 hour meet and greet may be what you two need given your popularity.
I liked the red spoiler bot quest ending a lot. I got so excited seeing everyone show up to absolutely wreck Fryakk’s shit. And it felt satisfying bc all our coalition building came to fruition and all of Fryakk’s killing off his Allie’s, destroying his relationship with his sister and just the realization that he has no one to back him up and we literally got everyone to show up to beat some ass. Teaming up with 24-39 of your best buddies to wreck shit is the quintessential wow experience! Imo
You guys were so wonderful when I met you on the convention floor. I missed the meet & greet, so I was happy to run into you. You were so friendly and gracious. I appreciated it!
those expectations people have stem from legion. that expansion that was able to cash in on decades of lore to get hard-earned payoffs. velen's quest finally done, beautiful scene with kil'jaeden, who we have known since warcraft 3. sargeras finally seen in the game. illidan skull of gul'dan callback in nighthold cinematic. every other raid end cinematic since has been meh, people still don't realize after 7 years those legion quality cinematic payoffs aren't happening again any time soon.
Second comment after listening: Bloody loved this! Prime T&E content. Blizzcon stories were really insightful and fun. Whenever the two of you are talking WoW together, this channel shines twice as bright (and it already shines pretty bright!) As for 10.2, I think those two cutscenes are the low point in an otherwise really fun patch story. It's kind of hard to make an "Avengers assemble" moment hit when most of the characters showing up haven't been relevant all expansion, their inability TO show up was established 5 minutes earlier, and the stakes are undercut by the existence of a later raid. And it just kinda felt a bit hammy. But it's certainly inoffensive. Looking forward to more podcasts x
I hate that they treated you that bad, Evitel. You deserve better. I know you're not as present as back in Legion videos, but the channel is still "Taliesin AND Evitel" and we all get happy to see you and we miss you when you don't appear in the videos for months. Even the opening intros are better when we can see you both. Raising kids must be really hard for both and I hope next Blizzcon they give you the respect you both deserve.
Regarding the ending raid cinematic being in the wrong context is so apt. When the red spoiler bot warning went up I caved and left to go watch the cinematics. I honestly had to watch 1.5 vids because I thought the first vid was clickbait because no Fyrakk cutscenes made it apparent that anything was taking place after his defeat. I think it's awesome the Aspects got their power back from Azeroth instead of the Titans in conclusion, but it definitely would have made for a much better cutscene back in the capital or after an interlude turn-in after Fyrakk's defeat.
I think my gripe with the Avenger's assemble questline is that it should have been Khadgar to have said the line. And i don't think Alex should have said anything at all? Its a good example of show dont tell. Khadgar is someone we've followed and helped/had relevance throughout DF and he has ties to ALL of the characters who've showed up. Sure, let thrall be prominent next to him to signify the return of Metzen, but I just feel like Thrall wasn't involved here as much as the others. (yes i know his history with the aspects but hes been mia this entire xpac. Khadgars been with us for a bit)
I love the clothing style you both have, Evi with her cute glittery black top and Tali with his sweet blazers! Love you guys so much, I pray that my future wife and I also share the kind of bond that you guys have! ❤️ Such an inspiration you both have been for me, through all these years! ✨
Evitel is so nice, you can see by her face that she's a little bit worried about Taliesin saying Bellular was drunk. Which isn't necessarily nice to shout out into the ether.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 as someone who drinks plenty, it can just come across a bit rude if you straight away point out someone's state of intoxication, it can give off the impression they're a slob or that you judge them poorly. Calling someone a drunk is an insult. That being said I don't think it's a worry, but I can see the concern for sure
As someone who only came back to WoW a month ago after ~8 years away....I can definitely see why being around people at Blizzcon who enjoy the game/want to enjoy the game was refreshing. I forgot how negative the internet can be about Wow. And how often people are negative about the game even after they haven't played for years and don't know what changed. I guess it reflects how much this game once meant to them and at the same time boy it quickly gets tiring.
Holy shit, my spouse and I really must have lucked out big time. This was our first Blizzcon. We both got in to the opening ceremony, then after that we went and got pictures with the Inarius wings, and then the sword, all short waits. Then later that day we walked to get food somewhere off-site so we could sit down and decompress. Then we went back and did the Darkmoon Faire, won a Wrathion and red whelpling plushie from the plush-o-matic thing with the cubbies. We also ran into Ion the night before the con at the CVS around the corner from the convention center, poor man just wanted to get in and out with a loaf of bread. RIP. For us there were other problems. Two of the big ones were the queueing for entry to Blizzcon day 1, and then the merch hall. They were herding *everyone* up and down and around and across the streets just to get in to Blizzcon in the morning. The line was completely unpoliced and folks were straight-up just mass-skipping the apparent line to get into the con *walking in the street passed the cops* and no one from Blizzard's organizers was there communicating *anything*. It was a nightmare. And Portal Pass folks were apparently also being directed into the general population entry queue. Imagine spending $800 dollars, being forced into the general population queue despite paying for premium access, and then also not getting a guaranteed opening ceremony ticket. I felt so bad for folks with those orange bands, they got gamed HARD. The merch area was also a nightmare. My spouse and I had placed orders for pick-up days in advance and not only were they not ready when we did our due diligence to pick them up while the lines were manageable, when we came back to get our merch later the lines for merch pick-up were obscene. I don't know if we would ever order for pick-up again if we do another Blizzcon.
1:30:00 Overall about the raid cinematic discussion - You are missing the context of the fight. During the entire fight, past the first phase, the aspects and others are helping you save the seed and tree, trashtalking Fyrakk and he trashtalking back. Fyrakk says pretty specific and hurtful remarks to almost every aspect while the fight goes and escalates, and killing him at the end is pretty satisfying. So if the raid cinematic would be just him dying and "Oh nooo, I failed, you suck!" it would be even worse than what is there, imo.
1:20:45 The reason people don't like that moment is because it doesn't feel right for all of these race leaders to be here instead of the leaders of the dragonflights. Tyrande and maybe Baine sure it makes sense for them to be there because druidism is part of their cultures and the night elves have a big stake in making sure Amirdrassil lives, but it makes no sense for any of the other horde or alliance race leaders to be there ESPECIALLY THE FORSAKEN. It leaves you wondering why we helped out Kalecgos, Nozdormu, or Ebonhorn at all if they're not going to show up until the end of the raid cinematic where they did absolutely nothing to help and claim all the power of the aspects for themselves pretending like they have a reason to be there.
The dialogue -- excluding Matt Mercer's performance -- throughout the entire expansion has been completely awful as well. It's almost as bad as Shadowlands dialogue which was absolutely unbearable.
@@Jade-nn3bn the dialog has been horrible, I can’t tell if it’s the voice acting or if the lines are written poorly. That goes for almost every single quest npc across the entire board. Every time the Aspects open their mouths I’m expecting a box of crayons and a piece of paper.
I started playing wow when my parents started playing back in burning crusade and have attempted to keep up with wow every year since I was about 5 when I made my first character
I didn't like the family theme for the end cinematic. It made a lot of sense to me in the questlines for the blue and even black dragon flights, but for why the world soul is blessing them? Certainly the world soul has more important considerations. If it doesn't, that sounds like the world soul saga will be a bit more cheesy than I was expecting xD
Ve'nari is now our universe traveling contact and Warlocks whole questline during Legion was figuring out how to open portals to places we've never been to (using our gateways as mini Dark Portals in a way; Khadgar came around just in time to steal our work, so I'm sure HE will get the credit but...), all we need is a relic from the world we are going to for us to open a portal. If they have any new 'Off Azeroth' expansion stuff, it will probably be just a couple zones with a hub in Azeroth, like the Cata hub, and I don't think they will ever make another expansion ENTIRELY devoid of Azeroth content (meaning they may add a few Azeroth zones to the hub too). I feel they may have finally realized they need to touchdown on Azeroth every expansion (or at least every other and off planet ones need quests that bring us back and/or tie us to Azeroth). Edit: I have never trusted the Titans, and my guild has an ongoing theory we've been collecting evidence of for a few expansions now. Azeroth is actually a First One (maybe the only and last). I think the Old Gods MIGHT be creatures of the Void, but we KNOW the Titans made one, why would we ever think that was the ONLY one they made? Azeroth is so connected to Life magic that I think we may actually be the Zereth of Life (maybe Zereth Vitae like how Zereth Mortis is death) and the Titans are printing races and trying to hyper evolve one with the Well of Eternity that will FOLLOW THEIR ORDER. They twisted dragons, trolls/elves (which I think are evolved grell), and forced evolution of many animal races that were given life by Azeroth as the Earth Mother, as well as printing us from Titan discs they brought from planets they have destroyed from across the universe (which is likely where the Legion came from, an army of displaced creatures coming to destroy the Titans plans) with the Life-Printer Elegon. Then, when they are sick of us breaking their rules the 'Re-Originate' us when Algalon tells them we've been naughty by turning us to stone (petrification) and activate us as Titan constructs. They make the stoned race build a Titan facility to house their own history, like how we found the Mogu, and sometimes we return to sentience accidentally and they blame it on the Old Gods and call it a 'Curse of Flesh' because they see us as a bane.
They noticed that the line to the meet & greet exploded even before everyone got to the area and tried to tell people that they should rather leave again at a certain spot in the queue - but mostly everyone stayed - so they made the change (and were quite strict with it) to either take a photo or get a signature and don't really talk to anyone - it was really nice to say Hi at least - but ye - they made everyone feel really pressured since the security was trying to give peeps max 15-20 seconds each ....
I love the story of Tali before the first live weekly reset wirh Evi getting all dressed up for the dinner before with the amazing humans. Its such a cute sneak peek into your relationship
I love that you're doing podcasts! I know there's a video component to this but I found it funny as I was working whilst listening that at 44:21 Taliesin is pulling a face but to me it was a few seconds of silence.
A lot of the complaints seem like a copy paste of the same forum post over and over again. Those posts were before anyone even did the quests lol The raid end cinematic would’ve been cool like , after a cool badass one but I do admit it was kinda goofy
Tbh I feel like we're already at 4/7 chapter of the world soul saga. It began in Legion and every expansion since has been about the world soul in some level. DF might be the one that lest mentions it, but there's a lot of titan stuff and setting up Iridikron as the big bad for the endgame of the saga, but the saga itself began a long time ago.
1:16:50 I've been playing WoW for a long time, the only time I thought of disneyfication / theme park was when I recently finished my hardcore journey to 60 and decided to create a new character to go check how some of the zones changed. Un'goro Crater looks so much worse in modern wow, the atmosphere is completely gone, there is no fog, the very fact that the crystals are neatly organized in 4 quadrants helps give it a feel of something organized for your entertainment rather than a scary place with lots of mysteries in which you can be surprised by a big t-rex at any point and get killed. And the Diemetradon and Devilsaurs look more like toys. I did not remember it being such a downgrade, maybe because I never went through the whole world again after TBC. That said, just after that I played the Dream questchain that led to those bloody bodies and I immediately thought of how WoW is not shying away of the rough, tragic, at any point. I am happy with the stories, I do wish the world starts feeling bigger and more mysterious again, though.
The whole thing about BlizzCon and the excitement about the game and it’s developers is a really cool thing. I wish I still had that excitement that I once did. But it’s been 18+ years for me so the excitement isn’t the same. I am happy for those that still feel that way though. That’s amazing. Maybe wow change the game and made an MSU that guided you through all the contents and expansions without making anything obsolete or irrelevant then some of that excitement will come back. Maybe then I’ll buy a ticket to go to Bizon.
The discussion about young wow players is so interesting to me. Both of my parents have played wow since late classic/tbc and i started in wrath when i was 8 (but i didn’t play seriously until legion). What’s weird to me is that because of my situation I’ve only ever been in my dad’s guild, and while my guildies are great they are all over 30 (most are middle aged) and I have never played wow with someone my age :/
Old wow from classic to wrath had a lot of young players too. Like almost a split balance between 30+ and 5-29. Now in modern times around WoD, you have way less younger players in WoW because there is way more games to play than just WoW. Way more options of multiplayer games than before is the reason why not a lot of young players in WoW.
The fundamental reason WoW now has 3 know to us expansions was to keep as many people as possible from quitting the game after DF ends. Havine people know what will happen keeps them excited and more likely to be playing the game, thus sub'ing. It's what they figure they should do after SL's and DF's reception when you compare them.
You guys talk about how the cinematic conveyed this interesting change in where the aspects got their powers from and I'm with you that is the part that really makes this cutscene cool despite its issues. That said I was really dissapointed as I feel like a lot of people are missing that that's really the main point of the cinematic, despite the scene being very "telly" rather than "showy" if that makes sense. It feels like it kind of has the worst of both worlds in that way. Anyways, the stuff this sets up is really cool at least, and I'm with you guys that the avengers assemble scene is actually pretty cool when you have the context of the huge battle scene afterwards (I do wish the characters had more dialogue there tho, especially the rexxar campaign buddies).
That cutscene would be far more superior if the character only spoke like 3 or 4 sentences instead of that massive dialogue. Show us his anger from what we see. If done like that, the impact of him opening the rift to go directly to the tree would be more impressive. Him explaining in exposition about what we can see for ourselves makes his dialogue pointless and annoying because " yeah dude, stfu, we can see what you are describing". Show more, tell less definitely would've served that cutscene way way better than what we got.
Even with the context of the huge battle scene afterwards it doesn't make sense for the non-druidic leaders of the factions to be there, especially the Forsaken after what they did to Teldrassil. It would have been much more satisfying if it was simply Baine, Tyrande, and the other dragonflights there to help Alexstrazsa instead.
Low t soy i infused cinematic for low t soy infused expansion story...makes sense. Move along and consume products. I blame sheepishly accepting bad writing and shills saying to subscribers: "you are meanies for criticizing that poor company"
I loved the quest leading up to the raid, the "avengers" quest was amazing, i got so hyped and i was like choked up that everyone came. To see Genn say the line about repaying a favor to the night elves, i was so choked up. It was fantastic. The Fyrakk ending cinematic sucked. like It was cute but it sucked somehow, it was too "cutesy" too quickly after killing fyrakk. His end needed to be moreviolent, becuase he was so violent. I really wanted a big Tyrande flex with a kill steal or soemthing. ANYTHING. Like you said, the cinematic we got should have been a final turn in.
Will these be only available on YT or to listen in pod apps or spotify etc? Sorry if its mentioned in the video, I haven't listed to all of it because i'm a busy buy and would love to listen to this on the go.
The issue with the Disneyffication is not how the game follows that model game in the gameplay and cinematics, it's people misrepresenting (as Tali said) what Blizz meant when they used the term, it's not a 1:1 thing, it's a basically like mimic something via the medium of a caricature, they are using an approximation of the model Disney is using, that is not a bad thing and has nothing to do with feminity. People somehow forget how Fyrrak killed that mage in the shield with no mercy, and the rest after he tried to break the shield himself... People man...
The Incarnates were the only dragons that didn’t feel like gumdrops. The dragons really don’t feel like dragons, everytime the Aspects open their mouths to speak through the entire expansion I fully expect a box of crayons and a piece of paper.
Was the "Bigger Baddie" that the jailer was going cuckoo for the void? if not then that could be what comes after the last titan. Unless blizz decides to shove that under a rug since it was pretty dang stupid.
I was at Blizzcon too, and had hoped to meet you two, but did not manage that once again. XD I was very disappointed with how Blizzcon itself turned out this year and I have sent in my feedback onto the forums and the survey that AXS sent out as well. I did not manage to get into Darkmoon Faire at all this year and I usually spend quite a bit of time in there, and I also sorely missed all the panels. (I did get a real tattoo from Hell's Ink - though I tried really hard for that which included being outside at 6am to be in the first wave to get in the building XD ). I hope I can go i n person again and maybe I will manage to meet you both that time! - Eluvia
What i dislike about the term "Aspectral" powers is is not the new terminology about it but rather the vagueness of it and that's not a new thing, i mean, other than immortality, what else is known about these powers exactly? Is it me not being informed enough on this matter or...?
Fun fact, Greek alphabet has only 24 letters, so Ω isn't as far down its list as Z is. You could be an ん, which is a sort of an N sound (or occasionally an M sound), that's the 46th character in the Japanese "alphabet". (depending on how you define alphabet).
Blizzard went cheap this blizzcon. That was my overall impression. Very odd for the big exciting "Blizz con is back after four years" thing. The long opening ceremony was honestly putting me to sleep (that's not a joke btw. I was LITERALLY laying down on my couch and closing my eyes at one point). I agree with what you both said as well it was just totally streamlined, I'd call it "utilitarian" -- Blizz con wasn't about enjoying it this year it was "just get the info out and tell everyone to go home". No panels for the stream -- where was the art panels? Where was the just hanging out with the devs kind of panels? How about the sound panels? Some of it was nerdy but hey I enjoyed that stuff. I like learning how people do stuff and make stuff. I've been that way since I was in grade school and its about 40 years later and I'm still that way. The kpop concert totally zero interest but I'm a gen X -- a game company is targeting Gen Z dollars now -- so I get it but still my point is even the concert offered me no interest.
I feel like Azeroth might not be fully titan in a way. With the Old Gods, Elun'ahir and now Amirdrassil, she's been surrounded/touched by void, life and death magic. So while she herself is order, she might have been changed/influenced by all these other magics. Sort of nature vs nurture :D
The volume is much much quieter than your usual videos even though I cranked my vol up to max. Would be good if you could boost the volune up a bit for future videos. I've been watching your content for a long time! Keep up the good work!
That the World Soul blessed the Aspects not the Titans thing struck as odd as if a World Soul does not necessarily become a Titan when born, but could turn into something else instead?... Maybe I am interpreting `too much into this?
From my experience, my friends and I arent talking about the quests. The 10.2 experience, for the most part, is incredible, in my opinion. I think the main contention point being discussed is more around the last cutscenes and how poorly they were written. (Especially in contrast to the latest expansion reveal). I felt like it didn't match the tone of the quests in the new zone and the feeling of urgancy from the quest you borh describe (i loved that quest! Seeing rexar etc). The writing and delivery were strange(in the cutscene), and to me and it seems many others felt bland and a big let down. Even if it was a turn in quest, i dont even think the whole situation even warrented a cutscene to begin with
The campaign finale wasn't bad, it's just that it should've been all the flights showing up, NOT characters that had no role in the expansion at any point. I hope the final cinematic of the expansion leading into War Within is much much much better
As normal, natural, unscripted people - your content is really enjoyable. Everything in the world is so fake right now. We want authenticity not just from you guys - but from everyone. That's why it's so important to concede Blizzard's mistakes - which you do in this episode to great effect. Probably a little long, but still good stuff
I honestly don’t think you’re right about executives ruining the cut scene. Sometimes creative people fail. If you worked in games you’d realize stuff often just sucks until it doesn’t. We round out the rough edges with everyone’s good taste. But sometimes the original concept just can’t be polished, and often we run out of time and put together something that works well enough.
If you didn’t have a better term to describe what it feels like from some of our point of view it does feel like those cinematics feel flat and felt kind of like Disney. I’m generally cool with Anduin’s struggles with PTSD and the fact he lost the light but he has to rise up and start doing something big really soon. Cry Baby Anduin is getting old for a lot of people really fast. Hence the discourse. I’m also someone who originally enjoyed some of the first Marvel movies but then I just ended up loathing the new ones because they just keep beating a dead horse with the franchise…
I just realize what would make that ''avengers'' moment better, if Malfurion was there, imagine same cinematic but before heroes came there Malfurion blow cenarious horn like in w3 final campaign where he summon wisps onto Archimonde
intrusive thought into the conversation: "aspetral" does not even make sense, an aspect (noun) > aspect-al/-ish/-ic/-ene/-ese/... (adjective) these are adjective-making suffixes of which many dont make any sense in this case but at least _they exist_ ... "-ral" is no existing suffix and "aspectral" seems like "a spectral [tiger]" >_>
Hearing these details about Blizzcon really lowers my expectations for the future of their games. How can they mess up the event planning this terribly..
Talking about the cutscene being disliked, I think a good comparison is a scene in FFxiv: (spoilers below) When in the final battle you're fighting Endsinger, a similar thing happens for you where you're saved by dynamis brought about by the scions, and it cuts to each scion praying for you. The comparison to WoW's cut-scene here would be if instead of just cutting to the scions, it also cuts to each person waiting down in Sharlayan, and looks at each of them doing their own praying scene, even characters you haven't interacted with since multiple expansions ago. It would honestly bog the scene down and really take away from the moment being about you and the scions. That whole cutscene should have just been about the dragons tbh. That said, I still liked the follow up horn blowing, with Cenarius making fun of it just because it's his own boon.
And the quest about getting there powers back they need to reanimate tyr..but they totally went another way. now what about tyr. they don't need him anymore..so now what?
Thanks for moving the podcast a day forward so Blizzard would announce 10.2.5 immediately after c:
George Carlin said that (paraphrasing) - 68 is "you do me and i'll owe you one."
It's like the sofa bit for two hours. 10/10 please continue.
I would consider myself one of those young players. I was born in 2002, and I remember always getting put into timeout (devil child) in my dads office and watching him raid every night. By WoTLK, I was part of every raid and playing on my dads account when he wasn’t looking. Now, he’s unfortunately passed away, but I still travel to Azeroth to be with him. The young people are here!
That's really cool that you guys stayed longer after the Q&A. I know I felt lucky to get one of those quick photos with you two. When I had got in line they were telling most everyone after a certain point "they're not going to have time for you" and I felt a little defeated. Then I think everyone moved thru so quick that we were able to manage to get a photo.
I think honestly a 2 hour meet and greet may be what you two need given your popularity.
I liked the red spoiler bot quest ending a lot.
I got so excited seeing everyone show up to absolutely wreck Fryakk’s shit. And it felt satisfying bc all our coalition building came to fruition and all of Fryakk’s killing off his Allie’s, destroying his relationship with his sister and just the realization that he has no one to back him up and we literally got everyone to show up to beat some ass.
Teaming up with 24-39 of your best buddies to wreck shit is the quintessential wow experience! Imo
The funny thing is, I guessed 68 right away because I know what Tali finds funny
I guessed 67. I thought 68 would have been too on the nose.
haha same. Won't claim I was sure, but I expected it.
You guys were so wonderful when I met you on the convention floor. I missed the meet & greet, so I was happy to run into you. You were so friendly and gracious. I appreciated it!
those expectations people have stem from legion. that expansion that was able to cash in on decades of lore to get hard-earned payoffs. velen's quest finally done, beautiful scene with kil'jaeden, who we have known since warcraft 3. sargeras finally seen in the game. illidan skull of gul'dan callback in nighthold cinematic. every other raid end cinematic since has been meh, people still don't realize after 7 years those legion quality cinematic payoffs aren't happening again any time soon.
Second comment after listening:
Bloody loved this! Prime T&E content. Blizzcon stories were really insightful and fun. Whenever the two of you are talking WoW together, this channel shines twice as bright (and it already shines pretty bright!)
As for 10.2, I think those two cutscenes are the low point in an otherwise really fun patch story. It's kind of hard to make an "Avengers assemble" moment hit when most of the characters showing up haven't been relevant all expansion, their inability TO show up was established 5 minutes earlier, and the stakes are undercut by the existence of a later raid. And it just kinda felt a bit hammy. But it's certainly inoffensive.
Looking forward to more podcasts x
Agreed
I hate that they treated you that bad, Evitel. You deserve better. I know you're not as present as back in Legion videos, but the channel is still "Taliesin AND Evitel" and we all get happy to see you and we miss you when you don't appear in the videos for months. Even the opening intros are better when we can see you both. Raising kids must be really hard for both and I hope next Blizzcon they give you the respect you both deserve.
So thrilled to see this coming out! I’ve been dying for a super approachable WoW podcast, especially as a super casual player 🤩 can’t wait for more!
Regarding the ending raid cinematic being in the wrong context is so apt. When the red spoiler bot warning went up I caved and left to go watch the cinematics. I honestly had to watch 1.5 vids because I thought the first vid was clickbait because no Fyrakk cutscenes made it apparent that anything was taking place after his defeat.
I think it's awesome the Aspects got their power back from Azeroth instead of the Titans in conclusion, but it definitely would have made for a much better cutscene back in the capital or after an interlude turn-in after Fyrakk's defeat.
Your opening Delve joke at the live weekley reset was so good, i lol'd so hard
1:10:15 start of 10.2 talk
I think my gripe with the Avenger's assemble questline is that it should have been Khadgar to have said the line. And i don't think Alex should have said anything at all? Its a good example of show dont tell.
Khadgar is someone we've followed and helped/had relevance throughout DF and he has ties to ALL of the characters who've showed up. Sure, let thrall be prominent next to him to signify the return of Metzen, but I just feel like Thrall wasn't involved here as much as the others. (yes i know his history with the aspects but hes been mia this entire xpac. Khadgars been with us for a bit)
The funny thing about a 68 is that it's like a 69 but i owe you one.
I love the clothing style you both have, Evi with her cute glittery black top and Tali with his sweet blazers! Love you guys so much, I pray that my future wife and I also share the kind of bond that you guys have! ❤️ Such an inspiration you both have been for me, through all these years! ✨
Evitel is so nice, you can see by her face that she's a little bit worried about Taliesin saying Bellular was drunk. Which isn't necessarily nice to shout out into the ether.
What's wrong with being drunk?
@@Red1Green2Blue3 as someone who drinks plenty, it can just come across a bit rude if you straight away point out someone's state of intoxication, it can give off the impression they're a slob or that you judge them poorly. Calling someone a drunk is an insult. That being said I don't think it's a worry, but I can see the concern for sure
As someone who only came back to WoW a month ago after ~8 years away....I can definitely see why being around people at Blizzcon who enjoy the game/want to enjoy the game was refreshing. I forgot how negative the internet can be about Wow. And how often people are negative about the game even after they haven't played for years and don't know what changed. I guess it reflects how much this game once meant to them and at the same time boy it quickly gets tiring.
You should bring Garret on for a little Wow Killer revival!
Holy shit, my spouse and I really must have lucked out big time. This was our first Blizzcon. We both got in to the opening ceremony, then after that we went and got pictures with the Inarius wings, and then the sword, all short waits. Then later that day we walked to get food somewhere off-site so we could sit down and decompress. Then we went back and did the Darkmoon Faire, won a Wrathion and red whelpling plushie from the plush-o-matic thing with the cubbies. We also ran into Ion the night before the con at the CVS around the corner from the convention center, poor man just wanted to get in and out with a loaf of bread. RIP.
For us there were other problems. Two of the big ones were the queueing for entry to Blizzcon day 1, and then the merch hall. They were herding *everyone* up and down and around and across the streets just to get in to Blizzcon in the morning. The line was completely unpoliced and folks were straight-up just mass-skipping the apparent line to get into the con *walking in the street passed the cops* and no one from Blizzard's organizers was there communicating *anything*. It was a nightmare. And Portal Pass folks were apparently also being directed into the general population entry queue. Imagine spending $800 dollars, being forced into the general population queue despite paying for premium access, and then also not getting a guaranteed opening ceremony ticket. I felt so bad for folks with those orange bands, they got gamed HARD.
The merch area was also a nightmare. My spouse and I had placed orders for pick-up days in advance and not only were they not ready when we did our due diligence to pick them up while the lines were manageable, when we came back to get our merch later the lines for merch pick-up were obscene. I don't know if we would ever order for pick-up again if we do another Blizzcon.
1:30:00 Overall about the raid cinematic discussion - You are missing the context of the fight. During the entire fight, past the first phase, the aspects and others are helping you save the seed and tree, trashtalking Fyrakk and he trashtalking back. Fyrakk says pretty specific and hurtful remarks to almost every aspect while the fight goes and escalates, and killing him at the end is pretty satisfying. So if the raid cinematic would be just him dying and "Oh nooo, I failed, you suck!" it would be even worse than what is there, imo.
1:20:45 The reason people don't like that moment is because it doesn't feel right for all of these race leaders to be here instead of the leaders of the dragonflights. Tyrande and maybe Baine sure it makes sense for them to be there because druidism is part of their cultures and the night elves have a big stake in making sure Amirdrassil lives, but it makes no sense for any of the other horde or alliance race leaders to be there ESPECIALLY THE FORSAKEN. It leaves you wondering why we helped out Kalecgos, Nozdormu, or Ebonhorn at all if they're not going to show up until the end of the raid cinematic where they did absolutely nothing to help and claim all the power of the aspects for themselves pretending like they have a reason to be there.
The dialogue -- excluding Matt Mercer's performance -- throughout the entire expansion has been completely awful as well. It's almost as bad as Shadowlands dialogue which was absolutely unbearable.
@@Jade-nn3bn the dialog has been horrible, I can’t tell if it’s the voice acting or if the lines are written poorly. That goes for almost every single quest npc across the entire board.
Every time the Aspects open their mouths I’m expecting a box of crayons and a piece of paper.
The music that plays when you fly throguh Fyrakks model in the Emerald Dream has no business going as hard as it does.
I hope that convention co-ordinator guy got paid and didn't do it for free because he "enjoys it"
Really enjoyed this podcast video. Following your chat while crocheting was really nice
I started playing wow when my parents started playing back in burning crusade and have attempted to keep up with wow every year since I was about 5 when I made my first character
I didn't like the family theme for the end cinematic. It made a lot of sense to me in the questlines for the blue and even black dragon flights, but for why the world soul is blessing them? Certainly the world soul has more important considerations. If it doesn't, that sounds like the world soul saga will be a bit more cheesy than I was expecting xD
Ve'nari is now our universe traveling contact and Warlocks whole questline during Legion was figuring out how to open portals to places we've never been to (using our gateways as mini Dark Portals in a way; Khadgar came around just in time to steal our work, so I'm sure HE will get the credit but...), all we need is a relic from the world we are going to for us to open a portal.
If they have any new 'Off Azeroth' expansion stuff, it will probably be just a couple zones with a hub in Azeroth, like the Cata hub, and I don't think they will ever make another expansion ENTIRELY devoid of Azeroth content (meaning they may add a few Azeroth zones to the hub too). I feel they may have finally realized they need to touchdown on Azeroth every expansion (or at least every other and off planet ones need quests that bring us back and/or tie us to Azeroth).
Edit: I have never trusted the Titans, and my guild has an ongoing theory we've been collecting evidence of for a few expansions now. Azeroth is actually a First One (maybe the only and last). I think the Old Gods MIGHT be creatures of the Void, but we KNOW the Titans made one, why would we ever think that was the ONLY one they made? Azeroth is so connected to Life magic that I think we may actually be the Zereth of Life (maybe Zereth Vitae like how Zereth Mortis is death) and the Titans are printing races and trying to hyper evolve one with the Well of Eternity that will FOLLOW THEIR ORDER.
They twisted dragons, trolls/elves (which I think are evolved grell), and forced evolution of many animal races that were given life by Azeroth as the Earth Mother, as well as printing us from Titan discs they brought from planets they have destroyed from across the universe (which is likely where the Legion came from, an army of displaced creatures coming to destroy the Titans plans) with the Life-Printer Elegon.
Then, when they are sick of us breaking their rules the 'Re-Originate' us when Algalon tells them we've been naughty by turning us to stone (petrification) and activate us as Titan constructs. They make the stoned race build a Titan facility to house their own history, like how we found the Mogu, and sometimes we return to sentience accidentally and they blame it on the Old Gods and call it a 'Curse of Flesh' because they see us as a bane.
I love how the intro was, in fact, not edited out.
❤ don't change, Tali
They noticed that the line to the meet & greet exploded even before everyone got to the area and tried to tell people that they should rather leave again at a certain spot in the queue - but mostly everyone stayed - so they made the change (and were quite strict with it) to either take a photo or get a signature and don't really talk to anyone - it was really nice to say Hi at least - but ye - they made everyone feel really pressured since the security was trying to give peeps max 15-20 seconds each ....
I love the story of Tali before the first live weekly reset wirh Evi getting all dressed up for the dinner before with the amazing humans. Its such a cute sneak peek into your relationship
I love that you're doing podcasts! I know there's a video component to this but I found it funny as I was working whilst listening that at 44:21 Taliesin is pulling a face but to me it was a few seconds of silence.
Even with context. It makes zero sense for Velen & Turalyon to be there. Really my only issue with it.
A lot of the complaints seem like a copy paste of the same forum post over and over again. Those posts were before anyone even did the quests lol The raid end cinematic would’ve been cool like , after a cool badass one but I do admit it was kinda goofy
Tbh I feel like we're already at 4/7 chapter of the world soul saga. It began in Legion and every expansion since has been about the world soul in some level. DF might be the one that lest mentions it, but there's a lot of titan stuff and setting up Iridikron as the big bad for the endgame of the saga, but the saga itself began a long time ago.
1:16:50 I've been playing WoW for a long time, the only time I thought of disneyfication / theme park was when I recently finished my hardcore journey to 60 and decided to create a new character to go check how some of the zones changed. Un'goro Crater looks so much worse in modern wow, the atmosphere is completely gone, there is no fog, the very fact that the crystals are neatly organized in 4 quadrants helps give it a feel of something organized for your entertainment rather than a scary place with lots of mysteries in which you can be surprised by a big t-rex at any point and get killed. And the Diemetradon and Devilsaurs look more like toys. I did not remember it being such a downgrade, maybe because I never went through the whole world again after TBC.
That said, just after that I played the Dream questchain that led to those bloody bodies and I immediately thought of how WoW is not shying away of the rough, tragic, at any point. I am happy with the stories, I do wish the world starts feeling bigger and more mysterious again, though.
Dang, I want a giant tree portrait on my wall! Beautiful!
Nearly two hours of my faves let's gooo
The whole thing about BlizzCon and the excitement about the game and it’s developers is a really cool thing. I wish I still had that excitement that I once did. But it’s been 18+ years for me so the excitement isn’t the same. I am happy for those that still feel that way though. That’s amazing.
Maybe wow change the game and made an MSU that guided you through all the contents and expansions without making anything obsolete or irrelevant then some of that excitement will come back. Maybe then I’ll buy a ticket to go to Bizon.
Oh I caught that "sounds good makes sense" at the end, omg, laughed so hard
I'm already itching for the next episode with the 10.2.5 news drop
68 and I owe you one. Classic.
I watched this twice, but listened once, mom came by. Just thought you should know. Party on
The discussion about young wow players is so interesting to me. Both of my parents have played wow since late classic/tbc and i started in wrath when i was 8 (but i didn’t play seriously until legion). What’s weird to me is that because of my situation I’ve only ever been in my dad’s guild, and while my guildies are great they are all over 30 (most are middle aged) and I have never played wow with someone my age :/
Old wow from classic to wrath had a lot of young players too. Like almost a split balance between 30+ and 5-29. Now in modern times around WoD, you have way less younger players in WoW because there is way more games to play than just WoW. Way more options of multiplayer games than before is the reason why not a lot of young players in WoW.
My 6yr old has started playing it after seeing me since the beginning of his time… he loves it! ☺️
The fundamental reason WoW now has 3 know to us expansions was to keep as many people as possible from quitting the game after DF ends.
Havine people know what will happen keeps them excited and more likely to be playing the game, thus sub'ing.
It's what they figure they should do after SL's and DF's reception when you compare them.
You guys talk about how the cinematic conveyed this interesting change in where the aspects got their powers from and I'm with you that is the part that really makes this cutscene cool despite its issues. That said I was really dissapointed as I feel like a lot of people are missing that that's really the main point of the cinematic, despite the scene being very "telly" rather than "showy" if that makes sense. It feels like it kind of has the worst of both worlds in that way.
Anyways, the stuff this sets up is really cool at least, and I'm with you guys that the avengers assemble scene is actually pretty cool when you have the context of the huge battle scene afterwards (I do wish the characters had more dialogue there tho, especially the rexxar campaign buddies).
That cutscene would be far more superior if the character only spoke like 3 or 4 sentences instead of that massive dialogue. Show us his anger from what we see. If done like that, the impact of him opening the rift to go directly to the tree would be more impressive. Him explaining in exposition about what we can see for ourselves makes his dialogue pointless and annoying because " yeah dude, stfu, we can see what you are describing". Show more, tell less definitely would've served that cutscene way way better than what we got.
Even with the context of the huge battle scene afterwards it doesn't make sense for the non-druidic leaders of the factions to be there, especially the Forsaken after what they did to Teldrassil. It would have been much more satisfying if it was simply Baine, Tyrande, and the other dragonflights there to help Alexstrazsa instead.
Why don't we get a REAL cinematic for the FINALE. what the heck man.
Low t soy i infused cinematic for low t soy infused expansion story...makes sense. Move along and consume products. I blame sheepishly accepting bad writing and shills saying to subscribers: "you are meanies for criticizing that poor company"
I loved the quest leading up to the raid, the "avengers" quest was amazing, i got so hyped and i was like choked up that everyone came. To see Genn say the line about repaying a favor to the night elves, i was so choked up. It was fantastic.
The Fyrakk ending cinematic sucked. like It was cute but it sucked somehow, it was too "cutesy" too quickly after killing fyrakk. His end needed to be moreviolent, becuase he was so violent. I really wanted a big Tyrande flex with a kill steal or soemthing. ANYTHING. Like you said, the cinematic we got should have been a final turn in.
Will these be only available on YT or to listen in pod apps or spotify etc? Sorry if its mentioned in the video, I haven't listed to all of it because i'm a busy buy and would love to listen to this on the go.
The issue with the Disneyffication is not how the game follows that model game in the gameplay and cinematics, it's people misrepresenting (as Tali said) what Blizz meant when they used the term, it's not a 1:1 thing, it's a basically like mimic something via the medium of a caricature, they are using an approximation of the model Disney is using, that is not a bad thing and has nothing to do with feminity.
People somehow forget how Fyrrak killed that mage in the shield with no mercy, and the rest after he tried to break the shield himself...
People man...
The Incarnates were the only dragons that didn’t feel like gumdrops. The dragons really don’t feel like dragons, everytime the Aspects open their mouths to speak through the entire expansion I fully expect a box of crayons and a piece of paper.
Stream starts at 17:20 ish
ish lmao 👍
The hero we needed
Was the "Bigger Baddie" that the jailer was going cuckoo for the void? if not then that could be what comes after the last titan. Unless blizz decides to shove that under a rug since it was pretty dang stupid.
I loved this... and can't wait for the Monthly Reset Stream Clip ;)
As a Londoner take my both hands for the Live Weekly Reset in London. What should I sign and where to buy the tickets?
I was at Blizzcon too, and had hoped to meet you two, but did not manage that once again. XD I was very disappointed with how Blizzcon itself turned out this year and I have sent in my feedback onto the forums and the survey that AXS sent out as well.
I did not manage to get into Darkmoon Faire at all this year and I usually spend quite a bit of time in there, and I also sorely missed all the panels. (I did get a real tattoo from Hell's Ink - though I tried really hard for that which included being outside at 6am to be in the first wave to get in the building XD ).
I hope I can go i n person again and maybe I will manage to meet you both that time! - Eluvia
What i dislike about the term "Aspectral" powers is is not the new terminology about it but rather the vagueness of it and that's not a new thing, i mean, other than immortality, what else is known about these powers exactly?
Is it me not being informed enough on this matter or...?
Maaan...I remember LiveJournal. I had Sephiroth on my front page. That was a time.
Fun fact, Greek alphabet has only 24 letters, so Ω isn't as far down its list as Z is. You could be an ん, which is a sort of an N sound (or occasionally an M sound), that's the 46th character in the Japanese "alphabet". (depending on how you define alphabet).
Blizzard went cheap this blizzcon. That was my overall impression. Very odd for the big exciting "Blizz con is back after four years" thing. The long opening ceremony was honestly putting me to sleep (that's not a joke btw. I was LITERALLY laying down on my couch and closing my eyes at one point). I agree with what you both said as well it was just totally streamlined, I'd call it "utilitarian" -- Blizz con wasn't about enjoying it this year it was "just get the info out and tell everyone to go home". No panels for the stream -- where was the art panels? Where was the just hanging out with the devs kind of panels? How about the sound panels? Some of it was nerdy but hey I enjoyed that stuff. I like learning how people do stuff and make stuff. I've been that way since I was in grade school and its about 40 years later and I'm still that way. The kpop concert totally zero interest but I'm a gen X -- a game company is targeting Gen Z dollars now -- so I get it but still my point is even the concert offered me no interest.
lmao I have a selfie video of the KPop band appearing suddenly behind me in the Diablo hall with their security. Can fully relate
I feel like Azeroth might not be fully titan in a way. With the Old Gods, Elun'ahir and now Amirdrassil, she's been surrounded/touched by void, life and death magic. So while she herself is order, she might have been changed/influenced by all these other magics. Sort of nature vs nurture :D
just get a big fish-eye lens Tali, then you and Evi can look like you're in a 90s music video
You could even make a case for BFA being the start of the World Soul Saga. You’d just have to say Shadowlands is a spinoff.
When do we get a crossover between you and Grinding Gear!? Get the WoW Killer back haha!
WoW Killer including Evi and Kyle would be fantastic
@@Kritigri Right?!
I really dislike the ending cinematics for various reasons, but I totally agree that they could be improved if the VA direction was better.
It was fun, do this more!
68 certainly is funnier than 70.
Would love it on the main channel + plans to have guests on?
Those two lovelies have the exact same facial proportions! Check it.
Will the podcast be released on podcast apps as well? Like Spotify?
The volume is much much quieter than your usual videos even though I cranked my vol up to max. Would be good if you could boost the volune up a bit for future videos. I've been watching your content for a long time! Keep up the good work!
That the World Soul blessed the Aspects not the Titans thing struck as odd as if a World Soul does not necessarily become a Titan when born, but could turn into something else instead?... Maybe I am interpreting `too much into this?
Gonna love these.
From my experience, my friends and I arent talking about the quests. The 10.2 experience, for the most part, is incredible, in my opinion.
I think the main contention point being discussed is more around the last cutscenes and how poorly they were written. (Especially in contrast to the latest expansion reveal). I felt like it didn't match the tone of the quests in the new zone and the feeling of urgancy from the quest you borh describe (i loved that quest! Seeing rexar etc). The writing and delivery were strange(in the cutscene), and to me and it seems many others felt bland and a big let down. Even if it was a turn in quest, i dont even think the whole situation even warrented a cutscene to begin with
The campaign finale wasn't bad, it's just that it should've been all the flights showing up, NOT characters that had no role in the expansion at any point. I hope the final cinematic of the expansion leading into War Within is much much much better
As normal, natural, unscripted people - your content is really enjoyable. Everything in the world is so fake right now. We want authenticity not just from you guys - but from everyone. That's why it's so important to concede Blizzard's mistakes - which you do in this episode to great effect. Probably a little long, but still good stuff
I honestly don’t think you’re right about executives ruining the cut scene. Sometimes creative people fail. If you worked in games you’d realize stuff often just sucks until it doesn’t. We round out the rough edges with everyone’s good taste. But sometimes the original concept just can’t be polished, and often we run out of time and put together something that works well enough.
Great podcast :)
If you didn’t have a better term to describe what it feels like from some of our point of view it does feel like those cinematics feel flat and felt kind of like Disney.
I’m generally cool with Anduin’s struggles with PTSD and the fact he lost the light but he has to rise up and start doing something big really soon. Cry Baby Anduin is getting old for a lot of people really fast. Hence the discourse.
I’m also someone who originally enjoyed some of the first Marvel movies but then I just ended up loathing the new ones because they just keep beating a dead horse with the franchise…
I just realize what would make that ''avengers'' moment better, if Malfurion was there, imagine same cinematic but before heroes came there Malfurion blow cenarious horn like in w3 final campaign where he summon wisps onto Archimonde
"Are they an Overwatch team?"
Well theyre all Korean, so close enough!
why is her camera so washed out? good pod! love the content.
You should rent Evi's sixhead for some ad space.
Evitel won the world first on playing in MMO in outer space.
intrusive thought into the conversation: "aspetral" does not even make sense, an aspect (noun) > aspect-al/-ish/-ic/-ene/-ese/... (adjective) these are adjective-making suffixes of which many dont make any sense in this case but at least _they exist_ ... "-ral" is no existing suffix and "aspectral" seems like "a spectral [tiger]" >_>
You live in SWANSEA?!
Id come to a live thing (:
Hearing these details about Blizzcon really lowers my expectations for the future of their games. How can they mess up the event planning this terribly..
Joined up? Oh no someone else calls it that too 1:28
Doesn't seem like it was a very accessible event, either!
Talie was getting channeled! Bahahahaha
This format will be better on the second channel! ❤
i knew i liked evitel for more than her personality, polish gang
am i the only one who LOVED the raid ending cinematic? lol i adore it
Most probably the only one yea
interaction, obviously
Talking about the cutscene being disliked, I think a good comparison is a scene in FFxiv: (spoilers below)
When in the final battle you're fighting Endsinger, a similar thing happens for you where you're saved by dynamis brought about by the scions, and it cuts to each scion praying for you. The comparison to WoW's cut-scene here would be if instead of just cutting to the scions, it also cuts to each person waiting down in Sharlayan, and looks at each of them doing their own praying scene, even characters you haven't interacted with since multiple expansions ago. It would honestly bog the scene down and really take away from the moment being about you and the scions. That whole cutscene should have just been about the dragons tbh.
That said, I still liked the follow up horn blowing, with Cenarius making fun of it just because it's his own boon.
And the quest about getting there powers back they need to reanimate tyr..but they totally went another way. now what about tyr. they don't need him anymore..so now what?