The twin cam 4 cylinder engine actually originated with the little Guilietta saloon in 1954 at just 1290cc, with a single carburettor. Later installed in the Guilietta Sprint and Spider Veloce models with twin Weber 40s producing as much as 90bhp ( yes from just 1290cc! ) later enlarged to 1570cc for the Giulia 101 series (similar style to the Guilietta ) and 105 series . This engine was also originally designed by Busso as well Eng, Satta . Later enlarged to 1779cc and then 1962cc , these engines saw there way to the 1970s/80s / 90s into the 75 and 164 models with the Twin Spark 2 plug per cylinder producing 148 bhp in non CAT , or with 142 bhp , with CAT . Later design in 1992, for the revised series 2 164 models came with a big investment from FIAT to continue with a revised unit 1995cc , but keeping the all alloy chain driven design , so not to be confused with the Fiat/ Lancia block of the same capacity, which had an cast iron block as was belt driven . This new engine was set to cope with more tightening emissions.
Absolutely right, this was the very final iteration of a long-lived Alfa Romeo designed four-cylinder engine, and it had nothing to do with the Fiat "Pratola Sierra" based Twin Spark engines fitted to other Alfas I have driven like the 145 and 166.
“You either really want one of these… or you don’t, and you’re prepared to put up with a few foibles” is probably the most succinct expression of Alfa Romeo ownership ever. As you say, these are rare but they must have outsold the Thema and Croma in the UK, if not the Saab 9000. I can’t remember the last time I saw a Thema or Croma on the road.
Absolutely, you need to put up with a few foibles as far as one of these is concerned! I don't think I have seen many Cromas or Themas over the last few years either, come to think of it.
When the Alfa Romeo 164 was new it was one of most beautiful cars in its class, an Italian Thoroughbred. 35 years later it has lost non of its presence or character and the interior is pure Alfa Romeo. Find a really well cared for one and keep it forever. They made the BMW 5 Series look very pedestrian in comparison. Torque steer can be lived with quite easily. I really hope you enjoyed driving the 164 Sir
It was good, sir, but not quite as good as the other two cars that this gentleman owned. The interior just seems a bit fragile, really. No evidence of torque steer on this Twin Spark model, really.
I owned two of these back in the day, and I must say it was a love-hate relationship, but mostly love. The V6 was a beautiful driving machine, with the exception of the excessive torque when accelerating, and trust me, you would want to accelerate fast with this car. Strangely, I much preferred the 2.0 Twin Spark. It was lighter, fuel efficient, and had a very robust and lively engine that loved to rev, especially in manual.
Yes, having tried both Twin Spark and V6 164s, the V6 was great, but the torque steer was quite alarming, and the Busso V6 can be a bit problematic. No torque steer issues with this Twin Spark. Thank you very much indeed for watching and commenting!
Sir, we did ourselves very much back in November when we had a go in this rare Alfa Romeo, but I enjoyed the other cars this gentleman owns even more...
@@lloydvehicleconsulting you're right there! Cataract problems! My optician advised me NOT to have an operation, because these things are assumed to be the answer to everything! But like laser treatment so others won't need glasses, sometimes night vision, etc. can be affected! So I'll just hammer through as I am! If I did drive, I would probably not just have to scrape flies off the windscreen, like everybody else - I would need to scrape cyclists off the bumper, after a journey! (Tedious). And luckily I live by a much-treasured bus stop! But I at least do get by - because my eyes ARE perfectly alright for watching programmes like this! So keep up the good work, and have a nice day!
@@lloydvehicleconsulting you sir are a true car Enthusiast, as you have sampled various Alfa's I consider myself a mere enthusiast as I have not experienced a Alfa.
@@lloydvehicleconsulting once again, I shall try to reply! When I tried to reply, regarding the Talbot Talbot Tagora, halfway through my reply, a notice came up, at the top of my phone screen about something else - and when I touched it to get rid of it, it decided to also get rid of my initial reply to you! So here we go again! It was clever to notice a link between the Alfa Romeo 164, Peugeot 604, and the Talbot 164! But I didn't immediately think to compare the Talbot Tagora "outside it's own brand", because it was done to be a grander version of the T a l b o t Alpine with a boot (I think it was called a Solara) Just Like when they owned by Chrysler, they did a "big Avenger" , the Chrysler 180! Also Austin did it with their Landcrabs - with-a-longer -boot, the Austin 3 Litre. But I did think the Tagora had a uniqueness and sophistication most people missed!
The Tagora was a bit of a victim of circumstance, sadly. PSA already had two cars in the class (the 604 and the CX), so they didn't really need another one by the time they bought the remains of Chrysler Europe in around 1979. The Tagora was so far advanced down the line that they felt they couldn't waste all the work Roy Axe and his team had done in getting it ready for launch, so they decided to go ahead, and it was released in 1981...to a bit of a muted reception.
@@lloydvehicleconsulting thank you for replying about the Tagora being a victim of circumstance. I DEFINATELY agree! You mention a name I've heard of - Roy Axe. What else was he known for?
One of my all-time favourite cars and definitely the best looking of the Type Fours. Those interior materials are quite nasty however and very much early 90s Italian in nature. I believe the pre-facelifts had a huge bank of identical grey switches. They are here in the US, but very rare and utterly unknown to just about any mechanic. And you are likely going to need one close at hand....As we all know, sensible people don't buy Alfas!
Sir, there is a review of a pre-facelift 164 3.0 V6 on the channel for your viewing pleasure... It is strange, the interior is a mixture of sumptuous and extremely poor quality simultaneously! I remember they were exported to America, but they can't have been common.
What is weird to me, is that for a car introduced in 1988, it's angular and old-fashioned. However, when viewed through modern eyes, it doesn't really look dated at all. Whether this is intentional or not, I'd like yp remain a secret.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This gorgeous car just doesn't look a day out of date, even now!
Yes, I particularly like the facelifted cars, like this one.
The twin cam 4 cylinder engine actually originated with the little Guilietta saloon in 1954 at just 1290cc, with a single carburettor. Later installed in the Guilietta Sprint and Spider Veloce models with twin Weber 40s producing as much as 90bhp ( yes from just 1290cc! ) later enlarged to 1570cc for the Giulia 101 series (similar style to the Guilietta ) and 105 series . This engine was also originally designed by Busso as well Eng, Satta . Later enlarged to 1779cc and then 1962cc , these engines saw there way to the 1970s/80s / 90s into the 75 and 164 models with the Twin Spark 2 plug per cylinder producing 148 bhp in non CAT , or with 142 bhp , with CAT . Later design in 1992, for the revised series 2 164 models came with a big investment from FIAT to continue with a revised unit 1995cc , but keeping the all alloy chain driven design , so not to be confused with the Fiat/ Lancia block of the same capacity, which had an cast iron block as was belt driven . This new engine was set to cope with more tightening emissions.
Absolutely right, this was the very final iteration of a long-lived Alfa Romeo designed four-cylinder engine, and it had nothing to do with the Fiat "Pratola Sierra" based Twin Spark engines fitted to other Alfas I have driven like the 145 and 166.
Lovely car. Really distinctive, too. As a classic car for occasional use it would be fantastic.
I think that is an excellent way of putting it! Lovely to drive, probably not so lovely to try and look after.
What an awesome car. It's such a treat just to see one these days; but I don't think I'm brave enough to consider owning one.
They are great to drive, although the manual V6 models have horrendous torque steer. As you say, I am not brave enough to own one either!
Thank you Joseph for another interesting review.
We aim to please, sir! Unfortunately, the lighting and sound were a bit of an issue, but we managed...
Lovely looking design, nothing else looked like it at the time. Fine review as always sir
I couldn't resist when I was offered another one of these to film!
@@lloydvehicleconsulting They looked like Peugeot 605 to me .
That's a really good point, as they were styled by the same people, and released two years apart.
“You either really want one of these… or you don’t, and you’re prepared to put up with a few foibles” is probably the most succinct expression of Alfa Romeo ownership ever. As you say, these are rare but they must have outsold the Thema and Croma in the UK, if not the Saab 9000. I can’t remember the last time I saw a Thema or Croma on the road.
Absolutely, you need to put up with a few foibles as far as one of these is concerned! I don't think I have seen many Cromas or Themas over the last few years either, come to think of it.
When the Alfa Romeo 164 was new it was one of most beautiful cars in its class, an Italian Thoroughbred. 35 years later it has lost non of its presence or character and the interior is pure Alfa Romeo.
Find a really well cared for one and keep it forever.
They made the BMW 5 Series look very pedestrian in comparison.
Torque steer can be lived with quite easily.
I really hope you enjoyed driving the 164 Sir
It was good, sir, but not quite as good as the other two cars that this gentleman owned. The interior just seems a bit fragile, really. No evidence of torque steer on this Twin Spark model, really.
I owned two of these back in the day, and I must say it was a love-hate relationship, but mostly love. The V6 was a beautiful driving machine, with the exception of the excessive torque when accelerating, and trust me, you would want to accelerate fast with this car. Strangely, I much preferred the 2.0 Twin Spark. It was lighter, fuel efficient, and had a very robust and lively engine that loved to rev, especially in manual.
Yes, having tried both Twin Spark and V6 164s, the V6 was great, but the torque steer was quite alarming, and the Busso V6 can be a bit problematic. No torque steer issues with this Twin Spark. Thank you very much indeed for watching and commenting!
Lovely! I like the instrument panel with the six gauges.
Having the battery in the boot seems like a sensible idea to me
Thought you may like it, sir! They are nice cars to drive, although I preferred the other delights which the owner had.
Excellent review, Mr Lloyd, a most beautiful car indeed. Have you seen the Quentin Willson sales pitch video for these.
Yes, I did watch that first before I drove this for some inspiration, sir...
@lloydvehicleconsulting
That's excellent. Nobody else would think do that, watched it the other week.
@@lloydvehicleconsulting
The electric window switches are the same ones as fitted to the Audi Coupe 80/90 and 100s of the time.
@@paulie-Gualtieri. , are they really? That would be interesting if they were...
@lloydvehicleconsulting
Yes I had a look online both are identical, I knew I saw them in Audis years ago.
Oh sir ! A deeply flawed car but magnificent. More character than all current cars put together.
Sir, we did ourselves very much back in November when we had a go in this rare Alfa Romeo, but I enjoyed the other cars this gentleman owns even more...
A very stylish car, I'd love a Cloverleaf.
They are fun, although the torque steer in the V6 models is pretty bad!
@@lloydvehicleconsulting didn't have any on the 24V Cloverleaf i had, modern tyres help
I would buy this car right away! ( If my eyesight was still sharp enough for driving!)
I think that he is thinking of selling it, but that probably doesn't help you very much, does it?
@@lloydvehicleconsulting you're right there! Cataract problems! My optician advised me NOT to have an operation, because these things are assumed to be the answer to everything! But like laser treatment so others won't need glasses, sometimes night vision, etc. can be affected! So I'll just hammer through as I am! If I did drive, I would probably not just have to scrape flies off the windscreen, like everybody else - I would need to scrape cyclists off the bumper, after a journey! (Tedious). And luckily I live by a much-treasured bus stop! But I at least do get by - because my eyes ARE perfectly alright for watching programmes like this! So keep up the good work, and have a nice day!
Glad to be of service, as always!
There's a 1995 2.0 T spark in my area for £1500. It runs and drives looks pretty tidy.
Yes, these are still not particularly expensive cars, despite their rarity.
A excellent review of a rather lovely Alfa, one needs to drive or own a Alfa one day, otherwise you are not a car enthusiast.
In my case, sir, I have driven several Alfa Romeos, from 1971 all the way up to 2023, so what does that make me....
@@lloydvehicleconsulting you sir are a true car Enthusiast, as you have sampled various Alfa's I consider myself a mere enthusiast as I have not experienced a Alfa.
I am either completely silly, sir, or an enthusiast, or possibly both!
This stylish car is in the same league as the Peugeot 604......
How about the Talbot Tagora, sir?
@@lloydvehicleconsulting once again, I shall try to reply! When I tried to reply, regarding the Talbot Talbot Tagora, halfway through my reply, a notice came up, at the top of my phone screen about something else - and when I touched it to get rid of it, it decided to also get rid of my initial reply to you!
So here we go again!
It was clever to notice a link between the Alfa Romeo 164, Peugeot 604, and the Talbot 164!
But I didn't immediately think to compare the Talbot Tagora "outside it's own brand", because it was done to be a grander version of the T a l b o t Alpine with a boot (I think it was called a Solara)
Just Like when they owned by Chrysler, they did a "big Avenger" , the Chrysler 180!
Also Austin did it with their Landcrabs - with-a-longer -boot, the Austin 3 Litre.
But I did think the Tagora had a uniqueness and sophistication most people missed!
The Tagora was a bit of a victim of circumstance, sadly. PSA already had two cars in the class (the 604 and the CX), so they didn't really need another one by the time they bought the remains of Chrysler Europe in around 1979. The Tagora was so far advanced down the line that they felt they couldn't waste all the work Roy Axe and his team had done in getting it ready for launch, so they decided to go ahead, and it was released in 1981...to a bit of a muted reception.
@@lloydvehicleconsulting thank you for replying about the Tagora being a victim of circumstance. I DEFINATELY agree! You mention a name I've heard of - Roy Axe. What else was he known for?
If you look him up on Wikipedia, I am sure that you would have heard of some of the other cars he helped to design...
One of my all-time favourite cars and definitely the best looking of the Type Fours. Those interior materials are quite nasty however and very much early 90s Italian in nature. I believe the pre-facelifts had a huge bank of identical grey switches. They are here in the US, but very rare and utterly unknown to just about any mechanic. And you are likely going to need one close at hand....As we all know, sensible people don't buy Alfas!
Sir, there is a review of a pre-facelift 164 3.0 V6 on the channel for your viewing pleasure... It is strange, the interior is a mixture of sumptuous and extremely poor quality simultaneously! I remember they were exported to America, but they can't have been common.
Me too they are stunning. Would also love so.e Shark nosed BMWs the E23 and 24 and E28 5 series. Other contenders of my favourite looking cars.
@@astafford8865 , I would definitely like to try a E28 BMW 5-Series at some point.
Hi, the timing chain need some service ? I can’t find anything about this engine.
It's a cambelt engine on this car from memory.
'It-a give-a the car-a character-a!'
I mean, sir, that is one way of putting it, isn't it?
I'd love one but it would have to be a v6 manual
Already drove one of those in 2022, sir!
@@lloydvehicleconsulting my old boss had one back in the 90s
@@chrislockey7706 , complete with plenty of torque steer, no doubt...
What is weird to me, is that for a car introduced in 1988, it's angular and old-fashioned. However, when viewed through modern eyes, it doesn't really look dated at all. Whether this is intentional or not, I'd like yp remain a secret.
Yes, very much a design of its era, but oddly handsome, isn't it? Thank you very much indeed for watching and commenting!
A finicky car....
Sir, very nice to drive, but I am not sure that I would like to own one!
That wasn’t even a sensible car when it was new 😂
Never mind, it was fun anyway.
yes that's the point. sensible back then = boring.