SHOWDOWN: Alexa Mini VS Canon C200
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- Опубликовано: 14 фев 2019
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★ IN THIS VIDEO ★
Canon c200B: geni.us/canoncinema
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Thanks! Great to listen to an "adult" speaking about cameras. I'm really tired of the, "Hey, what's up guys!" And listening a lot of mumbo-jumbo.
Yes, you may say, it's just someone's opinion. But I'd rather listen to a considered opinion like this one, than someone's narcissistic ramblings.
Thank Theo! I try to give the kind of advice I would want to listen to.
Thanks for your hard work on this Rubidium. Just purchased your LUT. Looking forward to trying it out soon.
been waiting for this vid forever! no one else has seemed to have done it yet till now
Thanks! I was wondering that too. Maybe Arri has been paying them off :)
Thanks brother this was awesome!!!! Getting those luts for sure
Question, when you shot on Canon C200 what ISO was set? and Also when you chance exposure using RAW setting it performs in a very different way and recovers overexposed details a lot better, same with highlights slider, in RAW it performs a lot better. Thanks
Great video! Enjoyed watching this!
Love the detail you went into this. Great insight. I’ve been loving my C200. I did a video trying to match the 8-bit C200 HD to the Blackmagic Pocket 4K 10-bit HD and found that even the 8bit HD from the C200 is pretty strong. I do a lot of events and weddings so I won’t be shooting raw on the canon for that stuff and really wanted to see how I could push the weakest codec of the C200. Another great video, Rubidium!
Cheers, Tyler! The 8-Bit is pretty great if you white and black balance consistently and expose right. I think there's a future video in that :)
Crimson Engine ya nailing exposure and wb/bb is critical but if that is dialed in, it is pretty amazing what you can achieve in 8bit. When you move to 8bit uhd, there’s even more magic. The noise pattern is much more pleasing in uhd, and at 150mbps/ it is still extremely manageable data-wise. Moral of the story-C200 is amazing haha!
Not only with the c200, its the same with the c100 mk2.. u can push amazingly far. Most people dont know that..
Like what y’all did on this video. Thanks for the comparison.
As usual a fantastic video! There is no one else on RUclips with more mature, professional and spot-on wisdom as this channel offers. I can’t be thankful enough for everything I have learned here.. my respect all the way! I want to add my brief (and humble) two cents: The Canon C200 is the world’s best cinema camera, period and done. Not because it’s the best at everything it does, or because its not full of shortcomings.. quite the opposite, it’s flawed across the whole spectrum. But its form factor, features, lightweight, portability and absolutely unrivaled set of image quality flexibility and performance, sets it aside from everything and everyone else, at a price point that positively nothing else can touch. With some proper tweaking and knowing how to go around the specific characteristics of the camera, you can make it look like the footage of just about any camera costing 10 or 20 times more. And finally, regarding it’s somehow limited dynamic range (especially it’s tendency to blow up highlights), under extremely challenging lighting conditions, I typically underexpose it as needed by one or two stops to protect my highlights, and later in post, up the blacks and shadows, plus apply whatever required noise reduction to clean up the darker areas (I think we can all agree that the C200 can agree that the C200 can get really noisy, really fast. This is the way I found for me to work the best and has gotten me consistently the best results. Again, thank you for all your videos :)
Your videos are great. They have very high production value.
Thanks for making the great vid! Although I don't use DaVinci, in Premiere I can lower the exposure of the shot before it is debayered. I wondered if this would yield better results in your over/under tests as it seems much better than using the lumetri in premiere.
Very informative study… thank you s lot
Great comparison.!
I would love if you could do a similar comparison between the Arri mini and the Blackmagic Pocket 4k
Excellent detailed assessment. Above all said. Content is what people watch. The C200 is more than good enough to convey a story. 99.9% of people will be focused on that without a thought for the cameras used.
Thanks! Couldn't agree more.
I agree, 28 days later was shot with a Canon xl1 (you can get better specs in an iPhone now, seriously). It's probably one of most influential horror films of the last 20 years.
Amen,
as long as the video quality is decent/good (and decent audio) then all you have to do is use your imagination to creat a story.
Awesome video, thanks for sharing. In your view, what camera will give you the closest look to the Arri Alexa image for a one man shooter?
What would it look like on the normal MP4 files? Could it work if you just turned the opacity down on the LUT?
Hi did yoiu compare canon c200 raw file or compressed format vs alexa prores?
Awesome test! Purchased all your lut packs immediately! Thanks! Loving my C200
Thanks for the Support, Quentin! Hope you make some glorious images with them :)
@@Crimsonengine most definitely! I'll make you proud!👍
Love it. Thank you
What ISO are you using for the Over test - it's known that the low ISOs will clip the highlight details. You waveform looks very familiar - as you won't be able to expose anything higher than about IRE 80 at ISO100
We kept it at ISO 800 for both cameras. I think there is more to test here - I'm going to replicate this and see if I get the same results.
Most of the cinema cameras aren't very different until you point them at something very bright, which reveals the highlight latitude and rolloff. That's where the Alexa has an edge on almost all of the other cameras. The Venice also seems to do very well here.
Hi! I just bought your arri lut for raw, do you have a lut for clog3 to match this one?
Hi again. Do you have any plans to create a similar LUT for CLog 3? I rarely use Clog 2 because I've never quite mastered the noise issues. Also I will often make ProRes versions of raw clips debayering in CLog 3 and BT709 colour so that I can mix raw with XF-AVC which works quite well. So I would be interested in Arri look LUT's for that as well if you fancy a challenge!
These LUT packs are amazing - just bought both - this will transform my post production workflow, truly fantastic quality LUTs!
Thanks for the support!
@@Crimsonengine Seriously! I work with a lot of C200 RAW footage and up until now I hadn't found any LUTs I really liked for working with it, and always graded everything fully by hand. This is essentially the look I was always shooting for and having trouble achieving.
Excellent!
what a FANTASTIC review! thank you. I want to get c200 soooo bad now,,,
Thanks! What are are you shooting on now?
Coming to this as checking the C200 for 2021. Seems like a bit more formality could be applied to this test particlarly useful is shooting subtle tones that move to clip. Most of these scenes seems low DR with a few blown blobs in. Also 'four stops over' four stops over what? Maybe the C200 just has got a higher native ISO. Oh does the Alexa do 200FPS with no quality degredation? that is pretty major.
Great video. Thank you! What camera did you use for your sit down?
Cheers! It was the c200 in Raw
This is a great comparison video - goes to show how similar these two cameras can be. However the part where you lose me is when you're trying to show how much information you can retain from an overexposed/underexposed image of each camera. If you use the ARRItoRec709 LUT on the C200 images- you are mapping the gamma/gammut information incorrectly and therefore not getting a correct depiction of how much information is actually being retained. I would also love to see a comparison where you try to match the cameras using the respective camera log to Rec709 LUTs. Would the outcome be the same? Would it be easier/harder to get a similar image?
I think this was a rather limited look at the color differences between the two systems. All you points are valid ones. In the end shoot whatever you like and can afford. But I think the real differences would be more pronounced if you tried to match two color charts between the cameras.
You were able to match two scenes which had a rather narrow range in hue and tone. I think if you'd tried to match a scenes with more colors, more tones, more textures it would be noticeably harder and noticeably un-matched.
I happen to think arri's color science is the best in the game. It also stays true regardless of over and underexposed images. Whereas other camera systems shift colors, contrast, and color depth the more you move on either side of -0-
trevorpinnocky You’d spend an extra $1,000 for “better color” renting the Arri and I’ll guarantee you still tweak the colors in Resolve.
What I would love to see is canon widedr lut vs arri alexa
Crimson Great Piece!!! I thoroughly enjoyed it , Question though for us "low" Budget Film makers how Do you feel the Canon C100 mk & mk2 would stand up to the Arri Alexa? Also do you feel the LUT you made would equally apply to the Canon c100? Lets us know.... It be cool to do a comparison of the Canon c100 to Canon c200!
Yes, I agree on the c100 vs c200. Can you only get c-log 3 on c200 and up?
hey! nice subject , watching...
I think I missed it. What settings were using for the C200? Was this at 4k internal raw?
Acording to Armando's video he said Yes it's Raw 👍
Like a Man on Fire we filmed using RAW
If you use an external monitor for the Canon C200 that is a non Canon monitor can you retain the touchscreen features, etc via the SDI connection?
You don't. the touch features only work with the small canon screen.
Hey Rubidium, when recovering the C200 footage from 4 stops over and 4 stops under did you augment the metadata or adjust via exposure sliders? Also, not sure if you mentioned this or not, was the Arri shot with ArriRaw?
I used the sliders with both Alexa and the c200. I did look to see if the Raw tab held any hope, but it didn't make a difference. I'm going to repeat this one as a separate video to find out just where it clips
@@Crimsonengine what about raw iso setting in canon's software though
What I think Nikita is referring to is the Resolve might be a bit broken when dealing with Canon Raw Lite files and that the Canon Raw Development App can handle highlight recovery better by adjusting the ISO value. If you have a chance, please give this a try and also let BlackMagic resolve team know to update their software to support this better.
Great video. What Codec did you use on the Alexa Mini?
It was Prores 444 - the one we got didn't have the ArriRaw license
Great comparison, it takes away some of the craving for an Alexa someday
Thanks. I was super guilty of this too - hoping there was some magic bullet that would take my films to the next level. I'm beginning to suspect its the fundementals done well.
@@Crimsonengine screen shotting this comment to remind myself of this.
Would you mind telling me what you're shooting with in your studio for this video? Looks great and excellent lighting. Thanks! btw.... I use a c100mii.... and looking at the c200. thanks for the info.
Thank you for the feedback. Do you mean the shot of me at the computer? Its the c200b in Raw with a canon 50mm f/1.4 stills lens.
Oh good to know. Yes was curious if you were also shooting with c200 for the video. Looks great, thanks!
would love to see alexa mini vs c300 mk iii or c500- really want to see how they grade and how far you can push the images and how they respond differently. I'v heard arri grades like film - Iv shot with and amira and c200 on the same shoot and the alexa was so much easier to get the look I want. Thanks for the content Rubidium! Keep it up!
also would love to hear ur opinion on " motion cadence" is this basically the read out speed? on my c500 mk ii it seems much slower compared to alexa
So how many stops of dynamic range do you think the C200 actually has?
Useable? 12-13 I think.
Can you please make a video on colour grading videos professionally, and what is your workflow?
Thats an awesome idea. I feel like it would be around an hour, so maybe its a course rather than a video.
@@Crimsonengine yeah, you're right. But try to make it please try to make it as short as possible. It'll help a lot of people.
I purchased the LUT. We use Adobe, so I applied the LUT in Premiere, and the effect is that the magentas/pinks are supersaturated...so much so that it's effecting all the grays as well. Any thoughts on this?
Thats interesting. We tested in Premiere as well and didn't see this. Are you using the LUTs on Raw c200 footage or the mp4? They're designed for Raw.
@@Crimsonengine Yeah, it's the C200 12bit RAW. Color Space (BT.709), Gamma (tried both Clog2 and Clog3).
@@jonappeal It seems your color space is the issue. Try using Cinegamut as your color space instead of BT709.
@@JamesJacksonFilmz That definitely did it...thanks! Another question if you're willing to help: Confused about the Color Space...if we are exporting for Broadcast I thought I needed a REC 709 color space and that's why I used BT.709. I thought the other settings were for different mediums like film projection, etc. Is that right? And if so, would that mean that this LUT with the Color Space of Cinema Gamut make my video look different for Broadcast (over/under exposed and over/under saturated, etc)? Thanks!
@@jonappeal Glad you got it sorted. The LUT we made is a Rec709 Lut - it does the same job as changing the color space to 709 in the raw tab of premiere, but makes it more Alexa-y.
Love this! I almost rented an Alexa to do my own comparison. Thanks! What ISO did you use on the C200?
I would also like to see a video about techniques for dealing with the C200 noise. In post and in camera.
I know you suggested lower ISO for cleaner shadows, what about a higher contrast situation with bright sun where you want to protect highlight and still have clean shadows? Would you still use a lower ISO?
Not really buying that it’s iso 800native. I feel the sweet spot is 400iso from what I’ve seen in my footage.
Hey do you have access to C200 PL, Arri PL to LPL adapter and Arri signature primes?
Not on my camera shelf :) But I'm in Burbank and there are a ton of rental houses around here.
@@Crimsonengine As the C200 can be matched so well it would be interesting to see what that lense looks like. I am way in the Caribbean. We have NO rental shops :(
or the C500 MII for that matter
The EVF on the Alexa Mini is HORRIBLE! Great video! The Power Connector on the Alexa Mini is also horrible and incredibly easy to ruin (the connectors bend) so when someone doesn't understand that they can't or shouldn't twist the cable to find the right orientation for the cable to connect, it will bend the pins and that cable will run you $350 USD (approximately). I wish the Canon cinema cameras would have false color...my main want.
Thanks Carlos. I think any on camera monitor is pretty worthless for focus - I love my TVLogic 7". I WISH that canon would open up the touch focus algorithm so that it could be used by other touch monitors.
@@Crimsonengine That would be great and sad, or a little sad for me as I look at the pile of manual lenses on my shelves. LOL Seriously though, that would be pretty awesome to have a large touch monitor to pull focus from or with.
Are the under and over in raw or prores?
We only had the Prores on the Arri (raw costs more) but its my understanding that Raw doesn't add any range on the Alexa, just post flexibility with the color balance.
Wow
wow. wow. wow. #mindblown
The Alexa Mini wins for me, it just looks better more natural even though the canon c200 is sharper. excellent video.
Which ever wins both can do the job. So you can do the same job (with an inch win) for big money or small money.
@@africanhistory This is a discussion about quality not about simply doing the job, hence the video, I am sure you could do the job on the Iphone but it won't be the same.
My man, I would love to see a C200 vs X-T3 video comparison and I’m sure a lot of other viewers would be interested in that too 🙂
Love your content but feel your reviews of the Arri Alexa Mini and Red are biased. Clearly, you favor the C200 due to your style of run and gun shooting and low cost. It's important to understand that both the Arri and Red cameras are intended for large productions that plan out their shots. As an advertising professional, I would never shoot with a C200 due to client perception but more importantly, lack of options in post-production. PS Armando's video really proves the Arri Alexa Mini is a beat and blows the C200 out of the water in regard to color science and dynamic range.
Tbh, Armandos video shows how damn close the Canon is to the Alexa. As for high end commercials - why would you shoot with anything but the absolute best when there is money for it :)
Ever notice that NONE of the big name RUclipsrs have NO actual movies produced or anything close to resembling an actual motion picture project with a story. Makes me wonder... Whaaaaat's-UP!
There are a lot of youtubers who like to pretend they're filmmakers but the only films they make are their tutorials on youtube :)
I am so damn happy for this video. All those boasters without skill who hide behind their big purchases can now go and cry. I heard one of them say the c200 was a toy for weddings, for serious work you use a Red. HA HA HA HA> Well I am sure the Alexia on its own makes the films for you. Reminds me of motorcycles. One guy is on a 1000, and a pro is on a 600-- who wins the race?
Arri mini crashed c200 while shooting EXT scene
lol he has tape over his computer cam lol
wtf!!!! is day and night. Alexa si so much better!!!!!
Man... you applied the lut made for Log-C to Canon Log, what's wrong with you? Arri paid you for anti-advertising Canon? Canon produces a lot of deluts for their color spaces!
I think you missed the point here. I used the Arri Lut on the Canon footage to show how close they are, and how, with some tweaks, they look identical.
@@Crimsonengine your tweaks is not a part of their original color reproduction. Almost all cameras can be matched, but it's not mean that they are equal.
Hallo @@MichaelWeizenfeld! Bitte do a simple video matching a Sony FS7 or Panasonic EVA with Alexa Mini. Just Skin Tones Daylight and Tungsten. After that you can say - Almost all cameras can be matched. Danke!
@@studiodevis it can be done it in a couple clicks thru the ACES. Or other similar system which uses colorimetric profiles.
What I would love to see is canon widedr lut vs arri alexa