By the way, Temple Marksmen are AP. Big reason they performed well. Note that the 3 AP archers, Steelbowmen, Hearthguard and Temple Marksmen, all performed extremely well in the kill test despite their mediocre range. Even one volley is lethal.
So that's what it was. I was staring at the spreadsheet trying to figure out how the Temple Marksmen could possibly have killed more than the Steelbowmen. Their stats are identical except for the Steelbowmen having 10m more range, so how could a unit with AP lose to a virtually identical unit without AP? Well, I guess if they both have AP, then it makes perfect sense. :)
@@Thouse_Muchachos Armor Piercing. Basically it means any attack ignores half the armor value of the enemy unit. So if a unit has 10 armor against an AP attack it would only count as 5.
Aha, I wondered why Haleths did so poorly and now I realized on your stats table. You used the Enedwaith bodyguard unit, Galu, not the actual Foresters of Haleth. The real deal has 130-ish men and 220 meter range.
I absolutely can’t wait for version 3. I’m so much more pumped to play as the new Angmar and all the other changes and additions than the new 3 kingdoms total war. That should really say something about the work of the DAC team! Can’t wait!!
@@shaneomack2471 Well I wouldnt say that the AI of the other newer games are necessarily worse than Med 2 but what I have seen from 3K up until now looks absolutely terrible
When you play any post Med 2 games on a 42" screen it does not look pleasing to my eyes (a bit too plastic & my PC rig can't generate high enough settings to fix this) so for looks, DAC 3 is the cream of the crop.
Simeon Wardle I completely agree, I just am in love with the med 2 campaign map and the mechanics of the battles. Of course there are aspects of the future games that I wish could be in med 2 but overall I think led 2 is the best. It seems to me that the later games are so obsessed with making this real looking world that take such advanced computers to play that it makes it not fun to spend too much time on.
Very surprised about the Ithilien Rangers. I expected them to be around number 7-12th. They are lore- and lookwise my favourite ranger unit (and Faramir is probably my favourite human character in lotr), so I'm very happy about this. Not surprised about the number two spot for the dalian Hearthguard. They are beasts. In my Dale campaign Prince Brand slaughetered Rhun basically on his own. (and thanks to Naras' Portrait Enhancment Pack submod, Prince Brand "was played" by the actor of Robb Stark from GoT, which was awesome. (And this time, he managed to survive his wedding aswell.^^)
@CaptainDaz Making a handful of Top 10's out of a mod he leads(and thus has extremely intimate knowledge of the workings of the mod) doesn't mean he's becoming a WatchMojo clone.
I'm always a fan of units like the Osgiliath veterans and the Hearthguard, partly for their survivability at range, but mostly for their competence in melee. This is despite the fact that i'll willingly let my infantry be slaughtered to a man before letting the enemy in melee with my precious archers. This isn't shogun 2 or rome 2 or something, replacing those elites is hard when you're ten regions from where you trained them, and there's the next battle to think about.
God this game looks so good. So much unit variety and cosmetic detail. Those Dunedain Steel bowmen looks incredible, especially when they pull out that greatsword.
Maybe try a video on the Top 10 Cost Effective Units? Units that may not be the best but in terms of cost, upkeep, and availability(Time to recruit and AOR requirements) are great relative to their performance.
Galu shouldn't the steelbowmen have better range and accuracy stats to better align with the lore? If I remember doesn't it say in one of the book of lost tales that the only archers that could compare to the High Elves were the Numenoreans with their steel bows. I think it even mentions the ridiculous range of the steel bow as well. Though I may be mistaken.
@@kowo7795 They do have now have 230 range, excellent accuracy and 32 arrows but they don't have ap. So in gaining Ap they lost a lot of range, accuracy and arrows. I don't know if this change is effectively a buff or a nerf but i suspect a nerf because with their old stats they would have beaten the ithilien rangers I think
@@janner919 There were a lot of complaints about ND's lack of AP units, so the Steelbowmen have assumed this role. Use them to target heavily armoured units while the Rangers, with their much better ammo count, range and accuracy, are suited for more general use.
@@feelingpine9123 indeed they now serve another purpose as to fill the AP gap in the ND roster, meaning that for balance reasons they should be nerfed somewhat elsewhere, however I'd given them an accuracy equal to that of the hearthguard or ranger counterpart and a range of 190 as to differentiate them as the best AP human archer unit in the form of a better range by a gap of 20 compared to the hearthguard (taking into account the lore description)
Full stop!! Those units look amazing!!! I am so excited for v 3.0 aka Rise of Gundabad plus some Angmar stuff and everything else you never knew you wanted!
I think a nice thing for the hearthguard would be a kind of arrow switch where they for one can shoot their black arrows but also normal ones for less armored enemies
Because your test is against a charging enemy it is inherently biased in favor of higher damage lower arrow count and lower accuracy compared to what you would otherwise think of if you're in either an archer duel or shooting against static enemies engaged by the rest of your army, which would be the typical target of your archers. Of course archers are very versatile and fulfill a variety of roles, which will of course depend on your entire army's composition as well as what you're facing. However, since you're usually not using armies of just archers testing against charging enemies and seeing how many kills they got in the time it takes for the enemy to reach them is far from an ideal way to test archer quality. Of course dismissing the melee and defensive stats is also an issue as especially the elite archers tend to have pretty good melee and defensive capabilities which is the main difference between the elites and the run of the mill archers.
Well shit, I actually thought it would be either Hearthguard or the Dol Guldur's Shadowbows when Galu said it would be unexpected. I dunno why I thought of Shadowbows, just a thought that popped into my head. But Hearthguard make sense, the black arrows are pretty damn good. P.S. What the heck, Ithilien Rangers are that much better then Steelbowmen? Damn, didn't expect that.
Very interesting tally. That took a lot of effort. Maybe include text files of the top ten rankings in the install of version 3? You put so much time into doing these, it would be nice to put it to use in the new version.
Didn't expect the Ithilien Rangers at number one, though that unit has been invaluable in my Gondor campaign, racking up tons of kills while Mordor troops can't match their range. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Wow, that's interesting results. I see you guys nerfed Temple Marksmen, they had 230 range in 2.2 and definitely would be in top 5. Also I am surprised that Dol Amroth Mariners with missile attack 5 are in top 10. I'd expect to see Beruthiel, Hasharii, Nadubawib or at least Heavy Goblins due to their insane unit size. P.S. I really love your videos, Galu, thus I feel very upset because most of them get outdated very quickly due to mod development :(
I'm not sure if you just nerfed the Steelbowmen and Marksmen or that they got a boost? Maybe it is just me, but their old stats with AP would make it a lot more interesting, giving you something to worry about when fighting the ND and an excellent armour piercing unit if you fight as the ND. I did some tests with that setup myself against Uruks and Spearmen of Dol Amroth (post-barracks event) they got ~116 kills with Dol Amroth and 140 with the Uruks in the three times I tested. And by the stage that you get the Steelbowmen (or encounter the Marksmen) you already won the campaign.
An Amazing test for archers would be a gigantic tournament with every unit is matched with every other First, ranged attacks, then let them go into melee when they have depleted their arrows
I actually did figure hearthguard for 2nd but figured the ND bodyguards or the steelbowmen for 1st, but that was before it was made purely about archery. In my experience AP is just huge for archers
Not sure I agree with excluding things like armor, shield, and cost. I know other people were complaining that they _were_ included, but i definitely feel like it should be included. Excluding melee attack and defense skill is fine, but archers will sometimes have to duel with other archers. It's a big reason why Pavise Crossbows are so good in vanilla Medieval 2.
Incidentally the Hearthguard's winning the kill contest may have been a fluke. They actually have *slightly* less accuracy than the Steelbowmen and Temple Marksmen. Hearthguard: accuracy_vs_units 0.055 Steelbows and Temple: accuracy_vs_units 0.05 The higher the accuracy score the lower their accuracy (yes I know that's counter-intuitive).
Honestly, Arachir, there are so many variables to consider in these units thats impossible to compare everything in a simple list (in spite of all the precautions you took). Personally, I would much prefer a list where you simply listed you personal 10 favourite units, and why they are your favourites.
Honestly I just now watched this list and I thought the Ithilien Rangers would be number 1 as a joke in my head. Playing as gondor the ithilen rangers can rack up 500+ kills before the battle ends AND you can train them rather early in the campaign. An essential unit for Gondor to survive.
The Hearthguard were honestly my pick for top 2 (along with the Steelbowmen) back when this list was announced. Technically, I guess I was predicting the Steelbowmen and Bardian Marksmen, because I didn't know at the time that the AP arrows had been moved to the Hearthguard, but I figured AP would be the decisive factor. I guess I was mostly right...with just the one glaring exception. So, what's next for a top 10 list? Pikemen? Strike infantry? Crossbows? :)
Would be pretty normal for dale to have at least 1 unit in this top. They have a bow on their sigil godammit ! Also i was disappointing that the barding marksmen doesn't get a mention
year 2020, I've always thought that the Dunedain Rangers are overall better than the Ithilien Rangers, but after seeing the Dunedain at 3rd, I am so surprised they got 1st.
I think the Osgiliath veterans should be buffed, considering they are a late game unit and they perform worse than the Ithilien rangers. You already have Ithilien rangers, Blackroot Vale archers and Gondor archers. They just don't really feel useful.
Osgiliath Veterans are already very powerful. They're great archers and a very good heavy infantry unit rolled into one. Their skill with a bow is only half the story, they're a pretty unique unit by human standards.
As Galu says, they are Dunedain. I believe they are the old Milita Archer Captains? Or whatever they were called. Basically the Non-Dunedain archer units loyal to the Dunedain.
Is this video based on changes from version 3? I'm playing a northern Dunedain campaign right now on version 2.2 and my steel bowmen have according to their info page the stats of 8 ranged attack 32 missiles 230 range and no mention of armour piercing(although that might be because their melee attack isnt armour piercing?). Also Dunedain rangers have 6 missile attack instead of 7.
Does rise of Mordor have this awesome complexity in ranking their bow units? Adding in more missiles and various things to separate them all into more specific skills. I hope they do or will eventually add these types of distinguishing factors in.
I still think Steelbowmen are way better both in battle and in camaign, for a few reasons: They have the highest melee attack of 16-17 (more with exp), wich make them Actually a really good great weapon unit in addition to their archer quality, while the ithilien ranger are garbage in melee and can't win against normal Uruks, plus the fact that they are armour piercing both in melee and at range, the uruks you've tested are midly armoured but with some other kind of highly armoured units, the steelbowmen would come 2nd behind the Hearhthguard. Plus the fact that in campaign, they are recrutable from every Important settlement no matter the region, they are recrutable in Isengard, Tharbad, Dol Guldur, Carn Dum ect wich allow you to have a pretty good number of thos and sustain you're army in newly gained settlements.
On paper they might seem pretty crazy but Gundabad only get two missile units in the entire game (Snow-Orc Scouts and Blackshield Archers)... but those two units are very good for their tiers.
What Hummingbird said. DaC's interpretation of Gundabad orcs are that they (the Gundabad orcs) are superior to other orcs at every tier, basically verging on Elven quality. That being said though, their cost and rarity also approaches Elven tier. Basically, Gundabad orcs are the premier elite orcs for the evil factions. They may be the best orcs, but they're still orcs nonetheless. Still, I look forward to crushing them as the Angmarim.
I thought the numenoreans were unbeatable with a bow. I mean, the temple marksman and dunedain steel bowman should be the top of the humans archers, at least in accuracy, only the elite units of the elves should defeat them, at least according to their background.I supose that must be a issue with balance such as "powerful" units, but at least they dont deserve a better accuracy than most of the humans archers ?
5 лет назад
I wouldn't get too hung up on accuracy. The difference between 3rd tier and 1st tier is 0.1. Where 0 is 100% accurate and 1 is abysmal. So the Ithilien rangers are only 10% more accurate than the 3rd tier units and only 5% more accurate than the 2nd tier. It is very minor and is one of those more hidden stats you never really notice unless someone mentions it in a video like this.
@@feelingpine9123 Also, some things have to be changed for game reasons. If the steelbow was to be accurately represented, the steelbowmen would have the longest range of this list. But as ive proven, i am biased.
Me: Hearthguard are gonna win Galu: I am not considering shield/armour etc. Me: Come on guys, you are still gonna make it to the top spot! Galu: And no.1 of course Ithilien rangers! Me: ... ... ... really?... .... ....
Aren't kamul's shadowrangers rangers too? I thought they would be at the top when you said that only two rangers were not on the list and didn't mention them at all.
@ Yes! Bad! :) We are talking about Dol Amroth, not "normal" humans. Like you said their absolute best unit barely enter in the 10th place of "non-elven" archers, not even absolute 10 best of the game. Even Blackshield Archers (orc faction) are better than the absolute elite Dol Amroth archers which supposedly have both Dúnedain and Elven heritage. Even with such noble blood in their veins their archers are worse than archers from an orc nation...how could anyone (knowing this facts) can think they are not bad? It's like saying that Huddersfield town are not performing bad because they are in the premier league and there are much worse in the leagues above. But it's just my opinion, you don't need to agree of course.
@@JXulo Dol Amroth have *the* best heavy cavalry roster in the game and some of the best human heavy infantry in the game. No they're not going to get elven-quality archers on top of that, blood or no blood. No amount of complaining is going to change that I'm afraid.
The Black-shield Archers are neither black nor have shields...but I am sure there is a reason for this misnomer? I will call them "Lossen-yryk cû-maethor"...
Where do I need to edit to disable the black smoke effect from the Black Arrows along with the poison arrow effect? I don't like the visual effect (hurts realism, why would a dwarven-crafted AP arrow leave a black trail of smoke or a poison coated arrow have a greenish trail etc.) and I also don't really need the effects as a gameplay aide to discern who is shooting at whom.
@@feelingpine9123 Just changing the relevant "effect" lines from descr_projectiles to "arrows_new_set" got the job done, thanks. I seem to have managed to change everything other than flaming arrows (which are fine by me) to the normal arrow effect (just tested in custom battle).
Hello Galu, i saw a comment in the Discord channel mentioning this, it seems like Farmhand Pikemen's are missing from the Anduin Custom Battle roster, i checked it in game and they can definitely train the Farmhand Pikemen's during the campaign, so why don't they also have access to them in Custom Battles?
5 лет назад
You have access to them if you change the period to 'all'.
Hello, i want to speed up production in a city, to cheat. but i cant get it to work ith some city names. I enter process_cq ''Ost Sûl'' but it says settlement not found :( Can anyone help? I keep getting advice that i allready know :(
woah i thought the temple archers is no 1 followed by the steelmarksmen mainly because of my gondor playthrough where the slow gondorians would die on those temple archers and gondor cav is useless against them and the rangers are not able to win 1v1 against the temple archers. those steelmarksmen are my fav in campaign be it i can only have 2 max. On the topic of human rangers units i thought they would be good average archers somewhere between 3-5 heheh. Enedwaith Guardians (the jav/pike troop) is the best overall human troop for me
What about the snaga stalkers attack on the wookies?
It's an orc subrace we cannot afford to lose
By the way, Temple Marksmen are AP. Big reason they performed well. Note that the 3 AP archers, Steelbowmen, Hearthguard and Temple Marksmen, all performed extremely well in the kill test despite their mediocre range. Even one volley is lethal.
Hummingbird, So you guys found a way to make the Steelbows balenced Ap? Well congratulations are in order.
Kinda ruins generals bodyguard though.
Are the Steelbowmen AP in v3?
They do not have AP in version 2.
So that's what it was. I was staring at the spreadsheet trying to figure out how the Temple Marksmen could possibly have killed more than the Steelbowmen. Their stats are identical except for the Steelbowmen having 10m more range, so how could a unit with AP lose to a virtually identical unit without AP? Well, I guess if they both have AP, then it makes perfect sense. :)
what is AP?
@@Thouse_Muchachos Armor Piercing. Basically it means any attack ignores half the armor value of the enemy unit. So if a unit has 10 armor against an AP attack it would only count as 5.
i can't be the only one who saw the mumakil and first thought was 'surely they can't count??' lmao
I was dumbfounded when I saw them and thought they were number one!
Aha, I wondered why Haleths did so poorly and now I realized on your stats table. You used the Enedwaith bodyguard unit, Galu, not the actual Foresters of Haleth. The real deal has 130-ish men and 220 meter range.
I absolutely can’t wait for version 3. I’m so much more pumped to play as the new Angmar and all the other changes and additions than the new 3 kingdoms total war. That should really say something about the work of the DAC team! Can’t wait!!
Yeah well, the Medieval 2 AI is better than the 3 Kingdoms AI seems to be...
Jakob Schöning really? Idk I like the games that came after empire total war but medieval 2 and empire I think are the best.
@@shaneomack2471 Well I wouldnt say that the AI of the other newer games are necessarily worse than Med 2 but what I have seen from 3K up until now looks absolutely terrible
When you play any post Med 2 games on a 42" screen it does not look pleasing to my eyes (a bit too plastic & my PC rig can't generate high enough settings to fix this) so for looks, DAC 3 is the cream of the crop.
Simeon Wardle I completely agree, I just am in love with the med 2 campaign map and the mechanics of the battles. Of course there are aspects of the future games that I wish could be in med 2 but overall I think led 2 is the best. It seems to me that the later games are so obsessed with making this real looking world that take such advanced computers to play that it makes it not fun to spend too much time on.
Very surprised about the Ithilien Rangers. I expected them to be around number 7-12th. They are lore- and lookwise my favourite ranger unit (and Faramir is probably my favourite human character in lotr), so I'm very happy about this.
Not surprised about the number two spot for the dalian Hearthguard. They are beasts. In my Dale campaign Prince Brand slaughetered Rhun basically on his own. (and thanks to Naras' Portrait Enhancment Pack submod, Prince Brand "was played" by the actor of Robb Stark from GoT, which was awesome. (And this time, he managed to survive his wedding aswell.^^)
Top 10 RUclipsrs of all time:
10: Galu
9: Galu
8: Galu
7: Galu
6: Galu
5: Galu
4: Galu
3: Galu
2: Galu
1: Galu
Because he spits hot fire 🙏
@CaptainDaz Making a handful of Top 10's out of a mod he leads(and thus has extremely intimate knowledge of the workings of the mod) doesn't mean he's becoming a WatchMojo clone.
CaptainDaz that’s the thing about Galu fans. They take things too seriously
DJBlueBird not gonna lie, I take being a Galu fan pretty seriously #galugang 🙏
I'm always a fan of units like the Osgiliath veterans and the Hearthguard, partly for their survivability at range, but mostly for their competence in melee. This is despite the fact that i'll willingly let my infantry be slaughtered to a man before letting the enemy in melee with my precious archers. This isn't shogun 2 or rome 2 or something, replacing those elites is hard when you're ten regions from where you trained them, and there's the next battle to think about.
Maybe you can do the best AP strike infantry next?
Love your videos btw
skin-changers...
those athala rangers always have me scrolling around my mirkwood settlements building them every turn they are available. Soooo good
Amour piercing makes hearthguard and steel bows way better than any other unit
Just broke my arm on a night out in Wales. Cheers 4 this Galu! Just what I needed to take my mind off it.
God this game looks so good. So much unit variety and cosmetic detail. Those Dunedain Steel bowmen looks incredible, especially when they pull out that greatsword.
Maybe try a video on the Top 10 Cost Effective Units? Units that may not be the best but in terms of cost, upkeep, and availability(Time to recruit and AOR requirements) are great relative to their performance.
Difficult to test, though, as it doesn't seperate unit types.
Galu shouldn't the steelbowmen have better range and accuracy stats to better align with the lore? If I remember doesn't it say in one of the book of lost tales that the only archers that could compare to the High Elves were the Numenoreans with their steel bows. I think it even mentions the ridiculous range of the steel bow as well. Though I may be mistaken.
Probably because of balance
Steelbowmen with higher range and accuracy would be crazy op
@@kowo7795 They do have now have 230 range, excellent accuracy and 32 arrows but they don't have ap. So in gaining Ap they lost a lot of range, accuracy and arrows. I don't know if this change is effectively a buff or a nerf but i suspect a nerf because with their old stats they would have beaten the ithilien rangers I think
@@janner919 There were a lot of complaints about ND's lack of AP units, so the Steelbowmen have assumed this role. Use them to target heavily armoured units while the Rangers, with their much better ammo count, range and accuracy, are suited for more general use.
@@feelingpine9123 indeed they now serve another purpose as to fill the AP gap in the ND roster, meaning that for balance reasons they should be nerfed somewhat elsewhere, however I'd given them an accuracy equal to that of the hearthguard or ranger counterpart and a range of 190 as to differentiate them as the best AP human archer unit in the form of a better range by a gap of 20 compared to the hearthguard (taking into account the lore description)
Full stop!! Those units look amazing!!! I am so excited for v 3.0 aka Rise of Gundabad plus some Angmar stuff and everything else you never knew you wanted!
Hearthguard was to be expected. I would've been disappointed, had we we not seen any black arrows fly in this top 10.
Yeah, I knew you were talking about the Hearthguard!
But I thought they would be first on the list
Cheers for Hearthguard and Osgiliath veterans, my favourite archer units in the game :D
I think a nice thing for the hearthguard would be a kind of arrow switch where they for one can shoot their black arrows but also normal ones for less armored enemies
Because your test is against a charging enemy it is inherently biased in favor of higher damage lower arrow count and lower accuracy compared to what you would otherwise think of if you're in either an archer duel or shooting against static enemies engaged by the rest of your army, which would be the typical target of your archers. Of course archers are very versatile and fulfill a variety of roles, which will of course depend on your entire army's composition as well as what you're facing. However, since you're usually not using armies of just archers testing against charging enemies and seeing how many kills they got in the time it takes for the enemy to reach them is far from an ideal way to test archer quality. Of course dismissing the melee and defensive stats is also an issue as especially the elite archers tend to have pretty good melee and defensive capabilities which is the main difference between the elites and the run of the mill archers.
I genuinely thought the Hearthguard would be in the top 3, given I love playing as Dale, but I didn’t expect the ithillien rangers to be first.
Well shit, I actually thought it would be either Hearthguard or the Dol Guldur's Shadowbows when Galu said it would be unexpected. I dunno why I thought of Shadowbows, just a thought that popped into my head. But Hearthguard make sense, the black arrows are pretty damn good.
P.S. What the heck, Ithilien Rangers are that much better then Steelbowmen? Damn, didn't expect that.
Very interesting tally. That took a lot of effort. Maybe include text files of the top ten rankings in the install of version 3? You put so much time into doing these, it would be nice to put it to use in the new version.
Didn't expect the Ithilien Rangers at number one, though that unit has been invaluable in my Gondor campaign, racking up tons of kills while Mordor troops can't match their range.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Interesting to see the Hearthguard so high. Definitely something I’m happy about, but it’s still incredibly surprising.
Wow, that's interesting results.
I see you guys nerfed Temple Marksmen, they had 230 range in 2.2 and definitely would be in top 5.
Also I am surprised that Dol Amroth Mariners with missile attack 5 are in top 10. I'd expect to see Beruthiel, Hasharii, Nadubawib or at least Heavy Goblins due to their insane unit size.
P.S. I really love your videos, Galu, thus I feel very upset because most of them get outdated very quickly due to mod development :(
Like the cozy concerning hobbits-music playing while archers are slaughtering orcs
I'm not sure if you just nerfed the Steelbowmen and Marksmen or that they got a boost?
Maybe it is just me, but their old stats with AP would make it a lot more interesting, giving you something to worry about when fighting the ND and an excellent armour piercing unit if you fight as the ND. I did some tests with that setup myself against Uruks and Spearmen of Dol Amroth (post-barracks event) they got ~116 kills with Dol Amroth and 140 with the Uruks in the three times I tested.
And by the stage that you get the Steelbowmen (or encounter the Marksmen) you already won the campaign.
An Amazing test for archers would be a gigantic tournament with every unit is matched with every other
First, ranged attacks, then let them go into melee when they have depleted their arrows
Hearthguard? Called it! I did expect the hasharii to make the list tho
Damn, I actually thought there was a Dale unit coming when you said there was a suprising one coming xD
I actually did figure hearthguard for 2nd but figured the ND bodyguards or the steelbowmen for 1st, but that was before it was made purely about archery. In my experience AP is just huge for archers
Super happy when I saw #2. My favorite unit in the game.
Yes yes! Faramir's company win! I really love the Ithilien rangers, they must be my favourite unit of all time
Eru Ilúvatar bless you. Ready to throw away my real life as soon as V3 comes out
Not sure I agree with excluding things like armor, shield, and cost. I know other people were complaining that they _were_ included, but i definitely feel like it should be included. Excluding melee attack and defense skill is fine, but archers will sometimes have to duel with other archers. It's a big reason why Pavise Crossbows are so good in vanilla Medieval 2.
I was wondering where the Ithilien Rangers were but they were first so that's very cool!
Could you maybe do top 10 bodyguards next??
Also, kudos to Hummingbird the Blackshield Archers' bows look amazing!
Incidentally the Hearthguard's winning the kill contest may have been a fluke. They actually have *slightly* less accuracy than the Steelbowmen and Temple Marksmen.
Hearthguard: accuracy_vs_units 0.055
Steelbows and Temple: accuracy_vs_units 0.05
The higher the accuracy score the lower their accuracy (yes I know that's counter-intuitive).
Uruk archers can deal some crazy damage on light units, excellent for early Rohan fighring
Honestly, Arachir, there are so many variables to consider in these units thats impossible to compare everything in a simple list (in spite of all the precautions you took). Personally, I would much prefer a list where you simply listed you personal 10 favourite units, and why they are your favourites.
Honestly I just now watched this list and I thought the Ithilien Rangers would be number 1 as a joke in my head. Playing as gondor the ithilen rangers can rack up 500+ kills before the battle ends AND you can train them rather early in the campaign. An essential unit for Gondor to survive.
The Hearthguard were honestly my pick for top 2 (along with the Steelbowmen) back when this list was announced. Technically, I guess I was predicting the Steelbowmen and Bardian Marksmen, because I didn't know at the time that the AP arrows had been moved to the Hearthguard, but I figured AP would be the decisive factor. I guess I was mostly right...with just the one glaring exception.
So, what's next for a top 10 list? Pikemen? Strike infantry? Crossbows? :)
Also, we are being spoiled this week! Thank you!
i'd rather have 10 units of snaga archers than any of these units
u drunk?
Enjoy your one damage arrows safely pinging off the armor of post barracks event units.
I was getting annoyed. 'WHERE MY DALEBOIS AT?!' then I saw they got the number 2 spot, I can die happy now
Damn you and your foresight HUMMINGBIRD!
Would be pretty normal for dale to have at least 1 unit in this top. They have a bow on their sigil godammit ! Also i was disappointing that the barding marksmen doesn't get a mention
Dale is not an average nation. They have all-round good and elite troops, capable of winning an easy campaign. So not surprised of Hearthguard :)
It only took you a month but you finally did it huzzaahhhh :)
I am playing a Dale campaign and thought that the Hearthguard would be maybe in the top 5, but never on number two
The whole time I thought “why the fuck is he forgetting the ithien rangers?”
I guessed the hearthguard! AP is super powerful.
Ahh you guys removed the steel bow of the Nimrodel Mariners's model! nice!
No Dalian marksman?
year 2020, I've always thought that the Dunedain Rangers are overall better than the Ithilien Rangers, but after seeing the Dunedain at 3rd, I am so surprised they got 1st.
Now we just need to restore Amon Sul and Dunedain's campaign is complete...
Was expecting Bandobras archers as first!
Why have the steelbowmen only
180 range?
they had 210 in 2.2. I bet it's for balancing
@@Thouse_Muchachos in my opinion 180 is way to less for a expensive high tier unit
Less range but AP
And only 3rd(worst) tier accuracy..?
It would be better if they have higher stats becouse they have the best bows and Training they should be the best
I think the Osgiliath veterans should be buffed, considering they are a late game unit and they perform worse than the Ithilien rangers. You already have Ithilien rangers, Blackroot Vale archers and Gondor archers. They just don't really feel useful.
Osgiliath Veterans are already very powerful. They're great archers and a very good heavy infantry unit rolled into one. Their skill with a bow is only half the story, they're a pretty unique unit by human standards.
@@feelingpine9123 I just feel they are not that much better than the Ithilien ranger, this is based on experience. But yeah, they are great in melee.
@@atanvarno1696 Ithilien Rangers are better at range, Veterans in melee. Yes this is intentional.
@@feelingpine9123 I guess the veterans are a more flexible unit and that they are very useful in tough battles, more than the rangers.
Top 10 vid on my birthday. Coincedence? I think not
All I see is that the majority of archers mentioned are Numenorean (including Black Numenoreans). The rest are Northmen, Wildmen and an orc.
I love the Ithilien rangers, but I don’t think they should be better than all of Dale and the Dúnedain’s archers
i dont remember sworn archers. in which faction are they?
Northern Dunedain. They're Mlitia Captains, they've just been re-named in v3.
As Galu says, they are Dunedain. I believe they are the old Milita Archer Captains? Or whatever they were called. Basically the Non-Dunedain archer units loyal to the Dunedain.
@@feelingpine9123 so they are Tier 1 militia archers?
@@galnovak5943 No they're a T2 unit. They're roughly as good as Gondor Archers, but a fair bit better in melee.
@@feelingpine9123 where can i see them ( dev diary?) pls. tell me.
thnx.
Is this video based on changes from version 3? I'm playing a northern Dunedain campaign right now on version 2.2 and my steel bowmen have according to their info page the stats of 8 ranged attack 32 missiles 230 range and no mention of armour piercing(although that might be because their melee attack isnt armour piercing?). Also Dunedain rangers have 6 missile attack instead of 7.
Not too happy about Hearthguard beating steelbowmen. Cream of the crop dunedain archers getting beaten out by northmen feels kind of weird
shameful
14:02 idk why, but I was almost certain that this unit would get one of the top spot. Probably just because they look amazing :')
Does rise of Mordor have this awesome complexity in ranking their bow units? Adding in more missiles and various things to separate them all into more specific skills. I hope they do or will eventually add these types of distinguishing factors in.
i expected the hearthguard in the top 3 indeed
Well I tipped the Hearth Guard to win, so I was wrong there.
thanks Iluvatar. Nimrondel marines have normal hood and not chainmail hood
I still think Steelbowmen are way better both in battle and in camaign, for a few reasons: They have the highest melee attack of 16-17 (more with exp), wich make them Actually a really good great weapon unit in addition to their archer quality, while the ithilien ranger are garbage in melee and can't win against normal Uruks, plus the fact that they are armour piercing both in melee and at range, the uruks you've tested are midly armoured but with some other kind of highly armoured units, the steelbowmen would come 2nd behind the Hearhthguard. Plus the fact that in campaign, they are recrutable from every Important settlement no matter the region, they are recrutable in Isengard, Tharbad, Dol Guldur, Carn Dum ect wich allow you to have a pretty good number of thos and sustain you're army in newly gained settlements.
200 range on the blackshield archers damn they must not be too rare either (orcs). OP? They outrange numenorean steelbowmen by 20...
On paper they might seem pretty crazy but Gundabad only get two missile units in the entire game (Snow-Orc Scouts and Blackshield Archers)... but those two units are very good for their tiers.
What Hummingbird said. DaC's interpretation of Gundabad orcs are that they (the Gundabad orcs) are superior to other orcs at every tier, basically verging on Elven quality. That being said though, their cost and rarity also approaches Elven tier. Basically, Gundabad orcs are the premier elite orcs for the evil factions. They may be the best orcs, but they're still orcs nonetheless. Still, I look forward to crushing them as the Angmarim.
Ok they are nowhere near elven quality but maybe dale quality
@@Omuraisu0 Well I look forward to use the superior Gundabad Orc power to crush the pathetic shitty remnants of Angmar!!
I thought the numenoreans were unbeatable with a bow. I mean, the temple marksman and dunedain steel bowman should be the top of the humans archers, at least in accuracy, only the elite units of the elves should defeat them, at least according to their background.I supose that must be a issue with balance such as "powerful" units, but at least they dont deserve a better accuracy than most of the humans archers ?
I wouldn't get too hung up on accuracy. The difference between 3rd tier and 1st tier is 0.1. Where 0 is 100% accurate and 1 is abysmal. So the Ithilien rangers are only 10% more accurate than the 3rd tier units and only 5% more accurate than the 2nd tier. It is very minor and is one of those more hidden stats you never really notice unless someone mentions it in a video like this.
@ Well, i must eat my words, the dunedain steel bowman are pretty well balanced. Sry for the complaint.
I was wondering if the barding marksmen were going to make it as they had 6 AP damage in 2.2 at least.
I feel my boys, the dunedain rangers should be as accurate as the ithilien rangers.
Heh, everyone wants their personal favourite unit to be made the best. Can't please everyone.
@@feelingpine9123 Hence why i said feel, not think. Keep up the good work, man. This is my favourite mod. In any game.
@@feelingpine9123 Also, some things have to be changed for game reasons. If the steelbow was to be accurately represented, the steelbowmen would have the longest range of this list. But as ive proven, i am biased.
I disagree. Southern Dunedain --------> Nothern Dunedain 😜
Wouldn't it make more sense to balance steelbowmen by making them fire slower, not by giving them nonsensical range and accuracy?
Me: Hearthguard are gonna win
Galu: I am not considering shield/armour etc.
Me: Come on guys, you are still gonna make it to the top spot!
Galu: And no.1 of course Ithilien rangers!
Me: ... ... ... really?... .... ....
Thinking maybe barding marksmen or whatever their name was might be coming in second
I didn’t mean hearthguard so guess I was wrong
Aren't kamul's shadowrangers rangers too? I thought they would be at the top when you said that only two rangers were not on the list and didn't mention them at all.
didnt steelbowmen used to have a range of something like 200 or 220 meters in the old version? Thats a huge dropoff in effectiveness
It's a little strange how bad Dol Amroth archers are considering their somehow mix of both Dúnedain and Elven heritage.
Bad? What? There are over 100 archer units in this mod and their elite archer is one of the 10 best....
@ Yes! Bad! :) We are talking about Dol Amroth, not "normal" humans.
Like you said their absolute best unit barely enter in the 10th place of "non-elven" archers, not even absolute 10 best of the game.
Even Blackshield Archers (orc faction) are better than the absolute elite Dol Amroth archers which supposedly have both Dúnedain and Elven heritage.
Even with such noble blood in their veins their archers are worse than archers from an orc nation...how could anyone (knowing this facts) can think they are not bad?
It's like saying that Huddersfield town are not performing bad because they are in the premier league and there are much worse in the leagues above.
But it's just my opinion, you don't need to agree of course.
@@JXulo Dol Amroth have *the* best heavy cavalry roster in the game and some of the best human heavy infantry in the game. No they're not going to get elven-quality archers on top of that, blood or no blood. No amount of complaining is going to change that I'm afraid.
The Black-shield Archers are neither black nor have shields...but I am sure there is a reason for this misnomer? I will call them "Lossen-yryk cû-maethor"...
Am I right in thinking all of these units are recruitable for the Northern Dunedein under Beacon of Hope?
I guessed the Ithilien Rangers for two and one spot once I saw they weren’t two I knew they were number one. #GondorsFinest
Where do I need to edit to disable the black smoke effect from the Black Arrows along with the poison arrow effect? I don't like the visual effect (hurts realism, why would a dwarven-crafted AP arrow leave a black trail of smoke or a poison coated arrow have a greenish trail etc.) and I also don't really need the effects as a gameplay aide to discern who is shooting at whom.
descr_projectiles descr_arrow_trail_effects descr_flaming_projectiles
@@feelingpine9123 Just changing the relevant "effect" lines from descr_projectiles to "arrows_new_set" got the job done, thanks. I seem to have managed to change everything other than flaming arrows (which are fine by me) to the normal arrow effect (just tested in custom battle).
Hello Galu, i saw a comment in the Discord channel mentioning this, it seems like Farmhand Pikemen's are missing from the Anduin Custom Battle roster, i checked it in game and they can definitely train the Farmhand Pikemen's during the campaign, so why don't they also have access to them in Custom Battles?
You have access to them if you change the period to 'all'.
Top 10 Orc Archers when? :D
Once I saw Steelbowmen at 3 I knew Ithilien Rangers had to be first
Guess: orc scouts
For some reason I still think it will be a high elf unit who wins.
Hello, i want to speed up production in a city, to cheat. but i cant get it to work ith some city names.
I enter process_cq ''Ost Sûl'' but it says settlement not found :(
Can anyone help? I keep getting advice that i allready know :(
You can rename city to "Ost Sul" by clicking on the city name on a city screen. Then cheat will work with ""Ost Sul"
woah i thought the temple archers is no 1 followed by the steelmarksmen mainly because of my gondor playthrough where the slow gondorians would die on those temple archers and gondor cav is useless against them and the rangers are not able to win 1v1 against the temple archers. those steelmarksmen are my fav in campaign be it i can only have 2 max. On the topic of human rangers units i thought they would be good average archers somewhere between 3-5 heheh. Enedwaith Guardians (the jav/pike troop) is the best overall human troop for me
Stat changes nerfed them
Were there no units that tied?
I love me some good archers.
Galu i think you should update Ithilien rangers with taro_m version.Its so much better and cleaner looking.Gondors best deserves nothing more :)
Can you do archer calvery next?
#1 Ithilien rangers--duh, the cream of Dunedein
suprised the shadowrangers didnt make it