A rant: Copying, IP And Product Design
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Something that has been on my mind recently, and something I consider when thinking about reviews.
Shoutout to Jenn Chen (and those who responded), her recent tweet sharpened this in my mind:
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Let's promote those that innovate - not those who slavishly copy. 
Развлечения
James, I highly respect your commitment to integrity. Thank you for being a leading voice!
I just learned this is what Amazon does. It finds the most popular product in a segment, then releases its own version and puts it at the top of the search.
There’s a laundry list of problems I have with Amazon and that’s a big one. I support small business whenever I can.
Yea you can't list a product with Amazon unless you provide all details of it's manufacturing... So they can click copy paste billions
I specifically dont buy amazon basics for this reason
I think it's funny how people always call out China for copying IP when American corporations do the same thing. Not refering to James btw, because I think he has called out Amazon for doing this too.
Hi James, I just want to let you know that I really appreciate the level of integrity you put into your channel. It's not very common for someone to be this honest especially when they have such a level of trust with their audience. I know this is an older video, but I only recently found your channel.
I think there is a very fine line between being inspired by someone else's product, and copying their product. With the price point Hario is selling at, I'm always amazed when I seen someone trying to rip off their designs. Unless you are really using inferior materials, it's going to sell at a lower cost.
As a product designer, I hate when my ideas are copied and I hate being asked to make a design look just like an existing one. It feels like I die a little inside every time this happens.
As a product designer, I hate when my ideas are copied and I hate being asked to make a design look just like an existing one. It feels like I die a little bit inside every time this happens.
@@varaoz123 As a product designer, I hate when my ideas are copied and I hate being asked to make a design look just like an existing one. It feels like I die a little bit inside every time this happens.
@@rigdigwus As a product designer, I hate when my ideas are copied and I hate being asked to make a design look just like an existing one. It feels like I die a little bit inside every time this happens.🙃🙃
This is why James is my favorite person in the coffee industry! Allowing for this type of behaviors prevents new innovative designs. This is only one of the many problems with the coffee industry! Kudos for calling this out!
I'd personally love a list or blogpost of the original creators & brands that we should look out for. allowing us to more early connect with those brands to buy their products, Support them and further innovation.
Integrity is important in all industries. I’m glad to see you standing up for yours.
Must agree with you James. Being an owner of an industrial design firm in Toronto that do a lot of business with Chinese factories, we draw the line if and when they ask us to copy ANYONE. You just can't condone it, 100% no. I have personally tried to explain to factory owners why this is bad business and yes we are happy and willing to come up with a different design, with a different innovative feature that will give them a different positioning. Doesn't always work but you soon find out who you should or should not do business with.
james: "it's a pouring kettle"
yt cc: "it's a porn captain"
it's a hereo pouring kettle. is this hairy oh? no it's not a harrier pouring kettle. this is a hairy important kettle.
captain stabbin
You're right, they should expend on the design, not directly copy it. Hario has "some" outlandishly priced stuff, but this is not an excuse.
Honesty is rare. There's pride in being a coffee lover with someone like you in the community. I've never seen anyone do so much research for every single video. This is a great standard for how web content should be.
This is an important topic, thank you for stepping up, James! I have seen it way too much in my own industry (commercial lighting), it drove a lot of good companies to the ground.
I got a "Hario Kettle" a couple of years ago thinking it was the real deal, it was a very good copy of the original ones, it even cost me the same a the original, but within two months of use it started to rust at the inner bottom. What bothered me is that I got it from a very respectable coffee institution in my country, now I dont even know if they are scamming people or if they were the ones who got scammed, sadly I wont even dare to buy a lollypop from them thanks to that experience.
It's interesting - I am involved in another somewhat niche hobby: Flashlights (=torches). And there, almost all lights are produced in China. The very interesting part here is, that the Chinese manufacturers work pretty close to the flashlight enthusiast community, doing all kind of joint developments, where the community develops and prototypes a flashlight they want to see, people writing the code for the UI, some design the drivers and the Chinese manufacturers produce it for still a very cheap price as 1.) most of the design is done by the community so there is no big investment there 2.) as the design is done by the community, the lights are very well received and thought out and pretty much guaranteed to be bought as they represent what people want.
After seeing your struggles with intelligent scales and other whacky products, I think, similar projects could be possible in coffee.
That's a really cool concept, I hope this gets to be a thing in coffee and many other sectors soon
Ha ha, in Russia we have a word in a flashlight society. Flasholism. Flasholicks are the guys who have this hobby. You can join a huge Russian flashlight society on fonarevka.ru/ there is an English version too.
A) Crowd sourcing development of coffee gear sounds like a really cool idea.
B) I never considered a flashlight requiring code and drivers, or having much more of a UI than a power button. I'm intrigued.
Reg Barber is a gem. One of my coffee highlights was visiting his store when he was on Vancouver Island and getting a tamper custom made.
Love the rant. It is a broad problem - we've had our products ripped off more by American and German companies.. It's not just China...
orphanespresso at least in the US you can sue and have a chance to get somewhere.
Suit only works if the design is patented, and it is expensive, both to sue, and to patent.
The coffee field - Not at all true. We purge Taobao every few months and it is a straightforward process and their shops get closed down. Try that with Amazon and you get nowhere.
Still own a lido1 with all original parts. Love it! Built like a tank.
This needs to be top comment, in the west we're good a closing our eyes to what our own people are doing and LOVE to point fingers at other countries not within our vicinity. Worse is when you're a student and they claim everything you design for their own... it's discusting really.
Cheers! In 2021 this is still a huge problem, but with almost all product categories. Another big problem is that the quality issues with these cheap knock offs sometimes stray into dangerous territory, like using reactive allows and non heat resistant plastic for the handles.
I'm of two minds about this. Copying something that is trademarked or copyrighten is obviously illegal, but you can't copyright or trademark something utilitarian like a spoon, shoe, or shirt cuff. I get not ripping off designs whole cloth, but I also feel like saying that no one can make a tamper that has a rounded handle made out of this material is perhaps too far. Maybe I'm not understanding the situation, however.
In this case, the shape of the spout, the orientation of the handle, the overall size are all functional items that cannot be patented or trademarked. Could they have gone for a different shape of the body, though... hell yes.
But they can be design patented
Thibau Duquin functional items cannot be design patented. So that’s things like where the handle is in relation to the body, and the fact of there being a spout, etc. I still need to be able to make a kettle that works *exactly as well*, but just looks different. Otherwise we’re not talking about design patents.
This is why protecting clothing designs is pretty much impossible. The pattern on a fabric, yes, decorative stitching on the pockets, yes, but the shape of clothing, where the pockets are, etc.etc, no.
@@JasperJanssen yeah the body shape is the exact copy. the really targeting buyers who want the look of the original
Prima tamp
Someone with integrity - a rarity. clearly a good man.
I respect your opinion and agree.
I take pride in having a quality product and that includes the brand as well.
I’d rather support a company who created the original. They came up with the idea, design, and materials and that often has a deeper story behind it of innovation or commitment.
Some guy in his garage in the city, with boxes of outsourced overseas copies who posts pretty pics on Instagram, is simply selling a commodity of no value to me.
I acknowledge I’m not a typical consumer so unfortunately the copies are here to stay.
Fantastic. This shows integrity, the fact that what was supposed to be a review turned into an angry rant. Great Job.
A lot of this dates back to the import craze of 1981, and, I believe, one importer named David Moss.
I work in ceiling fans (in addition to many other fields) and they were a huge part of this. Ceiling fans just started to become popular just as the 1970s energy crisis hit. The manufacturer at the head of the "ceiling fan craze" was Casablanca who made their products by replicating American made designs from the early 1900s and marketing them using the movie Casablanca. One of their sales reps was a guy named David Moss. David Moss also had a firm representing lighting manufacturers and when the US made a new trade deal with China in 1979, he realized he could take Casablanca designs overseas, have them made by China and Hong Kong, and sell them to the US market much cheaper. He did this WHILE working for Casablanca until Burton A. Burton found out and of course he was fired.
David Moss would take "his" designs to a factory in China and Hong Kong, order as much product as he could, and not pay the bill. He would then take the same designs to a second factory and try again. Meanwhile the first factory, to recoup their losses, would manufacturer more product using the SAME designs, then market them to other American (and Australian) importers. As a result, by the early 1980s, pretty much all ceiling fans sold in the US started to look identical regardless of what brand they had stamped on them, what factory they were made at, and even what country they were made in.
I cant prove it, but I believe because a lot of overseas factories first experience with American importers was David Moss, he set the tone for the import of products for decades to come, and it's why most Chinese factories dont value American designs, patents, contacts, etc.
David Moss also had a yacht named "Poor People Suck".
I have to admit that I own both kettles. The worst thing is: the "copy" is superior in quality, functionality, customer service and price. So they managed to improve it in every way - except the basic design. What a missed chance …
Couldn’t agree more with you. I listed "functionality" because of the built in thermometer.
where do you get it?
There's an interesting point to consider. A lot of new companies in order to manufacture their products in China and spend even less money on manufacturing deal, sign agreements letting Chinese manufacture mass produce and sell their product without a brand in the Chinese market. That's why we usually see a lot of cheap clones spread out quickly after something new is released.
Love your video. The copy problem is a Big problem that can't be resolved by any force. People always want good products in good price. The expensive patent fee and weakness protection will also mattered.
This reminds me of when the fidget cube came out. Before their Kickstarter was over there were cheaper knockoffs. People wondered why I waited and waited more just to get from the original. Yeah sure now their price dropped since then, but the idea still stands. Also almost everything about the original was better (I used a friend's knock off before hand). I think you did the right choice.
Saaame as a fellow fidget cube backer
Yeah, same. I've handled many knock-off fidget cubes and not a single one of them has felt as nice as the Antsy one, from the mechanisms inside to the weight of it to the fit and finish and even the texture of the plastic.
This rant has got me subscribing your channel. I buy a lot of kitchen and baking gadgets and I watch what’s out there for reviews and also on RUclips before making up my mind what brand I buy. I was looking to buy Hario gooseneck kettle when I stumbled across your channel. Thank you.
This makes sense! I think you might be harsh on the Chinese aspect of it. Once a product is out, it's (relatively) easy to reverse engineer regardless of where its made.
In general, I very much agree that copying is bad. However, there are cases where copies (even poor quality ones) make a tool, or technique more accessible. There was a fun discussion on a recent 99% Invisible podcast about whether cheap copies of the Eames lounge chair actually further his vision of making an accessible comfortable chair.
Anyway, speaking of tampers... I would love to see a "Brief History of Tampers" video about the shapes and designs over the years. In many ways you don't realize the Reg Barber has had so much influence..until you do. From a newcomer's POV, you wouldn't know who came first. Also, tampers are just cool and there's so many great designs. (Been currently loving the Big Step because my RB was a special gift and I don't want to wear it down too much. :))
This video is so beautifully colorgraded😍🙈
That superbly polite angry rant is one of the most delightfully British things I've heard in a while. Well said! Just found you, loving the channel!
I just purchased a kettle like that, not from the originator, returning it today. Thank you for the rant, I completely agree with your stance.
I have to say you’re completely right doing this video... as an inventor and designer of innovative technology it is one of the huge problems and it does limit Products coming to market.....
I have seen that pouring kettle in many videos and in real life and never knew its name or manufacturer. Now that I do and I made a beeline to Hario's storefront and bought one. Thanks for the video!
Your thoughts on the trinity one?
I've been researching hand grinders for weeks and all I saw were knockoffs. It was so confusing as to who the original companies are. I settled on an authentic Hario Pro burr grinder. Love the channel!
Yes, you are absolutely right sir. And this is a good example why i subscribed to your channel and like to watch your videos. You seem to be an honest person.
Totally with you, and it is something that is difficult as a retailer too, because people will get sold on the idea in the shop, but generally always go for the cheaper online knock off (or just VAT free cheap import of the actual product). I've never seen any of the cheap rip-off being retailed in a coffee shop, these are not products that are endorsed by the industry as far as I'm aware.
I do think the manufacturers need to look at better pricing, as their is no real financial incentive for coffee shops to sell items like kettles or scales when it is hard to communicate the value and the margins are tight. Other side of this is reaching what I see as a bit of a plateau in terms of saturation, where many of the people who are interested have some sort of setup already and we aren't bringing in as many new customers.
Totally agree with the rant, it's plain wrong to copy another company's product design. Meanwhile, I'm looking for a gooseneck kettle in Brazil and the import prices are absurdly high. I would like to have the functionality of a gooseneck (good water flow control), regardless of how the product looks like (it doesn't have to look like a Hario).
Could not agree more. Thank you for taking this stand 🙏🏾👍🏾
I think you handled this perfectly. Good for you!
I agree with a lot of the points you have raised in this video, and it is a problem in a lot of industries whose products are not more established in the general public's mindset. One recommendation I would make, is to try and highlight the innovators more in your videos, for example when doing a review, or comparison, on espresso machines, be sure to use a Reg Barber tamper, and mention how he created the shape and why his tampers are the best (unfortunately you do need to repeat this a lot). It is up to the people who are helping to spread the knowledge about a subject to inform those with less knowledge, or are only looking for a single piece of information (i.e the best espresso machine at the price there are willing to spend), to hear the names of the innovators, so these innovators can become established at the luxury end of the market, similar to how the fashion industry operates (i.e. everybody can make a suit, but some brands are known for making high quality suits for a long time).
having been a small scale manufacturer of sewn goods (backpacks and outdoorsy stuff) I can say that this has happened even to me with a VERY small operation. It only takes a decently good idea and the right (or wrong) person in a bigger outfit seeing it before your idea has their branding on it.
This is a massive problem for all products. Thank you for noticing and ranting about it.
My experience with the Hario kettle was this:
I purchase a pouring kettle from Amazon that had a temperature gauge on the top and used it for about a year.
I saw a really good deal on the Hario pouring kettle and decided to buy it thinking that the quality of the Hario kettle surely would be superior to my cheap £20 Amazon kettle.
I was very wrong. From my perspective the Hario kettle felt cheap, flimsy, the lid didn’t snap on, the pouring experience was generally poorer. I got rid of the Hario almost immediately.
In this specific case what the Amazon product had done was iterate on the Hario product adding many useful features (snap on lid, temp gauge) and if Hario wants to remain in business they’ll need to provide reasons for their products over things that can be manufactured in china. Otherwise consumers lose out and might very well be prevented financially from entering the coffee game.
Iterative improvements based on existing products exists everywhere, think of Microsoft’s response to iPods, or androids response to iOS.
This creates competition which is ultimately better for the consumer otherwise Hario will continue to produce more expensive products that could be made cheaply. That’s business folks.
Does anybody know how to clean the inside of a Hario kettle?
It's a Catch 22. Sometimes the cheaper products allow for new people to get into the hobby while it does hurt the hobby.
@@jameshoffmann thanks so much for the reply!!! I am Accountant so I know how tough it can be!
Considering IP laws plays a huge role in neo colonialism and keeping the saveragy of colonialism alive, I support anyone taking an idea and making it more widely available, you know, the way things used to work before colonialism gave Europe (more specifically England in this case, funny enough) an advantage they could use to exploit the rest of the world.
I know this goes against everything people learn in the first world, since they are taught to protect the system that gives them privilege, but I do hope we can all agree to move to a fairer world. And that means weakening IP laws.
It's a kettle... Calling out a company for a kettle is like calling out a manufacturer for making cups. I guess every company out there copied whoever invented the plastic cup eh?
Absolutely agree with your poit. Lot of companies do the same thing and it is tiring. They offer something “promising “ but they just end up showing a cheap replica of existing products. Maybe modified a bit . Not to mention sometimes they don’t even know what are the advantages of their products compared to the originals .
My only concern and problem with this video is that you're right, to an extent. Yea copyright infringement is a huge problem but when companies in the coffee industry sell cheep, easy to make products for a rediculouse premium, I'm talking 1000% mark up, if not more. I think it's fair game for someone to devalue their product. For example, OCD makes a $200 distributor and I if I can get virtually the same product (which actually works quite a bit better) elsewhere for $15-$20. That just seams like the company is making their product out to be something it's not. Its pretentious, and unfair to the consumer to set a market price that far exceeds the value, manufacturing cost and just overall worth of said product. Idk about you, but when someone offers a product at 200 and then someone else offers pretty much the same thing for 15, something tells me it costs them about $2 to make it. (I can hear people now saying, what about cheeper material? yea, but if it's food grade and holds together the same, if not better, than the "name brand" why should it matter? After all atleast for this perticular example the material it is made of does not affect the outcome of what it is intended to do). I'm not trying to get screwed by a company that obviously has that in mind (let's not just make a decent amount of money and offer a good product, let's make an outrageous amount of money at the expense of others and offer them a MEH product).
To clarify I am not advocating for intellectual property theft, I'm advocating for a more, fair market price and less abuse within the market.
I think two things explain a lot of these price differences. One is that those copy products are manufactured with less quality control, lower tolerances, and lower grade materials. It's hard to tell as a consumer since we don't buy both and compare side by side, but I'd expect the hario in this video is made with thicker steel than the copy. The second is research and development. The hario kettle probably went through many iterations before they arrived upon the design they sell now, and a lot of thought went into it. It's like doing the math problem vs. copying the answer from a classmate
Peter Osnes I do agree with you and I understand companies do allot to keep their quality high, but I highly doubt that warrants a 1000% + mark up. Also, you make a great point about other manufacturers just copying and pasting, so yes, if I agree with a companies business ethics and the quality of their product, I will always purchase and support the original name brand. However, once they cross that threshold of outlandish mark up and adopt the mentality of, we should support them just because they are the original, that's where I draw the line.
I agree ☝️ with this 100%. Coffee products, in many cases, are just overpriced. Why does a distributor cost $200? Why does a scale the size of my fist and messed up apps cost $220? and why a metal drawer with a rubber bar to knock a coffee puck cost $200. Too much money for simple stuff and because of that the Chinese and other find an opening because the barrier to entry is low and they only need to reduce the prices to reasonable levels. I disagree with copyrights infringements but coffee products manufacturers need to take it easy.
If there were a way to actually know the cause and extent of the "markup", I'd agree with you. Otherwise, getting to skip R&D means different things for each product, so I don't believe that anyone except for the manufacturers actually know how justified the markup is.
One idea you could think of is that if markups had no rhyme or reason behind them compared with other copies, then the original companies would be screwing themselves out of profits, as more people buy things when the prices are lower.
Bravo pour votre implication (et vos vidéo bien sur !-). J'attend, avec une impatience non dissimulée, la traduction en français de votre livre.
Hey James. What about doing a pourover (V60) guide video? I'm just getting into coffee and recently purchased the V-60 and the wilfa svart aroma grinder (after being convinced by your review), but my results so far are simply sub-par, and I'm sure other people are in the same situation.
Like, the thing is, pouring kettles can easily be cool looking just by nature of their design requirements. That slender, long spout and upright kettle shape just look cool. I'd love to see people actually make something new instead of making half-baked ripoffs of existing IP.
Besides becoming mature with my spending, this is basically what's put me off window shopping on Amazon.
I appreciate your principles. Integrity is a great quality.
As an artist, thank you. This is a great drag.
OMG you all need to Calm Down!
This happens in Every Single Aspect of Design on a Global Scale! Fashion and Beauty, Art, Automotive, Machinery, Literature, Science, Technology - it's Everywhere you look - Even James' eyeglasses frame is a rip-off/inspiration from someone elses earlier design. And yes it is extremely frustrating to the original creators but rest assured, those who want the Hario Kettle or the Chemex or whichever iconic design item of choice, they understand the quality difference and will STILL pay premium prices for the real thing and not the Chinese knockoffs. And for those that do buy the clones and are happy with them, good luck and happiness to them.
This is great to see someone like you who has integrity. It's not something most of us thing about, so I appreciate you pointing it out.
so how do you protect ideas? when how, timing? if you have an original idea for a product that doesn't exist, do you do a patent first or something like that? please do a video on that
A point I’d like to make here is that some of these designs/products are not protected and cannot be protected. Not sure how you can protect a kettle or a tamper, etc. and even if you can protect the design of this stuff, other manufacturers can make a minor update in the design and innovate around those protections/patents.
I've watched half your video, and grown weary enough to stop, and make a counter-argument: Intellectual-property rights potentially are hugely problematic, and, to an extent, perhaps should be abandoned. Honestly, the example is excellent of supposing that a kettle has such authority that one may be accused in the first place of "copying it."
As a designer, Thank you!
love my hario hand grinder!
Thanks for the video. I agree that copying someone else's intellectual design, work, innovation is generally wrong and should not be practiced. Unfortunately, in today's society, people are valuing the quick cheap route to success at whatever cost. Personally, I am morally opposed to it and value integrity above other things, but some people do not feel the same. Usually it all comes back to them in the end though, the quick buck or copying or whatever tends to fall through over time. I just received the Barista Warrior kettle and did not even know it was a copy of the Hario design, which is unfortunate. However, the Barista's reviews do mention issues with quality control, longevity, rust, etc. that likely will not stand the test of time. Really quality will win everytime in the long run...
Thanks for the video.
Andrew
The Hario hand grinder is not a direct copy of the Kyocera?
Back in the day, maybe 8 years ago, or so, when we carried Hario & Kyocera, we found they seemed to be made cooperatively - jars for both made in the same factory, burrs, soft parts, all identical (down to tiny flaws & mold marks)
Thank you for this. We are in a unprecedented time that only warrants for ethically sourced innovative product. Lets build community, not try to tear eachother down. It would have been very simple to make a pourover kettle unique and somewhat innovative. The fact that they didn't atleast do that is very disappointing.
There is a Canadian company (and I am Canadian) made small small difference on other brand’s signature coffee products and claims it’s their own original (after the small changes). They donate money from the profit they make. But I just cannot buy from them. I rather just donate the money instead of encouraging this copying behaviour.
I think I know which company you're referring. I got introduced to them through their tea accessories line (and have not find other people offering quality borosilicate glass kettles - which is what I was looking for), but, with time, I increasingly noticed that their coffee equipment seemed similar in design to known brands. I used to recommend them due to their clean water initiative, now? I'm not sure. Again, tea-wise, I haven't seen borrowing of known designs...
Good for you!!! Hoorah! Thank you, James!
Do you think that the DF64 design borrows too much from the Lagom P64?
I assume the company in question is Coffee Gator?
I think that complaining that 'everyone' has copied the cited tamper design is perhaps harsh. What other shape would work? Has to have a round flat 'pressing surface' and a convenient handle. Lots of pre-existing tools have small bulb shaped handles; screwdrivers, awls, small planes, doubtless others. I have a couple of wooden handled tools with similar shaped handles that are probably at least 50 years old. A tall cylindrical handle could work, but the bulb shape allows a more convenient push down, in my view. I also cant imagine that the development cost was high and clearly, given the many tools with similar handles from the past, patenting anything other than the round pressure surface would seem to be rather a stretch. Having said that, I fully agree that just a straight copy of anyones work, without their consent, is indefensible; fully on board with the majority of the rant. You have got to love a good, passionate rant. Keep it up!
I think if you can tell the difference at a glance, it's fine. Obviously this was meant to look like a hario pouring kettle and that's a bit annoying. but seriously, how many different designs for a pouring kettle can there even be before you start to make something that looks like something someone else made. How close is too close, or how much do you have to change a design before it's its own thing? I think it's complicated and I'm not exactly sure where I stand on this particular instance. But in general I think copying is bad and it's kinda stupid.
Copying does not cause stagnation. Very long term copyrights and patents do cause stagnation. If a company advertises prestige based on simple design changes, then it is not a good competitive offering. If the company’s competitive offering was “made in home country” that is deserving strategy. If however a product is produced overseas, then their “prestigious” advertising is a weak offering not deserving of your defense.
Well done James. Unfortunately this is a consumer driven problem, so taking the lead as a key opinion leader is critical. if people understood the costs, effort, risks involved in R&D and refused to buy an imitation product then this wouldn’t happen. Unfortunately when manufacturers of copycat products don’t have to amortise the R&D costs onto production then they can offer better pricing, and the coffee consumer is cost sensitive so takes the cheaper option without respecting the IP. It’s also a factor of economy of scale, as specialist coffee is niche so sales volumes are relatively low in comparison to mass market products, making R&D a larger proportion of the final sale price.
Having spent 5 years battling in court with the worlds largest healthcare company over stolen IP, I can tell you that it is a very difficult problem to resolve through the legal system. So the risk to copying is also relatively low there too. Education is key! :)
Great vid, great point. Totally agree with you.
You are such a gentleman. Naming the issue. Making a statement. Fighting the problem. - All without naming the manufacturer and making them look like fools, which they are. What I love most about your well-made, informative, enriching content is the personality behind the camera.
Many people are willing to buy things they know have been stolen (which I find unbelievable). Its even less of a moral quandary for those to buy counterfeit products. In the end it's, "I got what I want".
What product do you use on your hair?
Hario hairspray obviously
This vid didn't get enough views, likes nor the credit it deserves. With all the copyrights etc claimed for a design people will still copy the product. Though they tell you copy is a form of flattery, you can't pay your billa with it and THAT'S the main issue with copying. Somebody spent hours, days, years of their life perfecting and engineering a product just to have it ripped off. It was something that made me depressed when I thought about it during my engineering course... Thank you for being so open, honest and direct about this!
Getting into coffee I made this mistake. I didn't really know about coffee brands and I found stuff on Amazon with good reviews that looked like the real deal. One of the brands I bought a bunch of stuff from is called Coffee Gator. The french press I got was covered in a shitty paint that peeled off within a few weeks; the plunger is cheap and bad, the kettle smells like burnt metal when heating water and their other gear is just other bad quality knock offs of which is all made in China. It's funny because I've had a smaller Bodum French press which is about 10 years old and still works perfectly while that crappie copy ended up in recycling. I learned a good lesson, though.
I'm pretty sure the kettle in the video was from Coffee Gator right? Looking at their kettle on Amazon it looks identical to the one he received.
@@guts311 Pretty sure it is, yes.
This is an important discussion for the industry to be having. Sure, undiscerning consumers may be happy to buy the knockoff - but coffee professionals (who know better) should not be selling them on the shelves in their cafes. Raising awareness and changing attitudes can make a difference.
Weird, the video length on the thumbnail is incorrect, shows as longer.
Agreed, as a product designer it is a constant problem, have your own original ideas!! Think, use your brain to make something instead of taking the easy road and copying ideas.
“I don’t care that they stole my idea, I care that they don’t have any of their own...” Tesla
What about Mahlgut and their tampers and distribution tools?
Mahlgut was the first to knock off our Pharos. And no, it wasn't patented...
I love this, thanks James
YES James, most consumers would totally agree with you. I once purchased sewing pattern from ebay that was photocopied from original and I was outraged and sent it back. I dislike dishonesty regardless of how it is packaged.
Unfortunately, it's all part of the game, it's a huge problem in all industries especially in vaping. BTW, love your channel James, just subscribed. Came across you from your Sage Oracle review whilst researching coffee machines suitable for a vape lounge..
THANK YOU FOR CALLING OUT COPY-CATERS AND STANDING UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT ! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Not too harsh. You handle these things so well.
This brings back memories of having to close my jewelry design business years ago. I would pay a lot of money to reps to do the big shows in Las Vegas, San Francisco, and others, only to have rip off artists watch to see what was selling. Within 3 weeks my ripped off designs were at the next big show for 1/3 the price. Would love to see some kind of protection, like a one year artist's design patent, available to reduce this big problem.
Bravo James, I have many coffee gadgets, from England, Italy, Japan and Taiwan, I see the fake hario siphon ( "Japanese Siphons" advertised ) And it makes my blood boil, I support your stance 100%
Integrity a true gentleman stand for what you believe in even if you stand alone.
Good on you for calling out the copied products. Best to always avoid counterfeits, copies. If in doubt and it is made in china or even just ships from china, just avoid.
I really like James mentioning the community betrayal. I think since we are community of people with intention to serve good quality product we cannot simply ignore these issues of fairness within economy of our industry (which might be uneconomic but moral thing to do) and another one I must say is definitely wages - which might be monetarily connected to this issue - not having economically strong community enough. I would say that it is my common sense not to copy in over excess and gain some benefits if you don't put the credit to right people / producers. Another question is sociological - why do other not think so? Is it tax of multicultural world or just convenience and ruthless market connected to the ruthless wages? BTW James's another video with dices is again connected to the personal failure of having common curtsy. Do we need more couching like this?
Totally of your opinion!
Thank you a lot. I will never buy a copy of sth as it affects our economy and in consequence also our jobs. Usually the original also is better as chinese people are good in making look alikes without any idea of how it works.
What's even more despicable is when the counterfeit companies try to sell their product as the original. I recently bought a Timemore C3 grinder for suspiciously cheap on our local version of Amazon, but I did not notice the product page never actually said Timemore anywhere, just Chestnut C3, and even used Timemore's product images. When I received the product, it did seem of decent quality, but I returned it immediately and reported the seller (fat lot of good that will do)...
is there a non chinese stovetop gooseneck kettle with a thermometer?
Ethical coffee man is ethical. News at eleven. ;) Seriously, though... I like that you took the ethical stand! Good on you!
Love how the background music matches the tension of the vid's narrative - and how it constrants with the super relaxing music that accompanies James' all other videos
agree, just ordered a Hario buono kettle