Are Toyota's New Turbo Engines a BAD Idea?
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- Опубликовано: 2 сен 2023
- Since Toyota showed the new Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Land Cruiser, people have been sounding off on the subject of Toyota's new crop of turbo engines. Replacing reliable V6 and V8 engines with smaller displacement turbos is always going to ruffle the feathers of truck enthusiasts, but are they objectively less effective than the naturally aspirated engines they replace? From a reliability standpoint, obviously only time will tell; however, as I mention in the video, Toyota has a solid history of making potent and reliable turbo powertrains, some of which are even famous for being both turbocharged and reliable. The 2JZ in particular is a sought after engine known for being over engineered to handle big boost over time. For me, I'm less interested in the badge on the body or under the hood and more interested in the actual performance and real world fuel economy the powertrains provide. The new iForce Max engines in the Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Land Cruiser (as well as the iForce engines in the Tundra and Lexus GX 550) combine big power with solid fuel economy. If the GX 550 gets the iForce Max twin turbo V6, it will be an absolute monster. Time will tell. Let me know what you think, and thanks for watching!
#toyota
#toyotatacoma
#toyotalandcruiser 
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We are witnessing the end of an era where products, much like the once durable washing machines and refrigerators of the past, are built to last. Today, these appliances often need replacement within just a few years, leading to higher lifetime costs for consumers. This trend now extends to automobiles, as we enter an age where everything becomes obsolete more quickly and becomes costlier.
When considering the 'all-time best and most reliable Toyota engines,' the absence of Toyota turbo engines from this list is notable; only naturally aspirated engines are mentioned. This isn't just hearsay; the data from Toyota's lineup confirms this trend. Unfortunately, consumers' options are narrowing due to government regulations.
While Toyota might produce the best turbo engines compared to its competitors, the likelihood of developing a turbo engine that matches the durability and longevity of their best naturally aspirated engines is low. The focus of the modern workforce on minimizing costs and complying with regulations has shifted priorities away from R&D for durability, which older generations valued more.
The decision to use turbos primarily in sports cars in the 90s, rather than across other models, underscores this point. If turbo technology was about innovation for improved torque and mileage, as some suggest, it would have been more widely adopted then, just as those attributes were recognized. However, unlike the shift from analog to mobile phones, which was a leap in technology, turbo engines do not represent a similar breakthrough in innovation.
What about the catastrophic engine failures regarding the 3.4 twin turbo v6? I've been hearing stories of Toyota replacing short blocks, but problems continue. Sure, numbers wise the number of failures are a smaller percentage than some other manufacturers, but it doesn't seem very "Toyota" to me that a few engines are being replaced under 50k miles.
This is true, no doubt: however, the number of engines that this happened to is still relatively small statistically speaking, even for Toyota, and while some of the services were inconvenient, pretty much without exception Toyota replaced everything under warranty. I was told that there were some parts that were not up to spec from suppliers, and after some of the engines went boom and Toyota investigated, they parted ways with that supplier in order to ensure such failures didn't happen in the future. If you look up early model years of some of their most robust platforms and powertrains, you'll see some teething issues with those as well. It is not uncommon. What's different is that Toyota's reputation is perfection, and the internet loves a good fall from grace story. which means a Toyota parts failure gets FAR more coverage than another manufacturer.
@@jax1079 speak to scotty Kilmer about this would you
You are mostly correct and have some good data points. But you have to remember that turbos take specific maintenance and driving habits to make them reliable/durable. And modern technology to keep turbos have come a long way…as you mention not like the 90s. But you simply cannot make the argument that they are equal in reliability as the best naturally aspirated engines. Yes, you mentioned some good turbo ones, but let’s compare the best Toyota turbos to the best naturally aspirated…like the 1GR. Ultimately, it’s still true that less moving parts equal better reliability. You can tout modern technology that are able to keep turbos cooler, like a dual volute, those are ultimately additional parts that will go bad at some point.
Tell me how can I access the turbo in these new 2.4L inline 4 without taking out the engine. I don't trust these turbos lasting 200k miles.
Not sure many brands are taking the DIY crowd into account these days.
@@jax1079 With that said, hiring a mechanic for 1 hr vs 12 hrs, is the real point.
The turbo is accessible on the front passenger side of the 4 cylinder. However on the new Tundra the cab has to be removed and we're not even sure what has to be removed when the turbo fails on the new GX. Turbos might be fine for cars, but I go to the desert for a few weeks at a time with my naturally aspirated Tundra and don't have to worry about reliability. I don't think I'll be buying a new Toyota or Lexus.
I currently have 300k miles on a 4.7 iForce V8 Toyota engine. I averaged out all normal maintenance and repairs performed to any system over 14 years.
All Maintenance: $570 per year
Engine related Repairs: $60 per year
I’ll pass on the Toyota turbos until these newer engines start hitting 150k without major issues.
I’ve heard the horror stories from Ecoboost owners.
Understandable 👍🏻
I had a ford ecoboost and it was a disaster. I had to trade in the truck at 35k. Nothing but a piece of garbage. Turbos are a headache.
my issue is IF and WHEN they break, both turbos and hybrid batteries are insanely expensive to fix, so initially sure the few extra mpg and power seems great but in the long term at what cost?
I think there's two ways to look at this: first, there are thousands of Toyota hybrids driving around with hundreds of thousands of miles on the odo with zero problems (one of the reasons Toyota has stuck with nickel hydride for so long). There's absolutely no reason to prematurely assume current or next gen hybrids will be less reliable. Second, if consumers expect Toyota to be statistically more reliable over a long ownership experience, then in the event of a turbo replacement the money saved in unforseen costs over a decade would more then make up for the cost of a replacement (as opposed to forced induction trucks from GM or Ford). At the end of the day, the numbers will tell the story, but if I were to bet on a company for longevity and reliability, I'd bet on Toyota before anyone.
@@jax1079 Yeah most of them are Prius.
It's the added complication people don't like. It's the high repair cost of turbos, not the performance! The public is now being used as lab rats until engineers can work the issues out of the new generations of turbos and superchargers.
But my problem with this line of thinking is that we’ve been here time and time again and people act like it’s a surprise. Carbs gave way to fuel injection, and people complained about electronics, complexity, and reliability. Fuel injection gave way to direct injection, and people complained about… the same thing. Now we’re seeing more forced induction engines and guess what…? Same complaints. It’s silly. Tech becomes smaller and more complex over time but also cheaper and more efficient.
Thats what warranties are for. If you had a choice between turbo engines between GM, Ford, Dodge, Hyudai, Nissan, and Toyota. Which would you go with?
@jax1079 you have a point but if you have issues with those they don't blow your engine out. My turbos let go with all the collent and blew my heads out of my engine while going down the freeway.
not everybody can afford a brand new car so they can have a warranty....
@@2088ntisgetinfuckjoebidden what
Best Toyota Cheerleader I've ever seen! 5 stars lol, feel sorry for the blind masses that follow this guys advice. Talk to real mechanics and blow that smoke up there butts about turbo longevity, maintenance and repairs and see what they have to say. Stay in your lane and just review.
Well, at least I got five stars. Also "their"
Great video brother! I try to remind myself to be open minded to the new options but also have a deep appreciation for the bulletproof reliability reputation Toyota has developed over the years. I’m
hopeful for what Toyota is bringing to the table now.
Thanks, man! Totally agree! For what it’s worth, I’m not really declaring any approach better, I just don’t like to dismiss things based on bias or feelings… even if I would also love a stonking burbling V8 in everything. 😂
Leased a 23 Highlander Platinum 4cyl turbo.. I traded in Lexus GX V8.. initially I told the salesman there’s no way I could drive a four-cylinder after a test drive without using sport mode extremely impressed and I got the car. No regrets totally trust Toyota for reliability. I have no doubt they did their research before putting a four-cylinder turbo on the market, it’s the only brand I trust
Excellent point. If you’re going to buy into one brand for turbo powertrains, wouldn’t it be Toyota?
Same thoughts. They have had tremendous success with their turbos.
Try loading thousand pound at the back and Tow a trailer I like to see your SUV can survive that too.
Great vid! Theres not very many user vids out there, but do you suppose theres any yards or places I can buy the t24a-fts separately?
Great video, JAX, and OH SO TRUE! These new Toyota engines were SO overdue. Oh, and loved your editing, too!
Thank you! I really appreciate it 🙏🏻
I’m thinking of buying a Toyota Proace City. 1.2 turbo, 7 seater. I am concerned about the turbo. What do you think?
5 Reasons You Shouldn't Buy A Turbocharged Car: ruclips.net/video/m2qExaEwn0g/видео.html
Why Not to Buy a Turbocharged Car: ruclips.net/video/StzxurC95-E/видео.html
No One is Telling You the Truth About Turbocharged Cars, So I Have To: ruclips.net/video/72zthKioHzk/видео.html
5 Things You Should Never Do In A Turbocharged Vehicle: ruclips.net/video/dyEYaN6Y_FM/видео.html
Here’s Why Turbos Suck: ruclips.net/user/shorts8ifZJ1kLy14
The Truth About Turbo Engines: ruclips.net/video/zkcCU2_iPI0/видео.html
How To Make Your Modern Turbo Engine Last Longer | Are They Less Reliable?: ruclips.net/video/Gn5hrhTEERQ/видео.html
Are you trying to tell us something...? I mean, I'm sure we could play this game in reverse...
@@jax1079 Game? I simply showed you videos by Automotive Engineers, Master Toyota Mechanics and Automotive Mechanics with over 50 years experience, and what they are saying, (in their own words, not mine), about turbo engines.
@@morpheus1818 I just mean RUclips is a big place, and there are probably a number of videos making contrary points. I'm not saying your examples aren't valid; there are certainly strong opinions on both sides. For what it's worth, I never really intended this video to be a justification for Toyota's new engines but rather a different perspective amidst all the shouty hysteria regarding the iForce powertrains.
@@jax1079 The bottom line is that if we don't push back on this small engine/turbo agenda; much like consumers pushed back (didn't buy) EVs, in a few years V6 twin turbos will become 4 cylinder twin turbos, 4 cylinder turbos will become 2 cylinder twin turbos and 2 cylinder twin turbos will eventually become turbo hamster wheels...all in the name of the "green agenda".
@@morpheus1818 Disagree. It's about doing more with less, and the agenda is helping us live more responsibly within the world. The EV pushback has more to do with a complete lack of supporting infrastructure and availability. Daily drive any competent EV, such as the Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 6, and you'll see that it's miles better than its ICE equivalent in terms of comfort, speed, and practicality--which are all what you want out of a daily driver. At any given moment, tech is the worst it will ever be and only improve from that point; so it is with small displacement turbo engines and so it will be with battery tech as well. Declaring the old ways are better hasn't ever worked out in human history and just delays inevitable technological Improvement to everyone's detriment.
From owning the 5.7 to trying the new tundra and having issues. Back to the 5.7.. no one wants a headache or to be inconvenienced on a road trip. Look up the issues many are experiencing already. Even the 2024’s.
What issues did you have?
I refuse to pay all that money (mark-ups) just to be a Lab rat. I will wait a little longer and see the end results. If it works, which I hope it does. I also think that the maintenance and repairs will be more expensive than the V6 NA engines. More parts more money.
I think that's a very reasonable approach, which is really all I'm getting at. The irrational responses to some of these new powertrains is unfounded until the results come in, which will take a few years. I think a "wait and see" approach is totally understandable, but a wholesale dismissal because of feelings, isn't.
Some people just don’t want to deal with more parts more maintenance. There’s also a shortage of mechanics in the USA. So if you plan to buy and drive it into the distant future you’re more than likely looking at BMW high mileage maintenance bills when you want to keep these turbo Toyota 4x4’s. That has to be known and mentioned upfront.
When you start getting 1,000,000 miles on those engines, then I will consider those as reliable engines. Until then I will stick with my good old 5.7 and chug along. And stay away from the dealer for repairs. They have been making the 5.7 for so long They have gotten all the bugs out of it. I love my 1794. It has an absolutely beautiful interior and with the Trd package it rides amazing.
Which is kind of my whole point in a way: people are being quick to judge and form opinions with no long term data to support them, only past experiences. This video is meant to highlight the fact that turbos have been used for quite some time in vehicles generally praised for performance and longevity
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You sir earned a sub with this video. Got a 2024 Tacoma already and love it. Drives so much better than the 2021 I had, no gear hunting, more comfortable to sit in, better power. I have driven nothing but Tacomas and have no doubt this turbo 4 in the long run will be just as reliable. Will Toyota have some issues? of course everyone does, but I trust Toyota reliability.
I agree. Issues will no doubt happen with a new platform and powertrain, but over time Toyota will likely prove more reliable than the competition.
This is a colossal mistake by Toyota and Lexus. Bring back the v-8
I mean, everyone loves a good V8
Policy makers no longer represent the electorate. Evil draconians!
Turbos well since they're so great is that why they've been breaking down like crazy over and over for 2025 versions question mark
It’s because we’ve already watched this movie with everything else that went to smaller engines with direct injection and little turbos. They are all terrible once you put serious miles on them. TERRIBLE!
You have too many rhetorical questions. That being said, and you can ask any engineer - Simplicity=reliability. The more parts you put into a "Function of (X)", the greater the engineering challenge and the greater chance of one of those parts breaking.
Give us some engineering, not anecdotal examples.
Anywho - why did the Toyota 3.4 become so reliable? Shim on bucket valve spring operation, Simple but effective twin camshaft design. Girddled bottom end, oil cooler, oil squirters, Simple but effective emmission controls (their solution to air injection and atomization of the injected gas.
These are reasons why the 3.4 was reliable. My first question is, how do they plan on ensuring longevity of the turbo for city driving?
This is a common oversimplification. You can safely say that simple means more reliable in its most literal sense, but that removes all context from the discussion. An electric motor is simpler than a combustion engine. It’s more efficient, makes power faster and easier, and it results in an improvement in day to day usability… but only in its precise intended function. In contextual practice, it complicates the ownership experience because the infrastructure has not caught up. The phones many people are watching this video on are infinitely more complicated than the rotary dial phones of my youth, but I doubt anyone would categorize their iPhone as “unreliable” and praise rotary phones for their simplicity. Moore’s Law explains the rate of technological progress and to a certain degree complexity as a result. We presuppose failure and look for confirmation bias to explain it in resistance to tech all the time. I intended for this video to serve as a simplistic counterpoint to that and to restate my overall thesis: if I’m going to bet on one automaker to get forced induction powertrains right over the long term, it’s going to be Toyota. Is that a more adequate response?
@@jax1079 Yes, that is a better statement. I would second that statement. I did oversimplify my analogy, but it is true. Moors law doesn't really apply here. We are talking about engineering statistics and how complexity of a given function leads to less reliability. Toyota mitigates those failures through fanatical engineering, design, and testing. All about the Six Sigma man ;)
@@henryross4343 Well said, and it’s that Toyota engineering that I’m willing to bet on. That said, it’s very likely that we’ll be buying an early GX 550, and I will absolutely report any issues (especially powertrain) here on the channel. I’m a Toyota/Lexus fan, but not a cult member 😂
Toyota Turbo is been around for years. They used for sports cars and SUVs but are they carrying thousand pound at the back and towing? It is another level of stress for Turbo doing that stuff. When you do camping or using power tool you can use Tacoma power outlet. To get the max output you need to leave the engine on. But when you do that with turbo engine you get warnings. Long idling can damage the turbo. When cooling systems fail the repair is catastrophic due to aluminum parts used. Turbo is good system until before you see the problems.
Maybe. Time will tell.
@@jax1079 Its already been told.
Please review this content taking into account the current events with the V6 twin turbo...
If you say so...
The only issue I can probably foresee that may be a problem is the stresses that are put on smaller and less numerous parts. Say you got four cylinders and four connecting rods taking that kind of torque now instead of six or eight as in with the V-6 and V-8. Plus all that torque and stress put on to all the running gear in a higher capacity. Now if somebody was to maybe their truck and not put the pedal to the metal Then I could agree that there’s no reason to be concerned
This is true; however the running gear can be beefed up in the same way it would be for something like a diesel.
I was looking to purchase the Honda CRV-LX or EX and had no idea about this turbo issue. Makes since. I am not sure if these 2024 Honda vehicles are properly put together. Can someone lead me to some small SUVs that are Naturally Aspirated and if turbo, are well put together. I currently own a 2008 Honda Accord, but it has 265,000 miles on it and it has been giving me some issues the last two years. Leaking oil, o2 issues, etc... I am just tired of putting money into it and looking for a reliable new, small SUV. I know Hondas, Lexus and Toyota have been reliable vehicles in the past. I live in the South Suburbs of Chicago and looking to raise the vehicle off the ground, meaning, it is hard to see during the winter months, when you are riding behind other vehicles and don't get me started on the rocks hitting the windshield. Any help, I would appreciate it.
Avoid the earth dreams engine - 1.5L
"Gov Overreach" is real. Mandates for MPG performance have been made by the USDOT. Calling people a "Conspiracy Theorists" is absurd.
Not any more absurd than people who deny climate science...
@@jax1079 Most believe climate science. Taking non proven or real world tested actions beyond what a existing infrastructure can and does get absurd. Climate has been changing ever since the world was created.
The perfect day for me to comment on this Jax.
Today I drove by a Land Rover on the side of the road overheating I wanna say it was a 2019-21 Range Rover sport, coincidentally, I also drove by a Mercedes GLS fairly new, looked about a couple years old also on the side of the road.
And I am immediately felt better about my outdated, 2022 GX 460 with a gas hog of an engine but I know that if I keep up with my simple maintenance that will never happen to me. And that my friend is luxury, I’ll eventually upgrade to the new GX 550 but that’ll be 8-12 years from now. I’ll let them iron out the turbo kinks first.
Absolutely perfect timing for this comment as well. I was on my way to the store a few hours ago and traffic came to a stop. The culprit? Good old Jeep Wrangler completely dead in the middle of the road 😂
Just a thought of that gives me anxiety
@@jax1079 It must have been one of the new v6 Wranglers, right? The old 258 / 4.0 L inline 6 engines were bulletproof. #stirthepot
The only thing I’m gunna say is most people love the mileage and torque but they don’t maintain it properly which causes all the issues.
A wise buyer would let them work out the kinks over the next 3 years then check one out. 4cylinder LC is meh. V6 GX is a way safer bet.
Always a good idea with any new model or platform. Hope they prove themselves over time.
This “ungodly” power your talking about is hybridized. That’s why they’re making all that power on the “max” options. The motors them selves will be over worked. Science says they could never last as long. You’re missing the main point of a Toyota enthusiast. They don’t want fuel economy, they don’t want tons of power. They want reliability, that’s what made them the 1 manufacturer across the globe and what ultimately made people keep coming back. If you want all the things you talked about you can find that from any manufacturer. Just my 2 cents. I enjoy your videos.
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Truth in this video. I recently purchased the 24 RX 350 with turbo. Folks are hating on it - but honestly it's very quiet and has great torque at a very low RPM. I'm really happy with it. I also have a 23 Ford Tremor with 3.5 twin turbos - FORD has been doing this for years - tend to be a leader with engines and materials and not a follower. Anyway the Tremor has 500 ft lbs of torque at 3000 rpm - an unbelievable feeling. Still getting 16 MPG in the city.
Nice! Thanks for watching 🙏🏻
Aviation mechanic here just allow the engine to warm up prior to driving. The worst thing you can do to any turbo is drive on a cold engine/oil. Additionally maintenance is based on how you treat anything.
So glad I was able to get one of the last 6 cylinder motors made in my 4 Runner
I think many people agree.
How about towing capacity with turbo 2.4 engine going in the 4runner
6500 lbs max in Tacoma, so I’d imagine at 5k lbs in 4Runner depending on available powertrains.
6,000lbs now
Thank you so much for this. I've been undecided between the sequoia and the ford expedition. Ford has been making there twin turbo v6 longer but has known issues. I was worried about toyota's new engine cause it was too new but everything you argued was on point
Of course! Glad you found it helpful!
Anything over a ford lol
those turbo engine was replaced with turbo after market parts, race car turbo engine you mention is designed for speed and reliable for certain period. NOT FOR LONG TERM RELIABILITY. The turbocharged 22R-TE (sold from late 1985 through 1988) produced 101 kW (135 hp; 137 PS) at 4,800 rpm and 234 N⋅m (173 lb⋅ft) at 2,800 rpm. what 135HP??? it is different from toyota current much complicated engine which has more HORSE POWER, WHICH MEANS MORE HEAT. WHAT ABOUT THE FAILURES OF THE LATEST V6 TWIN TURBO ENGINE ??? WHY IS THE CURRENT 4RUNNER STICKS WITH NON-TURBO ENGINE TIL TODAY IF TURBO IS SO RELIABLE WITH THE LESS POINT OF FAILURE.
Not failures, issues that were solved by Toyota and a switch to a better parts supplier.
@@jax1079 Are Turbocharged Engines Reliable? The Truth About Turbo Engines - Car Help Corner
and the waste gate issue was fully covered under warranty AND only effected a small number of vehicles in the 2022 model year. @@jax1079
2JZ came with a turbo factory.
Tundra had some faulty parts. Toyota has moved quickly to get them fixed.
As for the 4runner, look at the new Land Cruiser my guy.
The new 4R is gonna be that but cheaper.
2022 NX350 has this 2.4 turbo engine. It has been 2 years now, have you heard any issues of this engine yet?
I just went on the Toyota website and I don't see any increase in gas mileage(I already have 2 Tacomas) but I do see a large increase in price
It's a big increase in POWER with a marginal gain in fuel economy along with reduced emissions. All good things.
I think the point you’re missing is proven reliability vs the new thing that needs to still be proven and improvements/kinks and recalls need to be fixed. Just got a new 2024 4Runner over waiting for the new 2025 because it has a proven reliability. All the added tech is just more things that could break
I'm not really missing it... It's kind of my whole point. How can we compare something with earned reliability to something brand new and then immediately dismiss the new thing as not being as good with zero long term data to prove it?
@@jax1079 I hope the new one will be good. However, we can compare since they've had some time since its practically a 24 Tacoma from the cab forward. I believe it is still unlikely to be as reliable as 5th gen, because from 2017 it has record breaking reliability, more tech usually equates to more things that can go wrong, and turbos, simply because you're adding pressure and parts, have the potential to fail, costing more in labor and parts to fix. Doesn't mean you shouldn't hope to expect 200k miles with good maintenance. I personally dismissed it, because I am not willing to take the risk with my wallet, (since its not that fat lol), on the 25, as it is not proven. I put my money on the 24.
@@jcbriskey I think you hit the nail on the head for a lot of people: like it or not, our wallets are too light to risk it.
@@jax1079because the new thing has the equivalent of a timing belt change service in terms of replacing turbos later on to keep them running. There are going to be hundreds of thousands of beat Toyotas needing maintenance that owners simply won’t do. They’ll trade them off when they get 3k dual turbo quotes for replacement. A simple timing belt change on a 4.7 L Toyota V8 is now 2k to run 90,000 miles. If you assert that dual turbo replacement will be cheaper I’d like to see how …
@@SLHJR0390 Let's use those numbers: if a dual turbo replacement on iForce Max Sequoia engine is $3k and a timing belt on the 4.7 liter V8 is $2k over the span of 4-5 years, you're talking about a $200 - $250 a year difference in maintenance compared to one of the most reliable Toyota engines of all time, itself a high water mark. If you were to compare that to a brand of lesser quality, assuming small and irritating gremlins here and there (to say nothing of a major problem before 100k), an iForce Max that covers the same distance needing nothing more than routine maintenance before the theoretical turbo replacement is STILL a better value. Then when you factor in the 583 lb/ft of torque and equivalent or better fuel economy than the old 4.7 and 5.7, the difference becomes academic.
I swear on my grandpops ashes I bought a 2023 Tacoma TRD Off Road yesterday. Had 9k on it.
Enjoy an insane repair bill in a couple years when that turbo takes a crap, which it will without question do.
I’ll have my 2023 for another 290k without issue.
People are making a lot of assumptions with no data. Comparing a new platform and powertrain to one that's over a decade old is not an accurate representation of long term reliability.
At 40k, or whatever they cost, the concern surrounding a new platform is not unwarranted. To defend a new and untested platform is irresponsible at best; schilling at worst.
Also, there isn’t a turbo out there that will last 300k reliably. The naturally aspirated V6 has a track record of doing just that.
@@Tt-nt1iu Saying we should wait for data before making unsubstantiated claims is hardly schilling.
Just because a smaller turbo engine has as much or more power and better fuel efficiency does NOT mean its better for reliability. Turbo is not a new technology so why do you compare this as if it is newer and better.
Oh yea, there is a reason the V-8 Corvette has survived for so many decades vs other cars especially the 90s Japanese twin turbos.
Turbos are a very bad idea for the long term. Turbos turn up to 100,000 rpms! There is a LOT of heat generated from turbos. Excess heat generated from turbos cause parts to fail sooner including water pump and other parts in the engine compartment. So disappointing to see manufacturers force turbos on people. I'd of rather have a non turbo hybrid. I had a turbocharged car as one of my first car. The turbo blew a head gasket. I thought it was a fluke and bought another one. Another blown head gasket. Never again will I buy a turbo car. They are cheap for manufacturers but very expensive to repair. Turbos are bad for long term reliability. Stay away from them!
This is a pretty big oversimplification, especially since you didn't mention the make, model, or year of the cars you had fail on you and neglect to recognize the 2JZ (which I specifically mentioned in the video) as part of the 90s run of turbo engines. There's also the fact that diesel engines have run turbos for years, and the Toyota Tacoma was tested on the commercial vehicle duty cycle for this exact reason: to meet the longevity requirements owners expect. And I have a C5 Corvette with the mighty LS1. There's no doubt that the LS1 is an all-time great engine, but I currently have the Acura Integra Type S in the driveway making 320 hp and 310 lb-ft of torque from a 2 liter turbo 4 cylinder. That's incredible. Will it last as long? Hard to say, but don't act like legendary GM smallblocks were without fault because they weren't (LS7, anyone...?). Only time will tell, so we'll have to wait and see.
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More data: Turbos are components that spin at over 20,000 RPM, resulting in increased heat and wear. This added heat goes into the same oil that lubricates the engine, accelerates oil breakdown, necessitating more frequent oil changes. Consequently, this increases costs and the likelihood of customer service errors, ultimately reducing the engine's durability.
Additionally, a turbo requires more sensitivity to warm up the oil so that turbo can be properly cooled. In cool weather, if owners don't properly warm up their cars before driving in a certain way, premature wear can occur because of insufficient lubrication.
All of these statements are facts of the mechanics of how a turbo works today and years of data aren't needed to substantiate these facts.
Numbers going up aren't always good. In this case, turbos equal more heat. This isn't theory. This is fact.
Customers don't want to do twice as many oil changes or pay twice as much as before to get the same durability they had before.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but... people are acting like tech and facts exist in a perpetual vacuum, and the same components and issues that historically have been a problem have not kept pace with turbo and engine management advancements. To dismiss entire powertrains outright because of past problem areas would cease all advancement across the industry. Does direct injection have side effects? Sure, but it's vastly more efficient. And people love to cherry pick examples that they exempt from their negativity: Porsche has been using turbos for years... but that doesn't count, for some reason. The Germans in general have, and some powertrains have had spurious reliability... but everyone who shouted negatively from the rooftops that the BMW M3 went from E46 straight six to E92 V8 to F80 twin-turbo straight six (and continues with the G80 gen) have since quieted down. (And of course there's the B58 powertrain that has proven to be unusually powerful AND pretty reliable...) As tech progresses there will be bumps in the road, but rather than shun innovation based almost entirely on past precedent, I think we should celebrate progress -- especially when it comes with more power and efficiency -- even if it means we'll hit a few snags along the way.
@@jax1079 check the forums. Toyota has had unprecedented multi engine replacements before 35k miles across several owner experiences already
@@IThinkNowListenUp Statistics. "Several" out of tens of thousands is a fraction of 1%, which means 99.9999% have NOT had such failures.
Though the problem may seem small in terms of percentage, it signals a significant cultural shift within the organization. Historically, such issues were less common in their productions, indicating a now relaxed approach to quality. The prevalence of this issue likely exceeds 1 percent, as evidenced by multiple RUclipsrs who have documented it on camera. If this issue were as rare as suggested, capturing it on film would be improbable. This trend is concerning, and consumers should remain vigilant.
It's empowering that we, as consumers, can act as alarmists now-potentially affecting sales and voting with our dollars. This gives us the opportunity to send a clear message to the company's leadership about our desire for quality, urging them to make necessary corrections. The real danger lies in consumer inaction and a lack of awareness, which would allow such issues to persist unchallenged.
ruclips.net/video/wUe3DMXBx2E/видео.html
Innovation and iterative improvements are beneficial. However, rushing to phase out proven technologies due to government mandates-without allowing alternative technologies to meet the quality standards of their predecessors-is problematic.
Consumers might be inclined to blame the government rather than companies like Toyota for these shifts. Some might prefer to wait on the sidelines, letting early adopters navigate the challenges and growing pains associated with the widespread adoption of new standards like turbo technology, if these are indeed mandated by the government.
I for one will be cautious and won't be an early adopter as my consumer use case is atypical compared to the consumer who gets a new car every 3 years.
I agree with you. The Toyota turbo on the tundra been out there since 2017 on the LS . So I trust Toyota engines are doing the right things and good job.
Thanks!
Excellent 👍 discussion! Your totally correct. I'm not the least bit concerned about the reliability of a turbo from Toyota. The other thing to think about with this hybrid system that people forget about is electric is linear. Let me say that again electric is linear! For the people that don't understand that it's 100% instant response The second you step on the pedal. Lol that 465 ft lb is going to be a beast it's going to accelerate incredibly well with very little accelerator pedal. And who better than Toyota to do hybrid they've only been doing it since what 1997? They pretty much wrote the book on hybrid. Thank you You're right 👍
Thanks for watching! 🙏🏻
@@jax1079 Your welcome 👍
The only concern reliability wise is not of the motor but the turbo itself unless the turbo itself has radically changed in design somehow, it is a ball bearing part that will break. But this is not the main issue for me. Its the time/labor 10 years, 150-200k miles from now that will be needed to get that turbo replaced. Dont know about the 2.4 but on the 3.5 thats a cab off job which is very expensive especially in 10 years with any rust or age related issues. I truly hope the turbo itself is well made. I will miss v8 sound though but truly hope these turbos are well made (the turbo itself). I think the mpg and power speak for themself and agree with your video.
BTW no real data can be found of turbo failures on either the v35 or t24. Let's just hope we don't see any. I think the biggest factor will be the owner and maintenance and really caring for that turbo.
This is true, and only time will tell. I think calls for reliability issues are premature, and we need to wait until we have long term data
The engine is juice up keep v6 uses regular gas.
???
That 6 cylinder Turbo engine that Toyota says is new is not new they been using it since 2017 in the LS 500 !!! This engine is indestructible!!!!
Thanks for the reference!
And Lexus have had issues with this engine 😂😂😂😂 know your facts there ace.
@@gearmonkey5904 you keep believing that!!! You learn the facts Lexus and Toyota for life!!!
@@orlandovelastegui1391 listen up Orlando you are too stupid for me to respond to.
So what we hear tacoma turbo troubles and poor real-life MPG according to your opinion are all fake or illusion…right? How about Tundra due to so many problems including Turbo the sales is upside down now.
Not at all. Follow the data instead of hyperbole and click bait videos. While there have been some known problems with the new twin turbo V6 in the Tundra and some issues with the new Tacoma, they are few and far between affecting a tiny percentage of vehicles sold. The ones that have been affected have been covered under warranty. Recently GM issued a service bulletin for Silverado roofs failing. Ford has issues. Ram has issues. You can't compare a long serving relatively simple V8 to the first gen of an all new powertrain and expect the new powertrain to perform flawlessly. It takes iterative improvement to get to that level.
@@jax1079ok You like to talk to with numbers. Tundra sale is upside down now. Toyota tried hybrid turbo but in real life driving, it is not achieving what is promised. People carry lot more things with Truck. Turbo gives peak torque and HP at high RPM. Turbo eat fuel crazy at high RPM. So the V6 Tacoma or V8 Tundra is better low RPM torque. That is why Toyota just announced diesel Tundra next year😂 4banger turbo is a joke. Turbo diesel may be better.
@@c7406-q8c I like to talk numbers based on reality and experience. I've driven both the Toyota Tundra and Toyota Tacoma on road and off-road. Peak torque comes in down low, fuel economy is decent considering power gains, and the hybrid versions give instant torque thanks to the electric motor. People need to stop listening to fools talking out their butts with zero real world experience.
@@jax1079Ok you won. Take all the turbo trucks and pay 20k more for Turbo than V6 or V8. It used more parts and high tech to give you more power. Where are you going to use all the power for? Even you got a Lamborghini how fast can you drive on the road we are living? Will the turbo make you arrive early for work? and It will cost thousands more for even changing spark plugs later due to more parts on top of engine it needs to be removed prior to do something else. 😂 more labor more cost. It gives everyone motivation to work hard for turbo.
Sometimes when you speak you're actually telling people in the know how little you actually really know,....FWIW.
And not posting anything of substance or value is supposed to make us all believe you're in the know? Maybe you should take your own advice... FWIW.
I am happy with new 2024 rav4 xle awd 8 speed with 2.5l nonturbo. It's mistake not have 2.0-3.0l 4 cylinder for cars and compact suv , v6 for pickups and full mid size suv as options..no need make all turbo 1.5l to equate to 2.0l.
Toyota tested the waters with the 2.0T 8AR-FTS. The engine has been flawless the D4S practically solves all the issues inherent in GTDI. The 2.4T is just an iteration of the 2.0T and Toyota presumably solved all the shortcomings, none of which are reliably, with the new 2.4t.
The 8ar-fts is so good that people are tuning it and even with a tune you can read on forums they haven’t had any serious Issue.Some now with 200k miles already. And the mayority on the 80 to 100k miles
@@Justmemy12 I have no doubt the T24A-FTS will be the same.
I just wanna know why Toyota didn’t just turbo the 4.0 V6. We know that engine is reliable. Just give it a lil boost. 🤷🏽♂️
Turbo pffft the turbo unpredictable power delivery for off-road use, not to mention the hybrid doesn’t sound reliable for water crossings apparently they don’t sit that high up all bad news it still won’t be as reliable with all that
Took you 10 minutes and 20 seconds....the V8 sounds cooler. I'm actually in this boat right now and I'm struggling with everything you outline. My last truck was a 2007 Tundra (the first year of the new big Tundra) - zero issues in the 100k miles I drove it. Still mentally struggling with what the unknown (but should be great) durability of the hybrid unit will look like.
Haha! Yeah, we all love good vroom vroom noises. I’m with you. Big V8s tend to be reliable, and Toyota’s were some of the best. We’re about ready to replace the old Suburban (speaking of reliable V8s), and the LC and GX are top contenders. Only way to test long term reliability is to put my money where my mouth is 😂
You don’t address the main quest and I don’t care about the max. Will the standard up turbo go 250k?!! Simple question. Answer us. Thanks
Watch my chat with the chief engineer and powertrain engineer for the Toyota Tacoma. They tested the iForce engines against the commercial vehicle duty cycle which is far more rigorous than the consumer cycle. We won’t know for sure until 2026 or so when iForce vehicles have been on the road for a few years.
I think you do not know that all turbos are only lasting 60.000 km and being recalled , is a mistake
I dont understand why they didnt just use this engine in the corolla gr...would have been easier to hit 300hp with less boost
The application of torque and engine tuning is completely different.
Character and soul… The ability to simply turn on the ignition and immediately feel a certain type of way. My comments mainly speak to the 4.6 and not the V6. I’m your age but am having a very hard time with accepting this change. Why not a hybrid v8??? Especially for the sports cars and larger SUVs…
I’d guess because it’s unnecessary considering the hybrid torque fills in the initial gap at lower rpm while the turbos spool up and the blown engine makes more power more efficiently. I think the iForce Max is a good example of this. I’ve driven that engine back to back with GM small blocks (I’m a bit of a GM fanboy and BIG Corvette guy), and there’s no comparison. The 583 lb/ft from the iForce Max dusts the 6.2 in the GMC and gives better immediate torque off road thanks to the electric motor. Absolutely feels like a step forward.
Why would a manufacturer choose a larger heavier engine with worse performance?
Yeah the V6 hybrid option in the Tundras and Sequioas is already a BEAST in terms of power and torque. There isn't a good reason to make a V8 Hybrid TBH @@jax1079
Why would they replace a V6 with a V8?
I have only ever owned cars with turbos. They’re awesome. But damn. You will NEVER get rid of boost leaks and oil leaks and tuning issues with boosted cars.
It’s just an inherent problem with these platforms. Even the most reliable turbo engines, have issues. It’s a fan that spins from 20,000-150,000 RPM and forces hot air into a bunch of pipes into your engine. Of course it’s gonna be more problematic than an engine that lets air kinda trickle in naturally.
Toyotas have always been known to leak though. Cam towers on the 5.7. Valley plate leaks. Timing cover leaks on tons of v6 engines
Not a big fan of turbo, deal breaker for me, noisy, delay and less reliable.
Turbo causes damages to the engine and drive shafts.
I would say HELL YES. In fact. Toyotas and Lexuses switching to turbos V6 and four cylinder turbo hybrid. A massively intolerant. The reliability is going down. And expensive to buy and maintenance. And sensitivities with Toyota and Lexus so pure scary. Not the old one can fix it yourself and more reliable and less money than newer one. I will never EVER buy a New Toyota and Lexus especially with SUVs Land Cruiser 300 series and Lexus LX600 just paying over a 110 grand dollars. If anyone said you’re buying more for quality. I will say the quality is garbage. Not the old one quality and indestructible quality engine and body and chassis. The new one is a BAD idea. Thank you for a review
But… what data supports this? Toyota has only recently made the switch, and Toyota has the best track record of any manufacturer when it comes to hybrids and reliability. Alternatively, what would you get instead when ALL major brands are turning to smaller displacement turbocharged engines, especially luxury brands such as Mercedes and BMW. It seems that as the market moves in that direction I’d rather bet on Toyota’s reputation for quality than anyone else’s.
A lot of people are saying a twin turbo will require much more maintenance.. what kind of maintenance are we talking about here?
It depends. If a vehicle is reliable over time yet requires several thousand dollars of maintenance at some point in the future, is that worse than a vehicle that has constant problems during the ownership experience?
According to the logic presented in the video, "innovative" and "new" products should readily replace older ones. However, this perspective seems narrow, focusing only on torque and fuel efficiency while overlooking critical factors such as maintenance costs, repair costs, and longevity. If these latter aspects remained stable while other metrics improved, I would consider a turbocharged engine innovative. However, if improvements in one area come at the expense of another, this isn't innovation-it's merely a different design choice, essentially a lateral move. Consider a hypothetical scenario where the only choices are a Camry and a Tesla Model 3. If the government mandates that emissions must be near zero by 2025, and only the Tesla Model 3 meets this criterion, then, following the video's logic, no one should complain if the Model 3 becomes the sole option. This decision might seem justifiable because the Model 3 outperforms in every measured category and is deemed more innovative. Yet, this approach ignores numerous other variables that make such a drastic market limitation an unsuitable and potentially harmful decision. This is akin to the issue with phasing out naturally aspirated engines; it oversimplifies complex considerations.
And you're not taking into account that technology doesn't exist in a vacuum but essentially doubles in complexity and efficiency over a given period of time. While a turbocharged engine (or hybrid) is more complex than a straight gasoline powerplant, so too are the materials, manufacturing, and computing power more advanced. The iPhone that many people are watching and typing on in response to this video is exponentially more complex than a rotary dial phone, which you could argue might be more "reliable," but it opens up a world of possibility that was only theoretical when the very first iphone debuted. Imagine if we gave up on alternative powertrains now when we're only at the starting point... Where would we be?
The batteries didn’t die and the screens didn’t break on the rotary phones , and the 20R in my 1980 Celica was the best ,after that everything went downhill! ! !
Ok Boomer
I hope for the best, as of now il wait , time will tell😢😊
It’s all we can do…
Your like a pharmaceutical sales rep selling a new drug. Bads news after 5yrs at market.
Uh, ok...?
I think these manufacturers are making a positive move forward with turbo engines. They get great fuel efficiency, for the performance they deliver.
But for fucks sake. Toyota, don’t drop the 4.0 V6. Keep it around. Offer the boosted 4 cylinder.
If it’s anything like the Tundra engine , beware
Most car brand are greedy they don't want build car that last long. They don't make money on doing that. Most car are like iphones there reliable enough last couple year then need replacement
You think Toyota is just going to toss their decades long reputation for reliability out the window?
Toyota always made among the most reliable engines yet. My dad has an 02 Tundra with 215,000 miles, and I know someone who has one with 450,000 miles. If these turbo engines last that long, then I will consider them as good. However, if they don’t last, I will not consider them good engines.
Maybe, but keep in mind that Toyota’s reliability is many times higher than the norm. If these engines go over 200k, that’s still quite impressive.
Ask the 1GR and 2GR tacos how FI worked out for them. I’m on my 3rd 1GR engine on my boosted taco…. But I’m a Toyota fanboy.
And what’s the most common failure point? Something easy to replace or fortify or something more serious?
Usually ring lands and head gaskets, leading to compression failure/engine failure. These newer blocks are aluminum and no longer cast iron like the old JZs that could handle high boost (albeit at high RPM). However Toyota makes some serious bottom ends that are rock solid, these are some durable crank shafts. Don’t get me wrong, these are pretty stout engines that can last 200k+ stock but I hope next gen Toyota engines do a better job at tolerating higher compression/boost. You’ll find lots of examples of engine failure on Tacoma World thread specific to 1GR superchargers. Regardless, I’m patiently waiting on these new models to come out. Once you go boost, it’s pretty hard to go back😂
@@Hp31242The cast iron versus aluminum argument has been over for a long time. Yes cast iron was legendary in the 2jz which allowed it to reach 1,000+HP easily, but it was a heavy beast. Aluminum offers lower weight, easier repairability factors, etc. Besides these new Tacoma won't be pushing as much boost as a heavily built 2jz. I'm more upset that Toyota isn't going hybrid or electric on the Tacoma and rather taking this turbo step which will soon be outdated in the next 10-15 years.
I love my 2022 lx600, it is the best thing that has ever happened to me
Nice!!
This video didn’t age well. Comparing old cast iron block all metal turbo engines or racing applications to all aluminum plastic fantastic engines in the truck market, where reliability is king, is not the best argument.
If these new turbo engines are so reliable, then let Toyota offer a lifetime engine & turbo warranty. Oh wait, we all see the Tundras failing in under 20k miles.
People seem to forget that Toyota has been in the turbo game for a long time, even in their trucks and suvs across the sea. Granted it's on a diesel platform, but forced induction none the less. EVERY manufacturer is going to have issues on the first model year on a brand new platform, but it's Toyota's ability to adapt and make those small changes that aids in their reliability in the long term.
This is true. They’ve been adding turbos for years, and even when there is a problem, such as with the first run of Tundra engines, they issue a fix immediately (and ditch the supplier in favor of a new one).
Turbos in general are more fussy and unreliable. I know Toyota fanboys like to make excuses but either way ICE is dead. So moot point anyway.
@@GrandHuevotes Lots of new tech was fussier than the tech it replaced. Fuel injection is more complicated than carburetors, for example, and direct injection takes that a step further. All had notable problems early on.
@@GrandHuevotesthe 1jz and 2jz would like a word with u on turbo engines being unreliable. But anyway, I'd say it comes down to how they're built tbh. May not be in America but engines like the 4.0L Barra from Ford are known to be reliable and last over 400k miles without issue. I'd say just give it time to work out its issues and it'll be better down the line.
Diesel make a massive difference. Those turbo are reliable, these are not.
....but JAX, how do you REALLY feel about it 🤣
Haha! I’m a man of many opinions…
For light cars no problem but for suvs and pickup trucks, it a problem.
Load bearing small engines will not last as long. That's just a fact. These new vehicles cost way too much for these questionable engine setups. I for one have been a Toyota loyalist having purchased 7 Toyotas in the past but this new lineup of engine offerings has thrown up too many yellow caution flags in my assessment. Mark my words, people will regret these new hybrid/turbo/small engines when their warranty has expired.
A service departments
wet dream.
Btw, you are well overdue for a diaper change.
Your over reaction is a bad sign. Everybody knows the main bearings are going out
It's hardly an overreaction, just a different perspective. I think some people think we might be biased Toyota fans, and that's not the case. Personally, if I bought a full sized truck right now, I'd get the GMC AT4x, and if I bought a midsize truck, it would be the Chevy Colorado ZR2.
Good points but as an engineer it is proven that the simpler a design is typically more reliable. So only time will tell. I tend to gravitate to simpler designs. Cars are unnecessarily way too complicated today. I’m an aviation mechanic as well and Pratt and Whitney said the F-35 engine would never fail. This was proven horribly incorrect. The Boeing 737 Max was supposed to be a revolutionary upgrade to the 737. Lets count the dead bodies. Engineers screw up all the time and Toyota is probably best suited to be the leader in these turbo engines. The engine will probably be fine but what about the turbos? We have lots of thermal cycling, oil being exposed to extreme temps and then people just shutting the engine off and the oil cooking in the turbo. Physics is physics and we have to do NDI of turbines blades all the time. They are made of titanium and fail unexpectedly a lot. More frequent oil changes are a good idea. Repair cost will be higher without question. So do you think it you put a 2024 and a 2023 Tacoma on reliability endurance test and drove 100k in 6 months that the 2024 would be more reliable? Look at the disaster with the new Tundra? Electronic waste gates failures. But wait they’re Toyota engineers. They have seemed to fix this problem but I went tot a dealer and ask the service rep which car had the most issues. He said hands down the Tundra. The 2024’ Tacomas will have problems just how bad. That old rotary phone will outlast and iPhone. My old washing machine lasted 18 years my second digital LG machine lasted 5. My old hot water heater lasted 20 years the second one 3. My old school foam padded wired headphones I bought in college still work, I’m on my 4th set of airpods. I wish i never sold my 1988 4x4 Toyota truck with the 22RE engine. Now i have to get all this BS on a truck like screen and electric crap. That was the best engine ever!
Thanks so much for the reasonable response. I would tend to agree. I’m under no delusions that Toyota’s reputation for reliability may become “relative” when compared to other brands while not quite achieving the insane longevity of past models. Ultimately, though, if I’m going to roll the dice on a brand incorporating hybrid tech, forced induction, and future EV powertrains into mass market vehicles with the expectation I’m going to own it for a long time, I’ll put my money on Toyota all day every day. While I agree with your general sentiment, I think some of what appears to be planned obsolescence on the surface ends up being the unsustainable complexity of our modern world and the lifestyles we demand. My parents still have the same fridge and air con unit in the house I grew up in (I’m 44), but we’ve gone through three fridges in the twenty years we’ve been married. The demand to deliver more complex products (from fridges to jumbo jets) at an increasingly lower cost is not a recipe for long term durability, and like current vehicle pricing, we really only have ourselves to blame for it. Thanks again for the excellent response!
toyota should’ve offered 2 engine choices and slowly ease the buyers to the new epa reality.
In hindsight, that might have been a good idea
You dated yourself long before the rotary telephone segment, you made myself feel old with the Twister reference because I understood it. DOROTHY!!!!!!
Hahaha! I figured some people would catch that reference and be like, “wait.. how old is this dude?!” 😂
@@jax1079 Haha, I loved that movie as a kid, I've probably watched it 20 times.
Great video with valid points by the way. I currently own a 2023 Tacoma TRD OR 4X4, and a previous owner of many other Toyotas. I'm curious to see how the next gen of Toyota and Lexus fairs. I'm really liking the new Land Cruiser so far, may find myself in one in the future.
Stressed out 4 cylinders and turbos
I have lc300 vxr full option twin turbo for one year and half looks fine and great engine (our guarantee 5 years for everything in Kuwait)
Turbo engines have to be treated delicately when they’re cold and prior to being shut off.
Turbo engines consume oil.
Turbo engines won’t last as long because of the high pressures in the cylinders.
I'm sure the Toyota engineers have considered none of those things....
I was replying to his question in the video….did you miss that?
EPA CAFE Standard putting the squeeze. Bye bye V8, bye bye V6 on land cruisers & tacoma 😢 😭😭😭
Tech progresses in several ways: sometimes through innovation, sometimes through necessity, sometimes through regulation. Different doesn’t mean worse, especially when you’re getting more power from lighter more fuel efficient engines. That’s progress.
Towing capacity and gas tank has been reduced and now requires premium fuel and mpg is diminish rapidly between 70-75 mph when turbos kick in and sooner when towing. Toyota has made this way too complex and very expensive to repair. Long term reliability is in question too. You mentioned the 1JZ & 2JZ engines from the 1990s, that was an entirely different Toyota. Nope I’m not buying the sales pitch.
Turbo engines wear out fast and when they break it will cost a lot of money 💰 💲💲💲💲💲💲💲💲💲💲
Maybe, but only time will tell
I get your point of reliability from a performance car aspec. Yeah, 2JZ was bullet proof for reasons such as its block was made from iron. 😉. Just like the 2UZFE. But you are talkong about a tiny 4 banger with an aluminum block and a "NON" ball bearing turbo but bearing journals (you know the brass round fittings which oil is only fed through?).... yeah. Those dont last as long and yes, turbo replacements are a thing of the near future all the time with these new 2.4T engines.... something i dont want to deal with and the costs of labor alone. If people read up on the forums, you find folks saying the smoothness of the engines dissappear within 10,000 miles.... i cant imagine what will happen when they hit the 50,000 mark. They are also having issues with the type of gas. Toyota claims you can put 87 octane but read some folks have been doing it and they already need a turbo replacement at 9,000 miles because thats all they have been using. Thats crazy!
I like the peace of mind with my V8 4runner that if I am out in middle of nowhere on a camping trip and thr gas sation only sales 87 (no premium in some spots out there) and yet my 2UZFE can still purr like the day it rolled off the assembly line.
Im still going to keep my eyes peeled on these 2.4T cause yeah, i love the look of the new 4runner but still on the fence about its long term reliability with its powertrain. ✌
I think this is a very reasonable response. At the end of the day, a wait and see approach will be the only right answer because the numbers and data will tell the story, both to the consumers and to Toyota.
Some people do not realize in the Philippines the Hilux is 2.5 liter turbo diesel and it's been that way for years.. along with Nissan Narvada and Ford Ranger...😂😂😂.. turbo is good
Great point
@@jax1079 Not a great point. None of these turbo diesel engines are made to meet US CAFE and emissions standards. The pistons, cranks, rings, bearings, rods all that make up an engine are much thicker, beefier and as a result much heavier on a turbo diesel than on a gasoline engine. However all that weight means it can't rev as high, limiting its hp even though it produces enormous torque. The heavier and beefier your internal moving parts of an engine is, the more energy it takes to move them --- yeah basic physics --- and this means less fuel economy. To meet government fuel regulations, modern engines have very light parts in addition to loose piston rings, to reduce moving mass and internal friction as much as possible. And this runs counter to the demands of a properly long term reliable turbo engine. The primary mission of the engine designer is to meet these government regulations first, then corporate profits second, then customer third. You can't compare a 2JZ engine from the 90s where internal parts are beefier and heavier versus modern engines where internal components are lighter and thinner. Already you can see this difference of beefier parts between the older Honda K20/24 engines versus the turbo L15B. engines.
Tundra already has wastegate issues...the Lexus turbo 4 variant already has injector issues...so what is going to happen post warranty? And here in the North American market, unfortunately Toyota hasn't built enough equity in the forced induction game to expect customers to blindingly jump into this, especially in this economy, especially when cars cost the most it has ever did. When my generation hears turbo, we think of crap VW and BMWs. Even with Toyota engineering turbod cars, the doubts exists. Place the JZ i into TUNDRA and there will be zero complaints! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN...
Toyota needs to give up these overly complicated engines and focus on EVs as they are already lagging behind...
The waste gate issues were supplier driven, so Toyota essentially fired the supplier and found a new one with Toyota levels of quality control. If you look at that, the projected numbers are a fraction of total Tundras sold. Toyota’s solution to be overly cautious and recall affected vehicles to retrofit them (or fix them) gets perceived as large scale problems when in reality it’s the opposite: it’s Toyota ensuring the fewest number of people are impacted by the issue. Proportionally Toyota still tends to be the most reliable brand, especially when paired with Lexus. I’m an EV fan, but I also like plug in hybrids, which Toyota and Lexus are rightly pushing. They’re a great stop gap.
Other than the 4 cylinder noise, all is ok.
Been an issue with Toyota 4 bangers for a long time 😂
Most Car companys rather have you come each 10 years or less too purchase a new car instead of building a car that will last a life time. Theres a incentive to do so
What's the incentive to build a reliable car?
Yeah. Blah blah blah.Toyota would not go down this road if the EPA was't calling the shots.
Turbo engine, warm it up and cool it down, like when you working out🤫
Ya I dont know??.......something that spins 100,000-300,000 rotations every minute you are driving and reliablity dont really belong in the same sentence do they? I was seriously thinking about ordering one of these until I found out they have a turbo.
New tech always complicates old tech on the path to improvement. Think fuel injection, hybrid powertrains, or now EVs. Massive performance gains but all started with problems to overcome.
the car nut guy (Toyota Master Mechanic) has a good RUclips video out on the Toyota 2.4 turbos and explains the unique design that Toyota has which mitigates a lot of the problems with Turbos including heat and constant spinning....
@@toddolson7273Toyota also majorly upgraded the one that's going in the trucks. 50% of the parts including the block itself is more durable.
Car Care Nut > JAX Automotive
I mean, obviously…
Yes, they're a bad idea. Toyota should have retained their naturally aspirated 5.7 liter V-8s and 3.5 V-6s.
The real world gas mileage is not much better with the twin turbo V6 / 10 speed than a 5.7 with a 6 speed. More things to go wrong. I don't think the new ones will easily deliver 200k+ miles like the older motors.
But this kind of proves my point: factually, that’s just incorrect. The 5.7 swilled gas like nobody’s business, and the iForce (especially iForce Max) is significantly more efficient in real world usage while making tons more power. (The base iForce is more powerful than the 5.7.) And surmising that the new engines probably won’t be as reliable just because you don’t think they will be (based on no evidence) isn’t really an accurate or relevant metric. Only time will prove that out.
You should ride a bike, less things to go wrong. Much more fuel efficient
This guy sounds like a Toyota fanboy... Lets start with the most important issue at hand. v4s are not worth $55K+ hello Tacoma. How much will Toyota ask for the 4Runner V4? $60K+ 😅
Anyone who repeatedly says V4 doesn't get to sit at the adult table...