Nah, those instruments are still completely functional and historically significant Most modern saxophones probably haven't even changed much when compared to horns from the 60s
if it was one tone and a half above i prefer to name for example "b" as a "d" to read sheet music or partiture if prefer so. my alto is a rampone milano 1919 so difficult to sound but a powerful sound that neighbours hate me so much *~* thanks for the video!!! Eveline from Sao Paulo biggest Brazilian town
Appreciate your efforts in explaining the old and the new. I would hate to see anyone pick up my saxophone the way you did. I have a Pan Am Conn 1952 Alto. It is silver plated but much of the silver has rubbed off after passing through many users over decades of use. The entire unit is still very good and solid.
If like to know if there's a noticable sound difference. 1936 Selmer Paris SBA vs a 2021 Ref36.... In a blind listening test 2 September m experienced sax players vs 2 who can't play or read music...
A lot of what you said is true. Your definition of vintage is...interesting. You have this nebulous and arbitrary cutoff of the 1930s-40s for the end of the vintage era (WW2 or something?). That's very simplistic, and frankly leaves out a ton of saxophone history, such as Martins until the 1970s (left side bell keys and soft-soldered tone holes), Buffet Super Dynaction (inline stacks), King Super 20 (ridiculously complex and complicated pinky cluster mechanism and octave mechanism), SML Revision D (neck tenon design), etc. All of these horns were made after the period that you outlined, and they all have design choices or quirks that are either of an older style, perhaps even a "vintage" style, or choices that were experimental that were abandoned for better or more cost-effective reasons in later years. Looking at vintage vs. modern as an all or nothing proposition is a bizarre exercise, because it ends up leaving everyone misinformed on some level because of how constricted that viewpoint is.
I have an interesting collection of vintage horns. Listing them -redundent to say the least. I have small bore, big bore, 1919, 1952. They play similar, my favorites are keys off rebuilds and kangaroo pads.
greetings sir is it harder to play? I'm planning on moving from a modern to a vintage one, (I adore them) but I'm concerned of it being a sort of a handicap thanks for your time
Ron Hendon , no but I will correct it to voll-true. And my 60s tenor is a king zepher.. years ago I had a buescher tenor that was an aristocrat (pre selmer buy out)I love the vintage horns their quality and sound. Selmer was never in my budget range.
Thanks I have a Conn 6m alto a Martin handcarft alto and a stencil saying Super Dearman alto all 1930s. Dearman is a name a London shop was putting on the saxes before the War most where made in Paris and Germany I think this is made by Kielwerth. The Conn is by far the best sounding and easy to play all are from my family who all played in big bands and smaller jazz bands in Belfast Ireland where we live.I also have an Adolf Sax alto from around 1908 it needs some work its never played from I got it. I have it 20 years I must get it working one day :-)
Jason Wolf As a intermediate sax player, I have played for a long time and to help u out, I found that every sax I've played has had something different to it, talking of tone and clarity. I play a 1950 Conn Ladyface tenor sax and I also own a 1970 Conn-Selmer shooting star but I prefer my tenor. Many sax players own multiple depending on how u wanna play. U may have a sax u love best for jazz, or studio play, etc.
In the early 90s I was traveling around and I didn't have my instrument (Mark VI tenor) with me and I was loaned a 20s Buescher alto. It had a good, clear sound, but the keywork was bad and it would have been hard to play jazz at medium or fast tempos on it. I didn't enjoy playing it. Dexter Gordon's early Blue Note recordings were made on a Conn 12M (tenor) and sound great. I don't like the left little finger keys on those; the Selmer design (now used by everybody) is better. My first soprano, a Selmer Mark VI, (bought at Selmer's in Paris in 1972) had the old-style left little finger keys, but it wasn't a problem. I now have a "Serie II" Selmer soprano, and it has the same little finger keys as on the alto and tenor. They look bulky and clumsy and there was no need to change from the Mark VI design. If you get a Mark VI soprano, make sure that it has the top F# key, because it doesn't have a front F key. My tenor does not have a top F# key, but that note is easily obtained by pressing the front F and the side Bb key (right hand).
greetings sir, i would be really grateful if you could expand or explain the keywork, I'm looking to buy a truetone buescher but now that I've seen your comment I'm a little bit concerned if this helps, I've been playing for a year a school loaned modern alto saxophone, unfortunately I haven't been able to play a vintage one but I adore them I wouldn't mind if it took even some months to get used to a sax like that, but I don't know if I will be handicapped in some way by playing on one, until I can get my hands on one beautiful mark VI ❤️ thanks for your time sir
I owned a shooting star sax for 5 years and I don't recommend. They are way different and have a not as good tone quality. They're also very cheap. The only benefit to them is they are made of decent brass. The low notes on them are next to terrible, however.
No. At least not in the same category as the true vintage instruments. By 1967, Buescher was essentially the student line for Selmer USA - what would become Bundy. So, essentially, you have a student model horn.
No, the plating will have so little effect that it will be unnoticeable to the human ear. It will affect the tactile feel of the horn though and the wear of the finish.
It is possible to discern the difference, but that depends on thickness and type of coating/plating. Sometimes (a thicker) coating/plating may improve the tone and the intonation, tame buzz and shrill, especially with cheaper to mediocre horns made of lesser materials, make a horn more suitable for the classical music rather than for jazz, pop, etc. Nevertheless, on the same instrument, the neck, the mouthpiece, the reed type, and the embouchure define the bulk of the tone, and there lie endless possibilities. The saxophone is a very versatile instrument, capable of incredible range of expressions. Listen to very excellent saxophone players, like Eugene Rousseau; they can make modern saxophones sound like a clarinet, oboe, bassoon, or whatever else you like.
Yes...Buescher is pronounced like Bisher. That's the correct pronunciation and if you look at old advertisements it even stated that on some old sales literature. If you look at youtuber/sax repairman Matt Stohrer he has some videos showing that. ...ruclips.net/video/6BKInPECCyQ/видео.html
www.stohrermusic.com/2014/09/how-to-say-buescher/ I was going to call you out on 'Bisher' as did Mezzofanti but it appears you are as correct as anyone! Of course, the German would have been Büscher (sort of Boo(e)scher.
Yeah, I remember an early bassoon lesson of mine where my teacher told me about Buescher saxes and made sure that I pronounced it "Bisher." That memory didn't resurface until I started having to say the name again with any regularity.
I think the cutoff for vintage should be 1960 or 1965. Pre 1925 would be more antique.
Nah, those instruments are still completely functional and historically significant
Most modern saxophones probably haven't even changed much when compared to horns from the 60s
if it was one tone and a half above i prefer to name for example "b" as a "d" to read sheet music or partiture if prefer so. my alto is a rampone milano 1919 so difficult to sound but a powerful sound that neighbours hate me so much *~* thanks for the video!!! Eveline from Sao Paulo biggest Brazilian town
Very interesting to this slow technical evolution. Would have loved to hear how they sound. 🎷👍
Appreciate your efforts in explaining the old and the new. I would hate to see anyone pick up my saxophone the way you did. I have a Pan Am Conn 1952 Alto. It is silver plated but much of the silver has rubbed off after passing through many users over decades of use. The entire unit is still very good and solid.
you really should had gotten two altos to compare
You mean like in the newest video I've uploaded?
If like to know if there's a noticable sound difference. 1936 Selmer Paris SBA vs a 2021 Ref36.... In a blind listening test 2 September m experienced sax players vs 2 who can't play or read music...
A lot of what you said is true. Your definition of vintage is...interesting. You have this nebulous and arbitrary cutoff of the 1930s-40s for the end of the vintage era (WW2 or something?). That's very simplistic, and frankly leaves out a ton of saxophone history, such as Martins until the 1970s (left side bell keys and soft-soldered tone holes), Buffet Super Dynaction (inline stacks), King Super 20 (ridiculously complex and complicated pinky cluster mechanism and octave mechanism), SML Revision D (neck tenon design), etc.
All of these horns were made after the period that you outlined, and they all have design choices or quirks that are either of an older style, perhaps even a "vintage" style, or choices that were experimental that were abandoned for better or more cost-effective reasons in later years. Looking at vintage vs. modern as an all or nothing proposition is a bizarre exercise, because it ends up leaving everyone misinformed on some level because of how constricted that viewpoint is.
I have an interesting collection of vintage horns. Listing them -redundent to say the least. I have small bore, big bore, 1919, 1952. They play similar, my favorites are keys off rebuilds and kangaroo pads.
I got an old Bundy and both the B flat and B natural keys are on the left side instead of the right.
That'd be a late Buescher instrument that Selmer stamped with Bundy. Those will be pre "official" Bundy instruments (the Bundy II).
I have a Conn New Wonder series I (1919). Harder to play, but sounds better then the new ones.
greetings sir
is it harder to play? I'm planning on moving from a modern to a vintage one, (I adore them) but I'm concerned of it being a sort of a handicap
thanks for your time
I have a king tru-tone from 1921 that’s mint. I love that horn.
SoAR’s Broken Chains did you mean a Buescher True-Tone ?
Ron Hendon , no but I will correct it to voll-true. And my 60s tenor is a king zepher.. years ago I had a buescher tenor that was an aristocrat (pre selmer buy out)I love the vintage horns their quality and sound. Selmer was never in my budget range.
Thanks I have a Conn 6m alto a Martin handcarft alto and a stencil saying Super Dearman alto all 1930s.
Dearman is a name a London shop was putting on the saxes before the War most where made in Paris and Germany
I think this is made by Kielwerth. The Conn is by far the best sounding and easy to play all are from my family
who all played in big bands and smaller jazz bands in Belfast Ireland where we live.I also have an Adolf Sax alto from around
1908 it needs some work its never played from I got it. I have it 20 years I must get it working one day :-)
I used to have a 1922 Conn Alto. It was a fantastic instrument, but I like the Buescher even more.
Jason Wolf As a intermediate sax player, I have played for a long time and to help u out, I found that every sax I've played has had something different to it, talking of tone and clarity. I play a 1950 Conn Ladyface tenor sax and I also own a 1970 Conn-Selmer shooting star but I prefer my tenor. Many sax players own multiple depending on how u wanna play. U may have a sax u love best for jazz, or studio play, etc.
You *really* should have done a sound comparison!!!
In the early 90s I was traveling around and I didn't have my instrument (Mark VI tenor) with me and I was loaned a 20s Buescher alto. It had a good, clear sound, but the keywork was bad and it would have been hard to play jazz at medium or fast tempos on it. I didn't enjoy playing it.
Dexter Gordon's early Blue Note recordings were made on a Conn 12M (tenor) and sound great. I don't like the left little finger keys on those; the Selmer design (now used by everybody) is better.
My first soprano, a Selmer Mark VI, (bought at Selmer's in Paris in 1972) had the old-style left little finger keys, but it wasn't a problem. I now have a "Serie II" Selmer soprano, and it has the same little finger keys as on the alto and tenor. They look bulky and clumsy and there was no need to change from the Mark VI design. If you get a Mark VI soprano, make sure that it has the top F# key, because it doesn't have a front F key. My tenor does not have a top F# key, but that note is easily obtained by pressing the front F and the side Bb key (right hand).
greetings sir, i would be really grateful if you could expand or explain the keywork, I'm looking to buy a truetone buescher but now that I've seen your comment I'm a little bit concerned
if this helps, I've been playing for a year a school loaned modern alto saxophone, unfortunately I haven't been able to play a vintage one but I adore them
I wouldn't mind if it took even some months to get used to a sax like that, but I don't know if I will be handicapped in some way by playing on one, until I can get my hands on one beautiful mark VI ❤️
thanks for your time sir
In the video you mentioned Conn was a good brand to look at for vintages saxophones. I’ve seen Conn “Shooting Star” saxophones. Are those any good?
The Shooting Stars are their lower level student brand.
C.G. Conn the New Wonder II. The shooting star was a student horn not really vintage
I owned a shooting star sax for 5 years and I don't recommend. They are way different and have a not as good tone quality. They're also very cheap. The only benefit to them is they are made of decent brass. The low notes on them are next to terrible, however.
@@thomasyoung7615 hi sir, are buescher truetone altos good? I would be really grateful for a response
my definition of vintage is a little different anything without Selmer style keywork I consider Vintage
Omar Hussein
Have a c1960 Conn 16M "Shooting Star", no Selmer style keywork. Cherish it as if it were truly vintage!
Would ypu call a 1967 beuscher aristocrat alto sax vintage
No. At least not in the same category as the true vintage instruments. By 1967, Buescher was essentially the student line for Selmer USA - what would become Bundy. So, essentially, you have a student model horn.
Bandestration It is 51yrs old and will be vintage in a few years to my standards at least
Great vid. Thanks. Have a question: a 1960 Conn 16M tenor with old style keywork ("vintage style") cannot be considered truly vintage, right?
I wouldn't personally, but I'm sure that there are plenty who do.
Most see Vintage as 50 years or older.
Do the platings affect the sound?
No, the plating will have so little effect that it will be unnoticeable to the human ear. It will affect the tactile feel of the horn though and the wear of the finish.
It is possible to discern the difference, but that depends on thickness and type of coating/plating. Sometimes (a thicker) coating/plating may improve the tone and the intonation, tame buzz and shrill, especially with cheaper to mediocre horns made of lesser materials, make a horn more suitable for the classical music rather than for jazz, pop, etc. Nevertheless, on the same instrument, the neck, the mouthpiece, the reed type, and the embouchure define the bulk of the tone, and there lie endless possibilities. The saxophone is a very versatile instrument, capable of incredible range of expressions. Listen to very excellent saxophone players, like Eugene Rousseau; they can make modern saxophones sound like a clarinet, oboe, bassoon, or whatever else you like.
Bisher?
Buescher pronounced "bisher"
Yes...Buescher is pronounced like Bisher. That's the correct pronunciation and if you look at old advertisements it even stated that on some old sales literature. If you look at youtuber/sax repairman Matt Stohrer he has some videos showing that. ...ruclips.net/video/6BKInPECCyQ/видео.html
www.stohrermusic.com/2014/09/how-to-say-buescher/ I was going to call you out on 'Bisher' as did Mezzofanti but it appears you are as correct as anyone! Of course, the German would have been Büscher (sort of Boo(e)scher.
Yeah, I remember an early bassoon lesson of mine where my teacher told me about Buescher saxes and made sure that I pronounced it "Bisher." That memory didn't resurface until I started having to say the name again with any regularity.
I know you didn’t just speak for 14 minutes without playing....
He's more of a knowledge guy than a player.
Can I have your buescher Alto
But that would leave me without an Alto.
It's not silver.. it's nickel
Thanks.
Really wish you said buescher correctly
I pronounce it the absolute correct way. Bish-er.
Yeah he said it correctly
Not quite accurate.