LOW BUCK BBC IRON HEAD TEST
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- STOCK 088 BBC REC-PORT IORN HEADS VS SUMMIT IRON HEADS! LET'S TALK ABOUT THE DYNO RESULTS WHEN I TESTED A SET OF 088 BBC REC-PORT IORN HEAD AGAINST A SET OF SUMMIT RACING (PT152125) IRON BBC HEADS. I PROVIDED HEAD SPECS, AIRLFOW AND POWER GAINS WHEN TESTED ON A 496 BBC STROKER. CAN IRON HEAD STILL MAKE POWER? OF COURSE THEY CAN!
RICHARD,,,,IM A POOR BOY ENGINE BUILDER.... I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU ON SUCH A GREAT JOB OF DOING RESERCHING THESE ENGINE PARTS AND COMBOS. AFTER WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS MY BRAIN IS GOING TOTALLY NUTS ,,,,I LOVE IT ,,,THANK YOU .
Glad to help
Iv had SEVERAL 366 tall deck engines they are cheap fun !! , The block is very strong, they have a special rod in them and the rods are super strong.. I have pulled them apart set the ring gaps and play with bearing clearance and slap them back together with a big solid cam and valve spring upgrade and on Day 400 horsepower fogger kit it seems like the magic number is always 30 passes.. I have never had one make it to 40 passes in the quarter mile and by 35 passes there smoking and rattling ready to come apart
I've used a 454 crankshaft and board them to 4 in and ran them in both blower and nitrous combinations , I have run them with a custom rods and small block forged pistons , 366 engines are extremely tough and they will make power on the cheap.. as hard as big block stuff is to come by nowadays I don't throw away anything and anyone that says 366 engines are just a boat anchor is either a open check book / unlimited funds person or not a true hot rodder
Thank You for Sharing! More education update since 1980! No more junk yard close chamber 396 350/360 hp heads...lol.
Richard I appreciate all the tests that you do and all the information you provide it's more help than you realize to a lot of people again thank you very much, I also love the Big block Chevrolet iron Head test and anything big block. Big block Chevrolet and big block Ford I hope will always be the mainstay of hot rodding even though it seems everyone has went LS and left a lot of the big block stuff behind them
As you just proved nothing is easier to make power with and cheaper than a big block Chevrolet with a big old fat camshaft and a decent cylinder head
Hey Richard, I really enjoy your videos. they are all very in depth, very technical and very informative. Thank you for you excellent contribution to the hotrod world. I enjoy watching all your videos! looking forward to eh Nova's arc / mudder nova , whatever it is named!!!
Its off subject but id like to see edelbrocks 100cc marine heads on a junk yard 454 and smallish 500" lift cam, that would be interesting. Favorite channel by the way.
Same here. I've got a Gen V 454 boat (23' cruiser) that had peanut ports. I installed Edelbrock 61459 heads, RPM Air Gap, and retrofitted a Comp Cams XM-270-HR with .510 lift. Really woke it up and would love to see a dyno graph. I don't have access to a dyno and sometimes wonder if the cam and intake is all I needed.
I would love to see that. I built a very mild 454 with a set of flattop pistons, a set of L29 heads, and the old GM 6209 cam. Its a wimp cam with .500 lift, 220@50, 115LSA. It has chinese mid length headers, and edelbrock performer, and 700cfm holley . Mostly its a bunch of parts I had thrown together.
@@RacerRickxx how does it do, any idea of hp/tq? What do you run it in?
@@danielormsby2201 Its going into 66' Pontiac Parisienne . I am hoping it makes around 375hp.
Thank you so much for doing these tests, the information you provide is very valuable.
When I built my big block i went with iron Merlins because they were only like $50 more per head, for a much better spec head, than what Summit’s in house head was going for. Now I’m admittedly not a BBC guy, this is my first and only big block build. But I do know engines in general and IMO the World Products heads I got are much better for my build than the Summits of about the same cost, and they make a great powerband with my Howard’s cam. It’s a 488 CID/4.250” crank. 10.5:1 static comp.
I ported a set of 3904390 and added 219 intakes, good springs, 1.8 rockers, 224 234 at .050, 560 585 lift on a 454, the mid range is assume. My goal was to build a daily driver. I think I maxed out as far as a build goes for a daily driver.
Can't say it enough, when you get around to doing more BBF stuff, like that 429, you GOTTA get ahold of Paul Kane(High Flow Dynamics), he's THE stock BBF block/head expert and could give you some direction(maybe some parts? Not to put words in anyone's mouth...) on dyno testing stock BBF stuff. He's made well over 1000HP with stock 2-bolt main blocks, and has even been involved with a couple stock block nitromethane applications, including a Land Speed Racing build.
Thanks again for another great video. Very informative and increased difficulty in deciding what heads and build up to do🤔 decisions decisions.
Jomar performance has big block intake spacers in both square port and oval port for very reasonable... I have had many tall deck 427 blocks with a 4.500 stroke crank and 0.125 over one of which I have used for over 10 years in a mud truck with a 1071 Hampton blower.. tall deck stuff was blessed excess for us poor guys especially years ago when all of these aftermarket blocks were not available on every corner
I never noticed that you're one of us cranking it up in Texas
Would LOVE to see some testing with Enginequest 320cc cast iron heads.
EQ heads are junk. And their customer service is a joke.
@@kennethpowers8995 Not to mention their heads are junk!!!
@@kennethpowers8995 The enginequest bbc 320's are flowing over 430cfm in the right hands. I myself wouldn't be so quick to call them junk.
@@rapidride2 exactly in the right hands. Not from EQ themselves. ANY BBC head in the right hands will flow big air lol
Also, peak flow numbers don’t mean anything FYI. Who cares what they flow @ .700+ lift, average flow is MUCH more critical to overall power production.
You can do a lot with OE iron heads if you have to. Just look at the truck pull heads Chad Speier does.
But I really wouldn't mind me some MBE BIG 9s. That'd be a really cool test
You can make over 600 Horsepower for the street with a set of Pocket ported Oval port heads With Stroked 454 to 496 Cid. !!!
Summit bbc iron heads are dart heads. Almost identical to dart iron eagles.
Do u know anything about the bill grumpy jenkins merlin heads, review?
To the mention of AFR 265 heads... i built a 496 with peanut port heads and a 212/218 at .05 cam. 465 tq at 3700 and 445hp at 4700 rpm. I think some AFR 265 heads with this combo would be great. Lots of low rpm power and a increase of peak hp and move it up in the rpm. I believe 500 hp would be likely. From what ive seen the afr 265 heads are about the best for a street motor.
I used a set of 3993820 heads off a truck 402 changed to bigger valves and a little clean up 113cc chamber made little over 650hp
Hi Richard, When doing abc heads, Could you please do a dyne test with stock heads, No upgraded valves stock everything, Most people Just don't have the money to buy all brand new valves, Just valve job and that's it. Thanks
ABC HEADS?
Not to mention the porting the heads I'm a little blessed there access to machine shop but yeah great because time is money not to mention parts thumbs up my friend
I run factory BBC 702 oval closed chamber heads. They were on 66/67 396/427 engines. They have bigger valves, plung cut chambers to unshroud the valves and good intake port work on the short side radius. Run a mild Clay Smith HR cam around 221/235 0.575/0.575 and my 0.030” over 454 is a torque monster in my 4500 lb C10. No traction in 1’st or 2’nd and will actually hook up when shifted into Drive. RPM Airgap/3310 Holley/9.5:1 CR/40* total timing, fun ride!
Will the 702 heads work good on a 1990 454SS truck engine.
@@michaeldspencer794 yes
I wanna keep the tbi but want more power.
The 702s don't have a place for the temp sensor will this effect the computer or can I install the sensor somewhere else.
Will the heads outperform the peanut ports I will have them freshened up but can't afford porting and polishing.
I wanna keep the tbi set up unless it starts giving my problems.
@@michaeldspencer794 my temp sensor is in the intake manifold. The 702 oval ports will flow more than peanut ports and have smaller combustion chambers thus increased compression...
Some factory heads will support 1240 hp. On boost. Gm rec ports will.
The money and time your gonna spend on the 088 heads you might as well just buy the Summit's.
What forged Pistons do you recommend? I'm looking at either something around a .125 or maybe a.200 dome to use with the stock peanut port heads. Unless I can run across a gen V heads.
18-22 cc domes is what we normally run
Can we see more of that 292 six!?
yes
Richard Thank you for your Videos!!!
If love similar info on a 460 based motor, I've got a 454 being sent out to the machine shop soon for my family heirloom wrecker, I also have a 460 I will be sending out once the rest of the work is done on my 78 f150 (still torn because pay off me wants to go all out and go 557 with airflow research heads, but part of me says do it cheap to make sure it gets done)
A big cam lowers the dynamic compression ratio. If your static compression ratio is already low, your dynamic compression ratio will drop even lower causing very low volumetric efficiency at low rpm and very poor performance. Then people blame the cam for it.
Richard, you are the best at what you do. Your name appears on many articles I have read about engine performance testing. I have a suggestion, what about offering consultations? I know I would spend a good amount of money for your thoughts on my LS combination. You know for sure what works and what doesn’t. Nothing costs more on a budget build then having to buy 2 camshafts cause you were wrong the first time. 2 sets of injectors or what have you. I will continue to support your content in the limited way I can but I would definitely pay good money for an email chat about what parts I should be ordering!
Hey boss, I cannot find that playlist.and Thanks for answering my comment question, about the 90 SS truck. During your live. I'm trying to find more info. I have ported 702 closed chambered heads. Trying to figure out what Cam and Pistons to go with. Air gap intake.
ruclips.net/video/Yt3jH7R5ixo/видео.html
@@richardholdener1727 thank you. I'll get busy learning
I have a 90 454 SS also with some 702 heads from a 325hp 396 .Id love to use these heads vs the peanut ports and a mild cam .Did you keep the tbi or did you go to carb.
@@michaeldspencer794 The project is sitting. I still have it but everything's just sitting there. I had problems finding somebody to build the engine. I got one estimate of $6,500, to me that seemed outrageous what I was looking for. Basic rebuild
What stall torque converter would you have to run with this cam?
3500
I'd like to see how ported peanut port heads would do.
nice combo on the short block , that cam really works nice . I used the biggest lunati voo doo solid roller with profiler #174 heads and only made 673 hp at 6400 and 588 ft lbs at 5800 . I bet if I used that crane cam it would have made better numbers .
Hey Richard I'm probably bother you about testing this cam already if so I apologize buddy but I was really hoping to no if you have any experience with this little lunati voodoo 625 625 219 223 on 112 in a ls I've seen good average power numbers from it just wondering if you have ever backed them up ?? This cam doesn't seem to walk the same line as alot of off shelf grind just looking for your insight on in please thanks buddy hope I'm not annoying you 👍
4 bolt main is great but 2 bolt w studs is pretty damn strong and good into 4 digits with a big Chevy
Crossbolted yes
But 2bolt main on a 13liter diesel making 1300ft lbs seems to hold
No doubt depends on the quality of your solid roller lifters and how well you keep up with keeping your valve lash correct. There have been diesels with solid roller lifters since back in the 1950's and many of those designs are known to live for over a million miles which of course is like 250K on a gasser because of the rpm difference.
I would pick V8, the sound, the feel, how it looks. Have you ever tortured the Cadillac L37 DOHC 4.6L V8? Is all of that complexity really worth it? It seems that the 4.8L LR4 has more potential With less than half of the complexity.
My understanding is that the older land rover v8s were based on the Buick 215. Wondering what may be available on any of that. My understanding is that they were light but not reliable and is why gm sold the design off
I'm basically looking at this combo, but with a Scat forged rotating ass. with JE 44cc domed pistons for a 13.1 compression range. I'm shooting for about 750 HP, and hitting it with a 250HP Nitrous shot. Would these head gaskets work for this setup or should I go with a copper head gasket or do you have another suggestion? Thanks for any input.
Also curious, what do you think this engine would produce in power if running alcohol as apposed to racing gas?
we use Fel Pro
Hi Richard. Love the content you're providing through the videos. If I recall correctly, you mentioned having experience on rotary engines. Would be great to see some videos on these, if you have any info to share?
Saying Bryce just did a "pretty good job" is kinda strange. All the work I have ever had done by him was outstanding and up to Any standard I was willing to pay for!
Hey Richard, I rebuilding my boat engines this winter. They are stock truck blocks gen 5 I believe from Mercury. The boat is a 1995 and it depends on who you talk to, the hp is anywhere from 300 to 330. These are not the magnums. My plan is to have the block bored .060 over which is a 468? Power upgrade needs to be focused more on a nice flat torque curve and I run mostly around 3500 rpm. Would not need to go over 5000 rpm for my application. Looking for direction. I know the cam lobe separation needs to be 112-114 or there is a chance for water reversion. Other than that, looking for recommendation for a nice roller cam, heads, intake and carb.
Great test Richard, thank you for hard work! I have a suggestion that would go perfect with this video topic. If you go an look up Skip White Performance located in Kingsport TN, they have a set of aluminum 335cc assembled heads that they say flow 370cfm intake/ 266cfm exhaust for $1079.00 per set assembled! It has to be the best price out there. Could you please acquire a set and go over them before you bolt them on and give us a overall impression of the heads, then obviously bolt them onto a 496 similar to this one in this video and let us know how they stack up to these or other heads.
Not sure those were around when I did this test
I ran solid lift roller on my Camaro years ago and never had any problems with it . I think it was a 600 isky roller
Salutations Richard Holdener, Can you help spec a camshaft for a 607 cubic inch BBC? AFR 265cc oval port or peanut port heads. 4.53" bore size, 11.625" tall deck. 1.270" piston, 4.71" stroke crank, custom 8" hyper forged rods. Fabricated cross ram intake, oil pan, headers. Going into 2nd gen Baldwin Motion Camaro clone resto mod. Modified firewall, foot box. Engine set back for 50/50. Manual easy ratio steering. Manual dual master cylinders with high leverage mechanical assist. Daily driver street for in denial mpg build. Want idle 450 rpm or lower. And custom low low stall nitrous converter. AC. Truck arm rear suspension. coil overs. Reinforced windshields. X bracings throughout. Daily driver with rear seats and mini tubs.
450 rpm idle?
So what kind of power can you get from a Mark IV 2 bolt block. Have one out of a boat that has the comp 525/525 lift marine cam and air gap intake stock heads. Was wondering how far I could go with it, possibly adding a Torquestorm. Changing heads and possibly putting in a HR cam.
I’m rebuilding a 496 big block has like 9.5 to 1 compression with bowtie Chevy cylinder square port heads that have been worked on what would you recommend for a hydraulic roller cam?
Get the 280 extreme energy hydraulic roller from comp cams . That 496 will be smooth with plenty of power. 550 hp plus easy.
Call Clay Smith!
What summit heads? Can you give the part number?
I have a 2012 Chevrolet pickup with a 4.3 V6 I wish you could tell me I have a video showing on RUclips some performance upgrades
Get Dulcheck to port a set of factory bbc heads and see what it gains
Richard, the world needs a PEANUT vs OVAL vs RECTANGULAR head test! Would you be so kind?
Look back in his big block videos, I’m pretty sure it’s in there
The 454 videos. Gen5 and Gen6
A man built a custom set of mopar headers a few years ago before they really had tried proven dyno-proven headers. The Man spent well over $800 in a set of headers only to see the headers made less power than the set of headers he was using. So bigger is not always better.
Can you do a video on oiling bbc
Would like to see a comparison between turbo inline 6 and turbo 4.3v8 and test in the nova.
I know I am late but just a question about flow bench testing, do you flow through the exhaust from the combustion chamber and out?
the flow bench blows out through the exhaust
Thanks Richard I was wondering haha
Mark "Vortech Pro" Jones is *the* guru for factory bbc head magic. He's getting 650-700 hp from GM #781 heads. He mostly uses hydraulic rollers or even solid flat tappet cams in his combos. Also using 2 bolt blocks as well.
Yup I saw that too...also he ran 10's with some 236 peanut ports. Not the smallest of the peanuts though. I think 360 head casting is smaller
You can use OBS for this kind of a stream. It is free. Can use webcam and share your screen at the same time and live stream to youtube.
It seems anymore the only Square Port matching number stuff. That's of any value is to the guys flipping Turn-Key original tactory cars. And you wonder buying a turn key car. How good that rebuild was really done? And under those valve covers at the back of the block are they really matching numbers and everything's factory original?
Summit bbc iron Heads discontinued, Dart bbc iron heads discontinued, EngineQuest bbc iron heads discontinued, RHS bbc iron heads discontinued....sad 😭
really-they are all gone?
@@richardholdener1727 yep, only aftermarket mk4 iron heads left are from World Products. I'm not a fan of the W.P. heads because they only come with cast in iron guides. So right off the bat you have to send them out if your not comfortable with engine machining/modifications.
Can you do some flex fuel ls testing? Ide like to use e85 stock parts and raise the compression. Even if I can’t run pump gas that’s ok.
Do the exhaust ports look as far as location. Are the summits raised?
Also wanted to ask about those retro roller cams?
So without a dyno how do I tell what the right oil level is ??
so can i drive 3500 kilometers,or use as a daily driver with that cam or is it a drive the odd day because every day use will beat the shit out of the heads
Hi Richard. Thanks for all of the great BBC videos. I have a question. I have a new set of iron World Products oval port Merlin Grumpy Jenkins bare castings that take 2.3 inch intake valves that I am thinking of using on a 454. In your opinion, are these good castings to use versus 781 or 049 heads? I can't find much about the Merlin castings. I can't find anyone who has a video on porting them.. Thanks a lot.
for a high-rpm race 454?
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for the quick reply. No, not too high of RPM, no more than 6500 RPM. I'm using it in a 55 Ford street driven truck. I am also considering increasing the stroke to 4.25, making it a 482. This way I need less piston dome needed, and perhaps less valve shrouding issues. World Products claims that these 269cc intake ports will flow 352cfm at.600 lift with a little bowl work. Not sure if that's true. I'm reading a book by David Vizard on how to port and flow them. Pretty Heavy Reading...LOL. Anyhow, Thanks again.
Right on
Hi, great show I have a set of 10051128 old pro stock heads> have you ever worked withes heads? Given the correct pistons and tunnel ram on a 509 engine what power can you get from this motor. This will be drag racing,
Thanks Bill
I have not
Are the 460 heads E7TE-BD Good
I'm not familiar with those
@@richardholdener1727 I just reading the nu off the heads it’s a 1990 f350 truck with a 460v8 . Thanks for replying well text at ya later see ya bye.
Wish i would have caught you live. My question is did both sets of the heads you tested have the same size combustion chambers? If not some of the added power could have been from a compression difference not just the difference between the heads them selves
did you watch the video-chamber size was given for both
@@richardholdener1727 ya i must have missed it some how. Sorry man
Wish I could have got in on the live chat
more of those coming up
Is there porting templates for the 088 heads anywhere ?
Your input would be greatly appreciated rich, unknown bbc 454 mk4, raced in pinks in a Camaro thats all i know, great engine lots of power, but on the very top end has a miss, that hurts et. Got a weiand tr dual 450s, petronix points upgrade matching coil, medium springs in dist, 10mm Taylor wires all in @40, running a little fat as well at idle, can't figure it out lmk what you think, thanks, btw love your channel
springs (valve float/bounce) or ignition break up-my guess
Personally I blame squirrels
Nope. Russians.
@@billrobison6314 👉🏻🐿✔️
Richard what’s the part number on the head gaskets you use on these gen 5 based builds?
Yo
I'm going to say whats up everytime I see you comment
@@tristanabell2117, Knock yourself out! 😎👍🏻
I ran a solid roller lifter on the street alot until the day the engine died. On the street fire come out the exhaust when the valve broke and piston put the broken valve into the cylinder head and the engine locked up and puked coolant out the exhaust pipes in front of the rear wheel. And it wiped out most of the engine. Cracked head, broken valve, bent valves, chewed up piston, wasted rocker arm, wasted pair of roller lifters and more. They didn't have hippo lifters then. which means high pressure roller lifters basically. If I had to do it again. I would get the hippo solid roller lifters or morel solid roller lifters without the needle bearings in the wheel but years ago those lifters were about $2,500 for a set and they were not stock diameter. you would have to bore and hone the lifter bores out. the needle bearings in the roller lifters seem to be the problem and fall apart. I'm sure there's cheaper and better hippo roller lifters out by now possibly. But the real question is are they proven to last on the street? Anymore I want stuff to stay together and last having fun cruising and some racing not be working on it all the time. I found out if you keep the RPM's down you will save a lot of wear, tear, maintenance and valve lash adjustments.only push RPM to the max when you're racing. Cruising and riding on the street keep the RPM"s down and you'll save yourself a lot of time and money. The 468 big block Chevy I had would turn 9,200 and felt good on the street shifting that high but that's the engine above that blew up. And of course this motor would never make power at that RPM. High RPMs over time kill engines. Since then I've had several big block Chevy engines to go years and thousands of miles by keeping my foot out of it, only raced when needed and RPMs down.
what power can I expect from a pontiac 400???
depends on lots of things
Think you could do some more work with the 3800 series motors?
Dart iron eagle 308. Would you or did you test them?
That's what the summit brand heads are, iron eagle 308's. Mine say it right under the valve cover
New office space
I wish we had yards in Aus littered with Gen4 / Gen5 bbc. We got nothing. Got pleanty of cheap L67 though. Waiting on an L67 big bang.
Over the years at car shows and at the racetrack if it didn't have a square Port head on the big block it wouldn't fall out of a tree. In one magazine a few years ago on a 700 horsepower blown big-block Chevy engine. the 990 square Port iron big block Chevy head versus the 781 oval port iron big block Chevy head. THE IRON OVAL PORT WAS THE WINNER!!! On Max horsepower Max torque The Oval Port head beat the square port through the Dyno.
Well Over 400cfm @28" from cast iron heads
CAN WE DO AN AMC V8 ALREADY..HEHE.....how about a 4o1 vs the WORLD...or a 36o amc vs 36o chrysler shootout.
Are all 8.1s 4 bolt main blocks
NOT SURE
So what it only revs to 2200rpm it's moving things around but never saw a broken block
Dollar for dollar if you can afford aluminum heads its the best way to go. I am saving my pennies and dimes to get AFR CNC heads. Its a 2 year investment for me, give or take 6 months. I just don't like to settle and always wonder, what if? Anybody have empty beer cans lying around lol.
I can see
Richard, how well does the Summit head compare to the AFR 265cc BBC head???
Is it close or way short of the AFR?
Thanks
I'm in it for thr 4.2!!!
045 heads any good? had u tried them Richard Holdener ? thanks RH
045?
@@richardholdener1727 14081045 bbc heads for trucks. Kinda like 781's
@@austintyler7991 are You sure You're not thinking of 049's? 049's are almost identical to 781's. Both are My favorite BBC stock iron castings. Both will make over 640hp when properly ported, and 2.19/1.88 valves. On 462 ci. With a Solid flat tappet cam.
I've ported numerous sets of both.
@@TurboDog73TX #14081045 heads 1978-87 ? Mostly trucks. I think 250 cc as opposed to 236 peanut ports. Has anyone ported the #14081045 's I've got 2 sets. One running 454 in 86C10 Silverado built 700R4 3.73 rear. Hauls ass & pull a load too.
Hey Richard I have a test for your wizardry!...how bout you blow a 86 olds 307 roller engine and see if you can hit 300hp reliably!...what say you man?...what say you?...
300 hp is a lot
781 with 2.25 intake and 1.90 exhaust.
Im running a set of 390 heads from a 396bbc there a 98cc closed chamber oval port on my 454
What’s your compression ratio? How’s it run?
@@shitbox7413 not sure what compression it but it runs great
@Ronald Lewis they are a oval port i just put a new intake on it. The numbers come back as as 396 or 402 bbc
@@redlinepullers3277, Flat top piston?
@@shitbox7413 i think so not sure about the interior parts it was in a old 3/4ton truck I bought for parts
I have a pair of 98cc closed chamber heads if you want them let me know they’re just chilling in the garage
Tried any Australian engines?
hard to find
@@richardholdener1727 I know, but we have so really good ones from GM Ford and Chrysler, all designed here, do a virtual review?
test 427 SBC good heads by world, block and test SBC world block with a set of GOOD LS heads on it/ test them the same use only heads, ,, it will be the some HP
I thought the summit heads were procomp/speedmaster
Audio is painful...
How do the 990s compare to the 088
not sure