This likely the most Teal'c has said in one go anywhere in the series and that shows how important and heart-felt the subject is for him. Great writing, great acting. Great show.
One of the most powerful and true statements you must embrace to move past huge regrets. It’s broken. You can’t fix it. You can’t undo the damage. You can only move forward.
What makes this statement all the more powerful is the fact that, as of the last episode in the TV series, Teal'c had just spent an entire human lifetime stuck in a time loop. 60+ years of sitting on a starship, doing nothing but waiting for Carter to fix the problem. And still, his past continues to haunt his mind. He hasn't forgotten. He will never forget. Teal'c speaks from experience here. 60 years, or 600, or 6000, there are some things that just won't ever leave you.
That is why Teal'C is a hero.. He does not pretend he is good, or can ever save himself. He fights so that no one ever has to act like him, or suffer because of people like him.
@@adora721lux8 He is good because he fights not for himself, but for others. He is good because he continues to fight knowing he will never find personal retribution. But to do anything else but to fight for justice and helping others is totally unthinkable and would (for him) invalidate his reason for living.
Dunno about speech but for me, words of experience, common sense and serious wisdom. Shit, alot of truth bombs in there as well. No sugarcoating No nice words No nonsense Just raw, brutal and honest truth. Goddamn.
Ironically, his agent had to lie to him so he would consider the role. Chris did some VO work on a flop game earlier in his career and held the opinion that video games were where acting careers go to die. He mentioned the game in SG1... Def Jam Vendetta. But after he got tricked into looking at the script for God of War, he mistook it for a movie on account of the damned good writing.
This really hits hard. "You will never forgive yourself. Accept it. You will never find personal retribution". And that after he almost had a normal life on earth
the best, or worst, part is how late this happens. You never had the idea that Teal'c feels this way. And here, right before the show ends, he drops this line that changes everything.
Even split between this being terrible writing or brilliant writing that showcases how immature jaffa morality really is. Me, I tend towards terrible writing. As a rule, the entertainment sector balks at morals, faith, codes of conduct of any kind, and won't understand what forgiveness means until it's far too late.
@OriginalTharios See, here's the thing. You're right that reality doesn't care what anyone thinks. So why should I care about a system of morals that are, at best, half-truths? Isn't it better to focus on studying the morals that are genuine? To focus on that reality that doesn't care what other people choose to believe?
submariner1984 in the events of Unending, Teal’c along with the rest of SG1 were stuck in a time dialation field where they spent the rest of their lives..well the ones with a normal lifespan. Teal’c was able to come back to stop that event from happening but he remained the same age
More than that, it shows a side of him that's been around for ten years, yet we never saw. He's been living with the guilt for all the horrible things he's done, and now, ten years later, he finally expresses what he's been carrying alone all this time: "You will never forgive yourself. Accept it."
we did see at least a glimpse of thi in this one episode where some townfolks hold a trial against him for killing a father who was a cripple.... don´t remember the season or episode number though.... there he was willing to let them kill him for his actions, even though that one kill saved a couple of other lives. the people there hide when others come to their planed but that cripple was slow so they would be found, that´s why teal´c chose him for a kill he was ordered to do by apophis
His voice is just so deep, ancient, and wise. Right towards the end I feel almost like I'm hearing Gandalf saying "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."
Teal'c revealed the depth of the horrors he had done and the guilt he lives with everyday. The first time I seen this, it was downright shocking. It was a moment no one expected. Only he understood the depth of the torment the other was going thru - being used by a 'false religion' knowing what you done. This moment was one of the biggest scenes in SG-1.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves. We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose. Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better. True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
@@AeneasGemini You have a point, but remember that Teal'c realized this before he stopped being First Prime. Even after realizing the evil and horrors of what he was doing he stayed as First Prime and fought to suppress it. Granted he tried to do good where he could, helping out in secret, however he still on balance did far more horrible things than good things back then. Tobin isn't struggling with doing evil because he didn't know better, he is struggling with doing evil despite knowing better and that is what Teal'c is addressing. Tobin knew deep down he was committing horrible atrocities and causing harm, but he couldn't find a way out. Teal'c had that same experience. It is true that they are not true monsters, but the fact is they are not feeling guilty for causing harm unwittingly, they are feeling guilty for knowing exactly how monstrous they were and yet still doing it.
This scene was unique in the series though. This is a rare instance of Teal'c being able to help someone who is just starting down a road that he himself is years ahead in travelling and it gives you insight into how he sees himself and his life's work. One of his best moments of the series (movie is part of the series)
Teal'c is a pretty great character. He always give either just he right touch of gravity or comic relief into just the right situation. Always great to think of the guy who can look right into your heart can laugh himself silly making a joke about nose drips. ;)
DaveRossi2 i always found this scene to give the episode he is on trail more weight. Shows why he just gave in and let it happen and told the others to bugger off and not help him escape.
kettch777 and he BELIEVED in what he was doing. That’s the key difference. Teal’c tried his best to use his influence to make awful things less awful. Tomin was a devoted fanatic, who justified his actions, as the will of his gods. Gods, he believed in. Unlike Teal’c.
It isn't stupid. I have always felt inspired by Data and Spock from the Star Trek franchise. "Evolve and better yourself." Hell, I'll even go so far as to say that I live by the actions of Capt. Kirk interpreted by Dr. McCoy. Kirk: My God, Bones. What have I done? Bones: What you had to do. What you always do; Turn death into a fighting chance to live. Lived by those words and I consider SG-1 to be my moral compass when it comes to making scientific decisions.
And to think Teal'c has been feeling this way ever since he met SG-1 and took a chance, this is the first time he's articulating it, and it's not to any of the core SG-1 members. Is Teal'c Tomin's Bra'tac?
I think we always knew this is how Teal'c feels about his crimes. The first season has an episode where he is placed on trial when SG-1 visits a planet that Apophis once subjugated. This speech tracks closely with the themes of that episode. He's articulated these feelings to O'Neil before.
One thing I find quite intersting about this is that the whole speech is not out of character for Teal'c. I've seen so many other types of fiction that has been going on for a while where a character suddenly has motivations or goals that come out off nowhere. But when we hear this speech, nothing in it is surprising to the viewer. Teal'c has always put everyone elses needs above himself and made it clear that he is not doing it for forgiveness. And after defeating the Goa'uld, he really didn't have a stake in fighting the Ori besides protecting his people which he could've done on his own turf. Yet he returned to SGC to fight them because of what he says here. And even if you are surprised that Teal'c that has never fogiven himself for what he did, watching the series again shows that yes, it's there, clear as a day.
Finally, someone gets it. I'm so tired of these people that think they can make up for the truly horrible things they have done. Teal'C understands that he can never make up for the atrocities that he committed, and strives to help as many as he can, knowing that he will never have a clean slate.
There was an episode early in the series, "Cor'ai" I think was how it was spelled. Teal'c was put in a kangaroo court for a murder while he was First Prime. He offered no defense, pleas, nothing because he wanted to be punished for his actions and give closure for the family. Sixty years later and he has barely changed.
Maybe even the MCU writers understand it. Consider Natasha, who led a life of assassination before Clint offered her a different path. From then on she had 'Red on her ledger.' Debts she felt she owed for those whose family, friends, and loved ones she had killed. Perhaps if she had Te'alc sit down and give her this wake-up call, she might have been less wanting to sacrifice herself.
Awesome - what's also amazing and heartbreaking is how lots of this can be whittled down to the individual in ordinary life. How we could've done more, more of the right thing, not stood on the sidelines so much, helped out other people, the regret of having to live with poor life choices, and so on. Just great writing
This is also why I think Jack and Teal'c were so close in the first place. Jack was in Black Ops so it meant he did "damn distasteful things" so he understood what Teal'c has done. That is why he defended him. Also why he was most likely to make bad choices at times but Daniel tried to preserve their morality. I love how everyone balances each other. Also makes it sadder when he said, "I have nowhere to go."
I don't think anything Jack did can compare to what Teal'c did. Sure on the black ops missions Jack more than likely did some pretty awful things, but I don't think he ever enslaved or killed people in the name of a false god.
That is some brutally blunt honest dialogue. This one scene shows what made this series so great. Amazing story, a bit of humor and some damn excellent writing and acting.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves. We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose. Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better. True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
I feel like this scene right here is what the writers of God of War were thinking about when writing Dad of Boy, and why they wanted Christopher Judge as their main character.
@@xaracen7207 That is because media companies tend towards appealing to the goa'uld side of humanity instead of its true heart of humble strength and goodness.
@@ronrolfsen3977 nothing I have done since turning from the goauld can make up for the atrocities I once committed on their name. Change goauld to isis, crypts, kkk.... communist regimes....the list is endless. We are all part of something that has done something terrible and truly unforgivable to someone. And right now I'm not taking about social justice, but just general stuff. For example, We can say "I robbed that liqueur store the once and the cashier recovered from the bullet wound". But then you find out the clerk is paralysed in the arm because of muscle nerve damage. Make it better by fighting for the weak. Tookie for example, killed quite a few people while he was in his gang. He spent 12 years on death row writing books to stop gang and hood culture. He was fighting for others and lived with the guilt of his crimes til his last breath.
The most profound speech Teal’C ever gave and it was a perfect time impart wisdom for another starting down the path he walked for years. He saw a kindred soul.
Great writing, great delivery. Absolutely the best "speech" in the whole series, IMHO, and it was a great series. So good. So good. Absolutely brilliant.
The funny thing for me is that when I first saw this scene, it never even occurred to me that Teal'c would have some useful advice for Tomin here. He'd been part of SG-1 for so long and the Goal'uld were basically such a distant memory that to me, Teal'c was just one of the good guys, not a former enemy soldier who'd finally had enough and switched sides. Then this conversation started, and I was like, "holy shit, how did I not remember that Teal'c has been through exactly this?!"
Its a truly brilliant scene. Teal'c has a way of offering people wisdom when they need it most. But this is the first time Teal'c is able to help somebody about to start down the path he did way back in season 1. We see this side of Teal'c throughout the entire series. When he is placed on trial for murder, he was willing to die so that justice could be served. And he saved those who would put him to death. This is what drives him, this is what he fights for. And now, he gets to to start someone else on the same path he took. But its not a path to redemption. The only thing left to do for Teal'c and Tomin, is to save as many people as they can.
Hands down one of the best scene in the series. I remember watching this movie as a kid just thinking "Damn, that was a really good piece of dialogue."
Stargate was a show that could walk the line of all emotions. Just when you think the show is action mixed with humor the show will drop deep moments like this on you. Babylon 5 and Deep space 9 also made me feel this way
And the day when Christopher lent his voice to the Ghost of Sparta... was the day I looked at the screen and went. "You have cast this role wisely." Seriously, that was f--king great.
It's so easy to forget that Teal'c spent the better part of a century treating the geneva convention like a checklist. Not because he was evil, but because he was afraid for those he loved, and placed their lives above countless others... as any father and husband would. His initial motivation was to get power to take revenge, but he borrowed power from someone else and found it was never his to choose how to wield. When he joined the Tauri, he didn't magically become a good person. But he is an example that if "All it takes for evil to triump is for good to do nothing", then "All it takes for evil to fail is for those undertaking it to repent".
Here it's like he's talking to S1 teal'c, someone who couldn't cope with the guilt and would let himself die at the hands of his victims as an act of penance.
Probably the most profound idea I ever heard expressed on the show and casts all of Teal'c's time on the show in a new light. When did he realize that redemption/forgiveness was impossible?
@@JoshSweetvale except he didn't. The son of the man he killed was still set to carry out the verdict he originally intended. Until Teal'c jumped in front of a staff blast then put himself back on the execution stand. The worst thing is, he is still right: no amount of good can *undo* previous wrongs of the caliber those two committed. But it can, hopefully, prevent future ones.
This is so powerful. If we heard Teal'c say this in an early season, we would probably dismiss it. But after 10 seasons and the decades stuck in the time loop, Teal'c still feels this way. It's a truth that has been a foundational part of his character all along. He never acted out of personal redemption.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves. We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose. Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better. True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
Now that he's done GoW, I realize just how much Teal'q is in Kratos. This is where C Judge got his inspiriation for Kratos I think because I can see Kratos saying this to Thor and to Freya.
I can honestly say my worldview of Andromeda has lessened when I learned Sorbo was a supporter of the current US Administration, but I still like that show, since it happened 20 years before 2016!
Thank you, RUclips Algorithm for this 12 year old gem! LOL I've gotta wonder though... where did the conversation go from there? Teal'C just gonna sit there and eat his meal after droping that bomb on the dude? Neither one seems like small-talky. Gonna make the dude get up? He was comfy dammit!
Everyone goes on about Teal'c's words, but Tomin's, "I sit here," hurts hard every time I hear it. The words of a man broken by his own guilt, unable to fathom how he could possibly go on, how he could possibly change what he has done, the utter defeat brought on by his own decisions. "I sit here," knowing he can do nothing, knowing he has failed in every way possible for a man, he does not seek redemption, he does not seek escape, he simply sits and waits for judgment.
Teal'c was always my favorite character. Because he's had a tumultuous journey that his built up his character in a way none of the others have. This scene just shows the depth of that struggle and the wisdom gained.
You can die old in your bed, or jump into a fight and save someone possibly getting killed in the process. But death is inevitable. Always best to die saving someone else
This is why I am a firm believer that the only ones who can best help veterans ARE veterans. A civilian has absolutely no idea what it is like and they will never fully understand, although they may try. It took a retired Sailor of the Vietnam era to finally quiet the sounds of battle in my head. I will always be haunted by my time in Iraq, but at least I know now that my past does not define me and I can find some semblance of peace.
Teal'c is 150 years old at this point. He spent a hundred years of his life serving the Goa'uld, a unknown amount of decades as first prime to Apophis, ten with the SGC making amends and fifty in the time dialation field. He's actually as old as Bratac by now but Tritonin may have extended both their lifespans.
This is an exchange that Teal’c can never have with his friends and teammate only someone like Tomin who went through the same situation and bears the same sins can he share the guilt and try to guide him on how to endure the personal torments that it brings.
I believe that, if Teal'c and O'Neill ever had this type of discussion, O'Neill would understand. Carter and Jackson.....maybe not. O'Neill's been "in the fire" enough to relate to Teal'c on this; if only in certain ways. O'Neill deals with it mostly through humor; Teal'c deals with it through personal introspection. That's one reason why he could talk to Tobin like this. Teal'c once told Jackson that, based on Jackson's experiences, Teal'c was surprised Jackson got as much sleep as he does. That wasn't a criticism of Jackson; it was Teal's way of letting Jackson know that Teal'c has dealt with a lot of the same trials and personal tribulations Jackson has. At any rate, Teal'c gave Tobin a way through his pain. Whether he chooses to follow it, or not.... is ultimately up to him.
This is the most effective and legit sermon I have ever heard. And a lot less spit polish than the heavy majority of all those evangelist preachers out there.
This actually brings up a good philosophical question: When a bad guy who has realized he's been doing evil things and sees them for what they are and turns to the side of good how do they live with themselves after that? How do they deal with the guilt and the sadness of knowing they've caused such harm for no good purpose? It certainly makes you think.
In many ways I feel like this was a conversation Teal'c wanted to have with Daniel but never could bring himself to. It's great scenes like this that show how good a character show Stargate actually was
Teal'c can't have this conversation with Daniel, but in a way he already had it as well (Changeling). Teal'c admires Daniel as one of the purest good people Teal'c has ever known, this was already Teal'c's view before Daniel's ascension but post-ascension it is clear Teal'c's feelings about Daniel goes beyond just respect and into reverence for someone being able to be this way. I don't think he wants to sully Daniel or his relationship with Daniel with this talk, and he also probably feel that Daniel might even know Teal'c better than Teal'c knows himself, remember the experiences of Changeling and how he had Daniel reach him in a time no one else ever could and get him out of it. Even if Daniel doesn't have all his ascended memories, he does have a lot of them and Teal'c knows this. Teal'c could however have this conversation with O'niell, he knows that O'niell would understand, in fact he knows O'niell understands it so well that neither of them need to have the conversation, it is superfluous as they both totally understand the point and that the each have that understanding. O'niell lived this himself during his black ops days and more importantly with the death of Charlie. We also see that Teal'c had this talk with Bra'tac long ago before Teal'c rebelled against Apophis, but that time Bra'tac was the one imparting this wisdom to Teal'c. Bra'tac also committed a long list of atrocities in service to Apophis, and when Teal'c started down that path Bra'tac helped him channel the self-loathing, shame and hatred into something good. Tobin needed the talk because he didn't understand yet.
Remember the flashback episode of Teal'c's first time as First Prime and how he stopped believing the Goa'uld were gods? Bra'tac basically gave this same talk to Teal'c back then, telling him how to use his feelings about his actions, himself and such as fuel to fight for good, he might not be able to save himself but he could use his position and knowledge to save others and do some good even if he damned himself in doing so.
This reminds me of the end scene of "In the Pale Moonlight" on Deep Space Nine. The cold, hard reality of living with the past expressions of one's own barbarity and how one must try, even failingly, to balance the books as much as one can.
@aquilascura I think when one realizes like Tomin and Teal'c have that he has been living a lie and serving a lie, there has to be a period of looking for a way to redeem oneself of that shameful past. It is a moment of losing everything you believed about yourself and the world you inhabited. Teal'c empathizes because he sees Tomin starting down a road Teal'c has already travelled.
This moment right here is why Christopher Judge will always be Kratos to me. No matter if they make a live action God of War movie, he will always be Kratos.
teal is one of the most profound characters of my childhood, along with daniel jacksons worldview, and stories like boromir of gondor, fallen from grace but sacrifices everything to make it right
This likely the most Teal'c has said in one go anywhere in the series and that shows how important and heart-felt the subject is for him. Great writing, great acting. Great show.
Indeed
This is my favorite scene in Stargate.
the guy grew into the role, got better over the years for sure.
Teal’c is a man of few words however he is not a man of few butt kicking
Tealc is a man of few words but when he talks it means these are words that need to be said.
“I cannot imagine the day I will forgive myself.”
“Because It Will Never Come.”
"I know...but I am your monster no longer."
@@JnEricsonx and with those words, he PROVES that what he said, as Teal'c, remains: he will never forgive himself
You are no longer the Demon Nine Tailed Fox.
You are the partner of a citizen from Hidden Leaf Village. Kurama.
One of the most powerful and true statements you must embrace to move past huge regrets. It’s broken. You can’t fix it. You can’t undo the damage. You can only move forward.
What makes this statement all the more powerful is the fact that, as of the last episode in the TV series, Teal'c had just spent an entire human lifetime stuck in a time loop.
60+ years of sitting on a starship, doing nothing but waiting for Carter to fix the problem. And still, his past continues to haunt his mind. He hasn't forgotten. He will never forget. Teal'c speaks from experience here. 60 years, or 600, or 6000, there are some things that just won't ever leave you.
"...my depth is immaterial to this conversation..."
ElChristo ohhhhh seeee so deep
@@TheMelbournelad "No more beer for you."
No but, Teal'c's is.
Ahahahah....I love that line.
This community is beautiful.
That is why Teal'C is a hero..
He does not pretend he is good, or can ever save himself.
He fights so that no one ever has to act like him, or suffer because of people like him.
Teal'C is good, but he never forgets that he was once bad and did great evil. But he is good.
@@adora721lux8 He is good because he fights not for himself, but for others. He is good because he continues to fight knowing he will never find personal retribution. But to do anything else but to fight for justice and helping others is totally unthinkable and would (for him) invalidate his reason for living.
@@kellyrayburn4093 This episode and Threshold are the best Teal'c moments.
@@adora721lux8 he did bad/evil things but he was never bad/evil.
He is redeemed, and walks in the light. But he can never atone. What's done is done, and he can only be a better man going forwards.
"That is the least you can do..."
Hits me like a bulldozer. What an amazing line. What an amazing speech.
I agree. That line and "It was the way things were." really stick with me. Incredible speech.
Dunno about speech but for me, words of experience, common sense and serious wisdom. Shit, alot of truth bombs in there as well.
No sugarcoating
No nice words
No nonsense
Just raw, brutal and honest truth.
Goddamn.
Consider that rephrased, then. Turn "This is the least you can do" into "You may not do anything less than this." Consider these words.
I bet this scene is one of the reasons why Christopher Judge got cast as Kratos. He already gets the God of War's personal journey.
Ironically, his agent had to lie to him so he would consider the role. Chris did some VO work on a flop game earlier in his career and held the opinion that video games were where acting careers go to die. He mentioned the game in SG1... Def Jam Vendetta. But after he got tricked into looking at the script for God of War, he mistook it for a movie on account of the damned good writing.
This even hits harder after Valhalla in which Kratos comes to the same conclusion as Teal’c
I'm a big Star Trek guy, but man, has Stargate ever aged better than a lot of Star Trek's episodes. I'm gonna go back and start rewatching SG1.
I’ve always felt that SG1 was more of an homage to TNG than anything else.
I would say that different people interpret it differently
TNG?
From SG1?
My man, Kirk should be spelled with two L's.
Fuck me.
TNG my old white ass...
This really hits hard. "You will never forgive yourself. Accept it. You will never find personal retribution". And that after he almost had a normal life on earth
the best, or worst, part is how late this happens. You never had the idea that Teal'c feels this way. And here, right before the show ends, he drops this line that changes everything.
@@TheTSense That episode where he was on trial.
Even split between this being terrible writing or brilliant writing that showcases how immature jaffa morality really is. Me, I tend towards terrible writing. As a rule, the entertainment sector balks at morals, faith, codes of conduct of any kind, and won't understand what forgiveness means until it's far too late.
@OriginalTharios I could honestly not care less.
@OriginalTharios See, here's the thing. You're right that reality doesn't care what anyone thinks. So why should I care about a system of morals that are, at best, half-truths? Isn't it better to focus on studying the morals that are genuine? To focus on that reality that doesn't care what other people choose to believe?
the wisdom of a 160-year old man
I forgot that this took place AFTER unending O.O
160 Jaffa
When sg1 met him he was in his 90s. How can he suddenly be 160 and older than bretac
submariner1984 in the events of Unending, Teal’c along with the rest of SG1 were stuck in a time dialation field where they spent the rest of their lives..well the ones with a normal lifespan. Teal’c was able to come back to stop that event from happening but he remained the same age
The least you can do. Your abilities are valued, even when you don't value yourself.
I think I got more insight into Teal'c's character in this one awesome scene than I did in the 10 seasons preceding it.
Surax I agree, I learned more about teal'c. in this scene than I did in the episode where he and sq-1 visited a planet years ago,
More than that, it shows a side of him that's been around for ten years, yet we never saw. He's been living with the guilt for all the horrible things he's done, and now, ten years later, he finally expresses what he's been carrying alone all this time: "You will never forgive yourself. Accept it."
Indeed. One of his deepest and most personal moments.
we did see at least a glimpse of thi in this one episode where some townfolks hold a trial against him for killing a father who was a cripple.... don´t remember the season or episode number though.... there he was willing to let them kill him for his actions, even though that one kill saved a couple of other lives. the people there hide when others come to their planed but that cripple was slow so they would be found, that´s why teal´c chose him for a kill he was ordered to do by apophis
Season 1, episode: Cor Ai
His voice is just so deep, ancient, and wise. Right towards the end I feel almost like I'm hearing Gandalf saying "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."
Teal'c revealed the depth of the horrors he had done and the guilt he lives with everyday. The first time I seen this, it was downright shocking. It was a moment no one expected. Only he understood the depth of the torment the other was going thru - being used by a 'false religion' knowing what you done. This moment was one of the biggest scenes in SG-1.
Replace "false god" with MAGA and it fits perfectly.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves.
We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose.
Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better.
True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
@@AeneasGemini You have a point, but remember that Teal'c realized this before he stopped being First Prime. Even after realizing the evil and horrors of what he was doing he stayed as First Prime and fought to suppress it. Granted he tried to do good where he could, helping out in secret, however he still on balance did far more horrible things than good things back then.
Tobin isn't struggling with doing evil because he didn't know better, he is struggling with doing evil despite knowing better and that is what Teal'c is addressing. Tobin knew deep down he was committing horrible atrocities and causing harm, but he couldn't find a way out. Teal'c had that same experience.
It is true that they are not true monsters, but the fact is they are not feeling guilty for causing harm unwittingly, they are feeling guilty for knowing exactly how monstrous they were and yet still doing it.
This scene was unique in the series though. This is a rare instance of Teal'c being able to help someone who is just starting down a road that he himself is years ahead in travelling and it gives you insight into how he sees himself and his life's work. One of his best moments of the series (movie is part of the series)
Teal'c is a pretty great character. He always give either just he right touch of gravity or comic relief into just the right situation.
Always great to think of the guy who can look right into your heart can laugh himself silly making a joke about nose drips. ;)
DaveRossi2 i always found this scene to give the episode he is on trail more weight. Shows why he just gave in and let it happen and told the others to bugger off and not help him escape.
Joby Ayala indeed
Tomin wasn't just starting down that road. He'd traveled it---and done unspeakable wrong at the orders of the Priors and the Ori by that point.
kettch777 and he BELIEVED in what he was doing. That’s the key difference. Teal’c tried his best to use his influence to make awful things less awful. Tomin was a devoted fanatic, who justified his actions, as the will of his gods. Gods, he believed in. Unlike Teal’c.
I might sound dumb but watching this as kid really shaped me into the person i am today. This and many other moments.
Ditto.
His words were very inspiring.
Why would it sound dumb. If anything this a "TV" lesson id be proud of my kids for taking to heart.
It isn't stupid. I have always felt inspired by Data and Spock from the Star Trek franchise. "Evolve and better yourself."
Hell, I'll even go so far as to say that I live by the actions of Capt. Kirk interpreted by Dr. McCoy.
Kirk: My God, Bones. What have I done?
Bones: What you had to do. What you always do; Turn death into a fighting chance to live.
Lived by those words and I consider SG-1 to be my moral compass when it comes to making scientific decisions.
Bruh... this show was just amazing I mean here’s me at the age of 32 still watching SG1 stuff.. it’s just shows what human nature can be... 🥺😂
And to think Teal'c has been feeling this way ever since he met SG-1 and took a chance, this is the first time he's articulating it, and it's not to any of the core SG-1 members. Is Teal'c Tomin's Bra'tac?
Yep, yes he is
I feel like you could always see it in his eyes
Tomin: "I have nowhere to go"
Teal'c: "For this, you can stay at my place."
@@TViper2369 ahhh i wasn't gonma cry today but oh man!!! That hits like 50k tons of bricks!!
I think we always knew this is how Teal'c feels about his crimes. The first season has an episode where he is placed on trial when SG-1 visits a planet that Apophis once subjugated. This speech tracks closely with the themes of that episode. He's articulated these feelings to O'Neil before.
One thing I find quite intersting about this is that the whole speech is not out of character for Teal'c. I've seen so many other types of fiction that has been going on for a while where a character suddenly has motivations or goals that come out off nowhere. But when we hear this speech, nothing in it is surprising to the viewer. Teal'c has always put everyone elses needs above himself and made it clear that he is not doing it for forgiveness. And after defeating the Goa'uld, he really didn't have a stake in fighting the Ori besides protecting his people which he could've done on his own turf. Yet he returned to SGC to fight them because of what he says here. And even if you are surprised that Teal'c that has never fogiven himself for what he did, watching the series again shows that yes, it's there, clear as a day.
Due in large part to this being an extension of a subplot that tracks all the way back to season 1 (Cor-Ai).
Finally, someone gets it. I'm so tired of these people that think they can make up for the truly horrible things they have done. Teal'C understands that he can never make up for the atrocities that he committed, and strives to help as many as he can, knowing that he will never have a clean slate.
There was an episode early in the series, "Cor'ai" I think was how it was spelled. Teal'c was put in a kangaroo court for a murder while he was First Prime. He offered no defense, pleas, nothing because he wanted to be punished for his actions and give closure for the family. Sixty years later and he has barely changed.
S-094 Cam well, slaughter people for longer than most people will ever live, and see how you feel about your past actions lol.
Considering he's literally helped save the GALAXY multiple times....yea he's forgiven lol
Maybe even the MCU writers understand it. Consider Natasha, who led a life of assassination before Clint offered her a different path. From then on she had 'Red on her ledger.' Debts she felt she owed for those whose family, friends, and loved ones she had killed. Perhaps if she had Te'alc sit down and give her this wake-up call, she might have been less wanting to sacrifice herself.
@@samsonguy10k On the other hand, she knew what had to be done and picked the most "needs of the many" course of action in a no-win situation.
This scene, even after so many years still gives me chills. It is such a culmination of his character development its amazing to see.
Awesome - what's also amazing and heartbreaking is how lots of this can be whittled down to the individual in ordinary life. How we could've done more, more of the right thing, not stood on the sidelines so much, helped out other people, the regret of having to live with poor life choices, and so on. Just great writing
This is also why I think Jack and Teal'c were so close in the first place. Jack was in Black Ops so it meant he did "damn distasteful things" so he understood what Teal'c has done. That is why he defended him. Also why he was most likely to make bad choices at times but Daniel tried to preserve their morality. I love how everyone balances each other. Also makes it sadder when he said, "I have nowhere to go."
Jack pretty much hinted that he’s had to kill people he didn’t want to kill, or he did some unspeakable things while “serving his country”
I don't think anything Jack did can compare to what Teal'c did. Sure on the black ops missions Jack more than likely did some pretty awful things, but I don't think he ever enslaved or killed people in the name of a false god.
It goes the other way around, Daniel shares some of the same hatred Jack and Teal'c have for the G'ould. Especially Apophis.
@@Halesburg yeah he had that moment of darkened hatred
That is some brutally blunt honest dialogue. This one scene shows what made this series so great. Amazing story, a bit of humor and some damn excellent writing and acting.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves.
We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose.
Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better.
True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
My God, we need more characters, and well written moments like this in TV and movies today.
God, I love Teal'c
- How do I forgive myself?
- That's the neat part, you don't!
I feel like this scene right here is what the writers of God of War were thinking about when writing Dad of Boy, and why they wanted Christopher Judge as their main character.
"We need someone to play Deep Kratos."
Christopher Judge's manager:
Coming back to enjoy this clip 16 years later. Awesome!
One hell of a guidance counselor session.
This is why Christopher judge was THE BEST DAMN CHOICE to voice Kratos in the God of war Norse Series!
This is most certainly the best non comedic scene in ANY of the Stargate series or movies.
it was comedy goa' uld
Elia Papasavvas
HahaHAAAAA
*_The door is to the right_*
@@xaracen7207 That is because media companies tend towards appealing to the goa'uld side of humanity instead of its true heart of humble strength and goodness.
It's from the movie Stargate The Ark of Truth. After the 10th SG-1 season.
And IMO the deepest insight into Teal'c ever portrayed.
Ah, good acting,writing and production, how I miss thee......
The warp field at the very last second was actually Tomin having his mind blown.
The speech that could change humanity, if we would only listen
How would it change humanity?
@@ronrolfsen3977 by knowing that you know there is a problem and doing something about it.....The Bhuddha's 4th Noble truth
@@ronrolfsen3977 nothing I have done since turning from the goauld can make up for the atrocities I once committed on their name.
Change goauld to isis, crypts, kkk.... communist regimes....the list is endless.
We are all part of something that has done something terrible and truly unforgivable to someone. And right now I'm not taking about social justice, but just general stuff.
For example, We can say "I robbed that liqueur store the once and the cashier recovered from the bullet wound". But then you find out the clerk is paralysed in the arm because of muscle nerve damage.
Make it better by fighting for the weak.
Tookie for example, killed quite a few people while he was in his gang. He spent 12 years on death row writing books to stop gang and hood culture. He was fighting for others and lived with the guilt of his crimes til his last breath.
@@stavrosgiannaros7041 Tookie was a First Prime?
@@Ragitsu he certainly realised he would never find personal retribution. Spent all his time on death row writing books trying to end gang culture
The most profound speech Teal’C ever gave and it was a perfect time impart wisdom for another starting down the path he walked for years. He saw a kindred soul.
Great writing, great delivery. Absolutely the best "speech" in the whole series, IMHO, and it was a great series. So good. So good. Absolutely brilliant.
Teal'c is being uncharacteristically chatty here, but what he has to say feels very much in character. This is a well written exchange.
The funny thing for me is that when I first saw this scene, it never even occurred to me that Teal'c would have some useful advice for Tomin here. He'd been part of SG-1 for so long and the Goal'uld were basically such a distant memory that to me, Teal'c was just one of the good guys, not a former enemy soldier who'd finally had enough and switched sides. Then this conversation started, and I was like, "holy shit, how did I not remember that Teal'c has been through exactly this?!"
Its a truly brilliant scene. Teal'c has a way of offering people wisdom when they need it most. But this is the first time Teal'c is able to help somebody about to start down the path he did way back in season 1. We see this side of Teal'c throughout the entire series. When he is placed on trial for murder, he was willing to die so that justice could be served. And he saved those who would put him to death. This is what drives him, this is what he fights for. And now, he gets to to start someone else on the same path he took. But its not a path to redemption. The only thing left to do for Teal'c and Tomin, is to save as many people as they can.
Oma Dalsala would say that them helping and saving so many DOES redeem their soul!
Something like:
"One saving others is already saved"
Hands down one of the best scene in the series. I remember watching this movie as a kid just thinking "Damn, that was a really good piece of dialogue."
Stargate was a show that could walk the line of all emotions. Just when you think the show is action mixed with humor the show will drop deep moments like this on you. Babylon 5 and Deep space 9 also made me feel this way
This single scene shows how great a character Teal'c was, and made me actually care about Tobin.
Chris got some really good scenes.
I like this one a lot.
Teal'c was Kratos before he was Kratos lol
And the day when Christopher lent his voice to the Ghost of Sparta... was the day I looked at the screen and went. "You have cast this role wisely."
Seriously, that was f--king great.
He was a student on macguyver before any of this.
Athena: You are still a monster.
Kratos: I am YOUR monster no longer.
@@RapidCityJM Have you ever heard the alternate take of that line? Jesus it's emotional."
As Teal'C Himself would say: "Indeed"
It's so easy to forget that Teal'c spent the better part of a century treating the geneva convention like a checklist. Not because he was evil, but because he was afraid for those he loved, and placed their lives above countless others... as any father and husband would. His initial motivation was to get power to take revenge, but he borrowed power from someone else and found it was never his to choose how to wield. When he joined the Tauri, he didn't magically become a good person. But he is an example that if "All it takes for evil to triump is for good to do nothing", then "All it takes for evil to fail is for those undertaking it to repent".
Here it's like he's talking to S1 teal'c, someone who couldn't cope with the guilt and would let himself die at the hands of his victims as an act of penance.
This hits different after the end of Valhalla!
Probably the most profound idea I ever heard expressed on the show and casts all of Teal'c's time on the show in a new light. When did he realize that redemption/forgiveness was impossible?
Back in season 1. "Cor'ai" was the episode
@@s-094cam5 agreed, even after he was told that he killed that person but one of his actual victims.
@@JoshSweetvale except he didn't. The son of the man he killed was still set to carry out the verdict he originally intended. Until Teal'c jumped in front of a staff blast then put himself back on the execution stand.
The worst thing is, he is still right: no amount of good can *undo* previous wrongs of the caliber those two committed. But it can, hopefully, prevent future ones.
One of the most deep and poignant monologues in TV history.
This is so powerful. If we heard Teal'c say this in an early season, we would probably dismiss it. But after 10 seasons and the decades stuck in the time loop, Teal'c still feels this way. It's a truth that has been a foundational part of his character all along. He never acted out of personal redemption.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves.
We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose.
Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better.
True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
@@AeneasGemini bit of a different story when you're making entire planets extinct
Fight for others that can be saved through your efforts that is the least you can do..truly inspired
He is a calm and reasonable person isn’t he?
Now that he's done GoW, I realize just how much Teal'q is in Kratos. This is where C Judge got his inspiriation for Kratos I think because I can see Kratos saying this to Thor and to Freya.
TL was 100% correct. Obviously we cannot change the past but we can make a difference in the future.
Anyone ever see a show called Andromeda?
Teal'c is what the Nietzscheans were supposed to be. Badass warrior poets.
Ya that show was just cheesy sci-fi fun
Who doesn’t love that?!
Yea, but they turened into selfish a** hats who have little honor or loyalty, and only out for themselves.
I can honestly say my worldview of Andromeda has lessened when I learned Sorbo was a supporter of the current US Administration, but I still like that show, since it happened 20 years before 2016!
@@shadowpod13 That's why he said "supposed to be."
@@Howyaduing So long as we do not speak of the last season. One should never speak of the last season of Andromeda.
Thank you, RUclips Algorithm for this 12 year old gem! LOL
I've gotta wonder though... where did the conversation go from there? Teal'C just gonna sit there and eat his meal after droping that bomb on the dude? Neither one seems like small-talky. Gonna make the dude get up? He was comfy dammit!
Teal'c is gonna pound that dinner while Tomlin comes down off his existential crisis.
Everyone goes on about Teal'c's words, but Tomin's, "I sit here," hurts hard every time I hear it. The words of a man broken by his own guilt, unable to fathom how he could possibly go on, how he could possibly change what he has done, the utter defeat brought on by his own decisions. "I sit here," knowing he can do nothing, knowing he has failed in every way possible for a man, he does not seek redemption, he does not seek escape, he simply sits and waits for judgment.
meanwhile Kylo Ren has a hallucination about his dad forgiving him for killing him
I sit here.......watching this again......and still have gooseskin caus e of this epic calm moment.
Always reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the novel, Forging Hephaestus, "when a man of few words speaks everyone listens."
Reminds me of the 13th doctors speech about the scale model of war.
12th - Peter Capaldi, and yes - easily one of (if not THE) best speech by the BEST Doctor for speeches.
Some of the best monologues in any series ever.
G'Kar from Babylon 5 had some good ones too
holy shit
the feels
I really love his voice
@DEEPFOXJUDE Go play God of War if you haven't.
Teal'c was always my favorite character. Because he's had a tumultuous journey that his built up his character in a way none of the others have. This scene just shows the depth of that struggle and the wisdom gained.
Reminds me of that time Daniel was tipsy "Teal'c is the deepest person I know! He's SO deep!"
Its really the final line that kills it.
It's the first that does it for me.
"Damn, that's how you felt for all these years teal'c?"
I love this show.
This speech is AMAZING! I put it to my favorits!
BTW, he's voicing Kratos in the next God of War game.
@@JnEricsonx *BOI*
motivating speech : D
“Do not fight for yourself”
I wonder if I would have the bravery to do such a thing if circumstances demanded it of me
You probably won't know until you're put in that situation
You can die old in your bed, or jump into a fight and save someone possibly getting killed in the process. But death is inevitable. Always best to die saving someone else
Would you kill a Trump supporter if they required it?
This show... so amazing.
Teal'c is awesome! Always knew he was a wise man, love him here ❤️❤️❤️ His voice is so reassuring 👍👍👍
This is why I am a firm believer that the only ones who can best help veterans ARE veterans. A civilian has absolutely no idea what it is like and they will never fully understand, although they may try. It took a retired Sailor of the Vietnam era to finally quiet the sounds of battle in my head. I will always be haunted by my time in Iraq, but at least I know now that my past does not define me and I can find some semblance of peace.
Yes, I agree it's why we have first responders talk to other first responders when we have debriefings.
“I killed many who were deserving. Many who were not.” Not very far from kratos. He wanted justice and sacrificed alot for it.
Very powerful.
"That is the least you can do, boy!"
Teal'c is 150 years old at this point. He spent a hundred years of his life serving the Goa'uld, a unknown amount of decades as first prime to Apophis, ten with the SGC making amends and fifty in the time dialation field.
He's actually as old as Bratac by now but Tritonin may have extended both their lifespans.
This is an exchange that Teal’c can never have with his friends and teammate only someone like Tomin who went through the same situation and bears the same sins can he share the guilt and try to guide him on how to endure the personal torments that it brings.
I believe that, if Teal'c and O'Neill ever had this type of discussion, O'Neill would understand. Carter and Jackson.....maybe not. O'Neill's been "in the fire" enough to relate to Teal'c on this; if only in certain ways. O'Neill deals with it mostly through humor; Teal'c deals with it through personal introspection. That's one reason why he could talk to Tobin like this. Teal'c once told Jackson that, based on Jackson's experiences, Teal'c was surprised Jackson got as much sleep as he does. That wasn't a criticism of Jackson; it was Teal's way of letting Jackson know that Teal'c has dealt with a lot of the same trials and personal tribulations Jackson has. At any rate, Teal'c gave Tobin a way through his pain. Whether he chooses to follow it, or not.... is ultimately up to him.
god this is such a good scene
All I can hear is Kratos now, lol. Damn he's got some words of wisdom.
Kratos needed Teal'c to straighten him out.
"I killed many who were deserving. And many who were not."
This is the most effective and legit sermon I have ever heard. And a lot less spit polish than the heavy majority of all those evangelist preachers out there.
that line. Fight for others... it gets me every time
- Description: "Teal'c has his best moment of the series."
- Me: Indeed...
Truly the deepest moment in the series
On Gawd this scene is something I never forget.
This actually brings up a good philosophical question: When a bad guy who has realized he's been doing evil things and sees them for what they are and turns to the side of good how do they live with themselves after that? How do they deal with the guilt and the sadness of knowing they've caused such harm for no good purpose? It certainly makes you think.
In many ways I feel like this was a conversation Teal'c wanted to have with Daniel but never could bring himself to.
It's great scenes like this that show how good a character show Stargate actually was
Teal'c can't have this conversation with Daniel, but in a way he already had it as well (Changeling). Teal'c admires Daniel as one of the purest good people Teal'c has ever known, this was already Teal'c's view before Daniel's ascension but post-ascension it is clear Teal'c's feelings about Daniel goes beyond just respect and into reverence for someone being able to be this way. I don't think he wants to sully Daniel or his relationship with Daniel with this talk, and he also probably feel that Daniel might even know Teal'c better than Teal'c knows himself, remember the experiences of Changeling and how he had Daniel reach him in a time no one else ever could and get him out of it. Even if Daniel doesn't have all his ascended memories, he does have a lot of them and Teal'c knows this.
Teal'c could however have this conversation with O'niell, he knows that O'niell would understand, in fact he knows O'niell understands it so well that neither of them need to have the conversation, it is superfluous as they both totally understand the point and that the each have that understanding. O'niell lived this himself during his black ops days and more importantly with the death of Charlie.
We also see that Teal'c had this talk with Bra'tac long ago before Teal'c rebelled against Apophis, but that time Bra'tac was the one imparting this wisdom to Teal'c. Bra'tac also committed a long list of atrocities in service to Apophis, and when Teal'c started down that path Bra'tac helped him channel the self-loathing, shame and hatred into something good.
Tobin needed the talk because he didn't understand yet.
Damn... This had God of War written call over it. It like he's talking to Kratos.
I love Teal'c!
Amazing scene incredible preformed. Kicks me in the gut ever time I see it.
Remember the flashback episode of Teal'c's first time as First Prime and how he stopped believing the Goa'uld were gods?
Bra'tac basically gave this same talk to Teal'c back then, telling him how to use his feelings about his actions, himself and such as fuel to fight for good, he might not be able to save himself but he could use his position and knowledge to save others and do some good even if he damned himself in doing so.
And then some time later he started killing ACTUAL gods. :)
Teal'c always had a good head on his shoulders.
I think the episode was written by someone that's been down that road.
This reminds me of the end scene of "In the Pale Moonlight" on Deep Space Nine. The cold, hard reality of living with the past expressions of one's own barbarity and how one must try, even failingly, to balance the books as much as one can.
@aquilascura I think when one realizes like Tomin and Teal'c have that he has been living a lie and serving a lie, there has to be a period of looking for a way to redeem oneself of that shameful past. It is a moment of losing everything you believed about yourself and the world you inhabited. Teal'c empathizes because he sees Tomin starting down a road Teal'c has already travelled.
teal'c is so deep
As it turns out, his depth is not imarterial to this conversation
For all his strength and martial qualities, it is his wisdom and his heart that stand tallest. Jaffa Kri!
This moment right here is why Christopher Judge will always be Kratos to me. No matter if they make a live action God of War movie, he will always be Kratos.
And it's why I'm dying for whatever the hell God of War Ragnarok is. I'm guessing it's a proper sequel? THAT will get me to buy a PS5.
teal is one of the most profound characters of my childhood, along with daniel jacksons worldview, and stories like boromir of gondor, fallen from grace but sacrifices everything to make it right
Maybe Cory Barlog saw this a while ago and thinked that Chris would make a fine Kratos?
Such a deep view inside teal'cs soul