I understand that the Major scale is diatonic, and the minor scale is diatonic. What about the harmonic and melodic minor scales? Are they also classed as diatonic scales. Are there any other scales that are classed as diatonic?
Hi Mark .. apologies for late reply. In essence to be a diatonic scale it must contain 5 tone and 2 semitone intervals. The harmonic minor isn't as it has a tone and half step in there. The melodic minor is a funny one and it will depend on who you read as to what answer you get. In essence I imagine you could say they are two different scales depending on direction and of course the harmony derived from them would also be different. As for other scales classed as diatonic. Any mode of a diatonic scale is also a diatonic scale. For example if you take C Major as a start (ie all white notes from C to C) and then play all white notes from D to D you get the D Dorian scale which is also diatonic as it effectively contains the same intervals as the major just in a different order. Hope that helps
This stuff would be much easier for people to wrap their heads around if we didn’t talk about multiple diatonic “scales” but instead spoke of a single diatonic scale - thought of as a distinctive pattern of large and small intervals, that extends infinitely in both directions, has no particular beginning or end, and no particular note designated as tonic - which can be perceived in seven different modes.
I'm 99% on board with you. I still think the concept of tonic is important as a C Ionian and and E Phrygian are quite different in character but of course that all stems from the perceived tonic and the harmonic influence rather that the string of pitches. But I think I know what you're saying in terms of the structures (as you say - all the same stretching to the infinite) but when you move to harmony those concepts (Tonic - Dominant etc. become more "apparent" so to speak. But looked at more broadly I am 100% on board with emphasising the similarities more than the differences. Appreciate the comment :)
I’m not saying tonic isn’t important. I’m saying that it would all have a lot more intuitive clarity if we understood tonic to define MODE, not “scale”, or “key”. C major and A minor, for example, rather than being thought of as two different scales and two different keys, are better understood as the SAME key (the “white notes” key), of the SAME scale (the diatonic scale), but perceived in two different modes of that scale, each defined by their respective tonics. The semantics are what makes it muddled, because different terms are used to mean the same thing in different contexts, while conversely the same term is used to mean different things in different contexts.
Kind of .. both the G major and B Phyrgian scale are diatonic, and totally related in that B Phrygian is the related Phyrgian mode to G Major. What makes them diatonic is the composition of 5 tones and 2 semitones. Let me know if that answers the question or if I've missed the point let me know and I'll have another go :) Apologies for late reply I didn't get the comment notification.
Hi .. sorry for really really late reply .. your comment was marked as likely spam and I missed it. I use Windows Whiteboard for the drawing content and Musescore for the score examples. The version in the video is probably version 2. Version 3 is out now which has a bundle of quality of life improvements.
In My Music I got 8 Letters in the Music Alphabet (A B C D E F G H) Then also starts all over at A T T S T T T T S C Major: C D E F G H A B C Heptatonic Scales: Major: C D E F G H A C Promotheus: C D E F G A B C Diatonic: C D E F G H B C
In essence yes, although the example you've given is actually the A melodic minor scale. In the case of the harmonic minor you can form triads off the steps of the scale but the scale itself is not diatonic as it has a minor 3rd (or 3 semitone) interval in it. BUT, I have seen chords formed on the steps of any scale referred to as diatonic triads. It's not strictly correct although common enough usage now and we understand what is meant by diatonic triads. If I see this term I generally assume the writer meant "triads formed off the steps of the scale", whether the source scale is diatonic or not. Just to square the circle, the chords off of the A harmonic minor would be Am - Bdim - C+ - Dm - E - F - G#dim Hope that helps :)
That's cool and all, but WHY does a scale with 5 tones and 2 halftones sound perfect/complete to the human ear? It doesn't make sense. It seems so arbitrary.
hey .. I think to a degree part of that will have to do with 'cultural' familiarity. Someone who grew up in a completely different cultural/musical context might not hear it the same way. Even taking some of the diatonic modes (the Lochrian for example) can sound a little 'unbalanced'. I'd argue that there are scales that aren't diatonic that are actually more readily accessible in the ear. The pentatonic scales being a great example. Not sure if that helps .. but just my take on it :)
@ Hi .. ok apologies if I've replied incorrectly there. That may be the case. I was always of the impression it was just 5 tones and 2 semitones regardless of order from my Uni days. Let me double check and get back to you.
4 года назад
@@simonrigby2776 Don't worry, i just wanted to let you know about it, since nobody seems to know what's the real answer, myself included.
Thank you! You helped a lot in my independent music theory study.
Happy to help!
This is the first time I managed to really understand the concept of diatonicism. Even seasoned musicians don't explain it this fluidly. Great video!
Thanks Hal .. appreciated :)
I've heard complicated ways of explaining this. You made it easy to understand. Thank you.
You're very welcome!
So simply explained. Mind blown.
You opened my eyes in finding triads and therfore determining minor major chords in scale..
good stuff Mike .. glad it was useful :)
This is a bit of a stretch for me, but you made it clear. Thanks!
no problem .. glad it helped
Thanks a lot buddy. Keep up the good spirit❤️
Thank you :)
Well explained.
This was very clear and useful, thank you!
Awesome video this helped me prepare for a fundamentals111 test.
Fantastic .. glad it was helpful .. hope you ace the test :)
Simon Rigby Music Education only missed one question and got 72 out of 74 thank you.
@@notsure2696 great stuff :)
Thank You!
Nice on
Nice. First one reminds me of music from "The Postman" :)
Really late reply .. and wasn't intentional .. but what a film that is :) an all time fave
I understand that the Major scale is diatonic, and the minor scale is diatonic. What about the harmonic and melodic minor scales? Are they also classed as diatonic scales. Are there any other scales that are classed as diatonic?
Hi Mark .. apologies for late reply. In essence to be a diatonic scale it must contain 5 tone and 2 semitone intervals.
The harmonic minor isn't as it has a tone and half step in there.
The melodic minor is a funny one and it will depend on who you read as to what answer you get. In essence I imagine you could say they are two different scales depending on direction and of course the harmony derived from them would also be different.
As for other scales classed as diatonic. Any mode of a diatonic scale is also a diatonic scale. For example if you take C Major as a start (ie all white notes from C to C) and then play all white notes from D to D you get the D Dorian scale which is also diatonic as it effectively contains the same intervals as the major just in a different order.
Hope that helps
@@simonrigby2776 Thanks for the reply. It all helps.
Thanks!
Thx it was very helpful
Glad it helped :)
This was really helpful. To the point.
Glad to help
Omfg thank you very much!
Glad I could help!
So uh. What about a scale where the half steps are right next to each other? Like:
C-Db-D-E-Gb-Ab-Bb-C?
Technically yes it's diatonic.
@@simonrigby2776 wow lol. That would sound interesting.
This stuff would be much easier for people to wrap their heads around if we didn’t talk about multiple diatonic “scales” but instead spoke of a single diatonic scale - thought of as a distinctive pattern of large and small intervals, that extends infinitely in both directions, has no particular beginning or end, and no particular note designated as tonic - which can be perceived in seven different modes.
I'm 99% on board with you. I still think the concept of tonic is important as a C Ionian and and E Phrygian are quite different in character but of course that all stems from the perceived tonic and the harmonic influence rather that the string of pitches. But I think I know what you're saying in terms of the structures (as you say - all the same stretching to the infinite) but when you move to harmony those concepts (Tonic - Dominant etc. become more "apparent" so to speak.
But looked at more broadly I am 100% on board with emphasising the similarities more than the differences.
Appreciate the comment :)
I’m not saying tonic isn’t important. I’m saying that it would all have a lot more intuitive clarity if we understood tonic to define MODE, not “scale”, or “key”. C major and A minor, for example, rather than being thought of as two different scales and two different keys, are better understood as the SAME key (the “white notes” key), of the SAME scale (the diatonic scale), but perceived in two different modes of that scale, each defined by their respective tonics. The semantics are what makes it muddled, because different terms are used to mean the same thing in different contexts, while conversely the same term is used to mean different things in different contexts.
so just to wrap things up, if i play a melody in the key of G major, but solo over it with B Phrygian that makes it diatonic?
Kind of .. both the G major and B Phyrgian scale are diatonic, and totally related in that B Phrygian is the related Phyrgian mode to G Major. What makes them diatonic is the composition of 5 tones and 2 semitones. Let me know if that answers the question or if I've missed the point let me know and I'll have another go :) Apologies for late reply I didn't get the comment notification.
Hello Simon.
I Will like to know the name of the software you used in this video.
Thank you
Hi .. sorry for really really late reply .. your comment was marked as likely spam and I missed it. I use Windows Whiteboard for the drawing content and Musescore for the score examples. The version in the video is probably version 2. Version 3 is out now which has a bundle of quality of life improvements.
@@simonrigby2776 Thanks a lot
I learned a lot from this, thanks! Could you make a video going further in depth about modes?
Great stuff .. glad it was useful .. absolutely. Gives me a project for this week. Thanks for the suggestion.
@PWRZ I saw a comment on the scales video but it doesn't appear to be there anymore. Did you remove it or is RUclips playing up?
@@simonrigby2776 I removed it! It was a question about sharps, I found the answer shortly after then felt it was a dumb question 😂
@@p4nd4mnium haha .. no worries .. no dumb questions mate .. :) Started work on the Modes video .. should be done in next day or two
Thx
In My Music I got 8 Letters in the Music Alphabet (A B C D E F G H) Then also starts all over at A
T T S T T T T S
C Major: C D E F G H A B C
Heptatonic Scales:
Major: C D E F G H A C
Promotheus: C D E F G A B C
Diatonic: C D E F G H B C
would not all scales reflect a diatonic scale ie. would harmonic minor be A- Bdim. C+ D- E- F#dim. G#dim. ???
In essence yes, although the example you've given is actually the A melodic minor scale. In the case of the harmonic minor you can form triads off the steps of the scale but the scale itself is not diatonic as it has a minor 3rd (or 3 semitone) interval in it. BUT, I have seen chords formed on the steps of any scale referred to as diatonic triads. It's not strictly correct although common enough usage now and we understand what is meant by diatonic triads. If I see this term I generally assume the writer meant "triads formed off the steps of the scale", whether the source scale is diatonic or not.
Just to square the circle, the chords off of the A harmonic minor would be Am - Bdim - C+ - Dm - E - F - G#dim
Hope that helps :)
@@simonrigby2776 thankyou
That's cool and all, but WHY does a scale with 5 tones and 2 halftones sound perfect/complete to the human ear? It doesn't make sense. It seems so arbitrary.
hey .. I think to a degree part of that will have to do with 'cultural' familiarity. Someone who grew up in a completely different cultural/musical context might not hear it the same way.
Even taking some of the diatonic modes (the Lochrian for example) can sound a little 'unbalanced'.
I'd argue that there are scales that aren't diatonic that are actually more readily accessible in the ear. The pentatonic scales being a great example.
Not sure if that helps .. but just my take on it :)
Is it diatonic because I wanted to die and needed a G n T after watching this video?
t t t t t s s
is this a diatonic scale?
Technically yes
@ Hi .. ok apologies if I've replied incorrectly there. That may be the case. I was always of the impression it was just 5 tones and 2 semitones regardless of order from my Uni days. Let me double check and get back to you.
@@simonrigby2776
Don't worry, i just wanted to let you know about it, since nobody seems to know what's the real answer, myself included.
Thank you !!