Your reasoning for the noisy lifters is actually incorrect. However, your solution is correct. HLA's get noisy when the collapse due to the check valve not holding the oil in the lifter. When you remove the cams and press on the lifters, the ones that don't move are the good ones. The ones that do move are the ones making noise. When you disassemble the lifters, spray off the check valve really well. The ball not sitting flush against the seat is causing the lifters to collapse.Cleaning that seat will allow the ball to sit flush and will keep the oil inside the lifter. Also, once reassembled, remove your fuel pump fuse and crank the motor over for 5 seconds at least 5 times. This will pump the lifters back up before starting the motor.
Agreed. Of course it's going to move up and down after cleaning - there's no oil in the lifter. Lifter lash should be checked as follows - "Run engine until operating temperature is reached (coolant temperature gauge at normal operating temp). Increase engine speed to approx 2500 rpm for 2 mins. If tappets are are still noisy, locate defective tapet as follows: Remove cylinder head cover. Rotate crankshaft clockwise until cam of tappet to be checked is pointing upward. Press down on tappet with wooden or plastic wedge. If free travel is excess of 0.1 mm is felt, replace tappet." This assures that the tappet is warmed up and should have been filled with oil (and solid). If it's not and there's movement, then it gets replaced.
TIP: During reassembly of lifter AFTER THOROUGH CLEANING, I apply a good dose of Petroleum Jelly or Assembly Lube. Doing so keeps lifter parts lubricated long enough to PREVENT BINDING of checkball and small piston during initial engine start procedure when oil pressure is not present. It also helps in QUICKER pressurizing of oil by DISPLACING AIR trapped inside the lifter.
A good lifter will hold oil until you compress it in a vise, or take it apart. Your "stuck" lifters are staying pumped up, which is good. A collapsed lifter you would be able to move with your finger. The check valve holds the oil in the lifter to prevent it from bleeding off. As soon as you start that engine the lifters will pump up creating zero lash. If you would pull that thing apart again, you would see nothing changed. You would not be able to push them down.
thanks for clerification. its silent now. So what you're saying is they are one-way check valves. There is some dampening and bypass for constant adjustment (or the motor would loose compression as soon as oil pressure hit the lifters, the stuck lifters need to be cleaned out to prevent the valve from staying closed completely, That would be much worse than any noisy lifters, and causing it to burn. The noisy ones are from collapsed lifters that can't stay pumped up when oil pressure is introduced.
Probably already been mentioned but you HAVE to clean the little ball bearing and its seat as that is where the ticking comes from - cotton buds are the go. Half fill the lifters with oil before putting them back in so the cam lobes can compress them when the cam is put back on. They will tick loudly for a little while before they fill with oil to the point where the lobes are at the correct clearance.
@@laszlohorvath1540 You have to hit them against a block of hardwood really hard to make the little plunger come out. I made a piece of wood with a indented hole cut out to hold the lifter in place so you can swing it against the block with a lot more force and you won't injure your arm tendons like I did. Much, much easier way to do it, especially with stubborn ones.
I'm a 35 year plus certified mechanic. In my opinion if your going to take the thing apart put new just saying. Do it once do it right. Plus if your going to reassemble the lifter after cleaning you might want to reassemble with fresh clean oil.
+TheYnnad77 If you are a 35 year plus certified mechanic then you would know most people don't want to spend money on new parts for an old car if they don't need to. He is doing it for his sister so time is not an issue like in a shop where you would not want to be stuck cleaning old lifters.
I understand I just work on the principle of not seeing the job come back. so if you have I to open just do it. so this way its guaranteed not to have to be opened again. nobody wants to spend money silly.
@@TheYnnad77 looking at this from both perspectives you are both right but here's the thing, 35 years plus experience as a mechanic have you become more of a fitter? This tho may be the better solution for customers however this video is more of a home mechanic of stripping and repairing parts which is far more interesting and rewarding than replacing the parts if it can be done, even if his understanding of how exactly the part works seems limited, I'm not hating on either person here but you can't push commercial opinions upon a hobbyist
These lifters are the same\very similar to Nissan RB\VG lifters for those interested. Instead of yanking the lifter out of the bucket with plyers though, I just slap the lifter on the table pretty hard and they'll come out :)
they should compress with oil because there is a hole on the side that would relieve pressure. They are stuck because of dirt build up on the moving parts. they are machined at very tight tolerances.
Cleaning is always good, But these parts move in 3-dimensions. So always polish to a mirror finish if you have access to the lifters(and rods) and always refill with clean oil. I polish with Blue Magic(R) or Mothers(R) hand polishing creams and the results are always impressive. Polish the lifter socket too, but avoid getting debris in the the oil channels. Lifters without oil in them will wear quicker. A Bad lifter will not hold oil and is identifiable by being fully compressible(i.e. full of air). FYI: Lifters should NEVER be fully compressible as shown in this video. The job of the lifter is to push the rod below it so your engine can work properly. Nice video thanks for sharing. VDub Love from Chicago...
The engine running fills the lifters with oil and they get hard, you take them apart all the oil is lost and they are soft. Run the engine and check again they will be hard unless they bleed down
Lifters are going to be difficult to compress once they fill with oil, brand new or old. Once you have cleaned them, you are only compressing air and that's why you have a lot of travel. Run the engine a few minutes and they will stiffen again.
Question… shouldn’t it still compress because it’s out of the engine and the oil should just squirt out? I thought a stuck tappet would be a blocked oil channel? Can someone correct me please
@@TheHooolagon no because there is a check valve in it that keeps it from draining out when the engine is not running, otherwise you’d have a lot of noise every time you started the car until the pressure built up and extended them.
+diesel mercedes Umm. the ones you can't compress are stuck/loaded with oil. The one he cleaned move freely due to being empty on oil. But once it warms up and is being pumped again with oil it will become rock solid and perform it's job without ticking...
+Carlos S And until then the followers will be slamming into the cam lobes and maybe break something. I've never seen a manufacturers service manual not have something to say about making sure hydraulic adjusters are full of oil BEFORE you start the engine. This video is full of bad advice.
+ladamyre1 It makes the loading time less, making the lobes slap less against it. Some car manufactures (at least mine) suggest filling and leaving it over night in oil before installing. My car used to due this, it ticked all the time after a cold start and after not using it for long periods. They were full of oil residue. A extensive clean up was made, a lot of crude was removed. That ensures once it's full it won't lose pressure nor oil after sitting a long time shut off. Now I use good oil with a nice filter with a no drain anti-back valve made of silicon to ensure startups are always quite and the engine is still primed of oil. Dirty or stuck lifters (as in the video, which you can compress manually) do not close the check ball completely leading to pressure loss. These are major strain items and should be serviced or changed (look online prices for you car, they are extremely expensive!) Also, check for hydraulic lifters cleaning. Hope this helps :)
Carlos S I'm a retired ASE Master Tech and ended my career with GM dealerships. My best advice about all automotive fluids? Change them frequently, more often than the manufacturers suggest. Remember, they have no interest in your car lasting past the warranty period. Engine oil - 2500 miles. ATF - 30,000 miles and do a line flush, that filter never has to be replaced. Coolant - drain and replace 2 gallons (50/50) every year. Do not use "flushes", they can hurt the existing coolant you can't get out. Thermostat while I'm here - replace every 50,000 miles. Do these things and it may go 300,000 miles before you have a major problem. I've seen it many times in my career.
when installing the lifter in its socket on the cylinder top, does the direction of the lifter's hole make a difference? Or you can place at any rotational angle?
before installing hold it under thin oil and squeeze it with the little hole on the side pointing up and you squeeze it so often until no more air bubbles are comming out of the hole, than it is full of oil and than you install it.
i first did these hydraulic lifters in 1992 in a mk4 ford escort where the owner never serviced his car and the oil emulsified (thick oil like grease ) black death i took them out soaked them in diesel then worked the piston in and out till free, then in a bath of oil and flushed the diesel out then in fresh oil and pre primed them. when placed back in the engine no noise sounded sweet,but i have seen a few vids and i will clean them stripped down just to make sure.
Obviously the "old" ones dont move since they are filled with oil and the ones you have cleaned are bouncy because they are empty. Has nothing to do with the cleanliness of them
its been sitting, waiting for the next upgrades. Need, to take out the welded diff and install a lsd. then convert to z31 ecu and tune. then get hy35w turbo and raise the boost to get 350-400 wheel hp.
It seems you did't understand how these lifters work (judging by your pushing on top of them method...). The lifters that don't move are filled with oil, that's why they are stiff.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, you sound like what we used to call a shadetree mechanic. This video is just full of bad advice as well as mistaken diagnosis. What you've done to cure your problem is clean out those check valves. A good lash adjuster would have no spongyness at all when your cams are installed, indicating the check valves are holding the lash adjustment. When you took the cams off, those lifters sucked up some air and THAT'S why they had some spongyness to them. Putting in a clean, EMPTY hydraulic adjuster indicates only that it is empty. The extra movement says nothing about anything being fixed. Also, in doing so, you put the thing back together wrong... It's bad practice to put empty lifters in an engine. Once the engine starts it will take a few more seconds to fill them with oil and the followers will be slamming into the lobes on the camshaft until then. You might benefit from going to a school, or reading up some more on hydraulic valve adjusters and lifters. Clearly you don't understand how they work.
Smerk a Berl? The ones that collapse are not holding pressure. Clean the check valves and just install them. I used 0w20 or 0w40 synthetic oil to help clean up and get pressure built up quickly. If u have it apart, why not just buy a set of new ones and use synthetic from now on and never worry about it. ;-p
if you replace the buckets(lifter, lash adjuster) make sure you check tos ee if they need to be broken in, sometimes you need to replace the cam with new lifter's for the break in.
it seems to me that the check walve ball seat in the small piston needs to be cleaned , you say in this video that the small piston should not be taken apart, so that is wrong l guess. l just saw a video about that. it is taken apart to clean the valve ball seat.
well if you can put it back together witghout damage, go for it. this was mostly to get people comfortable with doing the job if they wanted to try without spending money.
Can bad lifters cause Rich Condition and hesitate on low rev (1000to3500) ??? I get no codes, but it is running rich and there is a lot of rattling with cold engine, also popping sound from exhaust like backfire, not loud but present. No vacuum leaks as far as i can see nor hear. (Curze 1.8 Petrol)
i just got new lifters for my Capri because they were all inconsistent whether you could move the plunger. i thought the plunger was supposed to be so tight that you could not move it with your finger. the new lifters were tight until i removed them because i forgot to hit them with engine lube. i never ran the engine but now they are loose enough that my fingers can pump them. are they defective or is this normal; do they need to pump themselves back up with oil after the cam compressed them?
When i did the valve seal replacement i notice all my hydraulics were hard doesnt even move does that mean that it stuck and mines lools like its drippin oil on the piston head on number 2 cylinder even with new seals was thinking it might be causr for stuck hydraulic lifter
It means your car is fine. I meant to say the loose ones were collapsed. If you have oil on there, usually it's from leaking spark plug tube seal when you crack open the plug, it drains in the cylinder.
Looks like i got a leak somewhere between head cuz the piston head on 2 cylinder always had oil in it .. no there isnt any huge leak in spark plug hole
you will win I have a Hyundai Elantra 1.8 engine, the problem is like this. In the morning, when I start the engine, it makes a noise. When it warms up, the engine does not make a sound. What could be the problem?
Use oem filter, and change both oil control actuators. If that doest work, you need a new chain and tensioner. They wear out faster if oil is not changed often and cheap oil is used.
i realized my mistake a few moments after uploading. I should know better, but i was exhausted after working likely a 12 hour shift and my brain was toast. Thanks for clarifying.
I have a pretty clean engine and the HLA cleanup I performed (which was done thoroughly) only fixed the tick for about 500 miles. experimented with different oils etc, still ticking away so I have ordered new ones for around $50/full set. Lets will see if this finally fixes the issue for a while
Movement of the lifter is not an indication of anything. The cleaned/new lifter moves more because it has little or no oil in it. The old lifter moves a small amount because it has enough oil in it to remove the lash between it and the installed CAM. When you remove the CAM, air replaces the amount the lifter was "adjusting". This doesn't mean cleaning won't fox it, it may. The FSM tells you how to check a lifter....
Seconded. In fact the check procedure is to bring engine to operating temp then attempt to depress the lifters. Any lifter that moves at all are bad. This is because the check valve is leaking allowing oil to escape rendering the hydraulic adjustment faulty. Nice cleaning video nonetheless.
hi mate and thanks for inspiring me to come up with a way ease my sticking lifters without taking the camshaft off and replacing them all. I took off the rocker cover and poured liqui moly lifter clean over them and down the oilways then turned the engine over for a few seconds without starting it. I left it a few days then started it , let it warm up then held it on 3000rpm for 4mins, now sounds sweet as a nut. thanks again
samphireseastoves next time, just pour the cleaner in crank case, start engine and drive it normally. it will clean out the lifters better that way. glad it worked.
I will be replacing bucket style hydraulic lifters in the next few weeks , I plan to lubricate the outside of them for the install , fit the camshafts , new timing belt etc. then crank the engine without spark plugs which should prime the lifters with oil which I can check in situ before re-installing the rocker cover , spark plugs and running the engine . Anything wrong with that approach ?
Thanks for the video, my mechanic just recommended replacing the hydro. valve lifters to remedy the ticking sound on my son's car. (2013 Hyundai Elantra, 90K miles) At least I now understand what he is recommending and how it might help. Also, if the charge seems reasonable.
i have the ticking sound its hyundai accent mc and the previous owner wasnt always on time with oil change intervals i using 15w-50 now i will use 5-40 and will hydraulic lifter additive liqui moly i hope i solve the problem
soo for this method to work and just throw them back in you have to have hydraulic lash adjuster/ lifters? my 1990 has bad tick and imma be ripping her apart tomorrow but i dont think it will have the hydraulic ones cause they are probably stock
Thanks for the video. I am rebuilding a Kia Rio, and noticed that all the lifters were hard as a rock. But I could not remove the pistons like you described, no matter how much I pried. They don't have the ledge on the piston like you described - it is tapered all the way, so it is harder to grab. Also, a guy at my auto machine shop says these lifters should be never disassembled. What are your thoughts on that?
I usually try the old school way first. Add a Qt of automatic trans fluid to the oil and let the car warm up. Do a few cycles like that then change the oil. It's never let me down yet. Lots of detergents in ATF.
Jeff Greenfield good tip, but if you have the valve covers off, while doing a timing belt, might as well. the atf doesnt get the gunk out, but it can get it cleaned up a bit. but atf does have a tendency to scrape the bearings sometimes... idk. up to you lol
Compared to engines, they are pristine. They have no combustion byproducts to disperse and therefore have comparatively low additive packages. Just see the following two examples: ATF VOA: www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1169896 Typical Engine Oil VOA: www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3654270/Castrol_Edge_Extended_Performa#Post3654270 The ATF has less than 1/10 the Calcium and less than 1/4 the Boron (the two main detergents). This isn't even a High Mileage or Diesel engine oil, both of which contain even more detergents. The ATF in the engine oil thing is a myth that has persisted for a while with no real backing. ATF is typically thinner than most engine oils, so the reduced viscosity may have some effect on engine noise, but that's about it.
+BrotherMichigan I may be wasting my time since you already think you know everything, but I'll try. BTW I am a retired ASE Master Technician and I ended my career as an automatic transmission specialist. I found and discovered fixes the engineers couldn't find and my rebuilt AT's NEVER came back. I've been trained (back in '92) by GM at the GM Training Center in Atlanta by Dot Huff, one of the best automatic transmission experts I've ever met; she could tell you what one part was malfunctioning of the two thousand or so parts in a 440T4, just by driving it. I don't know or care what "Bob" says about detergent additives but I do know that ATF is very good at cleaning things, use it on your grubby hands just once and you'll see what I mean. Whether it has a detergent you'll find in oils or not, it has a detergent quality to it BY DESIGN. Automatic transmissions get very hot, much hotter than engines and the base oil in ATF is mineral oil, it tends to turn into varnish from the heat alone. Do you know why it's red? The red color is a temperature sensitive dye that degrades over time by heat. The hooter it gets, the faster it turns brown. Back to this "detergent" controversy. I've used ATF to clean out lifters many times and it works. I've also used it to clean fuel injectors; one quart in ten gallons of gas and they get misty again, just like new. Continue to write stuff you've read or heard because it sounds good and you only let those of us with EXPERIENCE know what you really are. A half-smart know-it-all who really doesn't know what he's talking about.
subtledriver i have a nissan 300zx vg30de and it has an annoying lifter tick esp on cold start up and around 32oo rpms. will be doing this surgery on her soon. 24 lifters in all. so the lifter tick was completely gone after this cleaning????
yes all the noise was gone, at first startup oil had to work its way back into the cam followers after that they were quiet. dirt and carbon caused oil to get stuck inside, hydro-locking them.
subtledriver Hey, Mabey next time you should spin the engine up by hand and later crank it with the ignition and injection off. That way you get oil pressure build up ;) Greetings,
Thank you thank you thank you. My car was sitting for a year and there was a tick and I didn't think anything of it till I had to replace valves and it just wasent right. I was about to buy new ones and I found your video. I cant thank you enough 🥳🙏
Hahaha. Buddy. Lifters wich are stiff are good one. On the other hand lifters who moves are the bad one. What I can see is that engine didn't get regular oil change. You can see that in soot deposit inside that lifter.I have 1 question! How long it took for that engine to get quiet after you refire it on those empty lifters!?
on the stuck ones, are those cylinders even creating any power? Also, I assume this means that it's not an interference engine since those valves are stuck open?
richardmg9 the valves are actually opening less than they should when you have bad lifter tick. instead of pushing the valve all the way open, the cam is compressing the lifter a bit. so you'll lose a bit of power. if the valves were stuck open, the motor wouldnt even run.
They should hold pressure over night. If its squishy after running the engine for 5 minutes then clean or replace. Should be hard as a rock. All of them
Some videos show slamming lifted open end against wood to disassemble. That didn't work for me, neither did grabbing with needle nose vice grip like this video. Maybe mine are more stubborn. Mine are for 01 Kia rio, 1.5L. I even tried soaking in an ultrasound with degreaser. Tons of carbon in the head that I cleaned out. I wish I would have bought new ones as now I have to do the job over. I put them back in thinking Marvel mystery oil would coax them back with engine running. No luck. The Kia really sucks for lack of space to work. I dread it but will do it. My hands are raw.
Hi. This video came at just the right time for me because I am driving Opel Meriva 2004 model. This car is giving me a headache as it has a nasty ticking noise under the hood. I replaced the lifters but the results are still the same. What is deteriorating the prblm is that this noise is disturbing the knock sensor when I am driving at highway speed, bcos ECU retards timing and reduces the car speed. When I diagnose the car with Opcom, I get the following results: knock signal circuit not present. I wish I cud hv also watched this video bfo I cud buy new lifters. Do I have to clean the lifters the same way as u did bcos my car is using the same lifters? Pls advise me on this.
Great video! I am thinking about getting a miata. I test drove one with 57k miles that had a ticking. Im thinking this might be the problem. How long did it take you to do all 16? is there a lot of engine removal and work for the entire process? I see you took out the over head cams.
Bro thank you so much for this video I been looking all over RUclips and I need to change my lifters for me e63 because the person before did not do his frequent oil changes like needed
I would reccomend replacing them with new ones if you can afford it, i used 0w40 synthetic for first oil change to get things cleaned up. after that, 5w30 synthetic. the reason these guys get clogged is due to carbon build up from going too long on oil changes and lack of good air-fuel ratio or missfire.
This would piss me off if this were the same as the Pontiac 94 gtp. 3.4l quad cam had the same looking lifters. I ended up selling the car cause it needed new lifters. (24 @22 bucks each) fuck lol I let them sit for days in mystery oil and reinstalled to only have the same lifter chatter.
"that's what she said" at 7:00, lol however as pointed out, your explanation is flawed - you want SOLID lifters, not squishy ones. the idea is to fix the check-ball seal. if your fix actually works, it's probably coincidental with the fact you put a nice clean oil charge in the engine and possibly flushed some debris out of the lifter cavity that was/may be entering that check-ball interface.
It goes down more because of the oil that got dumped out oil is what keeps it from going down like that. If it moved like ones you drained it would be a leaky one and that would be the problem. This does nothing. The oil keeps it stiff,Hydraulic self adjustable lifters.
Squishy means they have air in them. They could be good or bad. Hard means they have oil in them and no air. Those are most likely good. Some really bad info here. Install them, run the car intermittently and if there is still noise, measure clearance and replace the ones with excessive clearance. So much bad info on YT it's borderline comedy.
squishy means they are clear clean not blocked solid means oil not circulating and blocked cannot adjust propperley. clean then and they are soft just like when you buy replacements until they refill and adjust like they should.
@@moz6616 If what you say is true everyone that starts their engine it would rattle like hell until they filled with oil. When a person replaces lifters you are suppose to put them in oil to fill them up with oil so it doesn't make noise, read a repair manual
This is a nonsense : the lifters MUST be "locked" - impossible to push down. When they move, the valve is leaking oil or/end the engine has low oil pressure / worn lifter housing.
Your reasoning for the noisy lifters is actually incorrect. However, your solution is correct. HLA's get noisy when the collapse due to the check valve not holding the oil in the lifter. When you remove the cams and press on the lifters, the ones that don't move are the good ones. The ones that do move are the ones making noise. When you disassemble the lifters, spray off the check valve really well. The ball not sitting flush against the seat is causing the lifters to collapse.Cleaning that seat will allow the ball to sit flush and will keep the oil inside the lifter.
Also, once reassembled, remove your fuel pump fuse and crank the motor over for 5 seconds at least 5 times. This will pump the lifters back up before starting the motor.
When you bleed a lash adjuster it is supposed to be like a trigger when you press it with your fingers. Not supposed to be unloveable.
Agreed. Of course it's going to move up and down after cleaning - there's no oil in the lifter. Lifter lash should be checked as follows - "Run engine until operating temperature is reached (coolant temperature gauge at normal operating temp). Increase engine speed to approx 2500 rpm for 2 mins. If tappets are are still noisy, locate defective tapet as follows: Remove cylinder head cover. Rotate crankshaft clockwise until cam of tappet to be checked is pointing upward. Press down on tappet with wooden or plastic wedge. If free travel is excess of 0.1 mm is felt, replace tappet." This assures that the tappet is warmed up and should have been filled with oil (and solid). If it's not and there's movement, then it gets replaced.
TIP: During reassembly of lifter AFTER THOROUGH CLEANING, I apply a good dose of Petroleum Jelly or Assembly Lube. Doing so keeps lifter parts lubricated long enough to PREVENT BINDING of checkball and small piston during initial engine start procedure when oil pressure is not present. It also helps in QUICKER pressurizing of oil by DISPLACING AIR trapped inside the lifter.
A good lifter will hold oil until you compress it in a vise, or take it apart. Your "stuck" lifters are staying pumped up, which is good. A collapsed lifter you would be able to move with your finger. The check valve holds the oil in the lifter to prevent it from bleeding off. As soon as you start that engine the lifters will pump up creating zero lash. If you would pull that thing apart again, you would see nothing changed. You would not be able to push them down.
thanks for clerification. its silent now. So what you're saying is they are one-way check valves. There is some dampening and bypass for constant adjustment (or the motor would loose compression as soon as oil pressure hit the lifters, the stuck lifters need to be cleaned out to prevent the valve from staying closed completely, That would be much worse than any noisy lifters, and causing it to burn. The noisy ones are from collapsed lifters that can't stay pumped up when oil pressure is introduced.
Probably already been mentioned but you HAVE to clean the little ball bearing and its seat as that is where the ticking comes from - cotton buds are the go. Half fill the lifters with oil before putting them back in so the cam lobes can compress them when the cam is put back on. They will tick loudly for a little while before they fill with oil to the point where the lobes are at the correct clearance.
Is there any special tool to disassemble it ? with normal plier I failed...
@@laszlohorvath1540 You have to hit them against a block of hardwood really hard to make the little plunger come out. I made a piece of wood with a indented hole cut out to hold the lifter in place so you can swing it against the block with a lot more force and you won't injure your arm tendons like I did. Much, much easier way to do it, especially with stubborn ones.
Thank you to the presenter, as well as to the people who commented below. Together they have provided some very useful info.
I'm a 35 year plus certified mechanic. In my opinion if your going to take the thing apart put new just saying. Do it once do it right. Plus if your going to reassemble the lifter after cleaning you might want to reassemble with fresh clean oil.
+TheYnnad77 If you are a 35 year plus certified mechanic then you would know most people don't want to spend money on new parts for an old car if they don't need to. He is doing it for his sister so time is not an issue like in a shop where you would not want to be stuck cleaning old lifters.
I understand I just work on the principle of not seeing the job come back. so if you have I to open just do it. so this way its guaranteed not to have to be opened again. nobody wants to spend money silly.
TheYnnad77 Ya that makes cents, reading back on this comment I think I sounds a little like a dick. Keep up the good work!
@@TheYnnad77 looking at this from both perspectives you are both right but here's the thing, 35 years plus experience as a mechanic have you become more of a fitter? This tho may be the better solution for customers however this video is more of a home mechanic of stripping and repairing parts which is far more interesting and rewarding than replacing the parts if it can be done, even if his understanding of how exactly the part works seems limited, I'm not hating on either person here but you can't push commercial opinions upon a hobbyist
These lifters are the same\very similar to Nissan RB\VG lifters for those interested.
Instead of yanking the lifter out of the bucket with plyers though, I just slap the lifter on the table pretty hard and they'll come out :)
they should compress with oil because there is a hole on the side that would relieve pressure. They are stuck because of dirt build up on the moving parts. they are machined at very tight tolerances.
Agreed lots of nasty gunk stopping it from compressing
@@mileskiphuth331 I wrote this wrong. It has a valve that holds pressure. It gets gummed and let's it leak.
Cleaning is always good, But these parts move in 3-dimensions. So always polish to a mirror finish if you have access to the lifters(and rods) and always refill with clean oil. I polish with Blue Magic(R) or Mothers(R) hand polishing creams and the results are always impressive. Polish the lifter socket too, but avoid getting debris in the the oil channels. Lifters without oil in them will wear quicker. A Bad lifter will not hold oil and is identifiable by being fully compressible(i.e. full of air). FYI: Lifters should NEVER be fully compressible as shown in this video. The job of the lifter is to push the rod below it so your engine can work properly. Nice video thanks for sharing.
VDub Love from Chicago...
Hi, could I use silver polish as well ?
I heard that refilling the lifters isn't good, because if they are too full, that could cause motor damage. ?
The engine running fills the lifters with oil and they get hard, you take them apart all the oil is lost and they are soft. Run the engine and check again they will be hard unless they bleed down
Lifters are going to be difficult to compress once they fill with oil, brand new or old. Once you have cleaned them, you are only compressing air and that's why you have a lot of travel. Run the engine a few minutes and they will stiffen again.
Hilarious barely moves its because it has oil pressure in it like it's suppose to
Question… shouldn’t it still compress because it’s out of the engine and the oil should just squirt out? I thought a stuck tappet would be a blocked oil channel? Can someone correct me please
@@TheHooolagon no because there is a check valve in it that keeps it from draining out when the engine is not running, otherwise you’d have a lot of noise every time you started the car until the pressure built up and extended them.
@@jmkehayias1 appreciate it thank you, so a badly overheated engine would ruin this type of a bucket lifter… thanks
!!!!!!The Lifters which you can compress are BAD ones, the Lifters which are holding are GOOD ones!!!!!!!!
diesel mercedes I agree!
+diesel mercedes Umm. the ones you can't compress are stuck/loaded with oil. The one he cleaned move freely due to being empty on oil. But once it warms up and is being pumped again with oil it will become rock solid and perform it's job without ticking...
+Carlos S And until then the followers will be slamming into the cam lobes and maybe break something. I've never seen a manufacturers service manual not have something to say about making sure hydraulic adjusters are full of oil BEFORE you start the engine.
This video is full of bad advice.
+ladamyre1 It makes the loading time less, making the lobes slap less against it. Some car manufactures (at least mine) suggest filling and leaving it over night in oil before installing. My car used to due this, it ticked all the time after a cold start and after not using it for long periods. They were full of oil residue. A extensive clean up was made, a lot of crude was removed. That ensures once it's full it won't lose pressure nor oil after sitting a long time shut off. Now I use good oil with a nice filter with a no drain anti-back valve made of silicon to ensure startups are always quite and the engine is still primed of oil. Dirty or stuck lifters (as in the video, which you can compress manually) do not close the check ball completely leading to pressure loss. These are major strain items and should be serviced or changed (look online prices for you car, they are extremely expensive!) Also, check for hydraulic lifters cleaning. Hope this helps :)
Carlos S
I'm a retired ASE Master Tech and ended my career with GM dealerships. My best advice about all automotive fluids? Change them frequently, more often than the manufacturers suggest. Remember, they have no interest in your car lasting past the warranty period.
Engine oil - 2500 miles.
ATF - 30,000 miles and do a line flush, that filter never has to be replaced.
Coolant - drain and replace 2 gallons (50/50) every year. Do not use "flushes", they can hurt the existing coolant you can't get out. Thermostat while I'm here - replace every 50,000 miles.
Do these things and it may go 300,000 miles before you have a major problem. I've seen it many times in my career.
when installing the lifter in its socket on the cylinder top, does the direction of the lifter's hole make a difference? Or you can place at any rotational angle?
before installing hold it under thin oil and squeeze it with the little hole on the side pointing up and you squeeze it so often until no more air bubbles are comming out of the hole, than it is full of oil and than you install it.
Sounds like legit info! I'll have to try this sometime!
i first did these hydraulic lifters in 1992 in a mk4 ford escort where the owner never serviced his car and the oil emulsified (thick oil like grease ) black death i took them out soaked them in diesel then worked the piston in and out till free, then in a bath of oil and flushed the diesel out then in fresh oil and pre primed them. when placed back in the engine no noise sounded sweet,but i have seen a few vids and i will clean them stripped down just to make sure.
Awesome! Thanks for the comment! This worked for me! But my collapsed/good description was backwards lol.
Tip... give it a real good bath in oil before putting lifter back together to get rid of excess cleaner.
+David Bilec i go one step beyond that and actually put them together while submerged in oil, then leave overnight in a bucket of oil.
To clean 16 of these lifters takes a long time, good luck to all with that operation.
Obviously the "old" ones dont move since they are filled with oil and the ones you have cleaned are bouncy because they are empty. Has nothing to do with the cleanliness of them
nuggex there is a check valve in the lifter, if its dirty, it wont hold pressure ;-p
thanks for the comment.
True that.
+subtledriver well there holding thats why there not moving
its been sitting, waiting for the next upgrades. Need, to take out the welded diff and install a lsd.
then convert to z31 ecu and tune. then get hy35w turbo and raise the boost to get 350-400 wheel hp.
It seems you did't understand how these lifters work (judging by your pushing on top of them method...).
The lifters that don't move are filled with oil, that's why they are stiff.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, you sound like what we used to call a shadetree mechanic. This video is just full of bad advice as well as mistaken diagnosis.
What you've done to cure your problem is clean out those check valves. A good lash adjuster would have no spongyness at all when your cams are installed, indicating the check valves are holding the lash adjustment. When you took the cams off, those lifters sucked up some air and THAT'S why they had some spongyness to them.
Putting in a clean, EMPTY hydraulic adjuster indicates only that it is empty. The extra movement says nothing about anything being fixed. Also, in doing so, you put the thing back together wrong...
It's bad practice to put empty lifters in an engine. Once the engine starts it will take a few more seconds to fill them with oil and the followers will be slamming into the lobes on the camshaft until then.
You might benefit from going to a school, or reading up some more on hydraulic valve adjusters and lifters. Clearly you don't understand how they work.
I need help real badly, mine does this, how would i make sure i dont put an empty lifter in? How would i properly lubricate it with oil?
Smerk a Berl? The ones that collapse are not holding pressure. Clean the check valves and just install them. I used 0w20 or 0w40 synthetic oil to help clean up and get pressure built up quickly. If u have it apart, why not just buy a set of new ones and use synthetic from now on and never worry about it. ;-p
How much are new ones
Smerk a Berl? I did a quick search online, they are $90 shipped for a full set!
Wait, i have the NB with solid lifters
if you replace the buckets(lifter, lash adjuster) make sure you check tos ee if they need to be broken in, sometimes you need to replace the cam with new lifter's for the break in.
Aren't the "dirty" ones filled of oil, making it almost impossible to compress by thumb?
it seems to me that the check walve ball seat in the small piston needs to be cleaned , you say in this video that the small piston should not be taken apart, so that is wrong l guess. l just saw a video about that. it is taken apart to clean the valve ball seat.
well if you can put it back together witghout damage, go for it. this was mostly to get people comfortable with doing the job if they wanted to try without spending money.
Can bad lifters cause Rich Condition and hesitate on low rev (1000to3500) ???
I get no codes, but it is running rich and there is a lot of rattling with cold engine, also popping sound from exhaust like backfire, not loud but present. No vacuum leaks as far as i can see nor hear. (Curze 1.8 Petrol)
Did you ever find out what was causing it. My suv is having the same problems.
i just got new lifters for my Capri because they were all inconsistent whether you could move the plunger. i thought the plunger was supposed to be so tight that you could not move it with your finger.
the new lifters were tight until i removed them because i forgot to hit them with engine lube. i never ran the engine but now they are loose enough that my fingers can pump them.
are they defective or is this normal; do they need to pump themselves back up with oil after the cam compressed them?
When i did the valve seal replacement i notice all my hydraulics were hard doesnt even move does that mean that it stuck and mines lools like its drippin oil on the piston head on number 2 cylinder even with new seals was thinking it might be causr for stuck hydraulic lifter
It means your car is fine. I meant to say the loose ones were collapsed. If you have oil on there, usually it's from leaking spark plug tube seal when you crack open the plug, it drains in the cylinder.
Looks like i got a leak somewhere between head cuz the piston head on 2 cylinder always had oil in it .. no there isnt any huge leak in spark plug hole
no, they don't. You can just pop them in any spot and be ok. they tend to spin around too. wipe patterns are on solid rocker style lifters.
you will win I have a Hyundai Elantra 1.8 engine, the problem is like this. In the morning, when I start the engine, it makes a noise. When it warms up, the engine does not make a sound. What could be the problem?
Use oem filter, and change both oil control actuators. If that doest work, you need a new chain and tensioner. They wear out faster if oil is not changed often and cheap oil is used.
Knocking in the engine is caused by the fault of the chain or hydro compensator
Hydraulic Bucket over valve.. It replaced the old Bucket shim design.. So it should be hard to compress or it floats and makes noise...
i realized my mistake a few moments after uploading. I should know better, but i was exhausted after working likely a 12 hour shift and my brain was toast. Thanks for clarifying.
I have a pretty clean engine and the HLA cleanup I performed (which was done thoroughly) only fixed the tick for about 500 miles. experimented with different oils etc, still ticking away so I have ordered new ones for around $50/full set. Lets will see if this finally fixes the issue for a while
Update??
@@hunterwright386 HLA's never fixed it. Had to do valve springs and a bunch of top end work. Ended up being cheaper to just buy a new head.
@@kenwhiteproductions understood, thanks for the info.
Movement of the lifter is not an indication of anything. The cleaned/new lifter moves more because it has little or no oil in it. The old lifter moves a small amount because it has enough oil in it to remove the lash between it and the installed CAM. When you remove the CAM, air replaces the amount the lifter was "adjusting". This doesn't mean cleaning won't fox it, it may. The FSM tells you how to check a lifter....
you have a point there! thanks!
Seconded. In fact the check procedure is to bring engine to operating temp then attempt to depress the lifters. Any lifter that moves at all are bad. This is because the check valve is leaking allowing oil to escape rendering the hydraulic adjustment faulty. Nice cleaning video nonetheless.
hi mate and thanks for inspiring me to come up with a way ease my sticking lifters without taking the camshaft off and replacing them all. I took off the rocker cover and poured liqui moly lifter clean over them and down the oilways then turned the engine over for a few seconds without starting it. I left it a few days then started it , let it warm up then held it on 3000rpm for 4mins, now sounds sweet as a nut.
thanks again
samphireseastoves next time, just pour the cleaner in crank case, start engine and drive it normally. it will clean out the lifters better that way. glad it worked.
I will be replacing bucket style hydraulic lifters in the next few weeks , I plan to lubricate the outside of them for the install , fit the camshafts , new timing belt etc. then crank the engine without spark plugs which should prime the lifters with oil which I can check in situ before re-installing the rocker cover , spark plugs and running the engine . Anything wrong with that approach ?
Thanks for the video, my mechanic just recommended replacing the hydro. valve lifters to remedy the ticking sound on my son's car. (2013 Hyundai Elantra, 90K miles) At least I now understand what he is recommending and how it might help. Also, if the charge seems reasonable.
Nice video on what is inside a hydraulic lifter!
i have the ticking sound its hyundai accent mc and the previous owner wasnt always on time with oil change intervals
i using 15w-50
now i will use 5-40 and will hydraulic lifter additive liqui moly
i hope i solve the problem
That additive will most likely not do anything. But if it does fix the problem, post it here!
soo for this method to work and just throw them back in you have to have hydraulic lash adjuster/ lifters? my 1990 has bad tick and imma be ripping her apart tomorrow but i dont think it will have the hydraulic ones cause they are probably stock
dont u soak them in oil b4 instalation?
Thanks for the video. I am rebuilding a Kia Rio, and noticed that all the lifters were hard as a rock. But I could not remove the pistons like you described, no matter how much I pried. They don't have the ledge on the piston like you described - it is tapered all the way, so it is harder to grab. Also, a guy at my auto machine shop says these lifters should be never disassembled. What are your thoughts on that?
Never mind, I was able to eventually remove them. But it was not as easy as yours. I had to hold it on a bench vice and pull with a vice grip.
I am sorry for the trouble, but was high on fumes and got the collapsed/good lifter backwards.
Do me a solid if this helped, and follow me on instagram.
instagram.com/subtledriver/ @subtledriver
just to make sure I heard you right, you said brake cleaner at about 3:08 to clean them right?
anything that breaks down burnt and dirty oil.
I usually try the old school way first. Add a Qt of automatic trans fluid to the oil and let the car warm up. Do a few cycles like that then change the oil. It's never let me down yet. Lots of detergents in ATF.
Jeff Greenfield good tip, but if you have the valve covers off, while doing a timing belt, might as well. the atf doesnt get the gunk out, but it can get it cleaned up a bit. but atf does have a tendency to scrape the bearings sometimes... idk. up to you lol
+Jeff Greenfield There are almost NO detergents in ATF (confirmed by MANY VOAs). Why would it need them? ATs don't get dirty!
AT's are very dirty. Detergent is used to help float the clutch particles to the filter.
Compared to engines, they are pristine. They have no combustion byproducts to disperse and therefore have comparatively low additive packages. Just see the following two examples:
ATF VOA: www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1169896
Typical Engine Oil VOA: www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3654270/Castrol_Edge_Extended_Performa#Post3654270
The ATF has less than 1/10 the Calcium and less than 1/4 the Boron (the two main detergents). This isn't even a High Mileage or Diesel engine oil, both of which contain even more detergents. The ATF in the engine oil thing is a myth that has persisted for a while with no real backing. ATF is typically thinner than most engine oils, so the reduced viscosity may have some effect on engine noise, but that's about it.
+BrotherMichigan I may be wasting my time since you already think you know everything, but I'll try. BTW I am a retired ASE Master Technician and I ended my career as an automatic transmission specialist. I found and discovered fixes the engineers couldn't find and my rebuilt AT's NEVER came back.
I've been trained (back in '92) by GM at the GM Training Center in Atlanta by Dot Huff, one of the best automatic transmission experts I've ever met; she could tell you what one part was malfunctioning of the two thousand or so parts in a 440T4, just by driving it.
I don't know or care what "Bob" says about detergent additives but I do know that ATF is very good at cleaning things, use it on your grubby hands just once and you'll see what I mean. Whether it has a detergent you'll find in oils or not, it has a detergent quality to it BY DESIGN.
Automatic transmissions get very hot, much hotter than engines and the base oil in ATF is mineral oil, it tends to turn into varnish from the heat alone. Do you know why it's red? The red color is a temperature sensitive dye that degrades over time by heat. The hooter it gets, the faster it turns brown.
Back to this "detergent" controversy. I've used ATF to clean out lifters many times and it works. I've also used it to clean fuel injectors; one quart in ten gallons of gas and they get misty again, just like new.
Continue to write stuff you've read or heard because it sounds good and you only let those of us with EXPERIENCE know what you really are. A half-smart know-it-all who really doesn't know what he's talking about.
Does it have difference between inlets and exust in sizes or number
I heard you suppose to put some oil in the lifter before putting it back?
Possibly true, i didn't do that, and it was a littly noisy for the first few seconds, then the oil pressure built up and worked its way in.
You can not push them in because of the oil inside.
Well, its been 10k miles and they are still quiet. Been using full synthetic oil, and changing every 3k. Thanks!
subtledriver
i have a nissan 300zx vg30de and it has an annoying lifter tick esp on cold start up and around 32oo rpms. will be doing this surgery on her soon. 24 lifters in all.
so the lifter tick was completely gone after this cleaning????
yes all the noise was gone, at first startup oil had to work its way back into the cam followers after that they were quiet. dirt and carbon caused oil to get stuck inside, hydro-locking them.
subtledriver Hey, Mabey next time you should spin the engine up by hand and later crank it with the ignition and injection off. That way you get oil pressure build up ;)
Greetings,
i'd rather run the motor, no harm no foul. thanks
same lifter my fiat 500 use, I was looking to buy new ones, now I know what to do, thanks for the video, I am going to take it apart now.
Is this system in Hyundai Accent 2016 GDI engine
Thank you thank you thank you. My car was sitting for a year and there was a tick and I didn't think anything of it till I had to replace valves and it just wasent right. I was about to buy new ones and I found your video. I cant thank you enough 🥳🙏
finally someone with a good explanation,,, i guess same issue with vw jetta 00-04 knock lifters thumbs up
Hahaha. Buddy. Lifters wich are stiff are good one. On the other hand lifters who moves are the bad one. What I can see is that engine didn't get regular oil change. You can see that in soot deposit inside that lifter.I have 1 question! How long it took for that engine to get quiet after you refire it on those empty lifters!?
on the stuck ones, are those cylinders even creating any power? Also, I assume this means that it's not an interference engine since those valves are stuck open?
richardmg9 the valves are actually opening less than they should when you have bad lifter tick. instead of pushing the valve all the way open, the cam is compressing the lifter a bit. so you'll lose a bit of power.
if the valves were stuck open, the motor wouldnt even run.
I get your point. I experienced the same. It is really worth it to buy new ones rather than doing the job twice :(
They should hold pressure over night. If its squishy after running the engine for 5 minutes then clean or replace. Should be hard as a rock. All of them
ill try that on a volvo w same kind style lifter setup.
thanx a lot..some guy had told me those can not be cleaned
help i cant remove mine... ive tried everything hands.. etc... using the pliers it just slips... knocking on wood nothing happens ?
My 02 Accent # 2 exhaust valve wont open at times and other times it does ,any ideas?
Some videos show slamming lifted open end against wood to disassemble. That didn't work for me, neither did grabbing with needle nose vice grip like this video. Maybe mine are more stubborn. Mine are for 01 Kia rio, 1.5L. I even tried soaking in an ultrasound with degreaser. Tons of carbon in the head that I cleaned out. I wish I would have bought new ones as now I have to do the job over. I put them back in thinking Marvel mystery oil would coax them back with engine running. No luck. The Kia really sucks for lack of space to work. I dread it but will do it. My hands are raw.
Thank you very much bro for share this job,I have any question,before return put lifter in a place,dont put new oil inside lifters why? :)
Explain me please why you no charge of oil again after cleaned the lifters,thanks bro thanks for vid ;)
I wish i had the money to buy new ones! Thats the preferred way! Thanks for the comment!
what the...the lifter was supposed NOT to move when pressing on it
Thumbs up! I cleaned mine year ago, now they click again :)
I will buy new lifters this time.
Wow thank you it answered a question I just couldn't get my head around ie where's the hydraulic lifter .thanks again
i had to take the cams out, wasnt tooooo bad, but it takes a while. That miata prolly missed a few oil changes. i would avoid it.
Hi. This video came at just the right time for me because I am driving Opel Meriva 2004 model. This car is giving me a headache as it has a nasty ticking noise under the hood. I replaced the lifters but the results are still the same. What is deteriorating the prblm is that this noise is disturbing the knock sensor when I am driving at highway speed, bcos ECU retards timing and reduces the car speed. When I diagnose the car with Opcom, I get the following results: knock signal circuit not present. I wish I cud hv also watched this video bfo I cud buy new lifters. Do I have to clean the lifters the same way as u did bcos my car is using the same lifters? Pls advise me on this.
Do I wish I had seen this video before I rebuild my engine! Would have saved so much hassle
What happened?
is there's a difference from the intakes to the exhaust ones?
how many hours did it take to get to them?
how many miles on the car?
You should assemble it with alot of oil inside
What engine is that 1.6? BP?
Great video! I am thinking about getting a miata. I test drove one with 57k miles that had a ticking. Im thinking this might be the problem.
How long did it take you to do all 16? is there a lot of engine removal and work for the entire process? I see you took out the over head cams.
Bro thank you so much for this video I been looking all over RUclips and I need to change my lifters for me e63 because the person before did not do his frequent oil changes like needed
Sorry bro,no its better charge of oil the lifters before ?
Thanks and good job bro.
Thanks so much man i have a 91 and it has this problem will be fixing this weekend thanks
I would reccomend replacing them with new ones if you can afford it, i used 0w40 synthetic for first oil change to get things cleaned up. after that, 5w30 synthetic. the reason these guys get clogged is due to carbon build up from going too long on oil changes and lack of good air-fuel ratio or missfire.
This would piss me off if this were the same as the Pontiac 94 gtp. 3.4l quad cam had the same looking lifters. I ended up selling the car cause it needed new lifters. (24 @22 bucks each) fuck lol I let them sit for days in mystery oil and reinstalled to only have the same lifter chatter.
Nice video
thanks
Thanks for the video man - opening up the head on my '96 miata this coming weekend to rebuild.
U didn't refill it with oil
Wow ! If they bonus like that with oil in them then you have a problem !
Very nice ! : )
PUEDEN PONER LOS COMENTARIOS CON ALTERNATIVA EN EAPAÑOL PARA LOS QUE NO ENTENDEMOS.
Massive help! Thank you 👍
"that's what she said" at 7:00, lol
however as pointed out, your explanation is flawed - you want SOLID lifters, not squishy ones. the idea is to fix the check-ball seal. if your fix actually works, it's probably coincidental with the fact you put a nice clean oil charge in the engine and possibly flushed some debris out of the lifter cavity that was/may be entering that check-ball interface.
Pump it, PUMP IT! LOL
I need this done so badly
It goes down more because of the oil that got dumped out oil is what keeps it from going down like that. If it moved like ones you drained it would be a leaky one and that would be the problem. This does nothing. The oil keeps it stiff,Hydraulic self adjustable lifters.
Squishy means they have air in them. They could be good or bad. Hard means they have oil in them and no air. Those are most likely good. Some really bad info here. Install them, run the car intermittently and if there is still noise, measure clearance and replace the ones with excessive clearance.
So much bad info on YT it's borderline comedy.
squishy means they are clear clean not blocked solid means oil not circulating and blocked cannot adjust propperley. clean then and they are soft just like when you buy replacements until they refill and adjust like they should.
@@moz6616 If what you say is true everyone that starts their engine it would rattle like hell until they filled with oil. When a person replaces lifters you are suppose to put them in oil to fill them up with oil so it doesn't make noise, read a repair manual
they are supposed to be stiff. not squishy man.
This is a nonsense : the lifters MUST be "locked" - impossible to push down. When they move, the valve is leaking oil or/end the engine has low oil pressure / worn lifter housing.
Awesome video!! Good info, i have the same lifters in my 323 familia it has a bpt motor. Will be fixing this myself i think. Cheers!
Only easyer cause you you cleaned the oil out no hyd press
Thanks Mate . This video explained it all.
cheers
can i ask smtng?anyone to answer me?
You should charge for people to watch these videos because I feel like I'm LEARNING SO MUCH!!!
this is fantastic!
thanks for the comment!
good clear video. thanks
thank you for the video this is awesome!
not a good way to handle the tappets do not use any tools that will damage the parts.
miata dot net slash garage shash hla