Pathfinder 2e's AWESOME character creation + advancement (Rules Lawyer)
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Pathfinder Law School continues! Here is an overview of character creation, plus why I think Pathfinder 2e's approach to characters is great and what other systems can learn from it. This video ended up VERY long so I had to split it into two parts!
PATHFINDER LAW SCHOOL playlist: • Pathfinder Law School
0:00 Intro
2:51 Concept
4:21 Free rules, digital tools!
6:39 Ancestry
9:43 Background
10:40 Class
12:59 Don't forget 4 boosts! (+ Skills)
14:43 Equipment
16:11 Leveling up!
22:38 Outro
DROOG's character sheet! drive.google.com/file/d/19Cc6...
My older, more hands-on walkthrough of making a character: • Understand Character C...
DIGITAL RESOURCES / TOOLS
Archives of Nethys: 2e.aonprd.com/
Pathbuilder (also available on Google Play): pathbuilder2e.com/
Wanderer's Guide: wanderersguide.app/
Demiplane Nexus: app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathf...
Hero Lab Online: herolab.online/
Dyslexic Character Sheets: www.dyslexic-charactersheets....
Pixelpatch's character sheet: / 2e_sheet_for_5e_player...
Justin's character sheet: / justins_character_shee...
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Игры
I can't recommend Pathbuilder enough, it's so helpful to new and old players alike.
I use Pathbuilder a lot and it takes me less time to build a character than a 5e character at this point.
I've always been a 5e exclusive player, and I adore it, but this channel is making me really want to play Pathfinder sometime.
As someone who was there once, GO TRY P2E. Don't buy anything (*yet*), just go to Archives of Neythis (Probably spelled that wrong) and use the rules there and if you like something, go to pathbuilder and build a free character there. There are so many GREAT and FREE options to try this game.
If the limitations of 5e are dragging you and you want more structure, you will enjoy it. I think it is SO much easier to run RAW/RAI as a GM. I'm spending less time homebrewing and more time vibing with scenes and characters.
Haven't cut my teeth proper on character gen myself as the d20 dm of my group, but it looks SO much fun.
Sounds like you have Stockholm syndrome. 5e is awful.
Honestly, if you can get a group together, why not give it a try? Archives of Nethys gives all the rules for free, so you don’t have to put that much into it to get started. Even something as simple as a one-shot can give you a good taste of the system.
I've recently started P2e and I chose Pathfinder Society. It's a great way to get started! You don't need to put together a group and the GM is always experienced.
Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it! One of us, one of us, one of us, one of us!
I am in the midst of writing my own RPG rules for a 5e replacement, and I end up borrowing so many mechanics and design decisions of Pathfinder that I realize how brilliantly the game is balanced. My RPG is different enough where it isn't really a Pathfinder variant, but when I release it people are definitely going to see Pathfinder's DNA in it.
I'd love to see those changes! I have done lots of that in the past but my changes are all on paper and in spiral notebooks, if you would be willing to share that it would be awesome!
@@alaricesenwein6185 Thanks. It will be some time yet, since I'm still in the process of writing it, and I'll basically release it for free under ORC when it's done. I'll add a comment in the future.
Using Pathbuilder i was shocked seeing how easy and fast building a character is
yep the only hard part is to create a character story :P
I use notepad ++ for PF2e caracter creation and it's still pretty easy.
Pathfinder is also WAY easier for the GM too.
Given the backstory, I'd assumed Droog would have ended up as a Flames Oracle that grabs the Cavalier archetype to get his goblin dog.
That is also viable! (And more flavorful) I wanted to stick to CRB as much as possible to make it easy to follow along tho
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG It's honestly really cool how many ways this could be accomplished with effectively the same idea of the character, with just some slight alteration. Could be a cool video idea tbh, just giving a few different ways of building the same character to show the variety this system has.
Probably the main reason I like PF2e as much as I do. The only place some of my stranger concepts actually function.
I remade some of my DnD characters in Pathbuilder and l had a blast!
I could get way closer to my initial ideas and concepts with all the options l had.
"In Pathfinder you can actually walk in with your concept first and pick choices that fit that concept."
Absolutly. I tend to not build a character as a stat block and then then create a concept around that but rather create a concept and build a stat block around the concept.
In 5e this was a real problem for me because I was constantly running into issues where the options didn't support my concept. In PF2, I have not yet been unable to create something I'm envisioning. And the new classes they keep releasing and the new tools and equipment make it better and better.
I'm quite new to PF2E, but character creation is probably my favorite thing about it. I don't think that the choice paralysis of having so many classes and ancestries is something that should be ignored when thinking of introducing players who are new to TTRPGs to it, although recommending people only look at CRB stuff helps. But those options and all the choices of feats are making character building in D&D feel boring by comparison to me.
That outro caught mee offguard, you do a really great work mate, it shows on the final product
Thanks for pointing it out lol (it was not intended!) I fixed it
My first experience been DM pf2e, im incredible happy for it. But i already waiting the definite edition, cause, my noobs players have difficult in build a character, my Druid wants be a shape shifter, and the rule for that is disperse, and when he discovered that couldn't use wild shape to wolf in lvl1, he was unmotivated, when i make a weak wolf version for him ❤
It is a baby wolf at Level 1! (With "Pest Form") They unfortunately need to wait until Level 3 to be an actual wolf... Also, he could take the Animal Order at Level 1 and have a wolf companion and prepare Animal Form at Level 3, or maybe get a (free?) respec to Wild Order at Level 3?
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG baby wolf is a great suggestion, I will use it in the future. In lvl2 he took a new order to have a animal companion. The ranger and sorcerer of group like it, and they will have a animal companion and a familiar hahhaha
Yo, Justin made a new sheet for the remaster, and it is SLEEK.
I've been having this uphill battle to convince my girlfriend to try pathfinder, but the dense, number-heavy design of the vanilla sheet makes her anxious (she has severe dyscalculia).
Justin's sheet, meanwhile, trims off all those needless numbers (do we really gotta list our INT modifier next to every INT skill instead of just flagging it as using that modifier?), and is great at visualizing the mathematics.
Especially the ability modifiers are a thing of genius and beauty. It's literally just the end modifier, the name, and to the right a set of circles to mark off where all the +1's come from. It almost resembles the World of Darkness character sheet (which uses a dice pool system; you roll as many dice as you have dots in the required abilties) and honestly I love it.
I learned about this sheet less than half an hour ago and I'm already gassing it up.
Where did one find Justin's PFc¹ Character Sheet?
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¹PFc ~ PathFinder Core edition
Related to the dark vision for Asamar being a waste. I would love in the remaster if Paizo did something so that dwarves, goblins, and any other ancestry that starts with dark vision don't loose a ton of benefit with 95% of the versatile heritages. Personally, I would love if most heritages gave something other than dark vision because a) the conflict mentioned and b) I have never found it particularly flavorful for most of them. If they are not going to do that, maybe some alternate benefit instead. I've heard some people use the house rule of taking another first level ancestry feat, but depending on the feat maybe that is too good?
Not really overpowered as most of the versatiles that do that have a 1st level ancestry feat to improve your vision to Darkvision so it is exactly equivalent to a feat
Thank you for making these awesome videos! They are really informative as a new player like myself and nice to listen to, like a podcast of sorts
Pathfinder 2 has the best character creation any D&D like game since Pathfinder 1.
P2 is in fact even better than P1.
Good Lord I've never seen a worse take that this
@@vamphunterx That's for your totally constructive criticism. I will take it under advisement.
I use Herolab for my D&D characters and Pathbuilder2e for Pathfinder characters.
Good video. Quite helpful.
What is your favorite part of creating new characters? Also, if you were a Pathfinder Second Edition character, which class would you rather be? I would rather be the Druid or Summoner class.
So, which lets me have the more badass army of cats?
Yeah. I think 5e is nice for character creation and development for a player new to ttrpgs. But it is so hands off. Full Spell casters at least get a new spell level every other level, but other classes? Very little to do after character creation
I am very interested in how the Ancestry/Class chart from CRB pg 22/23 will look in Player Core 1 in a couple of weeks.
The more i play around with it, the more I find the Background part of character creation falling short. I find it works best when you don't have a strong direction or concept for your character’s backstory, offering guidance in an area you werent confidant with yet. Otherwise I often find it difficult to find a Background that is a good match for the story I envisioned. Or if one is close it usually has a feat and proficiency that is wildly out of sync with the rest of the character concept.
Background is the easiest thing to "DIY" in pathfinder. You just have to give it:
a name;
a description;
a choice between two ability boosts (and a free one);
a trained rank in a skill (and a related skill feat);
a trained rank in a lore skill that matches the concept of the background.
@LelouchBritannia97 You're right. It's just in an environment where the DM just wants to do things by the book as possible, it can be slightly frustrating.
Hey Rules Lawyer! Huge fan here, do you think you could ever make a shopping guide for the Kineticist? I'm very interested in it, but the mechanics seem a bit confusing to me.
Have you seen my Deep Dive on the Kineticist video?
@@TheRulesLawyerRPGooh I haven't! thank you very much!
3:00 - If I recall, a ‘droog’ is also one of the ultraviolent gang members from A Clockwork Orange. It’s sure to be a horrorshow.
I agree with this 100%, but I wish fewer choices were locked behind classss.
archetypes can often help with that
@@ghostyuki-kfpinquisitor1038I know; I just don't like classes in general.
True, though even in a free-form setting you'd probably need some way to group them.
I'm going to be running a small campaign for friends new to 2E where they're all goblins.
Anyone have any recommendations for one shots that would work well for that?
Thanks!
There is a one shot called We Be Goblins
Every time I see your videos I want to play Pathfinder. But I can't find a group *sad*
Can you cover the Pathbuilder 2e app?
Hallo Rules Lawyer, I had two questions about character creation that might fit here. First, if the background and class, Underworld Investigator for example, both give me the same lore skill how is that handled in the rules. Second, if my ancestry gives an unarmed attack, like Ganzi's Smashing Tail, does it still count as using the Fist weapon with agile and Finess? Because the feat says only your attack gets the sweep trait not that you get a new weapon.
I know I can always ask the GM, but I'm curious about the RAR side, and yes I might want to play an Unarmed Ganzi Investigator.
For backgrounds, if you gain the same skill from both your background and class, you just get to pick an additional trained skill of your choice instead of the second one. You can find the rule for this at the beginning of the Backgrounds section of the CRB.
In regards to unarmed attacks, each unarmed attack you gain is distinct from the others. You don't combine the traits of different types of unarmed attacks you have, each has their own traits and damage dice (think of them as a collection if different weapons, and you can choose which one to use each time you make an unarmed attack). Smashing Tail uses the standard language of "You gain a tail unarmed attack", which means it is a new, separate unarmed attack. This also means it does not have the nonlethal trait of a fist attack, so you can do lethal damage without the penalty even if you don't have a class feature for that (like what monks get).
Correct, though I would add that since it lacks the nonlethal trait, it does lethal damage without penalty, and the normal rule that doing nonlethal damage with it incurs a -2 penalty applies. (Whereas if it has the nonlethal trait it would be the reverse I believe)
Thank for the explenation, but sadly that also means that if someone wants to play an unarmed dex PC they have to be either a Monk, one of a few Ancestries with a specific Haritage, or are forced into a certain Archetype. Or do I miss some early feat that allows that? @@TheRulesLawyerRPG
@@PadanGedowitch It depends where you look, but overall I'm pretty sure there are more with finesse than without. Claws are the most common type of unarmed attack, and most of those have the finesse trait too. A lot of jaw/fangs attacks are finesse as well, and not as many tail or horn attacks are. If you're looking for a versatile heritage option, Tiefling has the Form of the Fiend level 1 ancestry feat which gives you a choice of four types (claw, hoof, jaws, tail) and all four have finesse. Your GM may also allow you to use the damage/traits of a different ancestry's tail attack as a ganzi, like the tiefling tail attack.
Interesting choice of hairstyle, Roland.
Very cool video, though!
Lol, "Roland"
I think after making a character twice in different PF2 games, it's not difficult to create a character. There's a lot of options but I don't think it feels stifling or too complex. It's pretty streamlined, if you start with a basic idea. Like even if it's just "I would like to make a gunslinging cleric". So you look at the options, maybe there's a feat or archetype to get proficiency in guns, or barring that, you could start as a cleric/gunslinger and take the archetype of the other.
Then again, we always play with the free archetype rule.
Me personally I tend to lean towards human, or human-like characters because with all the different crazy/weird races, I like playing characters that lean towards "normal" or "grounded". I also generally like the idea of a normal human among the rest rising above naturally powerful or supernatural entities/obstacles
I think another reason folks gravitate away from Human in 5e because most classes don’t get as much customization. So, to really feel “different/fantasizing”, picking an odd race helps.
With all the deep customization (separate skill growth, class/feat/multiclass growth, ancestry/heritage growth), it’s so much easier to make a Human that’s just as deep and interesting.
Honestly I think I make nonhuman characters for the simple reason that I've always felt out of place, and I've tried to make peace with that fact. Playing a ratfolk or something is my excuse to be a little weird without having to explain myself.
"D" could also stand for "develop" as in "develop your character some more".
And then F 'further", as in "further develop your character"!
12:22 - AKA: a mutant dire rat. 🐀
Well for a lot of the casters you will want to care a lot about your spells because some of them arent great, infact the incapacitate spells are usually very bad.
Ah PF2e. Its crunchy, deep, sometimes overwhelming and adaptive. Kinda 5e is reverse. Level based both though. Thanks to Free League and its Dragonbane and Forbidden Lands ttrpgs with SOLID slot-in homebrew friendly structure and I' ve been amazed and sold on the skill+ heroic abilities based roll under system + simpler yet makes other parts deeper mechanics. You got 15 Constitution? THAT is your health, Chainmail armor give 4 armor and a helmet 2? You got 6 armor total that dampens the dmg of varying grades depending if you get hit with slashing, bludgeoning and piercing. You get 1 Action or reaction on enemies turn if not used that action, move in meter 2m square = 5ft. Could say much more. Just try DB and FL out. Would love to hear your opinion
Now this is the kind of propaganda i can get behind
citation needed that characters in pf2 'thrive' coz played experience is a straight jacket of tight math, boring feats, and required condition loops, no matter what level you are.
The two big barriers with PF2e character creation are the first 2 steps - concept and attributes. Concept is a problem because to have one you need to first know what is available, and then if you look at what is available it is very easy to get immediately overwhelmed, particularly as new players wont know (yet) that the feats are not going to be a problem. Plus starting with a concept is flawed because what you really want to do is start with a group party composition in mind and a role. PF2e is a team game. That should be built into character creation from the start.
If you get past that, the mini-game you have to play to get your attributes is (imho) absolutely absurd and completely out of place with the rest of the game. PF2e basically requires you to have 16 in your main stat so for each class, just give 2 standard array options - one with a 16 in main stat, and one with an 18. Same result. So much easier. Players who want to invest their attributes with RP/backstory still will (I have a 12 Cha because I used to work in a bar. It was not a very good bar), players who don't, wont anyway. IF players get past these two steps, the rest is easy.
I hate the new character creation. We are so far from 1E pathfinder and parsecs from 1E D&D. I should have DLed the books before buying the remaster. Its so game ified its hardly roleplaying. Don't like the stats being gone because I have roll under rules for my players. 3-18 gives granularity. I still miss 2E D&D non unified rules because it doesn't have an always roll hi mechanics. The more I read from 2E the sadder I get as it is more like 4E D&D and superheores than people existing in a living breathing world.
Choice is fine, but this is such a mess. Going to go back to skill based games like Mythras, Runequest or Rolemaster to get my fantasy fix. Now I am stuck with 150 bucks in 2E remaster books that simply make me mad at them making the game more game than ever before.
lost me at ability scores
just roll man, just roll
You can still do that at your table if you want to.
Personally I'd rather not leave that part to RNG
Rolling can create wildly imbalanced characters. In 5e, i always use standard array since it’s more balanced. But the way pf2e does attributes, it’s wayyyy more balanced.
I don't mind playing with a set array,
but they made something simple into something unnecessarily convoluted
basically pick 2 stats to boost (or use the presets)
pick 1 stat to boost (other is preset)
pick 1 stat to boost (if isn't preset)
pick 4 stats to boost
done
It's an official option in the 2e CRB. However, I'm guessing it's going the way of the dodo in the Remaster (maybe live on a legacy optional rule?). To be perfectly honest I don't see many 2e players missing it.