I said Yuna the same time Pat said it. Our brains sync at that very moment, and it was magical when it happened. About her being vanilla, Lulu would be dark chocolate, and Rikku being mango flavored ice cream. Which I happened to find her more in common to Tidus than Yuna would ever be.
+Santi Kun Woolie: "This team really needed a Vasquez" Pat "Oh yeah definitely, do you know who it should've been?" Woolie: ...? Pat: SAMUS!!!!!! YOU FUCKING IDIOT
I find it funny that Woolie brings up Aerith when Pat says he hates Yuna because she's a doormat because in FF7, Aerith threatened to rip Don Corneo's balls off, she ain't a doormat.
Woolie is not wrong about Max Caufield though. Her whole character is about getting in other ppls business and calling others out on stuff, but don't like it when other ppl are getting in on her shit.
I actually can't fucking believe they never said fucking Jodie from Beyond: Two Souls. I was waiting for it and it never came and I was so disappointed.
NostalgiaFactor They wanted to forget that I guess. Like, Pat was reading a list to even figure it out so he probably never got to Jodie. I mean, he forgot Lightning.
Pat, I love you, we agree on so much shit, but Yuna is my girl. I like that she is so sweet and kind and helpful all the time, but knows she has to be strong and make sacrifices because it is her job. I can't help but love her.
Yuna isn't the worst but I do know what Pat means by her over politeness. But I deeply admire and appreciate her growth throughout the story of FFX. :) But I can't think of a female video game protagonist that I can't stand. But my favorite video game female protagonist would have to be between Velvet from Tales of Berseria and Samus. :) I resonate with Velvet because she follows her emotions more than anything, and while that may sound dangerous, the opposite is just as dangerous. Play the game to find out what I mean, it's amazing. :D
I was saying "new Lara" to myself exactly as Pat starting saying it. But I'm not sure it's the character per se I don't like. On paper, Dad-related inferiority issues, psychotic curiosity and resolve that's not usually triggered until she's backed into a corner make for a pretty cool character. I think she sucks because the game puts her on an unnecessarily god-tier pedestal (music/sound cues, interactions with other characters, she being the only person ever with anything close to her day 1 super abilities). The entirety of both games screams OMG IT'S LARA CROFT DON'T YOU LOVE HEEER!
The game forces you to care about her. However before she was a character with obvious attributes and she was almost super heroish with her abilities etc. The new Lara is just ... "girl" and you are forced to feel for her when it does the exact opposite. Its why I never bought the games, every time I watched a part it just annoyed me.
Fire Dragon K They could make her likable in future games. In the first two games, she was majorly annoying, because she's way too serious and melodramatic all the time. Her little soliloquys at the campfires, her interactions with Jacob and Roth and Sam, the way she predictably utters a different synonym for "beautiful" whenever she enters a tomb. No charisma, no charm in any of that. The games' problem is that they never address the absurdity of that. If they just add some elements to the story that highlight how absurd Lara's personality is, then she'll be much more enjoyable as "That absurdly dire woman." Add a character who makes fun of her. Add another character that she has to use her seriousness to keep in line. Get her into some trouble because of her humorless personality. Her driven craziness is arguably the only reason she can accomplish what she accomplishes. But it is absurd. The game feels phony without some element addressing that. Her emotional baggage could also do with some negative implications. A few times, she wonders to herself something controversial like "My dad would hate me for this," or "It's all my fault that these people are being attacked," but she always corrects herself in the very next sentence. There's no point to that self doubt if she can auto correct it every time it surfaces.
Seeing that empty space makes me wonder why Liam left the Best Friends to do the same thing anyways. He said one of his reasons was anxiety and all that, but was it the anxiety of keeping a schedule and being told what to play and leaving his house to do it? He's still pretty much let's playing and he even does face cam, so I wonder what the real problem was... He was like, fuck y'all, I'm getting this rising superstar money~ lol I just miss Liam on the team.
He says he always felt that he didn't quite belong, and the "ugh, Liam's in this LP, I'm not watching. Why do you guys even keep him around?" comments were a knife right to that sore spot.
I feel like Matt is the references fun guy, Pat the smart but morally wrong guy if he's not legally wrong, Woolie is the guy who is hyped and fun while morally grey, and Liam the anime guy who has lots of knowledge and fun facts and is always right more than he is fun. No one wants to stay Young Neil.
Can we all agree that on principle, the worst female protagonist is the one that "renounces her womanhood" to be a warrior, or to have her revenge, etc.? The one that says, "From this point on, I am no longer a woman. I am ______."? Total garbage.
Rey Mustayne no because Mulan never renounces her womanhood, she just pretends to on a surface level. She still retains feminine traits throughout the film, and unlike the typical arc of the "renouncer", her development has nothing to do with learning that it's okay to feel feelings. Think more of seargant Calhoun from wreck it Ralph if she was the lead and not a deconstruction of the trope.
Ohya has one of the more interesting confidants I feel. Yes her abilities suck but her character and story arc are actually really interesting. And I wish people would stop calling her a drunk. She's at the bar twice a week. At night. After she's off. Getting mildly drunk. Not even close to the wasted sleazy reporter everyone seems to think she is.
I agree with you, but I think the problem is that you mostly interact with her while she's drinking, so in the player's eyes that is one of the first things that comes to kind
I don't know, Yuna has more going on than most female protagonists without her breaking character. She's certainly worlds above Rinoa who is cancer for me
What Pat said about her being a doormat is actually PART of her character. She goes from a flat 'yes' woman that is willing to die for a 'greater good' because her religion demands it, to someone actively against her government and religion and trying to fight Sin in an unconventional way that would've/could've mostly ended in failure.
Man this really confirms that Woolie's never played an FF if he thinks any of those characters are remotely similar. Also, that Pat doesn't understand character development.
Also, I don't think fighting games should count, like, the way stories and experiencing characters is different in fighting games than other games. Like, you just pick a character and beat the shit out of the other character and they talk in silly awkward lines so you don't get to experience them being people in a story really... If that makes any sense.
Asya Smith Nah there are tons of fighting game characters with great personality and decent motivations and don't just rely on eye candy. Most of it also comes from their fighting styles as well. Its a shame though that they only talk about Dead or Alive since that series has the blandest, most boring cast of characters ever. Virtua Fighter also has they same issue but with less fanservice
Yeah man, Garnet's awesome. Pat is just talking out of his ass. Rinoa is the absolute worse, IMO. I personally like Yuna, but I can understand why others wouldn't; but I definitely can't understand liking Rinoa more than Yuna and Garnet.
Laura Croft, Lightning, FemShep Rip offs, Jody in Beyond Two Souls, That chick from Infamous Second Suns. That's just games. I'm not even getting into comics, movies or shows yet: Kitty Pryde, Batwoman, Sara Lance in LoT S2, that chick from the RE movies I won't watch fully, Carol Danvers Captain Marvel, Jessica Jones in the Defenders SOMETIMES, Maka from Soul Eater, Sakura Haruno for marrying a guy who tried to fucking killer her and her friends multiple times, and every cool game where the gameplay is cool, but I to play as a female so I’m not as immersed (most Japanese games, and that one game with the robot animals and the bow and arrow stuff. But I'm aware that's not fair to hate on her for simply existing).
I can understand where you're coming from with being forced to play as a female. Makes you wonder if Legend of Kora would've been better if it was a guy...
Shouldn't Pat realized he was doing the same exact thing that every guy does because she is the "x" out of "y", where everyone is fine, until the "worst" one out of the group is the most offensive. That is circular logic of the highest degree, where you'll defend "x" but not defend "y". Besides, FF7 is over-rated, FF8 is god-awful because it's an expy of 7, and FF9 tried to return to the 'classic' state, that's why the characters are deformed, but is still just as bad. At least FFX is almost a clean slate design and character wise because it isn't a cyberpunk dystopia like FF7 and FF8 are. Also, aren't people that believe FFX ruined the franchise, are literally the worst people, because those are the people that are so entrenched in their thoughts that they can't be objective to new things and maybe realize that their not the target audience anymore. Like I think Teen Titans Go is incredibly stupid, but I'm not the target audience anymore, so it doesn't matter. And nice guys, you shit on women characters, but can't even say who might be your favorite, bravo fellas.
Hot take warning I dislike chun li I respect her history and design but she is painfully boring to me like most females in sf are better than chun especially juri and sakura whom are Imo massively better
I'm gonna go the same route as Pat and say Penelo from FFXII. She's the most "why are you here?" party member in the game. She's got no business with anything going on in the story and she's a boring design.
I really like Penelo in Revenant Wings. As well as her massive upgrade in design, the story focus on Vaan and her gives her some actual character, as the role of team mum suits her well. Going back to XII it's pretty disappointing to see how the first game handles her.
Idk about you guys but the chick from horizon zero dawn is the most boring nothing bland character i've ever seen everyone like. I can't describe how nothing her character is. Her name is cool her design is cool the world building is cool but the characters fall flatter than stock brokers jumping off the twin towers. (edgy joke for cheap attention) I had to stop playing Horizon because of how boring and bland the story and characters were. Anyways i don't see anyone yelling about best girl in P5 on this comment section, so let's start. Who is best girl and why is it Kawakami?
Moon Man thats a weird way of spelling Kawakami But i found that Aloy was super fucking boring with no motivation, the character building felt super flat because you spend the whole game not really giving a fuck doing side quests. I got so sick of her to the extent that i didnt even want to finish the game. And the facial animations were pretty bad.
As someone who just finished the game, I agree. But my problem isn't so much the main character (bland as she is) but more so the characters and story in general are just so...forgettable. BTW, best girl is Haru because she's a precious cinnamon bun.
Игры
Nice to know Pat dreams about Woolie in female cosplay.
So Pat revealed as the mastermind behind StudioFow's Kasumi's downfall into depravity
You should be as ashamed of yourself as I am of myself for knowing that.
She is a red head and I hate I know what this is lmao
My favorite female protagonist: Samus Aran
My least favorite female protagonist: also Samus Aran (Other M)
Moon Man no. That's not Samus in other m. That is an imposter pretending to be Samus Aran
Samus isn't a character though. She's a design. Other M is the only time she's had characterisation and everyone hated it, because it was awful.
Alex Curr not really, she had a character in fusion, and while she didn’t talk she had character in the primes through body language.
The Baby...
Pat's ginger rage meter was at 8/10
8/10 was when he ranted about ffxand x2
I said Yuna the same time Pat said it. Our brains sync at that very moment, and it was magical when it happened.
About her being vanilla, Lulu would be dark chocolate, and Rikku being mango flavored ice cream.
Which I happened to find her more in common to Tidus than Yuna would ever be.
Guys fucking Lighting makes Yuna look like Sarah Conner.
Claire Redfield, Samus, Tifa and Curly Brace are my favorite video game heroines.
They got there in the end
+Santi Kun
Woolie: "This team really needed a Vasquez"
Pat "Oh yeah definitely, do you know who it should've been?"
Woolie: ...?
Pat: SAMUS!!!!!! YOU FUCKING IDIOT
Vasquez is hardcore action lady from the movie Aliens in team of space marines similar to the team in this disappointment.
Santiago That's because they are.
"Curly Brace" *Violent flashbacks* *crying in corner*
I find it funny that Woolie brings up Aerith when Pat says he hates Yuna because she's a doormat because in FF7, Aerith threatened to rip Don Corneo's balls off, she ain't a doormat.
Lightning should have been disqualified from the discussion. Too easy.
Low hanging fruit.
Lower than Max Caulfield?
She's barely a person.
I was waiting for Pat to say "Destiny is Destiny"
Matt: Aw shit...
Patt may now identify with Pearl from Splatoon 2 if he wants a Grumpy character to relate too XD
Woolie is not wrong about Max Caufield though. Her whole character is about getting in other ppls business and calling others out on stuff, but don't like it when other ppl are getting in on her shit.
Jmaster Pullmizter yeah, because she's just an innocent girl with The World.
We still have these moments
I actually can't fucking believe they never said fucking Jodie from Beyond: Two Souls.
I was waiting for it and it never came and I was so disappointed.
NostalgiaFactor They wanted to forget that I guess. Like, Pat was reading a list to even figure it out so he probably never got to Jodie. I mean, he forgot Lightning.
I don't think they really hated Jodie. All of the hatred went straight to the source, David Cage.
I love how they completely forgot about lightning
Pat, I love you, we agree on so much shit, but Yuna is my girl. I like that she is so sweet and kind and helpful all the time, but knows she has to be strong and make sacrifices because it is her job. I can't help but love her.
yuna was HARD fuckin core waifu material for me for whatever reason. i remember being like 11 and being genuinely in love with her like omg
Holy shit, Matt's "dumb bitch" voice is gold
Yuna isn't the worst but I do know what Pat means by her over politeness. But I deeply admire and appreciate her growth throughout the story of FFX. :) But I can't think of a female video game protagonist that I can't stand. But my favorite video game female protagonist would have to be between Velvet from Tales of Berseria and Samus. :) I resonate with Velvet because she follows her emotions more than anything, and while that may sound dangerous, the opposite is just as dangerous. Play the game to find out what I mean, it's amazing. :D
Chloe Price. "I gotta blame somebody. Otherwise it's all my fault. Fuck that." Takes David's gun and promptly trick shots herself.
i like kasumi's
design. more for pairing her and ayane
and yuna too.
I feel like Matt likes Lulu because his wife is like a sassier, more Italian Lulu lol
Also because of her massive Lulus
I was saying "new Lara" to myself exactly as Pat starting saying it. But I'm not sure it's the character per se I don't like. On paper, Dad-related inferiority issues, psychotic curiosity and resolve that's not usually triggered until she's backed into a corner make for a pretty cool character.
I think she sucks because the game puts her on an unnecessarily god-tier pedestal (music/sound cues, interactions with other characters, she being the only person ever with anything close to her day 1 super abilities). The entirety of both games screams OMG IT'S LARA CROFT DON'T YOU LOVE HEEER!
The game forces you to care about her. However before she was a character with obvious attributes and she was almost super heroish with her abilities etc.
The new Lara is just ... "girl" and you are forced to feel for her when it does the exact opposite. Its why I never bought the games, every time I watched a part it just annoyed me.
Fire Dragon K They could make her likable in future games. In the first two games, she was majorly annoying, because she's way too serious and melodramatic all the time. Her little soliloquys at the campfires, her interactions with Jacob and Roth and Sam, the way she predictably utters a different synonym for "beautiful" whenever she enters a tomb. No charisma, no charm in any of that. The games' problem is that they never address the absurdity of that.
If they just add some elements to the story that highlight how absurd Lara's personality is, then she'll be much more enjoyable as "That absurdly dire woman." Add a character who makes fun of her. Add another character that she has to use her seriousness to keep in line. Get her into some trouble because of her humorless personality. Her driven craziness is arguably the only reason she can accomplish what she accomplishes. But it is absurd. The game feels phony without some element addressing that.
Her emotional baggage could also do with some negative implications. A few times, she wonders to herself something controversial like "My dad would hate me for this," or "It's all my fault that these people are being attacked," but she always corrects herself in the very next sentence. There's no point to that self doubt if she can auto correct it every time it surfaces.
Fire Dragon K Same here bro.
Seeing that empty space makes me wonder why Liam left the Best Friends to do the same thing anyways. He said one of his reasons was anxiety and all that, but was it the anxiety of keeping a schedule and being told what to play and leaving his house to do it? He's still pretty much let's playing and he even does face cam, so I wonder what the real problem was... He was like, fuck y'all, I'm getting this rising superstar money~ lol I just miss Liam on the team.
He says he always felt that he didn't quite belong, and the "ugh, Liam's in this LP, I'm not watching. Why do you guys even keep him around?" comments were a knife right to that sore spot.
I feel like Matt is the references fun guy, Pat the smart but morally wrong guy if he's not legally wrong, Woolie is the guy who is hyped and fun while morally grey, and Liam the anime guy who has lots of knowledge and fun facts and is always right more than he is fun. No one wants to stay Young Neil.
But that's what made him the goodest! I felt like he was a much needed breath of fresh air in certain conversations.
He still does stuff? Where? Does he have a RUclips channel?
mal i can explain that if you like.
machinima crowd.. that's it. that's the only reason.
Can we all agree that on principle, the worst female protagonist is the one that "renounces her womanhood" to be a warrior, or to have her revenge, etc.? The one that says, "From this point on, I am no longer a woman. I am ______."? Total garbage.
Rey Mustayne no because Mulan never renounces her womanhood, she just pretends to on a surface level. She still retains feminine traits throughout the film, and unlike the typical arc of the "renouncer", her development has nothing to do with learning that it's okay to feel feelings.
Think more of seargant Calhoun from wreck it Ralph if she was the lead and not a deconstruction of the trope.
Yeah that shit's so stupid. It's like at that point wtf are they trying to do? Prove that women can be strong or imply that they can't?
yeah, like Lady Macbeth, what a terrible character. utter garbage, that Shakespeare shit
Ricky Jaeger She denounced her gender in favor of power, and got Death.
Ohya has one of the more interesting confidants I feel. Yes her abilities suck but her character and story arc are actually really interesting.
And I wish people would stop calling her a drunk. She's at the bar twice a week. At night. After she's off. Getting mildly drunk.
Not even close to the wasted sleazy reporter everyone seems to think she is.
I agree with you, but I think the problem is that you mostly interact with her while she's drinking, so in the player's eyes that is one of the first things that comes to kind
I don't know, Yuna has more going on than most female protagonists without her breaking character. She's certainly worlds above Rinoa who is cancer for me
What Pat said about her being a doormat is actually PART of her character. She goes from a flat 'yes' woman that is willing to die for a 'greater good' because her religion demands it, to someone actively against her government and religion and trying to fight Sin in an unconventional way that would've/could've mostly ended in failure.
I identify with Samus because I tried to join a large union for my work but then went independent after seeing how bullshit it was
...I like Yuna...:( I thought Hedy Burress did a good job voicing her.
Man this really confirms that Woolie's never played an FF if he thinks any of those characters are remotely similar.
Also, that Pat doesn't understand character development.
Pat, wtf are you freaking out about with VirtuaFighter
He really likes Virtua Fighter cause he grew up with it and there hasn't been any new ones cause it fused with DOA.
@@ftwsam2246 Not really fused, more collaborated once then fucked off for some reason.
Woolie and Matt implying 3D pig girls > anime, confirmed plebs
Also, I don't think fighting games should count, like, the way stories and experiencing characters is different in fighting games than other games. Like, you just pick a character and beat the shit out of the other character and they talk in silly awkward lines so you don't get to experience them being people in a story really... If that makes any sense.
PRIMARY...
Asya Smith Nah there are tons of fighting game characters with great personality and decent motivations and don't just rely on eye candy. Most of it also comes from their fighting styles as well. Its a shame though that they only talk about Dead or Alive since that series has the blandest, most boring cast of characters ever. Virtua Fighter also has they same issue but with less fanservice
Can we talk about how Garnet's character development in FF9 is super cool and important to the game?
Garnet is so much better than Rinoa
Yeah man, Garnet's awesome. Pat is just talking out of his ass.
Rinoa is the absolute worse, IMO. I personally like Yuna, but I can understand why others wouldn't; but I definitely can't understand liking Rinoa more than Yuna and Garnet.
Nero Crescendo I honestly hated garnet... Then again I adore Freya but her whole deal is kind of disappointing in comparison
Shes really not better, even after that.
Alloys hair pisses me off in Horizon
I always hated Lara Croft in the new Tomb Raider games
Lord Blue Balls Me too!
Main Girl is always, without fail, worst girl.
Wow how dare woolie insult max like this
Blame Yuna's english voice actor XD
joyce hayes mobley It's not gonna change the subtitles. So blame the writing.
Laura Croft, Lightning, FemShep Rip offs, Jody in Beyond Two Souls, That chick from Infamous Second Suns. That's just games. I'm not even getting into comics, movies or shows yet: Kitty Pryde, Batwoman, Sara Lance in LoT S2, that chick from the RE movies I won't watch fully, Carol Danvers Captain Marvel, Jessica Jones in the Defenders SOMETIMES, Maka from Soul Eater, Sakura Haruno for marrying a guy who tried to fucking killer her and her friends multiple times, and every cool game where the gameplay is cool, but I to play as a female so I’m not as immersed (most Japanese games, and that one game with the robot animals and the bow and arrow stuff. But I'm aware that's not fair to hate on her for simply existing).
Shock Vox Do you hate Lara Croft for the same reasons I do?
I can understand where you're coming from with being forced to play as a female. Makes you wonder if Legend of Kora would've been better if it was a guy...
if Korra was a guy, he'd still be an unlikable, mule-headed, confrontational idiot with next to no character progression, so i doubt it.
Yuna is the worst
Shouldn't Pat realized he was doing the same exact thing that every guy does because she is the "x" out of "y", where everyone is fine, until the "worst" one out of the group is the most offensive. That is circular logic of the highest degree, where you'll defend "x" but not defend "y". Besides, FF7 is over-rated, FF8 is god-awful because it's an expy of 7, and FF9 tried to return to the 'classic' state, that's why the characters are deformed, but is still just as bad. At least FFX is almost a clean slate design and character wise because it isn't a cyberpunk dystopia like FF7 and FF8 are. Also, aren't people that believe FFX ruined the franchise, are literally the worst people, because those are the people that are so entrenched in their thoughts that they can't be objective to new things and maybe realize that their not the target audience anymore. Like I think Teen Titans Go is incredibly stupid, but I'm not the target audience anymore, so it doesn't matter. And nice guys, you shit on women characters, but can't even say who might be your favorite, bravo fellas.
Hot take warning I dislike chun li I respect her history and design but she is painfully boring to me like most females in sf are better than chun especially juri and sakura whom are Imo massively better
chun li is respected but every other sf girl has been better
Chun was a bit doomed as the first because she was so boring
I'm gonna go the same route as Pat and say Penelo from FFXII. She's the most "why are you here?" party member in the game. She's got no business with anything going on in the story and she's a boring design.
Kobra_Kid But dont you like her stupid fuckin leather wings?
Doot Dootington dude watch the ending cutscenes to FFXII. Her design there is WAY better and what she should have looked like to begin with!!
I really like Penelo in Revenant Wings. As well as her massive upgrade in design, the story focus on Vaan and her gives her some actual character, as the role of team mum suits her well. Going back to XII it's pretty disappointing to see how the first game handles her.
Depending on the artist, she was there as Fran's pet.
Idk about you guys but the chick from horizon zero dawn is the most boring nothing bland character i've ever seen everyone like. I can't describe how nothing her character is. Her name is cool her design is cool the world building is cool but the characters fall flatter than stock brokers jumping off the twin towers. (edgy joke for cheap attention) I had to stop playing Horizon because of how boring and bland the story and characters were. Anyways i don't see anyone yelling about best girl in P5 on this comment section, so let's start. Who is best girl and why is it Kawakami?
Chinkus McDingus that's the best part.
Chinkus McDingus Aloy is pretty much girl from Brave without the accent and the stronger motivation.
And best girl is obviously Tae duh
Moon Man thats a weird way of spelling Kawakami
But i found that Aloy was super fucking boring with no motivation, the character building felt super flat because you spend the whole game not really giving a fuck doing side quests. I got so sick of her to the extent that i didnt even want to finish the game. And the facial animations were pretty bad.
As someone who just finished the game, I agree. But my problem isn't so much the main character (bland as she is) but more so the characters and story in general are just so...forgettable.
BTW, best girl is Haru because she's a precious cinnamon bun.
The real answer is:
They all suck.