How I Broke the Local CTAF !
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Pilots learn from the earliest days of their training the importance of proper use of the aircraft radio. Making position reports at non-towered airports is important for everybody's situational awareness. A number of midair collisions over the last couple of years highlights the necesssity of good communication near airports where multiple aircraft can be occupying the same airspace.
#kitfox #bushplane #experimentalaircraft #aviation #tailwheel # #aviation lovers
That helpful dude is the type who has a good chance of ending his flying career (and the life of his and others) in a mid-air collision. You were spot on with your communications.
Thanks!
Don’t listen to that guy. You’re being safe and any faa official would give you the thumbs up.
Thanks for being a safe pilot and being considerate of other potential traffic in the area.
You sir are the reason I listen to CTAF! lol Love knowing where folks are!
Yes I'd rather err on the side of safety. Even with the pattern all to myself, there's no way of knowing how many people will suddenly be showing up to join me. I see it as my way of establishing the runway in use before everybody just starts using the same runway just because some guy did an instrument approach and everybody else just followed.
I have been flying for 50 years over 31,000 hours from A-350 to Cessna tail draggers , you sir did just fine . Enjoy your lovely Kitfox and don't get upset by a Douche.
Thanks for the vote of confidence ! That's a lot of flight hours you have !
You did the right thing. There are clowns in every human activity that take shortcuts that will eventually get them in trouble. Keep doing what you’re doing. Making those calls keeps everyone safer.
Thanks !
As a CFI, I say to follow the AIM taught by a competent flight instructor! The Pilot community, like all communities, does have its oddballs, misfits, and curmudgeons. Don't be that guy! Blue Skies!
Agreed !
Keep making your calls - I always do and I appreciate it when others do as well.
I appreciate that
Your calls were fine! I'd prefer abbreviated tail number and position once established on the leg for brevity's sake (99 Delta downwind 36), but yours were fine since you used "turning" when turning! That dude was just an arrogant #######.
If my aircraft was equipped with ADS-B out, I would absolutely transmit tail numbers. But since nobody can see me on their screen anyway, I'd rather just tell them in plain English what to look for. Thanks for your input.
IMO you were 100% right.. I dont know what that other guy was talking about. I didn't learn to call crosswind, but when there's no other traffic talking, there's no harm, and I do it just in case someone is entering the pattern from the 45 and just turned on the frequency.
I totally agree. What's the harm in making standard calls even if there's nobody around in the pattern. I see it as my chance to establish the runway in use.
If it’s an uncontrolled field you are better off saying “white cub” than a string of letters and numbers that can’t be read by anyone.
Far better to over-communicate sometimes.
@@RV6Pilot agreed, I don't have ADSB -out so my tail numbers don't show up on anybody's screen anyway.
whoever transmitted that b.s. neds to go back to basic flight training.....
I'm not even sure it was a licensed pilot....
15K hr, 30+ yr ATP, CFI here… AIP’s radio procedures are 100% correct… good job!
Without a doubt you sir are a consciousness pilot.
The other pilot always has the option to turn his radio off. 🤷♂️
I think he was accusing me of making folks want to do exactly that. The problem is, I was only broadcasting from the standard positions in the pattern, and making the call as brief and accurate as possible. When the pattern is full and people are making long slow rambling transmissions containing "ahhhhh......ummm..." I want to yell at them.
@@aviatorinparadise Sorry I have to say he is sort of correct or at least could be. But saying so over the radio is poor form. I would talk to you about it during a flight review or friendly airport discussion. As with most things it is not just as simple as following a simple set of rules like, make base, downwind, base and final calls. I think something like that used to be in the FAR/AIM but my cursory look today I didn't find it, but maybe it is still there.
The biggest problem is you don't know what you don't know.
You don't know what is going on the other cockpit.
Pilot monitoring 2 frequency (Approach and CTAF), now he has to turn off CTAF so he can hear approach
Instructor Student in practice area or nearby airport on same frequency, Your frequent and un-necessary transmissions are interrupting the instructor, so he has to turn down the radio.
More likely chance of you stepping on or preventing an important radio call like, I am on short final, as another airplane start to pull out in front of me.
Pilot also get so used to hearing routine calls that don't apply to them. When it happens so often pilots tend to tune the radio calls out.
You won't hear it if you aren't listening for it.
For example: ruclips.net/video/vJG698U2Mvo/видео.html
I like the following phrase... "Listen. Think about what you going to say. Why and who are you going to say it to? Maybe don't say it if it isn't going to help anyone"
There was no other radio traffic so who are you talking to?
.
The only person that really wants to know is that guy that just switched frequencies 10-20 miles out and is listening to see what is going on that the airport. You announcing "turning downwind Runway 36" just let him know everything he needs to know. There is traffic in the pattern and you are using runway 36.
Even if I am in the pattern with you it tells me everything I need to know also. I just got an update on your position, I know in about 2 minutes you should be turning Base. In about another 2 minutes you should be touching down and in about another 2 minutes you should be turning downwind again at which point you will probably update your position. The only reason I need to know any more is if you are doing something different or we might be getting closer than is comfortable, I don't need an update every 60 seconds interrupting my coaching the student I am just teaching how to fly a pattern and is learning how to do touch and goes. Plus I probably have you in sight most of the time and if I lose site of you in a position that might be an issue I can always announce my position and/or ask where you are? I will make a downwind call also so you can reset you mental picture of where I am at and what I am doing as well.
One exception, I have flown with a few pilots that are truly horrible at spotting other aircraft. And to those pilots I do recommend making that radio call every 60-90 seconds or so. As a result I also teach that when you hear a pilot making so many radio calls, especially if he isn't acknowledging that he has you or other traffic in sight be very careful.
I think and hope you posted your video to learn and help others learn. Thank you for doing so.
I have been flying for about 35 years and 9000 hrs and am still learning.
This is a good read, but says surprising little about radio communication...
www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_90-66b.pdf
Thank You
Brian
CFII
That was uncalled for. You did nothing wrong, other than the one honest mistake.
I would suggest in the future to refrain from “white Kitfox” and just say your tail number, or the abbreviated tail number. THAT can be construed as non-standard.
The number of calls was appropriate.
I like "white Kitfox" since it tells me what I am looking for.
U were correct. Being safe. The punk that called u out is the reason we have so many accidents. Should be grounded if he does not know better. Takes quite a bit of flying in a controlled environment to get comfortable on the radio. Ots very likely his instructor doesn't know better frombthe quality of a lot of cfis out there. Getting hard to find competent instructors these days .
I’m in Australia you make as many calls as u like. However in a small airport call downwind and final only is acceptable if there is other traffic in area on ground or in circuit then call all circuit legs.
I would have just said “lol” and continued doing what I was doing.
Good job with the radio. Back when Ag was crop dusting and when I paid only ten thousand for a Stearman, we didn't have radios. Some locals fussed but understood. This is the first I have heard of complaints about using the radio. You were looking outside as much as inside and did not get too involved in gauges because of just out of maintenance of build.
“Skip the by-the-book flight testing and do a lot of touch and goes” - Bad Idea! Part of the test is to get you away from the ground and gain room to recover while you get the feel of the plane. Envelope expansion includes not only faster higher but lower slower. You want to start in the heart of the envelope. This goes for post maintenance testing too, don’t do laps to check the plane, climb, climb, and climb some more. You can orbit over the field but get altitude for that safety.
The jerk that came on the radio should mind his own business. He’s the reason people get killed in the pattern. I fly a very busy non towered airport and you must make those calls. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Remember to use your full, or abbreviated, call sign. It helps ADSB-in equipped aircraft ID who’s-who in the pattern. Advisory Circular 90-66B states, “Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and detection. Paint schemes and color or style descriptions may be added to the use of the aircraft call sign and type, but should not replace type or call sign.”
While I agree with what you are saying, my aircraft is not equipped with ADSB out. At a towered airport, there is no choice but to use the tail number, but at a non-towered, my tail number isn't going to show up on their screen anyway. For the sake of brevity on a busy day with lots of people on the CTAF, I'd rather folks just look for a white Kitfox.
I learned to fly 50 years ago. I was taught proper radio phraseology and have used it all through my aviation career and taught it as a flight instructor. I never bought into that color thing.
That other guy (Karen) was probably drunk and needed to simply go home and sleep it off.
Nice video, would you mind sharing where you got the stick grips from
You did absolutely nothing wrong and everything right! Also, I’m glad that you continue to ignore the guy. I don’t know if that was somebody working inside the FBO? Either way, the other individual is completely foolish. I don’t complain about people making calls in the pattern. In fact, I like it when people over call. It Helps built awareness. It allows other people to safely enter/exit in the pattern.
Awareness is the key word. We aren't listening to the CTAF for amusement & entertainment.
I monitor CTAF when I'm flying a drone, pilots are pathetic at communication around here, FAA needs to have a chat with that clown
Monitoring the CTAF while flying your drone is a very good thing. Thanks for the comment!
People forget their are non-radio aircraft out there. Keep your eyes on the skies, not on the radio.
I cannot understand your comment. Making radio calls does not mean eyes need to be on the radio. As the poster of this video did, he made his calls while scanning the sky. If you cannot aviate, communicate while watching out for other traffic, you should not be flying.
Also, for safety sake, even if you have a non-electric plane, consider getting a hand held radio & headset for your non radio equipped plane. They are cheap insurance for other aircraft to see you & you them by announcing your position.
Totally agree! My original tailwheel instructor had a J3 Cub with a handheld all secured with the cables run neatly. You could not tell the diffeerence between that and a panel-mounted radio.
Good observation. As you can see, it is easy to watch the sky and communicate simultaneously.
You did ok. Forget his comment
The only thing I’d say you didn’t do was use your tail number….Kitfox 1018R or Kitfox 18R would have been more standard.
The guy was an idiot as well as being a jerk. Not everyone has ADS-B in and out to see traffic, so radio calls are important. Around here you'd only get in trouble for NOT calling the pattern. Hopefully your "friend" does more hanger flying than actual flying!
I don't see a problem with your calls.. I ID as "red white 'n blue skylark" frequently.
That guy and his students are the ones out there wrecking priceless aircraft (taildraggers) due to inadequate training and lack of basic airmanship.
my guess.. non-pilot with a handheld. prolly a you tuber looking for dirt on pilots and is auto-receiving on several freqs looking to be the next YT aviation content hero...
The controller didn’t get any the night before
not a controller, just another pilot itching to get into a midair collision
Did you hear the guys calling it "Emo-kally"?
Im going to go out on a limb and say that dude actually isnt a pilot ........ I have a kitfox in Zephyrhills Im trying to finish. Just picked up a HKS700E for it.
Kid was embarrassing his entire category of flyers, especially when nobody corrected him. He still thinks he was right.
Too big CTAF areas are why pilots don’t listen to their radios. I’m listening to traffic nowhere near me nonstop.
That can definitely be a problem here too. I wish they'd provide more CTAF frequencies so we don't have to listen to traffic from across the state all the time.
@@ParadiseHG I’m up in Alaska and it’s ridiculous. Ole 122.9 is ridiculous.
@@New2Me170B it's the same here. It would be much less of a problem without a lot of the idle chit-chat and people who drone "ahhhh..." or "ummmm..." without being able to spit out what they need to say.
@@aviatorinparadise guys will get in full blown chit chat conversations sucking the air time for thousands of square miles.
Thats a dumb pilot whoeever said that ....should have his license taken away!!! he is reason we have so many accidents!!!! as pilots we always should be risk averse and err on side of caution..and stating where we are and intentions. great job and great video
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate your input.
Gotta tone down that music, dude.
Your calls were fine... that guy is the guy who calls 8 mile straight-in final with aircraft in the pattern- jerk!
If you are the only person at the field(not saying you were), there is absolutely no requirement to call every single turn in pattern. AIM is recommendation only. The problem is CTAF frequencies are shared by multiple airports in the area and could very well mean someone is a busy pattern at another airport is not getting out safety pertinent calls in a much busier pattern because you are stepping over them.
That's why I make my calls brief ond only at the turnpoints in the pattern. KIMM shares the CTAF freq. with several south FL fields and it can be a real problem on busy days, expecially when people at other locations engage in idle chit-chat.
Wow. What a Karen. Lol. I get that the calls get redundant, but I’d certainly rather know where another airplane is in the pattern. Besides, if you’re going to listen to CTAF, be prepared to hear CTAF stuff, and that means regular position reports. The guy complained is probably also the same guy who’d scold someone who didn’t make enough calls to suit him or complain about pilots flying without radios because they’ve got vintage airplanes with no electrical system. Also, I suppose if he wasn’t flying and didn’t want to hear CTAF position reports, he could’ve turned his radio off. You were more gracious about it than I might’ve been. I might’ve reminded him about his volume and power controls.
Other than the crosswind call I thought your calls were great. As far as the dude critiquing you...the only reason to be listening to CTAF is to get the critical information you're communicating. Would defeat logic listening to CTAF, NOT to have pilots broadcasting position
Your last sentence sums it up perfectly.
Radios are not even required at non towered airports. So perhaps the comment was uncalled for, the point was still made that every position being announced on the radio when you are the only one in the pattern ties up the CTAF. Maybe a compromise between necessary calls to avoid other traffic in the pattern or local area and no calls at all can be found? VFR is still see and avoid.
Respectfully, I disagree. You never know when does the other pilot entering the pattern first turn his radio to the CTAF. Flying through Chino KCNO for landing at Corona KAJO, I don't get a hand off from Chino tower until I am very close to the cross-wind leg for left down-wind Corona Rwy 25, and I appreciate hearing position reports from aircraft in the pattern as soon as I turn my radio to CTAF.
@@robinfly7303 I understand what your point is, however even if you are flying with Flight following or on an IFR flight plan, You are supposed to announce yourself well before you enter the pattern on the CTAF. AND if when you announce yourself, and what your intentions are, then the aircraft flying in the pattern will announce where they are in return to coordinate their positions and intentions for landing. How often have other planes also said "Any aircraft in the area report" Which is also not proper radio communications. In our area the CTAF is used by a dozen airports, and it can be tying up the radio when others are trying to report for traffic that is there.
Same thing as announcing clear of the runway when NO ONE is waiting to land or take off.